- WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

Re: [Wlug] comparison of virtualization technologies
by Mike Leo 20 Aug '07

20 Aug '07

I wasn't at the meeting, but anytime virtualization I have to mention virtualbox.com....works better than VMWare Workstation plus its free! ----- Original Message ---- From: Chuck Anderson <cra(a)WPI.EDU> To: wlug(a)wlug.org Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 7:54:43 PM Subject: [Wlug] comparison of virtualization technologies Here are the links to the virtualization technology comparison we talked about at the meeting: http://virt.kernelnewbies.org/TechComparison http://virt.kernelnewbies.org/HypervisorVsLinuxBased _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Sysstat -> Graph?
by Adam Keck 20 Aug '07

20 Aug '07

Hello All, What are your favorite sysstat graphing tools? I run sysstat on almost everything, but also have orca for Linux collecting data from several servers for graphing. I am wondering if I can make do with only sysstat. -Adam

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comparison of virtualization technologies
by Chuck Anderson 17 Aug '07

17 Aug '07

Here are the links to the virtualization technology comparison we talked about at the meeting: http://virt.kernelnewbies.org/TechComparison http://virt.kernelnewbies.org/HypervisorVsLinuxBased

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Awesome article about Windows v. Linux in the marketplace
by Eric Martin 17 Aug '07

17 Aug '07

I found this on either digg or slashdot. It's a really good article and I agree with most of it. People won't even consider GNU/Linux while they can still get a copy of XP for free from a buddy. That's why I tell people that I won't support their pirating of software; and pitch FOSS at every turn to them. http://tlug.jp/articles/Windows_Is_Free Give it a read, it might spur some good conversations tonight.

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REMINDER: WLUG meeting coming up
by Andy Stewart 16 Aug '07

16 Aug '07

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 HI Everybody, Its that time again for a WLUG meeting: Thursday, August 16th 7:00 PM Access Grid Room WPI Campus Worcester, MA USA See ya there! Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group (http://www.wlug.org) Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group (http://linux.meetup.com/393) Amateur Radio: KB1OIQ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGwn8kHl0iXDssISsRAikMAJ9zfo16xjYwhPIRJFOIr2D0raS23ACcDEmA D3w9ynOUYfEUFrgymuELv90= =Jnxo -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Linux meta-questions - platform choice
by Adam Keck 10 Aug '07

10 Aug '07

Hello All, I have some "meta-Linux" questions regarding platform choice. I am wondering if anyone knows of any research, papers, or other work that has been done on the topic. Given two major types of IT infrastructure: - Heterogeneous, where each application/service uses the platform to which it is best suited. - Homogeneous, where one bends a particular platform to fit every edge case. where the platform can be anything from and OS to a language to an application stack. o Under what general conditions is one infrastructure type more efficient than the other? o What other types of infrastructure are there? o More generally, how does one compare infrastructures in a rigorous manner? - How does one rigorously define "efficient" when comparing concepts like infrastructures? - What other metrics, besides "efficiency" (however defined) may be useful in comparing infrastructures? Does anyone know of any work where this topic has been abstracted and analyzed mathematically? Or of any trade papers where this question has been looked at in practice? So far, I found the following paper via Google: http://uic.edu/cba/cba-depts/ids/IDSNewsFiles/JGITM_Evaristopaper.pdf that seems to be on the topic and some hits on arxiv that appear related but not specifically on the topic. This relates to Linux in that convincing an organization to switch entirely over to Linux seems to be prohibitively hard in practice, but if one can show that the heterogeneous case above can be more efficient, then one can make the case for using Linux where it fits best. Thanks for any info/opinions/personal experiences! -Adam

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Anybody want a really cheap computer?
by Andy Stewart 06 Aug '07

06 Aug '07

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 HI everybody, Check this link: http://www.dataevolution.com/dectop%20info%202.htm This company bought the assets to the AMD PIC (personal internet computer). They're selling it for $99, or three for $299. Yes, it runs Linux. Here is one person's experience: http://jsco.org/dectop/ I wonder if this machine would make a good LTSP thin client...hummmmm. Perhaps a topic for a future WLUG meeting? See ya later, Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group (http://www.wlug.org) Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group (http://linux.meetup.com/393) Amateur Radio: KB1OIQ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGqo+VHl0iXDssISsRAnvgAKCBXbtNXCZ4paL2KzmGCvOYOPr0cQCfVaKH swC2c4lA1DSL6SoiKix8vB0= =gaqH -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: [Wlug] Anybody want a really cheap computer?
by Jamie Guinan 06 Aug '07

