- WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

27" Monitor for sale
by James Gray 02 May '06

02 May '06

A coworker of mine is selling a 27" monitor that he is no longer using. Contact me if you are interested and I'll get you his email. Here is his ad: Gateway Destination 27" Monitor - I'm selling a black Gateway Destination 27" monitor. Some of you may have seen the ads Dell has now for the XPS plasma screens, this is a similar concept that Gateway had years ago. This monitor retailed for $400. This monitor's maximum resolution is 800X600 at 65 hertz. It has a VGA cable input and RCA audio inputs for the mounted speakers on the sides. There are two modes, "PC" and "TV" that allow you to adjust the color settings seperately when you're watching television as opposed to using it with your PC. This monitor worked perfectly for me as my television. I used a computer as the center of my multimedia system with a TV tuner card and I was not disappointed with the monitor at all. The monitor takes a standard PC power cord, and I will include one with the monitor. I can also include a 30 foot VGA cable $25 more. If you are running this monitor from a computer with a DVD player, you will be astonished at the quality difference because this monitor operates at 800X600 resolution instead of a standard TV resolution of 484X280. That's about *twice* the clarity! The cheapest 27" TV at Best Buy is $197. This is twice the TV for less than twice the price! Price: $225 - negotiable

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meeting next week?
by Eric Stein 27 Apr '06

27 Apr '06

Hi all, I'm only writing to ask whether or not there will be a meeting held on the 3rd and if we have a topic. Thanks. -- Eric Stein WPI CS 2009 Treasurer, Student Pugwash

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Webcast meetings?
by Tim Keller 27 Apr '06

27 Apr '06

Hey Everybody, I've got a pie in the sky question. My parental duties now proclude me from attending the Wednesday night WLUG meetings. Since we hold the meetings in the "Media room" is there any chance we could make them available live and/or a podcast? Thanks, Tim. -- I am leary of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

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Knoppix 5 dvd
by Mike Leo 27 Apr '06

27 Apr '06

I got ahold of the knoppix 5 dvd and there was talk about people wanting it at the last meeting.... if anyone wants a copy, let me know and I'll burn one for you. >From what i can see, it is a bootable dvd, but still in German, not english, but I did not explore to much into it. thanks mike

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Mail servers, Comcast, and spam
by Andy Stewart 27 Apr '06

27 Apr '06

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 HI gang, In my town, I've noticed that other town employees with whom I send email are unable to send return email to me. This started happening about a month ago. My ISP is Comcast. This description was sent to me by a town employee: o In an attempt to limit the amount of SPAM on the Comcast Internet system, Comcast does not allow external email servers to send mail to Comcast email accounts where the sending email server's MX records do not match. o Because the TOWN mail server is behind our firewall our incoming mail IP address is different from our sending mail IP address. In other words our MX records do not match consequently Comcast blocks our mail from being sent to Comcast email addresses. Basic questions: - - What is an MX record? - - Is it normal for the mail server to be behind the firewall? I thought perhaps it would be either exposed to the net or on the DMZ. I am wondering if there is some misconfiguration or perhaps a different configuration that could be used to alleviate this problem. I have no expertise running a mail server and thought somebody on this list might be able to help. Thanks! Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFETaM0Hl0iXDssISsRAqzYAKCIypfN3gf2xKOxc3QGaaeJdfvjxQCdHFTZ 2HNpPjjH/PvR9p2VdTcHzrA= =nnna -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[Fwd: Job opportunity]
by Andy Stewart 26 Apr '06

