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Re: Hosting in-person meetings at library

by Tim Keller

Joshua, That's awesome! Count me in. Later, Tim. On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 7:51 PM <joshua.gage.stone(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Update: I went ahead with reserving a meeting time for us tomorrow to > ensure it'd be available to the club -- 7:00PM to 8:15PM. > > I hope that helps! > > - Josh > > On Wed, 2021-07-14 at 18:30 -0400, joshua.gage.stone(a)gmail.com wrote: > > I can reserve a time slot for tomorrow if there's enough interest in going > to the library for a change in pace and scenery. I think it'd be good for > transitioning back to in-person meetings! > > - Josh > > On Wed, 2021-07-14 at 15:39 -0400, Tim Keller wrote: > > I think it's a great idea! > > Speaking with the Technopia folks, they're interested in having us, but it > sounds like it would happen in the Sept. time frame, I'd like to have a > couple in person meetings before that. > > Is this something people would be interested in doing tomorrow? > > Thanks, > Tim. > > > On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 9:25 PM joshua.gage.stone--- via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Hey all, > > I've learned that the library in my town is open to the public for > hosting club meetings! More info: > > https://hudsonpubliclibrary.com/ > > Some of the benefits I can think of for having meetings at the library > include: > > - Free hosting > - Free public wifi > - Free on-site parking > - Low noise levels > - Projector and whiteboard are available > - Books, music, movies, etc, are available for checking out > (https://bark.cwmars.org/eg/opac/home) > - Adjacent to many restaurants, most having outdoor seating > - Has EV charging stations nearby > - Access to well-maintained walking trails and public parks > > Cons: > > - Conference room capacity is capped at 10 occupants > - Meetings must end 15 minutes before library's closing time, so would > have to end at 8:15PM > - Many restaurants might be closed by 9PM > > > I could imagine going back to our usual monthly meetings, from 7:00PM > to 8:15PM on Thursdays, then walking over to one of the restaurants > next door for food and drinks. I can personally vouch for these local > establishments, all reachable within a 5 minute walk: > > https://railtrailflatbread.com/ > https://www.wellysrestaurant.com/ > https://newcitymicrocreamery.com/ > https://www.lessthangreaterthan.com/ > https://www.kithandkinhudson.com/ > https://www.horseshoepub.com/ > https://freshwingma.com/ > https://www.medusabrewing.com/beer-garden > > What do you think? > > - Josh > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/J7HU7… > > > > > >

July 15, 2021

Re: Hosting in-person meetings at library

by joshua.gage.stone＠gmail.com

Update: I went ahead with reserving a meeting time for us tomorrow to ensure it'd be available to the club -- 7:00PM to 8:15PM. I hope that helps! - Josh On Wed, 2021-07-14 at 18:30 -0400, joshua.gage.stone(a)gmail.com wrote: > I can reserve a time slot for tomorrow if there's enough interest in > going to the library for a change in pace and scenery. I think it'd > be good for transitioning back to in-person meetings! > > - Josh > > On Wed, 2021-07-14 at 15:39 -0400, Tim Keller wrote: > > I think it's a great idea! > > > > Speaking with the Technopia folks, they're interested in having us, > > but it sounds like it would happen in the Sept. time frame, I'd > > like to have a couple in person meetings before that. > > > > Is this something people would be interested in doing tomorrow? > > > > Thanks, > > Tim. > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 9:25 PM joshua.gage.stone--- via WLUG > > <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > > Hey all, > > > > > > I've learned that the library in my town is open to the public > > > for > > > hosting club meetings! More info: > > > > > > https://hudsonpubliclibrary.com/ > > > > > > Some of the benefits I can think of for having meetings at the > > > library > > > include: > > > > > > - Free hosting > > > - Free public wifi > > > - Free on-site parking > > > - Low noise levels > > > - Projector and whiteboard are available > > > - Books, music, movies, etc, are available for checking out > > > (https://bark.cwmars.org/eg/opac/home) > > > - Adjacent to many restaurants, most having outdoor seating > > > - Has EV charging stations nearby > > > - Access to well-maintained walking trails and public parks > > > > > > Cons: > > > > > > - Conference room capacity is capped at 10 occupants > > > - Meetings must end 15 minutes before library's closing time, so > > > would > > > have to end at 8:15PM > > > - Many restaurants might be closed by 9PM > > > > > > > > > I could imagine going back to our usual monthly meetings, from > > > 7:00PM > > > to 8:15PM on Thursdays, then walking over to one of the > > > restaurants > > > next door for food and drinks. I can personally vouch for these > > > local > > > establishments, all reachable within a 5 minute walk: > > > > > > https://railtrailflatbread.com/ > > > https://www.wellysrestaurant.com/ > > > https://newcitymicrocreamery.com/ > > > https://www.lessthangreaterthan.com/ > > > https://www.kithandkinhudson.com/ > > > https://www.horseshoepub.com/ > > > https://freshwingma.com/ > > > https://www.medusabrewing.com/beer-garden > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > - Josh > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > > > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > > > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > > > Change Settings: > > > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > > > Web Forum/Archive: > > > > > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/J7HU7… > > > > >

July 14, 2021

Re: Hosting in-person meetings at library

by joshua.gage.stone＠gmail.com

I can reserve a time slot for tomorrow if there's enough interest in going to the library for a change in pace and scenery. I think it'd be good for transitioning back to in-person meetings! - Josh On Wed, 2021-07-14 at 15:39 -0400, Tim Keller wrote: > I think it's a great idea! > > Speaking with the Technopia folks, they're interested in having us, > but it sounds like it would happen in the Sept. time frame, I'd like > to have a couple in person meetings before that. > > Is this something people would be interested in doing tomorrow? > > Thanks, > Tim. > > > On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 9:25 PM joshua.gage.stone--- via WLUG > <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Hey all, > > > > I've learned that the library in my town is open to the public for > > hosting club meetings! More info: > > > > https://hudsonpubliclibrary.com/ > > > > Some of the benefits I can think of for having meetings at the > > library > > include: > > > > - Free hosting > > - Free public wifi > > - Free on-site parking > > - Low noise levels > > - Projector and whiteboard are available > > - Books, music, movies, etc, are available for checking out > > (https://bark.cwmars.org/eg/opac/home) > > - Adjacent to many restaurants, most having outdoor seating > > - Has EV charging stations nearby > > - Access to well-maintained walking trails and public parks > > > > Cons: > > > > - Conference room capacity is capped at 10 occupants > > - Meetings must end 15 minutes before library's closing time, so > > would > > have to end at 8:15PM > > - Many restaurants might be closed by 9PM > > > > > > I could imagine going back to our usual monthly meetings, from > > 7:00PM > > to 8:15PM on Thursdays, then walking over to one of the restaurants > > next door for food and drinks. I can personally vouch for these > > local > > establishments, all reachable within a 5 minute walk: > > > > https://railtrailflatbread.com/ > > https://www.wellysrestaurant.com/ > > https://newcitymicrocreamery.com/ > > https://www.lessthangreaterthan.com/ > > https://www.kithandkinhudson.com/ > > https://www.horseshoepub.com/ > > https://freshwingma.com/ > > https://www.medusabrewing.com/beer-garden > > > > What do you think? > > > > - Josh > > > > _______________________________________________ > > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > > Change Settings: > > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > > Web Forum/Archive: > > > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/J7HU7… > >

July 14, 2021

Re: Hosting in-person meetings at library

by Robert N. Evans

I am not in MA today, but I am very interested to attend future meetings in Hudson as I live very close to there. Bob Evans -----Original Message----- From: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Sent: Jul 14, 2021 3:39 PM To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Cc: Joshua Stone <joshua.gage.stone(a)gmail.com>, Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> Subject: [WLUG] Re: Hosting in-person meetings at library I think it's a great idea! Speaking with the Technopia folks, they're interested in having us, but it sounds like it would happen in the Sept. time frame, I'd like to have a couple in person meetings before that. Is this something people would be interested in doing tomorrow? Thanks, Tim. On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 9:25 PM joshua.gage.stone--- via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: Hey all, I've learned that the library in my town is open to the public for hosting club meetings! More info: https://hudsonpubliclibrary.com/ Some of the benefits I can think of for having meetings at the library include: - Free hosting - Free public wifi - Free on-site parking - Low noise levels - Projector and whiteboard are available - Books, music, movies, etc, are available for checking out (https://bark.cwmars.org/eg/opac/home) - Adjacent to many restaurants, most having outdoor seating - Has EV charging stations nearby - Access to well-maintained walking trails and public parks Cons: - Conference room capacity is capped at 10 occupants - Meetings must end 15 minutes before library's closing time, so would have to end at 8:15PM - Many restaurants might be closed by 9PM I could imagine going back to our usual monthly meetings, from 7:00PM to 8:15PM on Thursdays, then walking over to one of the restaurants next door for food and drinks. I can personally vouch for these local establishments, all reachable within a 5 minute walk: https://railtrailflatbread.com/ https://www.wellysrestaurant.com/ https://newcitymicrocreamery.com/ https://www.lessthangreaterthan.com/ https://www.kithandkinhudson.com/ https://www.horseshoepub.com/ https://freshwingma.com/ https://www.medusabrewing.com/beer-garden What do you think? - Josh _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/J7HU7… -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers". _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/W5KG5…

July 14, 2021

Re: Hosting in-person meetings at library

by Tim Keller

I think it's a great idea! Speaking with the Technopia folks, they're interested in having us, but it sounds like it would happen in the Sept. time frame, I'd like to have a couple in person meetings before that. Is this something people would be interested in doing tomorrow? Thanks, Tim. On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 9:25 PM joshua.gage.stone--- via WLUG < wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey all, > > I've learned that the library in my town is open to the public for > hosting club meetings! More info: > > https://hudsonpubliclibrary.com/ > > Some of the benefits I can think of for having meetings at the library > include: > > - Free hosting > - Free public wifi > - Free on-site parking > - Low noise levels > - Projector and whiteboard are available > - Books, music, movies, etc, are available for checking out > (https://bark.cwmars.org/eg/opac/home) > - Adjacent to many restaurants, most having outdoor seating > - Has EV charging stations nearby > - Access to well-maintained walking trails and public parks > > Cons: > > - Conference room capacity is capped at 10 occupants > - Meetings must end 15 minutes before library's closing time, so would > have to end at 8:15PM > - Many restaurants might be closed by 9PM > > > I could imagine going back to our usual monthly meetings, from 7:00PM > to 8:15PM on Thursdays, then walking over to one of the restaurants > next door for food and drinks. I can personally vouch for these local > establishments, all reachable within a 5 minute walk: > > https://railtrailflatbread.com/ > https://www.wellysrestaurant.com/ > https://newcitymicrocreamery.com/ > https://www.lessthangreaterthan.com/ > https://www.kithandkinhudson.com/ > https://www.horseshoepub.com/ > https://freshwingma.com/ > https://www.medusabrewing.com/beer-garden > > What do you think? > > - Josh > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/J7HU7… > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

July 14, 2021

Hosting in-person meetings at library

by joshua.gage.stone＠gmail.com

Hey all, I've learned that the library in my town is open to the public for hosting club meetings! More info: https://hudsonpubliclibrary.com/ Some of the benefits I can think of for having meetings at the library include: - Free hosting - Free public wifi - Free on-site parking - Low noise levels - Projector and whiteboard are available - Books, music, movies, etc, are available for checking out (https://bark.cwmars.org/eg/opac/home) - Adjacent to many restaurants, most having outdoor seating - Has EV charging stations nearby - Access to well-maintained walking trails and public parks Cons: - Conference room capacity is capped at 10 occupants - Meetings must end 15 minutes before library's closing time, so would have to end at 8:15PM - Many restaurants might be closed by 9PM I could imagine going back to our usual monthly meetings, from 7:00PM to 8:15PM on Thursdays, then walking over to one of the restaurants next door for food and drinks. I can personally vouch for these local establishments, all reachable within a 5 minute walk: https://railtrailflatbread.com/ https://www.wellysrestaurant.com/ https://newcitymicrocreamery.com/ https://www.lessthangreaterthan.com/ https://www.kithandkinhudson.com/ https://www.horseshoepub.com/ https://freshwingma.com/ https://www.medusabrewing.com/beer-garden What do you think? - Josh

July 14, 2021

Re: VPN Question

by Chuck Anderson

"VPN" is an overloaded term. Here are several different usages: - Remote Access Creates a secure tunnel from a VPN client machine to a remote/corporate network. Depending on the VPN client/server configuration, it may route only traffic destined to the remote network through the VPN while all other traffic goes directly to the Internet. That is called "split-tunnel". The other way routes all traffic through the VPN such that you end up using the remote network's ISP for all of your Internet traffic too. That is called "full-tunnel". This the most common traditional usage of the term "VPN". Standard VPN protocols: IPsec, SSL/TLS, L2TP, etc. Proprietary clients (may use standard protocols, but with proprietary extensions): Cisco Anyconnect Pulse Secure Palo Alto GlobalProtect etc. Standard clients (may interoperate with servers from the above companies, but with reduced functionality) Built-in Microsoft Windows L2TP client Built-in Android VPN client Built-in MacOS VPN client etc. Open Source clients (may interoperate with above companies, but with reduced functionality) openconnect / NetworkManager-openconnect - IPsec, SSL/TLS, etc. openswan/freeswan - IPsec openvpn - this one stands on its own as a non-standard but open protocol/software There are also other VPN plugins for NetworkManager - Site-to-Site Creates a secure site-to-site connection between networks. Often uses the same technologies as the remote access use case above, but instead of running a VPN client on an end-user machine and connecting to a VPN server, it is often configured to run directly on routers and/or firewalls so that an entire site's traffic is securely tunneled to one or more remote sites. - "Anonymizer" Create a secure tunnel to a VPN provider for the purposes of "hiding" your traffic from your own ISP (but not the VPN provider or its ISPs) or appearing to Internet services as if you are located in a different geographical region (e.g. to bypass content restrictions) There are various for-pay and possibly free-of-cost services. As far as I know, they are all proprietary and use their own clients, but I could be wrong. - Routed Provider-Provisioned VPN Creates a private "overlay" network using esoteric protocols such as MPLS and VXLAN, etc. They may be encrypted (using IPsec or some other technology), but are often NOT encrypted because their purpose is different. These are used internally by ISPs, medium/large enterprises, etc. to private a virtual private overlay for segmentation reasons, optionally allowing for overlapping IP address spaces (e.g. mulitple customers of an ISP can be using 192.168.1.0/24 and 10.0.0.0/8 at the same time in separate private network overlays that share the same equipment in the ISPs internal backbone.) Examples: VRF-Lite MPLS-based L3VPN MPLS-based L2VPN/L2 Circuits MPLS-based VPLS EVPN-MPLS EVPN-VXLAN other VXLAN-based overlays etc. On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 09:55:27AM -0400, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: > Ron, > > There are a zillion VPN products on the market.. though generally a > specific VPN client is somewhat wed to the server side. Personally I have a > dim view of all things McAffee, but who knows maybe they bought a good VPN > from someone and rebranded it. > Personally I've used Shrewsoft on windows and frankly the built in windows > 10 VPN isn't *horrible*. > > Tim. > > On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 11:25 AM hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > > > Hey everybody: > > > > A friend asked me about VPNs and I don't know a whole lot lot on the > > topic. They have a Windows computer and are using a McAfee VPN. The > > question is, is this a decent product, should they use it or not or > > consider something else?

July 13, 2021

Re: VPN Question

by Tim Keller

Ron, There are a zillion VPN products on the market.. though generally a specific VPN client is somewhat wed to the server side. Personally I have a dim view of all things McAffee, but who knows maybe they bought a good VPN from someone and rebranded it. Personally I've used Shrewsoft on windows and frankly the built in windows 10 VPN isn't *horrible*. Tim. On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 11:25 AM hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey everybody: > > A friend asked me about VPNs and I don't know a whole lot lot on the > topic. They have a Windows computer and are using a McAfee VPN. The > question is, is this a decent product, should they use it or not or > consider something else? > > regards, > > > Ron > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/Q4CVQ… > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

July 13, 2021

VPN Question

by hammerron

Hey everybody: A friend asked me about VPNs and I don't know a whole lot lot on the topic. They have a Windows computer and are using a McAfee VPN. The question is, is this a decent product, should they use it or not or consider something else? regards, Ron

July 11, 2021

No meeting tonight.. sorry for any confusion. Next Meeting 7/15/2021

by Tim Keller

Hey Gang, I just got back from vacation. We're going to have our meeting next week instead. Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

July 8, 2021

Re: I'm thinking Technocopia is a no go.

by Robert N. Evans

June 22, 2021

Re: I'm thinking Technocopia is a no go.

by Kevin Harrington

Hey there! I have been away on vacation for the past few weeks, and in the process of changing jobs. Sorry for the lag! We would love you have the WLUG hosted at technocopia! We are working with the building right now to ramp down some of the building-wide COVID restrictions so that we can have public events at Technocopia again soon. Can you give us an estimate on numbers of folks coming to the meetings? On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 1:33 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I've reached out twice and my emails have gone unanswered, I think we > should start planning to have WLUG somewhere else. > > I don't know if WPI is an option or not. I think the last of the people > are gone from WPI so we don't have anybody to reserve a room.. If anybody > knows someone, etc.. awesome. > > If people have other options, I'd love to hear them. > > Thanks, > Tim. > > > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ACW5C… >

June 22, 2021

I'm thinking Technocopia is a no go.

by Tim Keller

I've reached out twice and my emails have gone unanswered, I think we should start planning to have WLUG somewhere else. I don't know if WPI is an option or not. I think the last of the people are gone from WPI so we don't have anybody to reserve a room.. If anybody knows someone, etc.. awesome. If people have other options, I'd love to hear them. Thanks, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

June 22, 2021

Re: opinions on home email services

by Keith Wright

Mike Peckar via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > I've noted that many of you host your own email and file servers, I run a mail server (Postfix) as well as web and name servers on a Pentium ATX bought used 2012-09-27 for $225. It has a Tandy monitor that I have had since forever, and connects to the internet via DSL. > I've wanted to do this for several years, Why? What to do depends on what you want to get done. > but I've been avoiding taking this on myself. This is due to the time > investment (to learn tech I don't necessarily want to learn) I run Linux because I _do_ want to know how it all works and be able to control it myself, ... at least sometimes. Sometimes I wish it would just work. > Quite frankly, I'm getting lazy in my old age and I'm > considering a packaged solution/service like The Helm. Why not gmail? > If a lazy guy like me sets up an email server, but then doesn't > get around to applying security updates for half a year, is he > just asking to be hacked? You don't want to run an open relay, but a packaged server from a Linux distribution will not do that. Don't do something really stupid to change it. I don't think the chance of the server getting hacked is great. The server doesn't do much but copy Ascii characters from an internet port to your mail file. No harm in that. The crackers will be trying to trick you, some other user on your machine, or some stupid software, to treat that text as an executable program and run it. Don't do that! One example of a potentially stupid program is a web browser that treats the email as HTML and obeys javescript, downloads URL-s, and does a lot of automagic to give you a "user experience". In short---worry about the user interface and the user more than the mail server. > I am a local Charter customer with a standard internet-only subscription. What does that mean? Not bundled with cable TV and telephone? The old question: Are they stupid or lying? It's not an XOR question. Sometimes it's both, and sometimes the meaning of words has changed. At one time internret service meant you got an internet address and packets sent to that address came to you. Now, it's not so clear, but internet-only might mean you get what you need to run a web browser and not one bit more. They may actively try to prevent other internet traffic. > I guess my question is, are the tech barriers to setting up a home > email server really as formidable as claimed in the below > justification from The Helm's web site? > From: https://blog.thehelm.com/post/how-helm-works-part-1-networking I looked at that. They are trying to sell a stange shaped box. There is almost no information about what's in the box, at least on that page. Helm web page> Since announcing Helm three weeks ago That's a bit scary, but the web page is 18 months old. Maybe by now you can find some product reviews from one who bought it a few months ago. Helm web page> When you buy a Helm, a gateway (AWS EC2 instance) is spun up with an Elastic IP. I didn't know what is an "Elastic IP", so I Googled that. It looks like a Rube Goldberg plan to get Amazon Web Service to give you a temporary IP address without conforming to the DHCP RFC. I saw ominous references to an _hourly_ charge if your IP address is not used in the way AWS expects. Does Helm help get AWS to work, or just provide another level of indirection and recusive finger pointing? Helm> ISPs in the U.S. block port 25 by default, Helm> ISPs also typically assign dynamic IPs Helm> To summarize, port blocking, dynamic IPs and challenges in Helm> establishing a PTR record all interfere with easily running an email I don't know your ISP. I got my setup almost two decades ago from Speakeasy. Speakeasy was great. I could email a question Sunday night and have a reply from someone who understood the question and knew the answer by the time I woke up Monday. They set up reverse DNS, and ran a secondary name server for a one-time set up fee and negligble monthly charge. Speakeasy was sold to Best Buy, who sold to...Megapath... ...I forget...who sold it to GTT. With each sale the service got worse, until now it's a hassle to just pay the bill and get it credited to the right acount. They provide no service. They ignore email, but insist that communication comes via "tickets" on their web interface. These are handled by some bot-man who is paid to push a button that generates an auto-reply that says: "That is not a problem. The ticket is closed." I can't imagine getting this set up with my current Idiot Service Provider. Fortunately, they have (so far) not screwed up _all_ of the setup they bought. In particular I still have the same IP address and reverse DNS. I live in fear that some Idiot will "upgrade" my service by breaking something zey does not understand, and I will never get it back. Ask your ISP how to get an IP address with reverse DNS. If they do not understand the question, ignore it, of say $10,000/month, think of a new plan. -- Keith

June 17, 2021

Re: opinions on home email services

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Voorhis via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: Michael> On 6/15/21 12:13 PM, Mike Peckar via WLUG wrote: >> [quoted text] For an email server to send and receive email with >> other servers on the internet, they need port 25 to be open. >> Unfortunately, ISPs in the U.S. block port 25 by default [...] ISPs >> also typically assign dynamic IPs to residential internet >> connections. Large email service providers block residential dynamic >> IPs en masse also due to the issue raised above. [...] Michael> Port 25 access is not blocked by Charter in central MA, anyway. Perhaps Michael> it is blocked elsewhere. Michael> My IP address has changed about 4 times in the past 7 years Michael> or so. When it changes a script of mine warns me, and I go Michael> edit my DNS to change the MX and SPF information there. This Michael> all takes perhaps 5 minutes. If you don't want to watc hyour Michael> home IP as carefully, you could run a backup MX server in Michael> some more IP-stable location, i.e., a VM off in Amazon EC2. Michael> Certain domains will flat-out refuse to accept email which Michael> originates from a RESIDENTIAL network block. The only one Michael> I've encountered though is Comcast. Email sent to addresses Michael> @comcast.net are refused, even when the email passes all the Michael> tests (SPF, DKIM, DMARC etc). Mail sent to GMAIL, YAHOO, Michael> various microsoft/azure addresses etc, all work. I presume Michael> that if you want your mail to be accepted from everywhere, Michael> you should get a business plan from your ISP. I run my own domain on a Linode Droplet and it works well, except for when I get on a spam list for some reason. I used to run on a Digital Ocean Droplet, but charter.net would just refuse to accept my email, so I had to move. I've not got a company blocking my emails, which is frustrating since I'm such a small outgoing email system. Michael> Depending on what you'd like to add on top of your mail Michael> service things can get more complicated, but email itself Michael> isn't too bad. Test out your setup before exposing it to the Michael> internet, and make sure it doesn't accept email for domains Michael> other than your own. If you run an open relay email server Michael> that's a very good way to get shut off. In my experience, setting up postfix/dovecot on a system in the cloud isn't too hard, but both Mike and I are IT people at the $WORK job, so it's something we do anyway. I haven't made the jump to doing DKIM yet, if only because it's painful to do so, and I'd probably have to spring for a larger node with more memory at Linode to handle that overhead. In general, it's not too bad, and could be made even simpler if there was an Ansible playbook to do all the setup for you. So I pay $7/mo for my Linode host, plus te $60/year for my DNS hosting elsewhere. So if Helm is $10/month for 10 addresses/mailboxes, then maybe it's not worth doing it yourself. But I also like the control and I like to learn new things. John

June 17, 2021

Re: opinions on home email services

by Larry Camilli

About 15 years ago, I found that I could send email directly between my OpenVMS home system and work computers. [I didn't have to set up anything. It just worked.] [Not a server per se (to, say, PCs with email clients); just using the built-in mail program to send and receive mail.] Then, it stopped working. It turns out that Verizon (for DSL, at least), started reporting/registering all of the DHCP IP addresses that they would assign to home users as SPAM sources, so they'd be blocked everywhere. You had to pay for business-class service (and get a static address) for them to let things through. Verizon also blocked port 80 inbound. [Easy to get around; I just started using a different port.] {Verizon was a nightmare in general. They collected the money that they pretended on the bills is a tax, even though it's a fee that Verizon keeps, purportedly for maintaining copper lines, and actually spent the money on cell phone infrastructure. [There were lawsuits against Verizon in several states for fraud; In California, at least, Verizon settled.] Places with nothing but copper had dreadful service. [I started running curl in a script to log all of the outages. And, I often managed to get no more than 32K baud. When it rained, the baud rate often dropped below 1K. I was paying for 1M - 3M.]} Then, some volunteers in my town arranged for the local municipal light department to run optical fiber cable through the town. We now have Spectrum, and, as far as I can tell, nothing is blocked. [And, the modem presents a real internet address to the house/Ethernet side. -I have a separate router, separate WiFi access point...] Haven't tried sending email directly in a while, though. _____ From: Mike Peckar via WLUG [mailto:wlug@lists.wlug.org] Subject: [WLUG] opinions on home email services

June 15, 2021

Re: opinions on home email services

by Michael Voorhis

On 6/15/21 12:13 PM, Mike Peckar via WLUG wrote: > [quoted text] For an email server to send and receive email with > other servers on the internet, they need port 25 to be open. > Unfortunately, ISPs in the U.S. block port 25 by default [...] ISPs > also typically assign dynamic IPs to residential internet > connections. Large email service providers block residential dynamic > IPs en masse also due to the issue raised above. [...] Port 25 access is not blocked by Charter in central MA, anyway. Perhaps it is blocked elsewhere. My IP address has changed about 4 times in the past 7 years or so. When it changes a script of mine warns me, and I go edit my DNS to change the MX and SPF information there. This all takes perhaps 5 minutes. If you don't want to watc hyour home IP as carefully, you could run a backup MX server in some more IP-stable location, i.e., a VM off in Amazon EC2. Certain domains will flat-out refuse to accept email which originates from a RESIDENTIAL network block. The only one I've encountered though is Comcast. Email sent to addresses @comcast.net are refused, even when the email passes all the tests (SPF, DKIM, DMARC etc). Mail sent to GMAIL, YAHOO, various microsoft/azure addresses etc, all work. I presume that if you want your mail to be accepted from everywhere, you should get a business plan from your ISP. Depending on what you'd like to add on top of your mail service things can get more complicated, but email itself isn't too bad. Test out your setup before exposing it to the internet, and make sure it doesn't accept email for domains other than your own. If you run an open relay email server that's a very good way to get shut off. --MCV.

June 15, 2021

opinions on home email services

by Mike Peckar

Hi, I've noted that many of you host your own email and file servers, and I've wanted to do this for several years, but I've been avoiding taking this on myself. This is due to the time investment (to learn tech I don't necessarily want to learn) and the added weight of responsibility for security. Quite frankly, I'm getting lazy in my old age and I'm considering a packaged solution/service like The Helm. I guess my question is, are the tech barriers to setting up a home email server really as formidable as claimed in the below justification from The Helm's web site? If a lazy guy like me sets up an email server, but then doesn't get around to applying security updates for half a year, is he just asking to be hacked? For context, I am a local Charter customer with a standard internet-only subscription. From: https://blog.thehelm.com/post/how-helm-works-part-1-networking [quoted text] For an email server to send and receive email with other servers on the internet, they need port 25 to be open. Unfortunately, ISPs in the U.S. block port 25 by default, a practice started in the 90s when home computers were hacked and turned into open relays abused for spamming. Sometimes it’s possible to get this port unblocked, but it’s not uncommon for the ISP to ask for a significantly more expensive class of service in exchange. ISPs also typically assign dynamic IPs to residential internet connections. Large email service providers block residential dynamic IPs en masse also due to the issue raised above. While it’s possible to get a static IP address from your ISP, they will charge for it and potentially require a more expensive class of service. PTR records, or reverse DNS, is also a key requirement for trustworthiness when setting up an email server. Getting this type of record with a residential internet connection can be a significant challenge and may also incur additional costs. To summarize, port blocking, dynamic IPs and challenges in establishing a PTR record all interfere with easily running an email server at home. It can cost hundreds of dollars per year and consist of a significant investment of time with your ISP to get things set up just right. After thinking about this problem and experimenting for a while, we managed to find a better way. [end quoted text] Thanks, Mike

June 15, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting tomorrow! June 10th, 2021 at 7pm!

by Jon "maddog" Hall

I enjoyed the meeting, but I had to leave quickly too. My spouse was calling on another line, and I think most of us can understand and forgive the situation. md On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 9:52 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > No worries! > > We wrapped up the meeting by ~930, finished by Maddog regaling us with > tails of IBM! > > I hope to soon hear from the Technopia people and then we can decide what > we want to do. > > Later, > Tim. > > On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 10:44 PM Keith Wright via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >> Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> >> >> > We've got a WLUG meeting tomorrow June 10th, 2021 at 7pm. >> >> Sorry I left the meeting so abruptly. >> I am not sure if I pushed the wrong button, >> or if one of the ten-thousand loose connections >> that we call internet service, jiggled. >> >> Suddenly I was not connected. >> >> At that point reality shook me and said: >> That's enough anyway! >> >> It did not seem worth the time to log back on >> just to make a tearfull goodbye. >> >> Good Bye <snif>, >> >> -- Keith >> >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/MWQAE… >> > > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/QZUIH… >

June 11, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting tomorrow! June 10th, 2021 at 7pm!

by Tim Keller

No worries! We wrapped up the meeting by ~930, finished by Maddog regaling us with tails of IBM! I hope to soon hear from the Technopia people and then we can decide what we want to do. Later, Tim. On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 10:44 PM Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > > We've got a WLUG meeting tomorrow June 10th, 2021 at 7pm. > > Sorry I left the meeting so abruptly. > I am not sure if I pushed the wrong button, > or if one of the ten-thousand loose connections > that we call internet service, jiggled. > > Suddenly I was not connected. > > At that point reality shook me and said: > That's enough anyway! > > It did not seem worth the time to log back on > just to make a tearfull goodbye. > > Good Bye <snif>, > > -- Keith > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/MWQAE… > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

June 11, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting tomorrow! June 10th, 2021 at 7pm!

by Keith Wright

Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > We've got a WLUG meeting tomorrow June 10th, 2021 at 7pm. Sorry I left the meeting so abruptly. I am not sure if I pushed the wrong button, or if one of the ten-thousand loose connections that we call internet service, jiggled. Suddenly I was not connected. At that point reality shook me and said: That's enough anyway! It did not seem worth the time to log back on just to make a tearfull goodbye. Good Bye <snif>, -- Keith

June 11, 2021

WLUG Meeting tomorrow! June 10th, 2021 at 7pm!

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody, We've got a WLUG meeting tomorrow June 10th, 2021 at 7pm. This will be a totally virtual meeting, but hopefully our last!! Topic: I thought I'd give a quick update on my CNC machine and my quest to have a full FOSS toolchain.. what's worked, what hasn't, etc. I expect that'll only take a couple of minutes and then we'll move on to our usual banter! Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA See ya there! Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

June 9, 2021

PipeWire pro audio support

by Joshua Stone

Hey everyone! The PipeWire project has been an exciting project to follow, as there has been heavy development for broad audio use case coverage: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pipewire/pipewire/-/wikis/home https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pipewire/pipewire/-/blob/master/NEWS It seems that the developers are currently prioritizing pro-audio use cases as of late: https://twitter.com/PipewireP/status/1401885732587847680 >A little question for our pro-audio friends out there. Now that we got freewheeling and latency reporting implemented, what is at the top of your wishlist for PipeWire features? This should be quite exciting! I've tried several DAWs over the years, and admittedly they seemed to require more effort than necessary to configure correctly with the Linux audio stack. I'm hoping PipeWire will be able to resolve this weakness! What do you think could use more improvement? - Josh

June 7, 2021

Re: Fedora 34 updates

by joshua.gage.stone＠gmail.com

Hey Ron, Under normal circumstances, `dnf upgrade` will decide to automatically update its metadata depending on the age of the cache: $ dnf repolist --verbose | grep --extended-regexp '^Repo-(id|expire)' Last metadata expiration check: 0:03:23 ago on Fri 21 May 2021 10:18:52 AM EDT. Repo-id : fedora Repo-expire : 604,800 second(s) (last: Sat 15 May 2021 12:40:46 AM EDT) Repo-id : fedora-cisco-openh264 Repo-expire : 1,209,600 second(s) (last: Fri 21 May 2021 10:18:40 AM EDT) Repo-id : google-chrome Repo-expire : 172,800 second(s) (last: Fri 21 May 2021 10:18:50 AM EDT) Repo-id : rpmfusion-free Repo-expire : 1,209,600 second(s) (last: Fri 21 May 2021 10:18:50 AM EDT) Repo-id : rpmfusion-free-updates Repo-expire : 172,800 second(s) (last: Fri 21 May 2021 10:18:51 AM EDT) Repo-id : rpmfusion-nonfree Repo-expire : 1,209,600 second(s) (last: Fri 21 May 2021 10:18:51 AM EDT) Repo-id : rpmfusion-nonfree-updates Repo-expire : 172,800 second(s) (last: Fri 21 May 2021 10:18:52 AM EDT) Repo-id : updates Repo-expire : 21,600 second(s) (last: Fri 21 May 2021 10:18:43 AM EDT) This has the benefit of keeping package metadata up to date so installing outdated packages doesn't happen often. Running `dnf upgrade --refresh` will have a similar effect to `apt update && apt full-upgrade`, where you'd be forcing a metadata cache update with every upgrade. You can also force dnf to stick to just the local cache and skip metadata updates with `dnf upgrade --cacheonly`. You can learn more about different supported options by running `dnf upgrade --help`. - Josh On Fri, 2021-05-21 at 14:08 +0000, THE HAMMER via WLUG wrote: > I just installed Fedora 34 on a "junk laptop" to play along with. > Looked on line and wound up with a couple different answers, and so > perhaps they are all correct. My question is when I want to update > all the packages in the lap top what is the correct/best command? > > Also what is the difference between > > dnf upgrade > > and > > dnf upgrade --refresh > > Thanks > > Ron > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/X4PAR…

May 21, 2021

Re: [EXT] Fedora 34 updates

by Krichevsky, Nicholas J.

