October 2003 - WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

Debian question
by Chuck Homic Oct. 9, 2003

Oct. 9, 2003

Oh, hey... my Debian rant reminded me of something! I have Debian running on a 486-25 with 12MB of RAM. (Pause for laughter...) Okay. Now then. When I run dpkg (on its own, or via apt-get) it wants about 18M of RAM to work with. This causes a fair deal of thrashing, and if I just let it go, it takes about 30 minutes to install even the most basic package. My solution thus far is to use the NBD driver to mount a swap space over the network. This is actually faster because the swap and actual package install don't have to contend for precious HDD seek time, and I can install the most basic packages in about 10 minutes or so. Even so, it would be nice if it were a bit faster still. Anyone know what dpkg does with its RAM? Is it loading all the packges into memory to figure out dependencies and stuff? Any way to make it behave more efficiently? -Chuck

6 7

shameless promo of Slackware by the DistroWatch guy..
by Brian McLinden Oct. 9, 2003

Oct. 9, 2003

DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 17, 29 September 2003 (opinion piece article by Ladislav Bodnar, the man who runs DW itself) "A new stable version of Slackware Linux was released late on Friday. As usual, the news was greeted with plenty of enthusiasm by many die-hard Slackware fans and by much curiosity from users of other distributions. What is so special about Slackware? Unlike other commercial distribution makers, such as Red Hat, Mandrake or SuSE, Slackware doesn't come with any system administration tools, it has an amazingly unsophisticated package manager and the company rarely makes headlines in the Linux media. Yet every a new Slackware release is announced, a wave of excitement sweeps the Linux forums and new sites (this OSNews review is a good example). Slackware is to Linux distributions what vi is to UNIX text editors - many people expected vi to die after an abundance of new, more intuitive and user-friendly text editors were introduced. But instead, vi flourished. And while other Linux distributions have certainly managed to take market share away from Slackware, there are still plenty of people out there -- probably a lot more than many would led you believe -- who would never consider using anything else. If you've never tried Slackware before, give it a partition now - and be prepared to fall in love... [end of comment]" Question - does he like slack because it is more like unix than any other distro? Back in the days when men were men............... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com

1 0

I choose Slackware.. God help me! (And you guys, please?)
by Brian McLinden Oct. 8, 2003