26 Apr '06

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 If you have interest in this job opportunity, please contact the recruiter directly. ================================================================ - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Job opportunity Date: 26 Apr 2006 14:35:08 -0400 From: Jennifer Hillner <jhillner(a)hollisterinc.com> To: andystewart(a)comcast.net Hi Andy, I came across your user group online and I was hoping to network with you. I have a job opportunity for a Java Swing developer who is also big into Linux and opensource technologies. It is for a great pharmaceutical company in Cambridge. If you know of anyone who would be interested in hearing about this or other opportunities, please feel free to pass this along as we have an excellent referral program. I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks, Jenn *Software Developer within Scientific Web Application group* Required 1-3 years Java Swing development, new grads will be considered Linux experience Experience with any open source technologies Desired: MySQL or Oracle DB experience This is an excellent opportunity to join a leading pharmaceutical company. This developer will be responsible for java swing development of one of their main scientific web applications. This person will be under the mentorship of a senior level developer so this is a great learning opportunity. 75% of this position is development and the other 25% is general Linux administration and general database and programming problem solving. Sincerely, Jennifer Hillner Senior Recruiter/Technology Hollister Associates, Inc. 75 State Street, 9th Floor Boston, MA 02109 jhillner(a)hollisterstaff.com <mailto:jhillner@hollisterstaff.com> (T) 617.654.0257 (F) 617.695-3807 Visit us at www.HollisterStaff.com <http://www.hollisterstaff.com/> The information contained in this e-mail may be confidential and is intended solely for the use of the named addressee. Access, copying or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein by any other person is not authorized. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately by returning the e-mail to the originator. Confidential, unpublished property of Hollister Associates, Inc. Do not duplicate or distribute Use and distribution limited solely to authorized personnel. (© Copyright 2005 (Hollister Associates, Inc.) - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFET+8UHl0iXDssISsRAoL2AJ92oDSNCHDYCtrFeAd6gEmkfIrA/QCfXXny 8b9dOemO3xFRn2q1W6/WGK0= =rYiQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Ubuntu vs Kubuntu
by Mike 21 Apr '06

21 Apr '06

At the last meeting someone mentioned some kind of fallout between Ubuntu and Kubuntu. I missed most the details and was wondering if anyone had a link to an article that explains this. I have been searching, but Google isn't playing nice today. Thanks, Mike -- Emacs would be a far better OS if it shipped with a halfway-decent text editor. --Anonymous

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Linux Friendly Wireless Handhelds
by Andy Stewart 20 Apr '06

20 Apr '06

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 HI Everybody, I'm looking for a handheld device which can synchronize with Linux and with Outlook (for work). I'd like the synchronization to be wireless. I don't much care if it is a smartphone or a PDA - the calendar application is the most important for my needs. Devices that seem to come close are BlackBerry and Palm Treo. I'm still researching this topic, so there may be others. Do you use such a device? Thanks! Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFERuI0Hl0iXDssISsRAjJaAJ9pGc1r/7eXdLU87x2mdAI1ISSCnwCfZWGu MIG//w8z+/RMW21lyYdaP8E= =CZ/Y -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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linux courses
by Mike Leo 19 Apr '06

19 Apr '06

I have taken RH and other week long certification programs and am certified in many things. however, the classes themselves are pretty weak, usually only covering RH and only what's in the RH book, superficially at best. I have read tons of materials on linux and continually do so all the time. But does anyone know of a good linux course out there anywhere, outside of the training mills like New Horizons, or even RH? College level course's seem to be the best choice so far, but I have not found one yet, nor do I want to spend the time if it is not a mature syllabus. I have been "on" linux for 3 years now, and I am beyond the basic's but not quite into kernel development yet, so a somewhere in between class is what I am hoping for. Thanks in advance, Mike

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How fast is your CD burner with Linux ?
by Andy Stewart 15 Apr '06

15 Apr '06

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 HI everybody, I asked this question at the most recent WLUG meeting. I've noticed that my CD burner (according to K3B) averages about 24X, even though it is advertised as a 48X CD burner. Is this to be expected, or do I have a cheap(er) drive that can't sustain the data rate? It is an IDE/ATAPI drive (NEC3550). It takes approx. 4 minutes for me to burn a 700MB CD (including some fiddling and diddling about calibrating power, fixating, etc). I use Memorex CD-R media (52X, 700MB, 80 min). I'm curious about your CD buring experiences, especially if they are faster than mine. I'd like to know what drive you have, the media you use, and most importantly, how did you determine your drive speed? Thanks, Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEQDWxHl0iXDssISsRAleKAJ9te/Y/JJJilRrsM7l3iHSwO3H9qwCfanO+ y6iI3UzEL8uI6wnYM8yfWYU= =lp+Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Raffle prize - who won the Gagne book ?
by Andy Stewart 13 Apr '06

