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Reminder! Meeting tonight!! Topic: SilverBlue Atomic install

by Tim Keller

Time: 7PM Date: January 16th, 2025 Location: Technocopia, 44 Portland St. Floor 6 Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA I don't have an "official" topic at the moment, if there's an itch you want to scratch, by all means let me know! As for our topic about SilverBlue and atomic desktops, I'm more than willing to create a VM on the spot and we can play with it. Microsoft is abandoning lots of people because their systems won't run windows 10. Personally I've had a couple of people reach out to me asking about linux and I suspect that those of us who advocate for FOSS are going to get an influx of questions. What works, what doesn't, ehow do people play games, etc.. As usual, we'll head off for dinner afterwards and keep the conversation going! Thanks, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Jan. 16, 2025

Re: Next Meeting January 16th, 2025 Topic: SilverBlue Atomic / Win10 EOL and what that means for us.

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > On Thursday we'll have our first meeting of 2025! I think I'll be missing this meeting unfortunately. But I just got my JetKVM recently and I'll be bringing it to the February meeting to show it off. It's running embedded linux and does a pretty nice job! I'm happy with it so far. John > Time: 7PM > Date: January 16th, 2025 > Location: Technocopia, 44 Portland St. Floor 6 > Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > I don't have an "official" topic at the moment, if there's an itch you want to scratch, by all > means let me know! As for our topic about SilverBlue and atomic desktops, I'm more than willing to > create a VM on the spot and we can play with it. > Microsoft is abandoning lots of people because their systems won't run windows 10. Personally I've > had a couple of people reach out to me asking about linux and I suspect that those of us who > advocate for FOSS are going to get an influx of questions. What works, what doesn't, ehow do > people play games, etc.. > As usual, we'll head off for dinner afterwards and keep the conversation going! > Thanks, > Tim. > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/V43YG…

Jan. 15, 2025

Next Meeting January 16th, 2025 Topic: SilverBlue Atomic / Win10 EOL and what that means for us.

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody! On Thursday we'll have our first meeting of 2025! Time: 7PM Date: January 16th, 2025 Location: Technocopia, 44 Portland St. Floor 6 Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA I don't have an "official" topic at the moment, if there's an itch you want to scratch, by all means let me know! As for our topic about SilverBlue and atomic desktops, I'm more than willing to create a VM on the spot and we can play with it. Microsoft is abandoning lots of people because their systems won't run windows 10. Personally I've had a couple of people reach out to me asking about linux and I suspect that those of us who advocate for FOSS are going to get an influx of questions. What works, what doesn't, ehow do people play games, etc.. As usual, we'll head off for dinner afterwards and keep the conversation going! Thanks, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Jan. 14, 2025

Re: WLUG Meeting tonight?

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: This looks really interesting, and especially these days with lots of available disk space, having two boot partitions so you can update B while booted off A, and then try to boot from B, but failback if there's a problem. My only problem with Fedora is that I'm a debian packaging kinda guy.... LOL! > Yeah, it probably would have saved me. > On Thu, Jan 9, 2025 at 9:50 PM Joshua Stone via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I've found that moving my systems to Fedora Atomic has been great for avoiding situations like > this. The image-based OS update model of rpm-ostree ensures that an update doesn't leave the > OS in a broken state, even if the update gets interrupted. > https://coreos.github.io/rpm-ostree/ > https://fedoraproject.org/atomic-desktops/silverblue/ > The introduction of bootupd in Fedora 41 has also helped ensure that the bootloader gets > updated properly outside of rpm-ostree. > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/FedoraSilverblueBootupd > In essence, I get the leading-edge package updates of Fedora, with the rock-solid reliability > that LTS distros are typically associated with. > - Josh > On Thu, Jan 9, 2025 at 8:15 PM Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Fedora is always up-to-date with the newest kernels... > On Thu, Jan 09, 2025 at 08:09:16PM -0500, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: >> Chuck, >> >> That's awesome! I've seen there are apt repositories going as well! >> >> Since this week is a follies dejour for me.. You'll all laugh. >> >> Installing 6.12.8 I managed to mess up my order of operations and rebooted >> before fully updating the boot loader.. >> >> Don't install kernels when you're sleepy.. >> >> Tim. >> >> On Thu, Jan 9, 2025, 3:28 PM Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >> wrote: >> >> > I am used to getting an email from Tim Keller when there is >> > a WLUG meeting. I am also used to it being on the second >> > Thursday of the month. One of those didn't happen. >> > >> > Two meetings ago I tried to do a presentation of LaTeX, >> > but share-screen did not work like it did three meetings ago. >> > >> > One meeting ago, share screen worked, but everyone was >> > talking about something else, and I wasn't really ready anyway. >> > >> > I could try again, though I am not really ready today either. >> > ---- >> > >> > Also >> > >> > > Hey Everybody, >> > > >> > > This is a reminder that we've got a meeting tomorrow at WPI! >> > > Time: 7pm >> > > Location: WPI Student Center Room 128 (Taylor Room) Down below the >> > stairs. >> > > Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >> > > Topic: frame.work laptop demo, passbolt demo >> > > >> > > Cara Salter has agreed to come and show off her frame.work laptop. This >> > > laptop is designed with upgrade ability in mind. Components such as the >> > > motherboard can be easily swapped for more powerful versions, etc. >> > >> > If Cara (or anyone with a frame.work) is still around, I would be >> > interested in an update on this. Does it still work, or did it >> > blow blue smoke? Did you actually upgrade anything? >> > Would you recomend it? >> > ---- >> > >> > Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> > >> > > I noticed in "dnf update" on Fedora 41: >> > > >> > > Installing: >> > > kernel x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 0.0 B >> > > kernel-core x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 73.6 MiB >> > > kernel-modules x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 62.5 MiB >> > > kernel-modules-core x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 37.1 MiB >> > > kernel-modules-extra x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 2.7 MiB >> > >> > OK. Google finds a page that says dnf is Fedora's replacement >> > for yum, which is apt or rpm re-done. Just another package manager. >> > >> > You installed a kernel; what did you notice that was interesting? > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/VAVLW… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/2ADQF… > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/5CIRD…

Jan. 14, 2025

Re: WLUG Meeting tonight?

by Tim Keller

Yeah, it probably would have saved me. On Thu, Jan 9, 2025 at 9:50 PM Joshua Stone via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I've found that moving my systems to Fedora Atomic has been great for > avoiding situations like this. The image-based OS update model of > rpm-ostree ensures that an update doesn't leave the OS in a broken state, > even if the update gets interrupted. > > https://coreos.github.io/rpm-ostree/ > https://fedoraproject.org/atomic-desktops/silverblue/ > > The introduction of bootupd in Fedora 41 has also helped ensure that the > bootloader gets updated properly outside of rpm-ostree. > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/FedoraSilverblueBootupd > > In essence, I get the leading-edge package updates of Fedora, with the > rock-solid reliability that LTS distros are typically associated with. > > - Josh > > On Thu, Jan 9, 2025 at 8:15 PM Chuck Anderson via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >> Fedora is always up-to-date with the newest kernels... >> >> On Thu, Jan 09, 2025 at 08:09:16PM -0500, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: >> > Chuck, >> > >> > That's awesome! I've seen there are apt repositories going as well! >> > >> > Since this week is a follies dejour for me.. You'll all laugh. >> > >> > Installing 6.12.8 I managed to mess up my order of operations and >> rebooted >> > before fully updating the boot loader.. >> > >> > Don't install kernels when you're sleepy.. >> > >> > Tim. >> > >> > On Thu, Jan 9, 2025, 3:28 PM Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> > >> > wrote: >> > >> > > I am used to getting an email from Tim Keller when there is >> > > a WLUG meeting. I am also used to it being on the second >> > > Thursday of the month. One of those didn't happen. >> > > >> > > Two meetings ago I tried to do a presentation of LaTeX, >> > > but share-screen did not work like it did three meetings ago. >> > > >> > > One meeting ago, share screen worked, but everyone was >> > > talking about something else, and I wasn't really ready anyway. >> > > >> > > I could try again, though I am not really ready today either. >> > > ---- >> > > >> > > Also >> > > >> > > > Hey Everybody, >> > > > >> > > > This is a reminder that we've got a meeting tomorrow at WPI! >> > > > Time: 7pm >> > > > Location: WPI Student Center Room 128 (Taylor Room) Down below the >> > > stairs. >> > > > Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >> > > > Topic: frame.work laptop demo, passbolt demo >> > > > >> > > > Cara Salter has agreed to come and show off her frame.work laptop. >> This >> > > > laptop is designed with upgrade ability in mind. Components such as >> the >> > > > motherboard can be easily swapped for more powerful versions, etc. >> > > >> > > If Cara (or anyone with a frame.work) is still around, I would be >> > > interested in an update on this. Does it still work, or did it >> > > blow blue smoke? Did you actually upgrade anything? >> > > Would you recomend it? >> > > ---- >> > > >> > > Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> > > >> > > > I noticed in "dnf update" on Fedora 41: >> > > > >> > > > Installing: >> > > > kernel x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 0.0 >> B >> > > > kernel-core x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 73.6 >> MiB >> > > > kernel-modules x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 62.5 >> MiB >> > > > kernel-modules-core x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 37.1 >> MiB >> > > > kernel-modules-extra x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 2.7 >> MiB >> > > >> > > OK. Google finds a page that says dnf is Fedora's replacement >> > > for yum, which is apt or rpm re-done. Just another package manager. >> > > >> > > You installed a kernel; what did you notice that was interesting? >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/VAVLW… >> > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/2ADQF… > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Jan. 14, 2025

Re: WLUG Meeting tonight?

by Joshua Stone

I've found that moving my systems to Fedora Atomic has been great for avoiding situations like this. The image-based OS update model of rpm-ostree ensures that an update doesn't leave the OS in a broken state, even if the update gets interrupted. https://coreos.github.io/rpm-ostree/ https://fedoraproject.org/atomic-desktops/silverblue/ The introduction of bootupd in Fedora 41 has also helped ensure that the bootloader gets updated properly outside of rpm-ostree. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/FedoraSilverblueBootupd In essence, I get the leading-edge package updates of Fedora, with the rock-solid reliability that LTS distros are typically associated with. - Josh On Thu, Jan 9, 2025 at 8:15 PM Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Fedora is always up-to-date with the newest kernels... > > On Thu, Jan 09, 2025 at 08:09:16PM -0500, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: > > Chuck, > > > > That's awesome! I've seen there are apt repositories going as well! > > > > Since this week is a follies dejour for me.. You'll all laugh. > > > > Installing 6.12.8 I managed to mess up my order of operations and > rebooted > > before fully updating the boot loader.. > > > > Don't install kernels when you're sleepy.. > > > > Tim. > > > > On Thu, Jan 9, 2025, 3:28 PM Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > > wrote: > > > > > I am used to getting an email from Tim Keller when there is > > > a WLUG meeting. I am also used to it being on the second > > > Thursday of the month. One of those didn't happen. > > > > > > Two meetings ago I tried to do a presentation of LaTeX, > > > but share-screen did not work like it did three meetings ago. > > > > > > One meeting ago, share screen worked, but everyone was > > > talking about something else, and I wasn't really ready anyway. > > > > > > I could try again, though I am not really ready today either. > > > ---- > > > > > > Also > > > > > > > Hey Everybody, > > > > > > > > This is a reminder that we've got a meeting tomorrow at WPI! > > > > Time: 7pm > > > > Location: WPI Student Center Room 128 (Taylor Room) Down below the > > > stairs. > > > > Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > > > > Topic: frame.work laptop demo, passbolt demo > > > > > > > > Cara Salter has agreed to come and show off her frame.work laptop. > This > > > > laptop is designed with upgrade ability in mind. Components such as > the > > > > motherboard can be easily swapped for more powerful versions, etc. > > > > > > If Cara (or anyone with a frame.work) is still around, I would be > > > interested in an update on this. Does it still work, or did it > > > blow blue smoke? Did you actually upgrade anything? > > > Would you recomend it? > > > ---- > > > > > > Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > > > > > I noticed in "dnf update" on Fedora 41: > > > > > > > > Installing: > > > > kernel x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 0.0 > B > > > > kernel-core x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 73.6 > MiB > > > > kernel-modules x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 62.5 > MiB > > > > kernel-modules-core x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 37.1 > MiB > > > > kernel-modules-extra x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 2.7 > MiB > > > > > > OK. Google finds a page that says dnf is Fedora's replacement > > > for yum, which is apt or rpm re-done. Just another package manager. > > > > > > You installed a kernel; what did you notice that was interesting? > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/VAVLW… >

Jan. 10, 2025

Re: WLUG Meeting tonight?

by Chuck Anderson

Fedora is always up-to-date with the newest kernels... On Thu, Jan 09, 2025 at 08:09:16PM -0500, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: > Chuck, > > That's awesome! I've seen there are apt repositories going as well! > > Since this week is a follies dejour for me.. You'll all laugh. > > Installing 6.12.8 I managed to mess up my order of operations and rebooted > before fully updating the boot loader.. > > Don't install kernels when you're sleepy.. > > Tim. > > On Thu, Jan 9, 2025, 3:28 PM Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > > > I am used to getting an email from Tim Keller when there is > > a WLUG meeting. I am also used to it being on the second > > Thursday of the month. One of those didn't happen. > > > > Two meetings ago I tried to do a presentation of LaTeX, > > but share-screen did not work like it did three meetings ago. > > > > One meeting ago, share screen worked, but everyone was > > talking about something else, and I wasn't really ready anyway. > > > > I could try again, though I am not really ready today either. > > ---- > > > > Also > > > > > Hey Everybody, > > > > > > This is a reminder that we've got a meeting tomorrow at WPI! > > > Time: 7pm > > > Location: WPI Student Center Room 128 (Taylor Room) Down below the > > stairs. > > > Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > > > Topic: frame.work laptop demo, passbolt demo > > > > > > Cara Salter has agreed to come and show off her frame.work laptop. This > > > laptop is designed with upgrade ability in mind. Components such as the > > > motherboard can be easily swapped for more powerful versions, etc. > > > > If Cara (or anyone with a frame.work) is still around, I would be > > interested in an update on this. Does it still work, or did it > > blow blue smoke? Did you actually upgrade anything? > > Would you recomend it? > > ---- > > > > Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > > > I noticed in "dnf update" on Fedora 41: > > > > > > Installing: > > > kernel x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 0.0 B > > > kernel-core x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 73.6 MiB > > > kernel-modules x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 62.5 MiB > > > kernel-modules-core x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 37.1 MiB > > > kernel-modules-extra x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 2.7 MiB > > > > OK. Google finds a page that says dnf is Fedora's replacement > > for yum, which is apt or rpm re-done. Just another package manager. > > > > You installed a kernel; what did you notice that was interesting?

Jan. 10, 2025

Re: WLUG Meeting tonight?

by Tim Keller

Chuck, That's awesome! I've seen there are apt repositories going as well! Since this week is a follies dejour for me.. You'll all laugh. Installing 6.12.8 I managed to mess up my order of operations and rebooted before fully updating the boot loader.. Don't install kernels when you're sleepy.. Tim. On Thu, Jan 9, 2025, 3:28 PM Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I am used to getting an email from Tim Keller when there is > a WLUG meeting. I am also used to it being on the second > Thursday of the month. One of those didn't happen. > > Two meetings ago I tried to do a presentation of LaTeX, > but share-screen did not work like it did three meetings ago. > > One meeting ago, share screen worked, but everyone was > talking about something else, and I wasn't really ready anyway. > > I could try again, though I am not really ready today either. > ---- > > Also > > > Hey Everybody, > > > > This is a reminder that we've got a meeting tomorrow at WPI! > > Time: 7pm > > Location: WPI Student Center Room 128 (Taylor Room) Down below the > stairs. > > Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > > Topic: frame.work laptop demo, passbolt demo > > > > Cara Salter has agreed to come and show off her frame.work laptop. This > > laptop is designed with upgrade ability in mind. Components such as the > > motherboard can be easily swapped for more powerful versions, etc. > > If Cara (or anyone with a frame.work) is still around, I would be > interested in an update on this. Does it still work, or did it > blow blue smoke? Did you actually upgrade anything? > Would you recomend it? > ---- > > Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > I noticed in "dnf update" on Fedora 41: > > > > Installing: > > kernel x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 0.0 B > > kernel-core x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 73.6 MiB > > kernel-modules x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 62.5 MiB > > kernel-modules-core x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 37.1 MiB > > kernel-modules-extra x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 2.7 MiB > > OK. Google finds a page that says dnf is Fedora's replacement > for yum, which is apt or rpm re-done. Just another package manager. > > You installed a kernel; what did you notice that was interesting? > > -- Keith > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/WMLWN… >

Jan. 10, 2025

No wlug tonight.. next Thursday

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody.. Yeah.. what can I say, I was in Cali last week.. Wlug is going to be next Thursday. Sorry for all the confusion! Thanks, Tim.

Jan. 10, 2025

WLUG Meeting tonight?

by Keith Wright

I am used to getting an email from Tim Keller when there is a WLUG meeting. I am also used to it being on the second Thursday of the month. One of those didn't happen. Two meetings ago I tried to do a presentation of LaTeX, but share-screen did not work like it did three meetings ago. One meeting ago, share screen worked, but everyone was talking about something else, and I wasn't really ready anyway. I could try again, though I am not really ready today either. ---- Also > Hey Everybody, > > This is a reminder that we've got a meeting tomorrow at WPI! > Time: 7pm > Location: WPI Student Center Room 128 (Taylor Room) Down below the stairs. > Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > Topic: frame.work laptop demo, passbolt demo > > Cara Salter has agreed to come and show off her frame.work laptop. This > laptop is designed with upgrade ability in mind. Components such as the > motherboard can be easily swapped for more powerful versions, etc. If Cara (or anyone with a frame.work) is still around, I would be interested in an update on this. Does it still work, or did it blow blue smoke? Did you actually upgrade anything? Would you recomend it? ---- Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > I noticed in "dnf update" on Fedora 41: > > Installing: > kernel x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 0.0 B > kernel-core x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 73.6 MiB > kernel-modules x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 62.5 MiB > kernel-modules-core x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 37.1 MiB > kernel-modules-extra x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 2.7 MiB OK. Google finds a page that says dnf is Fedora's replacement for yum, which is apt or rpm re-done. Just another package manager. You installed a kernel; what did you notice that was interesting? -- Keith

Jan. 9, 2025

Re: Happy Whatever-mas!

by Chuck Anderson

Tim, I fixed it for you. Gmail bounces emails it thinks are malicious. Indeed, someone sent a virus to the list. Only the moderators got the message because the list is moderated. But moderators who use gmail didn't get it because gmail "protected" them. On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 11:40:17AM -0500, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: > Keith, > > The message was from the software that hosts the mailing list. The email in > essence said, "you will no longer be receiving emails from the wlug mailing > list due to excessive number of bounces." > Clearly, that message was in error.. since I'm getting them just fine. > > Very weird. > > Tim. > > On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 9:17 AM Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us> wrote: > > > Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > > > I weirdly got a message telling me that my account had been suspended > > from the > > > mailing list because of too many bounces? > > > > ???? Message from who? Who bounced what? ??? > > > > > In any case, I hope this message finds everybody. Next year is going to > > be an > > > exciting year for linux and for WLUG. > > > > It found me.

Dec. 27, 2024

Re: Happy Merry and a Very New Year

by Keith Wright

Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > The message was from the software that hosts the mailing list. The > email in essence said, "you will no longer be receiving emails from > the wlug mailing list due to excessive number of bounces." I maintain a couple of mailing lists for friends and family that have been much the same since the 20th century. I had to move them from a computer in my basement, to a VPS in the fog^H^H^H cloud when they took away my IP address, but it's still Postfix SMTP configured to forward without change. I have found the gmail.com can be erratic. Often it delays (defers) msgs without bouncing them. I only saw them bounce once--- no idea why. The error message rotates between three or four variants, sometimes different for re-tries of the same msg. Sometimes it goes through after a day or more. Once I canceled a message that was stuck in the queue for more than a day waiting for gmail.com, but a yahoo.com user got it and replied, quoting the entire first message. That quickly went through to all, including gmail, while the first one was still in the queue. I figured everyone had seen it, if only as quoted, and there was no reason to keep pushing it. I find this annoying. Maybe the WLUG server does too. > Clearly, that message was in error.. since I'm getting them just fine. Well, many of them are addresed to you in addition to WLUG. This one purposely is not. Check that the ones you get are forwarded through the list and not just sent directly to you. I get two copies of many messages To: WLUG and CC: me. Also check if there is a big difference betweeen the Date: on the msg and the time you get it. -- Keith

Dec. 26, 2024

Re: Happy Whatever-mas!

by Tim Keller

Keith, The message was from the software that hosts the mailing list. The email in essence said, "you will no longer be receiving emails from the wlug mailing list due to excessive number of bounces." Clearly, that message was in error.. since I'm getting them just fine. Very weird. Tim. On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 9:17 AM Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us> wrote: > Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > I weirdly got a message telling me that my account had been suspended > from the > > mailing list because of too many bounces? > > ???? Message from who? Who bounced what? ??? > > > In any case, I hope this message finds everybody. Next year is going to > be an > > exciting year for linux and for WLUG. > > It found me. > > -- Keith > > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Dec. 26, 2024

Re: Happy Whatever-mas!

by Evan White

I got a confirmation email on the 24th and can confirm I'm getting new messages from the list. I regret missing the meeting on the 12th, looking back I was knee deep in Google Workspace scripting and got completely time warped. See you all at the next meeting! ERW ________________________________ From: Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2024 8:22 AM To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Cc: Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> Subject: [WLUG] Happy Whatever-mas! I hope everybody had a great [insert holiday appropriate for your specific belief system]! I weirdly got a message telling me that my account had been suspended from the mailing list because of too many bounces? In any case, I hope this message finds everybody. Next year is going to be an exciting year for linux and for WLUG. Stay safe everybody, and have a happy new year! Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Dec. 26, 2024

Re: Happy Whatever-mas!

by Keith Wright

Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > I weirdly got a message telling me that my account had been suspended from the > mailing list because of too many bounces? ???? Message from who? Who bounced what? ??? > In any case, I hope this message finds everybody. Next year is going to be an > exciting year for linux and for WLUG. It found me. -- Keith

Dec. 26, 2024

Happy Whatever-mas!

by Tim Keller

I hope everybody had a great [insert holiday appropriate for your specific belief system]! I weirdly got a message telling me that my account had been suspended from the mailing list because of too many bounces? In any case, I hope this message finds everybody. Next year is going to be an exciting year for linux and for WLUG. Stay safe everybody, and have a happy new year! Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Dec. 26, 2024

Re: Reminder: WLUG Meeting TONIGHT! Topic: Linux Kernel 6.12.x!

by Tim Keller

Very cool! The meeting went great. I ended up doing an inadvertent demo of the kernel when I had jitsi going, a compile on 2 of my 4 cores, plus running cad and my machine just kept on chugging. Technocopia was having a holiday party so we had lots of people wander in as well. All in all, it was great. Tim. On Mon, Dec 16, 2024, 10:22 AM Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > How was the meeting? > > I noticed in "dnf update" on Fedora 41: > > Installing: > kernel x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 > updates 0.0 B > kernel-core x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 > updates 73.6 MiB > kernel-modules x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 > updates 62.5 MiB > kernel-modules-core x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 > updates 37.1 MiB > kernel-modules-extra x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 > updates 2.7 MiB > > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 04:31:35PM -0500, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: > > Hey Everybody, > > > > We've got a meeting tonight! The topic is going to be the latest linux > > kernel. > > I'm going to go into why I decided to make the leap and why it might work > > for you too! > > I'll get into what it took for me to build it and some of the nifty > > innovations it brings to the table! > > > > Date: December 12th, 2024 > > Time: 7pm > > Location: 44 Portland Street, Worcester MA. > > The virtual location is here: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > > > > Thanks, > > Tim. > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/UEUA7… >

Dec. 17, 2024

Re: Reminder: WLUG Meeting TONIGHT! Topic: Linux Kernel 6.12.x!

by Chuck Anderson

How was the meeting? I noticed in "dnf update" on Fedora 41: Installing: kernel x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 0.0 B kernel-core x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 73.6 MiB kernel-modules x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 62.5 MiB kernel-modules-core x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 37.1 MiB kernel-modules-extra x86_64 6.12.4-200.fc41 updates 2.7 MiB On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 04:31:35PM -0500, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: > Hey Everybody, > > We've got a meeting tonight! The topic is going to be the latest linux > kernel. > I'm going to go into why I decided to make the leap and why it might work > for you too! > I'll get into what it took for me to build it and some of the nifty > innovations it brings to the table! > > Date: December 12th, 2024 > Time: 7pm > Location: 44 Portland Street, Worcester MA. > The virtual location is here: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > > Thanks, > Tim.

Dec. 16, 2024

Reminder: WLUG Meeting TONIGHT! Topic: Linux Kernel 6.12.x!

