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Firewall on 486 w/8 MB of memory
by Andy Stewart 27 Sep '01

27 Sep '01

HI gang, As part of the Lancaster MA project, there is a 486 machine with 8 MB of memory which we would like to make into a firewall. I'm seeking recommendations on how best to do this. Are we memory limited, or can this work, and if so, how? Can we put at least a minimal installation of something on this machine, or are we going to have to explore the single floppy firewall solutions such as the Linux Router project? Finally, is there somebody who would like to volunteer for Saturday 9/29 to explicitly help with solving this problem? Thanks, Andy -- Andy Stewart Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org

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RE: [Wlug] WPI Install Fest
by Keller, Tim 27 Sep '01

27 Sep '01

Andy, Like usual, I'll volunteer and I'll do the CD's for you. Just let me know what distribution you want and I'll come up with a graphic of some kind. Tim. -----Original Message----- From: Andy Stewart [mailto:andystewart@mediaone.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 11:43 PM To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org Subject: [Wlug] WPI Install Fest Hi Everybody, We will be having an install fest at WPI on Thursday evening, October 4th, from 6 PM to 10 PM in "the Discovery Classroom", aka Higgins Labs room 218. I am mainly aiming this at WPI students, but certainly anybody else who wants to get Linux installed is most welcome to join us. I don't know if I've seen this classroom...could somebody from WPI tell me how many computers we could reasonably accomodate in this room? This is just in case we get overwhelmed with folks requesting installations. I am seeking volunteers to do installations as well as folks who wish to get Linux installed fo the first time. I'll give preference to full installs, but if there are some folks who need to have some piece of Linux configured, we can do that on a space available basis. As in the past, I would like to suggest a $10 donation for installees. This will help to defray the cost of making CDs which you can take with you after the install fest. If you have your own Linux CDs, we'll do our best to get that version installed for you. If you are interested in attending, either as an installer, installee, or voyeur, please send me an e-mail. Thanks! Andy -- Andy Stewart Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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Thanks for your help
by Tim Trachimowicz 26 Sep '01

26 Sep '01

Hey folks! After reading all those replies I took to crafting a message which answered the questions posed to me and went step-by-step through the processes I had done so far. After doing everything, lo-and-behold my NIC actually worked and I was able to get online with my DSL connection. I guess I must've mistyped something somewhere. So, it looks like it works ok now. The *only* snag is that after I rebooted the machine, my settings don't stay. Can anyone help me with that?!? Thanks! --Track _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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RE: [Wlug] WPI Install Fest
by Keller, Tim 26 Sep '01

26 Sep '01

Cool, I'll make a set of cd's with the latest mandrake patches on them, along with the latest redhat/Suse/Debian distributions. I'm also thinking that a set of CD's with: latest kernel: 2.4.10 Mozilla (0.9.4) Star office for linux [would like some input on what else should be put on here (like the latest Wolfenstein MP test :-)] Tim. -----Original Message----- From: Andy Stewart [mailto:andystewart@mediaone.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 8:23 AM To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org Subject: Re: [Wlug] WPI Install Fest On Wednesday 26 September 2001 08:06 am, you wrote: > Andy, > > Like usual, I'll volunteer and I'll do the CD's for you. Cool..thanks Tim! > > Just let me know what distribution you want and I'll come up with a > graphic of some kind. OK...I'll let you know. Brian Conway is bringing 5 sets of Mandrake 8.0 CDs. I'll bring my SuSE CDs for sure. Is the latest Redhat any good? Andy > > Tim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Stewart [mailto:andystewart@mediaone.net] > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 11:43 PM > To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > Subject: [Wlug] WPI Install Fest > > > > Hi Everybody, > > We will be having an install fest at WPI on Thursday evening, October > 4th, from 6 PM to 10 PM in "the Discovery Classroom", aka Higgins Labs > room 218. I am mainly aiming this at WPI students, but certainly > anybody else who wants to get Linux installed is most welcome to join > us. > > I don't know if I've seen this classroom...could somebody from WPI tell > me how many computers we could reasonably accomodate in this room? This > is just in case we get overwhelmed with folks requesting installations. > > I am seeking volunteers to do installations as well as folks who wish > to get Linux installed fo the first time. I'll give preference to full > installs, but if there are some folks who need to have some piece of > Linux configured, we can do that on a space available basis. > > As in the past, I would like to suggest a $10 donation for installees. > This will help to defray the cost of making CDs which you can take with > you after the install fest. If you have your own Linux CDs, we'll do > our best to get that version installed for you. > > If you are interested in attending, either as an installer, installee, > or voyeur, please send me an e-mail. > > Thanks! > > Andy -- Andy Stewart Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