Oct. 8, 2003

That�s why I hope to meet guys into slack. Tomorrow night�s meeting? The email below is about my climb in life and the three technical things foremost in my concerns. If you�re not into slack, there�s no need to continue reading. tks, Brian - - - - - - - - - - - - - I'm a newbie with just a little Fortran experience and a 1 gig HDD machine with Windows 98 and no printer either! Nonetheless I�m feeling the need to choose Slackware 9.1. It�s because I�ve read a bit of craft obligation and personal challenge in the following: �Slackware is Linux's oldest living distribution. It does not try to emulate Windows, it tries to be as Unix-like as possible. It does not try to cover up processes with fancy, point-and-click GUIs(Graphical User Interfaces). Instead, it puts users in control by letting them see exactly what's going on. Slackware is for people who enjoy learning and tweaking their system to do exactly what they want. Slackware's stability and simplicity is why people will continue to use it for years to come.� But simple does not mean easy, does it? Back in the days when men were Men........... I�m up in years (you�ll know me when you see I�m fat, ugly, and bald with white hair), but in my day I made 5 violins under a master (before life took me somewhere else). The only power tool I used was a band saw to cut smaller pieces out of a split log. You can make a violin out of very few knives, chisels, scrapers, and a block plane. I made my own patterns, knives, and scrapers. I had never worked wood before, even by power tools. (I never had had interest in those.) Those early instruments were slow going and not a little agony, but I knew with control of the hand and discipline of the heart that I could step up in my work, and take it to the level of art, well beyond anyone skilled with power tools. Am I a bit competitive and still trying to be a man�s man? Anyhow, I believe you see the parallel. I want to get to command line and not rely at an emotional level on commercial distributions what with all *their* packaging schemes (read: complications) and *their* bloatware GUI�s. It�s a bit about control and pride, isn�t it? How else can I bypass the Windows mentality and hope to step up in open source as a craft? I want to be a thinker and doer in this game, not just a consumer or user of various Distributions. My goal longer term is art, not just sitting at the feet of documented Authority. Another parallel: how can you design a Cadillac with no skills to build a model T Ford? Man or not, I�m scared! At the least I�m feeling a little shaky, and here�s why. Switching back to the violin story, I knew how to make those knives out of straight razors and scrapers out of blue shim stock. I could sharpen on my own the blade of a block plane until no one could see the edge. It was intuitive and it wasn�t rocket science. It took no prior reading or class instruction. I put in plenty of sweat time at the bench. It took me eight days (no kidding) to cut my first bass bar to a perfect fit, and I never backed off once from the challenge. Of course I knew my master was back there, watching. I did not quit while seeing him work at ten times my rate. My pride would not let me give up. But there came a time when I could go no further without my master�s help. Art was not possible without the ultimacy and intimacy of oral tradition. Thank God for newsgroups and the WLUG. It takes a community to raise a boy to manhood. So learning slackware, as learning unix in the old days, must require a combination of self-reliance AND guru help. In life we must settle for no false choices. Three items below. As background, I�m about ready to place an order for a stripped down machine with two IDE drives and Slackware. (Forget all that talk last week about SCSI, I don�t need bragging rights or a hardware �screamer.� Because, as you must know by now, the �screaming� I�m experiencing now has nothing whatever to do with any hardware.) 1. Partitions. I�m new to Linux, but trying to learn, so please don�t shoot me. What should my (various?) slack files look like? I have never seen any. I don�t know what to look for. Specifically, what partitioning specs can I give to the vendor who will pre-install and configure slack for me so that I have a working machine? I would like to be able to read and learn from these files BEFORE the iron arrives on my desk. I would like to split my slack partitions over two 80G disks for speed of random access. Thus, taking platter construction into account, the most frequently used partitions should be in the physical center of each disk. I would like to put slack primarily on hda, and, later on, any second distribution (Mandrake? Libranet? new Debian when it comes out?) primarily on hdb. What detailed partitioning do you recommend upfront to permit or pave the way for this control and flexibility? 2. Internet. auuggh..! Here, a problem of the chicken/egg variety. What should my slack files look like for dial-up access (to start with my current Prodigy) and DSL access (Speakeasy later when I�m ready to try downloads)? Unless I have these things up and running, I won�t be able to interface with online Linux help! 3. Printer. Anyone have a reliable model number for a Linux printer to suggest? Nothing fancy, just something to print out docs for Linux study in the woods, and an occasional letter. What should my slack files look like? (Of course I don�t know a thing yet about driver stuff..) These three are my foremost technical concerns that seem to be holding me back from my first flight. I hope to receive you hand up on these things! Biggest thing of all, the opportunity to meet you tomorrow night and chat over pizza. until then, Brian __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com

2 2

1st posting: Worcester ISP? Distros? LAC?
by Brian McLinden Oct. 7, 2003

Oct. 7, 2003

Hi all, Newbie here. I want to get to the command line and some interesting scripting projects as soon as possible. Would you help me get there? Some preliminaries: First, I live in Worcester. Can you help me find an ISP that will know how to talk to a Linux newbie like me? Second, I want to multiboot with distros that are easy to tinker with AFTER that so-caloled "easy install." I hear that RPM-based approaches give headaches in this regard. So here is my provisional list: - Debian 3.0 - Slackware 9.1 - Libranet 2.8.1 (a commercial tailoring of Debian) How might you comment on or modify this selection so I can learn Linux with the least impediment to changes after the install? What order would you tackle them in? Finally, on Saturday I may order a SCSI box with Los Alamos Computers, laclinux.com. Any word about them, good or bad? They are willing to pre-install a multi-boot for any selection of distros that I want! May I phone you if you would be open to that? What are good times for us to talk? Glad to be onboard, Brian ++++++++++++++++++++++++ Brian L. McLinden 6 Wachusett Street - #34 Worcester, MA 01609-2647 (508) 752-3033 ++++++++++++++++++++++++ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com

9 14

What mix of distros to learn with? Please evaluate..
by Brian McLinden Oct. 6, 2003