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody, We've got a meeting tonight! The topic is going to be the latest linux kernel. I'm going to go into why I decided to make the leap and why it might work for you too! I'll get into what it took for me to build it and some of the nifty innovations it brings to the table! Date: December 12th, 2024 Time: 7pm Location: 44 Portland Street, Worcester MA. The virtual location is here: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Thanks, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Dec. 12, 2024

Re: Seeking Linux Help

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "gmcaplan---" == gmcaplan--- via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Seeking help. > I need help repairing my Ubuntu computer. happy to try! > A. Can anybody lend me a boot repair flash drive or CD and/or one with Ubuntu 20 or later. Do you have any other computers? And a USB flash drive which is empty? Then you could just download the basic Ubuntu ISO and put it on the flash drive and boot from there. > B. Provide me some advice how to proceed. Can boot older version > (16) of Ubuntu but not ver. 20. So you're dual booting? If you can boot Ubuntu 16, then you should be able to download the install ISO for 20 and copy that using 'dd' to the thumb drive. Or download an install 'ventoy' onto a thumbdrive, so you can have multiple different ISOs on one thumb drive and boot from which ever one you want. > Error msg: ... not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown > block(0,0) I will greatly appreciate any help. This sounds like your Ubuntu 20.x install went south. Was this a new install or your current system? Did you apply any updates before this problem came up? So I think what you want to do is boot an Ubunto 20.04 or 20.10 ISO, and then go into 'rescue' mode or shell mode. I honestly forget. But the idea is to then get into your setup, chroot to your old non-booting setup and re-run the 'update-grub' or 'update-initramfs' tools to rebuild your setup. But we do need more details. Would it be possible for you to bring the computer to a WLUG meeting? People would be able to help you there more quickly than over email. I might or might not be there tonight, and I'm busy all weekend with other stuff. > George Caplan > Acton, MA > email: gmcaplan(a)gmcaplan.org > Phone: 978-263-5288 (landline, no texts) > On 2024-12-10 5:57 am, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: > Good, you passed the test! > On Mon, Dec 9, 2024, 9:57 PM Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us> wrote: > Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> We've got a meeting this Thursday at Technocopia in Worcester! >> Time: 7PM >> Date: Dec 12th, 2024 "20241224" > Wow! You scared me. WLUG on Christmas Eve! > No. > Some people like to put the year first, some last, > but you only get one choice: "20241212" > -- Keith > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/E7F4V… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BZG2X…

Dec. 12, 2024

Seeking Linux Help

by gmcaplan＠gmcaplan.org

Seeking help. I need help repairing my Ubuntu computer. A. Can anybody lend me a boot repair flash drive or CD and/or one with Ubuntu 20 or later. B. Provide me some advice how to proceed. Can boot older version (16) of Ubuntu but not ver. 20. Error msg: ... not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown block(0,0) I will greatly appreciate any help. Thank you. George Caplan Acton, MA email: gmcaplan(a)gmcaplan.org Phone: 978-263-5288 (landline, no texts) On 2024-12-10 5:57 am, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: > Good, you passed the test! > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2024, 9:57 PM Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us> > wrote: > >> Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> >>> We've got a meeting this Thursday at Technocopia in Worcester! >>> Time: 7PM >>> Date: Dec 12th, 2024 "20241224" >> >> Wow! You scared me. WLUG on Christmas Eve! >> >> No. >> >> Some people like to put the year first, some last, >> but you only get one choice: "20241212" >> >> -- Keith > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/E7F4V…

Dec. 12, 2024

Re: Reminder! WLUG Meeting THIS Thursday Dec 12th, 2024! Topic: Running kernel 6.12.x

by gmcaplan＠gmcaplan.org

I will try to attend the virtual meeting. George Caplan On 2024-12-09 8:35 pm, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: > Hey Everybody! > > We've got a meeting this Thursday at Technocopia in Worcester! > Time: 7PM > Date: Dec 12th, 2024 "20241224" > Location: 44 Portland St, Worcester Ma -> Technocopia > Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > Topic: Linux Kernel 6.12.x (x = 4 as of this writing!) > > I've been running the latest linux kernel!! Building it on a bunch of > different distros! > I'll get into why it's a leap forward, and how you can get it running > on your hardware as well! > I'm sure like usual we'll digress into a bunch of side topics, you know > us! > > Afterwards, we'll head out for dinner and keep the conversation going! > > I hope to see you there! > Later, > Tim. > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/NLNIU…

Dec. 12, 2024

Re: Reminder! WLUG Meeting THIS Thursday Dec 12th, 2024! Topic: Running kernel 6.12.x

by Tim Keller

Good, you passed the test! On Mon, Dec 9, 2024, 9:57 PM Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us> wrote: > Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > We've got a meeting this Thursday at Technocopia in Worcester! > > Time: 7PM > > Date: Dec 12th, 2024 "20241224" > > Wow! You scared me. WLUG on Christmas Eve! > > No. > > Some people like to put the year first, some last, > but you only get one choice: "20241212" > > -- Keith >

Dec. 10, 2024

Re: Reminder! WLUG Meeting THIS Thursday Dec 12th, 2024! Topic: Running kernel 6.12.x

by Keith Wright

Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > We've got a meeting this Thursday at Technocopia in Worcester! > Time: 7PM > Date: Dec 12th, 2024 "20241224" Wow! You scared me. WLUG on Christmas Eve! No. Some people like to put the year first, some last, but you only get one choice: "20241212" -- Keith

Dec. 10, 2024

Reminder! WLUG Meeting THIS Thursday Dec 12th, 2024! Topic: Running kernel 6.12.x

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody! We've got a meeting this Thursday at Technocopia in Worcester! Time: 7PM Date: Dec 12th, 2024 "20241224" Location: 44 Portland St, Worcester Ma -> Technocopia Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Topic: Linux Kernel 6.12.x (x = 4 as of this writing!) I've been running the latest linux kernel!! Building it on a bunch of different distros! I'll get into why it's a leap forward, and how you can get it running on your hardware as well! I'm sure like usual we'll digress into a bunch of side topics, you know us! Afterwards, we'll head out for dinner and keep the conversation going! I hope to see you there! Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Dec. 10, 2024

Re: Looking for anti-virus suggestion

by Chris Handwerker

This built in virus protection should catch most obvious malware. I would also recommend Firefox with the uBlock Origin extension. On 11/25/24 16:36, THE HAMMER via WLUG wrote: > I've got a friend who is looking to get a new laptop running Windows for his wife. He's asked me what virus protection should he get. I have no idea what's good nowadays. I would guess Windows Defender is built is, but can anyone advise me as to if he should get something more?

Dec. 2, 2024

Re: Reminder! Meeting tomorrow!! & My plan.

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Keith" == Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> Sorry the presentation didn't work out! Just wondering if you use >> '\slitex' to generate them? > No, that was obsolete and deprecated in 1999. I used \begin{slide} > environment in standard \LaTeXe. The slides and their TeX source > can be seen on my social media: > http://www.free-comp-shop.com/wlug/wlug.html Keith, I just found something for you to use on your website, a LaTeX style CCS sheet! https://latex.vercel.app/ This almost class-less CSS library turns your HTML document into a website that looks like a LaTeX document. Write semantic HTML, add <link rel="stylesheet" href="https://latex.vercel.app/style.css"> to the <head> of your project and you are good to go. The source code can be found on GitHub at https://github.com/vincentdoerig/latex-css.

Dec. 2, 2024

Re: Looking for anti-virus suggestion

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "THE" == THE HAMMER via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > I've got a friend who is looking to get a new laptop running Windows > for his wife. He's asked me what virus protection should he get. I > have no idea what's good nowadays. I would guess Windows Defender > is built is, but can anyone advise me as to if he should get > something more? Does she really need a Windows Laptop? Can she just get by with a Chrombook instead? Then alot of issues just go away... this is what I did for my mother-in-law and it works great. First one lastest 10 years, second one was only bought because she needed at 64bit compatible one. As for Windows Anti-virus, just use Windows Defender. But the key thing to do is to make her an non-admin user account on there. That helps block alot of problems. So if she does need to install new apps or such, she has to type the admin password in to install them. This slows things down from malicious programs. John

Dec. 2, 2024

Looking for anti-virus suggestion

by THE HAMMER

I've got a friend who is looking to get a new laptop running Windows for his wife. He's asked me what virus protection should he get. I have no idea what's good nowadays. I would guess Windows Defender is built is, but can anyone advise me as to if he should get something more?

Nov. 25, 2024

Re: Reminder! Meeting tomorrow!! & My plan.

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Keith" == Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us> writes: > John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> Sorry the presentation didn't work out! Just wondering if you use >> '\slitex' to generate them? > No, that was obsolete and deprecated in 1999. I used \begin{slide} > environment in standard \LaTeXe. The slides and their TeX source > can be seen on my social media: > http://www.free-comp-shop.com/wlug/wlug.html Tells you how old my LaTeX skills are then! :-)

Nov. 24, 2024

Re: Reminder! Meeting tomorrow!! & My plan.

by Keith Wright

John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Sorry the presentation didn't work out! Just wondering if you use > '\slitex' to generate them? No, that was obsolete and deprecated in 1999. I used \begin{slide} environment in standard \LaTeXe. The slides and their TeX source can be seen on my social media: http://www.free-comp-shop.com/wlug/wlug.html -- Keith

Nov. 23, 2024

Re: Reminder! Meeting tomorrow!! & My plan.

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Keith" == Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> >> Hey Gang! >> >> Location: Technocopia, 44 Portland St. Worcester MA. >> Date: November 21st, 2024 >> Time: 7PM >> Topic: Going rogue. >> >> I know, a flashy title to draw you in! Let's be frank, the digital landscape >> is looking a bit bleak right now. More and more, I'm finding myself not that >> interested in posting anything about myself or my family because I don't >> need some AI algorithmically categorizing me. Even this email I'm sure is >> being analyzed by google.. gmail is free for a reason.. >> >> My plan is to show off a pi running mastodon and/or revolt with tailscale. >> I'd love to hear people's thoughts about this. If people even think the >> tailscale stuff is needed. >> >> See you there! >> Tim. > I can't go to Technocopia, but I plan to log in to > https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > You didn't mention that, but I hope and assume it is still on. > Some people on the mailing list expressed an interest in document > (book) production systems. I have made a few slides and planned a > short presentation of how I use LaTeX. Sorry the presentation didn't work out! Just wondering if you use '\slitex' to generate them? > I wouldn't want to take the whole meeting, but maybe 10 min > depending on how many questions people ask. Take as much time as you like! > I don't know what mastodon, revolt, or tailscale are. Will google. Social meeting tools. I looked at Mastodon myself today quickly, but I think I'll try spinning up a docker container at home inside a VM or something and see how to expose it lightly to the internet. > The problem is not the hardware in our houses, assuming you control > the software (like Linux), and it is not installed and updated by > sinister forces (like MS Window). > The problem is how to communicate through the internet without your > messages going into sinister databases. So there's the issue! If we want to have a productive conversation, then maybe we need to be willing to share our thoughts. Now maybe we limit who can "be in the room" to just those we like. Or just limit people who can write to those we like. But sharing the conversation isn't a terrible thing. > I used to run a smtp mail server on a computer in my basement with a > DSL connection and static IP address. They broke that. Now my > Rogue-ness consists in using a VPS in the cloud to do it. > Theoretically, the VPS provider could monitor everything I do, but I > am reasonably confident that I am not worth the trouble. I very much do the same thing. I'm I'm going nuts getting opendkim and postfix on Debian 12 working together to sign my outgoing emails properly. It's driving me nuts! > If the CIA or DOD use Windows or a cloud server, they have a > problem, because they are worth a lot of trouble. Cloudstrike! :-)

Nov. 23, 2024

Re: Tomorrows meeting will also have a virtual component

by Keith Wright

Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Sorry about that.. Yes, we will also have an online meeting! > At the usual spot as well: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA This has never happened before. It's 2024-11-21(Thu) 19:10:51EST(UTC-0500) and I am waiting for a moderator, checked address -- Keith

Nov. 22, 2024

Re: Reminder! Meeting tomorrow!! & My plan.

by steve＠patternsoft.net

Omg yes please. And can we have seconds and thirds of other services as appropriate. I’m out of town but love this idea! Sorry I can’t be there. > On Nov 20, 2024, at 12:40 PM, Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> >> Hey Gang! >> >> Location: Technocopia, 44 Portland St. Worcester MA. >> Date: November 21st, 2024 >> Time: 7PM >> Topic: Going rogue. >> >> I know, a flashy title to draw you in! Let's be frank, the digital landscape >> is looking a bit bleak right now. More and more, I'm finding myself not that >> interested in posting anything about myself or my family because I don't >> need some AI algorithmically categorizing me. Even this email I'm sure is >> being analyzed by google.. gmail is free for a reason.. >> >> My plan is to show off a pi running mastodon and/or revolt with tailscale. >> I'd love to hear people's thoughts about this. If people even think the >> tailscale stuff is needed. >> >> See you there! >> Tim. > > I can't go to Technocopia, but I plan to log in to > https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > You didn't mention that, but I hope and assume it is still on. > > Some people on the mailing list expressed an interest in > document (book) production systems. I have made a few > slides and planned a short presentation of how I use LaTeX. > > I wouldn't want to take the whole meeting, but maybe 10 min > depending on how many questions people ask. > > I don't know what mastodon, revolt, or tailscale are. Will google. > > I know what a (rasberry) pi is, but don't see how it helps. > > The problem is not the hardware in our houses, assuming > you control the software (like Linux), and it is not installed > and updated by sinister forces (like MS Window). > > The problem is how to communicate through the internet without > your messages going into sinister databases. > > I used to run a smtp mail server on a computer in my basement > with a DSL connection and static IP address. They broke that. > Now my Rogue-ness consists in using a VPS in the cloud to do it. > Theoretically, the VPS provider could monitor everything I do, > but I am reasonably confident that I am not worth the trouble. > > If the CIA or DOD use Windows or a cloud server, they have > a problem, because they are worth a lot of trouble. > > -- Keith > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/LYGSQ…

Nov. 20, 2024

Tomorrows meeting will also have a virtual component

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody, Sorry about that.. Yes, we will also have an online meeting! At the usual spot as well: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Nov. 20, 2024

Re: Reminder! Meeting tomorrow!! & My plan.

by Keith Wright

Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > Hey Gang! > > Location: Technocopia, 44 Portland St. Worcester MA. > Date: November 21st, 2024 > Time: 7PM > Topic: Going rogue. > > I know, a flashy title to draw you in! Let's be frank, the digital landscape > is looking a bit bleak right now. More and more, I'm finding myself not that > interested in posting anything about myself or my family because I don't > need some AI algorithmically categorizing me. Even this email I'm sure is > being analyzed by google.. gmail is free for a reason.. > > My plan is to show off a pi running mastodon and/or revolt with tailscale. > I'd love to hear people's thoughts about this. If people even think the > tailscale stuff is needed. > > See you there! > Tim. I can't go to Technocopia, but I plan to log in to https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA You didn't mention that, but I hope and assume it is still on. Some people on the mailing list expressed an interest in document (book) production systems. I have made a few slides and planned a short presentation of how I use LaTeX. I wouldn't want to take the whole meeting, but maybe 10 min depending on how many questions people ask. I don't know what mastodon, revolt, or tailscale are. Will google. I know what a (rasberry) pi is, but don't see how it helps. The problem is not the hardware in our houses, assuming you control the software (like Linux), and it is not installed and updated by sinister forces (like MS Window). The problem is how to communicate through the internet without your messages going into sinister databases. I used to run a smtp mail server on a computer in my basement with a DSL connection and static IP address. They broke that. Now my Rogue-ness consists in using a VPS in the cloud to do it. Theoretically, the VPS provider could monitor everything I do, but I am reasonably confident that I am not worth the trouble. If the CIA or DOD use Windows or a cloud server, they have a problem, because they are worth a lot of trouble. -- Keith

Nov. 20, 2024

Reminder! Meeting tomorrow!! Location: Technocopia, Topic: Going rogue.

by Tim Keller

Hey Gang! Location: Technocopia, 44 Portland St. Worcester MA. Date: November 21st, 2024 Time: 7PM Topic: Going rogue. I know, a flashy title to draw you in! Let's be frank, the digital landscape is looking a bit bleak right now. More and more, I'm finding myself not that interested in posting anything about myself or my family because I don't need some AI algorithmically categorizing me. Even this email I'm sure is being analyzed by google.. gmail is free for a reason.. I had an idea and that was this. Would people be interested in a mastodon server running inside a tailscale mesh? Or some other service, like IRC or https://revolt.chat/ or I'm sure other people have other great ideas. My plan is to show off a pi running mastodon and/or revolt with tailscale. I'd love to hear people's thoughts about this. If people even think the tailscale stuff is needed. So that's my thought for what we might talk about. As usual, there will be dinner afterwards and I'm sure we'll keep talking. See you there! Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Nov. 20, 2024

Reminder! WLUG meeting next week!!

by Tim Keller

Just in case people forgot.. WLUG will be on the 21st! I hope to see you there!! Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Nov. 14, 2024

Does Poxmox Virtualize H.264 encoding

by Kevin Stratton

I occasionally use OBS studio as a screen recorder in my main OS and my CPU is a little light for CPU encoding of video. I have been considering using Proxmox as my hypervisor in place of Virtualbox on my single desktop. Does anyone have any idea if proxmox provides virtual H.264 hardware encoder support like there is a virtual device for keyboard and mouse? From what I have been able to determine, I can not use a pass-through unless I get a second video card, and I suspect there will be other limitations. Right now, I can not get another video card due to a shortage of PCIe slots, $$ and power supply capacity .

Nov. 10, 2024

Re: Software to write books

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "hammerron" == hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Thank you all for the great responses. I'm pretty sure that LaTex > was the software that I was trying to remember the name of. I have > been currently using Libre Office. I think I will stay with it for > now and will also keep notes on the others mentioned. The responses > are so helpful, as it gives me new ideas, such as having some of my > longer personal items printed by a print shop. I also find the idea > of Sigil editing epubs as interesting. > At the rate I'm going it could be a few years, I'll see what > happens. It's on mineralogy. The writing is very slow moving with > my time constraints. It's only at 34 pages currently. When it > grows to sufficient content I was thinking of self-publishing with > Lulu or something similar. I asked about the writing software in > case moving away Libre Office was necessary. So this type of document, where you have figures, equations, cross references, etc is where LaTeX shines. You can also use LyX which is the WYSIWYG version of TeX/LaTeX editor. The nice part is you can break things into chapters, and have a makefile assemble it all for you into a book and create an index automatically, along with Table of Contents, etc. And since you can just use plain text, it keeps you from agonizing over the look over the paper at first, letting you concentrate on the content. In any case, good luck! I know how terrible a writer I am, and how slow it would take me as well. John

Oct. 28, 2024

Remote management dongle

by John Stoffel

Guys, I'm posting this for Tim, who texted me this kickstarter link earlier today: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jetkvm/jetkvm Which looks interesting, and I'm certainly tempted to spend $70 bucks on a whim. I _am_ worried about how slick the presentation is, and the talk about the "Jetkvm Cloud" for remote access. No thank you. What do other people think? John

Oct. 28, 2024

Re: Software to write books

by hammerron

Thank you all for the great responses. I'm pretty sure that LaTex was the software that I was trying to remember the name of. I have been currently using Libre Office. I think I will stay with it for now and will also keep notes on the others mentioned. The responses are so helpful, as it gives me new ideas, such as having some of my longer personal items printed by a print shop. I also find the idea of Sigil editing epubs as interesting. At the rate I'm going it could be a few years, I'll see what happens. It's on mineralogy. The writing is very slow moving with my time constraints. It's only at 34 pages currently. When it grows to sufficient content I was thinking of self-publishing with Lulu or something similar. I asked about the writing software in case moving away Libre Office was necessary. Ron On 10/20/24 13:44, hammerron via WLUG wrote: > Probably a couple years back, I think Tim might have mentioned a > software program that was used by many people to write and edit books > with. I think the perk was that it was easier to work with the font > types than it was in Microsoft Word or Libre Office. > > Would anyone recall what software that was? > > Ron > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/YE2EM…

Oct. 26, 2024

Re: Software to write books

by Keith Wright

hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Probably a couple years back, I think Tim might have mentioned a > software program that was used by many people to write and edit books It depends on what kind of "book". If you want to get it published or accepted as a dissertation, the deciding factor is what the publisher or school wants. If you just mean you want to write many pages and get them bound for personal use, I have gone to Park/Print in Worcester (very near my house) with a *.pdf file containing a math book, a Scheme report, or my own notes. They print it two sided 8.5x11 and bind it in a soft plastic cover and "comb" binding for short money. https://www.parkprintonline.com/ I have also gotten hard cover binding with title on the spine (back). I did this twice, once for my dissertation, once for some of my grandmother's writing. They cut it to the size you want. There was a place in Newton that did that, I don't know if they are still there. Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Maybe you are thinking of LaTeX (pronounced La-Tech)? In my bombastic opinion, if you need to write mathematics, you would be crazy to use anything else. I use emacs, LaTeX, and evince every day. Last meeting I tried the share-screen feature of jit.si and it worked. Tim asked "What's an idempotent monad?" or something like that. (It was in the title of the document on my screen.) I was not prepared to summarize a decade of grad school in a few seconds, and so did not answer. But if you promise not to ask too much about what it means, I could put together a few slides and demonstrations to show what it can do and how I use it. I would not want to take up the whole meeting, but maybe a few other people could do the same with their own favorite document production systems. -- Keith

Oct. 24, 2024

Shifting next meeting down a Thursday.

by Tim Keller

I have a conflict on the 14th so I'm shifting the meeting down to the 21st. For topics, I was thinking about talking about searx, the self hosted search aggregator. Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Oct. 23, 2024

Re: Software to write books

by Dennis Payne

For writing I like plume creator. You can't do formatting in it but it has allows you to organize a lot of information like character bios, important locations, etc. You can break chapters into scenes. On Sun, 2024-10-20 at 13:44 -0400, hammerron via WLUG wrote: > Probably a couple years back, I think Tim might have mentioned a > software program that was used by many people to write and edit books > with. I think the perk was that it was easier to work with the font > types than it was in Microsoft Word or Libre Office. > > Would anyone recall what software that was? > > Ron > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/YE2EM…

Oct. 23, 2024

Re: Software to write books

by Tim Keller

Ron, While I definitely have an interest in using something like LaTeX to format my books, I've been using a couple other pieces of software. 1. I've been writing in LibreOffice and then exporting as an epub / pdf / odf. 2. To so some specialized stuff I've been importing the epub into "Sigll" ( https://sigil-ebook.com/) to look at the indexes and create tables of contents. I've then been using github as an off machine backup solution so if this laptop was to cook off I wouldn't lose tons of work. It's also a pretty good medium to self publish stuff that you don't care if people see. Hope that helps! Tim. On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 2:31 PM Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Maybe you are thinking of LaTeX (pronounced La-Tech)? It is a "What You > See Is What You Mean" (WYSIWYM) markup language, rather than "What You See > Is What You Get" (WYSIWYG) like most word processor software. You write > your document using a text editor, mark it up using specific LaTeX language > elements, then "compile" it into your final document (PDF, etc.) There is > a GUI for LaTeX too, called LyX (and apparently some newer ones: > https://beebom.com/best-latex-editors/) > > Or are you thinking of trofff/nroff which predates LaTeX? Speaking of > which, would WLUG members be interested in Maddog giving a talk about the > latter? I'm sure Maddog wouldn't mind me reposting his Facebook post about > talks he gave on troff/nroff in 1984: > > "In 1984 I wrote some troff macros that would allow me to easily update > and format my resume. I wrote these macros to help illustrate one of three > talks I gave at DECUS. > > The three talks were: > > o "nroff(1) for beginners: All I want to do is write a simple letter" > o "troff(1) for nroff(1)ers" All I want to do is write a simple resume" > o "macro writing for nroff(1)ers and troff(1)ers: All I want to do is help > someone else write a simple resume" > > The talks were very successful, with the first talk attracting 30 people, > the second talk attracting 150 and the third talk had standing room only > with people in the hallway trying to hear. Over the years I changed the > engine from AT&T troff(1) which was really only good for a certain type of > typesetter, to device independent troff (ditroff) to GNU troff (groff) > which produced PostScript. In all that time I did not have to change my > macros in the least, nor the input to the macros. Two days ago someone > asked me for a copy of my resume, and I realized that I had not updated it > since the year 2000, and that was also the last time I had used my macros > or groff(1). I tried to take the PDF of my last resume and update it with > Libre Office Writer, but that would take a VERY long time just to update > it, and even longer to get the formatting right. Then I went into vim(1) > and just added a page or two to the sources for my year 2000 resume, typed > in the one command line I needed and created a pdf of my updated resume. > Total time: two hours. Not bad for forty year old "code". > " > On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 01:44:56PM GMT, hammerron via WLUG wrote: > > Probably a couple years back, I think Tim might have mentioned a > > software program that was used by many people to write and edit books > > with. I think the perk was that it was easier to work with the font > > types than it was in Microsoft Word or Libre Office. > > > > Would anyone recall what software that was? > > > > Ron > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/7RS2T… > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Oct. 22, 2024

Re: Software to write books

by Chuck Anderson

Maybe you are thinking of LaTeX (pronounced La-Tech)? It is a "What You See Is What You Mean" (WYSIWYM) markup language, rather than "What You See Is What You Get" (WYSIWYG) like most word processor software. You write your document using a text editor, mark it up using specific LaTeX language elements, then "compile" it into your final document (PDF, etc.) There is a GUI for LaTeX too, called LyX (and apparently some newer ones: https://beebom.com/best-latex-editors/) Or are you thinking of trofff/nroff which predates LaTeX? Speaking of which, would WLUG members be interested in Maddog giving a talk about the latter? I'm sure Maddog wouldn't mind me reposting his Facebook post about talks he gave on troff/nroff in 1984: "In 1984 I wrote some troff macros that would allow me to easily update and format my resume. I wrote these macros to help illustrate one of three talks I gave at DECUS. The three talks were: o "nroff(1) for beginners: All I want to do is write a simple letter" o "troff(1) for nroff(1)ers" All I want to do is write a simple resume" o "macro writing for nroff(1)ers and troff(1)ers: All I want to do is help someone else write a simple resume" The talks were very successful, with the first talk attracting 30 people, the second talk attracting 150 and the third talk had standing room only with people in the hallway trying to hear. Over the years I changed the engine from AT&T troff(1) which was really only good for a certain type of typesetter, to device independent troff (ditroff) to GNU troff (groff) which produced PostScript. In all that time I did not have to change my macros in the least, nor the input to the macros. Two days ago someone asked me for a copy of my resume, and I realized that I had not updated it since the year 2000, and that was also the last time I had used my macros or groff(1). I tried to take the PDF of my last resume and update it with Libre Office Writer, but that would take a VERY long time just to update it, and even longer to get the formatting right. Then I went into vim(1) and just added a page or two to the sources for my year 2000 resume, typed in the one command line I needed and created a pdf of my updated resume. Total time: two hours. Not bad for forty year old "code". " On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 01:44:56PM GMT, hammerron via WLUG wrote: > Probably a couple years back, I think Tim might have mentioned a > software program that was used by many people to write and edit books > with. I think the perk was that it was easier to work with the font > types than it was in Microsoft Word or Libre Office. > > Would anyone recall what software that was? > > Ron

Oct. 20, 2024

Software to write books

by hammerron

Probably a couple years back, I think Tim might have mentioned a software program that was used by many people to write and edit books with. I think the perk was that it was easier to work with the font types than it was in Microsoft Word or Libre Office. Would anyone recall what software that was? Ron

Oct. 20, 2024

Re: Stuck in traffic

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Althea" == Althea Shaheen <lists(a)altheashaheen.com> writes: > I would love to hear more from you John about what your experience > is with TrueNAS Enterprise versus NetApp, as I am looking at the > same options myself. We have used NetApp for longer than I have been > around but the cost of it is a whole different level than what I > imagine TrueNAS would be. I've used Scale personally and Core for > backup systems at work, but the HA/failover is what I am most > curious about if we went the route of Enterprise. With Netapp... it's solid. Rock solid. It just works. Failover works, no interrupptions with clients. It's really really really solid. I love them. And you can split things up and add tons of VLANs, volumes, etc. Snapshots, ESX integration if you want to go that route, etc. But it's not cheap. You pay for what you get. It's annoying that they now do capacity based licensing. TrueNAS. It's easy enough to use (though the CLI sucks, I've got a bunch of scripts to pull data out using the API with python). I'm using the legacy 13.0 Enterprise BSD based stuff. TrueNAS recently moved to the linux based SCALE edition, but I have no experience with it. So far performance is good, it's ZFS, and it just runs. But we're not putting it under huge performance stress, so I can't talk to how well it scales or performs. I've used Netapps for 26+) years now. Super solid systems. I love how you can grow/shrink volumes (NFS/CIFS) on the fly. No hassles. TrueNAS is fixed volumes you can expand only. So you need to look at Scale Enterprise and see what they will quote you for support, and maybe you can get in a test system to see how failover works. In my case, since TrueNAS Enterprise is Active/Passive, failover takes too long in my book. Sorry, this reply is all over the place as I free associate my reply. > On Fri, Oct 11, 2024, at 09:36, John Stoffel via WLUG wrote: >>>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> >>> I'm currently stuck in traffic I should be there for about 7:10 >> >> So how did the meeting go? Any comments or thoughts on ZFS and how >> it's useful and how it can be abused? >> >> I'm using ZFS on a TrueNAS Enterprise cluster, which works, but has >> it's issues, mostly around failover speed. Been spoiled by Netapps >> for too many years. >> >> I've also managed to make Oracle branded ZFS appliances fall over due >> to load, so I have reservations about ZFS to this day. >> >> I do like the *ideas* behind it, and some of the powerful features it >> has. But the layering violations make me worry. >> >> Just go look at the problems btrfs has had trying to do it's own RAID5 >> instead of just layering on top of MD RAID5 (which I also admit has had >> problems too! Nothing is perfect...). >> >> The goals of ZFS in terms of file content checksums are awesome, I >> really like that. I just wish there was a better way to actually >> shrink ZFS filesystems (even if done as any offline process) without >> jumping through all kinds of hoops. >> >> Anyway, I hope to see you all at the next meeting! >> John >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/SQAQ6…

Oct. 11, 2024

Re: Stuck in traffic

by Althea Shaheen

I would love to hear more from you John about what your experience is with TrueNAS Enterprise versus NetApp, as I am looking at the same options myself. We have used NetApp for longer than I have been around but the cost of it is a whole different level than what I imagine TrueNAS would be. I've used Scale personally and Core for backup systems at work, but the HA/failover is what I am most curious about if we went the route of Enterprise. -Althea On Fri, Oct 11, 2024, at 09:36, John Stoffel via WLUG wrote: >>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > >> I'm currently stuck in traffic I should be there for about 7:10 > > So how did the meeting go? Any comments or thoughts on ZFS and how > it's useful and how it can be abused? > > I'm using ZFS on a TrueNAS Enterprise cluster, which works, but has > it's issues, mostly around failover speed. Been spoiled by Netapps > for too many years. > > I've also managed to make Oracle branded ZFS appliances fall over due > to load, so I have reservations about ZFS to this day. > > I do like the *ideas* behind it, and some of the powerful features it > has. But the layering violations make me worry. > > Just go look at the problems btrfs has had trying to do it's own RAID5 > instead of just layering on top of MD RAID5 (which I also admit has had > problems too! Nothing is perfect...). > > The goals of ZFS in terms of file content checksums are awesome, I > really like that. I just wish there was a better way to actually > shrink ZFS filesystems (even if done as any offline process) without > jumping through all kinds of hoops. > > Anyway, I hope to see you all at the next meeting! > John > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/SQAQ6…

Oct. 11, 2024

Re: Stuck in traffic

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > I'm currently stuck in traffic I should be there for about 7:10 So how did the meeting go? Any comments or thoughts on ZFS and how it's useful and how it can be abused? I'm using ZFS on a TrueNAS Enterprise cluster, which works, but has it's issues, mostly around failover speed. Been spoiled by Netapps for too many years. I've also managed to make Oracle branded ZFS appliances fall over due to load, so I have reservations about ZFS to this day. I do like the *ideas* behind it, and some of the powerful features it has. But the layering violations make me worry. Just go look at the problems btrfs has had trying to do it's own RAID5 instead of just layering on top of MD RAID5 (which I also admit has had problems too! Nothing is perfect...). The goals of ZFS in terms of file content checksums are awesome, I really like that. I just wish there was a better way to actually shrink ZFS filesystems (even if done as any offline process) without jumping through all kinds of hoops. Anyway, I hope to see you all at the next meeting! John

Oct. 11, 2024

Stuck in traffic

by Tim Keller

I'm currently stuck in traffic I should be there for about 7:10

Oct. 10, 2024

Re: Reminder! WLUG Meeting tonight! Topic: ZFS!