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REMINDER: WLUG Group Project
by Andy Stewart 26 Sep '01

26 Sep '01

HI gang, This is a reminder about the WLUG group project, where we will install Linux on 4 machines in Lancaster MA this coming Saturday, Sept. 29th. We'll be networking them together, connecting 2 printers and configuring them for access by all machines (including a Windows machine), configuring a modem for dial out, and if time allows, we'll configure a USB scanner. I currently have very few responses. We don't need an army of folks, but 3 - 5 more committed folks would probably do the trick. Please send me an e-mail if you definitely plan to attend. Later, Andy -- Andy Stewart Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org

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WLUG discount on Happy Hacking keyboard
by Andy Stewart 26 Sep '01

26 Sep '01

Hi gang, I have no personal connection with this vendor, and I apologize in advance if you consider this spam. The folks at www.pfuca.com who make the Happy Hacking keyboard have extended a $20 discount to WLUG members who wish to purchase any one of their keyboard models. If we (as a group) purchase five, we can get one free (and then fight over it!!!). (Maybe I'll buy one for the raffle...). I am sick of the escape key being in the wrong place and am considering this purchase. If anybody else is interested, please let me know so I can coordinate the group order. Send me e-mail if you are interested in the details. Later, Andy -- Andy Stewart Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org

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NIC's, 486's and a whole lot of frustration.
by Tim Trachimowicz 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

Hey folks... Ok, I have a beat up Compaq ProLinea 486/50MHz, 16MB RAM, 120MB hard drive, a D-Link 220 NIC and a spare IP addres from my DSL provider. I just installed a fresh Slackware 3.5 install of the "A" and "N" disks. My goal is to set it up as a webserver to host a few web pages I've been working on. Now, I've used Linux before, in my other computer using a Win98/RH6 dual boot system, so I've got a basic understanding of what's going on. However, I was using a modem to get online at that time and everything was all well and good for what I was doing. Now, I'm clueless about setting up this sh-tbox for what I want to do with it. Here are my questions: 1) Is it worth it/can it be done? (This would defintely affect the rest of the questions...) 2) How the hell do I set up my NIC for DSL? I have tried to setup my NIC per some FAQ's, O'Reilly's Running Linux (2nd Edition), Usenet posts and a lame HOWTO from my DSL provider. They all seem to advocate different steps which is confusing and doesn't seem to work.

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coyote linux floppy distro
by Benjamin Zack 24 Sep '01

24 Sep '01

Another floppy distro one could use is Coyote Linux. It appears to have a more recent version of the kernel (2.2.19) than the versions of LRP I found(2.2.16). It is based on LRP and has easy install scripts that walk you through the disk creation. There is also a disk creation tool that will run on Windows. It might be worth checking out. FYI, both the Coyote and, I believe, LRP contain exploitable versions of ip_masq_irc, ip_masq_ftp, ip_masq_raudio. Links: http://www.dalantech.com/coyote-faq.shtml#vulnerable http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/3117 -Ben

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one last (maling list) hurrah for USA
by Jeff Reed 20 Sep '01

20 Sep '01

i would personally like to thank the JINX hackwear company for sincerely expressing exactly how i feel on their front page... check it out... http://www.jinxhackwear.com/ -- //-- Jeff Reed //-- Co-founder / Odd (Job) Guy //-- Metro West Boston Linux User Group //-- jreed(a)linuxbusca.com

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make bzdisk
by cc.noyes 17 Sep '01

