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help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply
by Brett Russ Nov. 7, 2012

Nov. 7, 2012

Hi, I'm trying to diagnose a home built PC running fine since 2007 but lately starting to act odd. Here are the system specs: Intel Core 2 Duo 1.8GHz cpu Asus P5B Deluxe mobo Nvidia 7900GS graphics card Kingston KHX6400 2x1GB DDR2 memory Sparkle ATX 400W power supply 3x 1TB SATA HDDs 1x SATA DVD-RW $ uname -a Linux spider 3.0.0-25-generic #41-Ubuntu SMP Mon Aug 13 17:58:59 UTC 2012 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux $ cat /etc/*release DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu DISTRIB_RELEASE=11.10 DISTRIB_CODENAME=oneiric DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 11.10" $ uname -a Linux spider 3.0.0-25-generic #41-Ubuntu SMP Mon Aug 13 17:58:59 UTC 2012 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux What recently changed: i) replaced monitor, last one died ii) (carefully) vacuumed the dust from inside. Kept hand on case chassis, didn't touch any PCB/chips, etc. Here are the symptoms: 1) first started seeing BIOS claims of bad CMOS checksum at boot time. Immediately suspected the CMOS battery, replaced it and reset CMOS settings but I continue to see this. This is the one symptom that I can't yet place, unless it's simply a bad replacement battery. 2) next started seeing the monitor fail to wake up after entering power save 3) powering on the PC shows issues: 3a) often the monitor won't wake at boot 3b) the bios often doesn't finish POST, gets stuck at splash screen 3c) bios settings often don't survive across power cycles (possibly related to #1--battery issue?) 3d) bios doesn't always give the affirmative beep (likely same symptom as 3a, 3b) 3e) a cold power on or reset can take several "tries" before the system stays on. I.e. fans will spin up, then spin down, one to three times before staying on. When this happens it's pretty much guaranteed that it won't boot successfully. 4) system will freeze to user input while up. I.e. once I get Linux booted, as long as I disable monitor power save it will stay running for a while, but I observed it stopped responding to KB and mouse input earlier this morning. Here's what I've tried: a) reseated both DIMMs, reproduced issues; tried with just one DIMM, repro'd; tried other DIMM, repro'd b) reseated graphics card, repro'd; removed graphics card (now headless), repro'd problem 3e c) reseated CMOS battery (CR2032), repro'd d) pulled all non-essential cables and internal connections, including power and SATA cables from all drives, repro'd e) updated BIOS to latest version, repro'd Unfortunately I don't have another ATX power supply to try, but was thinking of buying one. I might also try an old PCI video card, but I suspect due to repro (b) above that it's not the cause. Anyone have any other insights or agree it sounds like a bad PS? I still can't explain symptom (1), will probably buy another battery to be sure. Five years seems like an old PC, but I'm not a gamer so this suits me fine. Thanks, Brett

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Next meeting on the 14th?
by Tim Keller Nov. 1, 2012

Nov. 1, 2012

Hey Gang, Firstly, I presume that the next meeting is going to be on the 14th? Secondly, do we have a topic? Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

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Free hardware: Internal IDE CD drives
by joel d Oct. 26, 2012

Oct. 26, 2012

Could anyone use some internal CD drives? Just found a box full of them. They are "bare" IDE CD readers with no cables, drivers or manuals. Will gladly bring as many as people want to the next meeting. Don't be shy, I probably have 30 of them, and all are guaranteed to be worth every penny of free! Please kindly reply to me via e-mail directly if interested (to not clog up the WLUG e-mail). Thank you, Joel joelgroup(a)gmail.com

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Monitoring for a network
by Eric Martin Oct. 24, 2012

Oct. 24, 2012

I'm trying to get a better handle on what's happening on my network at work. I'm currently using Nagios to monitor the big things (Server health, switch health, etc), but I'd like more granular statistics (how much data is coming and going, are any links saturated, etc). A quick glance shows that MRTG, Cricket, and RRD are good things to start playing with. I'm staring to play around with MRTG, but I'm hearing rumors of scalability issues and I don't want to get deep into MRTG if I should be putting resources elsewhere. A quick sketch of the network is a few internet connections, our router, and a few switches for networking along with a few switches for VoIP as well as our PBX. I don't want to monitor every port all the time, I instead want to monitor the uplinks of the switches to have a good idea, and look at the switch if something looks awry. My question to the group is, what do you use / recommend, and do you have anything that sticks out in your head about any of these packages (good or bad)? Thanks in advance, -- Eric Martin