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Time: 7pm > Date: Oct 10th, 2024 > Location: Technocopia, 44 Portland St. Worcester MA > Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > Topic: Zettabyte File System (ZFS). I thought I'd give a quick demo > of ZFS, what it is and how I'm using it in an enterprise > environment. I'll create some filesystems, do some hacky stuff with > them, etc.. Can you shrink it yet? > As usual, I'm sure we'll chat about lots of other stuff as well.. > I hope to see you there! > Tim. > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/A2E5K…

Oct. 10, 2024

Reminder! WLUG Meeting tonight! Topic: ZFS!

by Tim Keller

Time: 7pm Date: Oct 10th, 2024 Location: Technocopia, 44 Portland St. Worcester MA Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Topic: Zettabyte File System (ZFS). I thought I'd give a quick demo of ZFS, what it is and how I'm using it in an enterprise environment. I'll create some filesystems, do some hacky stuff with them, etc.. As usual, I'm sure we'll chat about lots of other stuff as well.. I hope to see you there! Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Oct. 10, 2024

Re: Meeting tomorrow!! Oct 10th 2024!

by John Stoffel

Sorry all, I can't make it, have my show opening that night. Come see "39 Steps" at Calliope Theatre in Boylston over the next two weekends! Jphn

Oct. 9, 2024

Meeting tomorrow!! Oct 10th 2024!

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody! Sorry for the late notice.. Frankly our entire house was under the weather with covid.. it sucked. But we're all negative and feeling better! We've got a meeting Tomorrow at Technocopia! Date: Oct 10th 2024 Time: 7PM Location: 44 Portland St Worcester MA Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Topic: TBD.. Would be interested in me doing a ZFS demo? Thanks, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Oct. 9, 2024

Re: Testing?

by Joshua Stone

Indeed, make sure to patch CUPS as soon as possible! https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/red-hat-response-openprinting-cups-vulnerabi… - Josh On Fri, Sep 27, 2024, 4:36 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Just making sure that people are getting my emails.. > > Patch your CUPS if you haven't already! > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/4DYHG… >

Oct. 1, 2024

Re: Testing?

by Tim Keller

Rimshot.gif On Sat, Sep 28, 2024 at 8:08 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: > >>>>> "Keith" == Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > >> Just making sure that people are getting my emails.. > > > Is there a reason to doubt it? You send two or three every month. > > But how many of you reply? Hmmm? > > > >> Patch your CUPS if you haven't already! > > > Why do you care if my BRA is torn? > > LOL!!!! > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Oct. 1, 2024

Re: Intersection of Open Source and Social Change

by Dennis Payne

I joined the preserve.games lemmy instance. Since it is distributed, I figured it didn't matter which site I was on and I liked the mission of preserve.games. I subscribed to two communities on lemmy.ml. Subscribe is still pending. One from ttrpg.network is also pending. It doesn't seem like I'm consistently seeing posts. I tried engaging for a while but it seemed like it wasn't worth the effort. Maybe it works better if you are on a major site. On Sat, 2024-09-28 at 09:27 -0400, Gregory Boyce via WLUG wrote: > Open Source software in general has facilitated a massive transfer of > wealth upwards over the past few decades. There are the tools and > their histories, and then there are how we want to use them moving > forward. > > We could certainly choose different software than Lemmy though. > > On Fri, Sep 27, 2024 at 4:40 PM Nick Krichevsky via WLUG > <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Lemmy is cool conceptually, but FYI, since you're thinking about > > social change, the maintainers of Lemmy are fascist-sympathisers > > ("tankies" is the term to Google for). > > _______________________________________________ > > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > > Change Settings: > > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > > Web Forum/Archive: > > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/PGMMM… > > > -- > Greg > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/FKJTO… -- Dennis Payne dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@dulsi

Sept. 30, 2024

Re: Testing?

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Keith" == Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> Just making sure that people are getting my emails.. > Is there a reason to doubt it? You send two or three every month. But how many of you reply? Hmmm? >> Patch your CUPS if you haven't already! > Why do you care if my BRA is torn? LOL!!!!

Sept. 29, 2024

Re: Intersection of Open Source and Social Change

by Gregory Boyce

Open Source software in general has facilitated a massive transfer of wealth upwards over the past few decades. There are the tools and their histories, and then there are how we want to use them moving forward. We could certainly choose different software than Lemmy though. On Fri, Sep 27, 2024 at 4:40 PM Nick Krichevsky via WLUG < wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Lemmy is cool conceptually, but FYI, since you're thinking about social > change, the maintainers of Lemmy are fascist-sympathisers ("tankies" is the > term to Google for). > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2024, 8:19 AM Gregory Boyce via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> Awesome. I'll have to try to make it to an upcoming event. >> >> I was thinking about setting up either a Matrix server for chat, or a >> Lemmy server for a reddit-like set of discussion forums. >> >> On Sun, Aug 11, 2024 at 7:48 PM Kevin Harrington < >> mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Count me in! I have been working on a book on the topic for a few years >>> on and off. Fyi just about every meeting of Robot Club turns into one of >>> those sort of discussions. We meet at technocopia Saturdays 1-4. >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2024, 7:34 PM Gregory Boyce via WLUG < >>> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hey folks, >>>> >>>> At dinner after the last meeting we had an interesting conversation >>>> around the intersection of software/technology and big picture social >>>> change. This has been an area of interest of mine for a while now, and I'd >>>> love to connect with other people who would be interested in talking about >>>> ways to make meaningful change. >>>> >>>> Would anyone be interested in joining a discussion on something like >>>> Discord, Slack, or maybe an open source alternative? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Greg Boyce >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>> Change Settings: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>> Web Forum/Archive: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BNJIS… >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> Greg >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ERVCY… >> > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/PGMMM… > -- Greg

Sept. 28, 2024

Re: Intersection of Open Source and Social Change

by Tim Keller

Greg, Sorry your reply took so long, for whatever reason the wlug mail server decided to hold the mail.. Thanks, Tim. On Fri, Sep 27, 2024 at 4:39 PM Nick Krichevsky via WLUG < wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Lemmy is cool conceptually, but FYI, since you're thinking about social > change, the maintainers of Lemmy are fascist-sympathisers ("tankies" is the > term to Google for). > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2024, 8:19 AM Gregory Boyce via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> Awesome. I'll have to try to make it to an upcoming event. >> >> I was thinking about setting up either a Matrix server for chat, or a >> Lemmy server for a reddit-like set of discussion forums. >> >> On Sun, Aug 11, 2024 at 7:48 PM Kevin Harrington < >> mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Count me in! I have been working on a book on the topic for a few years >>> on and off. Fyi just about every meeting of Robot Club turns into one of >>> those sort of discussions. We meet at technocopia Saturdays 1-4. >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2024, 7:34 PM Gregory Boyce via WLUG < >>> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hey folks, >>>> >>>> At dinner after the last meeting we had an interesting conversation >>>> around the intersection of software/technology and big picture social >>>> change. This has been an area of interest of mine for a while now, and I'd >>>> love to connect with other people who would be interested in talking about >>>> ways to make meaningful change. >>>> >>>> Would anyone be interested in joining a discussion on something like >>>> Discord, Slack, or maybe an open source alternative? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Greg Boyce >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>> Change Settings: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>> Web Forum/Archive: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BNJIS… >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> Greg >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ERVCY… >> > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/PGMMM… > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Sept. 28, 2024

Re: Testing?

by Keith Wright

Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> Patch your CUPS if you haven't already! > > Why do you care if my BRA is torn? Nick Krichevsky via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > the maintainers of Lemmy are fascist-sympathisers ("tankies" is > the term to Google for). Did that. Got the T-shirt. Now I understand: https://getsprints.com/collections/womens-tankie

Sept. 28, 2024

Re: Testing?

by Keith Wright

Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Just making sure that people are getting my emails.. Is there a reason to doubt it? You send two or three every month. > Patch your CUPS if you haven't already! Why do you care if my BRA is torn? -- Keith

Sept. 28, 2024

Re: Testing?

by hammerron

Loud and clear On September 27, 2024 4:35:40 PM EDT, Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >Just making sure that people are getting my emails.. > >Patch your CUPS if you haven't already! > >-- >I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >constituents as "consumers".

Sept. 28, 2024

Testing?

by Tim Keller

Just making sure that people are getting my emails.. Patch your CUPS if you haven't already! -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Sept. 27, 2024

Python with Braces

by John Stoffel

Python with Braces, my prayers have been answered! https://github.com/mathialo/bython

Sept. 24, 2024

Re: Ubuntu 24.04.1 annoyance (thunderbird)

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Kevin" == Kevin Stratton via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > I am porting my (limited) stuff to Ubuntu 24.0.1 You mean you're upgrading your system to Ubuntu 24.0.1 with 'do-release-upgrade'? > My ram had another failure and Ubuntu 22.04 entered into a state > where I could not install or uninstall any thing. I did different > things to repair this. I had no luck in fixing this. Post some errors, but I suspect you need to fix your apt package database. I usually use the CLI, so if you can open an xterm, it would be helpful to get the output of the following commands sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get dist-upgrade And if you get reports of problems, you might do: sudo apt-get install --fix-broken to see if that helps. > I decided to get thundebird Email working and I hit a suprise. So if you can't install packages, how did you get this installed? > I do not get a visible Thunderbird icon when I installed > thunderbird. It also seems to be already installed (In installed > the optional ëxtras¨when I installed Ubuntu). > I had to fix the desktop icon by commenting out NoDisplay=true in > a copy of the file thunderbird.desktop that I moved to > ~/local/share/applications. Funky... > I wonder if this is partly due to this being the type of application > that would be supported by the subscription service. Has nothing to do with subscription service, I just suspect you have an old old old install which needs to be cleaned up. As I recall, you were upgrading from ubuntu 18.04 right? So I suspect you might have some old packages installed which are holding you back. If you can, do: dpkg-query -l > /tmp/packages.txt and then email me or the list the file as an attachement. I can look it over and give you suggestions on what you maybe remove. Good luck! John

Sept. 23, 2024

Ubuntu 24.04.1 annoyance (thunderbird)

by Kevin Stratton

I am porting my (limited) stuff to Ubuntu 24.0.1 My ram had another failure and Ubuntu 22.04 entered into a state where I could not install or uninstall any thing. I did different things to repair this. I had no luck in fixing this. I decided to get thundebird Email working and I hit a suprise. I do not get a visible Thunderbird icon when I installed thunderbird. It also seems to be already installed (In installed the optional ëxtras¨when I installed Ubuntu). I had to fix the desktop icon by commenting out NoDisplay=true in a copy of the file thunderbird.desktop that I moved to ~/local/share/applications. I wonder if this is partly due to this being the type of application that would be supported by the subscription service.

Sept. 23, 2024

Re: old equipment - update

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Pete" == Pete Wason via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Hi, again -- Tried to make it to the last meeting but was abducted, again. Bummers, it was a good meeting! > Most of the old equipment I had at work is gone. I was told to clear > out the room and they found a STEM teacher at a local school who > took it. This is what's left: > (3) Dell PER805 2U rackmount servers (dual opteron) - w/ 1 set of > rails, several new 2.5" SAS spares How loud is this, and can you give more technical details? Speed, core count, memory, etc? > Dell PER415 1U rackmount server (opteron) - w/ separate H700 > HBA+cables, may have 8TB SATA HDD pulls installed (?) (I was unable > to figure out how to make this thing do RAID10; the adaptor itself > is worth something) Maybe, if you can get it to run in pass-thru mode without using the builtin PERC RAID controller. They're usually a pain, and I never trust them. > (3) Dell monitor stands w/o panels Can you give more details on this? Are these VESA mounts? I could use one at my local theatre to mount a monitor onto a wall/desk arm to make some space. I'm also happy to make a run to pickup stuff at pretty much any time. John

Sept. 22, 2024

oops, forgot these..

by Pete Wason

I also still have the two Celeros rackmount storage arrays, 32-bays each, one Xeon-based, the other Opteron-based, with rails. BO! Thx Pete

Sept. 21, 2024

old equipment - update

by Pete Wason

Hi, again -- Tried to make it to the last meeting but was abducted, again. Most of the old equipment I had at work is gone. I was told to clear out the room and they found a STEM teacher at a local school who took it. This is what's left: Synology RS2416+ rackmount NAS w/ (2) RX1217 expansion units, AC + SAS cables - (36) 3.5" bays total (3) Dell PER805 2U rackmount servers (dual opteron) - w/ 1 set of rails, several new 2.5" SAS spares Dell PER300 1U rackmount server (dual xeon) - w/ rails, and a bunch of 3.5" SAS HDDs (pulls and new) Dell PER415 1U rackmount server (opteron) - w/ separate H700 HBA+cables, may have 8TB SATA HDD pulls installed (?) (I was unable to figure out how to make this thing do RAID10; the adaptor itself is worth something) Various 3.5" HDD pulls of various brands and sizes from 250GB to 2TB (2) Dell docking stations with AC adaptors Dell dock/monitor stand w/ no display panel (3) Dell monitor stands w/o panels Best offer. Anything left by the end of the month will go to recycling. Pete

Sept. 20, 2024

Linux history timeline

by John Stoffel

In the vein of the past few meetings talks on history of Linux and Unix, I present this! https://www.levenez.com/unix/

Sept. 16, 2024

conserver

by John Stoffel

Guys, Patrick and I were talking serial ports for systems so you can access their console, and using Digi CM32 network serial concentrators to give access to multiple systems with telnet to specific ports. Then I mentioned an fantastic tool called 'conserver' which I use to manage a bunch of remote systems. Really works well. https://www.conserver.com/ So you do have to configure it (and I can help if you run into problems) but what is really gives you is the ability to do: console <name> and it will connect you to a console for a specific host. That can be a local serial port (which is where conserver started, using Cyclom-Y or -Z serial cards!), or an ipmi port, or a telnet connction to a remote port on a serial port concentrator, etc. So instead of having to memorize details, you just know names. And it offers loggins, access controls, multi-person access at the same time (one writer, many readers). It's not sexy, but when you need it, it really rocks. John

Sept. 14, 2024

Oops! The meeting is also virtual!!

by Tim Keller

The meeting will also be online at our usual Jitsi location! https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Sept. 11, 2024

Reminder! Meeting tomorrow Sept 12th, 2024!

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody, We've got a meeting tomorrow! Time: 7pm Date: September 12th, 2024 Physical Location: 44 Portland St, Worcester MA Topic(s): Last month we dove into the history of Linux distros. I thought this month we might talk a bit more about some more practical linux desktop stuff. How to install software, window managers, etc. Then I thought we might dive into filesystems with a foray into LVM. Afterwards we'll head out for dinner and keep up the conversation! Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Sept. 11, 2024

We've got a meeting next week!

by Tim Keller

It's been an exciting month in the FOSS world! YubiKey clone attacks, Ubuntu upgrade breakage! Microsoft has decided it's win 11 AI recall feature can't be removable.. I suspect lots of people are going to get real interested in linux.. bcachefs drama. If someone has a topic they've like to talk to about, let me know! Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Sept. 8, 2024

Everyone needs to watch this lecture

by John Stoffel

Guys, You should all spend some time to watch Captain (then) Grace Hopper's recently released levture. It's fantastic! https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/08/we-can-now-watch-grace-hoppers-fame…

Aug. 30, 2024

Re: Intersection of Open Source and Social Change

by Gregory Boyce

That sounds great, but I'm typically not available on Thursday evenings. I'll definitely keep it in mind for the rare occasions I am available. On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 9:26 AM Kevin Harrington <mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I would also like to invite yall to come to Open Hacks, technocopia's open > house night. We host an open house every Thursday night 7-9. WLUG is only > once a month, overlapping Open Hacks, but yall are welcome to come every > week to hang out and chat. > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2024, 7:45 PM Gregory Boyce <gregory.boyce(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 14, 2024, 12:47 PM Kevin Harrington <mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Odoo is very FOSS friendly: https://github.com/odoo/odoo >>> >>> I have been mulling over the problem posed by automation and software >>> participating in the labor market alongside people for quite a few >>> years now. I love hearing about localized solutions to problems. The >>> closer people are to the control of what they need to survive, the >>> better. >>> >> >> Definitely agreed. >> >> COVID really highlighted some problems with global economies. >> >> Along with the bigger issues we see with abundance, waste and poverty. >> We have more than enough, but would rather let resources go to waste than >> provide them to people who need them. >> >> >>> One of the ways to localize control are what David Graeber calls Debt >>> Loops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIINXhGDcs >>> >>> Thanks! I'm about 30 minutes in so far, and it's interesting. >> > -- Greg

Aug. 23, 2024

Re: Intersection of Open Source and Social Change

by Gregory Boyce

I see two approaches to the Capital problem. 1) Find ways to raise people up. 2) Find ways to bring institutions down. After all, they're working with our investments, our labor and our commerce. Institutions have been funding the commons through things like Open Source software, and we could leverage the same tools to build competition instead of collaborating. On Wed, Aug 21, 2024 at 10:07 AM Jansen Smith <Jansen(a)bstarengineering.com> wrote: > The mention of the phenomenology of increasing productivity being > accompanied by stagnant wages going back to the 90s reminds me of Thomas > Piketty's findings. Put simply, a wealth of economic data suggests that the > issue of increased productivity resulting in centralized wealth extraction > from communities to consolidated investment centers runs alongside > aggregate rates of return on capital outpacing aggregate growth rates of an > economy. This principle ALSO plays out on somewhat local levels (provinces, > municipalities), meaning that a vibrant community generating wealth > requires two things: > - open source and commons-managed productive capacity, for unfettered > productive growth > - limitations on investment capital, which can come in the form of > limitations on possible returns > > The question then becomes... How do we shove enough capital into the > commons to do wondrous things, without subjecting ourselves to the same > fiduciary responsibility traps that have destroyed like-minded well-meaning > endeavors? > Open source chains are a great start, but they do not themselves solve the > capital problem. Thoughts? > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2024, 7:46 PM Gregory Boyce via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 14, 2024, 12:47 PM Kevin Harrington <mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Odoo is very FOSS friendly: https://github.com/odoo/odoo >>> >>> I have been mulling over the problem posed by automation and software >>> participating in the labor market alongside people for quite a few >>> years now. I love hearing about localized solutions to problems. The >>> closer people are to the control of what they need to survive, the >>> better. >>> >> >> Definitely agreed. >> >> COVID really highlighted some problems with global economies. >> >> Along with the bigger issues we see with abundance, waste and poverty. >> We have more than enough, but would rather let resources go to waste than >> provide them to people who need them. >> >> >>> One of the ways to localize control are what David Graeber calls Debt >>> Loops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIINXhGDcs >>> >>> Thanks! I'm about 30 minutes in so far, and it's interesting. >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/EGNHI… >> > -- Greg

Aug. 23, 2024

Re: Intersection of Open Source and Social Change

by Jansen Smith

The mention of the phenomenology of increasing productivity being accompanied by stagnant wages going back to the 90s reminds me of Thomas Piketty's findings. Put simply, a wealth of economic data suggests that the issue of increased productivity resulting in centralized wealth extraction from communities to consolidated investment centers runs alongside aggregate rates of return on capital outpacing aggregate growth rates of an economy. This principle ALSO plays out on somewhat local levels (provinces, municipalities), meaning that a vibrant community generating wealth requires two things: - open source and commons-managed productive capacity, for unfettered productive growth - limitations on investment capital, which can come in the form of limitations on possible returns The question then becomes... How do we shove enough capital into the commons to do wondrous things, without subjecting ourselves to the same fiduciary responsibility traps that have destroyed like-minded well-meaning endeavors? Open source chains are a great start, but they do not themselves solve the capital problem. Thoughts? On Wed, Aug 14, 2024, 7:46 PM Gregory Boyce via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2024, 12:47 PM Kevin Harrington <mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Odoo is very FOSS friendly: https://github.com/odoo/odoo >> >> I have been mulling over the problem posed by automation and software >> participating in the labor market alongside people for quite a few >> years now. I love hearing about localized solutions to problems. The >> closer people are to the control of what they need to survive, the >> better. >> > > Definitely agreed. > > COVID really highlighted some problems with global economies. > > Along with the bigger issues we see with abundance, waste and poverty. We > have more than enough, but would rather let resources go to waste than > provide them to people who need them. > > >> One of the ways to localize control are what David Graeber calls Debt >> Loops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIINXhGDcs >> >> Thanks! I'm about 30 minutes in so far, and it's interesting. > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/EGNHI… >

Aug. 21, 2024

Re: Intersection of Open Source and Social Change

by Kevin Harrington

I would also like to invite yall to come to Open Hacks, technocopia's open house night. We host an open house every Thursday night 7-9. WLUG is only once a month, overlapping Open Hacks, but yall are welcome to come every week to hang out and chat. On Wed, Aug 14, 2024, 7:45 PM Gregory Boyce <gregory.boyce(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2024, 12:47 PM Kevin Harrington <mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Odoo is very FOSS friendly: https://github.com/odoo/odoo >> >> I have been mulling over the problem posed by automation and software >> participating in the labor market alongside people for quite a few >> years now. I love hearing about localized solutions to problems. The >> closer people are to the control of what they need to survive, the >> better. >> > > Definitely agreed. > > COVID really highlighted some problems with global economies. > > Along with the bigger issues we see with abundance, waste and poverty. We > have more than enough, but would rather let resources go to waste than > provide them to people who need them. > > >> One of the ways to localize control are what David Graeber calls Debt >> Loops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIINXhGDcs >> >> Thanks! I'm about 30 minutes in so far, and it's interesting. >

Aug. 15, 2024

Re: Intersection of Open Source and Social Change

by Gregory Boyce

On Wed, Aug 14, 2024, 12:47 PM Kevin Harrington <mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Odoo is very FOSS friendly: https://github.com/odoo/odoo > > I have been mulling over the problem posed by automation and software > participating in the labor market alongside people for quite a few > years now. I love hearing about localized solutions to problems. The > closer people are to the control of what they need to survive, the > better. > Definitely agreed. COVID really highlighted some problems with global economies. Along with the bigger issues we see with abundance, waste and poverty. We have more than enough, but would rather let resources go to waste than provide them to people who need them. > One of the ways to localize control are what David Graeber calls Debt > Loops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIINXhGDcs > > Thanks! I'm about 30 minutes in so far, and it's interesting.