13 Apr '06

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 HI everybody, I don't remember who won the book "Moving to Linux - Kiss the Blue Screen of Death Goodbye" by Marcel Gagne. The book originally came with a CD which I had removed. The winner didn't get the CD because I couldn't find it last night. I have found the CD and would like to give it to the raffle winner. Whomever that may be, please send me an email. Thanks! Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEPso4Hl0iXDssISsRAqFoAJ41GaOvmT8CVBTyQc44eWOFJUxQSACfTDDj gOsto+WlX+f1IjV6cfq7hTY= =P1BC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Meeting topic
by Mike Leo 13 Apr '06

13 Apr '06

Not a technical one, but I have been coming to meetings for maybe a year now, and have not had a chance to introduce myself, and more importantly, haven't found out who you all are. With no topic tonight, can we just have an re-introduction of the members so we know who these emails are coming from? thanks

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Tonight's meeting
by rich＠richardklein.org 12 Apr '06

12 Apr '06

I've never been to a WLUG meeting before. It's okay for a member of the general public to just show up, right? On a different note, I was trying to set up the Cyrus mail server under Suse 9.2 and have been having a hell of a time with it. I set it aside about 2 weeks ago and haven't gotten back to it. If I bring the PC with me, would anyone be able and willing to help me configure Cyrus properly (or maybe the problem's with PAM - I don't know)? I suppose I could set it up at home for someone to access via VNC or something, too. Thanks, -- Rich

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Recycling centers
by John Stoffel 12 Apr '06

12 Apr '06

Anyone have a good suggestion for a place to recycle junk computers cheaply. I've got a pile of dead equipment starting to fill my garage and now that it's spring, it's time to get rid of it all. Most of it actually works, it's just all P133 or PIIs and they're not worth the effort to keep running any more. Plus I've got some work stuff to get rid of too, monitors and such. John

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Meeting Wed Apr 12 7PM WPI
by Andy Stewart 11 Apr '06

11 Apr '06

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 HI Everybody, Our WLUG meeting will be on Wednesday, April 12 at 7:00 PM in "the usual place" (Access Grid Room, WPI campus, Worcester, MA USA). I hope a few people will be there who attended Linux Expo in Boston - I'm curious to hear about it, and I hope others are as well. Bring your Linux questions - you can ask the group and I'm sure somebody will have an answer. All Linux related topics are fair game at this meeting! I'll bring a few items for raffle (and others might also...). We'll adjourn to the Tech Pizza restaurant after the meeting. See ya soon, Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEPB2THl0iXDssISsRAsqBAJ4vvwT1eRhB7/f/SZiMqNENj+K42gCbBJyF sTKbC8tnSRJ6f7hGgsCz7ck= =982L -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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network bandwidth monitor
by Mike Leo 10 Apr '06

10 Apr '06

A few meetings ago, someone had a network bandwidth monitor...anyone remember what it was? it was not nload or iftop, but something else that i can't think of! can you remember?

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Re: [Wlug] Wlug Digest, Vol 30, Issue 1
by David Hardy 09 Apr '06