17 Sep '01

I downloaded the 2.4.9 kernel and built myself a new, up to date kernel, which works fine. I can run 'make bzdisk' and it dd's the kernel to the floppy. When I try to boot the floppy, I get loading ............................................... (lots of dots...) followed by these numbers; 0400 AX:0212 BX:7400 CX:5009 DX:0000 These repeat until I reboot with out the floppy. What's going on???? make bzdisk used to work, should I use another command to create a bootable floppy with the kernel? Thanks, Chuck

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startup scripts & pid
by Bill Mills-Curran 17 Sep '01

17 Sep '01

I'm installing an ircd variant (ircd-hybrid-7) on a server at work. I didn't find an rpm for this newer version, so one of the people in my group built it. However, there is no startup script, so we'll have to cook one ourselves. I have a question about storing the pid in /var/run. Does one of the common functions in the functions script (/etc/rc.d/init.d/functions) handle storing the pid, or is that something that most daemons have built-in? I've found shell code for killing processes using the pid from /var/run, but nothing for storing the pid. Another question... Is there a decent template for writing our own script? I hate to reinvent the wheel. (I never seem to get it very round.) Any suggestions? Thanks, Bill

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Re: Laptop recommendations
by Robert L Krawitz 13 Sep '01

13 Sep '01

I found an HP Pavilion 5470 for $1500 at Circuit City. It was a return. It's only 1024x768, which is less than I want (although it is a 15" display), but with 256 MB, the price, and the combo CDRW/DVD drive, it looked awfully appealing. I have 14 days to decide whether to keep it (there's no restocking fee, since it was an open box). It has a non-Lucent lusemodem. The processor is an Athlon 4/1GHz, for what little that's worth; it's way, way cheaper than anything similar on Pricewatch. According to http://www.deater.net/john/PavilionN5430.html, it's possible to run Linux on it, albeit it uses a not very well supported Trident chipset, among other things. Is anyone familiar with this laptop? Comments? -- Robert Krawitz <rlk(a)alum.mit.edu> http://www.tiac.net/users/rlk/ Tall Clubs International -- http://www.tall.org/ or 1-888-IM-TALL-2 Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- mail lpf(a)uunet.uu.net Project lead for Gimp Print/stp -- http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net "Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works." --Eric Crampton

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Unable to obtain an IP
by Eric Frederick 13 Sep '01

13 Sep '01

I reinstalled Redhat 7.1 on my computer at school and I am unable to connect to the internet. I have only been using Linux for about 7-8 months and I am still a novice. When I was using Redhat 7.1 last spring, it worked fine. I am using a 3com Etherlink card (the driver is 3c905c-tx in windows) and my computer seems to detect it correctly. However, it is using the 3com59* driver. I tried to switch to the driver to 3com90*, but my computer stopped recognizing the card so I doubt it is a driver problem. (Plus, it was using the same driver last spring.) I also tried pump -i eth0 and it failed. Also, I entered an IP hoping that it would pick something up but that does not work either. Does anyone know what could be done to resolve the problem or at least direct me somewhere. Thanks, Eric

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lost in kernel
by Brad Noyes 12 Sep '01

12 Sep '01

Hi all, Has anyone else had trouble finding an option in the kerel config? I was looking for support for /dev/imon (for libfam), but i just can't find it in the kernel config. The kernel has become huge, and hard to find things in. anyone have an easy way of looking for an option in the kernel, or does anyone where this /dev/imon option is in the kernel? Thanks, --Brad

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boot images -- safe to delete?
by Bill Mills-Curran 10 Sep '01