Unlike something like apt, dnf periodically refreshes its caches (I don't know what the condition is off the top of my head). Using just dnf upgrade will either 1) use the current local version of the caches, if it still considers them valid or 2) perform a refresh. Once that happens, it will calculate the upgrade. Adding --refresh forces #2. I usually opt for --refresh just to make sure I have the latest packages. ________________________________ From: THE HAMMER via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 10:08:57 AM To: WLUG LIST <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Cc: THE HAMMER <hammerron(a)hotmail.com> Subject: [EXT] [WLUG] Fedora 34 updates I just installed Fedora 34 on a "junk laptop" to play along with. Looked on line and wound up with a couple different answers, and so perhaps they are all correct. My question is when I want to update all the packages in the lap top what is the correct/best command? Also what is the difference between dnf upgrade and dnf upgrade --refresh Thanks Ron

May 21, 2021

Fedora 34 updates

by THE HAMMER

I just installed Fedora 34 on a "junk laptop" to play along with. Looked on line and wound up with a couple different answers, and so perhaps they are all correct. My question is when I want to update all the packages in the lap top what is the correct/best command? Also what is the difference between dnf upgrade and dnf upgrade --refresh Thanks Ron

May 21, 2021

Re: Carbon-neutral living

by Chris Thompson

Great start, thanks Joshua! Definitely agree that moving heat is one of the better items to be considering. There are a good few options for the ground-based systems depending on space available and funds. You hit on some YT channels that I typically look at on renewable/green info. One that I'd add to that pile is "Just Have a Think": https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRBwLPbXGsI2cJe9W1zfSjQ There's also a couple Tesla fan-boys @ "Now You Know". They do a good job covering some interesting renewable tech outside of Tesla as well, including other new (generally electric) transportation options and more: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMFmrcGuFNu_59L0pHcR0OA As an aside, Battery Hookup is great for sourcing used low-cycle count batteries that are ideal for things like DIY power-walls for home solar, if you really want to geek out on storage. They've also got a few (small-scale - i.e. camping-size) solar items still available from the Renogy liquidation sale that started a few days ago: https://batteryhookup.com/ (use a code on checkout - BATTERY or DIY normally work for at least 5%) Regards, Chris On 5/14/21 1:45 PM, joshua.gage.stone--- via WLUG wrote: > Hey everyone! > > Thanks for another night full of discussion covering many interesting > topics! > > I'm interested to learn more about everyone's longterm plans for > carbon-neutral/carbon-negative living! My wife and I have been > researching on this topic for some time as we believe there are > numerous benefits in reducing energy requirements, and we hope that > when it comes time to become home owners we'll be able to start from > the ground up with this type of living ingrained in our household! > > It turns out that there's a *lot* of room for improvement in energy > efficiency, and by extension, carbon reduction. While I think > transition to green energy is immensely important as a longterm plan, I > also think it's important for us to evaluate ways to reduce our carbon > footprint as individuals > > Examples include: > > - Switching to induction stoves which are more efficient and safer than > traditional electric stoves > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pftcQ6NGPfc > > - Switching to heat pump dryers for reducing energy usage with the > added bonus of eliminating the need for vents > > https://www.energystar.gov/products/heat_pump_dryer > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh-j0sWBEJA > > - Switching to heat pump water heaters > > https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/heat-pump-water-heaters > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omivdhxdGv0 > > - Switching to air-source/ground-source heat pumps to replacing > gas/oil/electric heating for hot water and heating > > https://www.energystar.gov/products/heating_cooling/heat_pumps_geothermal > https://www.energystar.gov/products/heating_cooling/heat_pumps_air_source > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zrx-b2sLUs > > I think heat pump technology could be very promising for a wide number > of applications, as it turns out that the most efficient way to work > with heat is to simply *move* it around, rather than generate more heat > through gas, oil, etc. With climate change and global warming being an > existential threat, the last thing we want to do is add more heat to > the problem! > > > A more ambitious longterm goal my wife and I have is that we would like > to someday have a house built to Passive House standards, which is said > to reduce home heating requirements by up to 90%: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=secB3R0sIYU > https://phmass.org/ > https://www.buildwithrise.com/stories/texas-passive-house-weathered-the-202… > https://zeroenergy.com/portfolio/all-projects > https://zeroenergyproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/RPA_Scranton_Passi… > https://www.phius.org/home-page > > Something I find especially interesting about Passive Houses is that > they're often able to achieve net positive energy production and EV > charging with even a modust solar panel installation. This means they > can give back to the power grid with fewer panels compared to other > houses built to code, reducing the total environmental impact from > solar panel manufacturing. > > Of course, there's a high upfront monetary cost to transitioning to > eco-friendly living, but at least there are programs in place to help: > > https://www.masssave.com/ > https://multifamily.fanniemae.com/financing-options/specialty-financing/gre… > > > Hope to hear everyone's thoughts! > > > - Josh > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ZD5QG…

May 14, 2021

Carbon-neutral living

by joshua.gage.stone＠gmail.com

Hey everyone! Thanks for another night full of discussion covering many interesting topics! I'm interested to learn more about everyone's longterm plans for carbon-neutral/carbon-negative living! My wife and I have been researching on this topic for some time as we believe there are numerous benefits in reducing energy requirements, and we hope that when it comes time to become home owners we'll be able to start from the ground up with this type of living ingrained in our household! It turns out that there's a *lot* of room for improvement in energy efficiency, and by extension, carbon reduction. While I think transition to green energy is immensely important as a longterm plan, I also think it's important for us to evaluate ways to reduce our carbon footprint as individuals Examples include: - Switching to induction stoves which are more efficient and safer than traditional electric stoves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pftcQ6NGPfc - Switching to heat pump dryers for reducing energy usage with the added bonus of eliminating the need for vents https://www.energystar.gov/products/heat_pump_dryer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh-j0sWBEJA - Switching to heat pump water heaters https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/heat-pump-water-heaters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omivdhxdGv0 - Switching to air-source/ground-source heat pumps to replacing gas/oil/electric heating for hot water and heating https://www.energystar.gov/products/heating_cooling/heat_pumps_geothermal https://www.energystar.gov/products/heating_cooling/heat_pumps_air_source https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zrx-b2sLUs I think heat pump technology could be very promising for a wide number of applications, as it turns out that the most efficient way to work with heat is to simply *move* it around, rather than generate more heat through gas, oil, etc. With climate change and global warming being an existential threat, the last thing we want to do is add more heat to the problem! A more ambitious longterm goal my wife and I have is that we would like to someday have a house built to Passive House standards, which is said to reduce home heating requirements by up to 90%: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=secB3R0sIYU https://phmass.org/ https://www.buildwithrise.com/stories/texas-passive-house-weathered-the-202… https://zeroenergy.com/portfolio/all-projects https://zeroenergyproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/RPA_Scranton_Passi… https://www.phius.org/home-page Something I find especially interesting about Passive Houses is that they're often able to achieve net positive energy production and EV charging with even a modust solar panel installation. This means they can give back to the power grid with fewer panels compared to other houses built to code, reducing the total environmental impact from solar panel manufacturing. Of course, there's a high upfront monetary cost to transitioning to eco-friendly living, but at least there are programs in place to help: https://www.masssave.com/ https://multifamily.fanniemae.com/financing-options/specialty-financing/gre… Hope to hear everyone's thoughts! - Josh

May 14, 2021

Re: Reminder: WLUG Meeting tonight! May 13th 2021 at 7pm!

by Keith Wright

Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > This is a reminder that we've got a meeting today at 7pm! I expect to be there (here). > Topics tonight will likely include the UMN debacle, I'm from Minnesota, so to me UMN means University of MN, what does that have to do with Linux? It must be some variant of Universal Markup. So I did what we do, ask google. UMN is University of MN; try again. "UMN Debacle" is some drug test done at UMN that went bad, needs someone to blame. Eventually I find that UMN also got some bad code into the Linux update stream and had their write permissions revoked. I had heard on the radio that something like that had happened, but didn't remeber where it came from, and the radio news readers/reporters clearly didn't know what they were talking about anyway. Next! > the encoder/decoder vulnerability stuff, No time to look that up. I'll have to fake it. > probably some other Linux related stuff! Oh good. We are finally going to have a discussion of use of Scheme macros based on linear logic to produce provably correct concurrent programs. I am getting ready by re-reading the proof of the Myhill-Shepherdson theorem. > I'd also like to talk about meeting in person. Why would I do that? There are some people I am eager to meet in person, because I want to feel them up. None of those people are WLUG members (sorry if that hurts your feelings, but it's best to be honest). I am vaccinated, but I am also on immuno-supressor drugs, haven't driven for 15 years, and haven't been in the same room as some of those people alluded to above for 15 months. It's too soon for me. Go ahead and meet downtown if you wish; I doubt I will be there for a while. I hope the video-chat meetings go on for a while concurrently (with a provably correct procedure, of course!). -- Keith

May 13, 2021

Reminder: WLUG Meeting tonight! May 13th 2021 at 7pm!

by Tim Keller

This is a reminder that we've got a meeting today at 7pm! In the usual location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Topics tonight will likely include the UMN debacle, the encoder/decoder vulnerability stuff, probably some other Linux related stuff! I'd also like to talk about meeting in person. If it's something that people are down for (I know Maddog is!) I'll reach out to Technopia and see what their rules are. Thanks, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

May 13, 2021

Re: Reminder! Meeting Next Week on May 13th 2021!

by Joel

Hi All, I also get my second shot Tuesday. Go team Phyz! I can do remote meeting this week. Can do either Jitsi or in person in June and beyond. Joel On May 7, 2021 10:36:10 AM John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Tim> We've got a meeting on May 13th! > > Dang, won't make it because I'm travelling for work. Half vaccinated > too. I get the second after I get back, yay! > > Tim> For topics, there's a whole lot to talk about! Obviously the UMN > Tim> stuff, as well as the x86 decoder fun. > > And I wish I had more to talk about zeek too. It was interesting > getting it installed, but I recently rebuilt that box to run the > TP-Link Omada software on a dedicated box. I'm annoyed that they're > Java web app is so damn far behind in terms of OS support. > > But having a tool to summarize zeek stuff better would be nice. The > daily report was interesting, but not really what I wanted, but I'm > not sure what I want. Something simple and ASCII, but focused. Lots > to talk about there, but maybe leave that to another meeting. > > > Tim> I think it's worth revisiting having in person meetings.. At some > Tim> point here in the near future a majority of us are going to be > Tim> vaccinated. I'll reach out to Kevin (if he's not already reading > Tim> this!) and see what Technopia's policies are going to > Tim> be. Whatever we do, I think we've all agreed it makes sense to > Tim> keep the virtual component going as well. To that point, I'll be > Tim> getting my second shot on Tuesday so I might be not feeling > Tim> great, we'll see. > > I've been meaning/wanting to visit Technopia and to even join so as to > have a place to go where I can be around other motivated people and > work on my Phd (Projects Half Done) stuff. Plus there's good places > around there for food afterwards. > > Heck, in another year or so it might be fun to do a wlug woo-sox game > meeting. > > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/3OFZM…

May 7, 2021

Re: Reminder! Meeting Next Week on May 13th 2021!

by John Stoffel

Tim> We've got a meeting on May 13th! Dang, won't make it because I'm travelling for work. Half vaccinated too. I get the second after I get back, yay! Tim> For topics, there's a whole lot to talk about! Obviously the UMN Tim> stuff, as well as the x86 decoder fun. And I wish I had more to talk about zeek too. It was interesting getting it installed, but I recently rebuilt that box to run the TP-Link Omada software on a dedicated box. I'm annoyed that they're Java web app is so damn far behind in terms of OS support. But having a tool to summarize zeek stuff better would be nice. The daily report was interesting, but not really what I wanted, but I'm not sure what I want. Something simple and ASCII, but focused. Lots to talk about there, but maybe leave that to another meeting. Tim> I think it's worth revisiting having in person meetings.. At some Tim> point here in the near future a majority of us are going to be Tim> vaccinated. I'll reach out to Kevin (if he's not already reading Tim> this!) and see what Technopia's policies are going to Tim> be. Whatever we do, I think we've all agreed it makes sense to Tim> keep the virtual component going as well. To that point, I'll be Tim> getting my second shot on Tuesday so I might be not feeling Tim> great, we'll see. I've been meaning/wanting to visit Technopia and to even join so as to have a place to go where I can be around other motivated people and work on my Phd (Projects Half Done) stuff. Plus there's good places around there for food afterwards. Heck, in another year or so it might be fun to do a wlug woo-sox game meeting.

May 7, 2021

Re: Reminder! Meeting Next Week on May 13th 2021!

by Jon "maddog" Hall

Tim, For what it is worth I got my second Pfizer shot February 27th. On March 11th I flew to Miami, Florida for an IPO of Digital Ocean (a friend of mine is a founder), directly into the middle of maskless College idiots doing spring break (I wore a mask and practiced social distancing as well as getting my first two tests for COVID). Two weeks later I flew to Rio de Janeiro for a month (business meetings and to see my husband for the first time in a year). I feel safe in going to indoor restaurants (I still wear my mask when not actively eating and drinking. I trust in medicine, science and statistics, and I feel like Superman. So I would support in-person meetings for vaccinated people, particularly if masks are used. md On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 10:04 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey Gang! > > We've got a meeting on May 13th! > > For topics, there's a whole lot to talk about! Obviously the UMN stuff, as > well as the x86 decoder fun. > > I think it's worth revisiting having in person meetings.. At some point > here in the near future a majority of us are going to be vaccinated. I'll > reach out to Kevin (if he's not already reading this!) and see what > Technopia's policies are going to be. Whatever we do, I think we've all > agreed it makes sense to keep the virtual component going as well. To that > point, I'll be getting my second shot on Tuesday so I might be not feeling > great, we'll see. > > What do people think? > > Later, > Tim. > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DWVD6… >

May 6, 2021

Reminder! Meeting Next Week on May 13th 2021!

by Tim Keller

Hey Gang! We've got a meeting on May 13th! For topics, there's a whole lot to talk about! Obviously the UMN stuff, as well as the x86 decoder fun. I think it's worth revisiting having in person meetings.. At some point here in the near future a majority of us are going to be vaccinated. I'll reach out to Kevin (if he's not already reading this!) and see what Technopia's policies are going to be. Whatever we do, I think we've all agreed it makes sense to keep the virtual component going as well. To that point, I'll be getting my second shot on Tuesday so I might be not feeling great, we'll see. What do people think? Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

May 6, 2021

Re: Fedora 34 is officially out today

by JeffA Maillists

Maybe it's time that I upgraded my Fedora 14 system... LOL! (PS: Don't get too bent out of shape, it's my old MythTV PVR system that I haven't used/powered on in 4+ years, LOL!) Jeff On Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 2:47 PM joshua.gage.stone--- via WLUG < wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey everyone! > > Fedora 34 is officially out today, and it has a number of new features! > Features include: > > - Updating to Gnome 40 > (https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/40.0/) > - Switching from Pulseaudio to Pipewire > ( > https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pipewire/pipewire/-/wikis/FAQ#how-is-pipewir… > ) > - Switching from earlyoomd to systemd-oomd for handling out-of-memory > situations > - Enabled transparent zstd compression in btrfs > ( > https://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-workstation-34-feature-focus-btrfs-transp… > ) > - Enabling Harfbuzz in FreeType for improved font rendering > - KDE using Wayland by default instead of X11 > > https://fedoramagazine.org/whats-new-in-fedora-workstation-34/ > > > You can try it out today here: > > https://getfedora.org/en/workstation/download/ > > Or try the various different spins here: > > https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/34/ > > - Josh > > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/IX6QA… >

April 27, 2021

Fedora 34 is officially out today

by joshua.gage.stone＠gmail.com

Hey everyone! Fedora 34 is officially out today, and it has a number of new features! Features include: - Updating to Gnome 40 (https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/40.0/) - Switching from Pulseaudio to Pipewire (https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pipewire/pipewire/-/wikis/FAQ#how-is-pipewir…) - Switching from earlyoomd to systemd-oomd for handling out-of-memory situations - Enabled transparent zstd compression in btrfs (https://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-workstation-34-feature-focus-btrfs-transp…) - Enabling Harfbuzz in FreeType for improved font rendering - KDE using Wayland by default instead of X11 https://fedoramagazine.org/whats-new-in-fedora-workstation-34/ You can try it out today here: https://getfedora.org/en/workstation/download/ Or try the various different spins here: https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/34/ - Josh

April 27, 2021

Re: Zeek - from yesterday's meeting

by Eric Martin

> On Apr 13, 2021, at 4:26 PM, Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 09:16:10AM -0400, John Stoffel via WLUG wrote: >> Now that I have zeek up and running... what's the best tool/process >> for viewing the data? Looking at the hourly emailed logs is sorta >> interesting, but honestly not a great way to see trends over time. > > I know people use $$$$$plunk (Splunk) for that sort of thing. Perhaps > ELK (Elasticsearch, Logstash, and Kibana) would work. Oh look, > someone has a recipe for how to do that: > > https://logz.io/blog/bro-elk-part-1/ I am one of the $plunk users. Their free tier is fine, though it has less features (authentication being one of them) so I’d put something in front of it. The Splunk Zeek app is really good; if you go the Splunk route let me know. > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/SXYJZ…

April 13, 2021

Re: Zeek - from yesterday's meeting

by Chuck Anderson

On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 09:16:10AM -0400, John Stoffel via WLUG wrote: > Now that I have zeek up and running... what's the best tool/process > for viewing the data? Looking at the hourly emailed logs is sorta > interesting, but honestly not a great way to see trends over time. I know people use $$$$$plunk (Splunk) for that sort of thing. Perhaps ELK (Elasticsearch, Logstash, and Kibana) would work. Oh look, someone has a recipe for how to do that: https://logz.io/blog/bro-elk-part-1/

April 13, 2021

Re: Zeek - from yesterday's meeting

by John Stoffel

Guys, Now that I have zeek up and running... what's the best tool/process for viewing the data? Looking at the hourly emailed logs is sorta interesting, but honestly not a great way to see trends over time. I've looked over the zeek.org website, and there's no real discussion there on how to summarize and get a good high level view of what's going on. Even just a daily report would be better, I think. So what I'm doing is setting up my core switch to mirror all the traffic between the switch and the router, while I also have the zeek box on another port on the switch for management. This seems to be working well so far, it's seeing all my traffic to/from the internet and the various devices connected. Cheers, John

April 13, 2021

Re: Zeek - from yesterday's meeting

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Jon" == Jon \"maddog\" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> writes: >> You missed a fun meeting last night. Jon> I am sure I did. Unfortunately I am in Rio de Janeiro and was Jon> tied up with another meeting. Have a great time down there. Brazil is definitely on my list of places to visit some day. Along with Argentina, Chile, Peru.... lots of places in the world to see still.

April 10, 2021

Re: Zeek - from yesterday's meeting

by Jon "maddog" Hall

>You missed a fun meeting last night. I am sure I did. Unfortunately I am in Rio de Janeiro and was tied up with another meeting. Warmest regards, maddog On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 7:21 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: > >>>>> "Jon" == Jon \"maddog\" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> writes: > > Jon> From time to time I used a USB Ethernet port: > Jon> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/shop/usb-to-ethernet-adapter > > I used to have one of those kicking around, but for now I'm going to > go with the APU2 dedicated hardware box, it should have enough oomph > once I get Debian Buster (10.10) installed on it. > > Jon> Generally they are about 25 USD. You might be able to find them > Jon> on Ebay or other places for less than that. You might as well > Jon> get a USB 3.0, since it will work with USB 2.0 ports, but USB 2.0 > Jon> will not support 1 Gbit/second, whereas USB 3.0 will. On the > Jon> other hand if the networking flow is not 1 Gbit/second then USB > Jon> 2.0 might work fine. > > Jon> I have found the Linux support for these generic USB Ethernet > Jon> devices to be generally good. > > Thanks for the feedback! You missed a fun meeting last night. > > Jon> md > > Jon> On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 5:09 PM John Stoffel via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Jon> Guys, > Jon> I'm looking into Zeek and unfortunately I don't have a second > ethernet > Jon> port on my main system, so it's not clear how I'd run a span port > off > Jon> my main switch to grab traffic. > > Jon> What hardware do people recommend for a zeek data collection > node? I > Jon> guess I could spin up my old WRAP board (http://www.pcengines.ch) > Jon> which I used as my main router for years before I replaced it > Jon> recently. But it's not super fast. It's got three 1gb ports, and > 4gb > Jon> of RAM with a 1Ghz single core AMD CPU. So it might do the job, > esp > Jon> since I can install Debian Buster on there without too much > trouble. > Jon> Sweet! > > Jon> John > Jon> _______________________________________________ > Jon> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > Jon> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Jon> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Jon> Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Jon> Web Forum/Archive: > Jon> > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/HCS2L… > >

April 9, 2021

Re: Zeek - from yesterday's meeting

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Jon" == Jon \"maddog\" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> writes: Jon> From time to time I used a USB Ethernet port: Jon> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/shop/usb-to-ethernet-adapter I used to have one of those kicking around, but for now I'm going to go with the APU2 dedicated hardware box, it should have enough oomph once I get Debian Buster (10.10) installed on it. Jon> Generally they are about 25 USD. You might be able to find them Jon> on Ebay or other places for less than that. You might as well Jon> get a USB 3.0, since it will work with USB 2.0 ports, but USB 2.0 Jon> will not support 1 Gbit/second, whereas USB 3.0 will. On the Jon> other hand if the networking flow is not 1 Gbit/second then USB Jon> 2.0 might work fine. Jon> I have found the Linux support for these generic USB Ethernet Jon> devices to be generally good. Thanks for the feedback! You missed a fun meeting last night. Jon> md Jon> On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 5:09 PM John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: Jon> Guys, Jon> I'm looking into Zeek and unfortunately I don't have a second ethernet Jon> port on my main system, so it's not clear how I'd run a span port off Jon> my main switch to grab traffic. Jon> What hardware do people recommend for a zeek data collection node? I Jon> guess I could spin up my old WRAP board (http://www.pcengines.ch) Jon> which I used as my main router for years before I replaced it Jon> recently. But it's not super fast. It's got three 1gb ports, and 4gb Jon> of RAM with a 1Ghz single core AMD CPU. So it might do the job, esp Jon> since I can install Debian Buster on there without too much trouble. Jon> Sweet! Jon> John Jon> _______________________________________________ Jon> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org Jon> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Jon> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Jon> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Jon> Web Forum/Archive: Jon> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/HCS2L…

April 9, 2021

Re: Zeek - from yesterday's meeting

by Jon "maddog" Hall

From time to time I used a USB Ethernet port: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/shop/usb-to-ethernet-adapter Generally they are about 25 USD. You might be able to find them on Ebay or other places for less than that. You might as well get a USB 3.0, since it will work with USB 2.0 ports, but USB 2.0 will not support 1 Gbit/second, whereas USB 3.0 will. On the other hand if the networking flow is not 1 Gbit/second then USB 2.0 might work fine. I have found the Linux support for these generic USB Ethernet devices to be generally good. md On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 5:09 PM John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Guys, > I'm looking into Zeek and unfortunately I don't have a second ethernet > port on my main system, so it's not clear how I'd run a span port off > my main switch to grab traffic. > > What hardware do people recommend for a zeek data collection node? I > guess I could spin up my old WRAP board (http://www.pcengines.ch) > which I used as my main router for years before I replaced it > recently. But it's not super fast. It's got three 1gb ports, and 4gb > of RAM with a 1Ghz single core AMD CPU. So it might do the job, esp > since I can install Debian Buster on there without too much trouble. > Sweet! > > John > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/HCS2L… >

April 9, 2021

Zeek - from yesterday's meeting

by John Stoffel

Guys, I'm looking into Zeek and unfortunately I don't have a second ethernet port on my main system, so it's not clear how I'd run a span port off my main switch to grab traffic. What hardware do people recommend for a zeek data collection node? I guess I could spin up my old WRAP board (http://www.pcengines.ch) which I used as my main router for years before I replaced it recently. But it's not super fast. It's got three 1gb ports, and 4gb of RAM with a 1Ghz single core AMD CPU. So it might do the job, esp since I can install Debian Buster on there without too much trouble. Sweet! John

April 9, 2021

Reminder! We've got a meeting this Thursday (April 8th, 2021!)

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody, This is a reminder that we have a meeting on April 8th, 2021. Same bat time, same bat channel Date: April 8th, 2021 7pm: Jitsi @ https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Topic: As of yet, there's no topic for the meeting, however, there's a ton to talk about none the less! The PHP git server hack, the OpenSSL vulnerabilities, turns out the spectre mitigations can be mitigated? I'm sure more stuff will come up as well.. As usual drinks and refreshments aren't being provided as this is a virtual meeting.. But soon.. so soon I hope we'll all be able to get together safely. Thanks for being patient and coming to the meetings, I appreciate it. Tim.

April 5, 2021

Re: WLUG history - Doug Waud's Home Networking slide deck found!

by Doug Mildram

I read the first dozen+ slides ( real good wording/intro I'd say!) ..then ADD-like, surfed later slides and found a minor gem in slide30 so I'll type it back here if I may, just for fun : (Networking) Addressing and Networks (review exam :) What address/addresses represent a network and which a host (assume a netmask of 255.255.255.0) a) 192.168.1.35 b) 192.168.7.12 c) 192.168.3.0 d) 192.168.0.255 e) 192.168.0.0 ANSWER: ( network: c,e ) ( host: a,b ) d) is neither, it is the broadcast address for network e Notice how it is natural to refer to that network by its addr 192.168.0.0 Incidentally, that term "host". It simply means computer. You run into it alot when you are setting up ip addresses. (end of slide 30). ============== dmildram,static> those were the days. Mask? What Mask? I'm gonna need one, once networked? -Host On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 12:16 PM Chuck Anderson via WLUG < wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 08:11:20AM -0500, Andy Stewart wrote: > > I remember a talk that Doug Waud gave about computer networking. His > first > > example of a network was a string with a cup at either end. > > Over a year ago when this discussion started, I saw Andy's comment > above about Doug Waud's home networking talk. I remember the talk > fondly, with the slides containing many humorous pictures of tin cans > and string. The WLUG website had a link to Doug's slide deck, but it > was a broken link to http://www.townisp.com/~dougwaud/homenet.htm. I > spent hours looking for a backup of the slides on my systems and on > the Wayback Machine (archive.org) I even contacted TownISP's support > to see if they had a backup of users' old websites, to no avail. So I > gave up and never mentioned it at the time. > > Well guess what...fast forward to today...I was looking for something > unrelated and stumbled upon a backup of my long gone Sun Ultra 10 > system that ran Aurora Linux (a rebuild of Red Hat/Fedora), and in > there I found a copy of the slide deck! > > So I updated the WLUG website's Archive section [1] with the slides: > > Home Networking (March 2001) > > Presented by Doug Waud. Written by Doug Waud, Chuck Anderson, and Stephen > Daukas. > > You may view the online presentation [2] at your leisure, or you may > download the HTML [3] or the download the original StarOffice slide deck > [4]. > > [1] http://www.wlug.org/archives.html > [2] http://www.wlug.org/files/homenet/html/networking.html > [3] http://www.wlug.org/files/homenet/homenet.tgz > [4] http://www.wlug.org/files/homenet/networking.sdd > > Enjoy! > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/EJJT5… >

March 13, 2021

Re: WLUG history - Doug Waud's Home Networking slide deck found!

by Keith Wright

Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 08:11:20AM -0500, Andy Stewart wrote: >> I remember a talk that Doug Waud gave about computer networking. >> His first example of a network was a string with a cup at either end. > > Over a year ago when this discussion started, I saw Andy's comment > above about Doug Waud's home networking talk. I remember the talk > fondly, with the slides containing many humorous pictures of tin cans > and string. I was surprised that I did not remember this talk. I thought I had been to every WLUG meeting back then. Memories fade. I am trying to remember when I went to Mexico...I am pretty sure I was there several times. At the time I was sure I would remember every detail forever, but now I can't recall what year it was. It might have been 2001. > So I updated the WLUG website's Archive section [1] with the slides: > Home Networking (March 2001) Great job of cyber-archeology! I checked it out. It's 80 slides!! That's not a talk; It's at least four talks. I could not have forgotten all that---must not have been there. It's already proven useful in a way redeems WLUG. After moving ethernet cables around to do jit.sw/WlugMA last Thursday, I discovered I had broken another one of those stupid little plastic latch pins on the end plug. I bought a bag of a dozen at Stark electronics about the time of Doug's talk two decades ago. I am down to just three of them. Stark is long gone; where can I get more? I thought of Google, but I could not remember what the plugs were called. After paging quickly through a few slides, there was the answer! They are called RJ-45 plugs and you can buy them through Amazon. They come in bags of 100, which is excessive, but not too expensive; ($10-15). I suppose I will get a bag. That's more than a liftime supply. In a couple more decades you will be able to pick up about 90 of them _real_ cheap at the estate sale, or free from the dumpster. -- Keith

March 13, 2021

Re: WLUG history - Doug Waud's Home Networking slide deck found!

by Chuck Anderson

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 08:11:20AM -0500, Andy Stewart wrote: > I remember a talk that Doug Waud gave about computer networking. His first > example of a network was a string with a cup at either end. Over a year ago when this discussion started, I saw Andy's comment above about Doug Waud's home networking talk. I remember the talk fondly, with the slides containing many humorous pictures of tin cans and string. The WLUG website had a link to Doug's slide deck, but it was a broken link to http://www.townisp.com/~dougwaud/homenet.htm. I spent hours looking for a backup of the slides on my systems and on the Wayback Machine (archive.org) I even contacted TownISP's support to see if they had a backup of users' old websites, to no avail. So I gave up and never mentioned it at the time. Well guess what...fast forward to today...I was looking for something unrelated and stumbled upon a backup of my long gone Sun Ultra 10 system that ran Aurora Linux (a rebuild of Red Hat/Fedora), and in there I found a copy of the slide deck! So I updated the WLUG website's Archive section [1] with the slides: Home Networking (March 2001) Presented by Doug Waud. Written by Doug Waud, Chuck Anderson, and Stephen Daukas. You may view the online presentation [2] at your leisure, or you may download the HTML [3] or the download the original StarOffice slide deck [4]. [1] http://www.wlug.org/archives.html [2] http://www.wlug.org/files/homenet/html/networking.html [3] http://www.wlug.org/files/homenet/homenet.tgz [4] http://www.wlug.org/files/homenet/networking.sdd Enjoy!

March 13, 2021

Reminder! Meeting March 11th, 2021!! Topic: Random Linux stuff!!

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody, It's that time of month again! yeah, we're still remote, but soon... maybe soon we won't be!!! Date: March 11th, 2021 Time: 7PM Location: Jitsi @ https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Topic: The usual random smattering of fun stuff. I'm sure we'll talk about the massive exchange hack.. the OVH fire and much more.. fully expect us to fall down various rabbit holes. As usual, snacks and refreshments won't be provided and we won't be going out for dinner afterwards. I hope to see you there! Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

March 10, 2021

Linux video edit SW : OpenShot is cool ! and.... AppImages

by Doug Mildram

doug> Pardon my non-meeting-attendance all but 1? month since 2020...anyways, (new fun thing or things I got to learn, below) Mostly this email is a Fun/FYI, but I suspect OpenShot could be popular and maybe some of you use it,etc and maybe even one/some of you are dabbling,etc at video editing. Myself, barely so far. TMI Since a friend (for sister's anniversary) wanted to create a slideshow+music ( MP4, say ) I discovered how easy that is on Linux lately (googling offers ~10 or Top Ten choices of SW). And since I put linux on this friend's desktop, it's a great match and way to teach/learn. (gawd, these life-story-in-pictures quests sure can make a camera-bound picture owner/taker have to cope w their mess of jpegs in cellphone) DRUM ROLL: I only tried one offering for video editing, and scored. .......................chose one that some review(s?) said is most user friendly. It (OpenShot) seems great, for my too-simple needs (slideshow of static pics, adding music/mp3) and can obviously do so much more. Output and input choices have huge lists (eg AVI,MP4 variants,etc for output..... you generate/export to). SO ANOTHER THING i learned doing this is: There's a release/package thing I wasnt aware of ... ....seems a too-easy alternate, in favor of pkgs/release-dependent installs/updates. IT IS CALLED an App Image and it really appears to me to be THIS SIMPLE: a) You download one big file, eg for OpenShot a 130-140mb one-executable file that they name OpenShot-v2.5.1-x86_64.AppImage , you can get from https://www.openshot.org/download/ .....which says......... b) AppImage requires no installation. Just download, make executable, and run. doug> Correct, it doesn't unzip anything, and the one executable "fits all". Wow! I will admit that (on my Mint desktop) the first time I run it (as me/plain-user), the GUI intro/setup dialog/window does ask me Yes/No ? for some question about creating something for?on? the Desktop, and I said YES and I did not get anything added to my ~/Desktop. But who cares? More fun anyways to launch it from a terminal and watch the stdout as you run the GUI. p.s. it DOES save PROJECT (not output/export result, but your per-video project setups) in your linux homedir under ~/.openshot_qt/ ...mine looks like: doug0@host:IN_MY_HOMEDIR:~$ ll .openshot_qt/ drwxrwxr-x 2 doug0 doug0 4096 Feb 27 14:23 transitions drwxrwxr-x 2 doug0 doug0 4096 Feb 27 14:23 profiles drwxrwxr-x 2 doug0 doug0 4096 Feb 27 14:23 preview-cache drwxrwxr-x 2 doug0 doug0 4096 Feb 27 14:23 presets drwxrwxr-x 2 doug0 doug0 4096 Feb 27 14:23 assets drwxrwxr-x 2 doug0 doug0 4096 Feb 27 15:17 cache -rw-rw-r-- 1 doug0 doug0 1453 Feb 27 15:57 libopenshot.log drwxrwxr-x 2 doug0 doug0 4096 Feb 27 15:57 title drwxrwxr-x 2 doug0 doug0 4096 Feb 27 15:57 thumbnail drwxrwxr-x 2 doug0 doug0 4096 Feb 27 15:57 blender drwxr-xr-x 30 doug0 doug0 4096 Feb 28 10:15 .. drwxrwxr-x 2 doug0 doug0 4096 Feb 28 10:39 recovery drwxrwxr-x 12 doug0 doug0 4096 Feb 28 10:43 . -rw-rw-r-- 1 doug0 doug0 17352 Feb 28 10:43 openshot.settings -rw-rw-r-- 1 doug0 doug0 1774732 Feb 28 10:43 openshot-qt.log Around 4mb of setup for (so far my only) 66mb MP4 mini-video of PICS w/ 6min of music, the MP4 I exported elsewhere. ( the above HIDDEN dir is a bit of a secret to ignore. ) "Transitions" is a cool feature of the software. ----- I miss the braintrust of you, my friends...my own fault for retiring,moving,etc. -doug (how clueless am I for not knowing about some open SW released w/ AppImage until now?)