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I presume we're meeting the 10th of Oct?
by Tim Keller Oct. 10, 2012

Oct. 10, 2012

Hey Gang! I presume we're having a meeting on the 10th? Does anybody have a topic/idea? Thanks, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

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Possible problem with demo tomorrow...
by Tim Keller Oct. 9, 2012

Oct. 9, 2012

There's that old adage, when it rains it pours... Work critical stuff has made it hard for me to focus on getting the demo to work completely. I can do two things... 1. I can do my presentation without the demo. 2. I can do my presentation next month, giving me time to get the demo working right, etc. What do you guys want me to do? Thanks, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

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Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply
by joel d Oct. 9, 2012

Oct. 9, 2012

> From: Brett Russ <bruss(a)alum.wpi.edu> > Subject: Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply > To: Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org> > Message-ID: > <CAGcHgFN4odSRHmS=jjYuvEDy1myRMOgKEYxy0bWu9e4-3V9i7A(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 7:57 AM, Brett Russ <bruss(a)alum.wpi.edu> wrote: >> On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: >>> I agree that the power supply is suspect. You can measure the voltage >> >>> Alternatively, it may be easier to just try a replacement. >> >> I have a new one on the way. I'll reply here with the results. > > Well, brand new power supply and the system behaves the same > problematic way as before. > > So next try is the memory, as another list reply suggested. I've had > memtest86 running against both DIMMs for 47+ hours and counting, 70 > total passes so far, and 0 errors. Remember I'd already tried > removing first one DIMM, then the other, and the problem repro'd > either way. So by these measures it'd seem the memory is OK? I know > some mem problems take days to show up so I'll just leave this running > for a couple more days anyway. > > Not much more I can do here, as I've seen repros with most everything > else unplugged so I'm now thinking it must be the motherboard. > Perhaps I will try reseating the CPU--haven't done that yet. > > Recall the system is having trouble POST'ing: it hangs at various > points before BIOS POST completes, i.e. I don't get a confirming > 'beep' at end of POST and in some cases the monitor won't wake, other > cases the BIOS splash screen stays splashed, etc. The full original > email is here: > http://mail.wlug.org/pipermail/wlug/2012-September/008059.html > > Anyway, if anyone has other ideas here I'd welcome them. > > Thanks again, > Brett > Hi Brett, You sound pretty convinced this is a PC hardware problem. I think I missed the earlier discussion, but how exactly do you know this is hardware at fault (vs anything not hardware at fault) and how certain are you? Have you tried running a "bootable operating system" via a CD or DVD drive as a diagnostic step (will it boot Ubuntu or another from the optical drive)? If CD/DVD boot is out, there are thumb drive bootable images also. I would start here and rule out everything that is not hardware. As a test, if a different O.S. than Ubuntu 11.10, runs well (except slower) from an optical drive, your hardware is likely fine (and instead have an Ubuntu 11 or app or driver problem). Step only takes a few minutes and is very telling (and well worth it IMHO). This step will likely tell you if it is hardware vs everything else. So if you can assure yourself it is hardware 100% ... All the PC hardware I have worked on in the past years is pretty much self diagnosing/reporting. In this case, your job if you choose to accept it, is to "read and decipher what the motherboard is telling you at boot up". To speak the language of your motherboard, you need to check for any of the following information: External to case, Rear facing LEDs (often have many and are multi-colored) On motherboard LEDs, viewable only inside Beep tones heard at boot up Error or other messages displayed quickly at bootup You need to read the "diagnostics" page of your model's specific PC or motherboard vendor's manual for this specific PC/motherboard to decipher what it is seeing at bootup (based upon lights/beeps/LEDS/etc). Sounds like: You either have two bad power supplies, or this is not the problem. You could have bad memory DIMM(s) that do pass MemTest86 (these test help, but I have seen them pass on bad chips it is a bit of a long shot though). You have changed the motherboard battery and flashed the latest BIOS. Don't rule out a new BIOS being a problem (glitch in install or wrong one or BIOS version problem) You still have a problem that could be hardware or not. You could have an Ubuntu 11 playing well with your motherboard, thus a test of another OS and version... If it was my PC I would next rule out the following in this order: Test and work on whatever the motherboard manufacturer is telling you via lights/beeps/LEDs/boot messages. Ubuntu V11.10, not because I don't like it but trying something else for 15 minutes could tell you something. The current version of CMOS you flashed to the motherboard