06 Aug '07

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007, Andy Stewart wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > HI everybody, > > Check this link: > http://www.dataevolution.com/dectop%20info%202.htm > > This company bought the assets to the AMD PIC (personal internet > computer). They're selling it for $99, or three for $299. > > Yes, it runs Linux. Here is one person's experience: > http://jsco.org/dectop/ > > I wonder if this machine would make a good LTSP thin client...hummmmm. > Perhaps a topic for a future WLUG meeting? > > See ya later, > > Andy I remember reading about this when it came out a few years ago. It was intended for the same market that OLPC is now aiming for. Hence the rugged "big mac" case. :) Of course it lacks a monitor. A few others to consider, Nicer form factor, but slower CPU (166MHz), no HD: http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS6828123924.html http://www.norhtec.com/products/mcjr/index.html USB 2.0, but pricier (price listed in Euros): http://www.linutop.com/ Consumer variant of OLPC XO1, whenever it comes out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASUS_Eee_PC Not to discourage you - the PIC looks like a fun little box! -Jamie

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core 2 duo extremely slow
by brad 03 Aug '07

03 Aug '07

Hi All, I recently got in a nice new 2.4GHz core 2 duo with a bunch of memory, 8GB. I installed kubuntu i386 on it. To get use of the 8GB of memory i recompiled the kernel to enable high memory support, a.k.a PAE. When i booted the new kernel it saw all my memory, but it took 10-15 minutes to boot. i checked dmesg and it didn't seem to report anything out of the ordinary. Then, I thought that perhaps the 64bit version of kubuntu might be a better option. I installed kubuntu 64bit. The install took two days because every step was extremely slow. Once the install finished, i rebooted and it took 10-15 to boot. I was seeing the same symptoms of the 64bit install as i was with the 32bit install with PAE. I tried downloading the current kubuntu 64bit release as well as the beta of the next release. I'm also trying Fedora Core 7 64bit as i type, but that install is going just as slow. I hunted through the BIOS for any suspicious settings. I removed all the hardware except for the CD-ROM (to boot a live CD). I did searching through the interweb. All with no luck to solving this problem. If anyone has any suggestions, they will be much appreciated. keep cool, - brad

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Detecting power failure
by Tal Cohen 03 Aug '07

03 Aug '07

Hi Guys, I have a question about detecting power failures in Linux. I have an Intel server sitting in a datacenter. It is running Crux 2.1 (a 2.6 kernel). It is a 2U server with 2 power supplies. Does anyone know if I can detect when 1 of the power supplies fails? Thanks, Tal

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Programming position at UMass CS
by Hanna M. Wallach 30 Jul '07