Feb. 28, 2021

Re: Reminder! Virtual Meeting Tonight!! 7PM via Jitsi!

by Jon "maddog" Hall

Daryll who? >On April 9, 2010 McBride purchased the SCO Mobility intellectual property from The SCO Group for $100,000. Imagine paying 100,000 USD in 2010 for something that was proven to be worth nothing. Even the name "SCO" is so tarnished after what McBride and his cohorts did that it is worth nothing. On a related note, I made contact with Doug Michels, one of the founders of the original Santa Cruz Operations. Doug is a good guy and I worked with him for years during the heady days of the "Common Desktop Environment". In 1997 Doug was on the board of Uniforum and insisted that Linus Torvalds get a lifetime achievement award at the tender age of 28. md On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 12:50 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey Gang, > > We've got a meeting tonight at 7PM! > > Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > > Topic: I think the Itanium thing got beat to death, but we can still talk > about it. > Apparently there's still a pa-risc port of linux kicking around? Now I > want to run it as a VM! > > Daryl McBride (SCO asshole) just fired for Chapter 13 so we can laugh at > his expense. > > I'm sure there'll be some 3d printer talk, some Pi PICO chatter, plus > whatever else. > > Later, > Tim. > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/HYKKY… >

Feb. 19, 2021

Reminder! Virtual Meeting Tonight!! 7PM via Jitsi!

by Tim Keller

Hey Gang, We've got a meeting tonight at 7PM! Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Topic: I think the Itanium thing got beat to death, but we can still talk about it. Apparently there's still a pa-risc port of linux kicking around? Now I want to run it as a VM! Daryl McBride (SCO asshole) just fired for Chapter 13 so we can laugh at his expense. I'm sure there'll be some 3d printer talk, some Pi PICO chatter, plus whatever else. Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Feb. 11, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Keith Wright

"Robert N. Evans via WLUG" <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > That is not what I see when I query one of the major name servers. > I would guess your server is configured differently... Yes, know it's configured differently. On purpose. I have configured it _not_ to waste time answering stupid questions from random bots. If you want to know the address of isc.org, ask a major name server. My server is for answering questions about _my_ names. It needs to answer queries about keithdiane.us and free-comp-shop.com, for which it is authoritative, which means the major name servers get their info about those names from _here_. I would like to configure it to totally ignore such stupid requests, instead it seems to be answering with the best data it has in its cache. That turns out to be the most verbose yet useless information imaginable---a list of all the root name servers on the internet! -- Keith PS: Don't use my list. It's probably obsolete.

Feb. 11, 2021

WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Chuck Anderson

Correct, Keith's server is not configured to current best security practices. His server has what is called "upward referrals" turned on. https://www.dns-oarc.net/oarc/articles/upward-referrals-considered-harmful I believe what you want at a minimum is: additional-from-cache no; Also, it sounds like you are using your DNS server for two functions: caching for internal clients, and authoritative for your domain name(s). If so you probably should isolate both functions: "If your nameserver is both authoritative and caching, you really should separate the two functions. Caching nameservers are susceptible to poisoning and other types of attacks. You don't necessarily need separate hardware for each. You might need to use separate IP addresses, or possibly configure the authoritative nameserver to use an external address while the caching nameserver uses an internal address." See also: https://kb.isc.org/docs/bind-best-practices-authoritative and: https://kb.isc.org/docs/bind-best-practices-recursive On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 10:08:21AM -0500, Robert N. Evans via WLUG wrote: > That is not what I see when I query one of the major name servers. I would guess your server is configured differently... > > rne@P5:~$ dig @1.1.1.1 isc.org > > ; <<>> DiG 9.16.1-Ubuntu <<>> @1.1.1.1 isc.org > ; (1 server found) > ;; global options: +cmd > ;; Got answer: > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 31866 > ;; flags: qr rd ra ad; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1 > > ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: > ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 1232 > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > ;isc.org. IN A > > ;; ANSWER SECTION: > isc.org. 9 IN A 149.20.1.66 > > ;; Query time: 24 msec > ;; SERVER: 1.1.1.1#53(1.1.1.1) > ;; WHEN: Thu Feb 11 10:03:30 EST 2021 > ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 52 > > > -BE > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > >Sent: Feb 11, 2021 1:04 AM > >To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > >Cc: wlug(a)lists.wlug.org, Andre.Lehovich(a)gmx.com, Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us> > >Subject: [WLUG] Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question! > > > >Andre Lehovich via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > >>> dig @66.92.74.188 isc.org > >> > >> Here you go, hope it's useful... > > > >Thank you. That's a lot of information. > > > >> quetzal:~ al$ dig @66.92.74.188 isc.org > >> > >> ; <<>> DiG 9.10.6 <<>> @66.92.74.188 isc.org > >> ; (1 server found) > >> ;; global options: +cmd > >> ;; Got answer: > >> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 11995 > >> ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 13, ADDITIONAL: 27 > >> ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available > > ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ > >That looks good. > >I don't want to be doing recursion for you (nothing personal). > > > >But where did all the rest of that come from? > >I've never seen anything like that! > >Did my server send all that? Why?? > > > >> ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: > >> ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 4096 > >> ;; QUESTION SECTION: > >> ;isc.org. IN A > >> > >> ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: > >> . 348191 IN NS c.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS d.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS e.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS f.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS g.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS h.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS i.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS j.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS k.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS l.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS m.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS a.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS b.root-servers.net. > >> > >> ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: > >> a.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 198.41.0.4 > >> a.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:503:ba3e::2:30 > >> b.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.9.14.201 > >> b.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:200::b > >> c.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.33.4.12 > >> c.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2::c > >> d.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.7.91.13 > >> d.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2d::d > >> e.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.203.230.10 > >> e.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:a8::e > >> f.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.5.5.241 > >> f.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2f::f > >> g.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.112.36.4 > >> g.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:12::d0d > >> h.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 198.97.190.53 > >> h.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:1::53 > >> i.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.36.148.17 > >> i.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:7fe::53 > >> j.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.58.128.30 > >> j.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:503:c27::2:30 > >> k.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 193.0.14.129 > >> k.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:7fd::1 > >> l.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.7.83.42 > >> l.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:9f::42 > >> m.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 202.12.27.33 > >> m.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:dc3::35 > >> > >> ;; Query time: 150 msec > >> ;; SERVER: 66.92.74.188#53(66.92.74.188) > >> ;; WHEN: Wed Feb 10 20:31:08 PST 2021 > >> ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 819

Feb. 11, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Robert N. Evans

That is not what I see when I query one of the major name servers. I would guess your server is configured differently... rne@P5:~$ dig @1.1.1.1 isc.org ; <<>> DiG 9.16.1-Ubuntu <<>> @1.1.1.1 isc.org ; (1 server found) ;; global options: +cmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 31866 ;; flags: qr rd ra ad; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1 ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 1232 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;isc.org. IN A ;; ANSWER SECTION: isc.org. 9 IN A 149.20.1.66 ;; Query time: 24 msec ;; SERVER: 1.1.1.1#53(1.1.1.1) ;; WHEN: Thu Feb 11 10:03:30 EST 2021 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 52 -BE -----Original Message----- >From: Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >Sent: Feb 11, 2021 1:04 AM >To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >Cc: wlug(a)lists.wlug.org, Andre.Lehovich(a)gmx.com, Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us> >Subject: [WLUG] Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question! > >Andre Lehovich via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > >>> dig @66.92.74.188 isc.org >> >> Here you go, hope it's useful... > >Thank you. That's a lot of information. > >> quetzal:~ al$ dig @66.92.74.188 isc.org >> >> ; <<>> DiG 9.10.6 <<>> @66.92.74.188 isc.org >> ; (1 server found) >> ;; global options: +cmd >> ;; Got answer: >> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 11995 >> ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 13, ADDITIONAL: 27 >> ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available > ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ >That looks good. >I don't want to be doing recursion for you (nothing personal). > >But where did all the rest of that come from? >I've never seen anything like that! >Did my server send all that? Why?? > >> ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: >> ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 4096 >> ;; QUESTION SECTION: >> ;isc.org. IN A >> >> ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: >> . 348191 IN NS c.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS d.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS e.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS f.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS g.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS h.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS i.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS j.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS k.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS l.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS m.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS a.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS b.root-servers.net. >> >> ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: >> a.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 198.41.0.4 >> a.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:503:ba3e::2:30 >> b.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.9.14.201 >> b.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:200::b >> c.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.33.4.12 >> c.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2::c >> d.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.7.91.13 >> d.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2d::d >> e.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.203.230.10 >> e.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:a8::e >> f.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.5.5.241 >> f.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2f::f >> g.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.112.36.4 >> g.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:12::d0d >> h.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 198.97.190.53 >> h.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:1::53 >> i.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.36.148.17 >> i.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:7fe::53 >> j.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.58.128.30 >> j.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:503:c27::2:30 >> k.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 193.0.14.129 >> k.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:7fd::1 >> l.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.7.83.42 >> l.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:9f::42 >> m.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 202.12.27.33 >> m.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:dc3::35 >> >> ;; Query time: 150 msec >> ;; SERVER: 66.92.74.188#53(66.92.74.188) >> ;; WHEN: Wed Feb 10 20:31:08 PST 2021 >> ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 819 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/JBBKO… >_______________________________________________ >WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/2A6P2…

Feb. 11, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Keith Wright

Andre Lehovich via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> dig @66.92.74.188 isc.org > > Here you go, hope it's useful... Thank you. That's a lot of information. > quetzal:~ al$ dig @66.92.74.188 isc.org > > ; <<>> DiG 9.10.6 <<>> @66.92.74.188 isc.org > ; (1 server found) > ;; global options: +cmd > ;; Got answer: > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 11995 > ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 13, ADDITIONAL: 27 > ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ That looks good. I don't want to be doing recursion for you (nothing personal). But where did all the rest of that come from? I've never seen anything like that! Did my server send all that? Why?? > ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: > ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 4096 > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > ;isc.org. IN A > > ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: > . 348191 IN NS c.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS d.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS e.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS f.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS g.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS h.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS i.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS j.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS k.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS l.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS m.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS a.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS b.root-servers.net. > > ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: > a.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 198.41.0.4 > a.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:503:ba3e::2:30 > b.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.9.14.201 > b.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:200::b > c.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.33.4.12 > c.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2::c > d.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.7.91.13 > d.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2d::d > e.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.203.230.10 > e.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:a8::e > f.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.5.5.241 > f.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2f::f > g.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.112.36.4 > g.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:12::d0d > h.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 198.97.190.53 > h.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:1::53 > i.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.36.148.17 > i.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:7fe::53 > j.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.58.128.30 > j.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:503:c27::2:30 > k.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 193.0.14.129 > k.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:7fd::1 > l.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.7.83.42 > l.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:9f::42 > m.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 202.12.27.33 > m.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:dc3::35 > > ;; Query time: 150 msec > ;; SERVER: 66.92.74.188#53(66.92.74.188) > ;; WHEN: Wed Feb 10 20:31:08 PST 2021 > ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 819 > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/JBBKO…

Feb. 11, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Andre Lehovich

> dig @66.92.74.188 isc.org Here you go, hope it's useful... quetzal:~ al$ dig @66.92.74.188 isc.org ; <<>> DiG 9.10.6 <<>> @66.92.74.188 isc.org ; (1 server found) ;; global options: +cmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 11995 ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 13, ADDITIONAL: 27 ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 4096 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;isc.org. IN A ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: . 348191 IN NS c.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS d.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS e.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS f.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS g.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS h.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS i.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS j.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS k.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS l.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS m.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS a.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS b.root-servers.net. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: a.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 198.41.0.4 a.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:503:ba3e::2:30 b.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.9.14.201 b.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:200::b c.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.33.4.12 c.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2::c d.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.7.91.13 d.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2d::d e.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.203.230.10 e.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:a8::e f.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.5.5.241 f.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2f::f g.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.112.36.4 g.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:12::d0d h.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 198.97.190.53 h.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:1::53 i.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.36.148.17 i.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:7fe::53 j.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.58.128.30 j.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:503:c27::2:30 k.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 193.0.14.129 k.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:7fd::1 l.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.7.83.42 l.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:9f::42 m.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 202.12.27.33 m.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:dc3::35 ;; Query time: 150 msec ;; SERVER: 66.92.74.188#53(66.92.74.188) ;; WHEN: Wed Feb 10 20:31:08 PST 2021 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 819

Feb. 11, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Keith Wright

I hope to make it. I'll have to borrow Diane's laptop. My Linux laptop makes a fine computer, but a bad television It says "Topic: Good question!" So here's my good question: I run a name server (DNS). A few days ago it started getting abut 100 requests/min from many different IP addresses all for isc.org. Why are they asking me? I believe I have it set up so that queries from inside the house are so-called "recurive"--- it searches the internet for an answer, but queries from outside are anwered only with info it already has. I am not sure if that means it only answer queries for which it authoritative, or if it also anwers if it has the data cached. I would like it to just blow off any queries for which it is not authoritative. Tell where to send mail for @keithdiane.us and not even answer otherwise. It is remarkably difficult to get it to put replies into the log file, even if it is logging the queries. Could somebody run the following and tell me the results? dig @66.92.74.188 isc.org (that's my IP address) -- Keith

Feb. 11, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Robert N. Evans

I don't want to join the endian wars. So I'll comment on something else. Stratus did not support Itanium because they follow rather than lead the market. When a replacement for PA-RISC was considered at Stratus we did look at Itanium. I recall studying the FW then called "EFI" around 2003 when I was in the VOS group. For the in-house VOS OS, Stratus would need compilers for PL/I and C and a modified linker to get to Itanium. Stratus never made this investment. What the VOS group did was to port to x86. Today VOS is still a 32-bit OS that runs on Motorola 68K, i860, PA-RISC and x86. This is unlikely to ever change for VOS as the compiler and linker tech leads have left Stratus. For the other three OS's supported by Stratus, Windows, Linux, VMware ESX, outsiders, not Stratus, would or would not be porting their OS to Itanium. (As was the case for amd64). Since the Stratus value add is to take applications coded to run on commodity HW and make the apps highly reliable by running on Stratus HW, Stratus would not move to Itanium until the customers already were developing to that platform. -- One more comment on a different topic: > >I personally play around with ATTiny85 and ATTiny84 MCUs when I get a >chance. Slowly looking at STM8 and STM32 stuff as well. And of >course the Arduino AVR stuff. > Me too, but somewhat bigger/faster MCUs. I still occasionally code in C, but it is more productive with high level interpreted languages on these chips. Lately I'm very excited about esp8266 and CircuitPython. FYI, A programmer's intro to esp8266: https://tttapa.github.io/ESP8266/Chap01%20-%20ESP8266.html -BE

Feb. 5, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jon "maddog" Hall

John, I read what Linus wrote and I think the most important paragraph is the last two. This "deficiency" in the Alpha design was not that consequential to anyone but a very small number of people, and still allowed the Alpha to be the world's fastest microprocessor for (if I remember correctly) eight years in a row according to the Guinness Book of Records. As to the little vs big endian issues, the worst part was in reading undefined data across the network. What do I mean by "undefined data"? o The union statement in "C" o The equivalence statement in FORTRAN o The Linkage section in Cobol All statements that allow you to write the same data looking at it in different ways. If you write out a "block" of Integers into a file, there is no way that a system reading that file some time later could tell if those integers were written by a little endian system or a big endian system, so the Integers would be read incorrectly. NFS made it worse....much worse, but it was bad before NFS. md On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 5:37 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: > >>>>> "Jon" == Jon \"maddog\" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> writes: > > Jon> John, > >> Yes, but I don't properly recall if the Itanium design was started > >> before AMD64 came or as a reaction to the AMD64. Haven't done any > >> research for the real timelines. > > Jon> Two single-line searches found that the Itanium was launched in > Jon> 2001 and the AMD x64 was launched in 2003. > > Been neck deep in SFLT tape restore wrangling today. Whee!!! > > >> It's a shame the Alpha architecture didn't make it, even though it did > >> have some bad design decisions inside it's ISA and internal > >> architecture. It was still a pretty nice and clean 64-bit design. As > >> I recall, it's mostly the memory ordering around byte accesses that > >> are the problem. > > Jon> This is the first I have heard of these bad decisions. Would you > care to elaborate? > > It's in regards to memory ordering. See this LKML post by Linus on > the topic. This is what I'm talking about mostly. > > https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/2/1/521 > > > Jon> The memory ordering around byte accesses might have been because > Jon> the Alpha was designed to be both little endian and big endian. > Jon> So were the MIPS chips. While many vendors supported only big > Jon> endian (Motorola, SPARC, etc.) DEC had been supporting little > Jon> endian in their PDP-11s, VAX, MIPS and Alphas for data > Jon> compatibility. DEC supported little endian because it was > Jon> cheaper electronically to have the data held in that fashion. > > Very much could be that is the reason. I don't know. > > Jon> Sun made much fun of DEC for years having Unix systems that were > Jon> little endian instead of big endian like "real workstations". I > Jon> kept asking them about these "Intel things" which were little > Jon> endian too. Sun sneered at me and told me that "Intel chips > Jon> were not used in real computers".....that is until they ported > Jon> Solaris to Intel and tried to mix them into their network. Then > Jon> I took real glee in asking them how they had data compatibility > Jon> across NFS between SPARC and Intel. > > Gah, all the problems with writing socket code and having to do > translations from Network Byte Ordering to Host Byte Ordering. > hton[ls]() and the inverse. > > Jon> As I said, you are the first to mention to me these bad > Jon> decisions. I am curious to know what they are. > > It's in terms of memory ordering on access. See the above link. >

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jon "maddog" Hall

>More obscure. It has to do with how memory accesses to bytes are >handled on the Alpha architecture. They're not very quick, because >the Alpha wants to do all memory access in 32bit chunks. "Quick" is in the eye of the beholder. Yes, the Alpha tended to access data in 32 bit "chunks" to get it into the registers. Being a RISC processor it was not as rich in data access on a byte level. On the other hand other CISC processors also accessed data on a 32-bit level, just that their instruction sets used microcode to make it look like they were only accessing a byte. The trade off was in executing multiple RISC instructions to one microcoded CISC instruction. Would this bother a kernel developer writing a couple of lines of assembly language down at the very lowest level of the kernel....probably. On the other hand for years Linus talked about the Alpha as the best architecture chip he knew, so it could not have been too bad. md On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 5:29 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: > >>>>> "Keith" == Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us> writes: > > Keith> John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > >> I recall, it's mostly the memory ordering around byte accesses that > >> are the problem. > > Keith> Are you saying that the Big Endian vs Little Endian flame war > Keith> actually had consequences in the Real World? > > It did, and still does. MIPS processors can be BE or LE (Big/Little > Endian) depending on how you configure them as I understand, though > this is more the smaller micro-controllers used in embedded stuff. > > I personally play around with ATTiny85 and ATTiny84 MCUs when I get a > chance. Slowly looking at STM8 and STM32 stuff as well. And of > course the Arduino AVR stuff. > > Keith> Or something even more obscure? > > More obscure. It has to do with how memory accesses to bytes are > handled on the Alpha architecture. They're not very quick, because > the Alpha wants to do all memory access in 32bit chunks. > > I honestly don't recall all the full details. You can find info in > the LKML (Linux Kernel Mailing List) which discuss this over the > years. Looks for Posts by Linus Torvalds which also mention Alpha. > Interesting reading. > >

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Jon" == Jon \"maddog\" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> writes: Jon> John, >> Yes, but I don't properly recall if the Itanium design was started >> before AMD64 came or as a reaction to the AMD64. Haven't done any >> research for the real timelines. Jon> Two single-line searches found that the Itanium was launched in Jon> 2001 and the AMD x64 was launched in 2003. Been neck deep in SFLT tape restore wrangling today. Whee!!! >> It's a shame the Alpha architecture didn't make it, even though it did >> have some bad design decisions inside it's ISA and internal >> architecture. It was still a pretty nice and clean 64-bit design. As >> I recall, it's mostly the memory ordering around byte accesses that >> are the problem. Jon> This is the first I have heard of these bad decisions. Would you care to elaborate? It's in regards to memory ordering. See this LKML post by Linus on the topic. This is what I'm talking about mostly. https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/2/1/521 Jon> The memory ordering around byte accesses might have been because Jon> the Alpha was designed to be both little endian and big endian. Jon> So were the MIPS chips. While many vendors supported only big Jon> endian (Motorola, SPARC, etc.) DEC had been supporting little Jon> endian in their PDP-11s, VAX, MIPS and Alphas for data Jon> compatibility. DEC supported little endian because it was Jon> cheaper electronically to have the data held in that fashion. Very much could be that is the reason. I don't know. Jon> Sun made much fun of DEC for years having Unix systems that were Jon> little endian instead of big endian like "real workstations". I Jon> kept asking them about these "Intel things" which were little Jon> endian too. Sun sneered at me and told me that "Intel chips Jon> were not used in real computers".....that is until they ported Jon> Solaris to Intel and tried to mix them into their network. Then Jon> I took real glee in asking them how they had data compatibility Jon> across NFS between SPARC and Intel. Gah, all the problems with writing socket code and having to do translations from Network Byte Ordering to Host Byte Ordering. hton[ls]() and the inverse. Jon> As I said, you are the first to mention to me these bad Jon> decisions. I am curious to know what they are. It's in terms of memory ordering on access. See the above link.

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Keith" == Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us> writes: Keith> John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> I recall, it's mostly the memory ordering around byte accesses that >> are the problem. Keith> Are you saying that the Big Endian vs Little Endian flame war Keith> actually had consequences in the Real World? It did, and still does. MIPS processors can be BE or LE (Big/Little Endian) depending on how you configure them as I understand, though this is more the smaller micro-controllers used in embedded stuff. I personally play around with ATTiny85 and ATTiny84 MCUs when I get a chance. Slowly looking at STM8 and STM32 stuff as well. And of course the Arduino AVR stuff. Keith> Or something even more obscure? More obscure. It has to do with how memory accesses to bytes are handled on the Alpha architecture. They're not very quick, because the Alpha wants to do all memory access in 32bit chunks. I honestly don't recall all the full details. You can find info in the LKML (Linux Kernel Mailing List) which discuss this over the years. Looks for Posts by Linus Torvalds which also mention Alpha. Interesting reading.

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jon "maddog" Hall

John, >Yes, but I don't properly recall if the Itanium design was started >before AMD64 came or as a reaction to the AMD64. Haven't done any >research for the real timelines. Two single-line searches found that the Itanium was launched in 2001 and the AMD x64 was launched in 2003. >It's a shame the Alpha architecture didn't make it, even though it did >have some bad design decisions inside it's ISA and internal >architecture. It was still a pretty nice and clean 64-bit design. As >I recall, it's mostly the memory ordering around byte accesses that >are the problem. This is the first I have heard of these bad decisions. Would you care to elaborate? The memory ordering around byte accesses might have been because the Alpha was designed to be both little endian and big endian. So were the MIPS chips. While many vendors supported only big endian (Motorola, SPARC, etc.) DEC had been supporting little endian in their PDP-11s, VAX, MIPS and Alphas for data compatibility. DEC supported little endian because it was cheaper electronically to have the data held in that fashion. Sun made much fun of DEC for years having Unix systems that were little endian instead of big endian like "real workstations". I kept asking them about these "Intel things" which were little endian too. Sun sneered at me and told me that "Intel chips were not used in real computers".....that is until they ported Solaris to Intel and tried to mix them into their network. Then I took real glee in asking them how they had data compatibility across NFS between SPARC and Intel. As I said, you are the first to mention to me these bad decisions. I am curious to know what they are. md On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 4:56 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: > >>>>> "Jon" == Jon \"maddog\" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> writes: > > Yes, but I don't properly recall if the Itanium design was started > before AMD64 came or as a reaction to the AMD64. Haven't done any > research for the real timelines. > > It's a shame the Alpha architecture didn't make it, even though it did > have some bad design decisions inside it's ISA and internal > architecture. It was still a pretty nice and clean 64-bit design. As > I recall, it's mostly the memory ordering around byte accesses that > are the problem. > > > Jon> Allow me translate what you said: > > Jon> "As I recall, Itanium was Intel's attempt to bi-furcate the market and > Jon> keep 32bit for desktops and such, and to make their 64bit systems for > Jon> workstations and such a seperate product so they could take more > Jon> control of the motherboard, bios, etc" > > Jon> to > > Jon> "Itanium was Intel's abortive attempt to block AMD from making a > Jon> better, faster, cheaper 64-bit CISC product." > > Jon> Shorter, and more to the point. > > > > Jon> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 4:13 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: > > Jon> As I recall, Itanium was Intel's attempt to bi-furcate the market > and > Jon> keep 32bit for desktops and such, and to make their 64bit systems > for > Jon> workstations and such a seperate product so they could take more > Jon> control of the motherboard, bios, etc. > > Jon> Then AMD came out with the AMD64 64-bit extenstions to the Intel > 386 > Jon> (486?) instruction set, since they had an architectural license > to the > Jon> ISA, so they just extended it and started shipping cheaper CPUs > and > Jon> chipsets that could easily suport more than 4gb of RAM, without > Jon> requiring people to do major re-compiles of their software. > Jon> Especially since it would support 32bit applications in a 64bit OS > Jon> without *any* recompile needed. > > Jon> They ate Intel's lunch. Which is why the Pentium 4 (I think) was > such > Jon> a monster chip in terms of CPU GHz and heat, because they were > trying > Jon> to catchup with the Opteron and other AMD chips. > > Jon> John > > Tim> My perspective was from working at Stratus. Continuum at the time was > our flagship line > Jon> of servers > Tim> that ran on PA-RISC and with Itanium it was clear the end of the line > for PA-RISC was > Jon> coming. > > Tim> Bob Evans and others who were more intimately involved can probably > explain it better, > Jon> but I > Tim> remember Stratus getting a couple Itanium development workstations > and my recollection > Jon> was that > Tim> the engineers weren't impressed. > Tim> It wasn't a fundamental improvement on PA-RISC as far as they could > tell. Ultimately VOS > Jon> was > Tim> ported to Xeon and the rest is history. I'm sure someone somewhere is > still happily > Jon> running > Tim> PA-RISC based Stratus servers, but I have to imagine that number > dwindles each year. > > Tim> Personally I have a hypothesis that Intel had really put it's bets on > Xeon and wasn't > Jon> really that > Tim> invested in Itanium. What it did do was get HP out of the HPC market. > It's fair to say > Jon> that Xeon > Tim> based systems running Linux pretty much put the coffin nails in MIPS, > PA-RISC and > Jon> ultimately Sparc > Tim> and likely a few others I don't know about and with it the various > operating systems that > Jon> didn't > Tim> get ported to Xeon. > > Tim> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall < > jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Tim> I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for > support of Intel's Itanium > Tim> processor. > > Tim> As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for > a number of years I > Jon> still > Tim> remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's 64-bit > chip....an Ultra-Wide > Tim> Instruction set. > > Tim> I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, > WRONG.....mostly because I had > Jon> spent the > Tim> past six months proving why even a regular CISC system was the > wrong answer, and here > Jon> Intel > Tim> was going in the opposite direction. > > Tim> After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, > shrugged his shoulders and > Jon> left my > Tim> office. > > Tim> While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so > prominent in the > Jon> production of > Tim> the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real life > "Itanic"....watching it > Jon> sink. > > Tim> md > > Tim> P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came > out with a reasonable > Jon> extension > Tim> to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not RISC) I > was reasonably happy > Jon> with. > > Tim> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Tim> Hey Everybody, > > Tim> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time > (7pm) > > Tim> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, > I'd be up for it. > Tim> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the > linux kernel. Good > Jon> riddance! > > Tim> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! > > Tim> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. > > Tim> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > > Tim> Later, > Tim> Tim. > Tim> -- > Tim> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers > to their constituents > Jon> as > Tim> "consumers". > Tim> _______________________________________________ > Tim> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > Tim> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Tim> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Tim> Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Tim> Web Forum/Archive: > Tim> > Jon> > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… > > Tim> -- > Tim> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as > Jon> "consumers". > > Tim> _______________________________________________ > Tim> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > Tim> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Tim> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Tim> Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Tim> Web Forum/Archive: > Jon> > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ZDSLS… > >

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Keith Wright

John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > I recall, it's mostly the memory ordering around byte accesses that > are the problem. Are you saying that the Big Endian vs Little Endian flame war actually had consequences in the Real World? Or something even more obscure? -- Keith

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Jon" == Jon \"maddog\" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> writes: Yes, but I don't properly recall if the Itanium design was started before AMD64 came or as a reaction to the AMD64. Haven't done any research for the real timelines. It's a shame the Alpha architecture didn't make it, even though it did have some bad design decisions inside it's ISA and internal architecture. It was still a pretty nice and clean 64-bit design. As I recall, it's mostly the memory ordering around byte accesses that are the problem. Jon> Allow me translate what you said: Jon> "As I recall, Itanium was Intel's attempt to bi-furcate the market and Jon> keep 32bit for desktops and such, and to make their 64bit systems for Jon> workstations and such a seperate product so they could take more Jon> control of the motherboard, bios, etc" Jon> to Jon> "Itanium was Intel's abortive attempt to block AMD from making a Jon> better, faster, cheaper 64-bit CISC product." Jon> Shorter, and more to the point. Jon> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 4:13 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: Jon> As I recall, Itanium was Intel's attempt to bi-furcate the market and Jon> keep 32bit for desktops and such, and to make their 64bit systems for Jon> workstations and such a seperate product so they could take more Jon> control of the motherboard, bios, etc. Jon> Then AMD came out with the AMD64 64-bit extenstions to the Intel 386 Jon> (486?) instruction set, since they had an architectural license to the Jon> ISA, so they just extended it and started shipping cheaper CPUs and Jon> chipsets that could easily suport more than 4gb of RAM, without Jon> requiring people to do major re-compiles of their software. Jon> Especially since it would support 32bit applications in a 64bit OS Jon> without *any* recompile needed. Jon> They ate Intel's lunch. Which is why the Pentium 4 (I think) was such Jon> a monster chip in terms of CPU GHz and heat, because they were trying Jon> to catchup with the Opteron and other AMD chips. Jon> John Tim> My perspective was from working at Stratus. Continuum at the time was our flagship line Jon> of servers Tim> that ran on PA-RISC and with Itanium it was clear the end of the line for PA-RISC was Jon> coming. Tim> Bob Evans and others who were more intimately involved can probably explain it better, Jon> but I Tim> remember Stratus getting a couple Itanium development workstations and my recollection Jon> was that Tim> the engineers weren't impressed. Tim> It wasn't a fundamental improvement on PA-RISC as far as they could tell. Ultimately VOS Jon> was Tim> ported to Xeon and the rest is history. I'm sure someone somewhere is still happily Jon> running Tim> PA-RISC based Stratus servers, but I have to imagine that number dwindles each year. Tim> Personally I have a hypothesis that Intel had really put it's bets on Xeon and wasn't Jon> really that Tim> invested in Itanium. What it did do was get HP out of the HPC market. It's fair to say Jon> that Xeon Tim> based systems running Linux pretty much put the coffin nails in MIPS, PA-RISC and Jon> ultimately Sparc Tim> and likely a few others I don't know about and with it the various operating systems that Jon> didn't Tim> get ported to Xeon. Tim> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: Tim> I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of Intel's Itanium Tim> processor. Tim> As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a number of years I Jon> still Tim> remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Tim> Instruction set. Tim> I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly because I had Jon> spent the Tim> past six months proving why even a regular CISC system was the wrong answer, and here Jon> Intel Tim> was going in the opposite direction. Tim> After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his shoulders and Jon> left my Tim> office. Tim> While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent in the Jon> production of Tim> the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real life "Itanic"....watching it Jon> sink. Tim> md Tim> P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with a reasonable Jon> extension Tim> to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not RISC) I was reasonably happy Jon> with. Tim> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: Tim> Hey Everybody, Tim> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) Tim> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be up for it. Tim> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. Good Jon> riddance! Tim> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! Tim> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. Tim> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Tim> Later, Tim> Tim. Tim> -- Tim> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents Jon> as Tim> "consumers". Tim> _______________________________________________ Tim> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org Tim> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Tim> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Tim> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Tim> Web Forum/Archive: Tim> Jon> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… Tim> -- Tim> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as Jon> "consumers". Tim> _______________________________________________ Tim> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org Tim> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Tim> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Tim> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Tim> Web Forum/Archive: Jon> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ZDSLS…

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jon "maddog" Hall

I asked the engineering manager about the Itanium and what he remembered was there was a skunkworks project in ZKO that was trying to port Digital Unix to the Itanium, "Mostly because of the IP management constraints/restrictions from Intel." (his words). DEC already had the fastest microcomputer processor in the world (the Alpha), and we were not going to confuse our application base on what they should port to and support. And to show that I was not a RISC bigot (at least not at the time), I just smiled when I saw what AMD did to create their 64-bit instruction set. It was sweet. md On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:30 PM Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: > The port of Tru64 to Itanium must have been after I left. I do not know > anyone in the Tru64 product management that would have given any life to > that project. No life. None. > > I can ask one of the engineering managers of that time. > > md > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 2:13 PM Jared Greenwald <greenwaldjared(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Still boggles my mind the amount of money HP spent on Itanium hardware >> back after they acquired Compaq/Tru64 only to basically abandon the whole >> thing and lay off everyone. >> >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < >> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >> >>> I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of >>> Intel's Itanium processor. >>> >>> As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a number >>> of years I still remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's >>> 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Instruction set. >>> >>> I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly >>> because I had spent the past six months proving why even a regular CISC >>> system was the wrong answer, and here Intel was going in the opposite >>> direction. >>> >>> After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his >>> shoulders and left my office. >>> >>> While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent >>> in the production of the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real >>> life "Itanic"....watching it sink. >>> >>> md >>> >>> P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with a >>> reasonable extension to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not >>> RISC) I was reasonably happy with. >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hey Everybody, >>>> >>>> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) >>>> >>>> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be >>>> up for it. >>>> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux >>>> kernel. Good riddance! >>>> >>>> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! >>>> >>>> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. >>>> >>>> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >>>> >>>> Later, >>>> Tim. >>>> -- >>>> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >>>> constituents as "consumers". >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>> Change Settings: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>> Web Forum/Archive: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DM5K6… >>> >>