10 Sep '01

I tried to upgrade to RedHat 7.1 tonight, and I found that I do not have enough disk space on /. So I have 3 options: 1. Fresh install 2. Repartition 3. Clean up As much as I'd like to repartition, I'm not sure enough of myself to plow into that, although I'd like to hear what tricks there might be that would make it easy (easier?) to do. One thing I've noticed is that I seem to have extra kernels around, but I thought I'd see if there is any reason I need to keep them before I whack them. Here's what I have: ls -l vm* -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1621659 Aug 22 2000 vmlinux-2.2.16-22 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1739279 Aug 22 2000 vmlinux-2.2.16-22smp lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 Apr 16 22:51 vmlinuz ->vmlinuz-2.2.16-22smp -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 627379 Aug 22 2000 vmlinuz-2.2.16-22 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 654459 Aug 22 2000 vmlinuz-2.2.16-22smp My lilo has: cat /etc/lilo.conf boot=/dev/sda map=/boot/map install=/boot/boot.b prompt timeout=50 default=linux message=/boot/message linear image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.2.16-22smp label=linux initrd=/boot/initrd-2.2.16-22smp.img read-only root=/dev/sda1 image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.2.16-22 label=linux-up initrd=/boot/initrd-2.2.16-22.img read-only root=/dev/sda1 So, I can get of the uncompressed kernel images, right? BTW, when considering my options for repartitioning, I do have a DAT drive for backup/restore ops. Thanks, Bill

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Linux Journal article by Rick Gorton
by Andy Stewart 10 Sep '01

10 Sep '01

Hi gang, Check out the August 2001 Linux Journal article on page 22 entitled "Kernel Tuning Gives 40% Gains" by Rick Gorton. The article describes work that was done to the Alpha specific portions of the Linux kernel to optimize its behavior for the 21264 (EV6) Alpha processor. Rick has attended many WLUG meetings in the past. Way to go, Rick! Andy -- Andy Stewart Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org

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REMINDER: Meeting, Wed. Sept. 12th
by Andy Stewart 10 Sep '01

10 Sep '01

HI everybody, This is a reminder about the upcoming WLUG meeting, to be held this Wednesday, Sept. 12th, at 7 PM in Kinnicutt Hall on the WPI campus. Directions can be found on the WLUG website. I would like to spend part of the meeting discussing a potential group project. I was contacted by Warren Rasmussen, the Director of the Lancaster (MA) Center for the Aging. He would like to convert several of his office computers from Windoze to Linux, with shared printers, network, shared dialup modem, etc. Warren would also like us to entertain the notion of the creation of a few Linux workstations to be used by senior citizens for e-mail and web surfing, again, using Linux. Some training of the seniors would be required. He'd like to see if we can prove that Linux is easy enough for seniors to use. I have invited Warren to the meeting, so we can get more details from him at that time, and then gauge the interest level of the group in participating in this project. Since the WPI school year has just started, I would like to take the opportunity to introduce any WPI Linux Association officers who might be in attendance. I also plan to open the floor for tech support questions aimed at the group membership. I may still have an item or two that I can bring for a raffle. Afterwards, we'll adjourn to the Boynton Restaurant for some pizza and beer, and all are welcome to attend. See ya later, Andy -- Andy Stewart Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org

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Prelinker...
by Keller, Tim 07 Sep '01

07 Sep '01

Hey All, This popped up on the Mandrake-expert mailing list so I thought I'd pass it along... http://www.research.att.com/~leonb/objprelink/ Enjoy... Tim.

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Anyone played around with Linux on iPaq?
by Dan Potter 06 Sep '01

06 Sep '01

I recently perchased an iPAQ from Compaq, and as many probably already know, there is a Linux distro for iPAQ. Anyone have any experience with it? Suggestions? Thanks!

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RHL 7.1 upgrade: Xterm bizarre, etc
by Peter Gutowski 06 Sep '01