30 Jul '07

========================================== Software Engineer in Information Extraction and Synthesis Laboratory at UMass. Work with computer science researchers and other software engineers to revolutionize search over research literature and patents. See our preliminary web portal for computer science researchers at http://rexa.info/faq, and read relevant publications at http://www.cs.umass.edu/~mccallum/papers. Open source tools: Linux, Java, MySQL, Apache, ... Modern methods: Test-driven development using the Java/Spring framework. Feature-rich, Ajax-based web interfaces. Intellectually stimulating: Learn about cutting edge methods in machine learning, information extraction, web search, data mining, social network analysis. Serious hardware platforms: 100-CPU cluster, 10Tb disk, fast servers and desktops. Challenging work: Not cookie-cutter programming. Integrate with machine learning methods; program for high parallelism; devise algorithms for massive scalability. High creativity, intelligence, experience, and independent drive required. Experienced colleagues: Former VP R&D 170-person startup, extensive professional software engineering experience on the team. Tuition Benefits: Take UMass Amherst courses while working. Opportunities to publish research papers, if desired. True search: No internal candidate. Excellent follow-on prospects: Several others from the lab later got job offers from Google, Yahoo, IBM, Microsoft. (We want someone interested in staying multiple years, though.) Time off: Five weeks vacation and personal time, plus 13 holidays each year. Gorgeous location: Amherst, MA: bucolic surroundings plus active culture. Smith, Holyoke, Hampshire and Amherst Colleges all in the neighborhood. Office with window. ================================================ Rexa: http://rexa.info (create free login) Rexa is a digital library covering the computer science research literature and the people who create it. Rexa is a sibling to Google Scholar, CiteSeer and the ACM Portal. It's chief enhancement is that Rexa knows about more first-class, de-duplicated, cross-referenced object types: not only papers and their citation links, but also people, grants, topics---and in the near future universities, conferences, journals, research communities, and more. Rexa currently provides: * Keyword search on over 7 million papers (mostly in computer science) * Cross-linked pages for papers, authors, topics and NSF grants * Browsing by citations, authors, co-authors, cited authors, citing authors; (find who cites you most by clicking "Citing authors" on your home page) * Web-2.0-style "tagging" to bookmark papers * Automatically-gathered contact info and photos of author's faces * Analysis of research topics, their impact, and how they relate. Coming soon: * Much improved coverage of recent CS papers (it's somewhat weak now) * Ability to make corrections to extracted data Coming later: * Improved ranking, extraction and co-reference accuracy * Much more data mining * Broader coverage of more research fields Rather than seeing our siblings as competitors, we believe that such services are like "newspapers for the research community", and, just as it is tremendously important that there is not solely one national newspaper, we think there should be many such services. This is especially true since increasingly they will do more than simply supply raw information, but also provide subjective analysis, pattern discovery, and predictions. Rexa acts as driving application and showcase for our research in machine learning, natural language processing, information extraction, entity resolution, trend analysis and social network analysis. We aim to revolutionize the progress of science by providing new tools to help scientists do their job more effectively. ============================================ Official Job Posting: The Information Extraction and Synthesis Laboratory within the Center for Intelligent Information Retrieval (CIIR) at the University of Massachusetts Amherst is seeking computer professionals to support its expanding research. The Software Engineers will design, implement, and maintain software systems. Both positions require experience with programming in Java or C++ and with building software systems, web-based systems experience is a plus. Experience preferred in Unix, Network, shell script programming and one or more of the following: information retrieval, natural language processing, text and information extraction processing, and database systems. Software Engineer 1: B.S. in computer science or related field, or equivalent combination of education, training and experience, plus 2-4 years experience or equivalent. M.S. preferred. Hiring Range: $39,200 - $55,400. Respond to Search #R25014. Senior Software Engineer: M.S. in Computer Science or equivalent and 2-4 years of related work experience. Demonstrated leadership ability required; project management experience preferred. Hiring Range: $47,600 - $65,000. Respond to Search #R26907. To apply, send a letter with your resume and three letters of recommendation to: Search {# from above}, Computer Science Department, University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA 01003-9264. These positions are grant-funded; renewal beyond one year contingent upon continued funding. Review of applications will continue until the available positions are filled. The University of Massachusetts is an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer. Women and members of minority groups are encouraged to apply.

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Evolution plugin for MS Exchange
by chuck 26 Jul '07

26 Jul '07

Hi All, I'm running kubuntu feisty with evolution 2.10.1. I'm trying to use the exchange plugin to connect to the MS 2003 Exchange Server at work. I have all the info about the implementation of Exchange from the IT folks, but I just can't make the plugin work. When I enter in my password, I get "Can not authenticate. (password incorrect?)" error. For the "Identity" - Username is my name (not surprising...) - Email address is my fully qualified email address. For the "Receiving email" - Server type is Microsoft exchange - Username is my domainname\username (Note: I've tried it without the domainname, still no joy). - OWA URL is the webmail URL (this has been confirmed by the IT folks) - Authenticate - I enter my password - seems to be ok. - Authentication Type - I've tried both secure and plaintext For "Receiving options" - Global Address List/Active directory settings - There's no entry I've looked at the Ubuntu launchpad website and there seems to be a few issues with the plugin. When evolution starts, it tries to search for mail folders, but finds nothing. I can't even terminate the process. I have to find out what pid number it is and terminate it with the 'kill <pid>' command. Has anyone managed to get this working? Is there some "magic" tweaking that I need to do? TIA, -Chuck

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Re: [Wlug] BBQ Stuff
by Clint Moyer 25 Jul '07

25 Jul '07

http://www.nonstick.com/sounds/Miscellaneous/ltmi_028.wav ---- Andy Stewart <andystewart(a)comcast.net> wrote: ============= -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Eric Martin wrote: > my mistake > It is 6 PM on Thursday - the website it correct. I'll bring the penguin. See ya then! Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group (http://www.wlug.org) Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group (http://linux.meetup.com/393) Amateur Radio: KB1OIQ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGp8bLHl0iXDssISsRAhjEAJwPaWcvdJl3CZuN0ZYugQ9YIK48QgCeNfyf xUT7eJrJ+Co+GnR9BiNjT1o= =6zmU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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BBQ Stuff
by Eric Martin 25 Jul '07

25 Jul '07

Ok, so far I have about 10 people RSVP'd as a yes. I'm hitting the grocery store tonight so please let me know if you haven't already. Also, if a few people could bring chairs that would be awesome, I only have 10 and I couldn't grab any more. Lastly, it's BYOB just so everyone knows, and I will have a cooler w/ice so we can keep stuff cold. See you tomorrow night at 7, right Andy? Eric