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jon "maddog" Hall

John, Allow me translate what you said: "As I recall, Itanium was Intel's attempt to bi-furcate the market and keep 32bit for desktops and such, and to make their 64bit systems for workstations and such a seperate product so they could take more control of the motherboard, bios, etc" to "Itanium was Intel's abortive attempt to block AMD from making a better, faster, cheaper 64-bit CISC product." Shorter, and more to the point. md On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 4:13 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: > > As I recall, Itanium was Intel's attempt to bi-furcate the market and > keep 32bit for desktops and such, and to make their 64bit systems for > workstations and such a seperate product so they could take more > control of the motherboard, bios, etc. > > Then AMD came out with the AMD64 64-bit extenstions to the Intel 386 > (486?) instruction set, since they had an architectural license to the > ISA, so they just extended it and started shipping cheaper CPUs and > chipsets that could easily suport more than 4gb of RAM, without > requiring people to do major re-compiles of their software. > Especially since it would support 32bit applications in a 64bit OS > without *any* recompile needed. > > They ate Intel's lunch. Which is why the Pentium 4 (I think) was such > a monster chip in terms of CPU GHz and heat, because they were trying > to catchup with the Opteron and other AMD chips. > > John > > > Tim> My perspective was from working at Stratus. Continuum at the time was > our flagship line of servers > Tim> that ran on PA-RISC and with Itanium it was clear the end of the line > for PA-RISC was coming. > > Tim> Bob Evans and others who were more intimately involved can probably > explain it better, but I > Tim> remember Stratus getting a couple Itanium development workstations > and my recollection was that > Tim> the engineers weren't impressed. > Tim> It wasn't a fundamental improvement on PA-RISC as far as they could > tell. Ultimately VOS was > Tim> ported to Xeon and the rest is history. I'm sure someone somewhere is > still happily running > Tim> PA-RISC based Stratus servers, but I have to imagine that number > dwindles each year. > > Tim> Personally I have a hypothesis that Intel had really put it's bets on > Xeon and wasn't really that > Tim> invested in Itanium. What it did do was get HP out of the HPC market. > It's fair to say that Xeon > Tim> based systems running Linux pretty much put the coffin nails in MIPS, > PA-RISC and ultimately Sparc > Tim> and likely a few others I don't know about and with it the various > operating systems that didn't > Tim> get ported to Xeon. > > Tim> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall < > jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Tim> I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support > of Intel's Itanium > Tim> processor. > > Tim> As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a > number of years I still > Tim> remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's 64-bit > chip....an Ultra-Wide > Tim> Instruction set. > > Tim> I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, > WRONG.....mostly because I had spent the > Tim> past six months proving why even a regular CISC system was the > wrong answer, and here Intel > Tim> was going in the opposite direction. > > Tim> After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, > shrugged his shoulders and left my > Tim> office. > > Tim> While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so > prominent in the production of > Tim> the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real life > "Itanic"....watching it sink. > > Tim> md > > Tim> P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out > with a reasonable extension > Tim> to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not RISC) I was > reasonably happy with. > > Tim> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Tim> Hey Everybody, > > Tim> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time > (7pm) > > Tim> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, > I'd be up for it. > Tim> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the > linux kernel. Good riddance! > > Tim> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! > > Tim> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. > > Tim> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > > Tim> Later, > Tim> Tim. > Tim> -- > Tim> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to > their constituents as > Tim> "consumers". > Tim> _______________________________________________ > Tim> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > Tim> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Tim> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Tim> Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Tim> Web Forum/Archive: > Tim> > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… > > Tim> -- > Tim> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > > Tim> _______________________________________________ > Tim> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > Tim> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Tim> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Tim> Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Tim> Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ZDSLS… >

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by John Stoffel

As I recall, Itanium was Intel's attempt to bi-furcate the market and keep 32bit for desktops and such, and to make their 64bit systems for workstations and such a seperate product so they could take more control of the motherboard, bios, etc. Then AMD came out with the AMD64 64-bit extenstions to the Intel 386 (486?) instruction set, since they had an architectural license to the ISA, so they just extended it and started shipping cheaper CPUs and chipsets that could easily suport more than 4gb of RAM, without requiring people to do major re-compiles of their software. Especially since it would support 32bit applications in a 64bit OS without *any* recompile needed. They ate Intel's lunch. Which is why the Pentium 4 (I think) was such a monster chip in terms of CPU GHz and heat, because they were trying to catchup with the Opteron and other AMD chips. John Tim> My perspective was from working at Stratus. Continuum at the time was our flagship line of servers Tim> that ran on PA-RISC and with Itanium it was clear the end of the line for PA-RISC was coming. Tim> Bob Evans and others who were more intimately involved can probably explain it better, but I Tim> remember Stratus getting a couple Itanium development workstations and my recollection was that Tim> the engineers weren't impressed. Tim> It wasn't a fundamental improvement on PA-RISC as far as they could tell. Ultimately VOS was Tim> ported to Xeon and the rest is history. I'm sure someone somewhere is still happily running Tim> PA-RISC based Stratus servers, but I have to imagine that number dwindles each year. Tim> Personally I have a hypothesis that Intel had really put it's bets on Xeon and wasn't really that Tim> invested in Itanium. What it did do was get HP out of the HPC market. It's fair to say that Xeon Tim> based systems running Linux pretty much put the coffin nails in MIPS, PA-RISC and ultimately Sparc Tim> and likely a few others I don't know about and with it the various operating systems that didn't Tim> get ported to Xeon. Tim> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: Tim> I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of Intel's Itanium Tim> processor. Tim> As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a number of years I still Tim> remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Tim> Instruction set. Tim> I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly because I had spent the Tim> past six months proving why even a regular CISC system was the wrong answer, and here Intel Tim> was going in the opposite direction. Tim> After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his shoulders and left my Tim> office. Tim> While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent in the production of Tim> the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real life "Itanic"....watching it sink. Tim> md Tim> P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with a reasonable extension Tim> to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not RISC) I was reasonably happy with. Tim> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: Tim> Hey Everybody, Tim> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) Tim> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be up for it. Tim> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. Good riddance! Tim> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! Tim> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. Tim> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Tim> Later, Tim> Tim. Tim> -- Tim> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as Tim> "consumers". Tim> _______________________________________________ Tim> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org Tim> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Tim> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Tim> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Tim> Web Forum/Archive: Tim> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… Tim> -- Tim> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers". Tim> _______________________________________________ Tim> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org Tim> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Tim> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Tim> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Tim> Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ZDSLS…

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jon "maddog" Hall

I think that "TruCluster" was a layered product on top of "Tru64". I think that was slightly after my time at DEC also. I left in 1999. md On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:58 PM Jared Greenwald <greenwaldjared(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Sorry I was more thinking of TruCluster. I know we have a lot of contacts > in common from that time. > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 3:30 PM Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> The port of Tru64 to Itanium must have been after I left. I do not know >> anyone in the Tru64 product management that would have given any life to >> that project. No life. None. >> >> I can ask one of the engineering managers of that time. >> >> md >> >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 2:13 PM Jared Greenwald <greenwaldjared(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Still boggles my mind the amount of money HP spent on Itanium hardware >>> back after they acquired Compaq/Tru64 only to basically abandon the whole >>> thing and lay off everyone. >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < >>> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of >>>> Intel's Itanium processor. >>>> >>>> As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a >>>> number of years I still remember my shock that THIS was the answer for >>>> Intel's 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Instruction set. >>>> >>>> I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly >>>> because I had spent the past six months proving why even a regular CISC >>>> system was the wrong answer, and here Intel was going in the opposite >>>> direction. >>>> >>>> After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his >>>> shoulders and left my office. >>>> >>>> While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent >>>> in the production of the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real >>>> life "Itanic"....watching it sink. >>>> >>>> md >>>> >>>> P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with >>>> a reasonable extension to the i86 architecture....which (although it was >>>> not RISC) I was reasonably happy with. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hey Everybody, >>>>> >>>>> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) >>>>> >>>>> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be >>>>> up for it. >>>>> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux >>>>> kernel. Good riddance! >>>>> >>>>> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! >>>>> >>>>> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. >>>>> >>>>> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >>>>> >>>>> Later, >>>>> Tim. >>>>> -- >>>>> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >>>>> constituents as "consumers". >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>>> Change Settings: >>>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>>> Web Forum/Archive: >>>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>> Change Settings: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>> Web Forum/Archive: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DM5K6… >>>> >>>

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jared Greenwald

Sorry I was more thinking of TruCluster. I know we have a lot of contacts in common from that time. On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 3:30 PM Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: > The port of Tru64 to Itanium must have been after I left. I do not know > anyone in the Tru64 product management that would have given any life to > that project. No life. None. > > I can ask one of the engineering managers of that time. > > md > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 2:13 PM Jared Greenwald <greenwaldjared(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Still boggles my mind the amount of money HP spent on Itanium hardware >> back after they acquired Compaq/Tru64 only to basically abandon the whole >> thing and lay off everyone. >> >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < >> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >> >>> I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of >>> Intel's Itanium processor. >>> >>> As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a number >>> of years I still remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's >>> 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Instruction set. >>> >>> I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly >>> because I had spent the past six months proving why even a regular CISC >>> system was the wrong answer, and here Intel was going in the opposite >>> direction. >>> >>> After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his >>> shoulders and left my office. >>> >>> While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent >>> in the production of the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real >>> life "Itanic"....watching it sink. >>> >>> md >>> >>> P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with a >>> reasonable extension to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not >>> RISC) I was reasonably happy with. >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hey Everybody, >>>> >>>> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) >>>> >>>> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be >>>> up for it. >>>> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux >>>> kernel. Good riddance! >>>> >>>> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! >>>> >>>> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. >>>> >>>> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >>>> >>>> Later, >>>> Tim. >>>> -- >>>> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >>>> constituents as "consumers". >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>> Change Settings: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>> Web Forum/Archive: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DM5K6… >>> >>

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jon "maddog" Hall

The port of Tru64 to Itanium must have been after I left. I do not know anyone in the Tru64 product management that would have given any life to that project. No life. None. I can ask one of the engineering managers of that time. md On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 2:13 PM Jared Greenwald <greenwaldjared(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Still boggles my mind the amount of money HP spent on Itanium hardware > back after they acquired Compaq/Tru64 only to basically abandon the whole > thing and lay off everyone. > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >> I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of >> Intel's Itanium processor. >> >> As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a number >> of years I still remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's >> 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Instruction set. >> >> I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly >> because I had spent the past six months proving why even a regular CISC >> system was the wrong answer, and here Intel was going in the opposite >> direction. >> >> After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his >> shoulders and left my office. >> >> While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent >> in the production of the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real >> life "Itanic"....watching it sink. >> >> md >> >> P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with a >> reasonable extension to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not >> RISC) I was reasonably happy with. >> >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Hey Everybody, >>> >>> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) >>> >>> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be >>> up for it. >>> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. >>> Good riddance! >>> >>> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! >>> >>> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. >>> >>> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >>> >>> Later, >>> Tim. >>> -- >>> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >>> constituents as "consumers". >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DM5K6… >> >

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jared Greenwald

Still boggles my mind the amount of money HP spent on Itanium hardware back after they acquired Compaq/Tru64 only to basically abandon the whole thing and lay off everyone. On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of > Intel's Itanium processor. > > As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a number > of years I still remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's > 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Instruction set. > > I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly > because I had spent the past six months proving why even a regular CISC > system was the wrong answer, and here Intel was going in the opposite > direction. > > After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his > shoulders and left my office. > > While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent in > the production of the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real > life "Itanic"....watching it sink. > > md > > P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with a > reasonable extension to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not > RISC) I was reasonably happy with. > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> Hey Everybody, >> >> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) >> >> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be >> up for it. >> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. >> Good riddance! >> >> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! >> >> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. >> >> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >> >> Later, >> Tim. >> -- >> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >> constituents as "consumers". >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >> > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DM5K6… >

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Tim Keller

John, My perspective was from working at Stratus. Continuum at the time was our flagship line of servers that ran on PA-RISC and with Itanium it was clear the end of the line for PA-RISC was coming. Bob Evans and others who were more intimately involved can probably explain it better, but I remember Stratus getting a couple Itanium development workstations and my recollection was that the engineers weren't impressed. It wasn't a fundamental improvement on PA-RISC as far as they could tell. Ultimately VOS was ported to Xeon and the rest is history. I'm *sure* someone somewhere is still happily running PA-RISC based Stratus servers, but I have to imagine that number dwindles each year. Personally I have a hypothesis that Intel had really put it's bets on Xeon and wasn't really that invested in Itanium. What it did do was get HP out of the HPC market. It's fair to say that Xeon based systems running Linux pretty much put the coffin nails in MIPS, PA-RISC and ultimately Sparc and likely a few others I don't know about and with it the various operating systems that didn't get ported to Xeon. On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of > Intel's Itanium processor. > > As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a number > of years I still remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's > 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Instruction set. > > I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly > because I had spent the past six months proving why even a regular CISC > system was the wrong answer, and here Intel was going in the opposite > direction. > > After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his > shoulders and left my office. > > While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent in > the production of the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real > life "Itanic"....watching it sink. > > md > > P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with a > reasonable extension to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not > RISC) I was reasonably happy with. > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> Hey Everybody, >> >> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) >> >> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be >> up for it. >> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. >> Good riddance! >> >> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! >> >> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. >> >> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >> >> Later, >> Tim. >> -- >> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >> constituents as "consumers". >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >> > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jon "maddog" Hall

I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of Intel's Itanium processor. As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a number of years I still remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Instruction set. I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly because I had spent the past six months proving why even a regular CISC system was the wrong answer, and here Intel was going in the opposite direction. After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his shoulders and left my office. While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent in the production of the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real life "Itanic"....watching it sink. md P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with a reasonable extension to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not RISC) I was reasonably happy with. On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey Everybody, > > We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) > > As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be up for > it. > I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. > Good riddance! > > We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! > > As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. > > Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > > Later, > Tim. > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Richard Klein

I'm not sure I'll make it, but I'd like to hear more about NextCloud. I briefly attempted to install the server last weekend. Only the desktop client seems to be in the Debian repository, and I didn't have enough time to investigate what the next best way to install it is. I did discover that it's a fork of OwnCloud, though. I'd never heard of that. On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey Everybody, > > We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) > > As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be up for > it. > I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. > Good riddance! > > We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! > > As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. > > Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > > Later, > Tim. > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >

Feb. 4, 2021

WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody, We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be up for it. I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. Good riddance! We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: Disk mirroring in Linux -- MD-RAID or LVM? Advantages and disadvantages?

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Voorhis <mvoorhis(a)mcvau.net> writes: Michael> On 1/23/21 10:29 AM, John Stoffel wrote: >> KISS is good. But you really need to talk with the customer to >> define their workflow better. Also, there's a big difference between >> SSD and SATA disks. Michael> Oh definitely. I'll be talking to them. I'm just enjoying the design Michael> part, which has always been my favorite part of this sort of work -- the Michael> designing and building of stuff, before the inevitable descent into Michael> maintenance issues, misuse and neglect. :) >> Heck, you have that pile of six SAS disks, why not use them in a >> RAID0 for your working set, but then a pair of mirrored larger disks >> to store your data. Michael> I'd love to use my stack of SAS disks ... but that would mean Michael> purchasing a SAS controller for the project, and that would Michael> mean $$$. Hmmm, that's another thing I hadn't thought about Michael> looking for -- a JBOD SAS Controller ...?? They're cheap, look at the LSI stuff you can find in the internet. Generally if it can do SATA, it should do SAS. https://www.ebay.com/itm/133137220890?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3AAQAFA… This might do the trick... though I'd check the cables.

Jan. 23, 2021

Re: Disk mirroring in Linux -- MD-RAID or LVM? Advantages and disadvantages?

by Michael Voorhis

On 1/23/21 10:29 AM, John Stoffel wrote: > KISS is good. But you really need to talk with the customer to > define their workflow better. Also, there's a big difference between > SSD and SATA disks. Oh definitely. I'll be talking to them. I'm just enjoying the design part, which has always been my favorite part of this sort of work -- the designing and building of stuff, before the inevitable descent into maintenance issues, misuse and neglect. :) > Heck, you have that pile of six SAS disks, why not use them in a > RAID0 for your working set, but then a pair of mirrored larger disks > to store your data. I'd love to use my stack of SAS disks ... but that would mean purchasing a SAS controller for the project, and that would mean $$$. Hmmm, that's another thing I hadn't thought about looking for -- a JBOD SAS Controller ...??

Jan. 23, 2021

Re: Disk mirroring in Linux -- MD-RAID or LVM? Advantages and disadvantages?

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Voorhis via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: Michael> On 1/22/21 7:05 PM, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: >> To John's point, I'd like to understand what you're better. Michael> The reason for the lack of detail is that I don't yet have a huge amt of Michael> detail on how the customer's software will work. With COVID19 I still Michael> haven't been able to have a detailed discussion. Michael> But what I've read on this list so far has been very useful. Michael> I like KISS design and I hadn't thought (very hard) about the Michael> use of RAID0 before now. XFS also sounds like it may be a Michael> part of the solution. KISS is good. But you really need to talk with the customer to define their workflow better. Also, there's a big difference between SSD and SATA disks. Heck, you have that pile of six SAS disks, why not use them in a RAID0 for your working set, but then a pair of mirrored larger disks to store your data. John

Jan. 23, 2021

Re: Disk mirroring in Linux -- MD-RAID or LVM? Advantages and disadvantages?

by Michael Voorhis

On 1/22/21 7:05 PM, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: > To John's point, I'd like to understand what you're better. The reason for the lack of detail is that I don't yet have a huge amt of detail on how the customer's software will work. With COVID19 I still haven't been able to have a detailed discussion. But what I've read on this list so far has been very useful. I like KISS design and I hadn't thought (very hard) about the use of RAID0 before now. XFS also sounds like it may be a part of the solution. --MCV.

Jan. 23, 2021

Re: Disk mirroring in Linux -- MD-RAID or LVM? Advantages and disadvantages?

by Tim Keller

If you want a simple mirror, you can't get simpler than mdadm with xfs on top of it. Now, is that your best option? Not sure. It *sounds* like your application is going to be come i/o bound really quickly. To John's point, I'd like to understand what you're better. One option you might want to investigate is something like a highpoint nvme card with a bunch of fast nvme's on it. I have such a setup with 4 nvme's in a raid0 (mdadm) and it'll do 800k IOPS. Tim. On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 5:01 PM John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Michael> In Linux I can do software RAID using LVM or with MD (i.e., > Michael> mdadm) as a basis. I'm currently thinking of a simple mirror > Michael> of two conventional SATA disks. > > Michael> The machine is being built to do a compute-workload involving > Michael> examination of many small(ish?) files, and will not be a > Michael> desktop or a recreational/gaming machine. I don't know > Michael> anything about the files or how they'll be examined. > > Will all the working set be local to the machine, or will they be > stored on a NAS, but copied to the system and processed locally? > > Since it's a dedicated compute box, if I knew I could rebuild it > easily, and I needed maximum local disk performance, I's be tempted to > setup RAID0 stripe across the two disks. But... with SATA SSDs, I'd > probably just go with a RAID1 mirror using mdadm, then setup lvm on > top of the /dev/md0 device to create my local filesystems. > > Michael> How would YOU setup a simple mirror in whatever Linux you > Michael> use? Why do you prefer your selection? > > I prefer mdadm on the bottom, then lvm on top, then ext4/xfs on top of > that. > > But... in this case, the workload will impact the design. One thing > to keep in mind is that directories with lots and lots of files will > have scaling problems past a certain point. The old NNTP news spool > servers used to setup a directory structure with three, four or more > directory layers so they didn't end up with too many files in any one > directory. > > Now, if all the data is local, will you be doing backups? Can you do > backups of just intermediate results? Does it all need to be backed > up? > > Again, if there will be lots of IO, going with SSDS will be best, > otherwise each disk will limit you to 100-120 IOPs/disk. SSDS handle > it so much better. > > But of course... under sustained load, some SSDs will slow down to a > crawl as they hit the internal cache limits and they need to start > doing garbage collection while still writing. > > But in general, your question didn't give us enough info to give you a > good answer. Maybe try it top down? I.e.: > > I've got an application which needs to process hundreds (thousands? > millions?) of small files which are downloaded, parsed with a compute > light/heavy process, and intermediate/final results then saved for > furthre processing. > > Describe the problem you're trying to solve, without assuming a > design. > > John > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/S7MPW… > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Jan. 23, 2021

Re: Disk mirroring in Linux -- MD-RAID or LVM? Advantages and disadvantages?

by John Stoffel

Michael> In Linux I can do software RAID using LVM or with MD (i.e., Michael> mdadm) as a basis. I'm currently thinking of a simple mirror Michael> of two conventional SATA disks. Michael> The machine is being built to do a compute-workload involving Michael> examination of many small(ish?) files, and will not be a Michael> desktop or a recreational/gaming machine. I don't know Michael> anything about the files or how they'll be examined. Will all the working set be local to the machine, or will they be stored on a NAS, but copied to the system and processed locally? Since it's a dedicated compute box, if I knew I could rebuild it easily, and I needed maximum local disk performance, I's be tempted to setup RAID0 stripe across the two disks. But... with SATA SSDs, I'd probably just go with a RAID1 mirror using mdadm, then setup lvm on top of the /dev/md0 device to create my local filesystems. Michael> How would YOU setup a simple mirror in whatever Linux you Michael> use? Why do you prefer your selection? I prefer mdadm on the bottom, then lvm on top, then ext4/xfs on top of that. But... in this case, the workload will impact the design. One thing to keep in mind is that directories with lots and lots of files will have scaling problems past a certain point. The old NNTP news spool servers used to setup a directory structure with three, four or more directory layers so they didn't end up with too many files in any one directory. Now, if all the data is local, will you be doing backups? Can you do backups of just intermediate results? Does it all need to be backed up? Again, if there will be lots of IO, going with SSDS will be best, otherwise each disk will limit you to 100-120 IOPs/disk. SSDS handle it so much better. But of course... under sustained load, some SSDs will slow down to a crawl as they hit the internal cache limits and they need to start doing garbage collection while still writing. But in general, your question didn't give us enough info to give you a good answer. Maybe try it top down? I.e.: I've got an application which needs to process hundreds (thousands? millions?) of small files which are downloaded, parsed with a compute light/heavy process, and intermediate/final results then saved for furthre processing. Describe the problem you're trying to solve, without assuming a design. John

Jan. 22, 2021

Re: Disk mirroring in Linux -- MD-RAID or LVM? Advantages and disadvantages?

by Rob Evans

Separate from the OS on the SD card, my RPI4 file server uses both MD raid and LVM. There are two 4TB powered, USB3 external disks, sda and sdb. They are the mirrors in a RAID1 array. # parted -sm /dev/sda p BYT; /dev/sda:4001GB:scsi:512:4096:gpt:WD Elements 25A3:; 1:41.0kB:4001GB:4001GB::RAID2:raid; # cat /proc/mdstat Personalities : [raid1] md0 : active raid1 sda1[3] sdb1[2] 3906853808 blocks super 1.2 [2/2] [UU] bitmap: 3/30 pages [12KB], 65536KB chunk Then LVM is used to manage the space in /dev/md0. About 1TB of md0 is not allocated yet. The nice thing about LVM is that I can easily use that to extend any existing file system or make additional ones. My file systems are ext4. # lvs LV VG Attr LSize LV_Home VG_data -wi-ao---- <1.82t LV_WebCam VG_data -wi-ao---- 931.84g # lsblk NAME MAJ:MIN RM SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT sda 8:0 0 3.7T 0 disk └─sda1 8:1 0 3.7T 0 part └─md0 9:0 0 3.7T 0 raid1 ├─VG_data-LV_WebCam 253:0 0 931.9G 0 lvm /WebCam └─VG_data-LV_Home 253:1 0 1.8T 0 lvm /home sdb 8:16 0 3.7T 0 disk └─sdb1 8:17 0 3.7T 0 part └─md0 9:0 0 3.7T 0 raid1 ├─VG_data-LV_WebCam 253:0 0 931.9G 0 lvm /WebCam └─VG_data-LV_Home 253:1 0 1.8T 0 lvm /home mmcblk0 179:0 0 29.7G 0 disk ├─mmcblk0p1 179:1 0 256M 0 part /boot └─mmcblk0p2 179:2 0 29.5G 0 part / No automatic setup here. -RE On 1/20/21 4:36 PM, Chuck Anderson via WLUG wrote: > On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 03:34:25PM -0500, Michael Voorhis via WLUG wrote: >> How would YOU setup a simple mirror in whatever Linux you use? Why do >> you prefer your selection? > MD RAID is set up by the installers I've used (Fedora, Red Hat, > Centos). LVM is used on top of MD RAID to provide flexible > partitioning. I've never used LVM RAID. > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/X2WG4…

Jan. 21, 2021

Re: Disk mirroring in Linux -- MD-RAID or LVM? Advantages and disadvantages?

by Chuck Anderson

On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 03:34:25PM -0500, Michael Voorhis via WLUG wrote: > How would YOU setup a simple mirror in whatever Linux you use? Why do > you prefer your selection? MD RAID is set up by the installers I've used (Fedora, Red Hat, Centos). LVM is used on top of MD RAID to provide flexible partitioning. I've never used LVM RAID.

Jan. 20, 2021

Re: [EXT] Disk mirroring in Linux -- MD-RAID or LVM? Advantages and disadvantages?

by Krichevsky, Nicholas J.

To answer your question by asking another one, have you considered ZFS? This is what I use for a RAID10 setup in my NAS, in part because it's just what I know how to use, but its checksumming, CoW snapshotting (unlike LVM, you do not have to allocate space for one explicitly), and array management features are quite nice. The only downside is that it's out-of-tree, so if you're using a distro that updates the kernel fairly frequently, you have to wait a little while for the ZFS folks to update it. On my desktop (which runs Fedora, and made using ZFS annoying since it upgrades kernels often), I use mdadm with two drives in RAID1, with xfs on top of them. IIRC, the reason I went with mdadm over LVM was simply because of maturity, but that's perhaps not the reason you're looking for :) Speaking about performance is where I step out of my depth a little bit, but to my understanding, xfs has very good support for a large number of small/parallel reads (don't quote me on this). Might be worth considering using this on top of mdadm. ________________________________ From: Michael Voorhis via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 3:34 PM To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Cc: Michael Voorhis <mvoorhis(a)mcvau.net> Subject: [EXT] [WLUG] Disk mirroring in Linux -- MD-RAID or LVM? Advantages and disadvantages? Hi all; In Linux I can do software RAID using LVM or with MD (i.e., mdadm) as a basis. I'm currently thinking of a simple mirror of two conventional SATA disks. The machine is being built to do a compute-workload involving examination of many small(ish?) files, and will not be a desktop or a recreational/gaming machine. I don't know anything about the files or how they'll be examined. How would YOU setup a simple mirror in whatever Linux you use? Why do you prefer your selection? Thanks, --MCV. _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail… Change Settings: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail… Web Forum/Archive: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…

Jan. 20, 2021

Disk mirroring in Linux -- MD-RAID or LVM? Advantages and disadvantages?

by Michael Voorhis

Hi all; In Linux I can do software RAID using LVM or with MD (i.e., mdadm) as a basis. I'm currently thinking of a simple mirror of two conventional SATA disks. The machine is being built to do a compute-workload involving examination of many small(ish?) files, and will not be a desktop or a recreational/gaming machine. I don't know anything about the files or how they'll be examined. How would YOU setup a simple mirror in whatever Linux you use? Why do you prefer your selection? Thanks, --MCV.

Jan. 20, 2021

Re: We've got a meeting this Thursday! (Jan. 14th, 2021) at 7pm!

by Keith Wright

"Aljerin Butler,Jr. via WLUG" <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > I installed the jitsi app on my Samsung Galaxy S10. I need a room > number to join the meeting. I made a similar mistake, except that I did not actually install it. I am not sure what you installed (I was too frightened to install the Debian package). It might be the software needed to run a jit.si server. In any case I think you do not need it. You need a computer with working microphone and speaker (sound), and should have a camera. You also need a web browser that is not ancient. (Lynx https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx_(web_browser) will not cut it!) Just put the URL https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA into the web browser. It will ask your permision to use the camera (Yes). It will display a rectangle with a drop down menu and the title "Join Meeting". Do not look in the menu; just click "Join Meeting". It _might_ work! -- Keith PS: I think you can do that any time. If there is no meeting happening, you will be all alone, but you can admire yourself on your own computer screen and see that it mostly sort of works (except for really working). > On Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 9:38:50 PM EST, Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Hey Everybody, > We've got a meeting this Thursday (Jan. 14th). at 7pm! > It's going to be in our usual place on Jitsi: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA

Jan. 14, 2021

Re: We've got a meeting this Thursday! (Jan. 14th, 2021) at 7pm!

by Aljerin Butler,Jr.

Tim, I installed the jitsi app on my Samsung Galaxy S10. I need a room number to join the meeting. On Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 9:38:50 PM EST, Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: Hey Everybody, We've got a meeting this Thursday (Jan. 14th). at 7pm! It's going to be in our usual place on Jitsi: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Nothing in particular is planned as a topic but I'm sure a few interesting things will bubble to the top... like the whole CentOS thing and what options there are for us now. Hope to see you there!Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers"._______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/HPAZX…

Jan. 14, 2021

We've got a meeting this Thursday! (Jan. 14th, 2021) at 7pm!

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody, We've got a meeting this Thursday (Jan. 14th). at 7pm! It's going to be in our usual place on Jitsi: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA <https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA> Nothing in particular is planned as a topic but I'm sure a few interesting things will bubble to the top... like the whole CentOS thing and what options there are for us now. Hope to see you there! Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Jan. 13, 2021

Re: dd-wrt and vlans

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Mike" == Mike Long <mlong(a)datalong.com> writes: Mike> I have verizon fios as my internet provider. The setup is: Mike> Verizon (FIOS-G1100) internet facing router. Mike> D Link DGS-1008 8 port swich (currently used to give additional ports Mike> for NAS, computer, printer, etc.) Mike> 1 wifi network for all wireless devices provided by FIO-G1100 router. Mike> The E4200 router is not currently used and I intended to repurpose it to Mike> create the vlans. I can confirm that dd-wrt is buggy with the e4200 Mike> which may be one reason I have not been successful. Mike> Because of my lack of time to dedicate to this project and possible Mike> hardware incompatability I'm thinking I am better off getting a Mike> different router that is capable of assigning differnt vlans to the Mike> ports as well as provide a wifi networks for each vlan. Ideally I would Mike> have 4 vlans for a guest network , iot, personal devices and work devices. Mike> Does anyone have any suggestions for a good router that has this Mike> functionality built in? It depends. I used to think Ubiquity would be the way I would personally move forward... but I've decided that their gateway router wasn't upto snuff, and the rest of their line wasn't compelling enough. Do you have full control of the FIOS-G1100 router? Does it support VLANs? If not, then you'll need another box behind it. Anyway, I don't have personal experience with MicroTik, but it's got a decent rep, and you can get a 10 x 1g system running RouterOS which supports VLANs. https://mikrotik.com/product/RB3011UiAS-RM I've used an APU1 board with OPNsense 20.7.x and it has VLAN support, but I can't say how well it works since I didn't get my core switch and VLANs configured, and was hesitant to do it while the rest of the family is at home with me. But I should. The D-Link DGS-1008 probably won't support VLANs, so you won't be able to put an IoT devices on there. Getting a switch that supports VLANs is key, since most routers don't have alot of ports to use. So getting a switch with VLAN support (careful, my upstair TP-LINK one is said to have trouble where it puts all traffic on VLAN1 no matter what... Depending on where all your gear is located, maybe something off ebay like an old Cisco switch/router with VLAN support would be a good bet? I personally like keeping the WAPs seperate from the firewall/router and then a seperate switch(es) as well. It means more gear needing VLAN support, but it also means that each device does what it does with much less compromise. In any case, please keep sharing your results! John

Jan. 10, 2021

Re: dd-wrt and vlans

by Mike Long

I have verizon fios as my internet provider. The setup is: Verizon (FIOS-G1100) internet facing router. D Link DGS-1008 8 port swich (currently used to give additional ports for NAS, computer, printer, etc.) 1 wifi network for all wireless devices provided by FIO-G1100 router. The E4200 router is not currently used and I intended to repurpose it to create the vlans. I can confirm that dd-wrt is buggy with the e4200 which may be one reason I have not been successful. Because of my lack of time to dedicate to this project and possible hardware incompatability I'm thinking I am better off getting a different router that is capable of assigning differnt vlans to the ports as well as provide a wifi networks for each vlan. Ideally I would have 4 vlans for a guest network , iot, personal devices and work devices. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good router that has this functionality built in? -mike On 1/5/2021 2:20 PM, John Stoffel via WLUG wrote: >>>>>> "Mike" == Mike Long via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Mike> I have been lurking on this list of a long time and have learned much > Mike> over the years. > > Mike> Now I'm hoping someone can point me to a good resource to > Mike> understaning vlans. For some reason networking configurations > Mike> beyond the most basic setups have never been something I really > Mike> have gotten my head around. Databases are more my thing. > > So for VLANs you will also need your core switch at home (or ideally > all your switches) to support VLANs properly. Or you need to have > seperate physical networks, which gets un-wieldy. > > Mike> I have a Linksys E4200 router that I have flashed with the > Mike> latest dd-wrt v24-40559_NEWD-2_K2.6_mini. My objective is to > Mike> setup multiple vlans with multiple SSID's associated with the > Mike> vlans to segragate my business, home, and iot devices from one > Mike> another. After trying this tutorial > Mike> https://www.ciscopress.com/articles/article.asp?p=1730493 and > Mike> reseting the router many times I decided I need to understand > Mike> how vlans work and how to set them up properly with this > Mike> setup. I would like to start by understanding the default setup > Mike> and what role the default bridge br0 plays in that setup and > Mike> then move on from there. > > Can you explain (or show a diagram) of your network? > > So in my case, I've been starting to play around with VLANs as well, > but since my wife and kids are working from home, along with me, it's > hard to find time to possibly break the network screwing around with > VLANs. > > The basic idea is that packets are tagged with the VLANid they are > supposed to be presented to. So on a switch port, it will either be > on all VLANs, or will only pass traffic for one or more specific > VLANS. > > I have TP-Link EAP-EAP225 WAPs (Wireless Access Points) at my house. > I finally gave up on my old Netgear WNDR3700v1,2 routers I had running > DD-WRT, but only using them as WAPs. I have a PCEngines APU4 running > as my firewall, running OPNsense. I like keeping these things > seperate. > > My core switch is an ancient Dell PowerConnect 5324 with 24 1gb > ports. And a small TP-link switch upstairs since I only have one path > up from the basement. > > Anyway... I mean to setup VLANs as well, but the possibility of > breaking things has stopped me for all of 2020 basically. Heh. > > since the Linksys E4200 only has four internal ports, I'm pretty > certain you're running a switch or two behind it. So what I would do > as a first step would be to setup a small switch on a single port, and > set up that port on the E4200 to be in VLAN 10. Then make sure you > route traffic to that VLAN. > > So I'd also make VLAN 10 be the subnet 192.168.10.0/24, to keep it all > simple. > > Put a RaspberryPi or somethingh where you can access it directly, then > configure it for that subnet and see if you can ping and pass traffic. > > At that point, you can setup things so that VLAN 10 can only send > traffic to the internet, and not to any other VLANs. But I don't know > how good the E4200s with DD-WRT are in terms of supporting VLANs. I > seem to remember it was kinda flaky and problematic. > > The real trick is when you want to pass multiple VLANs down a single > cable, and have the switches at each end (or a linux server with VMs > and VLANs configured) pass traffic properly. Then it starts getting > more hairy. > > I'd offer more ideas, but we really need to know more about your > network setup (and your needs/desires) to make it work. > > I too want to put my IOT things onto a seperate VLAN on my WAPs, so I > can isolate that traffic, I just need to setup the core switch > properly. Ideally while everyone else is gone for a day. Or two. > > *grin* > > Please keep posting, I'm sure a bunch of us are in the same boat. > > John > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/PNFLC…