Aug. 14, 2024

Re: Intersection of Open Source and Social Change

by Gregory Boyce

I don't think it's a tangent at all. Just another piece of a bigger picture. Replicate all the pieces of an economy to be managed locally. Job/gig boards, stores, delivery (door dash style), transaction processing, etc. A relatively small local company can manage it using open source tools, and then other communities can use the same tools following their lead. Local economies can scale better, and can help rebuild community. On Wed, Aug 14, 2024, 11:27 AM Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote: > This is a tangent, but on the same vein. > > I find myself with my wife and kids at lots of craft fairs, etc. In all > cases, the conversation goes something like: > > "Oh, those earrings.. $12.50 with a card, $10 with cash." I know in all > those cases, it's a situation where they're getting boned by a company like > Toast or one of these other middleman transaction processors. > > I think it would be cool if there was a more local option, but offered the > same level of ease of use that [insert POS system] I see things like odoo > out there, but I don't know how FOSS friendly they are. > > Tim. > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 9:06 PM Gregory Boyce via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >> For the last 5 years or so, I"ve been putting a lot of thought into what >> I would like the tech industry to look like in the future, and what steps >> we could take in order to achieve it. >> >> What I see is locally managed tech infrastructure focused on local >> communities. Communities can share the same open source tools instead of >> depending on large centralized platforms. This would mean that the people >> who make the decisions about how online commerce operates in the area could >> actually be close to the users and acting on their best interests. >> >> I see this looking like community sales platforms connecting people to >> the local stores, various Fediverse compatible platforms for Social Media, >> video sharing, chat systems, and jobs boards. >> >> Each service is an opportunity to help people pay each other instead of >> sending money out of the community. >> >> The services could be hosted on existing cloud platforms, but I've been >> looking at building community clouds, hopefully partnered with municipal >> fiber. >> >> To me, it's more about a philosophical shift around the motivations of >> developers more than anything, but I'd love to meet with people who'd like >> to help build a proof of concept. >> >> On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 6:14 PM Mike kantrowitz < >> mike.kantrowitz01(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Sorry I couldn't join for dinner after the last meeting. Sounds like it >>> was a good conversation. >>> I'm definitely interested in further conversation about tech and social >>> change. >>> >>> /mike >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 2:55 PM John Stoffel via WLUG < >>> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>> "Gregory" == Gregory Boyce via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >>>> >>>> > Awesome. I'll have to try to make it to an upcoming event. >>>> >>>> And we will be sure to publicize this on the wlug.org web site as >>>> well. >>>> >>>> > I was thinking about setting up either a Matrix server for chat, or >>>> > a Lemmy server for a reddit-like set of discussion forums. >>>> >>>> Would the chats be logged for later viewing? I'm not familiar with >>>> either setup. I honestly prefer email lists, but that's because I >>>> find interacting in a web browser for forums to be a pain in the rear >>>> because I have to use the mouse for some much, which just slows me >>>> down. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > On Sun, Aug 11, 2024 at 7:48 PM Kevin Harrington < >>>> mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> > Count me in! I have been working on a book on the topic for a few >>>> years on and off. Fyi just >>>> > about every meeting of Robot Club turns into one of those sort of >>>> discussions. We meet at >>>> > technocopia Saturdays 1-4. >>>> >>>> > On Sun, Aug 11, 2024, 7:34 PM Gregory Boyce via WLUG < >>>> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> > Hey folks, >>>> >>>> > At dinner after the last meeting we had an interesting >>>> conversation around the >>>> > intersection of software/technology and big picture social >>>> change. This has been an area >>>> > of interest of mine for a while now, and I'd love to connect >>>> with other people who would >>>> > be interested in talking about ways to make meaningful change. >>>> >>>> > Would anyone be interested in joining a discussion on >>>> something like Discord, Slack, or >>>> > maybe an open source alternative? >>>> >>>> > -- >>>> > Greg Boyce >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>> > Change Settings: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>> > Web Forum/Archive: >>>> > >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BNJIS… >>>> >>>> > -- >>>> > Greg >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>> > Change Settings: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>> > Web Forum/Archive: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ERVCY… >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>> Change Settings: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>> Web Forum/Archive: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/NYRKA… >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> Greg >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DHWFA… >> > > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". >

Aug. 14, 2024

Re: Intersection of Open Source and Social Change

by Kevin Harrington

Odoo is very FOSS friendly: https://github.com/odoo/odoo I have been mulling over the problem posed by automation and software participating in the labor market alongside people for quite a few years now. I love hearing about localized solutions to problems. The closer people are to the control of what they need to survive, the better. One of the ways to localize control are what David Graeber calls Debt Loops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIINXhGDcs Since reading the book hes talking about in the lecture, I have been mulling over how one might make a digital version of gift-economies/debt-loop/auto-jubilee networks. One of the corrosive aspects of markets is the spot transaction. It anonymizes money (something that represents the labor of others owed to you the holder) and encourages us to dehumanize each other into economic means to our ends. Gift loops make each transaction explicitly a public act, and in doing so makes sure that we are confronted with our interdependence on a regular basis. Economically gift economies have the advantage of moving the issuer of credit and debt from a central bank, into the hands of individuals making the decision to trust other individuals and the debt loop system. Those with the ability to express trust in others, and when that trust is reciprocated, then that is the wealth creation engine. When any debt is paid forward until it reaches back to the issuer, the loop is canceled, and all the obligations are unzipped. Therefore one person initiating trust can cancel N nodes in a loop, effectively unlimited. Since it is also fully public, cheating means cheating in public. Beyond the exchange of labor in money or debt interactions, we have a deeper problem of the displacement of the labor market by automation. Beyond the economic arguments, there is a philosophical problem with selling a non-rivalrous commodity and failing to create in the market the demand for said commodity through wage creation. The expected effect of this process would be rising productivity, with stagnant wages as the few jobs remaining are competed for by an ever increasing reserve army of the unemployed. Turns out you can see that in the data as early as the mid 90's. I attached an article I am working on to outline this problem, if you are interested in reading more. On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 11:27 AM Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > This is a tangent, but on the same vein. > > I find myself with my wife and kids at lots of craft fairs, etc. In all cases, the conversation goes something like: > > "Oh, those earrings.. $12.50 with a card, $10 with cash." I know in all those cases, it's a situation where they're getting boned by a company like Toast or one of these other middleman transaction processors. > > I think it would be cool if there was a more local option, but offered the same level of ease of use that [insert POS system] I see things like odoo out there, but I don't know how FOSS friendly they are. > > Tim. > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 9:06 PM Gregory Boyce via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >> >> For the last 5 years or so, I"ve been putting a lot of thought into what I would like the tech industry to look like in the future, and what steps we could take in order to achieve it. >> >> What I see is locally managed tech infrastructure focused on local communities. Communities can share the same open source tools instead of depending on large centralized platforms. This would mean that the people who make the decisions about how online commerce operates in the area could actually be close to the users and acting on their best interests. >> >> I see this looking like community sales platforms connecting people to the local stores, various Fediverse compatible platforms for Social Media, video sharing, chat systems, and jobs boards. >> >> Each service is an opportunity to help people pay each other instead of sending money out of the community. >> >> The services could be hosted on existing cloud platforms, but I've been looking at building community clouds, hopefully partnered with municipal fiber. >> >> To me, it's more about a philosophical shift around the motivations of developers more than anything, but I'd love to meet with people who'd like to help build a proof of concept. >> >> On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 6:14 PM Mike kantrowitz <mike.kantrowitz01(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Sorry I couldn't join for dinner after the last meeting. Sounds like it was a good conversation. >>> I'm definitely interested in further conversation about tech and social change. >>> >>> /mike >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 2:55 PM John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> "Gregory" == Gregory Boyce via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >>>> >>>> > Awesome. I'll have to try to make it to an upcoming event. >>>> >>>> And we will be sure to publicize this on the wlug.org web site as >>>> well. >>>> >>>> > I was thinking about setting up either a Matrix server for chat, or >>>> > a Lemmy server for a reddit-like set of discussion forums. >>>> >>>> Would the chats be logged for later viewing? I'm not familiar with >>>> either setup. I honestly prefer email lists, but that's because I >>>> find interacting in a web browser for forums to be a pain in the rear >>>> because I have to use the mouse for some much, which just slows me >>>> down. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > On Sun, Aug 11, 2024 at 7:48 PM Kevin Harrington <mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> > Count me in! I have been working on a book on the topic for a few years on and off. Fyi just >>>> > about every meeting of Robot Club turns into one of those sort of discussions. We meet at >>>> > technocopia Saturdays 1-4. >>>> >>>> > On Sun, Aug 11, 2024, 7:34 PM Gregory Boyce via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> > Hey folks, >>>> >>>> > At dinner after the last meeting we had an interesting conversation around the >>>> > intersection of software/technology and big picture social change. This has been an area >>>> > of interest of mine for a while now, and I'd love to connect with other people who would >>>> > be interested in talking about ways to make meaningful change. >>>> >>>> > Would anyone be interested in joining a discussion on something like Discord, Slack, or >>>> > maybe an open source alternative? >>>> >>>> > -- >>>> > Greg Boyce >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>> > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>> > Web Forum/Archive: >>>> > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BNJIS… >>>> >>>> > -- >>>> > Greg >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>> > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>> > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ERVCY… >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>> Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/NYRKA… >> >> >> >> -- >> Greg >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DHWFA… > > > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Aug. 14, 2024

Re: Intersection of Open Source and Social Change

by Tim Keller

This is a tangent, but on the same vein. I find myself with my wife and kids at lots of craft fairs, etc. In all cases, the conversation goes something like: "Oh, those earrings.. $12.50 with a card, $10 with cash." I know in all those cases, it's a situation where they're getting boned by a company like Toast or one of these other middleman transaction processors. I think it would be cool if there was a more local option, but offered the same level of ease of use that [insert POS system] I see things like odoo out there, but I don't know how FOSS friendly they are. Tim. On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 9:06 PM Gregory Boyce via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > For the last 5 years or so, I"ve been putting a lot of thought into what I > would like the tech industry to look like in the future, and what steps we > could take in order to achieve it. > > What I see is locally managed tech infrastructure focused on local > communities. Communities can share the same open source tools instead of > depending on large centralized platforms. This would mean that the people > who make the decisions about how online commerce operates in the area could > actually be close to the users and acting on their best interests. > > I see this looking like community sales platforms connecting people to the > local stores, various Fediverse compatible platforms for Social Media, > video sharing, chat systems, and jobs boards. > > Each service is an opportunity to help people pay each other instead of > sending money out of the community. > > The services could be hosted on existing cloud platforms, but I've been > looking at building community clouds, hopefully partnered with municipal > fiber. > > To me, it's more about a philosophical shift around the motivations of > developers more than anything, but I'd love to meet with people who'd like > to help build a proof of concept. > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 6:14 PM Mike kantrowitz < > mike.kantrowitz01(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Sorry I couldn't join for dinner after the last meeting. Sounds like it >> was a good conversation. >> I'm definitely interested in further conversation about tech and social >> change. >> >> /mike >> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 2:55 PM John Stoffel via WLUG < >> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >> >>> >>>>> "Gregory" == Gregory Boyce via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >>> >>> > Awesome. I'll have to try to make it to an upcoming event. >>> >>> And we will be sure to publicize this on the wlug.org web site as >>> well. >>> >>> > I was thinking about setting up either a Matrix server for chat, or >>> > a Lemmy server for a reddit-like set of discussion forums. >>> >>> Would the chats be logged for later viewing? I'm not familiar with >>> either setup. I honestly prefer email lists, but that's because I >>> find interacting in a web browser for forums to be a pain in the rear >>> because I have to use the mouse for some much, which just slows me >>> down. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > On Sun, Aug 11, 2024 at 7:48 PM Kevin Harrington < >>> mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> > Count me in! I have been working on a book on the topic for a few >>> years on and off. Fyi just >>> > about every meeting of Robot Club turns into one of those sort of >>> discussions. We meet at >>> > technocopia Saturdays 1-4. >>> >>> > On Sun, Aug 11, 2024, 7:34 PM Gregory Boyce via WLUG < >>> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >>> >>> > Hey folks, >>> >>> > At dinner after the last meeting we had an interesting >>> conversation around the >>> > intersection of software/technology and big picture social >>> change. This has been an area >>> > of interest of mine for a while now, and I'd love to connect >>> with other people who would >>> > be interested in talking about ways to make meaningful change. >>> >>> > Would anyone be interested in joining a discussion on >>> something like Discord, Slack, or >>> > maybe an open source alternative? >>> >>> > -- >>> > Greg Boyce >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> > Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> > Web Forum/Archive: >>> > >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BNJIS… >>> >>> > -- >>> > Greg >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> > Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> > Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ERVCY… >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/NYRKA… >>> >> > > -- > Greg > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DHWFA… > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Aug. 14, 2024

Re: Intersection of Open Source and Social Change

by Gregory Boyce

For the last 5 years or so, I"ve been putting a lot of thought into what I would like the tech industry to look like in the future, and what steps we could take in order to achieve it. What I see is locally managed tech infrastructure focused on local communities. Communities can share the same open source tools instead of depending on large centralized platforms. This would mean that the people who make the decisions about how online commerce operates in the area could actually be close to the users and acting on their best interests. I see this looking like community sales platforms connecting people to the local stores, various Fediverse compatible platforms for Social Media, video sharing, chat systems, and jobs boards. Each service is an opportunity to help people pay each other instead of sending money out of the community. The services could be hosted on existing cloud platforms, but I've been looking at building community clouds, hopefully partnered with municipal fiber. To me, it's more about a philosophical shift around the motivations of developers more than anything, but I'd love to meet with people who'd like to help build a proof of concept. On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 6:14 PM Mike kantrowitz <mike.kantrowitz01(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Sorry I couldn't join for dinner after the last meeting. Sounds like it > was a good conversation. > I'm definitely interested in further conversation about tech and social > change. > > /mike > > > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 2:55 PM John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> >>>>> "Gregory" == Gregory Boyce via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> >> > Awesome. I'll have to try to make it to an upcoming event. >> >> And we will be sure to publicize this on the wlug.org web site as >> well. >> >> > I was thinking about setting up either a Matrix server for chat, or >> > a Lemmy server for a reddit-like set of discussion forums. >> >> Would the chats be logged for later viewing? I'm not familiar with >> either setup. I honestly prefer email lists, but that's because I >> find interacting in a web browser for forums to be a pain in the rear >> because I have to use the mouse for some much, which just slows me >> down. >> >> >> >> >> > On Sun, Aug 11, 2024 at 7:48 PM Kevin Harrington < >> mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Count me in! I have been working on a book on the topic for a few >> years on and off. Fyi just >> > about every meeting of Robot Club turns into one of those sort of >> discussions. We meet at >> > technocopia Saturdays 1-4. >> >> > On Sun, Aug 11, 2024, 7:34 PM Gregory Boyce via WLUG < >> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >> >> > Hey folks, >> >> > At dinner after the last meeting we had an interesting >> conversation around the >> > intersection of software/technology and big picture social >> change. This has been an area >> > of interest of mine for a while now, and I'd love to connect >> with other people who would >> > be interested in talking about ways to make meaningful change. >> >> > Would anyone be interested in joining a discussion on something >> like Discord, Slack, or >> > maybe an open source alternative? >> >> > -- >> > Greg Boyce >> > _______________________________________________ >> > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> > Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> > Web Forum/Archive: >> > >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BNJIS… >> >> > -- >> > Greg >> > _______________________________________________ >> > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> > Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> > Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ERVCY… >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/NYRKA… >> > -- Greg

Aug. 14, 2024

Re: Intersection of Open Source and Social Change

by Mike kantrowitz

Sorry I couldn't join for dinner after the last meeting. Sounds like it was a good conversation. I'm definitely interested in further conversation about tech and social change. /mike On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 2:55 PM John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >>>>> "Gregory" == Gregory Boyce via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > Awesome. I'll have to try to make it to an upcoming event. > > And we will be sure to publicize this on the wlug.org web site as > well. > > > I was thinking about setting up either a Matrix server for chat, or > > a Lemmy server for a reddit-like set of discussion forums. > > Would the chats be logged for later viewing? I'm not familiar with > either setup. I honestly prefer email lists, but that's because I > find interacting in a web browser for forums to be a pain in the rear > because I have to use the mouse for some much, which just slows me > down. > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 11, 2024 at 7:48 PM Kevin Harrington < > mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Count me in! I have been working on a book on the topic for a few > years on and off. Fyi just > > about every meeting of Robot Club turns into one of those sort of > discussions. We meet at > > technocopia Saturdays 1-4. > > > On Sun, Aug 11, 2024, 7:34 PM Gregory Boyce via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > > Hey folks, > > > At dinner after the last meeting we had an interesting > conversation around the > > intersection of software/technology and big picture social > change. This has been an area > > of interest of mine for a while now, and I'd love to connect > with other people who would > > be interested in talking about ways to make meaningful change. > > > Would anyone be interested in joining a discussion on something > like Discord, Slack, or > > maybe an open source alternative? > > > -- > > Greg Boyce > > _______________________________________________ > > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > > Web Forum/Archive: > > > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BNJIS… > > > -- > > Greg > > _______________________________________________ > > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ERVCY… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/NYRKA… >

Aug. 12, 2024

Re: Intersection of Open Source and Social Change

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Gregory" == Gregory Boyce via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Awesome. I'll have to try to make it to an upcoming event. And we will be sure to publicize this on the wlug.org web site as well. > I was thinking about setting up either a Matrix server for chat, or > a Lemmy server for a reddit-like set of discussion forums. Would the chats be logged for later viewing? I'm not familiar with either setup. I honestly prefer email lists, but that's because I find interacting in a web browser for forums to be a pain in the rear because I have to use the mouse for some much, which just slows me down. > On Sun, Aug 11, 2024 at 7:48 PM Kevin Harrington <mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Count me in! I have been working on a book on the topic for a few years on and off. Fyi just > about every meeting of Robot Club turns into one of those sort of discussions. We meet at > technocopia Saturdays 1-4. > On Sun, Aug 11, 2024, 7:34 PM Gregory Boyce via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey folks, > At dinner after the last meeting we had an interesting conversation around the > intersection of software/technology and big picture social change. This has been an area > of interest of mine for a while now, and I'd love to connect with other people who would > be interested in talking about ways to make meaningful change. > Would anyone be interested in joining a discussion on something like Discord, Slack, or > maybe an open source alternative? > -- > Greg Boyce > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BNJIS… > -- > Greg > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ERVCY…

Aug. 12, 2024

Re: Intersection of Open Source and Social Change

by Nick Krichevsky

Lemmy is cool conceptually, but FYI, since you're thinking about social change, the maintainers of Lemmy are fascist-sympathisers ("tankies" is the term to Google for). On Mon, Aug 12, 2024, 8:19 AM Gregory Boyce via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Awesome. I'll have to try to make it to an upcoming event. > > I was thinking about setting up either a Matrix server for chat, or a > Lemmy server for a reddit-like set of discussion forums. > > On Sun, Aug 11, 2024 at 7:48 PM Kevin Harrington <mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Count me in! I have been working on a book on the topic for a few years >> on and off. Fyi just about every meeting of Robot Club turns into one of >> those sort of discussions. We meet at technocopia Saturdays 1-4. >> >> On Sun, Aug 11, 2024, 7:34 PM Gregory Boyce via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Hey folks, >>> >>> At dinner after the last meeting we had an interesting conversation >>> around the intersection of software/technology and big picture social >>> change. This has been an area of interest of mine for a while now, and I'd >>> love to connect with other people who would be interested in talking about >>> ways to make meaningful change. >>> >>> Would anyone be interested in joining a discussion on something like >>> Discord, Slack, or maybe an open source alternative? >>> >>> -- >>> Greg Boyce >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BNJIS… >>> >> > > -- > Greg > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ERVCY… >

Aug. 12, 2024

Re: Intersection of Open Source and Social Change

by Gregory Boyce

Awesome. I'll have to try to make it to an upcoming event. I was thinking about setting up either a Matrix server for chat, or a Lemmy server for a reddit-like set of discussion forums. On Sun, Aug 11, 2024 at 7:48 PM Kevin Harrington <mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Count me in! I have been working on a book on the topic for a few years on > and off. Fyi just about every meeting of Robot Club turns into one of those > sort of discussions. We meet at technocopia Saturdays 1-4. > > On Sun, Aug 11, 2024, 7:34 PM Gregory Boyce via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> Hey folks, >> >> At dinner after the last meeting we had an interesting conversation >> around the intersection of software/technology and big picture social >> change. This has been an area of interest of mine for a while now, and I'd >> love to connect with other people who would be interested in talking about >> ways to make meaningful change. >> >> Would anyone be interested in joining a discussion on something like >> Discord, Slack, or maybe an open source alternative? >> >> -- >> Greg Boyce >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BNJIS… >> > -- Greg

Aug. 12, 2024

Re: Intersection of Open Source and Social Change

by Kevin Harrington

Count me in! I have been working on a book on the topic for a few years on and off. Fyi just about every meeting of Robot Club turns into one of those sort of discussions. We meet at technocopia Saturdays 1-4. On Sun, Aug 11, 2024, 7:34 PM Gregory Boyce via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey folks, > > At dinner after the last meeting we had an interesting conversation around > the intersection of software/technology and big picture social change. > This has been an area of interest of mine for a while now, and I'd love to > connect with other people who would be interested in talking about ways to > make meaningful change. > > Would anyone be interested in joining a discussion on something like > Discord, Slack, or maybe an open source alternative? > > -- > Greg Boyce > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BNJIS… >

Aug. 11, 2024

Intersection of Open Source and Social Change

by Gregory Boyce

Hey folks, At dinner after the last meeting we had an interesting conversation around the intersection of software/technology and big picture social change. This has been an area of interest of mine for a while now, and I'd love to connect with other people who would be interested in talking about ways to make meaningful change. Would anyone be interested in joining a discussion on something like Discord, Slack, or maybe an open source alternative? -- Greg Boyce

Aug. 11, 2024

Re: I put the slides I'm working on out where people can find them!

by Jansen Smith

I'm still in recovery, sorry. So Kala & I spent the night cloistered, painting minis and doing self-care. Reviewing this slide deck, and this is phenomenal stuff. It can sometimes be demoralizing, forgetting that we're not alone, freaking out and raising alarm bells at the technofeudal rent-seeking... Thank you, Tim, for reminding me again that I'm not alone. https://github.com/FabioLolix/LinuxTimeline/releases is a fun resource; thanks for the link! I'm surprised by how many are still notionally supported. On Wed, Aug 7, 2024 at 11:46 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > https://github.com/turbofx/tao_of_linux > > Thanks, > Tim. > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/PMDJ4… >

Aug. 9, 2024

Re: Meeting tomorrow!! Topic: The tao of linux.

by Jon "maddog" Hall

Sounds like a great meeting, especially for "newbies". Unfortunately I have a dinner theater engagement at that time, so have fun! md On Wed, Aug 7, 2024 at 11:38 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey Everybody! > > Date: August 8th @ 7PM > Location: Techncopia, 44 Portland st. Worcester MA > Virtual location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > > We've got a meeting tomorrow! I'm planning on giving a short talk on the > history of linux, how we got here, where are we going, why it matters and > delve into some unix history and philosophy.. i.e. "everything is (mosly) a > file.. no really.." > > I fully expect all the usual suspects will also have interesting tidbits > to add, corrections to make and generally it should be an interesting talk > to help people new to the FOSS world and in particular the linux world why > we love linux and why we think it's great. > > As usual we'll head off for dinner afterwards and keep the conversation > going! > > I hope to see you there! > Tim. > > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/XJTBR… >

Aug. 8, 2024

I put the slides I'm working on out where people can find them!

by Tim Keller

https://github.com/turbofx/tao_of_linux Thanks, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Aug. 8, 2024

Re: We've got meeting on the 8th of August!

by Tim Keller

Pulls out a walker.. Why, when I was just a wee linux lad, installing linux was an huge pain in the ass.. not like these days when you can just boot from an ISO.. from a usb stick.. you needed three floppies and a zip drive!! Then you'd accidentally "dd" your hardrive (hd0) trying to create a floppy image so you could install the ppp program!! These days installing linux is far easier than it ever was, but there's still interesting corner cases and odd devices that getting linux installed on them can be tricky. Tim. On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 11:52 AM William Grenache via WLUG < wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I learn just from being on this thread but knowing the *why *from an > install party would be fantastic. > > > > On Tuesday, August 6, 2024 at 09:31:01 AM EDT, Kevin Harrington via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > > We haven't run an "Install-fest" in years, maybe plan a regular install > Linux party? > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2024, 8:17 AM hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > > Hi Tim, > > Sorry for the late reply. To comment about a "back to basics" meeting. I > think that is a terrific idea. I would go further to say not just one, but > from time to time having more of them again also, or maybe a small portion > of some meetings. It might welcome in a wider range of members to WLUG. > > Ron > On 7/29/24 09:51, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: > > Hey Everybody! We've got a meeting and a topic idea! > > We've got a meeting on the 8th! > > During the last couple of meetings, we've had a couple of new users come > by and it was clear to me that we were going into the higher level linux > concepts, many of which were flying over their heads. > > I was thinking it might be really good to have a back to basics wlug > meeting, where we get in get into unix philosophy, what a distro is, what > parts make up a distro, common things people deal with, etc. Yeah, nah? > > I'm also trying to turn a page here and start the conversation about the > meeting more than say.. 2 days before the meeting so the meetings can > continue to have their ruckus nature, but actually have some bit of > structure! > > Thanks, > Tim. > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ACOXX… > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/6IRRM… > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/NTWLY… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/XZRF7… > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Aug. 8, 2024

Meeting tomorrow!! Topic: The tao of linux.