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Announce: WLUG Meeting Wed 10/10 7PM: OpenStack
by Chuck Anderson Oct. 9, 2012

Oct. 9, 2012

Hi folks, The next Worcester Linux Users' Group (WLUG) monthly meeting will be held on Wednesday, October 10, at 7PM. The location will be WPI Higgins Labs, room 230 (computer lab). Wednesday, October 10, 7:00 - 9:00 PM WPI Higgins Labs, room 230 (computer lab) WLUG member Tim Keller will be giving a presentation on OpenStack, open source software for building private and public clouds. Afterwards, we will go out for pizza and continue our discussions. See you there, Chuck President, Worcester Linux Users' Group http://www.wlug.org/

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Re: [Wlug] Wlug Digest, Vol 107, Issue 13
by Karl Lind Oct. 1, 2012

Oct. 1, 2012

Hi Brett, First off, CMOS checksum errors during boot refer to MEMORY not the BIOS. Also almost all your symptoms point to a possible memory issue. Do Chuck's stuff to verify that you don't have a power drain that's causing a memory issue. Get a Memory Test utility and find out which DIMM is causing the problem. Carefully remove the DIMM and using a #2 pencil eraser, clean the contacts and replace the DIMM (The rubber removes oxidation that prevents contact) and don't forget to keep grounded! (You, not the DIMM). Cheers Karl On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:00 PM, <wlug-request(a)mail.wlug.org> wrote: > Send Wlug mailing list submissions to > wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > wlug-request(a)mail.wlug.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > wlug-owner(a)mail.wlug.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Wlug digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply (Brett Russ) > 2. Re: help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply > (Chuck Anderson) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 14:32:05 -0400 > From: Brett Russ <bruss(a)alum.wpi.edu> > Subject: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply > To: Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org> > Message-ID: > <CAGcHgFNRd2jLrywD977a0jZChqEREnNBt529abY0= > fh2OU5FAA(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi, > > I'm trying to diagnose a home built PC running fine since 2007 but lately > starting to act odd. Here are the system specs: > Intel Core 2 Duo 1.8GHz cpu > Asus P5B Deluxe mobo > Nvidia 7900GS graphics card > Kingston KHX6400 2x1GB DDR2 memory > Sparkle ATX 400W power supply > 3x 1TB SATA HDDs > 1x SATA DVD-RW > > $ uname -a > Linux spider 3.0.0-25-generic #41-Ubuntu SMP Mon Aug 13 17:58:59 UTC 2012 > x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux > > $ cat /etc/*release > DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu > DISTRIB_RELEASE=11.10 > DISTRIB_CODENAME=oneiric > DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 11.10" > > $ uname -a > Linux spider 3.0.0-25-generic #41-Ubuntu SMP Mon Aug 13 17:58:59 UTC 2012 > x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux > > > What recently changed: > > i) replaced monitor, last one died > > ii) (carefully) vacuumed the dust from inside. Kept hand on case chassis, > didn't touch any PCB/chips, etc. > > > Here are the symptoms: > > 1) first started seeing BIOS claims of bad CMOS checksum at boot time. > Immediately suspected the CMOS battery, replaced it and reset CMOS settings > but I continue to see this. This is the one symptom that I can't yet > place, unless it's simply a bad replacement battery. > > 2) next started seeing the monitor fail to wake up after entering power > save > > 3) powering on the PC shows issues: > > 3a) often the monitor won't wake at boot > > 3b) the bios often doesn't finish POST, gets stuck at splash screen > > 3c) bios settings often don't survive across power cycles (possibly related > to #1--battery issue?) > > 3d) bios doesn't always give the affirmative beep (likely same symptom as > 3a, 3b) > > 3e) a cold power on or reset can take several "tries" before the system > stays on. I.e. fans will spin up, then spin down, one to three times > before staying on. When this happens it's pretty much guaranteed that it > won't boot successfully. > > 4) system will freeze to user input while up. I.e. once I get Linux > booted, as long as I disable monitor power save it will stay running for a > while, but I observed it stopped responding to KB and mouse input earlier > this morning. > > > Here's what I've tried: > > a) reseated both DIMMs, reproduced issues; tried with just one DIMM, > repro'd; tried other DIMM, repro'd > > b) reseated graphics card, repro'd; removed graphics card (now headless), > repro'd problem 3e > > c) reseated CMOS battery (CR2032), repro'd > > d) pulled all non-essential cables and internal connections, including > power and SATA cables from all drives, repro'd > > e) updated BIOS to latest version, repro'd > > > Unfortunately I don't have another ATX power supply to try, but was > thinking of buying one. I might also try an old PCI video card, but I > suspect due to repro (b) above that it's not the cause. > > Anyone have any other insights or agree it sounds like a bad PS? I still > can't explain symptom (1), will probably buy another battery to be sure. > Five years seems like an old PC, but I'm not a gamer so this suits me fine. > > > Thanks, > Brett > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://mail.wlug.org/pipermail/wlug/attachments/20120929/8959d06a/attachmen… > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 18:19:47 -0400 > From: Chuck Anderson <cra(a)WPI.EDU> > Subject: Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply > To: Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org> > Message-ID: <20120929221947.GH12327(a)angus.ind.WPI.EDU> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 02:32:05PM -0400, Brett Russ wrote: > > Sparkle ATX 400W power supply > > Anyone have any other insights or agree it sounds like a bad PS? I still > > can't explain symptom (1), will probably buy another battery to be sure. > > Five years seems like an old PC, but I'm not a gamer so this suits me > fine. > > I agree that the power supply is suspect. You can measure the voltage > on a spare power supply hard drive connector, there should be 12v from > black to yellow, and 5v from black to red. If that checks out, you > should measure from the motherboard ATX connector as some of the other > voltages may be out of spec. You can find the standard ATX pinouts > and voltages online. Finally, you can test with the power supply > completely disconnected from the PC. Again, you can find instructions > online for how to do that, as it requires a jumper wire for the power > supply to power on. > > Alternatively, it may be easier to just try a replacement. > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > End of Wlug Digest, Vol 107, Issue 13 > ************************************* >