Jan. 10, 2021

Re: Urban planning software

by Bradley Noyes

Maybe AB-Street? It is FOSS, but also only in alpha stage. I came across it awhile back when looking for projects using the Rust programing language. Its also not a CAD style drawing app, but still looks super cool to me. Looks like a lot of fun too. https://github.com/dabreegster/abstreet/#ab-street <https://github.com/dabreegster/abstreet/#ab-street> - brad > On Jan 3, 2021, at 16:55, joshua.gage.stone--- via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Hey everyone! > > I've been taking interest in urban planning recently, and figured I'd > like to try visualizing street layouts. I'd like to mock up roads, > parking spaces, intersections, sidewalkes, etc, but I'm not sure where > to start. > > As far as I'm aware, AutoCAD Civil 3D and SketchUp are fairly popular > applications in the field, but I'm interested in something that's FOSS. > Does anyone have suggestions? > > Looking forward to hearing from you all, and I hope you're all having a > good start to the new year! > > - Josh > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/KIIIF…

Jan. 5, 2021

Re: dd-wrt and vlans

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Mike" == Mike Long via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: Mike> I have been lurking on this list of a long time and have learned much Mike> over the years. Mike> Now I'm hoping someone can point me to a good resource to Mike> understaning vlans. For some reason networking configurations Mike> beyond the most basic setups have never been something I really Mike> have gotten my head around. Databases are more my thing. So for VLANs you will also need your core switch at home (or ideally all your switches) to support VLANs properly. Or you need to have seperate physical networks, which gets un-wieldy. Mike> I have a Linksys E4200 router that I have flashed with the Mike> latest dd-wrt v24-40559_NEWD-2_K2.6_mini. My objective is to Mike> setup multiple vlans with multiple SSID's associated with the Mike> vlans to segragate my business, home, and iot devices from one Mike> another. After trying this tutorial Mike> https://www.ciscopress.com/articles/article.asp?p=1730493 and Mike> reseting the router many times I decided I need to understand Mike> how vlans work and how to set them up properly with this Mike> setup. I would like to start by understanding the default setup Mike> and what role the default bridge br0 plays in that setup and Mike> then move on from there. Can you explain (or show a diagram) of your network? So in my case, I've been starting to play around with VLANs as well, but since my wife and kids are working from home, along with me, it's hard to find time to possibly break the network screwing around with VLANs. The basic idea is that packets are tagged with the VLANid they are supposed to be presented to. So on a switch port, it will either be on all VLANs, or will only pass traffic for one or more specific VLANS. I have TP-Link EAP-EAP225 WAPs (Wireless Access Points) at my house. I finally gave up on my old Netgear WNDR3700v1,2 routers I had running DD-WRT, but only using them as WAPs. I have a PCEngines APU4 running as my firewall, running OPNsense. I like keeping these things seperate. My core switch is an ancient Dell PowerConnect 5324 with 24 1gb ports. And a small TP-link switch upstairs since I only have one path up from the basement. Anyway... I mean to setup VLANs as well, but the possibility of breaking things has stopped me for all of 2020 basically. Heh. since the Linksys E4200 only has four internal ports, I'm pretty certain you're running a switch or two behind it. So what I would do as a first step would be to setup a small switch on a single port, and set up that port on the E4200 to be in VLAN 10. Then make sure you route traffic to that VLAN. So I'd also make VLAN 10 be the subnet 192.168.10.0/24, to keep it all simple. Put a RaspberryPi or somethingh where you can access it directly, then configure it for that subnet and see if you can ping and pass traffic. At that point, you can setup things so that VLAN 10 can only send traffic to the internet, and not to any other VLANs. But I don't know how good the E4200s with DD-WRT are in terms of supporting VLANs. I seem to remember it was kinda flaky and problematic. The real trick is when you want to pass multiple VLANs down a single cable, and have the switches at each end (or a linux server with VMs and VLANs configured) pass traffic properly. Then it starts getting more hairy. I'd offer more ideas, but we really need to know more about your network setup (and your needs/desires) to make it work. I too want to put my IOT things onto a seperate VLAN on my WAPs, so I can isolate that traffic, I just need to setup the core switch properly. Ideally while everyone else is gone for a day. Or two. *grin* Please keep posting, I'm sure a bunch of us are in the same boat. John

Jan. 5, 2021

dd-wrt and vlans

by Mike Long

I have been lurking on this list of a long time and have learned much over the years. Now I'm hoping someone can point me to a good resource to understaning vlans. For some reason networking configurations beyond the most basic setups have never been something I really have gotten my head around. Databases are more my thing. I have a Linksys E4200 router that I have flashed with the latest dd-wrt v24-40559_NEWD-2_K2.6_mini. My objective is to setup multiple vlans with multiple SSID's associated with the vlans to segragate my business, home, and iot devices from one another. After trying this tutorial https://www.ciscopress.com/articles/article.asp?p=1730493 and reseting the router many times I decided I need to understand how vlans work and how to set them up properly with this setup. I would like to start by understanding the default setup and what role the default bridge br0 plays in that setup and then move on from there. Thanks in advance, Mike

Jan. 5, 2021

Re: Web server & gallery & auto-backup

by Richard Klein

The software might work. I don't have a budget for hardware. It would be nice to not run servers on my workstation, but it is what it is. On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 6:13 PM Aljerin Butler,Jr. via WLUG < wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hi Rich, > > Maybe you can try this <https://itsfoss.com/nextcloud/> on one of these > <https://nextcloud.com/devices/>. You could then do a lot more than share > photos. > > > On Saturday, January 2, 2021, 7:04:54 PM EST, Richard Klein via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > > I'm looking for a replacement for Google Photos. I've gotten used to my > mobile devices automatically backing up my photos to the cloud and then > being able to share a link to those photos in places that have limited > storage, such as free Slacks. > > I finally got off my butt and got my phone to backup photos to my Plex > server, but I can't share a link to those photos on Slack. Also, the Plex > app seems to be crashing on my tablet, but I haven't tried to troubleshoot > that yet. > > I guess that means I should set up a web server. I don't see myself > maintaining a full website; I mostly just want to archive and share my > pictures. I'm running Debian. What specific packages do you guys like? > > -- > Rich > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DBG5Q… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DD4VV… >

Jan. 4, 2021

Re: [EXT] Re: Web server & gallery & auto-backup

by Krichevsky, Nicholas J.

I can give a huge +1 for NextCloud. I use it for tons of things on my NAS. Fantastic little piece of software. ________________________________ From: Aljerin Butler,Jr. via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 6:06 PM To: Richard Klein via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Cc: Aljerin Butler,Jr. <albutlerjr(a)yahoo.com> Subject: [EXT] [WLUG] Re: Web server & gallery & auto-backup Hi Rich, Maybe you can try this<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fitsfoss.c…> on one of these<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnextcloud…>. You could then do a lot more than share photos. On Saturday, January 2, 2021, 7:04:54 PM EST, Richard Klein via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: I'm looking for a replacement for Google Photos. I've gotten used to my mobile devices automatically backing up my photos to the cloud and then being able to share a link to those photos in places that have limited storage, such as free Slacks. I finally got off my butt and got my phone to backup photos to my Plex server, but I can't share a link to those photos on Slack. Also, the Plex app seems to be crashing on my tablet, but I haven't tried to troubleshoot that yet. I guess that means I should set up a web server. I don't see myself maintaining a full website; I mostly just want to archive and share my pictures. I'm running Debian. What specific packages do you guys like? -- Rich _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org<mailto:wlug@lists.wlug.org> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org<mailto:wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DBG5Q…<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…>

Jan. 4, 2021

Re: Web server & gallery & auto-backup

by Aljerin Butler,Jr.

Hi Rich, Maybe you can try this on one of these. You could then do a lot more than share photos. On Saturday, January 2, 2021, 7:04:54 PM EST, Richard Klein via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: I'm looking for a replacement for Google Photos. I've gotten used to my mobile devices automatically backing up my photos to the cloud and then being able to share a link to those photos in places that have limited storage, such as free Slacks. I finally got off my butt and got my phone to backup photos to my Plex server, but I can't share a link to those photos on Slack. Also, the Plex app seems to be crashing on my tablet, but I haven't tried to troubleshoot that yet. I guess that means I should set up a web server. I don't see myself maintaining a full website; I mostly just want to archive and share my pictures. I'm running Debian. What specific packages do you guys like? -- Rich _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DBG5Q…

Jan. 4, 2021

Re: [EXT] Urban planning software

by Krichevsky, Nicholas J.

I have not used it myself, but LibreCAD<https://librecad.org/> looks like what you may want. ________________________________ From: joshua.gage.stone--- via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 4:55 PM To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Cc: joshua.gage.stone(a)gmail.com <joshua.gage.stone(a)gmail.com> Subject: [EXT] [WLUG] Urban planning software Hey everyone! I've been taking interest in urban planning recently, and figured I'd like to try visualizing street layouts. I'd like to mock up roads, parking spaces, intersections, sidewalkes, etc, but I'm not sure where to start. As far as I'm aware, AutoCAD Civil 3D and SketchUp are fairly popular applications in the field, but I'm interested in something that's FOSS. Does anyone have suggestions? Looking forward to hearing from you all, and I hope you're all having a good start to the new year! - Josh _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail… Change Settings: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail… Web Forum/Archive: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…

Jan. 4, 2021

Re: Urban planning software

by Aljerin Butler,Jr.

Hi Joshua, I don't know of any specific software packages, but you can try looking here. Al Butler On Sunday, January 3, 2021, 4:56:07 PM EST, joshua.gage.stone--- via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: Hey everyone! I've been taking interest in urban planning recently, and figured I'd like to try visualizing street layouts. I'd like to mock up roads, parking spaces, intersections, sidewalkes, etc, but I'm not sure where to start. As far as I'm aware, AutoCAD Civil 3D and SketchUp are fairly popular applications in the field, but I'm interested in something that's FOSS. Does anyone have suggestions? Looking forward to hearing from you all, and I hope you're all having a good start to the new year! - Josh _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/KIIIF…

Jan. 4, 2021

gmail issues?

by Chuck Anderson

Is anyone having issues getting bounced emails from gmail? https://techcrunch.com/2020/12/15/gmail-is-a-little-broken-right-now-one-da…

Jan. 4, 2021

Re: PLEX

by Joseph G

Hi Ron, For your next media center build check out the Jellyfin. It's free software (community focused) and has privacy baked in. https://jellyfin.org/ Thanks, Joe On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 9:58 AM hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I played around with the PLEX "app" the other day, I downloaded it from > the Ubuntu Software Center, and a PLEX app onto my Roku. I had a movie > file that I placed in a designated folder and could easily watch it on > the TV through Roku. I seems like a very slick (works well, easy to > use) system. > > My question to you all is, can anyone tell me about the privacy > factors? Looking on line gives me conflicting information. Does > running PLEX on my PC give that company potential access to anything on > my PC? > > > Ron > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/6GMP2… >

Jan. 4, 2021

Urban planning software

by joshua.gage.stone＠gmail.com

Hey everyone! I've been taking interest in urban planning recently, and figured I'd like to try visualizing street layouts. I'd like to mock up roads, parking spaces, intersections, sidewalkes, etc, but I'm not sure where to start. As far as I'm aware, AutoCAD Civil 3D and SketchUp are fairly popular applications in the field, but I'm interested in something that's FOSS. Does anyone have suggestions? Looking forward to hearing from you all, and I hope you're all having a good start to the new year! - Josh

Jan. 3, 2021

Re: PLEX

by Richard Klein

Yeah. I'm in Windows right now, but I think I run "service plexmediaserver restart" after installing an update, so "service plexmediaserver stop" would probably work. On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 1:10 PM Sebastian Courtney via WLUG < wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Assuming Plex server hasn’t changed too much, last I was using it on Linux > killing it didn’t damage it at all. > > I believe it is still called “plexmediaserver” > > I’ll have to check in the web interface if there is a more proper way to > shut it down. > > On Jan 3, 2021, at 12:04, hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > > > thanks, Rich: another thing, I can get it to run fine, but can't figure > out how to 'properly' shut it off > ...on line descriptions of how to do it do not match what I see here > On 1/3/21 10:06 AM, Richard Klein via WLUG wrote: > > The server can ping databases to get cover art and synopses for your > movies, but I'm pretty sure you can turn that off. I don't have a > definitive answer, but I think that's the extent of access to files on your > PC. > > On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 9:58 AM hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> I played around with the PLEX "app" the other day, I downloaded it from >> the Ubuntu Software Center, and a PLEX app onto my Roku. I had a movie >> file that I placed in a designated folder and could easily watch it on >> the TV through Roku. I seems like a very slick (works well, easy to >> use) system. >> >> My question to you all is, can anyone tell me about the privacy >> factors? Looking on line gives me conflicting information. Does >> running PLEX on my PC give that company potential access to anything on >> my PC? >> >> >> Ron >> >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/6GMP2… >> > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/5L2YP… > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ALUS5… > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/VA6EB… >

Jan. 3, 2021

Re: PLEX

by Sebastian Courtney

Assuming Plex server hasn’t changed too much, last I was using it on Linux killing it didn’t damage it at all. I believe it is still called “plexmediaserver” I’ll have to check in the web interface if there is a more proper way to shut it down. > On Jan 3, 2021, at 12:04, hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > > thanks, Rich: another thing, I can get it to run fine, but can't figure out how to 'properly' shut it off > ...on line descriptions of how to do it do not match what I see here > > On 1/3/21 10:06 AM, Richard Klein via WLUG wrote: >> The server can ping databases to get cover art and synopses for your movies, but I'm pretty sure you can turn that off. I don't have a definitive answer, but I think that's the extent of access to files on your PC. >> >> On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 9:58 AM hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >>> I played around with the PLEX "app" the other day, I downloaded it from >>> the Ubuntu Software Center, and a PLEX app onto my Roku. I had a movie >>> file that I placed in a designated folder and could easily watch it on >>> the TV through Roku. I seems like a very slick (works well, easy to >>> use) system. >>> >>> My question to you all is, can anyone tell me about the privacy >>> factors? Looking on line gives me conflicting information. Does >>> running PLEX on my PC give that company potential access to anything on >>> my PC? >>> >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/6GMP2… >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/5L2YP… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ALUS5…

Jan. 3, 2021

Re: PLEX

by hammerron

thanks, Rich: another thing, I can get it to run fine, but can't figure out how to 'properly' shut it off ...on line descriptions of how to do it do not match what I see here On 1/3/21 10:06 AM, Richard Klein via WLUG wrote: > The server can ping databases to get cover art and synopses for your > movies, but I'm pretty sure you can turn that off. I don't have a > definitive answer, but I think that's the extent of access to files on > your PC. > > On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 9:58 AM hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > <mailto:wlug@lists.wlug.org>> wrote: > > I played around with the PLEX "app" the other day, I downloaded it > from > the Ubuntu Software Center, and a PLEX app onto my Roku. I had a > movie > file that I placed in a designated folder and could easily watch > it on > the TV through Roku. I seems like a very slick (works well, easy to > use) system. > > My question to you all is, can anyone tell me about the privacy > factors? Looking on line gives me conflicting information. Does > running PLEX on my PC give that company potential access to > anything on > my PC? > > > Ron > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org <mailto:wlug@lists.wlug.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > <mailto:wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org> > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/6GMP2… > > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/5L2YP…

Jan. 3, 2021

Lap Top with 28 GB HD

by hammerron

Very trivial, but anyone is curious I wound up putting Xumbuntu on the machine. It is not a speed demon but run smoothly. Ron

Jan. 3, 2021

Re: PLEX

by Richard Klein

The server can ping databases to get cover art and synopses for your movies, but I'm pretty sure you can turn that off. I don't have a definitive answer, but I think that's the extent of access to files on your PC. On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 9:58 AM hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I played around with the PLEX "app" the other day, I downloaded it from > the Ubuntu Software Center, and a PLEX app onto my Roku. I had a movie > file that I placed in a designated folder and could easily watch it on > the TV through Roku. I seems like a very slick (works well, easy to > use) system. > > My question to you all is, can anyone tell me about the privacy > factors? Looking on line gives me conflicting information. Does > running PLEX on my PC give that company potential access to anything on > my PC? > > > Ron > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/6GMP2… >

Jan. 3, 2021

PLEX

by hammerron

I played around with the PLEX "app" the other day, I downloaded it from the Ubuntu Software Center, and a PLEX app onto my Roku. I had a movie file that I placed in a designated folder and could easily watch it on the TV through Roku. I seems like a very slick (works well, easy to use) system. My question to you all is, can anyone tell me about the privacy factors? Looking on line gives me conflicting information. Does running PLEX on my PC give that company potential access to anything on my PC? Ron

Jan. 3, 2021

Web server & gallery & auto-backup

by Richard Klein

I'm looking for a replacement for Google Photos. I've gotten used to my mobile devices automatically backing up my photos to the cloud and then being able to share a link to those photos in places that have limited storage, such as free Slacks. I finally got off my butt and got my phone to backup photos to my Plex server, but I can't share a link to those photos on Slack. Also, the Plex app seems to be crashing on my tablet, but I haven't tried to troubleshoot that yet. I guess that means I should set up a web server. I don't see myself maintaining a full website; I mostly just want to archive and share my pictures. I'm running Debian. What specific packages do you guys like? -- Rich

Jan. 3, 2021

Re: Happy New Year and more fun is in store for 2021

by Mher Mnatsakanyan

Happy New Year everybody Respectfully, Mher Mnatsakanyan On Thursday, 31 December 2020, Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey Everybody! > > 2020 has been a hell of a thing. Thankfully WLUG continues to endure and I > don't see the fun ending anytime soon. I suspect that for the foreseeable > future we'll still be virtual, but there will be a day we're all in the > same room together.. > > Stay safe and I hope to see you all soon on a Jitsi call! > > Later, > Tim. > WLUG President > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". >

Jan. 1, 2021

Happy New Year and more fun is in store for 2021

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody! 2020 has been a hell of a thing. Thankfully WLUG continues to endure and I don't see the fun ending anytime soon. I suspect that for the foreseeable future we'll still be virtual, but there will be a day we're all in the same room together.. Stay safe and I hope to see you all soon on a Jitsi call! Later, Tim. WLUG President -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Dec. 31, 2020

Re: Charter internet - lots of drops for others?

by John Stoffel

Hi all, I'd like to report (if I didn't before) that having Charter come up and replace the existing DOCIS 3.1 modem with one that does DOCIS 3.2 seems to have cleaned up and fixed alot of the problems. Or at least when it does drop, it re-connects much much faster so it's less of a pain in the ass. We will see how it all works out once we're all back in school/work full time remote next week. Happy Holidays to you all! John

Dec. 28, 2020

Re: Samba and SELinux

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: Chuck> If you don't have audit2why, first install it: Chuck> # yum install policycoreutils-python Chuck> Then you can run this command and it should tell you why it was Chuck> denied and propose way to fix it: Chuck> # cat /var/log/audit/audit.log* | audit2why Chuck> You can check these SELinux booleans and turn on the one(s) you Chuck> need, perhaps samba_enable_home_dirs or samba_export_all_ro/rw. This is damn genius! I wish there was a version for PAM as well, which is another damn black magic toolkit written by people way too smart for their own good. Keep it simple folks... Chuck> # getsebool -a|grep -i smb Chuck> smbd_anon_write --> off Chuck> # getsebool -a | grep -i samba Chuck> samba_create_home_dirs --> off Chuck> samba_domain_controller --> off Chuck> samba_enable_home_dirs --> off Chuck> samba_export_all_ro --> off Chuck> samba_export_all_rw --> off Chuck> samba_load_libgfapi --> off Chuck> samba_portmapper --> off Chuck> samba_run_unconfined --> off Chuck> samba_share_fusefs --> off Chuck> samba_share_nfs --> off Chuck> sanlock_use_samba --> off Chuck> tmpreaper_use_samba --> off Chuck> use_samba_home_dirs --> off Chuck> virt_use_samba --> off Chuck> e.g. Chuck> # setsebool -P samba_enable_home_dirs=on Chuck> On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 10:19:24PM -0500, Mher Mnatsakanyan via WLUG wrote: >> Hi everyone. >> >> I hope everything is well with all of you and yours. >> >> I have a question and need help please. >> >> I installed a Samba server on CentOS8 which works well. >> >> When I try to mount the share from that Samba server on the client side I >> get a permission denied error. When I set SELinux from Enforcing to >> Permissive mode it seems to be mounting and the permission denied error >> goes away. Any suggestions how I can do the same with SELinux enforcing >> mode? >> >> Thank you very much in advance. >> >> Respectfully, >> Mher Mnatsakanyan Chuck> _______________________________________________ Chuck> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org Chuck> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Chuck> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Chuck> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Chuck> Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/7I7X4…

Dec. 25, 2020

Re: Samba and SELinux

by Mher Mnatsakanyan

Cool On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 23:30, Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I think you should not need samba_export_all_ro/rw if you set > samba_share_t on the folder(s) you want to export (as long as the > shared folders are not standard directories like /usr). It just makes > things too permissive, negating some of the protection SELinux > provides by allowing Samba to read/write every file on the system, not > just the ones you've labelled samba_share_t. > > See: > > https://selinuxproject.org/page/SambaRecipes > > You may actually need a different fcontext pattern match to cover > subdirectories: > > # semanage fcontext -a -t samba_share_t "/samba(/.*?)" > # restorecon -R -v /samba > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 11:05:11PM -0500, Mher Mnatsakanyan via WLUG wrote: > > I guess I asked this question too early. I figured this out running the > > following commands and the mount worked on the client side. > > > > # setsebool -P samba_export_all_ro=1 samba_export_all_rw=1 > > # semanage fcontext -a -t samba_share_t "/samba" > > # restorecon -v /samba > > > > Respectfully, > > Mher Mnatsakanyan > > > > On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 22:19, Mher Mnatsakanyan <mnatsmher(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > Hi everyone. > > > > > > I hope everything is well with all of you and yours. > > > > > > I have a question and need help please. > > > > > > I installed a Samba server on CentOS8 which works well. > > > > > > When I try to mount the share from that Samba server on the client > side I > > > get a permission denied error. When I set SELinux from Enforcing to > > > Permissive mode it seems to be mounting and the permission denied error > > > goes away. Any suggestions how I can do the same with SELinux enforcing > > > mode? > > > > > > Thank you very much in advance. > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > Mher Mnatsakanyan > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/TEJE6… >

Dec. 20, 2020

Samba and SELinux

by Chuck Anderson

I think you should not need samba_export_all_ro/rw if you set samba_share_t on the folder(s) you want to export (as long as the shared folders are not standard directories like /usr). It just makes things too permissive, negating some of the protection SELinux provides by allowing Samba to read/write every file on the system, not just the ones you've labelled samba_share_t. See: https://selinuxproject.org/page/SambaRecipes You may actually need a different fcontext pattern match to cover subdirectories: # semanage fcontext -a -t samba_share_t "/samba(/.*?)" # restorecon -R -v /samba On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 11:05:11PM -0500, Mher Mnatsakanyan via WLUG wrote: > I guess I asked this question too early. I figured this out running the > following commands and the mount worked on the client side. > > # setsebool -P samba_export_all_ro=1 samba_export_all_rw=1 > # semanage fcontext -a -t samba_share_t "/samba" > # restorecon -v /samba > > Respectfully, > Mher Mnatsakanyan > > On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 22:19, Mher Mnatsakanyan <mnatsmher(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi everyone. > > > > I hope everything is well with all of you and yours. > > > > I have a question and need help please. > > > > I installed a Samba server on CentOS8 which works well. > > > > When I try to mount the share from that Samba server on the client side I > > get a permission denied error. When I set SELinux from Enforcing to > > Permissive mode it seems to be mounting and the permission denied error > > goes away. Any suggestions how I can do the same with SELinux enforcing > > mode? > > > > Thank you very much in advance. > > > > Respectfully, > > Mher Mnatsakanyan

Dec. 20, 2020

Re: Samba and SELinux

by Mher Mnatsakanyan

This is a perfect explanation Chuck. Thanks a lot :-) On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 23:24, Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > If you don't have audit2why, first install it: > > # yum install policycoreutils-python > > Then you can run this command and it should tell you why it was denied and > propose way to fix it: > > # cat /var/log/audit/audit.log* | audit2why > > You can check these SELinux booleans and turn on the one(s) you need, > perhaps samba_enable_home_dirs or samba_export_all_ro/rw. > > # getsebool -a|grep -i smb > smbd_anon_write --> off > # getsebool -a | grep -i samba > samba_create_home_dirs --> off > samba_domain_controller --> off > samba_enable_home_dirs --> off > samba_export_all_ro --> off > samba_export_all_rw --> off > samba_load_libgfapi --> off > samba_portmapper --> off > samba_run_unconfined --> off > samba_share_fusefs --> off > samba_share_nfs --> off > sanlock_use_samba --> off > tmpreaper_use_samba --> off > use_samba_home_dirs --> off > virt_use_samba --> off > > e.g. > > # setsebool -P samba_enable_home_dirs=on > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 10:19:24PM -0500, Mher Mnatsakanyan via WLUG wrote: > > Hi everyone. > > > > I hope everything is well with all of you and yours. > > > > I have a question and need help please. > > > > I installed a Samba server on CentOS8 which works well. > > > > When I try to mount the share from that Samba server on the client side I > > get a permission denied error. When I set SELinux from Enforcing to > > Permissive mode it seems to be mounting and the permission denied error > > goes away. Any suggestions how I can do the same with SELinux enforcing > > mode? > > > > Thank you very much in advance. > > > > Respectfully, > > Mher Mnatsakanyan > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/7I7X4… >

Dec. 20, 2020

Samba and SELinux

by Chuck Anderson

If you don't have audit2why, first install it: # yum install policycoreutils-python Then you can run this command and it should tell you why it was denied and propose way to fix it: # cat /var/log/audit/audit.log* | audit2why You can check these SELinux booleans and turn on the one(s) you need, perhaps samba_enable_home_dirs or samba_export_all_ro/rw. # getsebool -a|grep -i smb smbd_anon_write --> off # getsebool -a | grep -i samba samba_create_home_dirs --> off samba_domain_controller --> off samba_enable_home_dirs --> off samba_export_all_ro --> off samba_export_all_rw --> off samba_load_libgfapi --> off samba_portmapper --> off samba_run_unconfined --> off samba_share_fusefs --> off samba_share_nfs --> off sanlock_use_samba --> off tmpreaper_use_samba --> off use_samba_home_dirs --> off virt_use_samba --> off e.g. # setsebool -P samba_enable_home_dirs=on On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 10:19:24PM -0500, Mher Mnatsakanyan via WLUG wrote: > Hi everyone. > > I hope everything is well with all of you and yours. > > I have a question and need help please. > > I installed a Samba server on CentOS8 which works well. > > When I try to mount the share from that Samba server on the client side I > get a permission denied error. When I set SELinux from Enforcing to > Permissive mode it seems to be mounting and the permission denied error > goes away. Any suggestions how I can do the same with SELinux enforcing > mode? > > Thank you very much in advance. > > Respectfully, > Mher Mnatsakanyan

Dec. 20, 2020

Re: Gamerzilla at GamingOnLinux

by Mher Mnatsakanyan

I guess I asked this question too early. I figured this out running the following commands and the mount worked on the client side. # setsebool -P samba_export_all_ro=1 samba_export_all_rw=1 # semanage fcontext -a -t samba_share_t "/samba" # restorecon -v /samba Respectfully, Mher Mnatsakanyan On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 22:19, Mher Mnatsakanyan <mnatsmher(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi everyone. > > I hope everything is well with all of you and yours. > > I have a question and need help please. > > I installed a Samba server on CentOS8 which works well. > > When I try to mount the share from that Samba server on the client side I > get a permission denied error. When I set SELinux from Enforcing to > Permissive mode it seems to be mounting and the permission denied error > goes away. Any suggestions how I can do the same with SELinux enforcing > mode? > > Thank you very much in advance. > > Respectfully, > Mher Mnatsakanyan > > On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 at 06:33, Dennis Payne via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> I wrote an article for GamingOnLinux about the current state of >> Gamerzilla. >> >> >> https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2020/12/open-source-game-achievements-with-ga… >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Dennis Payne >> dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com >> https://social.freegamedev.net/channel/dulsi >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/CK65W… >> >

Dec. 20, 2020

Re: Gamerzilla at GamingOnLinux

by Mher Mnatsakanyan

Hi everyone. I hope everything is well with all of you and yours. I have a question and need help please. I installed a Samba server on CentOS8 which works well. When I try to mount the share from that Samba server on the client side I get a permission denied error. When I set SELinux from Enforcing to Permissive mode it seems to be mounting and the permission denied error goes away. Any suggestions how I can do the same with SELinux enforcing mode? Thank you very much in advance. Respectfully, Mher Mnatsakanyan On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 at 06:33, Dennis Payne via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I wrote an article for GamingOnLinux about the current state of Gamerzilla. > > > https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2020/12/open-source-game-achievements-with-ga… > > > > -- > > Dennis Payne > dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com > https://social.freegamedev.net/channel/dulsi > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/CK65W… >

Dec. 20, 2020

Gamerzilla at GamingOnLinux

by Dennis Payne

I wrote an article for GamingOnLinux about the current state of Gamerzilla. https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2020/12/open-source-game-achievements-with-ga… -- Dennis Payne dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com https://social.freegamedev.net/channel/dulsi

Dec. 12, 2020

Re: Charter internet - lots of drops for others?

by John Stoffel

So an update on my Charter issues. I called them up (which took way too long to find the number on the web site!) and they looked at the line and they see errors, so a tech is coming out monday afternoon to look things over. Some days I feel stupid, since they smart suggestion to check if my land line (through charter on the cable modem) was also dead when the internet connection went down was spot on. So it's not my router or anything like that, it's their gear/line which needs looking at. As someone else said, it could be water somewhere in the system. They replaced the link from the box on the street to my house a couple of years ago, so maybe the chipmunks have been nibbling on that somewhere too. Sigh... At least I've made some progress! John

Dec. 10, 2020

Re: Lap Top with 28 GB HD

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "hammerron" == hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: hammerron> I recently got a Dell notebook/laptop. It is smaller than hammerron> a typical lap top (notebook?) and is very light in weight. hammerron> The hard drive is only 28 GB ! It currently runs Windows 10 hammerron> and has only 4 GB of free space on the hard drive. It hammerron> seems to just hang, if I try to update the Windows 10. Are you sure it's an SSD in there? It might be eMMC if it's a Chromebook like device, which is possibly sounds like. But as someone else said, the dell support site is really good. If it's an SSD in there, just moving to bigger one might be the way to go, they're pretty cheap these days at the smaller sizes. hammerron> I am thinking of attempting to install Xubuntu to see if it hammerron> runs. Tried Puppy Linux (a light weight distro) before and hammerron> think I'd like to go differently. I got the machine for hammerron> free so will not be disappointed if this goes nowhere. If hammerron> anyone has any ideas I'm all ears. (I might try to do this hammerron> install tonight) With only 4gb of RAM, it's going to be crappy for web browsing. It's amazing now how my 8gb desktop slows to a crawl and starts swapping if I have firefox and shotwell and some xterms open at the same time. Ugh! Trying to make the meeting tonight, but probably won't stay long.