06 Sep '01

Although *installing* linux from RedHat disks has improved over the years, I still find that upgrading an existing installation can really try your patience. After doing a number of clean installs using the RedHat 7.1 disks, I felt comfortable thinking I could upgrade without much problem. Wrongo. There are a number of things that changed. Some I had know about from the previous clean installs. Others came as a distressing surprize: for instance the sendmail upgrade changes default behavior radically in that it is compiled against the tcpwrappers library, so now you need to consider sendmail entries in your hosts.allow and hosts.deny. Actually, that's a great idea, but I sure wish I knew that before hand (rather than bouncing mail for 2 days until I discovered the problem.) Anyway, I could go on detailing some of these fascinating experiences, but I'll get to the point: my xterm seems to be bizarre when running on the local xserver. I usually don't run xdm (runlevel 5 default in RedHat) but just do a startx. When I do that everything seems pretty OK until I actually try to *do* something. I click on the Netscape icon in the panel on the bottom of the screen. Nothing. I launch an xterm to try to figure out what's happening (or not, in this case) and it just gets worse: the keys don't seem to be matched up to the correct characters. When I press the 'o' key, I get a 'p' on the screen. When I press 'i', I get 'o'. In general it seems like the whole keyboard is just slid over by 1 key -- but I can't seem to find a key that gives me an return or enter. As you can imagine this is annoying. I use Hummingbird Xceed on a windoze machine and the Xterm there running from the linux machine seems to be problem free. (Actually, that's how I usually "use" my linux machine -- I very rarely sit down in front of it.) When I do sit in front of it and use a plain tty, it's fine that way too. Any ideas what's going on here? -Peter Gutowski

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Fwd: Sympathy for a guy over his head
by Colin Novick 06 Sep '01

06 Sep '01

Thoughts from wisened pros? Now more than ever I need to migrate to Linux. I am using a dual boot system MS/Linux and I desperately want to cut the cord. Previously the difficulty was an inability to print. Newest guess on that is that there is a possible conflict with lpd and CUPS running at the same time? I have yet to unpack how one goes about fixing that. Most recent challenge was to get a network connection established between two machines on 3Com cards on a 3Com box. Didn't quite get my hands around that, though many different angles were tried. Current thinking on this one is to look around and see if SAMBA might let me configure things. And then I really messed things up. While trying to establish a network I saw this neat option that lets machines share an internet connection, and I pursued it.... After playing around for a while I disabled it and now the Internet connection will not properly execute the ppp. I can manually get all the way through the logon in a Terminal session and when I get to: Entering PPP Session IP address is 216.164.248.83 MTU is 1500 There is nowhere to go from here. Leave it alone and it disconnects. Try to do anything, any key, and gobbledygook shows up killing any prospect of a PPP session completing. Possible that the system "enabling IPv4 packet forwarding" on startup is some leftover from my messing around with sharing an internet connection? No idea on that one. All right. It is necessary to screw around and make mistakes to learn. I am excelling at that, and probably do now know more. The difficulty is that I have never seen this up and working anywhere before, and when trying to solve a problem I am working without an image in my head of what is or isn't supposed to be there. Thought to reload the Mandrake 7.2 system and hope to wipe the settings I created return to where I was originally pursuing different paths. Trick there is that "Reload" keeps all the settings. Shouldah done a reinstall. Learned that too. Any thoughts, or maybe even just a weak hearted consoling word or two. My deepest and sincerest thanks to the learned who had to endure hear a young fool trying to find his feet. Colin

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Re: Mandrake network/pppd problems
by Benjamin Zack 05 Sep '01

05 Sep '01

I am not sure what scripts Mandrake put in place to share your network, but if you haven't checked the ipchains/iptables rule sets, do so. It is possible that a rule set could prevent you from logging on via pppd and block ports necessary for communication with the printer. The commands below will clear out the rule sets(enter as root), but will leave you system open. I would not suggest staying online long without a good working rule set. service ipchains stop service iptables stop use the appropriate line (I believe Mandrake 7.2 uses ipchains by default) or try both. -Ben

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Re: [Wlug] Thanks
by Peter Gutowski 05 Sep '01