09 Apr '06

> > I think the idea about PDAs is cool, and would also be interested in > hearing about experiences with multimedia, especially downloaded music > files. I'm trying to help one of my brothers with his new home-built Fedora > Core Four box; he's loving it so fah but having a spot of frustration with > getting music files humming. And also, IMHO, security is always a good area to look at as we all are forced to deal with it on a daily, if not hourly, basis now. Dave Hardy Today's Topics: > > 1. Upcoming meeting agenda (or lack thereof) (Andy Stewart) > 2. Re: Upcoming meeting agenda (or lack thereof) (Adam Keck) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 12:42:08 -0400 > From: Andy Stewart <andystewart(a)comcast.net> > Subject: [Wlug] Upcoming meeting agenda (or lack thereof) > To: Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org> > Message-ID: <4437E7E0.6040004(a)comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > HI Everybody, > > We have a meeting coming up soon, but so far, there is neither a speaker > nor a topic for the meeting. If anybody has any last minute ideas, > please speak up! We've had a couple of excellent meetings recently, and > I'm hopeful that we can keep the ball rolling. > > Thanks! > > Andy > > - -- > Andy Stewart, Founder > Worcester Linux Users' Group > Worcester, MA, USA > http://www.wlug.org > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFEN+fgHl0iXDssISsRAiAiAJ0T0GXOGldn8iCOeBedVQIk2cuJDgCdEecw > /xFC7tbM2qUayVWs57ffD9g= > =Eyqp > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 23:17:17 -0400 > From: Adam Keck <ghostis(a)mac.com> > Subject: Re: [Wlug] Upcoming meeting agenda (or lack thereof) > To: Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org> > Message-ID: <200604082317.17449.ghostis(a)mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello All, > > Would it be possible for someone to present the state-of-the-art > of Linux on > PDAs? > > - Adam > > > On Saturday 08 April 2006 12:42, Andy Stewart wrote: > > > > HI Everybody, > > > > We have a meeting coming up soon, but so far, there is neither a speaker > > nor a topic for the meeting. If anybody has any last minute ideas, > > please speak up! We've had a couple of excellent meetings recently, and > > I'm hopeful that we can keep the ball rolling. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Andy > > > > -- > > Andy Stewart, Founder > > Worcester Linux Users' Group > > Worcester, MA, USA > > http://www.wlug.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wlug mailing list > > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > End of Wlug Digest, Vol 30, Issue 1 > *********************************** >

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Upcoming meeting agenda (or lack thereof)
by Andy Stewart 09 Apr '06

09 Apr '06

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 HI Everybody, We have a meeting coming up soon, but so far, there is neither a speaker nor a topic for the meeting. If anybody has any last minute ideas, please speak up! We've had a couple of excellent meetings recently, and I'm hopeful that we can keep the ball rolling. Thanks! Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEN+fgHl0iXDssISsRAiAiAJ0T0GXOGldn8iCOeBedVQIk2cuJDgCdEecw /xFC7tbM2qUayVWs57ffD9g= =Eyqp -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Sad news...
by Andy Stewart 22 Mar '06

22 Mar '06

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Doug Waud passed away peacefully yesterday evening at his home, with his family and relatives in attendance. Doug had been an active member of WLUG for the last several years. For those who don't get the Worcester Telegram, I thought I would include information on funeral arrangements: Calling hours Wednesday (tomorrow) from 7-9 PM and Thursday (3/23/06) from 2-4 PM & 7-9 PM, at Britton's Funeral Home, 648 Main Street, Shrewsbury, MA, 508-845-6226 The funeral will be this Friday (3/24/06) at 11:00 AM, at the First Congregational Church of Shrewsbury, 19 Church Road (on the common at the intersection of Main St. and Rt. 140) - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEIJnHHl0iXDssISsRAhCfAJ9Z0oI9HDGvN4LbwHviJHfiUqv/JgCeMiy+ wTJPN7brZ/mpGnGLqg12p3Y= =XwDm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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maxing out the cpu
by Mike Leo 17 Mar '06

17 Mar '06

2 meetings ago, someone was trying to push the cpu of Andy's homemade router to 100% using a for/loop of some sort....can someone remind me of the syntax of that? while true; do; done or something similar? thanks

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FreeBSD snd_emu10k1 issues
by TheLobster 17 Mar '06

17 Mar '06

Hey, I currently have FreeBSD 6.1 installed. I have a sound blaster audiology 2 and in order to use it on previous linux and freebsd installs I needed to load snd_emu10k1 into the kernel. When i run "kldload snd_emu10k1" as root, the computer completely freezes up. Gnome doesn't respond, no keyboard responce (Alt+Backspace or Ctrl+alt+F1) and everything seams to lockup. Any suggestions on how to fix this? Bob -- --------------- Bob Breznak 908 672 2841 robert.breznak(a)gmail.com IIsAGeek.Com Crimson Key LnL Webmaster Masque Webmaster TechNews Webmaster BiLaGa Webmaster Guerrilla Improv SCP Rep Guerrilla Improv Webmaster

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REMINDER: Upcoming meeting Wed Mar 15 7:00 PM
by Andy Stewart 13 Mar '06