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody! Date: August 8th @ 7PM Location: Techncopia, 44 Portland st. Worcester MA Virtual location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA We've got a meeting tomorrow! I'm planning on giving a short talk on the history of linux, how we got here, where are we going, why it matters and delve into some unix history and philosophy.. i.e. "everything is (mosly) a file.. no really.." I fully expect all the usual suspects will also have interesting tidbits to add, corrections to make and generally it should be an interesting talk to help people new to the FOSS world and in particular the linux world why we love linux and why we think it's great. As usual we'll head off for dinner afterwards and keep the conversation going! I hope to see you there! Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Aug. 8, 2024

Re: We've got meeting on the 8th of August!

by William Grenache

I learn just from being on this thread but knowing the why from an install party would be fantastic. On Tuesday, August 6, 2024 at 09:31:01 AM EDT, Kevin Harrington via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: We haven't run an "Install-fest" in years, maybe plan a regular install Linux party? On Tue, Aug 6, 2024, 8:17 AM hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: Hi Tim, Sorry for the late reply. To comment about a "back to basics" meeting. I think that is a terrific idea. I would go further to say not just one, but from time to time having more of them again also, or maybe a small portion of some meetings. It might welcome in a wider range of members to WLUG. Ron On 7/29/24 09:51, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: Hey Everybody! We've got a meeting and a topic idea! We've got a meeting on the 8th! During the last couple of meetings, we've had a couple of new users come by and it was clear to me that we were going into the higher level linux concepts, many of which were flying over their heads. I was thinking it might be really good to have a back to basics wlug meeting, where we get in get into unix philosophy, what a distro is, what parts make up a distro, common things people deal with, etc. Yeah, nah? I'm also trying to turn a page here and start the conversation about the meeting more than say.. 2 days before the meeting so the meetings can continue to have their ruckus nature, but actually have some bit of structure! Thanks, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers". _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ACOXX… _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/6IRRM… _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/NTWLY…

Aug. 6, 2024

Re: We've got meeting on the 8th of August!

by Kevin Harrington

We haven't run an "Install-fest" in years, maybe plan a regular install Linux party? On Tue, Aug 6, 2024, 8:17 AM hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hi Tim, > > Sorry for the late reply. To comment about a "back to basics" meeting. I > think that is a terrific idea. I would go further to say not just one, but > from time to time having more of them again also, or maybe a small portion > of some meetings. It might welcome in a wider range of members to WLUG. > > Ron > On 7/29/24 09:51, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: > > Hey Everybody! We've got a meeting and a topic idea! > > We've got a meeting on the 8th! > > During the last couple of meetings, we've had a couple of new users come > by and it was clear to me that we were going into the higher level linux > concepts, many of which were flying over their heads. > > I was thinking it might be really good to have a back to basics wlug > meeting, where we get in get into unix philosophy, what a distro is, what > parts make up a distro, common things people deal with, etc. Yeah, nah? > > I'm also trying to turn a page here and start the conversation about the > meeting more than say.. 2 days before the meeting so the meetings can > continue to have their ruckus nature, but actually have some bit of > structure! > > Thanks, > Tim. > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ACOXX… > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/6IRRM… >

Aug. 6, 2024

Re: We've got meeting on the 8th of August!

by hammerron

Hi Tim, Sorry for the late reply. To comment about a "back to basics" meeting. I think that is a terrific idea. I would go further to say not just one, but from time to time having more of them again also, or maybe a small portion of some meetings. It might welcome in a wider range of members to WLUG. Ron On 7/29/24 09:51, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: > Hey Everybody! We've got a meeting and a topic idea! > > We've got a meeting on the 8th! > > During the last couple of meetings, we've had a couple of new users > come by and it was clear to me that we were going into the higher > level linux concepts, many of which were flying over their heads. > > I was thinking it might be really good to have a back to basics wlug > meeting, where we get in get into unix philosophy, what a distro is, > what parts make up a distro, common things people deal with, etc. > Yeah, nah? > > I'm also trying to turn a page here and start the conversation about > the meeting more than say.. 2 days before the meeting so the meetings > can continue to have their ruckus nature, but actually have some bit > of structure! > > Thanks, > Tim. > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list --wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email towlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account:https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings:https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive:https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org…

Aug. 6, 2024

Re: Looking for advice for home server

by Jon "maddog" Hall

Kevin, You might want to take a look at the Freedombox.org software: https://freedombox.org Run your digital services from your home > FreedomBox is a private server for non-experts: it lets you install and > configure server applications with only a few clicks. It runs on cheap > hardware of your choice, uses your internet connection and power, and is > under your control. It has a front panel and was designed for people who are running a home server and are not super-admins, although I do not think that it is "Mom&Pop(TM)" ready either. There is a lot of functionality there.....you do not have to set up everything all at once. 99% of the software has been incorporated into Debian 11 and Debian 12, and therefore runs on a variety of hardware platforms, everything from an old laptop to a Raspberry Pi 5 (which can go up to 8 GB of RAM for 80 USD). The RPi 5 has a PCI-e bus built in and there are "Hats" that allow you to add two M.2 solid state memory cards to set up RAID. The 1 Gbps ethernet connection would probably give you all the throughput you need. md On Sat, Aug 3, 2024 at 4:10 PM Kevin Stratton via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I am looking for a cheap solution for the following: > > 1) Email server/redireector. I want to have a full custom domain and > email addre0ss. > > 2) FTP server on the same domain as the email server. > > 3) GUI setup preferred, I do not want to invest the time (right now) to > get this working as a 'ground up' > > project. > > 4) Total bandwidth needs should be negligible. > > > How would you approach this? > > At a very high level, I am considering: > > 1) Dedicating a DDR3 (RAM) era Intel I3 P.C. (sorry, I don not know the > generation) and installing NAS software with the appropriate docker > plugins, if they exist. I do not know if this is even reasonable. > Suggestions are appreciated. I am using a home ISP account. I am aware > of DynDNS type services to get around the lack of a static IP. I do not > currently plan on using this device as an actual NAS due to security > concerns. If necessary, I will use sneaker-net to transfer data, > although I am thinking about ssh or even RS232. > > 2) Renting out space on a service like Amazon Web services. Maybe they > have an image that is already what I want. > > Any ideas/thoughts/experiences would be appreciated. I hope to be at > the meeting next Thursday. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/4MMUM… >

Aug. 4, 2024

Re: Looking for advice for home server

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Kevin" == Kevin Stratton via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > I am looking for a cheap solution for the following: > 1) Email server/redireector. I want to have a full custom domain and > email addre0ss. > 2) FTP server on the same domain as the email server. Please no! Setup 'sftp' instead. This does require two IPs on the system since sftp (ftp over ssh) will take up one port because ideally you'd setup virtual users who can't actually login to the system... > 3) GUI setup preferred, I do not want to invest the time (right now) > to get this working as a 'ground up' project. I'd think about Ansible, which lets you do repeatable test builds at home. The trick, of course, is getting your email setup working that way. There's a bunch of parts: postfix for SMTP incoming/outgoing dovecot for IMAP postscreen rspamd - spam filtering dkim - for singing your outgoing emails nginx - for hosting various files for google and others to check for you being who you say you are. Fun fun. And a bunch of other stuff. I'd actually suggest maybe you look at https://mailinabox.email/ do you your setup. I think if I had to do it again, i'd go that route. The most important part though, and the most annoying, if getting your VPS and making sure it's not in a spam block, or likely to get added into one. Its... painful. I've been running stoffel.org for 20+ years now for email and it's gotten harder and harder. Nowdays you need to have SPF keys setup in DNS, DKIM keys for signing emails, you want to make sure you don't relay anything any more, because that will get you banned. Which reminds me I need to stop relaying too. Sigh... > 4) Total bandwidth needs should be negligible. Very true, a mail server is pretty low bandwidth. > How would you approach this? > At a very high level, I am considering: > 1) Dedicating a DDR3 (RAM) era Intel I3 P.C. (sorry, I don not know the > generation) and installing NAS software with the appropriate docker > plugins, if they exist. I do not know if this is even reasonable. > Suggestions are appreciated. I am using a home ISP account. I am aware > of DynDNS type services to get around the lack of a static IP. I do not > currently plan on using this device as an actual NAS due to security > concerns. If necessary, I will use sneaker-net to transfer data, > although I am thinking about ssh or even RS232. If you're thinking of running this at home on your home internet then you're in for probably a rude surprise. Most big mail providers tend to block home IP blocks and not accept email because the volume of spam from them is so high. I'm on a Linode droplet right now, but thinking of moving to something else. > 2) Renting out space on a service like Amazon Web services. Maybe they > have an image that is already what I want. Again, those AWS IP blocks tend to get blocked and dropped because of the spam levels. > Any ideas/thoughts/experiences would be appreciated. I hope to be at > the meeting next Thursday. Happy to chat then. I'd suggest you going the postfix.org mailing list and look through the archives. If you do go with a VPS, you'll really want something with 2gb of RAM or more, because rspamd is a hog. Postfix and dovecot are simple. It's the getting others to accept your email that sucks. John

Aug. 4, 2024

Re: Looking for advice for home server

by Tim Keller

Kevin, It's been our experience that hosting your own email server on a consumer ISP is a nightmare. Because of the spam and bots many companies (mine included) simply drop mail from anything that remotely resolves to a consumer ISP IP. There are solutions around this. Amazon has a service (SES) that can front your mail server and will host your MX records. You'll still need to handle a tremendous amount of spam filtering, etc. When you say FTP server I presume you mean SFTP? As for a NAS, you might be interested in something like FreeNAS Scale. It's linux based, it'll run on *anything. *It handles the whole ZFS setup and configuration of services, etc. It also very clearly supports docker and has a nice interface for installing applications. So you can very easily install something like Min.io and now your NAS has S3 bucket capabilities. For security, you might want to think about setting up something like tailscale so you won't have to knock (too many) holes in your firewall to handle the incoming traffic devices and the NAS will be on a private WAN. Tim. On Sat, Aug 3, 2024 at 4:09 PM Kevin Stratton via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I am looking for a cheap solution for the following: > > 1) Email server/redireector. I want to have a full custom domain and > email addre0ss. > > 2) FTP server on the same domain as the email server. > > 3) GUI setup preferred, I do not want to invest the time (right now) to > get this working as a 'ground up' > > project. > > 4) Total bandwidth needs should be negligible. > > > How would you approach this? > > At a very high level, I am considering: > > 1) Dedicating a DDR3 (RAM) era Intel I3 P.C. (sorry, I don not know the > generation) and installing NAS software with the appropriate docker > plugins, if they exist. I do not know if this is even reasonable. > Suggestions are appreciated. I am using a home ISP account. I am aware > of DynDNS type services to get around the lack of a static IP. I do not > currently plan on using this device as an actual NAS due to security > concerns. If necessary, I will use sneaker-net to transfer data, > although I am thinking about ssh or even RS232. > > 2) Renting out space on a service like Amazon Web services. Maybe they > have an image that is already what I want. > > Any ideas/thoughts/experiences would be appreciated. I hope to be at > the meeting next Thursday. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/4MMUM… > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Aug. 4, 2024

Looking for advice for home server

by Kevin Stratton

I am looking for a cheap solution for the following: 1) Email server/redireector. I want to have a full custom domain and email addre0ss. 2) FTP server on the same domain as the email server. 3) GUI setup preferred, I do not want to invest the time (right now) to get this working as a 'ground up' project. 4) Total bandwidth needs should be negligible. How would you approach this? At a very high level, I am considering: 1) Dedicating a DDR3 (RAM) era Intel I3 P.C. (sorry, I don not know the generation) and installing NAS software with the appropriate docker plugins, if they exist. I do not know if this is even reasonable. Suggestions are appreciated. I am using a home ISP account. I am aware of DynDNS type services to get around the lack of a static IP. I do not currently plan on using this device as an actual NAS due to security concerns. If necessary, I will use sneaker-net to transfer data, although I am thinking about ssh or even RS232. 2) Renting out space on a service like Amazon Web services. Maybe they have an image that is already what I want. Any ideas/thoughts/experiences would be appreciated. I hope to be at the meeting next Thursday.

Aug. 3, 2024

Re: We've got meeting on the 8th of August!

by Joshua Stone

Perhaps we can contrast the fundamentals of a Linux system with all of the new technologies becoming integral to a modern distribution? I've created a survey to get some insight on these changes in the Linux desktop and how quickly they're being adopted. For example: * more than half of respondents said they run Linux without having to multi-boot * nearly 2 out of 3 of respondents said they use a Wayland desktop session only, while 1 out of 6 said they run X.org only * 2 out of 5 respondents said they install most/all of their applications as flatpaks, while almost none of them install snaps at all You can read the survey results here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1_GmX0flabMP4xPwBXcGTU6QtAmpdRJQbCUU18QZSdH… You can also take the survey here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScKuxJKUQ-uzc-I2Y8Z6n0vZmcsFg_XQzx… Note: Google email addresses are required to take the survey because I want people to be able to edit their responses and not send duplicate responses. - Josh On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 9:51 AM Kevin Stratton via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > If you are looking for more (popular) productivity, try Blender for > video editing. > > I only watch some of the first part of the video and I remember it being > pretty good. > > Blender for complete beginners (video editing) > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh7YPabqeDk (Part 1 of 4) > > Video recording - OBS > > > On 7/31/2024 3:12 PM, Keith Wright via WLUG wrote: > > John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > >> So it might be a really good thing for us to show some of this, along > >> with some of the basic apps. > >> > >> - web browser > >> - inkscape > >> - gimp > >> - libre office > >> > >> Basic productivity which most people would want to use. > > I guess what counts as productivity depends upon what you > > want to produce. > > > > I need a web browser (Firefox) to learn about stuff and get it. > > Is there any reason to prefer one over another? > > > > I didn't know what inkscape is. Googled it (with browser). > > It looks like it might be fun to play with, but is it > > "productivity"? > > > > I have used gimp years ago, mostly to make party invitations > > with logo and map. I might have used inkscape if I knew about > > it at the time. > > > > Office, I have heard, can read Microsoft Office documents, > > which is something I refuse to do. Years ago I filtered out > > a lot of stupid spam by setting the SMTP server to reject > > anything with an attached MS-Word file. I think it still > > does that, but nobody sends them anymore. I'm hoping it > > follows Adobe shockwave flash web pages into oblivion. > > > > Besides the browser, my "productivity apps" are: > > > > -- emacs. There may be other ASCII editors, but how > > can one produce _anything_ without _some_ editor? > > > > -- gcc. I am interested in the Scheme programming > > language, but I need a C compiler (and make) to > > make the Scheme interpreter, and everything else. > > > > -- evince. A *.pdf reader. If I download a journal > > article, it's a PDF. > > > > -- TeX, LaTeX. To make my own article.pdf. > > > > -- Postfix, Apache. That's the way I roll. Others > > might think Facebook is a good substitute. Phltt! > > > > This conversation started with a link to a Video. > > How do you make a video? You get the raw material from > > a video camera/"phone", but what software should I use > > to cut and paste, maybe enlarge and crop? > > > > -- Keith > > > > _______________________________________________ > > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/N6TYC… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/SMNMC… >

Aug. 1, 2024

Re: We've got meeting on the 8th of August!

by Kevin Stratton

If you are looking for more (popular) productivity, try Blender for video editing. I only watch some of the first part of the video and I remember it being pretty good. Blender for complete beginners (video editing) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh7YPabqeDk (Part 1 of 4) Video recording - OBS On 7/31/2024 3:12 PM, Keith Wright via WLUG wrote: > John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > >> So it might be a really good thing for us to show some of this, along >> with some of the basic apps. >> >> - web browser >> - inkscape >> - gimp >> - libre office >> >> Basic productivity which most people would want to use. > I guess what counts as productivity depends upon what you > want to produce. > > I need a web browser (Firefox) to learn about stuff and get it. > Is there any reason to prefer one over another? > > I didn't know what inkscape is. Googled it (with browser). > It looks like it might be fun to play with, but is it > "productivity"? > > I have used gimp years ago, mostly to make party invitations > with logo and map. I might have used inkscape if I knew about > it at the time. > > Office, I have heard, can read Microsoft Office documents, > which is something I refuse to do. Years ago I filtered out > a lot of stupid spam by setting the SMTP server to reject > anything with an attached MS-Word file. I think it still > does that, but nobody sends them anymore. I'm hoping it > follows Adobe shockwave flash web pages into oblivion. > > Besides the browser, my "productivity apps" are: > > -- emacs. There may be other ASCII editors, but how > can one produce _anything_ without _some_ editor? > > -- gcc. I am interested in the Scheme programming > language, but I need a C compiler (and make) to > make the Scheme interpreter, and everything else. > > -- evince. A *.pdf reader. If I download a journal > article, it's a PDF. > > -- TeX, LaTeX. To make my own article.pdf. > > -- Postfix, Apache. That's the way I roll. Others > might think Facebook is a good substitute. Phltt! > > This conversation started with a link to a Video. > How do you make a video? You get the raw material from > a video camera/"phone", but what software should I use > to cut and paste, maybe enlarge and crop? > > -- Keith > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/N6TYC…

Aug. 1, 2024

Re: We've got meeting on the 8th of August!

by Keith Wright

John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > So it might be a really good thing for us to show some of this, along > with some of the basic apps. > > - web browser > - inkscape > - gimp > - libre office > > Basic productivity which most people would want to use. I guess what counts as productivity depends upon what you want to produce. I need a web browser (Firefox) to learn about stuff and get it. Is there any reason to prefer one over another? I didn't know what inkscape is. Googled it (with browser). It looks like it might be fun to play with, but is it "productivity"? I have used gimp years ago, mostly to make party invitations with logo and map. I might have used inkscape if I knew about it at the time. Office, I have heard, can read Microsoft Office documents, which is something I refuse to do. Years ago I filtered out a lot of stupid spam by setting the SMTP server to reject anything with an attached MS-Word file. I think it still does that, but nobody sends them anymore. I'm hoping it follows Adobe shockwave flash web pages into oblivion. Besides the browser, my "productivity apps" are: -- emacs. There may be other ASCII editors, but how can one produce _anything_ without _some_ editor? -- gcc. I am interested in the Scheme programming language, but I need a C compiler (and make) to make the Scheme interpreter, and everything else. -- evince. A *.pdf reader. If I download a journal article, it's a PDF. -- TeX, LaTeX. To make my own article.pdf. -- Postfix, Apache. That's the way I roll. Others might think Facebook is a good substitute. Phltt! This conversation started with a link to a Video. How do you make a video? You get the raw material from a video camera/"phone", but what software should I use to cut and paste, maybe enlarge and crop? -- Keith

July 31, 2024

Re: We've got meeting on the 8th of August!

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Kevin" == Kevin Harrington via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > My personal favorite intro video (since basically all of this is still > true in modern linux): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc4ROCJYbm0 Heh, it's only 42 years old, but it's still an interesting thing to watch. But it does miss the point today in alot of ways. I had a discussion with a person last thursday who also complained about us not being quite as good about getting back to basics with Linux and how to install and use it. So it might be a really good thing for us to show some of this, along with some of the basic apps. - web browser - inkscape - gimp - libre office Basic productivity which most people would want to use. > On Mon, Jul 29, 2024 at 9:51 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >> >> Hey Everybody! We've got a meeting and a topic idea! >> >> We've got a meeting on the 8th! >> >> During the last couple of meetings, we've had a couple of new users come by and it was clear to me that we were going into the higher level linux concepts, many of which were flying over their heads. >> >> I was thinking it might be really good to have a back to basics wlug meeting, where we get in get into unix philosophy, what a distro is, what parts make up a distro, common things people deal with, etc. Yeah, nah? >> >> I'm also trying to turn a page here and start the conversation about the meeting more than say.. 2 days before the meeting so the meetings can continue to have their ruckus nature, but actually have some bit of structure! >> >> Thanks, >> Tim. >> >> -- >> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers". >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ACOXX… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ZJPQ6…

July 30, 2024

Re: We've got meeting on the 8th of August!

by Kevin Harrington

My personal favorite intro video (since basically all of this is still true in modern linux): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc4ROCJYbm0 On Mon, Jul 29, 2024 at 9:51 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Hey Everybody! We've got a meeting and a topic idea! > > We've got a meeting on the 8th! > > During the last couple of meetings, we've had a couple of new users come by and it was clear to me that we were going into the higher level linux concepts, many of which were flying over their heads. > > I was thinking it might be really good to have a back to basics wlug meeting, where we get in get into unix philosophy, what a distro is, what parts make up a distro, common things people deal with, etc. Yeah, nah? > > I'm also trying to turn a page here and start the conversation about the meeting more than say.. 2 days before the meeting so the meetings can continue to have their ruckus nature, but actually have some bit of structure! > > Thanks, > Tim. > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ACOXX…

July 29, 2024

We've got meeting on the 8th of August!

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody! We've got a meeting and a topic idea! We've got a meeting on the 8th! During the last couple of meetings, we've had a couple of new users come by and it was clear to me that we were going into the higher level linux concepts, many of which were flying over their heads. I was thinking it might be really good to have a back to basics wlug meeting, where we get in get into unix philosophy, what a distro is, what parts make up a distro, common things people deal with, etc. Yeah, nah? I'm also trying to turn a page here and start the conversation about the meeting more than say.. 2 days before the meeting so the meetings can continue to have their ruckus nature, but actually have some bit of structure! Thanks, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

July 29, 2024

Re: Happy Sysadmin day!

by Michael Voorhis

I've had a few disk failures this week running up to today's 'holiday' which nobody a WPI seems to be aware of. In all it's been pretty boring, which is JUST FINE for me. On 7/26/24 4:08 PM, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: > Happy Sysadmin day!

July 26, 2024

Happy Sysadmin day!

by Tim Keller

Happy Sysadmin day! I hope your day has been less eventful than mine! Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

July 26, 2024

Re: Where do I put mount script?

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Kevin" == Kevin Stratton via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > I have a NAS that I am able to mount using NFS and I suspect that I > can also mount as CIFS. Be careful, you want to mount as one or the other if at all possible. Otherwise there leads madness since the NFS persmission and CIFS permissions aren't really compatible. > I am currently using multicast DNS addresses in the addresses in my > mount command and I do not want to use the numeric style IP > addresses that seems to be required for /etc/fstab. Why? What does this buy you? Do you not have local DNS setup on your home LAN network? > Does anyone have suggestions where to place this mount command > script? This command seems to needs root access, which may limit > where the script with command will be placed. You shouldn't need a script, just add it properly into your /etc/fstab file. But are you trying to access this NAS from both home and while you're at the local coffee shop? So I have my home directory on my home server exported and mounted on a desktop, so when I login to either 'sail' or 'quad' I have the same files. So on sail (a Linux Mint Distro system) I just have: quad:/home /home nfs _netdev,auto,vers=3 0 0 in my /etc/fstab file. And of course I have an entry for quad in /etc/hosts as well, even though it's also in my local network DNS as well. Better safe than sorry. So anyway, the above mount tab entry mounts it on system bootup. John

July 24, 2024

Where do I put mount script?

by Kevin Stratton

I have a NAS that I am able to mount using NFS and I suspect that I can also mount as CIFS. I am currently using multicast DNS addresses in the addresses in my mount command and I do not want to use the numeric style IP addresses that seems to be required for /etc/fstab. Does anyone have suggestions where to place this mount command script? This command seems to needs root access, which may limit where the script with command will be placed.

July 24, 2024

Re: Reminder!! WLUG meeting July 11th 2024 @7pm: Location: Technocopia!

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Jansen" == Jansen Smith via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Demoed new features of the LLM setup, including Llama3 and document parsing. It was certainly interesting to see this! And it really shows how having a graphics card helps, but if you blow out the size that can fit in the graphic card's memory, it slows way down again. > Talked to John about the open source game Mindustry, which Kevin & I > have compiled from source and > played: https://github.com/Anuken/Mindustry Ah.. it's a java game with graphics. I'll probably pass for now. I'm too much of a nethack/crawl/moria type of gamer. :-) Though I have to admit I've spent some time playing 'naev' which sorta reminds me of the classic 'elite' but without the 3-d graphics. https://github.com/naev/naev Not amazingly fast development, but it's a fun thing to play with. > On Thu, Jul 11, 2024, 5:53 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey everybody! > We've got a WLUG meeting this Thursday at technocopia! > Time: 7pm > Date: July 11th 2024 > Location: 44 Portland St. Worcester MA > Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > Topic(s): > SSH exploits > There's been plenty of talk about Ubuntu upgrades, it's worth talking about various backup > strategies and options that are out there. If people have other things they want to talk > about, by all means! I've continued to tinker with the LLM stuff and I'll have that laptop > with me as well. > After the meeting we'll head off for dinner to keep the conversation going. > Later, > Tim. > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as > "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/UMVOQ… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/G35R2…

July 13, 2024

Re: Reminder!! WLUG meeting July 11th 2024 @7pm: Location: Technocopia!

by Jansen Smith

Demoed new features of the LLM setup, including Llama3 and document parsing. Talked to John about the open source game Mindustry, which Kevin & I have compiled from source and played: https://github.com/Anuken/Mindustry On Thu, Jul 11, 2024, 5:53 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Hey everybody! > > We've got a WLUG meeting this Thursday at technocopia! > > Time: 7pm > Date: July 11th 2024 > Location: 44 Portland St. Worcester MA > Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > > Topic(s): > SSH exploits > There's been plenty of talk about Ubuntu upgrades, it's worth talking > about various backup strategies and options that are out there. If people > have other things they want to talk about, by all means! I've continued to > tinker with the LLM stuff and I'll have that laptop with me as well. > > After the meeting we'll head off for dinner to keep the conversation going. > > Later, > Tim. > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/UMVOQ… >

July 12, 2024

Running a bit late, be cool!

by Tim Keller

July 11, 2024

Reminder!! WLUG meeting July 11th 2024 @7pm: Location: Technocopia!

by Tim Keller

Hey everybody! We've got a WLUG meeting this Thursday at technocopia! Time: 7pm Date: July 11th 2024 Location: 44 Portland St. Worcester MA Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Topic(s): SSH exploits There's been plenty of talk about Ubuntu upgrades, it's worth talking about various backup strategies and options that are out there. If people have other things they want to talk about, by all means! I've continued to tinker with the LLM stuff and I'll have that laptop with me as well. After the meeting we'll head off for dinner to keep the conversation going. Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

July 11, 2024

Re: Reminder!! WLUG meeting July 11th 2024 @7pm: Location: Technocopia!

by Tim Keller

Awesome! That would be really cool to see! Also, yes, the data on that page is VERY outdated! I'll get on fixing that! Also, my CC just got hit with a charge for Meetup, so I might as well keep that up to date as well! Thanks, Tim. On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 2:30 PM Jansen Smith <Jansen(a)bstarengineering.com> wrote: > I have a demo of open source LLM document parsing prepped. > I *might* have an open LLM terminal interpreter demo prepped... We'll see. > > Also, this info on WLUG.org's Participate tab seems outdated: > > > > > On Tue, Jul 9, 2024, 5:59 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> Hey everybody! >> >> We've got a WLUG meeting this Thursday at technocopia! >> >> Time: 7pm >> Date: July 11th 2024 >> Location: 44 Portland St. Worcester MA >> Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >> >> Topic(s): >> SSH exploits >> There's been plenty of talk about Ubuntu upgrades, it's worth talking >> about various backup strategies and options that are out there. If people >> have other things they want to talk about, by all means! I've continued to >> tinker with the LLM stuff and I'll have that laptop with me as well. >> >> After the meeting we'll head off for dinner to keep the conversation >> going. >> >> Later, >> Tim. >> >> >> >> -- >> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >> constituents as "consumers". >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/NSTLC… >> > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

July 11, 2024

Re: Reminder!! WLUG meeting July 11th 2024 @7pm: Location: Technocopia!

by Jansen Smith

I have a demo of open source LLM document parsing prepped. I *might* have an open LLM terminal interpreter demo prepped... We'll see. Also, this info on WLUG.org's Participate tab seems outdated: On Tue, Jul 9, 2024, 5:59 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey everybody! > > We've got a WLUG meeting this Thursday at technocopia! > > Time: 7pm > Date: July 11th 2024 > Location: 44 Portland St. Worcester MA > Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > > Topic(s): > SSH exploits > There's been plenty of talk about Ubuntu upgrades, it's worth talking > about various backup strategies and options that are out there. If people > have other things they want to talk about, by all means! I've continued to > tinker with the LLM stuff and I'll have that laptop with me as well. > > After the meeting we'll head off for dinner to keep the conversation going. > > Later, > Tim. > > > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/NSTLC… >

July 11, 2024

Reminder!! WLUG meeting July 11th 2024 @7pm: Location: Technocopia!

by Tim Keller

Hey everybody! We've got a WLUG meeting this Thursday at technocopia! Time: 7pm Date: July 11th 2024 Location: 44 Portland St. Worcester MA Virtual Location: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Topic(s): SSH exploits There's been plenty of talk about Ubuntu upgrades, it's worth talking about various backup strategies and options that are out there. If people have other things they want to talk about, by all means! I've continued to tinker with the LLM stuff and I'll have that laptop with me as well. After the meeting we'll head off for dinner to keep the conversation going. Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

July 9, 2024

Re: DECStation 3100 on a RPi2040...