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Re: [Wlug] Anyone tried this laptop/know more about it?
by Clint Moyer 25 Jul '07

25 Jul '07

Looks like the the $400 Acer I bought my wife at Microcenter which was a steal at that price. If you think you can get one from Sweden for $150, best of luck to you. Reading thru that site does not exactly inspire confidence. ---- Adam Keck <ghostis(a)gmail.com> wrote: ============= http://www.medisoncelebrity.com/product.html -Adam _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Any SQL-types out there? (more lab automation stuff)
by Stephen Daukas 25 Jul '07

25 Jul '07

Good morning! In the continuing saga of automating various activities where I work, I have taken on processing data files. (Automating data upload is still somewhere in the air.)... This is rather simple in concept, but a bit less obvious in practice (aren't they all!): I would like to open up a CSV file and rearrange the columns according to a standardized order. Not every data file will have all of the standard columns (different probes collect different data), but column headers are standardized. So, I need to inspect each column header so that I can place it and its entire column of data into the proper position in the table, with empty columns inserted where needed to preserve the standard sequence of columns. In other words: A, D, C, G, H becomes A, [B], C, D, [E], [F], G, H where [ ] denote inserted empty columns There are literally hundreds of files of data in CSV format, and I intend to process each by itself, preserving the original, and creating a new "adjusted" file for the next step. (The next step would be to concatenate all files together for numeric processing.) Original files must be preserved (chain of custody requirements), so I am opening the file, selecting records using SQL, and am now ready to do the rearranging/writing to a new file... I didn't know if there is a "well known" SQL way of doing this (e.g., data manipulation statements of some sort), so I thought I'd see if any WLUGgers are also SQL-types. I have a few ideas for how to get this done, but they are "programmer-centric" algorithms, which tend to be different from "SQL-centric" algorithms... The reason for SQL is that I have to do this on a MS platform because that is the standard. But, if most of the real work is done in SQL, then I can easily move to another platform in the future and only have to change the "shell code". I am using VBscript as the "shell language" because it works with all MS apps and file system objects inclusive of CSV files. Thanks for any help!!! Best regards, Steve

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Anyone tried this laptop/know more about it?
by Adam Keck 25 Jul '07

25 Jul '07

http://www.medisoncelebrity.com/product.html -Adam

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WLUG BBQ !!!
by Andy Stewart 25 Jul '07

25 Jul '07

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 HI everybody, The WLUG BBQ is coming up fast: Date: Thursday, July 26th, 2007 Time: 6:00 PM Place: Eric Martin's house Address: 33 Lansing Avenue, Worcester, MA 01605 This is 2.5 miles from WPI. Look for the penguin! WLUG will supply burgers, dogs, munchies, soda, and the like. Thanks, Eric, for hosting the BBQ this year! See ya there! Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group (http://www.wlug.org) Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group (http://linux.meetup.com/393) Amateur Radio: KB1OIQ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGohpEHl0iXDssISsRAiXvAJ4qkWSBpHaGD/MTD9nWU5+/AW2wuwCeOQ5t 4K5LyUHbm0MeiNc/QX5PnG4= =JeTk -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Thanks!
by Stephen Daukas 25 Jul '07

25 Jul '07

Hi all! Thanks for all of the posts on "project management software"! They were helpful! Regards, Steve

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Hard drive configuration
by Michael Long 25 Jul '07

25 Jul '07

I hope someone can point me in the right direction. I have a SuSE 9.3 system that was fully configured when I bought it. When looking at fstab the drives are configured as follows: /dev/sdb3 / reiserfs acl,user_xattr 1 1 /dev/sdb1 /boot reiserfs acl,user_xattr 1 2 /dev/sda1 /raid reiserfs defaults 1 2 /dev/sdb2 swap swap pri=42 0 0 I downloaded OpenSuSE 10.2 and attempted to upgrade the system. When running either an upgrade or new install it tells me that /dev/sda3 is defined as /dev/sdb3 in fstab. Bottom line when I install opensuse 10.2 it sees my raid as sdb and the system is currently setup to have it as sda. I do not understand why my current configuration is the opposite of what a new install is finding. Where do I go from here?