Dec. 10, 2020

Re: Generic VGA Driver, wireless routers, and Thursday meeting

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Keith" == Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: Keith> John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> Can I tell you to just go and buy a cheap PCIe graphics card made in >> the last 10 years? *grin* Keith> Your advice may be good, but I don't like your attitude. One Keith> of the things I like about Linux is that you are not forced to Keith> buy the latest whiz-bang computer. It runs just fine on old Keith> hardware. Getting it working is half the fun. Sure! I agree that getting it working is half the fun. I've been planning on upgrading my main machine since it's 12 years old now (AMD Phenom II X4 945 running at 800-3000Mhz) but I'd have to find some solution to replace my old Cyclades PCI 8 port serial card that I have in the system. PCIe to PCI adaptor? New PCIe 4 port serial card? USB to Serial hanging off the back? But sometimes, if you go dumpster diving for old hardware, then you're going to be forced to stay with old distributions, because people won't support the older stuff past a certain point. I'm talking core developers here. Especially for older graphics cards. It just gets too painful as the state of the art has changed. Heck, I ran a Matrox G200 card for years! Loved that card, ran great. But eventually it wasn't supported and it was so old and slow it wasn't worth it. Keith> See "Dumpster Diving for Linux" Keith> http://www.free-comp-shop.com/none/dumpster.html Great resource! But realize you're going to be running older distributions. And with the move to https and updated SSL requirements, it's going to be harder to use those older systems, unless you can work through a proxy that will encrypt for you. Keith> Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> The meeting is going to be at our usual virtual hang out.. >> https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA @7pm. Keith> I hope to be there. >> I don't have a topic yet, I suspect something natural will emerge. Keith> I don't have a suitable presentation, but I have written something Keith> about my latest Linux project. Maybe it will be a topic. Keith> See "How can a wireless router be added to a wired netork?" Keith> http://www.free-comp-shop.com/none/wireless.html Keith> Your advice is welcome and maybe useful. A few years ago one Keith> of the WLUG memebers (Frank Sweetser?) saved my bacon after Keith> my Idiot Service Provider suddenly decided it would no longer Keith> be convenient for them to continue running a secondary name Keith> server for me. They didn't even reduce my bill by the amount Keith> they had been charging for that service. The price remained Keith> the same, but now it was for extra email addresses that I had not Keith> requested and did not need. Keith> A few years later they quit providing any mailboxes at all. Keith> I think they would really rather just charge me for sending the Keith> invoice. To be fair, that seems to be hard for them. Keith> Frank (?) told me about Hurricane Electric, who run a secondary Keith> name server for free just for good will and advertising. Keith> They are good people, this plug is all I have ever done for them. Keith> https://dns.he.net/ Keith> -- Keith Keith> _______________________________________________ Keith> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org Keith> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Keith> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Keith> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Keith> Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/M5DNG…

Dec. 10, 2020

Re: Lap Top with 28 GB HD

by Steven Thibault

If you’re looking for light weight and to tinker at a deeper level extending Lexi’s thoughts, I’ve been using Yocto Linux for a project at work, and have wanted to dabble on my own with it. Its a bit to get started, but gives you complete control over the OS. And the default build is very light weight, with some pre-configured images with levels of features up to a wayland/Weston desktop. Similarly, there’s Buildroot. I’m told its similar to Yocto, but easier to get started. The upside if complete and total control over what’s on the system just like LFC. The downside, you have to build and configure everything with a recipe to get it on the image, and updating involves a build and manual copy of the new packages or a complete rebuild. Though I learned a lot about the underpinning of Linux through Yocto. You’ll have to build the image on a separate machine and dd it onto the new one. yoctoproject.org <http://yoctoproject.org/> > On Dec 10, 2020, at 8:28 AM, Lexi Haley via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > For a long time I used Xubuntu - liking the debian underpinnings and light(er) requirements. However, then I dabbled in Linux from Scratch - which I wasn't able to leverage into a daily system for my needs; Nor did I do well sussing out gentoo. Then, about 7 years ago, I got into Tiny Core Linux - and I've been very pleased with it since. > > If you're sampling distros, perhaps give it a look? http://tinycorelinux.net/ <http://tinycorelinux.net/> > On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 8:17 AM Joseph G via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org <mailto:wlug@lists.wlug.org>> wrote: > Hi Ron, > > I'd find the Dell Express Service code or Service Tag and then go to https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us <https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us> If you grab the latest copy of Dell support Assist or Dell Command Update it will pull down the latest firmware (BIOS, etc.) updates. I'd do these before installing Xubuntu. Dell generally uses quality components so I've not had problems in the past w/ installing/running Xubuntu. > > Good luck, > Joe > > On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 8:05 AM hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org <mailto:wlug@lists.wlug.org>> wrote: > I recently got a Dell notebook/laptop. It is smaller than a typical lap > top (notebook?) and is very light in weight. The hard drive is only 28 > GB ! It currently runs Windows 10 and has only 4 GB of free space on the > hard drive. It seems to just hang, if I try to update the Windows 10. > > I am thinking of attempting to install Xubuntu to see if it runs. Tried > Puppy Linux (a light weight distro) before and think I'd like to go > differently. I got the machine for free so will not be disappointed if > this goes nowhere. If anyone has any ideas I'm all ears. (I might try > to do this install tonight) > > Ron > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org <mailto:wlug@lists.wlug.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org <mailto:wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org> > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ <https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/> > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ <https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/> > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/UNR34… <https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/UNR34…> > > > -- > -- > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org <mailto:wlug@lists.wlug.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org <mailto:wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org> > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ <https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/> > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ <https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/> > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/KHIOU… <https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/KHIOU…> > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/3A6RL…

Dec. 10, 2020

Re: Lap Top with 28 GB HD

by Lexi Haley

For a long time I used Xubuntu - liking the debian underpinnings and light(er) requirements. However, then I dabbled in Linux from Scratch - which I wasn't able to leverage into a daily system for my needs; Nor did I do well sussing out gentoo. Then, about 7 years ago, I got into Tiny Core Linux - and I've been very pleased with it since. If you're sampling distros, perhaps give it a look? http://tinycorelinux.net/ On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 8:17 AM Joseph G via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hi Ron, > > I'd find the Dell Express Service code or Service Tag and then go to > https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us If you grab the latest copy of > Dell support Assist or Dell Command Update it will pull down the latest > firmware (BIOS, etc.) updates. I'd do these before installing Xubuntu. Dell > generally uses quality components so I've not had problems in the past w/ > installing/running Xubuntu. > > Good luck, > Joe > > On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 8:05 AM hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> I recently got a Dell notebook/laptop. It is smaller than a typical lap >> top (notebook?) and is very light in weight. The hard drive is only 28 >> GB ! It currently runs Windows 10 and has only 4 GB of free space on the >> hard drive. It seems to just hang, if I try to update the Windows 10. >> >> I am thinking of attempting to install Xubuntu to see if it runs. Tried >> Puppy Linux (a light weight distro) before and think I'd like to go >> differently. I got the machine for free so will not be disappointed if >> this goes nowhere. If anyone has any ideas I'm all ears. (I might try >> to do this install tonight) >> >> Ron >> >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/UNR34… >> > > > -- > -- > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/KHIOU… >

Dec. 10, 2020

Re: Lap Top with 28 GB HD

by Joseph G

Hi Ron, I'd find the Dell Express Service code or Service Tag and then go to https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us If you grab the latest copy of Dell support Assist or Dell Command Update it will pull down the latest firmware (BIOS, etc.) updates. I'd do these before installing Xubuntu. Dell generally uses quality components so I've not had problems in the past w/ installing/running Xubuntu. Good luck, Joe On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 8:05 AM hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I recently got a Dell notebook/laptop. It is smaller than a typical lap > top (notebook?) and is very light in weight. The hard drive is only 28 > GB ! It currently runs Windows 10 and has only 4 GB of free space on the > hard drive. It seems to just hang, if I try to update the Windows 10. > > I am thinking of attempting to install Xubuntu to see if it runs. Tried > Puppy Linux (a light weight distro) before and think I'd like to go > differently. I got the machine for free so will not be disappointed if > this goes nowhere. If anyone has any ideas I'm all ears. (I might try > to do this install tonight) > > Ron > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/UNR34… > -- --

Dec. 10, 2020

Lap Top with 28 GB HD

by hammerron

I recently got a Dell notebook/laptop. It is smaller than a typical lap top (notebook?) and is very light in weight. The hard drive is only 28 GB ! It currently runs Windows 10 and has only 4 GB of free space on the hard drive. It seems to just hang, if I try to update the Windows 10. I am thinking of attempting to install Xubuntu to see if it runs. Tried Puppy Linux (a light weight distro) before and think I'd like to go differently. I got the machine for free so will not be disappointed if this goes nowhere. If anyone has any ideas I'm all ears. (I might try to do this install tonight) Ron

Dec. 10, 2020

Re: Generic VGA Driver, wireless routers, and Thursday meeting

by Keith Wright

John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Can I tell you to just go and buy a cheap PCIe graphics card made in > the last 10 years? *grin* Your advice may be good, but I don't like your attitude. One of the things I like about Linux is that you are not forced to buy the latest whiz-bang computer. It runs just fine on old hardware. Getting it working is half the fun. See "Dumpster Diving for Linux" http://www.free-comp-shop.com/none/dumpster.html --- Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > The meeting is going to be at our usual virtual hang out.. > https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA @7pm. I hope to be there. > I don't have a topic yet, I suspect something natural will emerge. I don't have a suitable presentation, but I have written something about my latest Linux project. Maybe it will be a topic. See "How can a wireless router be added to a wired netork?" http://www.free-comp-shop.com/none/wireless.html Your advice is welcome and maybe useful. A few years ago one of the WLUG memebers (Frank Sweetser?) saved my bacon after my Idiot Service Provider suddenly decided it would no longer be convenient for them to continue running a secondary name server for me. They didn't even reduce my bill by the amount they had been charging for that service. The price remained the same, but now it was for extra email addresses that I had not requested and did not need. A few years later they quit providing any mailboxes at all. I think they would really rather just charge me for sending the invoice. To be fair, that seems to be hard for them. Frank (?) told me about Hurricane Electric, who run a secondary name server for free just for good will and advertising. They are good people, this plug is all I have ever done for them. https://dns.he.net/ -- Keith

Dec. 10, 2020

Re: Charter internet - lots of drops for others?

by Jared Greenwald

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 5:18 PM John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >>>>> "Randy" == Randy Cole via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > Randy> When we had a customer-owned Motorola Sharkfin-style modem, > Randy> which was either Docsis 1.0 or pre-Docsis, Charter > Randy> Communications dba Spectrum started deliberately screwing > Randy> with the connection; It would go down about once a day, > Randy> right around like 8PM or midnight, and you would have to > Randy> powercycle it and it would work. Finally called them, they > Randy> wanted us to upgrade to one of their cable modems, which > Randy> they provide for "free". Didn't send an email or a letter > Randy> like a normal company would but forced you to call them!! > > I too used to have one of those, and it worked great for years, then > they forced us to use their own modem. > > Randy> In our area they give you a www.hitrontech.com Docsys 3.1 eMTA > Randy> EN2251 PC15 modem with two telephone connectors and a > Randy> theoretical battery-backup connector (does anybody use the > Randy> battery backup or have their cablemodem on a UPS? Does it even > Randy> work?) It's physically way larger than it should be. All web > Randy> pages, configuration, logs are disabled so the customer cannot > Randy> troubleshoot anything themselves. Can log in to your > Randy> MySpectrum app and "check the connection" which sometimes can > Randy> wake the thing up when it is disconnected. > > This is what I've got right now too. Next time there's an outage, > I'll check if my phone (via charter) is also down or not. If it is, > then that points to a HiTron or cable issue. I did have my outside > cable replaced a few years ago due to noise issues, but they took care > of it. > > Randy> I've read on the internetzzz that you can have problems such as > Randy> failing analog amplifiers in their cable plant cause hard to > Randy> diagnose intermittent problems, and also that Docsis 3.1 is > Randy> more sensitive to line quality than Docsis 3.0. My biggest > Randy> concerns include the rising price of their internet service. > > Me too, I'm getting ready to dump all but internet service since all > we mostly get is spam calls on the land line. Why pay for it when we > all have cells? But... it's the number everyone knows about for > almost 20 years. It would be a bit painful unless I got it turned > into a virtual number that rang my cell. But then I'd get tons of > spam calls. > Sign up for Google Voice and migrate the number over. Then you can add your mobile number to it. Also, they have an option to always screen calls unless they come from a known pool of contacts or just shunt calls to voicemail in other cases (which doesn't ring you at all). When we moved a few years ago, we lived somewhere temporarily while we were building our house and I did this with the number we had for our land line at our previous place which was the same for almost 15 years. It really helps keep things sane to not have to update all that if you move. > > So next time it happens, I need to try the land line and look at the > cable modem lights (only two on there, fucking hate that box) and then > start escalating with Charter. Assuming I can get someone on the > line. > > I'd even be willing to buy my own, instead of paying their fees. > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/LE4ME… >

Dec. 9, 2020

Re: Charter internet - lots of drops for others?

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Randy" == Randy Cole via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: Randy> When we had a customer-owned Motorola Sharkfin-style modem, Randy> which was either Docsis 1.0 or pre-Docsis, Charter Randy> Communications dba Spectrum started deliberately screwing Randy> with the connection; It would go down about once a day, Randy> right around like 8PM or midnight, and you would have to Randy> powercycle it and it would work. Finally called them, they Randy> wanted us to upgrade to one of their cable modems, which Randy> they provide for "free". Didn't send an email or a letter Randy> like a normal company would but forced you to call them!! I too used to have one of those, and it worked great for years, then they forced us to use their own modem. Randy> In our area they give you a www.hitrontech.com Docsys 3.1 eMTA Randy> EN2251 PC15 modem with two telephone connectors and a Randy> theoretical battery-backup connector (does anybody use the Randy> battery backup or have their cablemodem on a UPS? Does it even Randy> work?) It's physically way larger than it should be. All web Randy> pages, configuration, logs are disabled so the customer cannot Randy> troubleshoot anything themselves. Can log in to your Randy> MySpectrum app and "check the connection" which sometimes can Randy> wake the thing up when it is disconnected. This is what I've got right now too. Next time there's an outage, I'll check if my phone (via charter) is also down or not. If it is, then that points to a HiTron or cable issue. I did have my outside cable replaced a few years ago due to noise issues, but they took care of it. Randy> I've read on the internetzzz that you can have problems such as Randy> failing analog amplifiers in their cable plant cause hard to Randy> diagnose intermittent problems, and also that Docsis 3.1 is Randy> more sensitive to line quality than Docsis 3.0. My biggest Randy> concerns include the rising price of their internet service. Me too, I'm getting ready to dump all but internet service since all we mostly get is spam calls on the land line. Why pay for it when we all have cells? But... it's the number everyone knows about for almost 20 years. It would be a bit painful unless I got it turned into a virtual number that rang my cell. But then I'd get tons of spam calls. So next time it happens, I need to try the land line and look at the cable modem lights (only two on there, fucking hate that box) and then start escalating with Charter. Assuming I can get someone on the line. I'd even be willing to buy my own, instead of paying their fees.

Dec. 9, 2020

CentOS Stream

by Chuck Anderson

Here are two emails from the Fedora Development list about what I was just talking about: 1. CentOS Stream as a rolling release *of a stable RHEL branch*. 2. Idea to write an ansible script to upgrade to the point release of packages that RHEL 8.x ship with. ----- Forwarded message from Adam Williamson <adamwill(a)fedoraproject.org> ----- Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 08:52:09 -0800 From: Adam Williamson <adamwill(a)fedoraproject.org> To: Development discussions related to Fedora <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> Subject: Re: End of CentOS Linux: What about Fedora? Return-Path: devel-bounces(a)lists.fedoraproject.org Precedence: list Reply-To: Development discussions related to Fedora <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> On Wed, 2020-12-09 at 14:07 +0100, Jaroslav Prokop wrote: > > If I understood the announcement, it would be a kind of CentOS streams > is rolling release or a release with short > release interval. That does not make my job much easier as someone who > just sets up services and leaves it running. It's a rolling release *of a stable RHEL branch*. You're not getting radical new changes if you run CentOS Stream; you're just getting the changes you'd usually get in RHEL stable point releases (e.g. 8.1, 8.2 etc) but getting them early and as they are produced, rather than in periodic lumps). For some folks / maintenance styles this might still be an issue, but it should work OK in quite a lot of cases. It's not like you're running Rawhide. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA IRC: adamw | Twitter: adamw_ha https://www.happyassassin.net _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org ----- End forwarded message ----- ----- Forwarded message from Gary Buhrmaster <gary.buhrmaster(a)gmail.com> ----- Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 17:08:19 +0000 From: Gary Buhrmaster <gary.buhrmaster(a)gmail.com> To: Development discussions related to Fedora <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> Subject: Re: End of CentOS Linux: What about Fedora? Return-Path: devel-bounces(a)lists.fedoraproject.org Precedence: list Reply-To: Development discussions related to Fedora <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 4:52 PM Adam Williamson <adamwill(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote: > For some folks / maintenance styles this might still be an issue, but > it should work OK in quite a lot of cases. It's not like you're running > Rawhide. For those that want the equivalent of a point release, I would think they should be able to write an ansible script to upgrade to the point release of packages that EL 8.x ship with. A little more work (for someone) to maintain, but I would not be surprised if someone (or a community) decided to take it one. _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org ----- End forwarded message -----

Dec. 9, 2020

Re: Wlug meeting on Thurs. Dec 10th 2020 @7pm.

by Chuck Anderson

Juniper QFX runs Wind River Linux. If you can control your update deployment, you can stay on the same package versions/releases that end up in RHEL. There may be someone working on a tool to make this easier. On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 04:12:24PM -0500, Frank Sweetser wrote: > It depends on the use case. If all you want is a free, reasonably stable > version of RHEL, Centos stream might just be good enough. > > If your goal is to support software that wants RHEL, this could be hit or > miss, as you'll always be running on an approximation of RHEL. You could > say you should always have been just buying RHEL if it's that critical, but > it's now that much less optional. > > I'm also really curious to see what's going to happen to the various black > box appliances out there that currently run on CentOS, like Aruba > Clearpass, Aruba wireless controllers, and the Juniper QFX switches. I > doubt they'll want something stablish like CentOS Stream, so they most > likely have three basic choices. > > 1. Run on CentOS 7 for as long as they can get away with it, and hope > something better appears in the meantime > 2. Work out a licensing deal for RHEL, and pass along the costs to the > customers > 3. Switch to an alternate distro like Ubuntu LTS > > The next year is going to be interesting for more than a few vendors... > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 3:59 PM Chuck Anderson <cra(a)alum.wpi.edu> wrote: > > > This might not be as bad as it initially sounds. Centos Stream will > > consist of rolling updates that start from what will become each RHEL > > point release to what will become the the next RHEL point release, so > > for example from RHEL 8.1 to 8.2 to 8.3 etc. In fact, Centos 6, 7, > > and 8 already is a "forced" minor upgrade every quarter or so since > > they stop supporting x.y after RHEL x.y+1 comes out and your normal > > system yum updates just migrate you to the newer x.y+1 anyway. This > > is in contrast to how RHEL itself works, or how Scientific Linux used > > to work, where you actually have to take explicit action to upgrade to > > a new point release either using new install media or manual "yum" > > commands. See for example: > > > > https://scientificlinux.org/documentation/faq/faq-releases/ > > > > And here is what one of my Centos 7 systems looks like: > > > > >cat /etc/centos-release > > CentOS Linux release 7.9.2009 (Core) > > >rpm -qf /etc/centos-release > > centos-release-7-9.2009.1.el7.centos.x86_64 > > >rpm -qi centos-release > > Name : centos-release > > Version : 7 > > Release : 9.2009.1.el7.centos > > Architecture: x86_64 > > Install Date: Thu 03 Dec 2020 07:27:24 AM EST > > .. > > > > See how the Centos 7.9.2009 release package was installed this month? > > Previously, I had older versions of that package: > > > > >sudo grep centos-release /var/log/yum.log* > > /var/log/yum.log:Nov 13 08:46:49 Updated: centos-release.x86_64 > > 7-9.2009.0.el7.centos > > /var/log/yum.log:Dec 03 07:27:24 Updated: centos-release.x86_64 > > 7-9.2009.1.el7.centos > > /var/log/yum.log-20181204:Jul 30 14:47:20 Updated: > > centos-release-7-5.1804.el7.centos.2.x86_64 > > /var/log/yum.log-20181204:Aug 14 12:15:35 Updated: > > centos-release-7-5.1804.4.el7.centos.x86_64 > > /var/log/yum.log-20181204:Oct 10 05:45:04 Updated: centos-release.x86_64 > > 7-5.1804.5.el7.centos > > /var/log/yum.log-20181204:Dec 04 07:19:18 Updated: centos-release.x86_64 > > 7-6.1810.2.el7.centos > > /var/log/yum.log-20200428:Jan 08 09:08:24 Updated: > > centos-release-7-7.1908.0.el7.centos.x86_64 > > /var/log/yum.log-20200428:Apr 28 07:47:22 Updated: centos-release.x86_64 > > 7-8.2003.0.el7.centos > > > > So over the years, this server got upgraded automatically from Centos > > 7.5 to 7.6 to 7.7 to 7.9. I have nightly automatic "yum updates" > > turned on, so it just gets updates as they come out and I reboot the > > server once every so often so the updates get fully applied (new > > kernels, new shared libraries). > > > > The difference with Centos Stream is you'll get updates continually > > /before/ RHEL releases it eventually as a "snapshot in time" called > > RHEL x.y+1. Sure, they won't be as heavily tested as RHEL point > > releases, but if you really need/want that, then you can either buy > > RHEL or stage your Centos Stream updates from TEST-->STAGE-->PROD, > > and/or stagger them across your PROD systems to minimize impact. > > > > On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 02:59:30PM -0500, Tim Keller wrote: > > > I've got a fair amount of centos in production... this sucks... guess I'm > > > going to Debian now... > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 9:10 AM Frank Sweetser via WLUG < > > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > And for anyone looking to contribute to Greg's efforts: > > > > > > > > https://github.com/hpcng/rocky > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:23 PM Chuck Anderson via WLUG < > > > > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > > > > > > >> My favorite comment on that post: > > > >> > > > >> "Gregory Kurtzer says: > > > >> December 8, 2020 at 4:27 pm > > > >> > > > >> I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may even be able > > > >> to hire some people for this effort. If you are interested in helping, > > > >> please join the HPCng slack (link on the website hpcng.org) > > > >> > > > >> Greg > > > >> (original founder of CentOS)" > > > >> > > > >> On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 10:35:24PM -0500, Frank Sweetser via WLUG > > wrote: > > > >> > Well, there's plenty talk about for CentOS users, like what you're > > > >> going to > > > >> > switch to now that CentOS is becoming something completely > > different: > > > >> > > > > >> > https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/

Dec. 9, 2020

Re: Wlug meeting on Thurs. Dec 10th 2020 @7pm.

by Frank Sweetser

It depends on the use case. If all you want is a free, reasonably stable version of RHEL, Centos stream might just be good enough. If your goal is to support software that wants RHEL, this could be hit or miss, as you'll always be running on an approximation of RHEL. You could say you should always have been just buying RHEL if it's that critical, but it's now that much less optional. I'm also really curious to see what's going to happen to the various black box appliances out there that currently run on CentOS, like Aruba Clearpass, Aruba wireless controllers, and the Juniper QFX switches. I doubt they'll want something stablish like CentOS Stream, so they most likely have three basic choices. 1. Run on CentOS 7 for as long as they can get away with it, and hope something better appears in the meantime 2. Work out a licensing deal for RHEL, and pass along the costs to the customers 3. Switch to an alternate distro like Ubuntu LTS The next year is going to be interesting for more than a few vendors... On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 3:59 PM Chuck Anderson <cra(a)alum.wpi.edu> wrote: > This might not be as bad as it initially sounds. Centos Stream will > consist of rolling updates that start from what will become each RHEL > point release to what will become the the next RHEL point release, so > for example from RHEL 8.1 to 8.2 to 8.3 etc. In fact, Centos 6, 7, > and 8 already is a "forced" minor upgrade every quarter or so since > they stop supporting x.y after RHEL x.y+1 comes out and your normal > system yum updates just migrate you to the newer x.y+1 anyway. This > is in contrast to how RHEL itself works, or how Scientific Linux used > to work, where you actually have to take explicit action to upgrade to > a new point release either using new install media or manual "yum" > commands. See for example: > > https://scientificlinux.org/documentation/faq/faq-releases/ > > And here is what one of my Centos 7 systems looks like: > > >cat /etc/centos-release > CentOS Linux release 7.9.2009 (Core) > >rpm -qf /etc/centos-release > centos-release-7-9.2009.1.el7.centos.x86_64 > >rpm -qi centos-release > Name : centos-release > Version : 7 > Release : 9.2009.1.el7.centos > Architecture: x86_64 > Install Date: Thu 03 Dec 2020 07:27:24 AM EST > .. > > See how the Centos 7.9.2009 release package was installed this month? > Previously, I had older versions of that package: > > >sudo grep centos-release /var/log/yum.log* > /var/log/yum.log:Nov 13 08:46:49 Updated: centos-release.x86_64 > 7-9.2009.0.el7.centos > /var/log/yum.log:Dec 03 07:27:24 Updated: centos-release.x86_64 > 7-9.2009.1.el7.centos > /var/log/yum.log-20181204:Jul 30 14:47:20 Updated: > centos-release-7-5.1804.el7.centos.2.x86_64 > /var/log/yum.log-20181204:Aug 14 12:15:35 Updated: > centos-release-7-5.1804.4.el7.centos.x86_64 > /var/log/yum.log-20181204:Oct 10 05:45:04 Updated: centos-release.x86_64 > 7-5.1804.5.el7.centos > /var/log/yum.log-20181204:Dec 04 07:19:18 Updated: centos-release.x86_64 > 7-6.1810.2.el7.centos > /var/log/yum.log-20200428:Jan 08 09:08:24 Updated: > centos-release-7-7.1908.0.el7.centos.x86_64 > /var/log/yum.log-20200428:Apr 28 07:47:22 Updated: centos-release.x86_64 > 7-8.2003.0.el7.centos > > So over the years, this server got upgraded automatically from Centos > 7.5 to 7.6 to 7.7 to 7.9. I have nightly automatic "yum updates" > turned on, so it just gets updates as they come out and I reboot the > server once every so often so the updates get fully applied (new > kernels, new shared libraries). > > The difference with Centos Stream is you'll get updates continually > /before/ RHEL releases it eventually as a "snapshot in time" called > RHEL x.y+1. Sure, they won't be as heavily tested as RHEL point > releases, but if you really need/want that, then you can either buy > RHEL or stage your Centos Stream updates from TEST-->STAGE-->PROD, > and/or stagger them across your PROD systems to minimize impact. > > On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 02:59:30PM -0500, Tim Keller wrote: > > I've got a fair amount of centos in production... this sucks... guess I'm > > going to Debian now... > > > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 9:10 AM Frank Sweetser via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > > wrote: > > > > > And for anyone looking to contribute to Greg's efforts: > > > > > > https://github.com/hpcng/rocky > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:23 PM Chuck Anderson via WLUG < > > > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > > > > >> My favorite comment on that post: > > >> > > >> "Gregory Kurtzer says: > > >> December 8, 2020 at 4:27 pm > > >> > > >> I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may even be able > > >> to hire some people for this effort. If you are interested in helping, > > >> please join the HPCng slack (link on the website hpcng.org) > > >> > > >> Greg > > >> (original founder of CentOS)" > > >> > > >> On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 10:35:24PM -0500, Frank Sweetser via WLUG > wrote: > > >> > Well, there's plenty talk about for CentOS users, like what you're > > >> going to > > >> > switch to now that CentOS is becoming something completely > different: > > >> > > > >> > https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/ > -- - Frank

Dec. 9, 2020

Re: Wlug meeting on Thurs. Dec 10th 2020 @7pm.

by Chuck Anderson

This might not be as bad as it initially sounds. Centos Stream will consist of rolling updates that start from what will become each RHEL point release to what will become the the next RHEL point release, so for example from RHEL 8.1 to 8.2 to 8.3 etc. In fact, Centos 6, 7, and 8 already is a "forced" minor upgrade every quarter or so since they stop supporting x.y after RHEL x.y+1 comes out and your normal system yum updates just migrate you to the newer x.y+1 anyway. This is in contrast to how RHEL itself works, or how Scientific Linux used to work, where you actually have to take explicit action to upgrade to a new point release either using new install media or manual "yum" commands. See for example: https://scientificlinux.org/documentation/faq/faq-releases/ And here is what one of my Centos 7 systems looks like: >cat /etc/centos-release CentOS Linux release 7.9.2009 (Core) >rpm -qf /etc/centos-release centos-release-7-9.2009.1.el7.centos.x86_64 >rpm -qi centos-release Name : centos-release Version : 7 Release : 9.2009.1.el7.centos Architecture: x86_64 Install Date: Thu 03 Dec 2020 07:27:24 AM EST .. See how the Centos 7.9.2009 release package was installed this month? Previously, I had older versions of that package: >sudo grep centos-release /var/log/yum.log* /var/log/yum.log:Nov 13 08:46:49 Updated: centos-release.x86_64 7-9.2009.0.el7.centos /var/log/yum.log:Dec 03 07:27:24 Updated: centos-release.x86_64 7-9.2009.1.el7.centos /var/log/yum.log-20181204:Jul 30 14:47:20 Updated: centos-release-7-5.1804.el7.centos.2.x86_64 /var/log/yum.log-20181204:Aug 14 12:15:35 Updated: centos-release-7-5.1804.4.el7.centos.x86_64 /var/log/yum.log-20181204:Oct 10 05:45:04 Updated: centos-release.x86_64 7-5.1804.5.el7.centos /var/log/yum.log-20181204:Dec 04 07:19:18 Updated: centos-release.x86_64 7-6.1810.2.el7.centos /var/log/yum.log-20200428:Jan 08 09:08:24 Updated: centos-release-7-7.1908.0.el7.centos.x86_64 /var/log/yum.log-20200428:Apr 28 07:47:22 Updated: centos-release.x86_64 7-8.2003.0.el7.centos So over the years, this server got upgraded automatically from Centos 7.5 to 7.6 to 7.7 to 7.9. I have nightly automatic "yum updates" turned on, so it just gets updates as they come out and I reboot the server once every so often so the updates get fully applied (new kernels, new shared libraries). The difference with Centos Stream is you'll get updates continually /before/ RHEL releases it eventually as a "snapshot in time" called RHEL x.y+1. Sure, they won't be as heavily tested as RHEL point releases, but if you really need/want that, then you can either buy RHEL or stage your Centos Stream updates from TEST-->STAGE-->PROD, and/or stagger them across your PROD systems to minimize impact. On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 02:59:30PM -0500, Tim Keller wrote: > I've got a fair amount of centos in production... this sucks... guess I'm > going to Debian now... > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 9:10 AM Frank Sweetser via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > > > And for anyone looking to contribute to Greg's efforts: > > > > https://github.com/hpcng/rocky > > > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:23 PM Chuck Anderson via WLUG < > > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > > >> My favorite comment on that post: > >> > >> "Gregory Kurtzer says: > >> December 8, 2020 at 4:27 pm > >> > >> I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may even be able > >> to hire some people for this effort. If you are interested in helping, > >> please join the HPCng slack (link on the website hpcng.org) > >> > >> Greg > >> (original founder of CentOS)" > >> > >> On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 10:35:24PM -0500, Frank Sweetser via WLUG wrote: > >> > Well, there's plenty talk about for CentOS users, like what you're > >> going to > >> > switch to now that CentOS is becoming something completely different: > >> > > >> > https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/

Dec. 9, 2020

Re: Wlug meeting on Thurs. Dec 10th 2020 @7pm.

by Tim Keller

I've got a fair amount of centos in production... this sucks... guess I'm going to Debian now... On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 9:10 AM Frank Sweetser via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > And for anyone looking to contribute to Greg's efforts: > > https://github.com/hpcng/rocky > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:23 PM Chuck Anderson via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >> On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 10:35:24PM -0500, Frank Sweetser via WLUG wrote: >> > Well, there's plenty talk about for CentOS users, like what you're >> going to >> > switch to now that CentOS is becoming something completely different: >> > >> > https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/ >> >> My favorite comment on that post: >> >> "Gregory Kurtzer says: >> December 8, 2020 at 4:27 pm >> >> I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may even be able >> to hire some people for this effort. If you are interested in helping, >> please join the HPCng slack (link on the website hpcng.org) >> >> Greg >> (original founder of CentOS)" >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ON4X3… >> > > > -- > - Frank > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/PSPQY… > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Dec. 9, 2020

Re: Wlug meeting on Thurs. Dec 10th 2020 @7pm.

by Frank Sweetser

And for anyone looking to contribute to Greg's efforts: https://github.com/hpcng/rocky On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:23 PM Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 10:35:24PM -0500, Frank Sweetser via WLUG wrote: > > Well, there's plenty talk about for CentOS users, like what you're going > to > > switch to now that CentOS is becoming something completely different: > > > > https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/ > > My favorite comment on that post: > > "Gregory Kurtzer says: > December 8, 2020 at 4:27 pm > > I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may even be able > to hire some people for this effort. If you are interested in helping, > please join the HPCng slack (link on the website hpcng.org) > > Greg > (original founder of CentOS)" > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ON4X3… > -- - Frank

Dec. 9, 2020

Re: Wlug meeting on Thurs. Dec 10th 2020 @7pm.

by Frank Sweetser

From what I've read, the role of Fedora won't really change. Here's my understanding of what the plan is: - Fedora: unchanged. This is basically the playground for what RedHat will one day become. Every once in a while, they pick a Fedora release, and use it as the foundation for the next RHEL release. For example, RHEL 8 was based off of Fedora 28. - CentOS Stream: despite sharing the name, this is something completely new. It appears to basically be a pre-release of candidate updates that are slated for full release into the RHEL channels. Think of it as pre-release, but post-beta. - RHEL: unchanged. The commercial release we all know, and some of us love. - CentOS: gone. The old CentOS that was designed as a binary compatible, bug for bug match of RHEL, is no more. On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:01 PM Zori Babroudi via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Well that's a fun announcement. > What is going to be the role of Fedora then? > <Z> > > > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:36 PM Frank Sweetser via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >> Well, there's plenty talk about for CentOS users, like what you're going >> to switch to now that CentOS is becoming something completely different: >> >> https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/ >> >> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 10:33 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Well, we made it.. The last wlug meeting of 2020! >>> >>> I hope everybody has stayed healthy and safe. >>> >>> The meeting is going to be at our usual virtual hang out.. >>> https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA @7pm. >>> >>> I don't have a topic yet, I suspect something natural will emerge. >>> >>> Later, >>> Tim. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/MOVLG… >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/3HHVY… >> > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/2XSQD… > -- - Frank

Dec. 9, 2020

Re: Wlug meeting on Thurs. Dec 10th 2020 @7pm.

by Chuck Anderson

On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 10:35:24PM -0500, Frank Sweetser via WLUG wrote: > Well, there's plenty talk about for CentOS users, like what you're going to > switch to now that CentOS is becoming something completely different: > > https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/ My favorite comment on that post: "Gregory Kurtzer says: December 8, 2020 at 4:27 pm I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may even be able to hire some people for this effort. If you are interested in helping, please join the HPCng slack (link on the website hpcng.org) Greg (original founder of CentOS)"

Dec. 9, 2020

Re: Wlug meeting on Thurs. Dec 10th 2020 @7pm.

by Zori Babroudi

Well that's a fun announcement. What is going to be the role of Fedora then? <Z> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:36 PM Frank Sweetser via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Well, there's plenty talk about for CentOS users, like what you're going > to switch to now that CentOS is becoming something completely different: > > https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/ > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 10:33 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> Well, we made it.. The last wlug meeting of 2020! >> >> I hope everybody has stayed healthy and safe. >> >> The meeting is going to be at our usual virtual hang out.. >> https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA @7pm. >> >> I don't have a topic yet, I suspect something natural will emerge. >> >> Later, >> Tim. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/MOVLG… >> > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/3HHVY… >

Dec. 9, 2020

Re: Wlug meeting on Thurs. Dec 10th 2020 @7pm.

by Frank Sweetser

Well, there's plenty talk about for CentOS users, like what you're going to switch to now that CentOS is becoming something completely different: https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/ On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 10:33 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Well, we made it.. The last wlug meeting of 2020! > > I hope everybody has stayed healthy and safe. > > The meeting is going to be at our usual virtual hang out.. > https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA @7pm. > > I don't have a topic yet, I suspect something natural will emerge. > > Later, > Tim. > > > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/MOVLG… >

Dec. 9, 2020

Wlug meeting on Thurs. Dec 10th 2020 @7pm.

by Tim Keller

Well, we made it.. The last wlug meeting of 2020! I hope everybody has stayed healthy and safe. The meeting is going to be at our usual virtual hang out.. https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA @7pm. I don't have a topic yet, I suspect something natural will emerge. Later, Tim.