by Jon "maddog" Hall

Kevin, I found two articles that gave more technical information on the exact problem. First of all is this issue of the chip that was used to supply "serial control" of various devices. Many people might not think about it, but the keyboard and mice are also "serial devices" and used up two ports of the four port DC7085 gate array: These systems have four asynchronous serial lines that are provided by a > DC7085 gate array. Of the four serial lines, only the third line has the > required modem control signals to support a modem. A 4-pin MMJ connector is > provided for the keyboard line, a 7-pin DIN connector for mouse line, and > two 6-pin MMJ connectors for printer and modem lines. > > Now we put in who articles about what lines and pins were actually implemented: http://www.vanade.com/~blc/DS3100/pinouts.html https://www.tuhs.org/Usenet/comp.unix.ultrix/1991-May/005327.html Now it appears as if the DS 3000 had two "serial ports", one designated for a modem and one designated for a printer. Reading them brings back more of the "issues". One issue is that many Unix systems were not used just as a desktop system, but as "servers" too. A prime example of this was that a VMS Workstation was only allowed a single user to be logged on at one time. A multi-user license was not allowed for VMS Workstations through a dictum put forward by VAX product management. This, of course, was not what Unix people (and particularly Sun customers) would do. They might have a single person using the keyboard, mouse and main screen, but have several others logged onto the system over TCP/IP. *You can now skip ahead to more about the issue of serial ports, but you will be missing an interesting part of DEC history:* For years DEC refused to sell a multi-user license to workstation users. We even had a separate product called Ultrix-32w which was both the Ultrix-32 software plus the graphical server and came with a two user license (so either uucp or the network administrator) could log in at the same time as the user at the main keyboard. However, no other general user could log in at the same time. So the base Ultrix-32w came with that two-user license, and there was no "upgrade". Eventually I found this "rule" so damaging to Digital's Unix business that I decided to fight it. This "rule" might have made sense in the original days of 1 million instructions/second CPUs and unaccelerated graphics, but made NO sense with the much faster and accelerated graphics. We were being whipped senseless by Sun's marketing team. So I traded this "rule" down, and finally found that it had been generated by Jesse Lipcon, at that time a VP of workstations. I called him up and explained the situation. "Oh, I NEVER meant that to apply to UNIX Workstations...only VMS Workstations" said Jesse. "The Unix market is much different." So I held a meeting the next week. I picked the largest meeting room, expecting there would be much argument. I made a huge presentation about the whole issue and how much business we were missing. I pointed out that it was really up to the customer how many people or processes would be on that system, and DEC should not be limiting it artificially. The day of the meeting, the room was packed. There were people standing in the hallways. I stood up at the front, made the presentation, and asked if anyone had objections. No one raised their hand. "Then why are you here?" I asked. "We just came to see the fireworks." was the answer. "Then Digital now sells multi-user workstations." I declared. Of course things were a little more complicated than that, since there were changes to documentation, licensing, and a whole project around adding another graphics tube, keyboard and mouse to the hardware (the "Multi-User Caylith" project), but we charged ahead with the multi-user system. *Back to the serial ports:* So the VMS viewpoint of workstations you *might* have a printer and a modem hooked to the workstation, but more likely these would be attached to a server someplace to be shared with other workstation users. From a Unix standpoint, your workstation might ALSO be a server, and might have a printer and modem OR TWO MODEMS attached to the workstation, On either serial port they worked fairly well at lower transfer speeds with handshaking, but with higher speeds the handshaking tended to break down, especially if you hooked a second modem up to the "printer port". Another issue was the lack of the "CD" line, that tells the system the modem has lost connection, and requires that the software on the system recognize this through a timeout. This violated the concept of "DECstandard 052", a standard that was developed for modems hooked up to DEC's systems. Before the adoption of "DECstandard 052" in order to hook a modem up to a computer and a country's telephone lines you had to test every modem with every piece of hardware and every operating system in every country. This was not only a very expensive process, but took a long time after operating system releases. By developing DECstandard 052 the company made this a lot easier. The hardware and operating system groups only had to certify against DECstandard 052, and customers could then connect up any "standard" modems and know that they had the modem control signals to reliably interact with the modems of the country. The DECstation 3100 did not meet DECstandard 052: DEC STD 052-0 Operational Requirements for Serial Terminals and Computer Interfaces Operating as DTEs Connected to EIA RS-232-C or CCITT V.28 Modems - Part: EL-00052-00 - 1981 We've run both UUCP and SLIP on 3100s here; the modem-control "problems" > really aren't that serious a problem unless you are a high-security sort of > place. What is missing is the CD line that lets the modem tell the computer > that it has lost its connection. This means that when the other end (or the > phone company ;-) decides to hang up on you, the modem knows about it right > away, but the software has to use a timeout mechanism, because the modem's > attempt to say "Hey, we just lost the connection" does not get through. > > This allowed another call to arrive at the same port, and perhaps gain control of it without having to authenticate. Unlikely? Yes. Impossible? No. Using the printer port for a modem made the issue even worse. After all, you did not expect the printer to talk back to you at high speed. So now you know the REST of the story. md On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 1:32 PM Kevin Stratton <kstratton(a)fastmail.us> wrote: > I found this information interesting. > > The statement > > "To save a couple of pennies per system the > > VAX hardware designers determined that having full hardware modem > > control (DECstandard 52) on the board was not needed, because "very > > few workstation users hook a modem up to their serial line". > > has two different meanings (to me) in the context of this discussion. They > are: > > 1) RI and DCD are not implemented in hardware (Ring indicator and data > carrier detect) > > 2) A subset of RTS, CTS, DSR, DTR as well as RI and DCD are not > implemented in hardware. > > Does anyone want to clarify this in greater detail? Just curious. > > > On 7/6/2024 8:59 PM, Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG wrote: > > John: > > That's an interesting statement. I would think it was the same case > and port setup, but a different motherboard since you couldn't just > slot a MIPS processor into a VAXstation processor. > > > That is why I said "based". "Based" means that you did not have to > requalify a lot of the parts, that you could use a lot of the same Bill of > Materials....it does not mean you use exactly the same PCB. In the case > of the VAXstation/DECstation 3100 that meant we used the same serial io > chips and did not provide the hardware flow control. > > Yes! It's coming back to me, the 3100s were horrible for serial, >> though I think they had fixed it for the 5000 series systems, since >> the DECstation 5000 and the DECserver 5100 were identical, except the >> DECStation had a graphics card and cost 10-20% _less_ than the >> DECstation 5000. So we bought DECStations and used them as servers. > > > The server groups were different engineers, and the 5000s were designed > after the DECstation 3100/2100 series. > > Actually we MIGHT have caught the issue with the serial port for the > DECstation 3100/2100 because I brought up the issue in a hardware meeting > and was assured that it had been fixed because (and I can still hear this > person's voice in my head) the DECstation was a REAL UNIX MACHINE. I > should have found that person later and beaten him to death. > > David: > >> Actually, Cutler was already in trouble with management because of the >> Prism project. Prism was the first try at building a RISC machine (this >> was in the 1985-1986 time frame) and it was managed by Dave Cutler. >> Unfortunately, Dave was not a good administrator. He was doing a very bad >> job of managing the project and doing a very bad job of keeping management >> up to date on what was going on. Finally, management cancelled Prism and >> that is when they decided to go with the MIPS architecture. >> >> That is not what I experienced. I will not comment on Dave's skills as > an administrator or manager of the project. I do know that he had the > very ambitious project of doing the next-generation architecture and the > next generation operating system. He wanted a micro-kernel based system > with "personalities", one personality being VMS and the other personality > being Unix. One issue he had was when there was a clash between > personalities he would always favor VMS and therefore the Unix personality > would not be "perfect". I felt this was a mistake, since Unix people did > not tolerate things that did not smell like Unix. VMS people could have > been led over to a new environment over time since DEC controlled the path > with VMS. > > The reason I know this is that I personally interviewed with David Cutler > for the position of Unix Product Manager for his new operating system. > The interview was going fine until I tried to explain to Dave why his > strategy was wrong and he had to make the Unix side really compatible. > Then things got ugly, as David really did not like to be told he was wrong. > > Ken did have the bad habit of cutting off Dave's development money, then > giving it back to him again. I seem to remember that Dave was still going > full steam ahead while the PMAX was being developed, which is one reason > why he was caught so flat-footed when PMAX was announced. It was kept > REALLY SECRET. It probably did not help that Ken reportedly asked David > in a gleeful tone if the new chip would be as fast as the PMAX.... > > "Will it be THIS FAST, Dave?" was the reported question. > > It is also my belief that the Alpha chip came directly from Dave's work on > the PRISM, and that Windows NT came directly from David's work on the > microkernel with personalities. DEC never "decided to go with MIPS" > except as a stop-gap measure for Unix. If DEC had "decided to go with > MIPS" they would have ported VMS to it, and since that never happened, it > was obvious that DEC had not embraced MIPS. > > md > > > On Sat, Jul 6, 2024 at 3:27 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: > >> >>>>> "Jon" == Jon \"maddog\" Hall via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> >> > The DECstation 3100 (aka the PMAX) was a system based on the same >> > motherboard as the VAXstation 3100, except with a MIPS processor. >> > It was the first time that Digital had built a system using another >> > company's chip architecture. >> >> That's an interesting statement. I would think it was the same case >> and port setup, but a different motherboard since you couldn't just >> slot a MIPS processor into a VAXstation processor. >> >> > We had a choice between supporting the MIPS R2000 chip as "big >> > endian" or "little endian". We chose to support "little endian" to >> > be compatible with PDP-11s, VAXen and Intel chips, rather than be >> > compatible with other manufacturers. This, in my mind, was very >> > important since it let us share data over NFS and give greater >> > compatibility with programs and libraries of applications already >> > running on other Unix-like systems such as Ultrix, BSD, etc. Sun >> > experienced this grief when they ported Solaris off the big endian >> > Motorola and SPARC chips to little endian Intel. >> >> > One of the few issues of the DECstation 3100 (and 2100, known as the >> > "PMIN" after that) was that the serial I/O port did not support >> > hardware handshaking. To save a couple of pennies per system the >> > VAX hardware designers determined that having full hardware modem >> > control (DECstandard 52) on the board was not needed, because "very >> > few workstation users hook a modem up to their serial line". What >> > they meant was that "very few VMS workstation users hooked a modem >> > up to their serial line", opting for DECnet to handle their >> > networking. Therefore the pins necessary to support hardware modem >> > control were missing from the DECstation product lines. >> >> Yes! It's coming back to me, the 3100s were horrible for serial, >> though I think they had fixed it for the 5000 series systems, since >> the DECstation 5000 and the DECserver 5100 were identical, except the >> DECStation had a graphics card and cost 10-20% _less_ than the >> DECstation 5000. So we bought DECStations and used them as servers. >> :-) >> >> I used to live and breathe the DEC options catalog, which was >> something like an inch thick book in purple (maybe blue? maybe changed >> each year?) with all the various options and configurations you could >> get. >> >> > Unix users, on the other hand, often had modems hooked up to their >> > workstation, to handle cu(1), uucp(1) and other serial line >> > protocols. We eventually got around this by better refining >> > software modem control, but it was painful. >> >> The EE department had Sun 1s at WPI, and they have the 9600 baud >> bitnet connection running of a VAX 11/780 at the time. >> >> > The proposal, design and release of the DECstation 3100 was a >> > top-secret project inside of DEC, kept secret from even many people >> > in the Digital Unix group in Nashua, New Hampshire. The >> > development of the system was done in Palo Alto's WorkStation >> > Engineering group and the software engineering was done in the >> > Western Software Labs in Palo Alto, albeit by taking key engineers >> > from the Nashua facility and transplanting them temporarily to Palo >> > Alto. >> >> > The implementation was kept so secret that it caught Dave Cutler, >> > then working on DEC's next-generation operating system and chips, by >> > surprise when it debuted at a Board Meeting in Maynard, >> > Massachusetts. Shortly after that board meeting Mr. Cutler left >> > Digital and moved (with some of his team) to Microsoft. >> >> Do you think that was just the straw that broke the camel's back? >> >> > The DECstations only were manufactured for a couple of years, as the >> > DEC Alpha processor replaced MIPS in Digital's lineup. Although >> > originally promised that OSF/1 would be ported to the DECstation >> > line, this port was dropped due to realizing that there would never >> > be an application base to support the customers of a DECstation >> > OSF/1 port. It was better for ISVs and customers to maintain the >> > Ultrix base for the DECstations than to split the base into Ultrix >> > and OSF/1. >> >> Yeah, we had a ton of DECstations and a bunch of various early model >> Alphas at WPI which we beta tested for DEC. The AS2100 with 8 DEC >> StorageWorks canisters (which Netapp used on their early F220, F330, >> F740 NAS systems) holding 3.5" disks, dual ported, hot-swapable. Nice >> gear. >> >> The move from Ultrix to DEC OSF/1 was a bit painful, but not terrible >> as I recall, but I'm sure I've blocked all the bad memories from then. >> >> Thanks for the walk down memory lane! >> John >> > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/UUCPQ… > >

July 7, 2024

Re: DECStation 3100 on a RPi2040...

by Kevin Stratton

I found this information interesting. The statement "To save a couple of pennies per system the > VAX hardware designers determined that having full hardware modem > control (DECstandard 52) on the board was not needed, because "very > few workstation users hook a modem up to their serial line". has two different meanings (to me) in the context of this discussion. They are: 1) RI and DCD are not implemented in hardware (Ring indicator and data carrier detect) 2) A subset of RTS, CTS, DSR, DTR as well as RI and DCD are not implemented in hardware. Does anyone want to clarify this in greater detail? Just curious. On 7/6/2024 8:59 PM, Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG wrote: > John: > > That's an interesting statement. I would think it was the same case > and port setup, but a different motherboard since you couldn't just > slot a MIPS processor into a VAXstation processor. > > > That is why I said "based". "Based" means that you did not have to > requalify a lot of the parts, that you could use a lot of the same > Bill of Materials....it does not mean you use exactly the same PCB. > In the case of the VAXstation/DECstation 3100 that meant we used the > same serial io chips and did not provide the hardware flow control. > > Yes! It's coming back to me, the 3100s were horrible for serial, > though I think they had fixed it for the 5000 series systems, since > the DECstation 5000 and the DECserver 5100 were identical, except the > DECStation had a graphics card and cost 10-20% _less_ than the > DECstation 5000. So we bought DECStations and used them as servers. > > > The server groups were different engineers, and the 5000s were > designed after the DECstation 3100/2100 series. > > Actually we MIGHT have caught the issue with the serial port for the > DECstation 3100/2100 because I brought up the issue in a hardware > meeting and was assured that it had been fixed because (and I can > still hear this person's voice in my head) the DECstation was a REAL > UNIX MACHINE. I should have found that person later and beaten him > to death. > > David: > > Actually, Cutler was already in trouble with management because of > the Prism project. Prism was the first try at building a RISC > machine (this was in the 1985-1986 time frame) and it was managed > by Dave Cutler. Unfortunately, Dave was not a good administrator. > He was doing a very bad job of managing the project and doing a > very bad job of keeping management up to date on what was going > on. Finally, management cancelled Prism and that is when they > decided to go with the MIPS architecture. > > That is not what I experienced. I will not comment on Dave's skills > as an administrator or manager of the project. I do know that he had > the very ambitious project of doing the next-generation architecture > and the next generation operating system. He wanted a micro-kernel > based system with "personalities", one personality being VMS and the > other personality being Unix. One issue he had was when there was a > clash between personalities he would always favor VMS and therefore > the Unix personality would not be "perfect". I felt this was a > mistake, since Unix people did not tolerate things that did not smell > like Unix. VMS people could have been led over to a new environment > over time since DEC controlled the path with VMS. > > The reason I know this is that I personally interviewed with David > Cutler for the position of Unix Product Manager for his new operating > system. The interview was going fine until I tried to explain to > Dave why his strategy was wrong and he had to make the Unix side > really compatible. Then things got ugly, as David really did not like > to be told he was wrong. > > Ken did have the bad habit of cutting off Dave's development money, > then giving it back to him again. I seem to remember that Dave was > still going full steam ahead while the PMAX was being developed, which > is one reason why he was caught so flat-footed when PMAX was > announced. It was kept REALLY SECRET. It probably did not help > that Ken reportedly asked David in a gleeful tone if the new chip > would be as fast as the PMAX.... > > "Will it be THIS FAST, Dave?" was the reported question. > > It is also my belief that the Alpha chip came directly from Dave's > work on the PRISM, and that Windows NT came directly from David's work > on the microkernel with personalities. DEC never "decided to go > with MIPS" except as a stop-gap measure for Unix. If DEC had > "decided to go with MIPS" they would have ported VMS to it, and since > that never happened, it was obvious that DEC had not embraced MIPS. > > md > > > On Sat, Jul 6, 2024 at 3:27 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: > > >>>>> "Jon" == Jon \"maddog\" Hall via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > writes: > > > The DECstation 3100 (aka the PMAX) was a system based on the same > > motherboard as the VAXstation 3100, except with a MIPS processor. > > It was the first time that Digital had built a system using another > > company's chip architecture. > > That's an interesting statement. I would think it was the same case > and port setup, but a different motherboard since you couldn't just > slot a MIPS processor into a VAXstation processor. > > > We had a choice between supporting the MIPS R2000 chip as "big > > endian" or "little endian". We chose to support "little endian" to > > be compatible with PDP-11s, VAXen and Intel chips, rather than be > > compatible with other manufacturers. This, in my mind, was very > > important since it let us share data over NFS and give greater > > compatibility with programs and libraries of applications already > > running on other Unix-like systems such as Ultrix, BSD, etc. Sun > > experienced this grief when they ported Solaris off the big endian > > Motorola and SPARC chips to little endian Intel. > > > One of the few issues of the DECstation 3100 (and 2100, known as the > > "PMIN" after that) was that the serial I/O port did not support > > hardware handshaking. To save a couple of pennies per system the > > VAX hardware designers determined that having full hardware modem > > control (DECstandard 52) on the board was not needed, because "very > > few workstation users hook a modem up to their serial line". What > > they meant was that "very few VMS workstation users hooked a modem > > up to their serial line", opting for DECnet to handle their > > networking. Therefore the pins necessary to support hardware modem > > control were missing from the DECstation product lines. > > Yes! It's coming back to me, the 3100s were horrible for serial, > though I think they had fixed it for the 5000 series systems, since > the DECstation 5000 and the DECserver 5100 were identical, except the > DECStation had a graphics card and cost 10-20% _less_ than the > DECstation 5000. So we bought DECStations and used them as servers. > :-) > > I used to live and breathe the DEC options catalog, which was > something like an inch thick book in purple (maybe blue? maybe changed > each year?) with all the various options and configurations you could > get. > > > Unix users, on the other hand, often had modems hooked up to their > > workstation, to handle cu(1), uucp(1) and other serial line > > protocols. We eventually got around this by better refining > > software modem control, but it was painful. > > The EE department had Sun 1s at WPI, and they have the 9600 baud > bitnet connection running of a VAX 11/780 at the time. > > > The proposal, design and release of the DECstation 3100 was a > > top-secret project inside of DEC, kept secret from even many people > > in the Digital Unix group in Nashua, New Hampshire. The > > development of the system was done in Palo Alto's WorkStation > > Engineering group and the software engineering was done in the > > Western Software Labs in Palo Alto, albeit by taking key engineers > > from the Nashua facility and transplanting them temporarily to Palo > > Alto. > > > The implementation was kept so secret that it caught Dave Cutler, > > then working on DEC's next-generation operating system and chips, by > > surprise when it debuted at a Board Meeting in Maynard, > > Massachusetts. Shortly after that board meeting Mr. Cutler left > > Digital and moved (with some of his team) to Microsoft. > > Do you think that was just the straw that broke the camel's back? > > > The DECstations only were manufactured for a couple of years, as the > > DEC Alpha processor replaced MIPS in Digital's lineup. Although > > originally promised that OSF/1 would be ported to the DECstation > > line, this port was dropped due to realizing that there would never > > be an application base to support the customers of a DECstation > > OSF/1 port. It was better for ISVs and customers to maintain the > > Ultrix base for the DECstations than to split the base into Ultrix > > and OSF/1. > > Yeah, we had a ton of DECstations and a bunch of various early model > Alphas at WPI which we beta tested for DEC. The AS2100 with 8 DEC > StorageWorks canisters (which Netapp used on their early F220, F330, > F740 NAS systems) holding 3.5" disks, dual ported, hot-swapable. Nice > gear. > > The move from Ultrix to DEC OSF/1 was a bit painful, but not terrible > as I recall, but I'm sure I've blocked all the bad memories from then. > > Thanks for the walk down memory lane! > John > > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list --wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email towlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account:https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings:https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive:https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org…

July 7, 2024

Re: DECStation 3100 on a RPi2040...

by Jon "maddog" Hall

John: That's an interesting statement. I would think it was the same case and port setup, but a different motherboard since you couldn't just slot a MIPS processor into a VAXstation processor. That is why I said "based". "Based" means that you did not have to requalify a lot of the parts, that you could use a lot of the same Bill of Materials....it does not mean you use exactly the same PCB. In the case of the VAXstation/DECstation 3100 that meant we used the same serial io chips and did not provide the hardware flow control. Yes! It's coming back to me, the 3100s were horrible for serial, > though I think they had fixed it for the 5000 series systems, since > the DECstation 5000 and the DECserver 5100 were identical, except the > DECStation had a graphics card and cost 10-20% _less_ than the > DECstation 5000. So we bought DECStations and used them as servers. The server groups were different engineers, and the 5000s were designed after the DECstation 3100/2100 series. Actually we MIGHT have caught the issue with the serial port for the DECstation 3100/2100 because I brought up the issue in a hardware meeting and was assured that it had been fixed because (and I can still hear this person's voice in my head) the DECstation was a REAL UNIX MACHINE. I should have found that person later and beaten him to death. David: > Actually, Cutler was already in trouble with management because of the > Prism project. Prism was the first try at building a RISC machine (this > was in the 1985-1986 time frame) and it was managed by Dave Cutler. > Unfortunately, Dave was not a good administrator. He was doing a very bad > job of managing the project and doing a very bad job of keeping management > up to date on what was going on. Finally, management cancelled Prism and > that is when they decided to go with the MIPS architecture. > > That is not what I experienced. I will not comment on Dave's skills as an administrator or manager of the project. I do know that he had the very ambitious project of doing the next-generation architecture and the next generation operating system. He wanted a micro-kernel based system with "personalities", one personality being VMS and the other personality being Unix. One issue he had was when there was a clash between personalities he would always favor VMS and therefore the Unix personality would not be "perfect". I felt this was a mistake, since Unix people did not tolerate things that did not smell like Unix. VMS people could have been led over to a new environment over time since DEC controlled the path with VMS. The reason I know this is that I personally interviewed with David Cutler for the position of Unix Product Manager for his new operating system. The interview was going fine until I tried to explain to Dave why his strategy was wrong and he had to make the Unix side really compatible. Then things got ugly, as David really did not like to be told he was wrong. Ken did have the bad habit of cutting off Dave's development money, then giving it back to him again. I seem to remember that Dave was still going full steam ahead while the PMAX was being developed, which is one reason why he was caught so flat-footed when PMAX was announced. It was kept REALLY SECRET. It probably did not help that Ken reportedly asked David in a gleeful tone if the new chip would be as fast as the PMAX.... "Will it be THIS FAST, Dave?" was the reported question. It is also my belief that the Alpha chip came directly from Dave's work on the PRISM, and that Windows NT came directly from David's work on the microkernel with personalities. DEC never "decided to go with MIPS" except as a stop-gap measure for Unix. If DEC had "decided to go with MIPS" they would have ported VMS to it, and since that never happened, it was obvious that DEC had not embraced MIPS. md On Sat, Jul 6, 2024 at 3:27 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: > >>>>> "Jon" == Jon \"maddog\" Hall via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > The DECstation 3100 (aka the PMAX) was a system based on the same > > motherboard as the VAXstation 3100, except with a MIPS processor. > > It was the first time that Digital had built a system using another > > company's chip architecture. > > That's an interesting statement. I would think it was the same case > and port setup, but a different motherboard since you couldn't just > slot a MIPS processor into a VAXstation processor. > > > We had a choice between supporting the MIPS R2000 chip as "big > > endian" or "little endian". We chose to support "little endian" to > > be compatible with PDP-11s, VAXen and Intel chips, rather than be > > compatible with other manufacturers. This, in my mind, was very > > important since it let us share data over NFS and give greater > > compatibility with programs and libraries of applications already > > running on other Unix-like systems such as Ultrix, BSD, etc. Sun > > experienced this grief when they ported Solaris off the big endian > > Motorola and SPARC chips to little endian Intel. > > > One of the few issues of the DECstation 3100 (and 2100, known as the > > "PMIN" after that) was that the serial I/O port did not support > > hardware handshaking. To save a couple of pennies per system the > > VAX hardware designers determined that having full hardware modem > > control (DECstandard 52) on the board was not needed, because "very > > few workstation users hook a modem up to their serial line". What > > they meant was that "very few VMS workstation users hooked a modem > > up to their serial line", opting for DECnet to handle their > > networking. Therefore the pins necessary to support hardware modem > > control were missing from the DECstation product lines. > > Yes! It's coming back to me, the 3100s were horrible for serial, > though I think they had fixed it for the 5000 series systems, since > the DECstation 5000 and the DECserver 5100 were identical, except the > DECStation had a graphics card and cost 10-20% _less_ than the > DECstation 5000. So we bought DECStations and used them as servers. > :-) > > I used to live and breathe the DEC options catalog, which was > something like an inch thick book in purple (maybe blue? maybe changed > each year?) with all the various options and configurations you could > get. > > > Unix users, on the other hand, often had modems hooked up to their > > workstation, to handle cu(1), uucp(1) and other serial line > > protocols. We eventually got around this by better refining > > software modem control, but it was painful. > > The EE department had Sun 1s at WPI, and they have the 9600 baud > bitnet connection running of a VAX 11/780 at the time. > > > The proposal, design and release of the DECstation 3100 was a > > top-secret project inside of DEC, kept secret from even many people > > in the Digital Unix group in Nashua, New Hampshire. The > > development of the system was done in Palo Alto's WorkStation > > Engineering group and the software engineering was done in the > > Western Software Labs in Palo Alto, albeit by taking key engineers > > from the Nashua facility and transplanting them temporarily to Palo > > Alto. > > > The implementation was kept so secret that it caught Dave Cutler, > > then working on DEC's next-generation operating system and chips, by > > surprise when it debuted at a Board Meeting in Maynard, > > Massachusetts. Shortly after that board meeting Mr. Cutler left > > Digital and moved (with some of his team) to Microsoft. > > Do you think that was just the straw that broke the camel's back? > > > The DECstations only were manufactured for a couple of years, as the > > DEC Alpha processor replaced MIPS in Digital's lineup. Although > > originally promised that OSF/1 would be ported to the DECstation > > line, this port was dropped due to realizing that there would never > > be an application base to support the customers of a DECstation > > OSF/1 port. It was better for ISVs and customers to maintain the > > Ultrix base for the DECstations than to split the base into Ultrix > > and OSF/1. > > Yeah, we had a ton of DECstations and a bunch of various early model > Alphas at WPI which we beta tested for DEC. The AS2100 with 8 DEC > StorageWorks canisters (which Netapp used on their early F220, F330, > F740 NAS systems) holding 3.5" disks, dual ported, hot-swapable. Nice > gear. > > The move from Ultrix to DEC OSF/1 was a bit painful, but not terrible > as I recall, but I'm sure I've blocked all the bad memories from then. > > Thanks for the walk down memory lane! > John >

July 7, 2024

Re: DECStation 3100 on a RPi2040...

by Michael Voorhis

On 7/6/24 3:27 PM, John Stoffel via WLUG wrote: > Yeah, we had a ton of DECstations and a bunch of various early model > Alphas at WPI which we beta tested for DEC. I have one of these CPUs in my office. --MCV.