13 Mar '06

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 HI Everybody, Its that time again for a WLUG meeting! At this month's meeting, WLUG member Frank Sweetser will be presenting "Wireless Networking Security". Frank will be doing a quick overview of some of the major security related issues in setting up a wireless network, the major vulnerabilities (WEP weaknesses in particular), and ways to close up the holes. He will also include a brief demo of Back Track, a bootable linux CD that includes numerous security related tools, and use it crack a WEP key. Frank is a Network Engineer at WPI, where his duties include Linux administration and the care and feeding of the campus wireless network. I'll bring a book for the no cost raffle: The Official Samba-3 HOWTO and Reference Manual 2nd Edition ISBN: 0-13-188222-8 Published by Prentice Hall After the meeting, we'll go out to the Tech Pizza restaurant to enjoy pizza, soda, and conversation on a variety of topics (including Linux!). See ya at the meeting! Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEFOlsHl0iXDssISsRAretAJ4v2SVLPuKOredGZ/89Me7eTdDgfwCfcjNT jIu8JKcO5IBeih8LoAA76Sg= =aN9b -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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problems with smb export on external usb drive
by Jim Dibb 08 Mar '06

08 Mar '06

I had a drive with an ext3 filesystem in an old p2 running RH8 storing my mp3 files. I moved the drive into a USB enclosure attached to a laptop running FC4. The laptop mounted the fs on /media/media pretty much automatically. The problem is I can't export the /media/media FS with samba to mount on a windows host. I can export /media, and the xp box can see /media/cdrecorder, but /media/media is invisible. I have the following in various config files: from mount: automount(pid2427) on /net type autofs (rw,fd=4,pgrp=2427,minproto=2,maxproto=4) /dev/sda1 on /media/media type ext3 (rw,nosuid,nodev,_netdev,user=jim) in /etc/fstab: /dev/sda1 /media/media ext3 pamconsole,exec,noauto,managed 0 0 /dev/hdc /media/cdrecorder auto pamconsole,exec,noauto,managed 0 0 ls: [root@linuxlaptop /]# ls -al /media total 32 drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Mar 5 21:32 . drwxr-xr-x 27 root root 4096 Mar 5 11:13 .. drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Mar 5 11:14 cdrecorder drwxrwxrwx 247 root root 8192 Mar 1 09:29 media in smb.conf: ( I did have /media/media) [media] path = /media writeable = yes browseable = yes valid users = jim in /var/logs/samba/ (when path above was /media/media) [2006/02/28 21:03:28, 0] smbd/service.c:make_connection_snum(615) '/media/media' does not exist or is not a directory, when connecting to [media] Since I have a copy of the files on my xp box now, I was thinking of destroying the fs and recreating it, then putting all the data back. I just find it very strange that with the above smb.conf, I can mount /media as media on my xp box and I can see the cdrecorder directory but I can't see the media directory. Any advice on what might be wrong? Thanks.

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Adding repositories?
by Bill Mills-Curran 08 Mar '06

08 Mar '06

I've added a new repository (or two) to my yum config, and I'm feeling a bit exposed. I wonder what other WLUG members do about additional repositories. In an effort to support vlc, I had added the livna repository, and when that stopped working (after recent fedora updates), I found that switching from livna to dries helped. Now I notice that there are quite a few packages from dries that will update fedora packages. So, I'm feeling a bit worried. Does anyone have a sense of how much these repositories should be trusted? TIA, Bill

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Bluetooth hardware recomendations
by Karl Hiramoto 08 Mar '06

08 Mar '06

I need a blue tooth interface for my PC, and wondering if anyone has any brands, or hardware chip sets to recommend. I will probably buy a USB or PCMCIA interface. Buying something USB though would allow me to use it in both my desktop and laptop, where only my laptop has PCMCIA. Bluetooth devices i want to hook too, claims it is something like rs-232 serial output over bluetooth, but i gota figure that out. After that i may try with a digicam or mobile phone. -- --- Karl Hiramoto <karl(a)hiramoto.org> http://karl.hiramoto.org/ Yahoo_IM = karl_hiramoto GTalk=karl.hiramoto(a)gmail.com ------

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