Dec. 9, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Charter internet - lots of drops for others?

by Brett Russ

I too had water-related signal integrity issues at the street that Spectrum techs resolved with a couple visits before Thanksgiving. The SI issues were causing sporadic ~10% packet loss and lots of correctable/uncorrectable errors as reported by my Arris modem status page (mine is at http://192.168.100.1/ by default), high ping times, and frequent drops. Besides the moisture, the tech also told me the tap needed an upgrade. Since then the issues have been resolved. -BR On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 12:34 PM Bacon, John via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hello, > > > > I have an issue a few years back that I would get pixelated video and my > internet would drop out. > > > > I have several Tech that did everything from replace my cable box all the > way to replace every connector an line. > > Still didn’t help. > > > > Fortunately I got one Tech that was from town and had a vested interest in > the system because he was a user and from town. > > > > So he started checking things from inside the house and checking the > signal levels and found a few issues. So he traced it up the line. Come to > find out it was a bad tap on the pole. This particular tap had been full of > water. At this point they were able to get it replaced. > > > > As another note if you get a modem from charter they no longer give you > access to the Modems dashboard. It is better to get your own modem and that > way they can’t take the dashboard away. > > > > On another side note if you have Charter Video services try channel 2199. > It’s a hidden diagnostic menu. > > > > John Bacon – K1JWB > > > WORCESTER POLYTECHNIC INSTITUTE > > Network Operations > > 100 Institute Road > > Worcester, MA | 01609-2280 > > 508-831-5000 > > > > > > > > *From:* Dan Kaiser via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 8, 2020 9:36 AM > *To:* Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > > > *Cc:* randyokc(a)gmail.com; Dan Kaiser <dank2878(a)gmail.com> > *Subject:* [EXT] [WLUG] Re: Charter internet - lots of drops for others? > > > > I have the same issues with Charter that John describes here in Dudley. > We'll go a while without issues, then it will be a problem again for a few > weeks. > > > > Just this past Saturday my wife had to cancel ESL classes she teaches from > home due to inconsistent coverage. > > > > When calling Charter they say there isn't an outage, but someone in the > local neighborhood group (two roads over from us) said a tech told him > there was some equipment they were working on recently. > > > > I'm positive it isn't the router. And I'm pointed to OpenDNS servers. > > > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 9:09 AM Randy Cole via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > > John, > When we had a customer-owned Motorola Sharkfin-style modem, which was > either Docsis 1.0 or pre-Docsis, Charter Communications dba Spectrum > started deliberately screwing with the connection; It would go down about > once a day, right around like 8PM or midnight, and you would have to > powercycle it and it would work. Finally called them, they wanted us to > upgrade to one of their cable modems, which they provide for "free". > Didn't send an email or a letter like a normal company would but forced you > to call them!! > > In our area they give you a www.hitrontech.com > <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hitron…> > Docsys 3.1 eMTA EN2251 PC15 modem with two telephone connectors and a > theoretical battery-backup connector (does anybody use the battery backup > or have their cablemodem on a UPS? Does it even work?) It's physically > way larger than it should be. All web pages, configuration, logs are > disabled so the customer cannot troubleshoot anything themselves. Can log > in to your MySpectrum app and "check the connection" which sometimes can > wake the thing up when it is disconnected. > > I've read on the internetzzz that you can have problems such as failing > analog amplifiers in their cable plant cause hard to diagnose intermittent > problems, and also that Docsis 3.1 is more sensitive to line quality than > Docsis 3.0. My biggest concerns include the rising price of their internet > service. > > --r > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/RBYX6… > <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/YXZI7… >

Dec. 8, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Charter internet - lots of drops for others?

by Bacon, John

Hello, I have an issue a few years back that I would get pixelated video and my internet would drop out. I have several Tech that did everything from replace my cable box all the way to replace every connector an line. Still didn’t help. Fortunately I got one Tech that was from town and had a vested interest in the system because he was a user and from town. So he started checking things from inside the house and checking the signal levels and found a few issues. So he traced it up the line. Come to find out it was a bad tap on the pole. This particular tap had been full of water. At this point they were able to get it replaced. As another note if you get a modem from charter they no longer give you access to the Modems dashboard. It is better to get your own modem and that way they can’t take the dashboard away. On another side note if you have Charter Video services try channel 2199. It’s a hidden diagnostic menu. John Bacon – K1JWB WORCESTER POLYTECHNIC INSTITUTE Network Operations 100 Institute Road Worcester, MA | 01609-2280 508-831-5000 From: Dan Kaiser via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2020 9:36 AM To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Cc: randyokc(a)gmail.com; Dan Kaiser <dank2878(a)gmail.com> Subject: [EXT] [WLUG] Re: Charter internet - lots of drops for others? I have the same issues with Charter that John describes here in Dudley. We'll go a while without issues, then it will be a problem again for a few weeks. Just this past Saturday my wife had to cancel ESL classes she teaches from home due to inconsistent coverage. When calling Charter they say there isn't an outage, but someone in the local neighborhood group (two roads over from us) said a tech told him there was some equipment they were working on recently. I'm positive it isn't the router. And I'm pointed to OpenDNS servers. On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 9:09 AM Randy Cole via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org<mailto:wlug@lists.wlug.org>> wrote: John, When we had a customer-owned Motorola Sharkfin-style modem, which was either Docsis 1.0 or pre-Docsis, Charter Communications dba Spectrum started deliberately screwing with the connection; It would go down about once a day, right around like 8PM or midnight, and you would have to powercycle it and it would work. Finally called them, they wanted us to upgrade to one of their cable modems, which they provide for "free". Didn't send an email or a letter like a normal company would but forced you to call them!! In our area they give you a www.hitrontech.com<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hitron…> Docsys 3.1 eMTA EN2251 PC15 modem with two telephone connectors and a theoretical battery-backup connector (does anybody use the battery backup or have their cablemodem on a UPS? Does it even work?) It's physically way larger than it should be. All web pages, configuration, logs are disabled so the customer cannot troubleshoot anything themselves. Can log in to your MySpectrum app and "check the connection" which sometimes can wake the thing up when it is disconnected. I've read on the internetzzz that you can have problems such as failing analog amplifiers in their cable plant cause hard to diagnose intermittent problems, and also that Docsis 3.1 is more sensitive to line quality than Docsis 3.0. My biggest concerns include the rising price of their internet service. --r _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org<mailto:wlug@lists.wlug.org> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org<mailto:wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/RBYX6…<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…>

Dec. 8, 2020

Re: Charter internet - lots of drops for others?

by Dan Kaiser

I have the same issues with Charter that John describes here in Dudley. We'll go a while without issues, then it will be a problem again for a few weeks. Just this past Saturday my wife had to cancel ESL classes she teaches from home due to inconsistent coverage. When calling Charter they say there isn't an outage, but someone in the local neighborhood group (two roads over from us) said a tech told him there was some equipment they were working on recently. I'm positive it isn't the router. And I'm pointed to OpenDNS servers. On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 9:09 AM Randy Cole via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > John, > When we had a customer-owned Motorola Sharkfin-style modem, which was > either Docsis 1.0 or pre-Docsis, Charter Communications dba Spectrum > started deliberately screwing with the connection; It would go down about > once a day, right around like 8PM or midnight, and you would have to > powercycle it and it would work. Finally called them, they wanted us to > upgrade to one of their cable modems, which they provide for "free". > Didn't send an email or a letter like a normal company would but forced you > to call them!! > > In our area they give you a www.hitrontech.com Docsys 3.1 eMTA EN2251 > PC15 modem with two telephone connectors and a theoretical battery-backup > connector (does anybody use the battery backup or have their cablemodem on > a UPS? Does it even work?) It's physically way larger than it should be. > All web pages, configuration, logs are disabled so the customer cannot > troubleshoot anything themselves. Can log in to your MySpectrum app and > "check the connection" which sometimes can wake the thing up when it is > disconnected. > > I've read on the internetzzz that you can have problems such as failing > analog amplifiers in their cable plant cause hard to diagnose intermittent > problems, and also that Docsis 3.1 is more sensitive to line quality than > Docsis 3.0. My biggest concerns include the rising price of their internet > service. > > --r > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/RBYX6… >

Dec. 8, 2020

Re: Charter internet - lots of drops for others?

by Michael Voorhis

I've had no problems with my Charter service. I run my own local DNS and all. I've got a DOCSIS3 cablemodem and an old Netgear router running OpenWRT. I've been pretty happy with the service, to be honest. --MCV. P.S. My ARRIS cablemodem doesn't respond at all on 192.168.100.1. The prior Surfboard unit did, though. I wondered what happened...

Dec. 7, 2020

Re: Charter internet - lots of drops for others?

by randyokc＠gmail.com

John, When we had a customer-owned Motorola Sharkfin-style modem, which was either Docsis 1.0 or pre-Docsis, Charter Communications dba Spectrum started deliberately screwing with the connection; It would go down about once a day, right around like 8PM or midnight, and you would have to powercycle it and it would work. Finally called them, they wanted us to upgrade to one of their cable modems, which they provide for "free". Didn't send an email or a letter like a normal company would but forced you to call them!! In our area they give you a www.hitrontech.com Docsys 3.1 eMTA EN2251 PC15 modem with two telephone connectors and a theoretical battery-backup connector (does anybody use the battery backup or have their cablemodem on a UPS? Does it even work?) It's physically way larger than it should be. All web pages, configuration, logs are disabled so the customer cannot troubleshoot anything themselves. Can log in to your MySpectrum app and "check the connection" which sometimes can wake the thing up when it is disconnected. I've read on the internetzzz that you can have problems such as failing analog amplifiers in their cable plant cause hard to diagnose intermittent problems, and also that Docsis 3.1 is more sensitive to line quality than Docsis 3.0. My biggest concerns include the rising price of their internet service. --r

Dec. 7, 2020

Re: [EXT] Charter internet - lots of drops for others?

by Chuck Anderson

Does your modem actually lose sync with the head end during a 3-5 minute outage? You would see the US/DS lights go out for example, then start blinking as the modem tries to acquire a signal. If you have an ARRIS cable modem, you might be able to connect to 192.168.100.1 and get a statistics page and/or event log. Note that you may have to bypass any external router and connect directly to the cable modem to be able to communicate with it. Does your Cable TV also go out at the same time? What about Charter Voice (if you have that)? On Mon, Dec 07, 2020 at 02:30:20PM -0500, E Johnson wrote: > I’ve had this in more than one location. Usually worst in winter. It sounds > like water/ice in the hole, failing weatherproofing where the line in the > street connects to the line going to the local node box. The best > explanation one of their senior line techs was, that rain water eventually > works into a connector somewhere, which then in freezing/thawing situations > causes little micro outage glitches. > > If it’s this, then in a spell of dry, fair weather you won’t have this. > Worst after rain which then freezes. > > That is, it sounds like a LINE issue rather than something a housecall tech > has to fix. > > Can you get into your modem to see its recent event log? > > Liz J > > On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 14:10 John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > > > > > That's exactly what I do, all my internal machines points to my > > internal DNS server. > > > > It's not DNS as the problem, it's literally that the connection drops, > > I can't ping anything in the internet, etc. This recovers after 3-5 > > minutes on it's own, so I *strongly* suspect it's a Charter problem > > here in town (Boylston). > > > > I've had charter for probably close to 20 years, and this is by *far* > > the worst I've ever seen it here. I guess I'll also ask around in my > > Town FB group to see is anyone else is seeing these problems. > > > > John > > > > > > Chuck> Or just run your own fully recursive (not forwarding) DNS resolver > > on your own router... > > > > >> We have had Charter | Spectrum Internet for around 12 years. > > >> > > >> One thing I've noticed is their Charter Owned DNS servers are down (or > > really slow) a lot. > > >> > > >> When mine was down I found I could ping by IP number, but not by name. > > Consider pointing both your DNS servers elsewhere. Easy enough to test for > > a week. > > >> > > >> It's makes my home WiFi users happier. > > >> > > >> Joel > > >> > > >> On December 7, 2020 1:31:41 PM John Eismeier via WLUG < > > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > >> > > >> > I have been using Charter/Spectrum all day without drops. I am > > working > > >> > in Worcster all day today. > > >> > > > >> > John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > >> > > > >> >> Hi all, > > >> >> > > >> >> Has anyone else with Charter/Spectrum noticed that they're seeing > > alot > > >> >> more short 2-5 minute outages with Spectrum? Basically it all drops, > > >> >> then a few minutes on my router (OPNsense 20.7.<latest> running on a > > >> >> PCengines.sh APU4d4) I get the exact same IP address renewed via > > >> >> DHCP. It's really really sucky and impacts the kids and myself > > >> >> working from home. > > >> >> > > >> >> Tried all kinds of things, but the damn thing keeps crapping out > > >> >> randomly. I need to get them to look at this, but even with their > > >> >> automated system, and hacving them reset the Cable Modem remotely, it > > >> >> still fails randomly. > > >> >> > > >> >> Cheers, > > >> >> John

Dec. 7, 2020

Re: [EXT] Charter internet - lots of drops for others?

by E Johnson

I’ve had this in more than one location. Usually worst in winter. It sounds like water/ice in the hole, failing weatherproofing where the line in the street connects to the line going to the local node box. The best explanation one of their senior line techs was, that rain water eventually works into a connector somewhere, which then in freezing/thawing situations causes little micro outage glitches. If it’s this, then in a spell of dry, fair weather you won’t have this. Worst after rain which then freezes. That is, it sounds like a LINE issue rather than something a housecall tech has to fix. Can you get into your modem to see its recent event log? Liz J On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 14:10 John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > That's exactly what I do, all my internal machines points to my > internal DNS server. > > It's not DNS as the problem, it's literally that the connection drops, > I can't ping anything in the internet, etc. This recovers after 3-5 > minutes on it's own, so I *strongly* suspect it's a Charter problem > here in town (Boylston). > > I've had charter for probably close to 20 years, and this is by *far* > the worst I've ever seen it here. I guess I'll also ask around in my > Town FB group to see is anyone else is seeing these problems. > > John > > > Chuck> Or just run your own fully recursive (not forwarding) DNS resolver > on your own router... > > >> We have had Charter | Spectrum Internet for around 12 years. > >> > >> One thing I've noticed is their Charter Owned DNS servers are down (or > really slow) a lot. > >> > >> When mine was down I found I could ping by IP number, but not by name. > Consider pointing both your DNS servers elsewhere. Easy enough to test for > a week. > >> > >> It's makes my home WiFi users happier. > >> > >> Joel > >> > >> On December 7, 2020 1:31:41 PM John Eismeier via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >> > >> > I have been using Charter/Spectrum all day without drops. I am > working > >> > in Worcster all day today. > >> > > >> > John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > >> > > >> >> Hi all, > >> >> > >> >> Has anyone else with Charter/Spectrum noticed that they're seeing > alot > >> >> more short 2-5 minute outages with Spectrum? Basically it all drops, > >> >> then a few minutes on my router (OPNsense 20.7.<latest> running on a > >> >> PCengines.sh APU4d4) I get the exact same IP address renewed via > >> >> DHCP. It's really really sucky and impacts the kids and myself > >> >> working from home. > >> >> > >> >> Tried all kinds of things, but the damn thing keeps crapping out > >> >> randomly. I need to get them to look at this, but even with their > >> >> automated system, and hacving them reset the Cable Modem remotely, it > >> >> still fails randomly. > >> >> > >> >> Cheers, > >> >> John > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/HUA43… >

Dec. 7, 2020

Re: [EXT] Charter internet - lots of drops for others?

by Steven Thibault

I had the exact problem when I moved to Spencer. After a month of frustration and debugging, I had a Spectrum tech come out, and after 30 seconds of describing the problem, he said, oh I’m almost certain that’s your modem and listed the model, make type, and off the top of his head. He replaced it and a few aging cable lines and I’ve been much better since. > On Dec 7, 2020, at 2:09 PM, John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > > That's exactly what I do, all my internal machines points to my > internal DNS server. > > It's not DNS as the problem, it's literally that the connection drops, > I can't ping anything in the internet, etc. This recovers after 3-5 > minutes on it's own, so I *strongly* suspect it's a Charter problem > here in town (Boylston). > > I've had charter for probably close to 20 years, and this is by *far* > the worst I've ever seen it here. I guess I'll also ask around in my > Town FB group to see is anyone else is seeing these problems. > > John > > > Chuck> Or just run your own fully recursive (not forwarding) DNS resolver on your own router... > >>> We have had Charter | Spectrum Internet for around 12 years. >>> >>> One thing I've noticed is their Charter Owned DNS servers are down (or really slow) a lot. >>> >>> When mine was down I found I could ping by IP number, but not by name. Consider pointing both your DNS servers elsewhere. Easy enough to test for a week. >>> >>> It's makes my home WiFi users happier. >>> >>> Joel >>> >>> On December 7, 2020 1:31:41 PM John Eismeier via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I have been using Charter/Spectrum all day without drops. I am working >>>> in Worcster all day today. >>>> >>>> John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> Has anyone else with Charter/Spectrum noticed that they're seeing alot >>>>> more short 2-5 minute outages with Spectrum? Basically it all drops, >>>>> then a few minutes on my router (OPNsense 20.7.<latest> running on a >>>>> PCengines.sh APU4d4) I get the exact same IP address renewed via >>>>> DHCP. It's really really sucky and impacts the kids and myself >>>>> working from home. >>>>> >>>>> Tried all kinds of things, but the damn thing keeps crapping out >>>>> randomly. I need to get them to look at this, but even with their >>>>> automated system, and hacving them reset the Cable Modem remotely, it >>>>> still fails randomly. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> John > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/HUA43…

Dec. 7, 2020

Re: [EXT] Charter internet - lots of drops for others?

by Steven Thibault

I’ve been using an OPNsenser firewall on Charter Spectrum since I moved, and it was my only choice. I set up Unbound DNS to point to cloud flare’s DNS as a backup and its worked really well. Extra bonus, it supports a number of DNS Blacklists as well as custom ones for blocking adds, tracking,…,etc. Its a very granular way to manage your external access, The only down side is its not purely based on Linux but Free BSD. On the flip side, its web interface is really good, and you rarely if ever have two drop to the terminal after install. > On Dec 7, 2020, at 2:03 PM, Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Or just run your own fully recursive (not forwarding) DNS resolver on your own router... > > On Mon, Dec 07, 2020 at 01:57:02PM -0500, Joel via WLUG wrote: >> We have had Charter | Spectrum Internet for around 12 years. >> >> One thing I've noticed is their Charter Owned DNS servers are down (or really slow) a lot. >> >> When mine was down I found I could ping by IP number, but not by name. Consider pointing both your DNS servers elsewhere. Easy enough to test for a week. >> >> It's makes my home WiFi users happier. >> >> Joel >> >> On December 7, 2020 1:31:41 PM John Eismeier via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >> >>> I have been using Charter/Spectrum all day without drops. I am working >>> in Worcster all day today. >>> >>> John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Has anyone else with Charter/Spectrum noticed that they're seeing alot >>>> more short 2-5 minute outages with Spectrum? Basically it all drops, >>>> then a few minutes on my router (OPNsense 20.7.<latest> running on a >>>> PCengines.sh APU4d4) I get the exact same IP address renewed via >>>> DHCP. It's really really sucky and impacts the kids and myself >>>> working from home. >>>> >>>> Tried all kinds of things, but the damn thing keeps crapping out >>>> randomly. I need to get them to look at this, but even with their >>>> automated system, and hacving them reset the Cable Modem remotely, it >>>> still fails randomly. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> John > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ <https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/> > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ <https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/> > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/PE7BM… <https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/PE7BM…>

Dec. 7, 2020

Re: [EXT] Charter internet - lots of drops for others?

by John Stoffel

That's exactly what I do, all my internal machines points to my internal DNS server. It's not DNS as the problem, it's literally that the connection drops, I can't ping anything in the internet, etc. This recovers after 3-5 minutes on it's own, so I *strongly* suspect it's a Charter problem here in town (Boylston). I've had charter for probably close to 20 years, and this is by *far* the worst I've ever seen it here. I guess I'll also ask around in my Town FB group to see is anyone else is seeing these problems. John Chuck> Or just run your own fully recursive (not forwarding) DNS resolver on your own router... >> We have had Charter | Spectrum Internet for around 12 years. >> >> One thing I've noticed is their Charter Owned DNS servers are down (or really slow) a lot. >> >> When mine was down I found I could ping by IP number, but not by name. Consider pointing both your DNS servers elsewhere. Easy enough to test for a week. >> >> It's makes my home WiFi users happier. >> >> Joel >> >> On December 7, 2020 1:31:41 PM John Eismeier via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >> >> > I have been using Charter/Spectrum all day without drops. I am working >> > in Worcster all day today. >> > >> > John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> > >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> Has anyone else with Charter/Spectrum noticed that they're seeing alot >> >> more short 2-5 minute outages with Spectrum? Basically it all drops, >> >> then a few minutes on my router (OPNsense 20.7.<latest> running on a >> >> PCengines.sh APU4d4) I get the exact same IP address renewed via >> >> DHCP. It's really really sucky and impacts the kids and myself >> >> working from home. >> >> >> >> Tried all kinds of things, but the damn thing keeps crapping out >> >> randomly. I need to get them to look at this, but even with their >> >> automated system, and hacving them reset the Cable Modem remotely, it >> >> still fails randomly. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> John

Dec. 7, 2020

Re: [EXT] Charter internet - lots of drops for others?

by Chuck Anderson

Or just run your own fully recursive (not forwarding) DNS resolver on your own router... On Mon, Dec 07, 2020 at 01:57:02PM -0500, Joel via WLUG wrote: > We have had Charter | Spectrum Internet for around 12 years. > > One thing I've noticed is their Charter Owned DNS servers are down (or really slow) a lot. > > When mine was down I found I could ping by IP number, but not by name. Consider pointing both your DNS servers elsewhere. Easy enough to test for a week. > > It's makes my home WiFi users happier. > > Joel > > On December 7, 2020 1:31:41 PM John Eismeier via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > > I have been using Charter/Spectrum all day without drops. I am working > > in Worcster all day today. > > > > John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > >> Hi all, > >> > >> Has anyone else with Charter/Spectrum noticed that they're seeing alot > >> more short 2-5 minute outages with Spectrum? Basically it all drops, > >> then a few minutes on my router (OPNsense 20.7.<latest> running on a > >> PCengines.sh APU4d4) I get the exact same IP address renewed via > >> DHCP. It's really really sucky and impacts the kids and myself > >> working from home. > >> > >> Tried all kinds of things, but the damn thing keeps crapping out > >> randomly. I need to get them to look at this, but even with their > >> automated system, and hacving them reset the Cable Modem remotely, it > >> still fails randomly. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> John

Dec. 7, 2020

Re: [EXT] Charter internet - lots of drops for others?

by Joel

We have had Charter | Spectrum Internet for around 12 years. One thing I've noticed is their Charter Owned DNS servers are down (or really slow) a lot. When mine was down I found I could ping by IP number, but not by name. Consider pointing both your DNS servers elsewhere. Easy enough to test for a week. It's makes my home WiFi users happier. Joel On December 7, 2020 1:31:41 PM John Eismeier via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I have been using Charter/Spectrum all day without drops. I am working > in Worcster all day today. > > John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > >> Hi all, >> >> Has anyone else with Charter/Spectrum noticed that they're seeing alot >> more short 2-5 minute outages with Spectrum? Basically it all drops, >> then a few minutes on my router (OPNsense 20.7.<latest> running on a >> PCengines.sh APU4d4) I get the exact same IP address renewed via >> DHCP. It's really really sucky and impacts the kids and myself >> working from home. >> >> Tried all kinds of things, but the damn thing keeps crapping out >> randomly. I need to get them to look at this, but even with their >> automated system, and hacving them reset the Cable Modem remotely, it >> still fails randomly. >> >> Cheers, >> John >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail… >> Change Settings: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail… >> Web Forum/Archive: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/X2QWO…

Dec. 7, 2020

Re: [EXT] Charter internet - lots of drops for others?

by John Eismeier

I have been using Charter/Spectrum all day without drops. I am working in Worcster all day today. John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Hi all, > > Has anyone else with Charter/Spectrum noticed that they're seeing alot > more short 2-5 minute outages with Spectrum? Basically it all drops, > then a few minutes on my router (OPNsense 20.7.<latest> running on a > PCengines.sh APU4d4) I get the exact same IP address renewed via > DHCP. It's really really sucky and impacts the kids and myself > working from home. > > Tried all kinds of things, but the damn thing keeps crapping out > randomly. I need to get them to look at this, but even with their > automated system, and hacving them reset the Cable Modem remotely, it > still fails randomly. > > Cheers, > John > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail… > Change Settings: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail… > Web Forum/Archive: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…

Dec. 7, 2020

Charter internet - lots of drops for others?

by John Stoffel

Hi all, Has anyone else with Charter/Spectrum noticed that they're seeing alot more short 2-5 minute outages with Spectrum? Basically it all drops, then a few minutes on my router (OPNsense 20.7.<latest> running on a PCengines.sh APU4d4) I get the exact same IP address renewed via DHCP. It's really really sucky and impacts the kids and myself working from home. Tried all kinds of things, but the damn thing keeps crapping out randomly. I need to get them to look at this, but even with their automated system, and hacving them reset the Cable Modem remotely, it still fails randomly. Cheers, John

Dec. 7, 2020

Re: WLUG meeting November 19th, 2020: Topic: Gamerzilla! Presenter: Dennis Payne

by John Stoffel

Dennis> Thanks for everyone listening to my talk. Been putting Dennis> together changes to make the presentation better. And a big thank you for putting up with my comments! I hope you took them in the spirit they were offered, and not me being a jerk. I'm not a programmer, but as a long time sysadmin who's worked on compiling various programs over the years and tweaking them to work, I think I have a decent idea of good APIs.... at least I like to think so! :-) Cheers, John

Nov. 22, 2020

Re: Sharing Screens and jitsi

by Dennis Payne

The organizers of MiniDebConf Online informed me of a feature of jitsi. When you share your screen, it stops your video. That's why I used guvcview to show my video during the presentation. Apparently if you just click the video button again, it starts showing you in the bottom right corner. The presenter can't see it unless they have two displays and jitsi showing on a non shared screen. -- Dennis Payne dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com https://social.freegamedev.net/channel/dulsi

Nov. 21, 2020

Re: WLUG meeting November 19th, 2020: Topic: Gamerzilla! Presenter: Dennis Payne

by Zori Babroudi

Thanks for presenting Dennis. It was really cool to hear about the work you've done with Gamerzilla :) Good luck on your next presentation! -- Respectfully, Zori Babroudi On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 1:25 PM Dennis Payne via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Thanks for everyone listening to my talk. Been putting together changes > to make the presentation better. > > > -- > Dennis Payne > dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com > https://social.freegamedev.net/channel/dulsi > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/Y6JXE… >

Nov. 20, 2020

Re: WLUG meeting November 19th, 2020: Topic: Gamerzilla! Presenter: Dennis Payne

by Dennis Payne

Thanks for everyone listening to my talk. Been putting together changes to make the presentation better. -- Dennis Payne dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com https://social.freegamedev.net/channel/dulsi

Nov. 20, 2020

Re: WLUG meeting November 19th, 2020: Topic: Gamerzilla! Presenter: Dennis Payne

by John Stoffel

Guys, I had a great time at the meeting last night, learned a ton of new stuff and I still can't believe that three hours went by so quickly. Fun! Have a safe holiday all, John

Nov. 20, 2020

WLUG meeting November 19th, 2020: Topic: Gamerzilla! Presenter: Dennis Payne

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody! We've got a virtual meeting tomorrow Thursday November 19th, 2020. Long time WLUG member Dennis Payne will be giving a presentation on Gamerzilla. http://identicalsoftware.com/gamerzilla/index.html Time: 7PM Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA As usual, expect the banter and usual delve into linux (or not!) related topics. I fully expect as usual it'll go late into the night. See ya there! Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Nov. 18, 2020

Re: Generic VGA Driver (or other VGA driver)

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "gmcaplan---" == gmcaplan--- via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: gmcaplan---> Below is a question that I posted on Ask Ubuntu 8 days ago. gmcaplan---> I have received no replies, so I am now asking whether any of you might gmcaplan---> be able to help. Can I tell you to just go and buy a cheap PCIe graphics card made in the last 10 years? *grin* gmcaplan---> BTW, in addition to the Diamond Stealth card, I also have a PCI Mach64 gmcaplan---> VGA card made by ATI and a PCI VGA card made by STB Systems. The STB one gmcaplan---> has a big chip made by S3 and a PROM (I think) labeled "NITRO 3D/GX EDO gmcaplan---> 1.0". Those have essentially the same problem. All those cards are really stupid old, and the support has probably been dropped. Have you done a 'lspci -v' and then a the output of 'dmesg' after a clean reboot? gmcaplan---> I have added to my system a very old Diamond Stealth PCI gmcaplan---> VGA video card. That card can talk to the BIOS and gmcaplan---> display correctly on a VGA monitor (provided that I tell gmcaplan---> the BIOS that my primary graphics card is PCI-E not PCI), gmcaplan---> but it does not work in Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. I think I need gmcaplan---> a generic VGA driver. Here is some info from lshw: gmcaplan---> *-display UNCLAIMED description: VGA compatible controller gmcaplan---> product: 2000PV [Stingray] gmcaplan---> vendor: ARK Logic Inc gmcaplan---> physical id: 5 gmcaplan---> bus info: pci@0000:03:05.0 gmcaplan---> version: 00 gmcaplan---> width: 32 bits gmcaplan---> clock: 33MHz gmcaplan---> capabilities: vga_controller gmcaplan---> configuration: latency=0 gmcaplan---> resources: memory:fdc00000-fdffffff memory:febf0000-febfffff gmcaplan---> Also, here is what happens when I try to install fglrx: gmcaplan---> sudo apt-get install fglrx gmcaplan---> Reading package lists... Done gmcaplan---> Building dependency tree gmcaplan---> Reading state information... Done gmcaplan---> E: Unable to locate package fglrx gmcaplan---> I'd appreciate any help or suggestions. For fglrx, you might need to enable more repositories, especially for old hardware like this. Can you please post the 'lspci' output, and your dmesg output as well. gmcaplan---> (P.S. I think I have to set the BIOS to PCI-E because when I sent it to gmcaplan---> PCI it finds the built-in video port on my AMD CPU.) The next thing I would do is try to boot from an older liveCD and see if it can work with that display as well. But honestly, just get a new(er) card that is made in the past 10 years. :-) John

Nov. 16, 2020

Generic VGA Driver (or other VGA driver)

by gmcaplan＠gmcaplan.org

Dear WLUG Members, Below is a question that I posted on Ask Ubuntu 8 days ago. I have received no replies, so I am now asking whether any of you might be able to help. BTW, in addition to the Diamond Stealth card, I also have a PCI Mach64 VGA card made by ATI and a PCI VGA card made by STB Systems. The STB one has a big chip made by S3 and a PROM (I think) labeled "NITRO 3D/GX EDO 1.0". Those have essentially the same problem. ************** I have added to my system a very old Diamond Stealth PCI VGA video card. That card can talk to the BIOS and display correctly on a VGA monitor (provided that I tell the BIOS that my primary graphics card is PCI-E not PCI), but it does not work in Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. I think I need a generic VGA driver. Here is some info from lshw: *-display UNCLAIMED description: VGA compatible controller product: 2000PV [Stingray] vendor: ARK Logic Inc physical id: 5 bus info: pci@0000:03:05.0 version: 00 width: 32 bits clock: 33MHz capabilities: vga_controller configuration: latency=0 resources: memory:fdc00000-fdffffff memory:febf0000-febfffff Also, here is what happens when I try to install fglrx: sudo apt-get install fglrx Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done E: Unable to locate package fglrx I'd appreciate any help or suggestions. Thanks. (P.S. I think I have to set the BIOS to PCI-E because when I sent it to PCI it finds the built-in video port on my AMD CPU.)

Nov. 16, 2020

Re: CMYK jpeg

by Dennis Payne

Printing services generally want CMYK. Nothing I can do about that. I'm looking at using drivethrucards.com to print some cards. They have a beta service which takes CMYK jpeg that I thought I would use. If that doesn't work I could use Scribus. I loaded it but I decided not to try when it loaded a dialog at an insane size for some reason. (It had to be at least 4 times the width of my screen.) I'll give the imagemagik suggestion a try when I get a chance. If anyone wants to see a prototype card: https://social.freegamedev.net/photos/dulsi/image/6b4a87c2-eb26-4e0a-af26-e… The text has been slightly altered since then and the pentagon around the 12 was cleaned up. On Mon, 2020-11-16 at 01:33 +0000, Logan Brown wrote: > CMYK encoded jpegs are technically within spec ( > https://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-T.872-201206-I/en) but are exceedingly > uncommon and support is pretty sporatic. Typically a JPEG contains > RGB data encoded as YCbCr. If your application strictly requires CMYK > data, you probably want to consider another file format. > > Logan > From: Dennis Payne via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 8:22:01 PM > To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion > <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > Cc: Dennis Payne <dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com> > Subject: [WLUG] CMYK jpeg > Anybody know of an easy tool to convert an image into a CMYK color > space jpeg? I found an online site that works but would like to do it > on my machine. Searching has only found how to do it for tiff files. >

Nov. 16, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: [EXT] CMYK jpeg

by Killea, Ryan B.

I can confirm that imagemagick will do the trick. If you’re using python, and want to do it within your program I’d recommend using PIL. from PIL import Image # image.mode is where the color space currently in use is stored X = Image.open(path) X.convert(‘cmyk’) From: "Krichevsky, Nicholas J. via WLUG" <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Reply-To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Date: Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 5:57 PM To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Cc: Dennis Payne <dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com>, "Krichevsky, Nicholas J." <njkrichevsky(a)wpi.edu> Subject: [EXT] [WLUG] Re: [EXT] CMYK jpeg Looks like you can do this with imagemagick http://www.imagemagick.org/discourse-server/viewtopic.php?t=13359<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imagem…> converting RGB JPEGS to CMYK - ImageMagick<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imagem…> I need to convert a large number of images for my sister's ecommerce shop. Her website automatically handles images provided they are in the CMYK version of JPEG, but not the RGB version, and provided the starting file size is less than 1MB. www.imagemagick.org ________________________________ From: Dennis Payne via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 8:22 PM To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Cc: Dennis Payne <dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com> Subject: [EXT] [WLUG] CMYK jpeg Anybody know of an easy tool to convert an image into a CMYK color space jpeg? I found an online site that works but would like to do it on my machine. Searching has only found how to do it for tiff files. -- Dennis Payne dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsocial.fr…<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsocial.fr…> _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> Change Settings: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> Web Forum/Archive: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…>

Nov. 16, 2020

Re: [EXT] CMYK jpeg

by Krichevsky, Nicholas J.

Looks like you can do this with imagemagick http://www.imagemagick.org/discourse-server/viewtopic.php?t=13359 converting RGB JPEGS to CMYK - ImageMagick<http://www.imagemagick.org/discourse-server/viewtopic.php?t=13359> I need to convert a large number of images for my sister's ecommerce shop. Her website automatically handles images provided they are in the CMYK version of JPEG, but not the RGB version, and provided the starting file size is less than 1MB. www.imagemagick.org ________________________________ From: Dennis Payne via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 8:22 PM To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Cc: Dennis Payne <dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com> Subject: [EXT] [WLUG] CMYK jpeg Anybody know of an easy tool to convert an image into a CMYK color space jpeg? I found an online site that works but would like to do it on my machine. Searching has only found how to do it for tiff files. -- Dennis Payne dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsocial.fr… _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail… Change Settings: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail… Web Forum/Archive: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…

Nov. 16, 2020

Re: CMYK jpeg

by Logan Brown

CMYK encoded jpegs are technically within spec ( https://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-T.872-201206-I/en) but are exceedingly uncommon and support is pretty sporatic. Typically a JPEG contains RGB data encoded as YCbCr. If your application strictly requires CMYK data, you probably want to consider another file format. Logan ________________________________ From: Dennis Payne via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 8:22:01 PM To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Cc: Dennis Payne <dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com> Subject: [WLUG] CMYK jpeg Anybody know of an easy tool to convert an image into a CMYK color space jpeg? I found an online site that works but would like to do it on my machine. Searching has only found how to do it for tiff files. -- Dennis Payne dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com https://social.freegamedev.net/channel/dulsi _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/JH76O…

Nov. 16, 2020

CMYK jpeg

by Dennis Payne

Anybody know of an easy tool to convert an image into a CMYK color space jpeg? I found an online site that works but would like to do it on my machine. Searching has only found how to do it for tiff files. -- Dennis Payne dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com https://social.freegamedev.net/channel/dulsi

Nov. 16, 2020

Re: vagrant on debian 10 (buster) server

by John Stoffel

John> Has anyone played with vagrant on Debian Buster using libvirt as John> the provider? I can do a 'vagrant up' of a CentOS8 box, but it John> never finishes since it says it's just waiting for a network. Ok, just to give some more details, I've got vagrant working now on my main desktop box, and I think the problem is that I already have a libvirt install on my server, with a Bridged Network setup. So having a bridge setup confuses Vagrant and how it needs to be setup. Haven't gotten it working yet, but I have a better idea of where to look. John

Nov. 16, 2020

Re: Hey Everybody! NO MEETING TOMORROW! Meeting next Thursday (11/19/2020)

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: Tim> Definitely! We always use https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA You can go Tim> there and see that your camera works and if it thinks your mic Tim> works. Thanks, I tested it out and I think it will work.