July 6, 2024

Re: DECStation 3100 on a RPi2040...

by David Glaser

>> The implementation was kept so secret that it caught Dave Cutler, >> then working on DEC's next-generation operating system and chips, by >> surprise when it debuted at a Board Meeting in Maynard, >> Massachusetts. Shortly after that board meeting Mr. Cutler left >> Digital and moved (with some of his team) to Microsoft. > Do you think that was just the straw that broke the camel's back? > Actually, Cutler was already in trouble with management because of the Prism project. Prism was the first try at building a RISC machine (this was in the 1985-1986 time frame) and it was managed by Dave Cutler. Unfortunately, Dave was not a good administrator. He was doing a very bad job of managing the project and doing a very bad job of keeping management up to date on what was going on. Finally, management cancelled Prism and that is when they decided to go with the MIPS architecture. Dave was trying to rehabilitate himself but the DECStation 3100 basically yanked the rug from under him -- among other things. The adoption of the MIPS architecture caused a lot of grumbling and unhappiness with the troops because of the NIH factor. This in turn allowed Bob Palmer and others to push for a new try at a RISC architecture and thus the Alpha was born. Unfortunately, Alpha took up a lot of resources (hardware design, software, semiconductor) that should have been used elsewhere - e.g., Concentrate of MIPS for high end and intel or motorola for the low end, Ultrix instead of OSF, etc. The Hudson facility (along with disk drives) was a real money sink. Bob Palmer came from the manufacturing side and I think he loathed dismantling DECs vertical integration. When the board of directors told him to preserve shareholder equity, he then started to sell off pieces of the company which started dismantling the vertical integration. But then it was too late. -David

July 6, 2024

Re: DECStation 3100 on a RPi2040...

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Jon" == Jon \"maddog\" Hall via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > The DECstation 3100 (aka the PMAX) was a system based on the same > motherboard as the VAXstation 3100, except with a MIPS processor. > It was the first time that Digital had built a system using another > company's chip architecture. That's an interesting statement. I would think it was the same case and port setup, but a different motherboard since you couldn't just slot a MIPS processor into a VAXstation processor. > We had a choice between supporting the MIPS R2000 chip as "big > endian" or "little endian". We chose to support "little endian" to > be compatible with PDP-11s, VAXen and Intel chips, rather than be > compatible with other manufacturers. This, in my mind, was very > important since it let us share data over NFS and give greater > compatibility with programs and libraries of applications already > running on other Unix-like systems such as Ultrix, BSD, etc. Sun > experienced this grief when they ported Solaris off the big endian > Motorola and SPARC chips to little endian Intel. > One of the few issues of the DECstation 3100 (and 2100, known as the > "PMIN" after that) was that the serial I/O port did not support > hardware handshaking. To save a couple of pennies per system the > VAX hardware designers determined that having full hardware modem > control (DECstandard 52) on the board was not needed, because "very > few workstation users hook a modem up to their serial line". What > they meant was that "very few VMS workstation users hooked a modem > up to their serial line", opting for DECnet to handle their > networking. Therefore the pins necessary to support hardware modem > control were missing from the DECstation product lines. Yes! It's coming back to me, the 3100s were horrible for serial, though I think they had fixed it for the 5000 series systems, since the DECstation 5000 and the DECserver 5100 were identical, except the DECStation had a graphics card and cost 10-20% _less_ than the DECstation 5000. So we bought DECStations and used them as servers. :-) I used to live and breathe the DEC options catalog, which was something like an inch thick book in purple (maybe blue? maybe changed each year?) with all the various options and configurations you could get. > Unix users, on the other hand, often had modems hooked up to their > workstation, to handle cu(1), uucp(1) and other serial line > protocols. We eventually got around this by better refining > software modem control, but it was painful. The EE department had Sun 1s at WPI, and they have the 9600 baud bitnet connection running of a VAX 11/780 at the time. > The proposal, design and release of the DECstation 3100 was a > top-secret project inside of DEC, kept secret from even many people > in the Digital Unix group in Nashua, New Hampshire. The > development of the system was done in Palo Alto's WorkStation > Engineering group and the software engineering was done in the > Western Software Labs in Palo Alto, albeit by taking key engineers > from the Nashua facility and transplanting them temporarily to Palo > Alto. > The implementation was kept so secret that it caught Dave Cutler, > then working on DEC's next-generation operating system and chips, by > surprise when it debuted at a Board Meeting in Maynard, > Massachusetts. Shortly after that board meeting Mr. Cutler left > Digital and moved (with some of his team) to Microsoft. Do you think that was just the straw that broke the camel's back? > The DECstations only were manufactured for a couple of years, as the > DEC Alpha processor replaced MIPS in Digital's lineup. Although > originally promised that OSF/1 would be ported to the DECstation > line, this port was dropped due to realizing that there would never > be an application base to support the customers of a DECstation > OSF/1 port. It was better for ISVs and customers to maintain the > Ultrix base for the DECstations than to split the base into Ultrix > and OSF/1. Yeah, we had a ton of DECstations and a bunch of various early model Alphas at WPI which we beta tested for DEC. The AS2100 with 8 DEC StorageWorks canisters (which Netapp used on their early F220, F330, F740 NAS systems) holding 3.5" disks, dual ported, hot-swapable. Nice gear. The move from Ultrix to DEC OSF/1 was a bit painful, but not terrible as I recall, but I'm sure I've blocked all the bad memories from then. Thanks for the walk down memory lane! John

July 6, 2024

You-Do-It Founder

by gmcaplan＠gmcaplan.org

https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/bostonglobe/name/john-ahigian-obituary…

July 6, 2024

Re: DECStation 3100 on a RPi2040...

by Jon "maddog" Hall

The DECstation 3100 (aka the PMAX) was a system based on the same motherboard as the VAXstation 3100, except with a MIPS processor. It was the first time that Digital had built a system using another company's chip architecture. We had a choice between supporting the MIPS R2000 chip as "big endian" or "little endian". We chose to support "little endian" to be compatible with PDP-11s, VAXen and Intel chips, rather than be compatible with other manufacturers. This, in my mind, was very important since it let us share data over NFS and give greater compatibility with programs and libraries of applications already running on other Unix-like systems such as Ultrix, BSD, etc. Sun experienced this grief when they ported Solaris off the big endian Motorola and SPARC chips to little endian Intel. One of the few issues of the DECstation 3100 (and 2100, known as the "PMIN" after that) was that the serial I/O port did not support hardware handshaking. To save a couple of pennies per system the VAX hardware designers determined that having full hardware modem control (DECstandard 52) on the board was not needed, because "very few workstation users hook a modem up to their serial line". What they meant was that "very few VMS workstation users hooked a modem up to their serial line", opting for DECnet to handle their networking. Therefore the pins necessary to support hardware modem control were missing from the DECstation product lines. Unix users, on the other hand, often had modems hooked up to their workstation, to handle cu(1), uucp(1) and other serial line protocols. We eventually got around this by better refining software modem control, but it was painful. The proposal, design and release of the DECstation 3100 was a top-secret project inside of DEC, kept secret from even many people in the Digital Unix group in Nashua, New Hampshire. The development of the system was done in Palo Alto's WorkStation Engineering group and the software engineering was done in the Western Software Labs in Palo Alto, albeit by taking key engineers from the Nashua facility and transplanting them temporarily to Palo Alto. The implementation was kept so secret that it caught Dave Cutler, then working on DEC's next-generation operating system and chips, by surprise when it debuted at a Board Meeting in Maynard, Massachusetts. Shortly after that board meeting Mr. Cutler left Digital and moved (with some of his team) to Microsoft. The DECstations only were manufactured for a couple of years, as the DEC Alpha processor replaced MIPS in Digital's lineup. Although originally promised that OSF/1 would be ported to the DECstation line, this port was dropped due to realizing that there would never be an application base to support the customers of a DECstation OSF/1 port. It was better for ISVs and customers to maintain the Ultrix base for the DECstations than to split the base into Ultrix and OSF/1. md On Fri, Jul 5, 2024 at 9:02 AM John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > My first real Unix workstation, reduced. > > https://github.com/rscott2049/DECstation2040 > > This brings back memories. I think they had 8mb of RAM and 525Mb > 5 1/4" full height hard drives in external SCSI enclosures way back in > the late 80s.... > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/W47HD… >

July 5, 2024

DECStation 3100 on a RPi2040...

by John Stoffel

My first real Unix workstation, reduced. https://github.com/rscott2049/DECstation2040 This brings back memories. I think they had 8mb of RAM and 525Mb 5 1/4" full height hard drives in external SCSI enclosures way back in the late 80s....

July 5, 2024

Re: You-Do-It Electronics is dead, long live You-Do-It Electronics

by Tim Keller

Sadly I only went to You Do it once and it was really amazing. It was before the pandemic in their full glory. My co-worker is a big ham guy and he needed some stuff to repair a couple radios as well as some connectors for his various antennas. He was in there all the time and immediately was greeted by a sales guy who dove right into a deep conversation about dipole yaggi's, etc. I wandered the aisles, just amazed. They had a pretty decent 3d printing corner as well. Sadly, I think the market for building your own electronics is continuously shrinking. Tim. On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 2:46 PM John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >>>>> "gmcaplan---" == gmcaplan--- via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > They're gone already, it was pretty quick, I missed being able to make > a trip too. > > > This is terrible news! Have they closed already? I was planning to > > go there on Tuesday (July 2) when I have a medical appt. in > > Newton. They were probably destroyed by the Web, BUT their location > > was not ideal. The traffic in that area was horrible. > > > On 2024-06-28 4:53 pm, Jeff Moyer via WLUG wrote: > >> Hi, David, > >> > >> David Glaser via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > >> > >>> You-Do-It Electronics went out of business. It was a very nice > >>> resource. Does anyone know of a similar electronics store that is > >>> within a 1 hour drive of Woosta? > >> > >> That is sad. I don't know of another store that is as big as > >> You-Do-It, but there is Electronics Plus in Littleton: > >> http://www.electronicsplus.com/ > >> > >> They are more like a radioshack in terms of size and inventory. > >> > >> -Jeff > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > >> Change Settings: > >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > >> Web Forum/Archive: > >> > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/WSZ6C… > > _______________________________________________ > > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DPXGK… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/KWIQU… > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

July 2, 2024

Re: Keeping your package manager happy in Ubuntu and Debian -- from prior upgrade discussion

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Voorhis via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: Mike puts out some great info, but I just want to make a single comment here, because my main system at home has gone from Debian 9 (I think!) to 10, 11 and now 12. Lots of cruft has built up over the years, and this was a great set of commands to help clean stuff out. > Does your machine harbor software not attached to any software repo? > (these are AKA "Obsolete packages") Learn the shocking truth: > aptitude show '~o' | grep Package | awk '{print $2}' | sort | fmt This really needs to be: aptitude show '~o' | grep Package: | awk '{print $2}' | sort | fmt because sometimes aptitude shows package info across two or more lines.

July 2, 2024

Re: You-Do-It Electronics is dead, long live You-Do-It Electronics

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "gmcaplan---" == gmcaplan--- via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: They're gone already, it was pretty quick, I missed being able to make a trip too. > This is terrible news! Have they closed already? I was planning to > go there on Tuesday (July 2) when I have a medical appt. in > Newton. They were probably destroyed by the Web, BUT their location > was not ideal. The traffic in that area was horrible. > On 2024-06-28 4:53 pm, Jeff Moyer via WLUG wrote: >> Hi, David, >> >> David Glaser via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> >>> You-Do-It Electronics went out of business. It was a very nice >>> resource. Does anyone know of a similar electronics store that is >>> within a 1 hour drive of Woosta? >> >> That is sad. I don't know of another store that is as big as >> You-Do-It, but there is Electronics Plus in Littleton: >> http://www.electronicsplus.com/ >> >> They are more like a radioshack in terms of size and inventory. >> >> -Jeff >> >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/WSZ6C… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DPXGK…

July 2, 2024

Keeping your package manager happy in Ubuntu and Debian -- from prior upgrade discussion

by Michael Voorhis

On 7/1/24 9:34 PM, gmcaplan--- via WLUG wrote: > John, Thank you for your help with my recent Linux problems. Sorry I > did not say anything sooner. I'm coming late to this discussion; sorry about that. Re: "old packages from a previous upgrade" ... in Ubuntu, the "do-release-upgrade" script is supposed to clear those out. But if do-release-upgrade crashes out, people can get lost as they don't know how to duke it out with the package manager. My standard "update the software" in Ubuntu/Debian looks for deletable and orphan packages specifically. Nuking orphan stuff and removing old cruft beforehand, is THE WAY to make your upgrades work better. The only other source of complication is old additional software repos in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/[...] which are NOT supported in the OS release you're upgrading INTO. Does your package manager want you to delete stuff? dpkg -l | grep '^r' | awk '{print $2}' | sort | fmt ... this command should return no output if your system is clean. Does your machine harbor software not attached to any software repo? (these are AKA "Obsolete packages") Learn the shocking truth: aptitude show '~o' | grep Package | awk '{print $2}' | sort | fmt ... this command should also produce no output on a happy machine, other than perhaps one-shot .deb files installed from downloads (i.e., if you download the zoom client by hand and install that without using a repo, etc). The more cruft, the worse your major-version-upgrade experience will be. The upgrade is performed entirely by the package manager, so that part of your OS needs to be happy before you can start an upgrade with confidence. --MCV.

July 2, 2024

Re: Seeking Ubuntu Help

by gmcaplan＠gmcaplan.org

John, Thank you for your help with my recent Linux problems. Sorry I did not say anything sooner. George Caplan On 2024-06-26 9:39 pm, John Stoffel via WLUG wrote: >>>>>> "gmcaplan---" == gmcaplan--- via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >>>>>> writes: > >> I hope one or more of you can help me. >> I upgraded today from Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to 20.04 LTS on my desktop >> computer. (I know I am way behind, but I can do this only in the >> summer >> etc., etc.) >> I used the built-in Ubuntu update feature. >> It worked better than I expected and took less that two hours. The >> data >> backups I did ahead of time took much longer. > >> Anyway, 20.04 is running but I have two problems. > >> Number One: > >> Many terminal commands give this message: >> Errors were encountered while processing: >> linux-image-4.15.0-212-generic >> Processing was halted because there were too many errors. >> W: Can not find PkgVer for 'linux-image-extra-4.4.0-122-generic' >> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) > >> In particular, here is what happens when I try to remove 4.4.0-212. > >> sudo apt-get --purge remove linux-image-extra-4.4.0-212-generic >> Reading package lists... Done >> Building dependency tree >> Reading state information... Done >> E: Unable to locate package linux-image-extra-4.4.0-212-generic >> E: Couldn't find any package by glob >> 'linux-image-extra-4.4.0-212-generic' >> E: Couldn't find any package by regex >> 'linux-image-extra-4.4.0-212-generic' > > This is funky. I suspect that you have an old package from a previous > upgrade, did you come from Ubuntu 16.x or earlier on this same system? > > You might try to run the following, all as root or with sudo: > > apt clean > apt update > apt install --fix-missing > apt upgrade > > and see what each command says. So please share the full and complete > outputs. You might also be able to do: > > apt purge linux-image-extra-4.4.0-212-generic > > But maybe you can share the output of: > > dpkg-query -l | grep linux-image-extra > > and see if that package is listed and share with us the full details? >> From the looks of it, you DID do a previous upgrade from Ubuntu 16.0 > at some point, but didn't didn't do: > > apt autoremove > > once you finished the ugprade to 18.x, but I think we can make this > work with a bit of finagling. > > Also, please look at these instructions, and once we get this fixed, > I'm going to suggest you go right to 22.04 LTS, and then just stick > with LTS versions if you can't upgrade very often. > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades > > But the last thing to try, if none of the above works might be to do: > > dpkg --purge --force-remove-reinstreq > linux-image-extra-4.4.0-212-generic > > and see if _that_ does the trick. > > John > > > > >> Number Two: > >> I cannot get audio out of Line Out to my speakers. And I cannot get >> audio into Line In to make recordings. I *do* get audio from the audio >> output on my HDMI monitor. This might be related to the need for >> codecs, >> but when I try various terminal commands to load more codecs, I get >> problem Number 1 ! > > Yeah, let's fix your apt-repo, which seems to be in a wierd state. But > maybe you can also post what your hardware is, including the output > of: > > lspci > >> Some of what I read on the Web mentions tex files that could cause >> Number 1. I do have TeXstudio installed. I tried to uninstall >> texstudio and texlive, but when I do that, I get the message ant >> Number One! > > Yeah, I doubt that's the problem, but we'll try to help here. > > Do you have any special stuff in /etc/apt/sources.list or do you have > any extra file in > > ls /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ > > and what I'd probably do is remove all extra sources in there for now, > just to make sure things are ok. > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/Y23FW…

July 2, 2024

Re: You-Do-It Electronics is dead, long live You-Do-It Electronics

by joel d

Was last in you-do-it May 17 when travels took me nearby. Store was about 80 percent empty then. Sign of the times. Going forward we all plan weeks ahead with free shipping things from China. Joel On June 29, 2024 10:30:27 AM David Glaser via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hi Jeff, > > June 12th was the last day. > > -David > > On 6/29/2024 9:38 AM, gmcaplan--- via WLUG wrote: >> This is terrible news! Have they closed already? >> I was planning to go there on Tuesday (July 2) when I have a medical >> appt. in Newton. They were probably destroyed by the Web, BUT their >> location was not ideal. The traffic in that area was horrible. >> >> On 2024-06-28 4:53 pm, Jeff Moyer via WLUG wrote: >>> Hi, David, >>> >>> David Glaser via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >>> >>>> You-Do-It Electronics went out of business. It was a very nice >>>> resource. Does anyone know of a similar electronics store that is >>>> within a 1 hour drive of Woosta? >>> >>> That is sad. I don't know of another store that is as big as >>> You-Do-It, but there is Electronics Plus in Littleton: >>> http://www.electronicsplus.com/ >>> >>> They are more like a radioshack in terms of size and inventory. >>> >>> -Jeff >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/WSZ6C… >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DPXGK… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/Y3SIV…

June 29, 2024

Re: You-Do-It Electronics is dead, long live You-Do-It Electronics

by David Glaser

Hi Jeff, June 12th was the last day. -David On 6/29/2024 9:38 AM, gmcaplan--- via WLUG wrote: > This is terrible news! Have they closed already? > I was planning to go there on Tuesday (July 2) when I have a medical > appt. in Newton. They were probably destroyed by the Web, BUT their > location was not ideal. The traffic in that area was horrible. > > On 2024-06-28 4:53 pm, Jeff Moyer via WLUG wrote: >> Hi, David, >> >> David Glaser via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> >>> You-Do-It Electronics went out of business. It was a very nice >>> resource. Does anyone know of a similar electronics store that is >>> within a 1 hour drive of Woosta? >> >> That is sad. I don't know of another store that is as big as >> You-Do-It, but there is Electronics Plus in Littleton: >> http://www.electronicsplus.com/ >> >> They are more like a radioshack in terms of size and inventory. >> >> -Jeff >> >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/WSZ6C… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DPXGK…

June 29, 2024

Re: You-Do-It Electronics is dead, long live You-Do-It Electronics

by gmcaplan＠gmcaplan.org

This is terrible news! Have they closed already? I was planning to go there on Tuesday (July 2) when I have a medical appt. in Newton. They were probably destroyed by the Web, BUT their location was not ideal. The traffic in that area was horrible. On 2024-06-28 4:53 pm, Jeff Moyer via WLUG wrote: > Hi, David, > > David Glaser via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > >> You-Do-It Electronics went out of business. It was a very nice >> resource. Does anyone know of a similar electronics store that is >> within a 1 hour drive of Woosta? > > That is sad. I don't know of another store that is as big as > You-Do-It, but there is Electronics Plus in Littleton: > http://www.electronicsplus.com/ > > They are more like a radioshack in terms of size and inventory. > > -Jeff > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/WSZ6C…

June 29, 2024

Re: You-Do-It Electronics is dead, long live You-Do-It Electronics

by John Stoffel

I’ll second electronics plus as well, but not sure how much long Fran will keep it running… Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 28, 2024, at 4:01 PM, Jeff Moyer via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Hi, David, > > David Glaser via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > >> You-Do-It Electronics went out of business. It was a very nice >> resource. Does anyone know of a similar electronics store that is >> within a 1 hour drive of Woosta? > > That is sad. I don't know of another store that is as big as > You-Do-It, but there is Electronics Plus in Littleton: > http://www.electronicsplus.com/ > > They are more like a radioshack in terms of size and inventory. > > -Jeff > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/WSZ6C…

June 28, 2024

Re: You-Do-It Electronics is dead, long live You-Do-It Electronics

by Jeff Moyer

Hi, David, David Glaser via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > You-Do-It Electronics went out of business. It was a very nice > resource. Does anyone know of a similar electronics store that is > within a 1 hour drive of Woosta? That is sad. I don't know of another store that is as big as You-Do-It, but there is Electronics Plus in Littleton: http://www.electronicsplus.com/ They are more like a radioshack in terms of size and inventory. -Jeff

June 28, 2024

You-Do-It Electronics is dead, long live You-Do-It Electronics

by David Glaser

You-Do-It Electronics went out of business. It was a very nice resource. Does anyone know of a similar electronics store that is within a 1 hour drive of Woosta? -David

June 28, 2024

Problems Solved

by gmcaplan＠gmcaplan.org

I used grub-customizer to remove image 212 from grub. hat solved the error problem. Then a removed and re-installed alsa-base and pulseaudio. Now sound works.

June 27, 2024

Re: Seeking Ubuntu Help

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "gmcaplan---" == gmcaplan--- via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > I hope one or more of you can help me. > I upgraded today from Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to 20.04 LTS on my desktop > computer. (I know I am way behind, but I can do this only in the summer > etc., etc.) > I used the built-in Ubuntu update feature. > It worked better than I expected and took less that two hours. The data > backups I did ahead of time took much longer. > Anyway, 20.04 is running but I have two problems. > Number One: > Many terminal commands give this message: > Errors were encountered while processing: > linux-image-4.15.0-212-generic > Processing was halted because there were too many errors. > W: Can not find PkgVer for 'linux-image-extra-4.4.0-122-generic' > E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) > In particular, here is what happens when I try to remove 4.4.0-212. > sudo apt-get --purge remove linux-image-extra-4.4.0-212-generic > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > E: Unable to locate package linux-image-extra-4.4.0-212-generic > E: Couldn't find any package by glob > 'linux-image-extra-4.4.0-212-generic' > E: Couldn't find any package by regex > 'linux-image-extra-4.4.0-212-generic' This is funky. I suspect that you have an old package from a previous upgrade, did you come from Ubuntu 16.x or earlier on this same system? You might try to run the following, all as root or with sudo: apt clean apt update apt install --fix-missing apt upgrade and see what each command says. So please share the full and complete outputs. You might also be able to do: apt purge linux-image-extra-4.4.0-212-generic But maybe you can share the output of: dpkg-query -l | grep linux-image-extra and see if that package is listed and share with us the full details? From the looks of it, you DID do a previous upgrade from Ubuntu 16.0 at some point, but didn't didn't do: apt autoremove once you finished the ugprade to 18.x, but I think we can make this work with a bit of finagling. Also, please look at these instructions, and once we get this fixed, I'm going to suggest you go right to 22.04 LTS, and then just stick with LTS versions if you can't upgrade very often. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades But the last thing to try, if none of the above works might be to do: dpkg --purge --force-remove-reinstreq linux-image-extra-4.4.0-212-generic and see if _that_ does the trick. John > Number Two: > I cannot get audio out of Line Out to my speakers. And I cannot get > audio into Line In to make recordings. I *do* get audio from the audio > output on my HDMI monitor. This might be related to the need for codecs, > but when I try various terminal commands to load more codecs, I get > problem Number 1 ! Yeah, let's fix your apt-repo, which seems to be in a wierd state. But maybe you can also post what your hardware is, including the output of: lspci > Some of what I read on the Web mentions tex files that could cause > Number 1. I do have TeXstudio installed. I tried to uninstall > texstudio and texlive, but when I do that, I get the message ant > Number One! Yeah, I doubt that's the problem, but we'll try to help here. Do you have any special stuff in /etc/apt/sources.list or do you have any extra file in ls /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ and what I'd probably do is remove all extra sources in there for now, just to make sure things are ok.