Oct. 6, 2003

Hi all, Newbie here. I am purchasing a system to learn Linux with by multi-booting. The three distros I'm thinking of having the vendor pre-install are: - Slackware 9.1 - Libranet 2.8.1 (a commercial Debian from Canada) - some RPM approach (which of RH, Suse, or Mandrake would you go with? why?) I want to learn with diverse systems that are easy to modify/reconfigure/ maintain/upgrade after the box arrives. Would you say this a good mix of distros fo initial learning purposes, or would you suggest I consider another mix or approach--and why? Thank you all, Brian __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com

3 2

REMINDER: Upcoming meeting Thursday Oct 9th
by Andy Stewart Oct. 6, 2003

Oct. 6, 2003

Hi everybody, Our next WLUG meeting is coming up soon. This e-mail is a friendly reminder of that fact. This meeting will be held in a totally new location on the WPI Campus in Worcester, MA USA. The location is called the "Access Grid" room, and it is located in the "lower wedge" of Morgan Hall. Detailed directions appear on the recently updated WLUG website. I'll try to post a few of my penguin signs to guide you. I'm told that this room has some great projection equipment and can hold approx. 20-25 people without a problem. At this meeting, Doug Waud will talk about and demonstrate some genealogical Linux software called Lifelines. As I don't expect this to take the entire duration of the meeting, I'll also bring my laptop and demonstrate XFce version 4, a lightweight desktop for Linux. In addition, I was asked to spend a few minutes describing a couple of commands for the new Linux users of the group. We can also explore the capabilities of the new meeting room and make plans for its use at future meetings. After the meeting, we'll go out for pizza and beer at the Boynton Restaurant. See ya later! Andy -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org

1 0

Re: [Wlug] What mix of distros to learn with? Please evaluate..
by Matt Higgins Oct. 5, 2003

Oct. 5, 2003

Brian, I would start by getting used to one distro before venturing out. If you are not familiar with Linux/UNIX at all there will be a steep learning curve before you build up your command line vocabulary. With that said I think RH is a great starter distro. The installer is one of the best, and for someone new to Linux rpm's are the best way to get you where you want fast (rpmfind is your friend). Matt

2 1

what size/speed combo to use for a dual SCSI system?
by Brian McLinden Oct. 4, 2003

Oct. 4, 2003

Hello -- I'm new here, and hoping to meet many of you soon! I want to multi-boot and play with three distros for a machine that would most likely always be a workstation, not a server. It would be for numerical work and not involve large or many audio or video files. It happens that the smaller the SCSI drive, the better the performance, and of course the smallest, fastest sizes available for SCSI are 18G and 32G. I'm planning to buy a matched pair of drives in order to spread the partitions for each distro across the two drives. Two questions: 1. I'd like to use use 2x18, but in your opinion, do I need 2x32? 2. Do you think 15000 rpm will be noticeably snappier than 10000 rpm? Thanks all, Brian 752-3033 anytime __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com

3 2

RE: [Wlug] Foxtrot cartoon in Worcester T&G
by Simoncini, Matthew Oct. 3, 2003

Oct. 3, 2003

Sorry if you don't accept attachments: <<...OLE_Obj...>> Matthew > -----Original Message----- > From: Keith Wright [mailto:kwright@free-comp-shop.com] > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 3:40 PM > To: Worcester Linux User's Group > Subject: [Wlug] Foxtrot cartoon in Worcester T&G > > > Or any where else you can find it. > > It goes like: > > Large blackboard, small boy, stern teacher: > > Blackboard: > #include <stdio.h> > int main(void) > { int k; > for (k=1;k<=500;k++) > printf("I will not throw paper airplanes in class"); > return(0); > } > > Boy: Holds chalk. > > Teacher: Nice try. > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

2 1

Foxtrot cartoon in Worcester T&G
by Keith Wright Oct. 3, 2003

Oct. 3, 2003

Or any where else you can find it. It goes like: Large blackboard, small boy, stern teacher: Blackboard: #include <stdio.h> int main(void) { int k; for (k=1;k<=500;k++) printf("I will not throw paper airplanes in class"); return(0); } Boy: Holds chalk. Teacher: Nice try.

1 0