Nov. 12, 2020

Re: Hey Everybody! NO MEETING TOMORROW! Meeting next Thursday (11/19/2020)

by Tim Keller

John, Definitely! We always use https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA You can go there and see that your camera works and if it thinks your mic works. Thanks, Tim. On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 5:58 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: > > If we're still using Jitsi, is there a good place to test it out ahead > of time? > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Nov. 11, 2020

Re: Hey Everybody! NO MEETING TOMORROW! Meeting next Thursday (11/19/2020)

by John Stoffel

If we're still using Jitsi, is there a good place to test it out ahead of time?

Nov. 11, 2020

Hey Everybody! NO MEETING TOMORROW! Meeting next Thursday (11/19/2020)

by Tim Keller

Our next WLUG meeting is Nov 19th, 2020. I've pushed the meeting out a week because I have a prior engagement and frankly this second Thursday snuck up on me. As an aside, are people happy with the Thursday meeting or would a different day in the week work better for people? I'll let you know more details when I get them. Thanks, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Nov. 11, 2020

Upcoming Online Conferences

by Dennis Payne

Linux App Summit is this week. I will be giving a lightning talk on Gamerzilla. https://linuxappsummit.org/ This is followed next week by the MiniDebConf. I will be giving another talk on Gamerzilla at that event. https://mdco2.mini.debconf.org/ -- Dennis Payne dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com https://social.freegamedev.net/channel/dulsi

Nov. 10, 2020

vagrant on debian 10 (buster) server

by John Stoffel

Guys, Has anyone played with vagrant on Debian Buster using libvirt as the provider? I can do a 'vagrant up' of a CentOS8 box, but it never finishes since it says it's just waiting for a network. But I have a virbr1 running with 192.168.121.0/24 subnet, and I can ping the new vagrant box at 192.168.121.18 without a problem. I can even fire up a VNC viewer and connect to the console and see that it's up and it's gotten an IP address. All I'm doing is: mkdir /scatch/vagrant vagrant box add centos/7 --provider=libvirt vagrant box add centos/8 --provider=libvirt cd /scratch/vagrant mkdir centos8 cd centos8 vagrant init centos/8 vagrant up I've got dnsmasq running on my server, and it looks to be giving out IPs on that subnet properly. Stupid VM just sits at: root@quad:/scratch/vagrant/centos8# vagrant reload ==> default: Halting domain... ==> default: Starting domain. ==> default: Waiting for domain to get an IP address... And then nothing. The console is fine, I can VNC into it and login as the root user with the password of 'vagrant' and see that the network is up, etc. Going nuts trying to make this work. John

Nov. 9, 2020

Re: Reminder: Virtual meeting, October 15th, 2020!

by Keith Wright

> On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 04:57:30PM -0400, Keith Wright wrote: >> As I said, I have never (knowingly) used the camera or microphone >> on this computer, nor even the speaker/headphones. I been messing with it a bit. When trying to listen to WBUR, it seems random, sometimes works, usually not. Websites that tell you how to pronounce words, I can hear them. Program vlc with a *.mp4, I can hear. I don't know how to test the microphone. >> (1) Did you guys see me? Chuck Anderson <cra(a)alum.wpi.edu> writes: > Yes we saw you. We also saw and replied to your text chat messages. Sorry, I stumbled into the text chat, but did not see the reply, probably not because anything was wrong, but because I was busy trying to get the sound working and logged in and out repeatedly without looking for text. >> (2) Is the URL https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA still active? Does >> it work with Microsoft Windows? > I don't know. The URL is still sitting there. Diane logged in with a MS computer and I with my Linux. We could see each other, mostly, but no sound. >> (3) Does HTML5 require DHCP to redirect or forward the data stream? > No. Your stream worked fine. I'm not so sure. I'm starting to suspect the firewall. I have a lot of blocked IP addresses that have accumulated over the years. I don't know what they are nor recall what they did to offend me years ago. On the other hand, when I start jit.si it has a button that says "Join Meeting", when I click it, it pops up another button that says "Join without sound", no other choice, so I choose that. Maybe it can't find the microphone, so it turns off the loudspeaker? But when it starts up it has a message at the bottom that says: "It sounds like your microphone is working". The Multimedia==> Pulseaudio==>Input device has a jumping blue line that reacts to sounds I make, so I know there is a microphone in there somewhere. > What Debian version are you running? What web browser and version? kwright@fcs22:~$ uname -a Linux fcs22 4.9.0-12-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 4.9.210-1 (2020-01-20) i686 GNU/Linux Help==>About==> Mozilla Firefox Quantum 68.7.0esr (32-bit) Maybe I'll see you next time, but busy websites and video seem to make it overheat even when they sort-of work. I'm a black-and-white Greek subscript kind of guy. If it weren't for the virus I would be happy with TeX, Scheme, and email; I wouldn't be trying to turn my good computer into a bad television. -- Keith

Oct. 21, 2020

Re: Reminder: Virtual meeting, October 15th, 2020!

by Chuck Anderson

On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 04:57:30PM -0400, Keith Wright wrote: > Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > "HTML5" and "WebRTC". > As I said, I have never (knowingly) used the camera or microphone > on this computer, nor even the speaker/headphones. But I have > a few questions: > > (1) Did you guys see me? I tried to join WLUG meeting last Thu. > I never got sound, but I saw some people I recognized, and > a picture of myself. I was the guy with the big head. It actually > looked bigger than it is, partly because of the firmware in the > standard laptop camera which uses AI to zoom in and magnify > any slight hint of receding hair, and partly because I was leaning > back in a comfy chair with the "Lap"top on my chest. Yes we saw you. We also saw and replied to your text chat messages. > (2) Is the URL https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA still active? Does > it work with Microsoft Windows? I am thinking that I could test > it out by connecting to WlugMA with my Linux computer while Diane > connects with her MS computer. Then we could debug by shouting across > the living room. I don't know. You could always try creating your own meeting URL. It is free to use. > (3) Does HTML5 require DHCP to redirect or forward the data stream? No. Your stream worked fine. > (4) Is there a standard codec or is that something that must be > installed to match the whim of the website? You said you saw us but didn't hear us. We saw you but didn't hear you. Then after the meeting you found the volume control and turned it up which allowed other audio applications to be heard. I'm guessing you have all the codecs you need already, and you just needed to have raised the volume. The same Pulseaudio control panel should also have a Microphone volume slider and/or mute button that you may need to turn up or unmute. What Debian version are you running? What web browser and version?

Oct. 20, 2020

Re: Simple Disc Room

by Doug Mildram

doug> fun, reminding me of a MontyPython sketch (even has its own wikipedia page) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architects_Sketch ===========================(my shorter copy/text from above:) snip ON ...first seen in Episode 17 of *Monty Python's Flying Circus <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python%27s_Flying_Circus>*, 'The Buzz Aldrin Show <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Monty_Python%27s_Flying_Circus_episod…>'. The episode was recorded on 18 September 1970 The sketch proper begins (on videotape) with Tid in an office with two City gents (Michael Palin <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Palin> and Terry Jones <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Jones>). On a table near the window stand two architectural models <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architectural_model> of tower blocks <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_block>. Mr. Tid informs the City gents that he has invited the architects responsible to explain the advantages of their respective designs.[2] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architects_Sketch#cite_note-AllTheWords-p220-2> First to arrive is Mr. Wiggin (John Cleese <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cleese>), who describes his architectural design and modern construction, and then explains his killing technique starting with a conveyor belt <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conveyor_belt> and 'rotating knives'. It turns out that Mr. Wiggin mainly designs slaughterhouses <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaughterhouse> and has misunderstood the owners' attitude to their tenants. doug> snip OFF. Thanks for holding it in, and dodging. BTW, Dennis, THANKS, yep that does describe me(all?) at(most?) times.. On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 9:35 AM Dennis Payne via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Bored? Feel the need to go to a room and dodge spinning blades? I have the > solution: > > http://identicalsoftware.com/simplediscroom/SimpleDiscRoom.html > > Arrow keys move. Don't touch the blades. > > What is this you ask? Disc Room is a new game coming out (closed source). > I stumbled on the Disc Room Game Jam to promote the game. > > A game jam is sort of a contest. You have a short period of time 24 hour > up to generally a month to develop a game. They generally have a theme you > need to incorporate and possibly other restrictions. They may or may not > have a prize or even judging. > > Disc Room Game Jam wants people to develop disc room like in their game. > They released a simple disc room written in Game Maker, a closed source > game development program. I decided to use the time to learn Godot, an open > source game development program. I recreated their sample with only slight > changes. The version on my web site doesn't have the update with sounds at > the moment. > > If you want to edit it: > > https://github.com/dulsi/SimpleDiscRoom > > You will need Godot 3.2. (Which is not in Fedora 32 so I've been using a > beta of Fedora 33 in a virtual machine.) Would people be interested in a > presentation on Godot? > > -- > > Dennis Payne > dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com > https://social.freegamedev.net/channel/dulsi > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/PIOWZ… >

Oct. 19, 2020

Simple Disc Room

by Dennis Payne

Bored? Feel the need to go to a room and dodge spinning blades? I have the solution: http://identicalsoftware.com/simplediscroom/SimpleDiscRoom.html Arrow keys move. Don't touch the blades. What is this you ask? Disc Room is a new game coming out (closed source). I stumbled on the Disc Room Game Jam to promote the game. A game jam is sort of a contest. You have a short period of time 24 hour up to generally a month to develop a game. They generally have a theme you need to incorporate and possibly other restrictions. They may or may not have a prize or even judging. Disc Room Game Jam wants people to develop disc room like in their game. They released a simple disc room written in Game Maker, a closed source game development program. I decided to use the time to learn Godot, an open source game development program. I recreated their sample with only slight changes. The version on my web site doesn't have the update with sounds at the moment. If you want to edit it: https://github.com/dulsi/SimpleDiscRoom You will need Godot 3.2. (Which is not in Fedora 32 so I've been using a beta of Fedora 33 in a virtual machine.) Would people be interested in a presentation on Godot? -- Dennis Payne dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com https://social.freegamedev.net/channel/dulsi

Oct. 19, 2020

Re: Reminder: Virtual meeting, October 15th, 2020!

by Keith Wright

Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 05:59:12PM -0400, Keith Wright via WLUG wrote: >> so I plan to try it tonight. I'll report back to this list. >> >> I have never used the camara or microphone on this laptop, >> I don't know if I have used sound output, it was long >> ago and might have been a different machine, >> >> Is video chat built into the browser now? > > Yes, video chat is built into all modern browsers. They call it > "HTML5" and "WebRTC". Thank you. HTML5 is a good search key. I have a lot of reading to do, but already I learned from wikipedia that >> In early November 2011, Adobe announced that it would discontinue >> development of Flash >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5#%22Thoughts_on_Flash%22 I noticed that it seemed to be going away, but thought it was just web site developers getting smarter: "Hey Joe, Why do we make the customers download flash before we tell them about our product?" It's more official than that. >> What exactly does Zoom or jit.si do then? > > It starts up a WebRTC session over HTTPS to the jit.si server using > your microphone and camera to send your video/audio, As I said, I have never (knowingly) used the camera or microphone on this computer, nor even the speaker/headphones. But I have a few questions: (1) Did you guys see me? I tried to join WLUG meeting last Thu. I never got sound, but I saw some people I recognized, and a picture of myself. I was the guy with the big head. It actually looked bigger than it is, partly because of the firmware in the standard laptop camera which uses AI to zoom in and magnify any slight hint of receding hair, and partly because I was leaning back in a comfy chair with the "Lap"top on my chest. (2) Is the URL https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA still active? Does it work with Microsoft Windows? I am thinking that I could test it out by connecting to WlugMA with my Linux computer while Diane connects with her MS computer. Then we could debug by shouting across the living room. After I quit the WLUG meeting, a poked some menu buttons I had not before and discovered Multimedia ==> PulseAudio Volume Control. By turning that up, I can reliably get sound while playing a *.mp4 with vlc. I tried listening to radio stations (wicn, wbur, wgbh) and it mostly didn't work, but once or twice it did work. I really have no idea why it is sometime but not always. I did notice that when I click (what I take to be) the button to listen to streaming radio over internet it starts looking up all kinds of things I did not ask for (facebook, twitter, chartbeat). I'm wondering if I might have a DNS (named) problem. I have never set up DHCP here, I just assign a static IP address each time I get a new computer. That does not happen often enough to be worth automation. (3) Does HTML5 require DHCP to redirect or forward the data stream? (4) Is there a standard codec or is that something that must be installed to match the whim of the website? -- Keith (Wright) aka Egghead

Oct. 18, 2020

Re: SBC Options for Network Router

by John Stoffel

Oh yeah, the TP-Link EAP225s were recommended on arstechnica.com about four months or so ago. Ugh... it was back in February. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/02/the-ars-technica-semi-scientific-gu… I had thought of getting Ubiquiti WAPS, but the TP-Link EAP-225s were just $50/ea from Amazon, so I got one and then a second. Great buys. And Jim Salter reviews the Seeed Studio box you're thinking of using as well. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/08/review-odyssey-x86j4105-a-mini-pc-f… Here's an older article where they built a home router, and the MicroTik MIPS based router did really well. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/09/the-router-rumble-ars-diy-build-fac… So they're alot of options. But basically, keep the WAPs seperate from the router, and run cables to them if at all possible, and you'll have a really nice home network. John

Oct. 17, 2020

Re: SBC Options for Network Router

by John Stoffel

David> I would like to build my own network router/gateway and I would like David> some feedback regarding options. This is a good option. David> I would like to separate the WIFI from the router. I plan on David> buying multiple Wireless Access Points to handle WIFI within David> the house and WIFI in the back yard. The backyard WAP will be David> powered over Ethernet. I'm using the TPlink EAP225 at home and I've been pretty happy with them. I've got the Ormada Java controller software running as well. The only annoyance is that if they lose their minds, the default subnet is 192.168.0.x and it defaults to .1 or .10 as I recall. Otherwise they seem to be pretty solid. I recently upgraded from a pair of Netgear WNDR3700s that I was running OpenWRT on. David> Also I want a router distribution that give me lots of David> flexibility in what I can install and is kept up to date with David> regard to security. For my home router I'm using OPNsense running on a PCengines APU with three 1gig network ports. I purposely didn't get the Wifi versions. I've also got a 64gb SSD in there as my boot media, and I'm using very little of the SSD, so I expect it to last quite a while. Now if you add a bunch of modules, I suspect that you really want to get a higher performance system. David> It looks like my choices for distributions are dd-wrt, openwrt, David> and tomahto (tomato). Any thoughts? I've given up on dd-wrt for the APs. It's just too painful to try and figure out which version of the software to use, etc. Maybe openwrt would have been a better choice? But this hardware was getting old and long in the tooth. For years and years I used m0n0wall since it was simple, fast, lightweight and just did the job right. So right now I''ve been using OpnSense for the past three or four years and I'm ok with it for my router. David> So far the only hardware option that I have encountered is David> Seeed Studio's ODYSSEY – X86J4105. It comes with a case and a David> power supply. The project is described in David> https://www.seeedstudio.com/blog/2020/02/24/how-to-build-your-own-openwrt-r… Looks interesting. I'm using the apu2 from pcengines.ch and I like it because it's quiet and low power and handles my home network needs no problem. Probably the three interface version. I like them alot since they're solid state, no moving parts. If you have over 200gbit internet at home, then the APU2 might not meet your needs... but honestly, it's been working really well for me for years. I'm also running the latest 20.3 releasr of OpnSense and it's ... ok. Not wild about the GUI. And if you want to run traffic shaping, or anti-virus or squid proxy, then you will need a bigger box than the APU2 series. But at that point, you may as well find an old PC and use that. Good luck, John

Oct. 17, 2020

SBC Options for Network Router

by David Glaser

Hi Folks, I would like to build my own network router/gateway and I would like some feedback regarding options. I would like to separate the WIFI from the router. I plan on buying multiple Wireless Access Points to handle WIFI within the house and WIFI in the back yard. The backyard WAP will be powered over Ethernet. Also I want a router distribution that give me lots of flexibility in what I can install and is kept up to date with regard to security. It looks like my choices for distributions are dd-wrt, openwrt, and tomahto (tomato). Any thoughts? So far the only hardware option that I have encountered is Seeed Studio's ODYSSEY – X86J4105. It comes with a case and a power supply. The project is described in https://www.seeedstudio.com/blog/2020/02/24/how-to-build-your-own-openwrt-r… Again, any suggestions on which SBC would be a good candidate? -David -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Oct. 16, 2020

Re: Reminder: Virtual meeting, October 15th, 2020!

by Chuck Anderson

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 05:59:12PM -0400, Keith Wright via WLUG wrote: > I don't know what the package is for, but somebody on this list > said that it should work just to put the link into a browser, > so I plan to try it tonight. I'll reoort back to this list. > > I have never used the camara or microphone on this laptop, > I don't know if I have used used sound output, it was long > ago and might have been a different machine, > > Is video chat built into the browser now? Yes, video chat is built into all modern browsers. They call it "HTML5" and "WebRTC". > What exactly does Zoom or jit.si do then? It starts up a WebRTC session over HTTPS to the jit.si server using your microphone and camera to send your video/audio, while the web server jit.si sends the video/audio of all the other participants back to your browser. Each participant appears as a small video window in a "grid" on the web page. So the server acts as a "video router". > And what's in that Debian jit.si package? I haven't looked at the Debian package, but since the server side of jitsi is open source (the client side is open source if you use Firefox or Chromium or similar to access the server), I'd imagine that the Debian package contains the server code. jit.si the web site runs the open source code from jitsi.org. Anyone can run their own web server for people to connect to for creating their own video conference: https://jitsi.org/what-is-jitsi/

Oct. 15, 2020

Re: Reminder: Virtual meeting, October 15th, 2020!

by Keith Wright

Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Hey Everybody, > > We've got a virtual wlug meeting on Thursday October 15th, 2020! Hey, that's tonight. I almody forgot. > Time: 7pm > Date: Oct 15th, 2020 > Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > Topic: As usual TBD. I will show off my CNC machine and where I'm at with > it, but besides that, I expect the usual level of banter. The first time WLUG had a jitsi meeting, I searched for it and found a Debian package that I thought I had to install. I dinna wanna. I don't know what the package is for, but somebody on this list said that it should work just to put the link into a browser, so I plan to try it tonight. I'll reoort back to this list. I have never used the camara or microphone on this laptop, I don't know if I have used used sound output, it was long ago and might have been a different machine, Is video chat built into the browser now? What exactly does Zoom or jit.si do then? And what's in that Debian jit.si package? -- Keith

Oct. 15, 2020

Reminder: Virtual meeting, October 15th, 2020!

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody, We've got a virtual wlug meeting on Thursday October 15th, 2020! Time: 7pm Date: Oct 15th, 2020 Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Topic: As usual TBD. I will show off my CNC machine and where I'm at with it, but besides that, I expect the usual level of banter. Hope to see some familiar faces and new ones as well! Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Oct. 14, 2020

Re: Free Item: Elenco Kids 300 Project Electronics Kit

by John Stoffel

Joel> You are the first to show interest and #1 on the interested Joel> people list. Joel> If others are interested, will pick a person at random from Joel> those interested. I think I can add in more snap circuits to this giveaway too! No manuals, not sure how much I have left, but I'd be happy to have it find a good home since my kids aren't interested at all.

Oct. 11, 2020

Re: Free Item: Elenco Kids 300 Project Electronics Kit

by Aljerin Butler,Jr.

If you really want your kids to "geek out" try looking here, here and here. Al Butler On Monday, October 5, 2020, 1:06:32 PM EDT, Jim Dibb via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: Hi, Actually, I retract my interest. Went to look at what we do have and the kit you have would be redundant.Thanks for offering it. I'm sure it will find a good home.Regards,Jim On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 10:54 AM joel d via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: Hi WLUG, I have a free item someone's favorite electronics interested kid may love. Elenco Snap Circuits 300 in 1 Electronics Kit. Have the 300 projects kit plus an expansion kit for another 100+ projects. I believe all the parts and manuals are there, but no guarantees. As a ham radio geek, I will genuinely miss my son building a working AM radio receiver on his own on a random rainy Saturday. Think electronics building kit, with no wires to connect and with language-free Lego type instructions. My guess at age range is 6 years old (for simpler builds) to about 13 years old.Kids older than 13 may love it, but are more likely to live with a death-grip on their modern data phone device. If more than one person happens to be interested, I will do a random.org drawing to pick a winner later this week. Joel Here is what Amazon lists for a description of the 300 project kit:https://www.amazon.com/Snap-Circuits-SC-300-Electronics-Exploration/dp/… _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BVGIH… _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/UEHBT…

Oct. 8, 2020

Try #2! Next WLUG Meeting is Oct. 15th!!

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody, let's try this again! I have a conflict on the 8th and the second week of October snuck up on me. We will be having the meeting *October 15th, 2020!* Sorry for any confusion the last confusing email created! Thanks, TIm. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Oct. 6, 2020

Next WLUG Meeting! Oct 15th NOT the 8th.

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody, I've decided to push the meeting off to the 8th. This is mainly because the second week of October snuck up on me and because I have conflict that night. Hopefully by then I'll have a little project I've been working on ready to show off. Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Oct. 6, 2020

Re: Free Item: Elenco Kids 300 Project Electronics Kit

by Joel

Hi Andrew, You are the first to show interest and #1 on the interested people list. If others are interested, will pick a person at random from those interested. Thank you, Joel On October 5, 2020 12:09:52 PM Andrew Oprea via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Did no one bite? > The closest I've got to a sudtable kid is a soon-to-be 4 year old > niece. If no one else is interested, I'll be passing by Worcester next > weekend. > > - Drew > > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 12:03 PM Joel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >> >> Hi WLUG, >> >> I have a free item someone's favorite electronics interested kid may love. >> >> Elenco Snap Circuits 300 in 1 Electronics Kit. >> >> Have the 300 projects kit plus an expansion kit for another 100+ projects. >> >> I believe all the parts and manuals are there, but no guarantees. >> >> As a ham radio geek, I will genuinely miss my son building a working AM radio receiver on his own on a random rainy Saturday. >> >> Think electronics building kit, with no wires to connect and with language-free Lego type instructions. >> >> My guess at age range is 6 years old (for simpler builds) to about 13 years old. >> Kids older than 13 may love it, but are more likely to live with a death-grip on their modern data phone device. >> >> If more than one person happens to be interested, I will do a random.org drawing to pick a winner later this week. >> >> Joel >> >> Here is what Amazon lists for a description of the 300 project kit: >> https://www.amazon.com/Snap-Circuits-SC-300-Electronics-Exploration/dp/B000… >> >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/TD5GU… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/2W3F4…

Oct. 5, 2020

Re: Free Item: Elenco Kids 300 Project Electronics Kit

by Andrew Oprea

Did no one bite? The closest I've got to a sudtable kid is a soon-to-be 4 year old niece. If no one else is interested, I'll be passing by Worcester next weekend. - Drew On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 12:03 PM Joel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Hi WLUG, > > I have a free item someone's favorite electronics interested kid may love. > > Elenco Snap Circuits 300 in 1 Electronics Kit. > > Have the 300 projects kit plus an expansion kit for another 100+ projects. > > I believe all the parts and manuals are there, but no guarantees. > > As a ham radio geek, I will genuinely miss my son building a working AM radio receiver on his own on a random rainy Saturday. > > Think electronics building kit, with no wires to connect and with language-free Lego type instructions. > > My guess at age range is 6 years old (for simpler builds) to about 13 years old. > Kids older than 13 may love it, but are more likely to live with a death-grip on their modern data phone device. > > If more than one person happens to be interested, I will do a random.org drawing to pick a winner later this week. > > Joel > > Here is what Amazon lists for a description of the 300 project kit: > https://www.amazon.com/Snap-Circuits-SC-300-Electronics-Exploration/dp/B000… > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/TD5GU…

Oct. 5, 2020

Free Item: Elenco Kids 300 Project Electronics Kit

by Joel

Hi WLUG, I have a free item someone's favorite electronics interested kid may love. Elenco Snap Circuits 300 in 1 Electronics Kit. Have the 300 projects kit plus an expansion kit for another 100+ projects. I believe all the parts and manuals are there, but no guarantees. As a ham radio geek, I will genuinely miss my son building a working AM radio receiver on his own on a random rainy Saturday. Think electronics building kit, with no wires to connect and with language-free Lego type instructions. My guess at age range is 6 years old (for simpler builds) to about 13 years old. Kids older than 13 may love it, but are more likely to live with a death-grip on their modern data phone device. If more than one person happens to be interested, I will do a random.org drawing to pick a winner later this week. Joel Here is what Amazon lists for a description of the 300 project kit: https://www.amazon.com/Snap-Circuits-SC-300-Electronics-Exploration/dp/B000…

Oct. 5, 2020

Re: Free Item: Elenco Kids 300 Project Electronics Kit

by Jim Dibb

Hi, Actually, I retract my interest. Went to look at what we do have and the kit you have would be redundant. Thanks for offering it. I'm sure it will find a good home. Regards, Jim On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 10:54 AM joel d via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hi WLUG, > > I have a free item someone's favorite electronics interested kid may love. > > Elenco Snap Circuits 300 in 1 Electronics Kit. > > Have the 300 projects kit plus an expansion kit for another 100+ projects. > > I believe all the parts and manuals are there, but no guarantees. > > As a ham radio geek, I will genuinely miss my son building a working AM > radio receiver on his own on a random rainy Saturday. > > Think electronics building kit, with no wires to connect and with > language-free Lego type instructions. > > My guess at age range is 6 years old (for simpler builds) to about 13 > years old. > Kids older than 13 may love it, but are more likely to live with a > death-grip on their modern data phone device. > > If more than one person happens to be interested, I will do a random.org > drawing to pick a winner later this week. > > Joel > > Here is what Amazon lists for a description of the 300 project kit: > > https://www.amazon.com/Snap-Circuits-SC-300-Electronics-Exploration/dp/B000… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BVGIH… >

Oct. 5, 2020

Re: Free Item: Elenco Kids 300 Project Electronics Kit

by Jim Dibb

Hi, my daughter, now 15, has a few smaller snap circuits kits. She's a math fan and is learning python on her own from the python for kids book. She'd love it. Jim On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 10:54 AM joel d via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hi WLUG, > > I have a free item someone's favorite electronics interested kid may love. > > Elenco Snap Circuits 300 in 1 Electronics Kit. > > Have the 300 projects kit plus an expansion kit for another 100+ projects. > > I believe all the parts and manuals are there, but no guarantees. > > As a ham radio geek, I will genuinely miss my son building a working AM > radio receiver on his own on a random rainy Saturday. > > Think electronics building kit, with no wires to connect and with > language-free Lego type instructions. > > My guess at age range is 6 years old (for simpler builds) to about 13 > years old. > Kids older than 13 may love it, but are more likely to live with a > death-grip on their modern data phone device. > > If more than one person happens to be interested, I will do a random.org > drawing to pick a winner later this week. > > Joel > > Here is what Amazon lists for a description of the 300 project kit: > > https://www.amazon.com/Snap-Circuits-SC-300-Electronics-Exploration/dp/B000… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BVGIH… >

Oct. 5, 2020

Free Item: Elenco Kids 300 Project Electronics Kit

by joel d

Hi WLUG, I have a free item someone's favorite electronics interested kid may love. Elenco Snap Circuits 300 in 1 Electronics Kit. Have the 300 projects kit plus an expansion kit for another 100+ projects. I believe all the parts and manuals are there, but no guarantees. As a ham radio geek, I will genuinely miss my son building a working AM radio receiver on his own on a random rainy Saturday. Think electronics building kit, with no wires to connect and with language-free Lego type instructions. My guess at age range is 6 years old (for simpler builds) to about 13 years old. Kids older than 13 may love it, but are more likely to live with a death-grip on their modern data phone device. If more than one person happens to be interested, I will do a random.org drawing to pick a winner later this week. Joel Here is what Amazon lists for a description of the 300 project kit: https://www.amazon.com/Snap-Circuits-SC-300-Electronics-Exploration/dp/B000…

Oct. 5, 2020

Re: Ubuntu update question

by Tim Keller

Ron, I hear you on the quality aspect. When you get near the sub 1k desktops, they're really trying to hit a price point and they'll do that shaving off any corner they don't think you'll need. My wife's desktop is nearing the end of its life and while I haven't had any issues with her prefab desktop, it's basically not upgradeable except for ram. I'm glad to hear everything is going well with the desktop! Tim. On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 11:30 PM John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > THE> Thank again for all the recent advice. I have one question. I > THE> installed Ubuntu (from a 20.04 flash drive I did a while back) > THE> and checked the option to download additional software. It was > THE> then up and running. I then had updates available. They were > THE> installing, and then the computer said a restart was needed. I > THE> clicked restart and rather than restart as expected it went to > THE> what I think was a grub menu. Ubuntu was highlighted, I hit the > THE> enter key. It said "unpacking failed" (forget if before or > THE> after) and started up. Everything seems to be fine, but I am > THE> sending this email in case if anyone knows if I will have > THE> problems. > > Did you remember to remove the USB stick? Just making sure you > weren't booting off that. The next thing to check is to just reboot > and not touch anything. Does it boot on it's own? If it does, then > you're just seeing the message during the timeout phase it gives you > to select different boot options. > > If it does NOT boot properly, then we're going to need more details. > Basically, when you get to the grub menu and Ubuntu is highlighted, > just don't do anything and see if it boots on it's own. > > THE> I tried googling "Ubuntu unpacking failed" and se references to > THE> initramfs, but can't say if my message said this. It flashed > THE> quickly. I'm confused on what I read there anyway. > > THE> FYI on the bios to make things work I changed: > THE> PTT to off > THE> Secure Boot Enable to off > THE> Changed RAID to AHCHI > > What happens if you change these one by one? With 3 changes, you have > 8 different combinations. But the last one, RAID to AHCI, I agree > with. Not sure what the PTT means, I associate it with Push To Talk > myself. > > > THE> The machine seems blazing fast compared to the previous one. > THE> Materials much more cheaply made, though. Surprised me that > THE> there was no Windows CD or label with license number. > > Most systems these days just come with a Windows10 restore partition. > But you can also just install windows 10 from an image you download > from MS and it just works. For some value of works. :-) > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/MBHBW… > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Sept. 21, 2020

Re: Ubuntu update question

by John Stoffel

THE> Thank again for all the recent advice. I have one question. I THE> installed Ubuntu (from a 20.04 flash drive I did a while back) THE> and checked the option to download additional software. It was THE> then up and running. I then had updates available. They were THE> installing, and then the computer said a restart was needed. I THE> clicked restart and rather than restart as expected it went to THE> what I think was a grub menu. Ubuntu was highlighted, I hit the THE> enter key. It said "unpacking failed" (forget if before or THE> after) and started up. Everything seems to be fine, but I am THE> sending this email in case if anyone knows if I will have THE> problems. Did you remember to remove the USB stick? Just making sure you weren't booting off that. The next thing to check is to just reboot and not touch anything. Does it boot on it's own? If it does, then you're just seeing the message during the timeout phase it gives you to select different boot options. If it does NOT boot properly, then we're going to need more details. Basically, when you get to the grub menu and Ubuntu is highlighted, just don't do anything and see if it boots on it's own. THE> I tried googling "Ubuntu unpacking failed" and se references to THE> initramfs, but can't say if my message said this. It flashed THE> quickly. I'm confused on what I read there anyway. THE> FYI on the bios to make things work I changed: THE> PTT to off THE> Secure Boot Enable to off THE> Changed RAID to AHCHI What happens if you change these one by one? With 3 changes, you have 8 different combinations. But the last one, RAID to AHCI, I agree with. Not sure what the PTT means, I associate it with Push To Talk myself. THE> The machine seems blazing fast compared to the previous one. THE> Materials much more cheaply made, though. Surprised me that THE> there was no Windows CD or label with license number. Most systems these days just come with a Windows10 restore partition. But you can also just install windows 10 from an image you download from MS and it just works. For some value of works. :-)

Sept. 20, 2020

Re: Ubuntu update question

by joshua.gage.stone＠gmail.com

Ron, Is this the latest point release of 20.04 LTS? 20.04.1 LTS came out last month, which would probably have some bugfixes for this unexpected behavior. https://releases.ubuntu.com/20.04.1/ Alternatively, Fedora has frequent respins (for Workstation and other supported flavors) which package the latest stable kernel to ensure your hardware is supported OOTB and has bugfixes for broken updates. https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/live-respins/ I don't think disabling Secure Boot is necessary; it's generally going to work OOTB in a modern distro like Ubuntu if you don't need additional drivers, and provides some security since only trusted kernel modules can be loaded. You may have to defer additional updates when reinstalling (that is if you plan on upgrading the OS drive from HDD to SSD), as it's a bit concerning that there are boot errors are happening right from the start. You'll be able to more easily see log output when running `apt update && apt full-upgrade` in a terminal window too. Josh On Sat, 2020-09-19 at 14:05 +0000, THE HAMMER via WLUG wrote: > Hello everyone. > > > > > > > > Thank again for all the recent advice. I have one question. I > installed Ubuntu (from a 20.04 flash drive I did a while back) and > checked the option to download additional software. It was then up > and running. I then had updates available. They were installing, > and then the computer said a restart was needed. I clicked restart > and rather than restart as expected it went to what I think was a > grub menu. Ubuntu was highlighted, I hit the enter key. It said > "unpacking failed" (forget if before or after) and started > up. Everything seems to be fine, but I am sending this email in case > if anyone knows if I will have problems. > > > > > > > > I tried googling "Ubuntu unpacking failed" and se references to > initramfs, but can't say if my message said this. It flashed > quickly. I'm confused on what I read there anyway. > > > > > > > > > > FYI on the bios to make things work I changed: > > PTT to off > > Secure Boot Enable to off > > Changed RAID to AHCHI > > > > > > > > The machine seems blazing fast compared to the previous one. > > Materials much more cheaply made, though. > > Surprised me that there was no Windows CD or label with license > number. > > > > cheers > > > > > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________WLUG mailing list -- > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/NOGNS…

Sept. 19, 2020