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Re: [Wlug] WLUG BBQ !!!
by James P. Gray 24 Jul '07

24 Jul '07

I have no idea how many people might come. Maybe 30? Is someone taking RSVPs? If your main goal is to advance your knowledge in Linux you may find it more worth your while to attend a regular meeting then the BBQ. During regular meetings we cover specific topics or have free ranging discussions. My understanding is that the BBQ is more of a social event for the group. Someone correct me if I am wrong. kstratton(a)fastmail.us wrote: > I recently joined the mailing list to get an idea of how active this > group is. Perhaps somebody can provide an approximate number of > expected participants for this meeting? If I go (I am thinking about > it...), I would have to take a 1/2 day off from work and drive from > Connecticut. I am looking for an active group that provides an > environment to accelerate my learning with Linux to hopefully reach a > point of learning where it could be enjoyable to contribute back to some > open source project or another. > > I am running Gentoo, so I am not a COMPLETE newbe. > >

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Democracy Player - Miro
by Joe Riopel 18 Jul '07

18 Jul '07

Hi, I am not sure how many of your are/were familiar with the Democracy media player, but they have recently changed the name to Miro (http://www.getmiro.com/) The reason I am posting it here is that some of the core people working on that project are from right here in glorious Worcester. Joe

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greetings
by rwaka jude 12 Jul '07

12 Jul '07

Hello to you all am Rwaka Jude a University student at kigali institute of science and technology (KIST) in central Africa. i have had interest in joining fellow student students in your linux users group due to the fact that am aslo interested and writting my dissertation in a linux environment so i thought of joing groups like yours to see if we can exchange ideas and opinions. My project is: SETTING UP A WEB BASED EMAIL SYSTEM RUNNING ON A LINUX SERVER USING SQUIRREL MAIL; Am hoping to hear from you if you could love to entertain students in your group. otherwise wish all the best of luck and looking forward to hearing from your committee. Regards Jude Rwaka --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.

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Getting your mom on Linux?
by Mike Perry 11 Jul '07

11 Jul '07

Hi all, I visited my parents yesterday and yet again my mother's computer is filled with spyware. Everytime I go there it is slower and slower and odd things keep happening (like icons disappearing ... I've witnessed this myself). I've been considering trying to get her onto Kubuntu, but I have a few valid concerns. I'm curious if anyone has any experience with the following under Linux (any flavor): * Citrix connectivity -- She currently, and very seldom, uses an ActiveX control in IE to connect to her work. Are there alternatives besides using IE and Wine or running a VM? * iPod which is currently registered with her Windows box. I'm not too familiar with this, because my mp3 is not an iPod. * Printing - She currently has a very nice Canon i960 which can print photos. I less concerned about drivers and more about functionality. Her current Windows based software can print wallets, 8x10s, etc very easily. I wouldn't want her to lose that ability. I know some of these answers might be a Google away, but I'm curious on your experiences with this and possibility any other gothcya's that I am not thinking about. If I could overcome these hurdles I think she would actually have a much pleasant experience with her home pc. I've slowly been getting her to adopt open source software, but this would be a big jump. I also think it would be much easier for me help remotely too. Cheers, Mike

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Re: [Wlug] Getting your mom on Linux?
by Mike Leo 05 Jul '07

05 Jul '07

tsclient is a front end to rdesktop. Also, there is an official Citrix client for linux. you could also give her a liveCD and see how many objections you get. I gave my dad linux 3 or 4 years ago now and he's never looked back. ----- Original Message ---- From: Mike Perry <mwp(a)sdf.lonestar.org> To: Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org> Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2007 2:55:42 PM Subject: Re: [Wlug] Getting your mom on Linux? I think tsclient is just a front end to: http://bin-false.org/?p=13 That may be an option depending on how her work has Citrix configured. Rdesktop just makes a reference to ICA. I think the harddrive idea is actually pretty good (if I had a spare drive :) At least this way I could test these scenarios. I really don't have much experience with iPods though. I know they have some kind of DRM -- I am pretty certain I can get it working with Amarok, but what I am not clear on is how it associates the music to account. Even if we rebuilt her Windows computer it may pose a DRM problem. I hate DRM. Anyone have any insight? On another note... I am pretty confident that modern Linux distro's can hold up a novice computer user like my mother. Primarily she uses her computer for casual web surfing and email. She is already using Firefox and Thunderbird -- so if I show her the icons she will know what to do. ~Mike > On Thursday 05 July 2007 1:43:44 pm Andre Lehovich wrote: > > --- Mike Perry <mwp(a)sdf.lonestar.org> wrote: > > > * Citrix connectivity -- She currently, and very seldom, uses an > > > ActiveX control in IE to connect to her work. Are there alternatives > > > besides using IE and Wine or running a VM? > > > > $ apt-cache search citrix > > tsclient - front-end for viewing of remote desktops in GNOME > > rdesktop - RDP client for Windows NT/2000 Terminal Server > > > > The web equivalent: > > http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=citrix > > > > VNC also works for connecting between different operating systems. > > > > --Andre > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > >__ _________ Looking for earth-friendly autos? > > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. > > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Wlug mailing list > > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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