05 Sep '01

On Wednesday, September 5, 2001 11:12 AM, Colin Novick <gwlt(a)ma.ultranet.com> wrote: >Thanks Ben! > ... > >On the windows side of my machine I am connecting my machine to a large >format HP printer (DesignJet 488 CA) through a 3Com network card and >a 3Com 4 port fast ethernet hub. The HP requires that I send all the >data to a HP JetDirect 300X box that transfers the data through a >parallel conn. to the printer. It is faster for big projects that way >if you believe the literature. That works fine in Windows , but again >I can't "see" the important command settings that make trying to >understand what works, and thus how to replicate it in Linux >hard. > >I haven't been able to address the large HP in Linux through printing >programs, network interfaces, or fiddling in network settings. My >machine's network card is there (eth0) and I can ping that. Thus there >is a way out and onto the network. All the connected items satisfy the >3Com hub and the appropriate indicator lights show a good connection. >I was of the belief that the HP printer may have a "static" IP in its >hardware so I tried pinging that. No luck. Nor any luck for trying to >just assign an IP to it, though I have to admit that I may have done >that improperly through ignorance. > You probably need to configure your jetdirect box with an ip address (You can use the Windows-based JetAdmin to check/change settings). You can't ping the jetdirect box if it's TCP/IP network settings aren't set or are wrong for your network. (BTW, once it's settings _are_ correct you can telnet into the jetdirect box to make further changes, [or screwups ;]) After that it's a matter of adjusting the /etc/printcap to know where to send the data. E.g.... //----- portion of /etc/printcap ------- lp:\ :sh:\ :ml=0:\ :mx=0:\ :sd=/var/spool/lpd/lp:\ :rm=jetdirect:\ :rp=RAW1:\ :bk:\ :lpd_bounce=true:\ :if=/usr/share/printconf/mf_wrapper: the 'rm' means 'remote machine' (in my case here it's name is 'jetdirect' which resolves to an ip address) and the 'rp' is the name of the print queue on that remote machine (in my example here the queue name is 'RAW1'). You'll need to consult jetdirect box's setting to know how it should be set for your printer. (Also the 'if' option is responsible for creating the data in a format that your printer will handle) What does 'route -n' output look like? (might be /sbin/route) -- Peter Gutowski <peter(a)linuxchamps.com> // tel.: (413) 587-3957 "When in company, put not your hands to any part of the body not usually discovered." --George Washington, _Rules for Civility and Decent Behavior_

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I thought you guys might get a kick out of this
by Brian J. Conway 05 Sep '01

05 Sep '01

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/TechNet/prodtech… Strangely, I don't see any mention of Code Red in there... Brian J. Conway dogbert(a)clue4all.net "LINUX is obsolete" - Andrew S. Tanenbaum, creator of Minix

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Sympathy for a guy over his head
by Colin Novick 04 Sep '01

04 Sep '01

Thoughts from wisened pros? Now more than ever I need to migrate to Linux. I am using a dual boot system MS/Linux and I desperately want to cut the cord. Previously the difficulty was an inability to print. Newest guess on that is that there is a possible conflict with lpd and CUPS running at the same time? I have yet to unpack how one goes about fixing that. Most recent challenge was to get a network connection established between two machines on 3Com cards on a 3Com box. Didn't quite get my hands around that, though many different angles were tried. Current thinking on this one is to look around and see if SAMBA might let me configure things. And then I really messed things up. While trying to establish a network I saw this neat option that lets machines share an internet connection, and I pursued it.... After playing around for a while I disabled it and now the Internet connection will not properly execute the ppp. I can manually get all the way through the logon in a Terminal session and when I get to: Entering PPP Session IP address is 216.164.248.83 MTU is 1500 There is nowhere to go from here. Leave it alone and it disconnects. Try to do anything, any key, and gobbledygook shows up killing any prospect of a PPP session completing. Possible that the system "enabling IPv4 packet forwarding" on startup is some leftover from my messing around with sharing an internet connection? No idea on that one. Allright. It is necessary to screw around and make mistakes to learn. I am excelling at that, and probably do now know more. The difficulty is that I have never seen this up and working anywhere before, and when trying to solve a problem I am working without an image in my head of what is or isn't supposed to be there. Thought to reload the Mandrake 7.2 system and hope to wipe the settings I created return to where I was originally pursuing different paths. Trick there is that "Reload" keeps all the settings. Shouldah done a reinstall. Learned that too. Any thoughts, or maybe even just a weak hearted consoling word or two. My deepest and sincerest thanks to the learned who had to endure hear a young fool trying to find his feet. Colin

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