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Test needed on declared-ill Modem. Who has a lab?
by E Johnson Sept. 28, 2012

Sept. 28, 2012

Umm. Non-happy camper. ISP things have changed here, without me being informed. Recently (2 days ago) my modem started rebooting every little while. Zillions of T3 & T4 timouts in the modem log, Signal lavels were perfect when it was online. I own this thing, a Motorola SB6120 purchased late June 2010. It has not been abused. I am in Woosta & we all know the ISP available here. 2 techs showed up mid-morning, to diagnose and fix this issue. One guy stood there watching; the other guy "did stuff." They checked the signal levels on incoming line from the box connected to the pole our back, and declared my moden Dying. They talked to each other (not me) & seemed to think I was Granny-in-a-Box, until they let me say more than one sentence. These guys also confessed that since July 202, Ch4rter does not "allow" customers to own/run their own modems. Their consolation prize is that they don't charge modem rental fees any more. (it's not on the bill, anyway, FWIW). They mumbled some other mumbo jumbo and fled 5 seconds after they learned I have my own router too, & didn't care if the modem and router were yet in communication. They just said "better reboot" and they "no longer" service "wireless" --which I am not running except when certain visitors appear. I think they meant they don't diagnose routers, which has always been the policy, and which is fine. Internal LAN issues aren't their problem. So now I have a modem which may or may not be sick, but no way to test it to make sure. Is there anyone here who can take a look at this thing & test to see if it's Really Dying, or if Ch4rter deaded it with their latest firmware revision of their firmware & policy change in July 2012? An interesting meeting theme sometime might be how to get the Verizon FIOS in Worcester. Several years ago I watched Verizon trucks & Verizon moles installing their fiber optics in manholes all over town. Ch4rter is running on Verizon's infrastructure. Ch4rter internet has been working better since then, but we're still locked out of the option to use verizon. Is this a topic of interest to anyone? If so, I'll lead the discussion and even buy the Pizz4. To me, this is a Large Pizza problem. Another interesting but probably futile discussion might center around why we have suddenly been deprived of the ability to watch the behavior and effectiveness of our modems, which serve internet coming from our ISP.. I was not informed of this -- was anyone who is just a 'regular' customer? Meanwhile, if anyone has a test lab or whatever, where they can test my declared-dead modem, please let me know. Otherwise it's probably a giveaway, or another piece of Landfill Fodder. I can bring to a meeting & can wait for results. Thanks & happy pizzaz, Liz J

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