June 27, 2024

Seeking Ubuntu Help

by gmcaplan＠gmcaplan.org

I hope one or more of you can help me. I upgraded today from Ubuntu 18.04 LTS to 20.04 LTS on my desktop computer. (I know I am way behind, but I can do this only in the summer etc., etc.) I used the built-in Ubuntu update feature. It worked better than I expected and took less that two hours. The data backups I did ahead of time took much longer. Anyway, 20.04 is running but I have two problems. Number One: Many terminal commands give this message: Errors were encountered while processing: linux-image-4.15.0-212-generic Processing was halted because there were too many errors. W: Can not find PkgVer for 'linux-image-extra-4.4.0-122-generic' E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) In particular, here is what happens when I try to remove 4.4.0-212. sudo apt-get --purge remove linux-image-extra-4.4.0-212-generic Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done E: Unable to locate package linux-image-extra-4.4.0-212-generic E: Couldn't find any package by glob 'linux-image-extra-4.4.0-212-generic' E: Couldn't find any package by regex 'linux-image-extra-4.4.0-212-generic' Number Two: I cannot get audio out of Line Out to my speakers. And I cannot get audio into Line In to make recordings. I *do* get audio from the audio output on my HDMI monitor. This might be related to the need for codecs, but when I try various terminal commands to load more codecs, I get problem Number 1 ! Some of what I read on the Web mentions tex files that could cause Number 1. I do have TeXstudio installed. I tried to uninstall texstudio and texlive, but when I do that, I get the message ant Number One! I'd appreciate any help or suggestions. Thank you. George Caplan email: gmcaplan(a)gmcaplan.org Phone: 978-263-5288 (landline, no texts)

June 26, 2024

Re: LLM's and graphical interfaces.

by John Stoffel

Jansen, Thanks for posting this tutorial! I don't have any nVidia hardware at home so I'll have to try and spin this up in the cloud somewhere. Won't get much of a chance to poke at this until the next meeting. Will we see you and your wife there by any chance? John

June 25, 2024

Re: LLM's and graphical interfaces.

by Jansen Smith

I made a mild how-to, for replicating my setup. Please note that the Nvidia driver setup is a SEPARATE "huge deal" that is out of scope for this how-to. You'll know the system is working if you see action in response to a prompt while running nvtop: I run the open-webui stack found here: https://github.com/open-webui/open-webui In order to have ollama (the LLM backend) available for my other fun projects and to ensure that the GPU is utilized by ollama, make sure you run the api and gpu compose files: docker compose -f docker-compose.yaml -f docker-compose.api.yaml -f docker-compose.gpu.yaml up -d --build I've catted my own versions of these files below: (base) house@chonkers:~/open-webui$ cat docker-compose.gpu.yaml services: ollama: # GPU support deploy: resources: reservations: devices: - driver: ${OLLAMA_GPU_DRIVER-nvidia} count: all capabilities: - gpu (base) house@chonkers:~/open-webui$ cat docker-compose.api.yaml version: '3.8' services: ollama: # Expose Ollama API outside the container stack ports: - ${OLLAMA_WEBAPI_PORT-11434}:11434 (base) house@chonkers:~/open-webui$ cat docker-compose.yaml version: '3.8' services: ollama: volumes: - ollama:/root/.ollama container_name: ollama pull_policy: always tty: true restart: unless-stopped image: ollama/ollama:${OLLAMA_DOCKER_TAG-latest} open-webui: build: context: . args: OLLAMA_BASE_URL: '/ollama' dockerfile: Dockerfile image: ghcr.io/open-webui/open-webui:${WEBUI_DOCKER_TAG-main} container_name: open-webui volumes: - open-webui:/app/backend/data depends_on: - ollama ports: - 3131:8080 environment: - 'OLLAMA_BASE_URL=http://ollama:11434' - 'WEBUI_SECRET_KEY=' extra_hosts: - host.docker.internal:host-gateway restart: unless-stopped volumes: ollama: {} open-webui: {} (base) house@chonkers:~/open-webui$ On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 11:48 AM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: > > Thanks for sending out this info Jansen, now to find time to actually > play with this stuff! > > > (can this email address be added to the mailing list?) > > > the self-hosted webui i use is here: > > https://github.com/open-webui/open-webui > > > ollama! > > https://github.com/ollama/ollama > > > here's the docker for ollama: > > https://hub.docker.com/r/ollama/ollama > > > On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 5:32 PM Kevin Harrington < > mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > > From: Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > > Date: Tue, May 14, 2024, 4:49 PM > > Subject: [WLUG] LLM's and graphical interfaces. > > To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > > Cc: Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> > > > A couple meetings ago Jansen showed up a really cool graphical > interface for LLM. > > > Does anybody remember what it was? > > > Thanks, > > Tim. > > > -- > > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as > > "consumers". > > _______________________________________________ > > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > > Web Forum/Archive: > > > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/XVOQB… > > _______________________________________________ > > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/4ZQIW… >

June 23, 2024

This is for Brendan! Running VMs with GPU pass through

by John Stoffel

I haven't spent any time on this, but saw this article and thought of Brendan right off the bat. https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/19/proxmox_xcp_ng_gpu_passthrough/ This might be what he needs to run stuff at home on his GPU pass-through attempts. John

June 21, 2024

Re: Reminder: Meeting June 13th 2024 at 7PM! Topic: Your own personal LLM!

by John Stoffel

Hi all, I think we had a good meeting last night, it was certainly neat seeing how well ollama2 and ollama3 are at answering questions. It was also interesting to see how it could start going off the rails a little bit when asked interesting questions, because it couldn't (in my mind!) reason about things properly. Can you tell I'm an AI skeptic in some ways? It will make big changes at some point, but I don't think it will be as much as people think right away. It's still on the hype phase, and we haven't gotten to the reality crash yet. So hopefully we'll get some more details posted so we can all play around with ollama3 on our own systems. It's a bummer I can't use my AMD GPUs since that's all I have, no nVidia stuff at all in my house. And for next month, what do people want to talk about? I can try to resurrect my talk on KiCad, updated for v8 that was released ealier this year. Or I can talk about 'duc' which is the software package I help maintain. It's for indexing large large filesystems and displaying disk usage via CLI, GUI or web pages. It's really useful for when you have a 12Tb filesystem with 30 million files, because plain 'du' just takes way too long. https://github.com/zevv/duc is where you can find it. It's been quiet for a long time, but I've been recently getting ready to update and push out a new release. Hopefully this month if I'm lucky! John

June 14, 2024

Re: Reminder: Meeting June 13th 2024 at 7PM! Topic: Your own personal LLM!

by Keith Wright

Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > We've got a meeting tomorrow!! > Date/Time: June 13th 2024 @ 7pm. > Virtual Location: (back to the old haunt) https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Tried a few times to get in between 6:55 -- 7:10. It asks for permission to share mike/video I say yes, it asks do I want to be moderator, I say no, it says you will get in when someone lets you in and displays the circling circle.... I'll try again. Then give up. -- Keith

June 13, 2024

Re: LLM's and graphical interfaces.

by John Stoffel

I'm on the jitsi.org meeting, but the only one right now. More are welcome to join Tim and I! Tim is running late...

June 13, 2024

Re: LLM's and graphical interfaces.

by John Stoffel

Thanks for sending out this info Jansen, now to find time to actually play with this stuff! > (can this email address be added to the mailing list?) > the self-hosted webui i use is here: > https://github.com/open-webui/open-webui > ollama! > https://github.com/ollama/ollama > here's the docker for ollama: > https://hub.docker.com/r/ollama/ollama > On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 5:32 PM Kevin Harrington <mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > Date: Tue, May 14, 2024, 4:49 PM > Subject: [WLUG] LLM's and graphical interfaces. > To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > Cc: Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> > A couple meetings ago Jansen showed up a really cool graphical interface for LLM. > Does anybody remember what it was? > Thanks, > Tim. > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as > "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/XVOQB… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/4ZQIW…

June 13, 2024

Reminder: Meeting June 13th 2024 at 7PM! Topic: Your own personal LLM!

by Tim Keller

Hey Gang! We've got a meeting tomorrow!! Date/Time: June 13th 2024 @ 7pm. Location: Technocopia, 44 Portland St, 6th floor, Worcester MA. Virtual Location: (back to the old haunt) https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA <https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA> Considering how much AI has been in the news, I thought it would be cool to do a talk/demo about setting up your own personal Large Language Model! I'll either use my laptop of scrounge up a piece of good enough hardware to show it off.. hell I could even spin up a droplet and run it somewhere.. we'll figure that out. Jansen sent me some links to the cool stuff he uses and I'll definitely be leaning on his expertise and others. Here's what he wrote: the self-hosted webui i use is here: https://github.com/open-webui/open-webui ollama! https://github.com/ollama/ollama here's the docker for ollama: https://hub.docker.com/r/ollama/ollama I've experimented with the ollama models and they're cool. As usual we'll nerd out, wrestle with some LLM stuff and have a great time. Afterwards we'll head off to the Boyton or somewhere else for some dinner and keep the geekery in full swing. I'll bring some snacks and refreshments as well. Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

June 12, 2024

Re: Hey Everybody! WLUG Meeting this week!

by Gregory Boyce

On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 6:01 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: > >>>>> "Gregory" == Gregory Boyce <gregory.boyce(a)gmail.com> writes: > > > On Mon, Jun 10, 2024, 2:42 PM John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> writes: > > >> Currently we're having issues getting the Turing Pi 2 to boot, so > >> doing a show off of Proxmox I could definitely do as well. > > > I'ev got proxmox running at owkr with some basic VMs on it for > > testing. I might be able to show it off doing some basic stuff like > > live migrations. > > > I recently switched my home server to proxmox, and I've been > > spending time using terraform and packer to build and deploy VMs. > > Are you running a cluster or just one system? I've got a three node > cluster at $WORK, but thinking of looking at their SCALE product. But > of course while VMware is going to shaft us pricewise, the manglement > might not want to leave the devil they know. Just a single system at the moment. Another issue is deploying OVA files. I find that ProxMOX is a pain > in terms of .iso and .ova files, you need to first add them into it's > own repository, then you can deploy from them. VMware just lets you > browse for the files and deploy. > Yeah, that makes sense. The interface isn't especially user friendly either. It takes me a while to remember where the interface for uploading ISO files is whenever I need to use it. That's one thing that Scale Computing does well. The interface for uploading images is pretty straightforward, and it will convert images from various formats for you automatically. Other than the current lack of support for compressed images. > Though I also admit that .ova deployments can be annoyingly tough, but > I'm running VCenter 7.0.x and a mix of ESXi 6.7 and 7.0 on my > systems. Legacy hardware which I can't move up. Another reason to > hate vendor designed stuff, it locks you in. > > > I'd be happy to share code if anyone is interested. > > Please do! > This is very much a work in progress as I work on learning the tools. https://gitlab.com/techstoa/proxmox -- Greg

June 11, 2024

Re: Hey Everybody! WLUG Meeting this week!

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Gregory" == Gregory Boyce <gregory.boyce(a)gmail.com> writes: > On Mon, Jun 10, 2024, 2:42 PM John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> writes: >> Currently we're having issues getting the Turing Pi 2 to boot, so >> doing a show off of Proxmox I could definitely do as well. > I'ev got proxmox running at owkr with some basic VMs on it for > testing. I might be able to show it off doing some basic stuff like > live migrations. > I recently switched my home server to proxmox, and I've been > spending time using terraform and packer to build and deploy VMs. Are you running a cluster or just one system? I've got a three node cluster at $WORK, but thinking of looking at their SCALE product. But of course while VMware is going to shaft us pricewise, the manglement might not want to leave the devil they know. Another issue is deploying OVA files. I find that ProxMOX is a pain in terms of .iso and .ova files, you need to first add them into it's own repository, then you can deploy from them. VMware just lets you browse for the files and deploy. Though I also admit that .ova deployments can be annoyingly tough, but I'm running VCenter 7.0.x and a mix of ESXi 6.7 and 7.0 on my systems. Legacy hardware which I can't move up. Another reason to hate vendor designed stuff, it locks you in. > I'd be happy to share code if anyone is interested. Please do!

June 10, 2024

Re: Hey Everybody! WLUG Meeting this week!

by Gregory Boyce

On Mon, Jun 10, 2024, 2:42 PM John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >>>>> "Tim" == Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> writes: > > > Currently we're having issues getting the Turing Pi 2 to boot, so > > doing a show off of Proxmox I could definitely do as well. > > I'ev got proxmox running at owkr with some basic VMs on it for > testing. I might be able to show it off doing some basic stuff like > live migrations. > I recently switched my home server to proxmox, and I've been spending time using terraform and packer to build and deploy VMs. I'd be happy to share code if anyone is interested. >

June 10, 2024

Re: We've got a meeting next week on the 13th!

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "soup" == soup via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: I suspect that now that Broadcom is releasing their new ARM CPU and MS is shipping windows on it, there will be alot more ARM based boards out there, and they should be pretty good for running linux. In my use case though, I'd be happy to run on ARM for my personal email hosting and simple web stuff, but it's the memory that's the killer. I want to get a Linode with more RAM (1gb just doesn't cut it when you try to run rspam...) so I can run postfix/dovecot/rspam and all the other stuff you need for doing email well these days. Stuff like setting up keys, DMARC, SPF, signing outgoing emails, re-signing forwarded emails, etc. It's honestly getting pretty damn tough to run your own mail server well these days. > Damn that's some metal. Pricing is up there for a workstation > though. It'll drop hopefully, especially with Win11 ARM on the > horizon. Much obliged for the info. > --- > soup > On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 4:19 PM Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote: > In my data center I've got a bunch of Ampere ARM servers and they're awesome. U.2 NVME, lots > of PCI slots, etc. > https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/everything-ive-learned-building-fast… > Tim. > On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 1:51 PM soup <soupforare(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Are there any shipping ARM boards/chips for the consumer market? Quick look just shows a > few ATX server boards with, relatively, ancient ARMs bundled. > The stuff Apple is shipping has the same T2 "problem" the later intel machines have with > running linux, it's kind of a pain, delicate, and ruins the point of having the hardware > security in the first place. It'd be amazing if they'd work on 1st party support but > considering their business model I don't see that ever happening. > On the server side, I'm loving ARM. I saw the revolution coming back when AWS Graviton was > first announced. Pushed a lot of things at work over early. With go binaries it's as > simple as a compile flag. Graviton2 offerings were ~1/3 off the equivalent intel machines > for EC2, similar discount for lambda. For some of our workloads they were faster than > intel too. Haven't had occasion to test the grav3 stuff but I imagine it's better still. > If you've got things in interpreted language, go, or projects that have been cross-arch > and stable a while- mariadb, postgresql, nginx, et al., definitely would suggest seeing > how it'd work for you. > --- > soup > On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 12:20 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Keith, > It wasn't just you. It seems that it maxes out at some low number of users.. why.. > worth investigating, but not at the expense of people being able to get into the > meeting. > Yeah, ARM for linux has been the "hotness" for a while. Pi definitely brought it to > the forefront, but now more and more there are viable arm desktops. > As for the AI, there are some FOSS solutions out there that are shockingly amazing. > "ollama" is just one of them. > No need to pay NVidia for AMD for the privilege. > Tim. > On Thu, Jun 6, 2024 at 1:58 PM Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us> wrote: > Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> We've got a meeting next week! Note, I won't be using our own Jitsi server >> but going to back to the old one since we've had so many issues. > I think part of the problem was with my micophone to webserver > interface. > At this point I am thinking of this more as a test than a meeting, > but I plan to do it. >> If there's a topic that people would like us to tackle, I'd be up for it! > I haven't been paying a lot of attention to the latest hardware, but > the radio said something about ARM processor that caught my attention. > ARM means rasberry pi means Linux, no? Wikipedia has an enormous > article (the Citations alone are 11 pages two column) but the last > thing on the page seems to say that Wine is no longer for playing > Windows games on Linux, but that MS needs it to prop up the ass end > of their sorry operating system. Is the monopoly gone? > The radio also speaks of Nvidia. They sell those Invidious graphics > cards. The ones that need special secret drivers that only work if > you have the right *.dll? It seems that everyone now needs them to > do Artifical Intelligence (all rise). Have they changed their attitude, > or is it like: "Here's your AI. Pay the monthly bill to retain your > licence to use it. Any attempt to try to find out what it does or > how it works will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law of > Connecticut."? > -- Keith > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as > "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/K35PA… > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as > "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BUVOG…

June 10, 2024

Re: Hey Everybody! WLUG Meeting this week!

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> writes: > Currently we're having issues getting the Turing Pi 2 to boot, so > doing a show off of Proxmox I could definitely do as well. I'ev got proxmox running at owkr with some basic VMs on it for testing. I might be able to show it off doing some basic stuff like live migrations. > I've got a three node setup as well as a backup node running at > work, but I don't have anything on it that I couldn't show the > world. Mine is strictly testing without anything it use that anyone could care about. I haven't spent that much time playing with it.

June 10, 2024

Re: We've got a meeting next week on the 13th!

by soup

Damn that's some metal. Pricing is up there for a workstation though. It'll drop hopefully, especially with Win11 ARM on the horizon. Much obliged for the info. --- soup On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 4:19 PM Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote: > In my data center I've got a bunch of Ampere ARM servers and they're > awesome. U.2 NVME, lots of PCI slots, etc. > > > https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/everything-ive-learned-building-fast… > > Tim. > > On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 1:51 PM soup <soupforare(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Are there any shipping ARM boards/chips for the consumer market? Quick >> look just shows a few ATX server boards with, relatively, ancient ARMs >> bundled. >> The stuff Apple is shipping has the same T2 "problem" the later intel >> machines have with running linux, it's kind of a pain, delicate, and ruins >> the point of having the hardware security in the first place. It'd be >> amazing if they'd work on 1st party support but considering their business >> model I don't see that ever happening. >> >> On the server side, I'm loving ARM. I saw the revolution coming back when >> AWS Graviton was first announced. Pushed a lot of things at work over >> early. With go binaries it's as simple as a compile flag. >> Graviton2 offerings were ~1/3 off the equivalent intel machines for EC2, >> similar discount for lambda. For some of our workloads they were faster >> than intel too. Haven't had occasion to test the grav3 stuff but I imagine >> it's better still. >> If you've got things in interpreted language, go, or projects that have >> been cross-arch and stable a while- mariadb, postgresql, nginx, et al., >> definitely would suggest seeing how it'd work for you. >> >> --- >> soup >> >> On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 12:20 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Keith, >>> >>> It wasn't just you. It seems that it maxes out at some low number of >>> users.. why.. worth investigating, but not at the expense of people being >>> able to get into the meeting. >>> >>> Yeah, ARM for linux has been the "hotness" for a while. Pi definitely >>> brought it to the forefront, but now more and more there are viable arm >>> desktops. >>> >>> As for the AI, there are some FOSS solutions out there that are >>> shockingly amazing. "ollama" is just one of them. >>> No need to pay NVidia for AMD for the privilege. >>> >>> Tim. >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 6, 2024 at 1:58 PM Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >>>> >>>> > We've got a meeting next week! Note, I won't be using our own Jitsi >>>> server >>>> > but going to back to the old one since we've had so many issues. >>>> >>>> I think part of the problem was with my micophone to webserver >>>> interface. >>>> >>>> At this point I am thinking of this more as a test than a meeting, >>>> but I plan to do it. >>>> >>>> > If there's a topic that people would like us to tackle, I'd be up for >>>> it! >>>> >>>> I haven't been paying a lot of attention to the latest hardware, but >>>> the radio said something about ARM processor that caught my attention. >>>> ARM means rasberry pi means Linux, no? Wikipedia has an enormous >>>> article (the Citations alone are 11 pages two column) but the last >>>> thing on the page seems to say that Wine is no longer for playing >>>> Windows games on Linux, but that MS needs it to prop up the ass end >>>> of their sorry operating system. Is the monopoly gone? >>>> >>>> The radio also speaks of Nvidia. They sell those Invidious graphics >>>> cards. The ones that need special secret drivers that only work if >>>> you have the right *.dll? It seems that everyone now needs them to >>>> do Artifical Intelligence (all rise). Have they changed their attitude, >>>> or is it like: "Here's your AI. Pay the monthly bill to retain your >>>> licence to use it. Any attempt to try to find out what it does or >>>> how it works will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law of >>>> Connecticut."? >>>> >>>> -- Keith >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >>> constituents as "consumers". >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/K35PA… >>> >> > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". >

June 9, 2024

Re: We've got a meeting next week on the 13th!

by Tim Keller

In my data center I've got a bunch of Ampere ARM servers and they're awesome. U.2 NVME, lots of PCI slots, etc. https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/everything-ive-learned-building-fast… Tim. On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 1:51 PM soup <soupforare(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Are there any shipping ARM boards/chips for the consumer market? Quick > look just shows a few ATX server boards with, relatively, ancient ARMs > bundled. > The stuff Apple is shipping has the same T2 "problem" the later intel > machines have with running linux, it's kind of a pain, delicate, and ruins > the point of having the hardware security in the first place. It'd be > amazing if they'd work on 1st party support but considering their business > model I don't see that ever happening. > > On the server side, I'm loving ARM. I saw the revolution coming back when > AWS Graviton was first announced. Pushed a lot of things at work over > early. With go binaries it's as simple as a compile flag. > Graviton2 offerings were ~1/3 off the equivalent intel machines for EC2, > similar discount for lambda. For some of our workloads they were faster > than intel too. Haven't had occasion to test the grav3 stuff but I imagine > it's better still. > If you've got things in interpreted language, go, or projects that have > been cross-arch and stable a while- mariadb, postgresql, nginx, et al., > definitely would suggest seeing how it'd work for you. > > --- > soup > > On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 12:20 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> Keith, >> >> It wasn't just you. It seems that it maxes out at some low number of >> users.. why.. worth investigating, but not at the expense of people being >> able to get into the meeting. >> >> Yeah, ARM for linux has been the "hotness" for a while. Pi definitely >> brought it to the forefront, but now more and more there are viable arm >> desktops. >> >> As for the AI, there are some FOSS solutions out there that are >> shockingly amazing. "ollama" is just one of them. >> No need to pay NVidia for AMD for the privilege. >> >> Tim. >> >> On Thu, Jun 6, 2024 at 1:58 PM Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us> >> wrote: >> >>> Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >>> >>> > We've got a meeting next week! Note, I won't be using our own Jitsi >>> server >>> > but going to back to the old one since we've had so many issues. >>> >>> I think part of the problem was with my micophone to webserver >>> interface. >>> >>> At this point I am thinking of this more as a test than a meeting, >>> but I plan to do it. >>> >>> > If there's a topic that people would like us to tackle, I'd be up for >>> it! >>> >>> I haven't been paying a lot of attention to the latest hardware, but >>> the radio said something about ARM processor that caught my attention. >>> ARM means rasberry pi means Linux, no? Wikipedia has an enormous >>> article (the Citations alone are 11 pages two column) but the last >>> thing on the page seems to say that Wine is no longer for playing >>> Windows games on Linux, but that MS needs it to prop up the ass end >>> of their sorry operating system. Is the monopoly gone? >>> >>> The radio also speaks of Nvidia. They sell those Invidious graphics >>> cards. The ones that need special secret drivers that only work if >>> you have the right *.dll? It seems that everyone now needs them to >>> do Artifical Intelligence (all rise). Have they changed their attitude, >>> or is it like: "Here's your AI. Pay the monthly bill to retain your >>> licence to use it. Any attempt to try to find out what it does or >>> how it works will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law of >>> Connecticut."? >>> >>> -- Keith >>> >>> >> >> -- >> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >> constituents as "consumers". >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/K35PA… >> > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

June 7, 2024

Corrigendum

by Keith Wright

> "Here's your AI. Pay the monthly bill to retain your licence to use > it. Any attempt to try to find out what it does or how it works will > be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law of Connecticut."? Correction: Delaware. It's just a joke, but it's been bothering me that I fumbled the punchline. I checked to make sure I spelled the state right, but forgot that Delaware is where corporations go when they want to buy a government. > Nvidia Corporation is an American multinational corporation and > technology company headquartered in Santa Clara, California, and > incorporated in Delaware. --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia Strange coincidence. Just an unincorporated person, -- Keith

June 7, 2024

Re: We've got a meeting next week on the 13th!

by soup

Are there any shipping ARM boards/chips for the consumer market? Quick look just shows a few ATX server boards with, relatively, ancient ARMs bundled. The stuff Apple is shipping has the same T2 "problem" the later intel machines have with running linux, it's kind of a pain, delicate, and ruins the point of having the hardware security in the first place. It'd be amazing if they'd work on 1st party support but considering their business model I don't see that ever happening. On the server side, I'm loving ARM. I saw the revolution coming back when AWS Graviton was first announced. Pushed a lot of things at work over early. With go binaries it's as simple as a compile flag. Graviton2 offerings were ~1/3 off the equivalent intel machines for EC2, similar discount for lambda. For some of our workloads they were faster than intel too. Haven't had occasion to test the grav3 stuff but I imagine it's better still. If you've got things in interpreted language, go, or projects that have been cross-arch and stable a while- mariadb, postgresql, nginx, et al., definitely would suggest seeing how it'd work for you. --- soup On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 12:20 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Keith, > > It wasn't just you. It seems that it maxes out at some low number of > users.. why.. worth investigating, but not at the expense of people being > able to get into the meeting. > > Yeah, ARM for linux has been the "hotness" for a while. Pi definitely > brought it to the forefront, but now more and more there are viable arm > desktops. > > As for the AI, there are some FOSS solutions out there that are shockingly > amazing. "ollama" is just one of them. > No need to pay NVidia for AMD for the privilege. > > Tim. > > On Thu, Jun 6, 2024 at 1:58 PM Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us> wrote: > >> Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> >> > We've got a meeting next week! Note, I won't be using our own Jitsi >> server >> > but going to back to the old one since we've had so many issues. >> >> I think part of the problem was with my micophone to webserver >> interface. >> >> At this point I am thinking of this more as a test than a meeting, >> but I plan to do it. >> >> > If there's a topic that people would like us to tackle, I'd be up for >> it! >> >> I haven't been paying a lot of attention to the latest hardware, but >> the radio said something about ARM processor that caught my attention. >> ARM means rasberry pi means Linux, no? Wikipedia has an enormous >> article (the Citations alone are 11 pages two column) but the last >> thing on the page seems to say that Wine is no longer for playing >> Windows games on Linux, but that MS needs it to prop up the ass end >> of their sorry operating system. Is the monopoly gone? >> >> The radio also speaks of Nvidia. They sell those Invidious graphics >> cards. The ones that need special secret drivers that only work if >> you have the right *.dll? It seems that everyone now needs them to >> do Artifical Intelligence (all rise). Have they changed their attitude, >> or is it like: "Here's your AI. Pay the monthly bill to retain your >> licence to use it. Any attempt to try to find out what it does or >> how it works will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law of >> Connecticut."? >> >> -- Keith >> >> > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/K35PA… >

June 7, 2024

Re: We've got a meeting next week on the 13th!

by Tim Keller

Keith, It wasn't just you. It seems that it maxes out at some low number of users.. why.. worth investigating, but not at the expense of people being able to get into the meeting. Yeah, ARM for linux has been the "hotness" for a while. Pi definitely brought it to the forefront, but now more and more there are viable arm desktops. As for the AI, there are some FOSS solutions out there that are shockingly amazing. "ollama" is just one of them. No need to pay NVidia for AMD for the privilege. Tim. On Thu, Jun 6, 2024 at 1:58 PM Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us> wrote: > Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > We've got a meeting next week! Note, I won't be using our own Jitsi > server > > but going to back to the old one since we've had so many issues. > > I think part of the problem was with my micophone to webserver > interface. > > At this point I am thinking of this more as a test than a meeting, > but I plan to do it. > > > If there's a topic that people would like us to tackle, I'd be up for it! > > I haven't been paying a lot of attention to the latest hardware, but > the radio said something about ARM processor that caught my attention. > ARM means rasberry pi means Linux, no? Wikipedia has an enormous > article (the Citations alone are 11 pages two column) but the last > thing on the page seems to say that Wine is no longer for playing > Windows games on Linux, but that MS needs it to prop up the ass end > of their sorry operating system. Is the monopoly gone? > > The radio also speaks of Nvidia. They sell those Invidious graphics > cards. The ones that need special secret drivers that only work if > you have the right *.dll? It seems that everyone now needs them to > do Artifical Intelligence (all rise). Have they changed their attitude, > or is it like: "Here's your AI. Pay the monthly bill to retain your > licence to use it. Any attempt to try to find out what it does or > how it works will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law of > Connecticut."? > > -- Keith > > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

June 7, 2024

Re: We've got a meeting next week on the 13th!

by Keith Wright

Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > We've got a meeting next week! Note, I won't be using our own Jitsi server > but going to back to the old one since we've had so many issues. I think part of the problem was with my micophone to webserver interface. At this point I am thinking of this more as a test than a meeting, but I plan to do it. > If there's a topic that people would like us to tackle, I'd be up for it! I haven't been paying a lot of attention to the latest hardware, but the radio said something about ARM processor that caught my attention. ARM means rasberry pi means Linux, no? Wikipedia has an enormous article (the Citations alone are 11 pages two column) but the last thing on the page seems to say that Wine is no longer for playing Windows games on Linux, but that MS needs it to prop up the ass end of their sorry operating system. Is the monopoly gone? The radio also speaks of Nvidia. They sell those Invidious graphics cards. The ones that need special secret drivers that only work if you have the right *.dll? It seems that everyone now needs them to do Artifical Intelligence (all rise). Have they changed their attitude, or is it like: "Here's your AI. Pay the monthly bill to retain your licence to use it. Any attempt to try to find out what it does or how it works will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law of Connecticut."? -- Keith

June 6, 2024

We've got a meeting next week on the 13th!

by Tim Keller

Hey Gang! We've got a meeting next week! Note, I won't be using our own Jitsi server but going to back to the old one since we've had so many issues. If there's a topic that people would like us to tackle, I'd be up for it! Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

June 5, 2024

Re: Windows 11 wife tech support - replacement for Veracrypt

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "joel" == joel d via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Work laptop and she wants access to files regardless of location > (work, home, road). Maybe a locked down WebDAV thing instead? > I tried Proton drive for 15 minutes this week. As a secure file > storage drive, it works. Tested it with a PDF file and could not > click on PDF to open file in any PDF viewer. I guess its secure, > but not ready for wife. She would just start copying files > elsewhere in C: to get things done, making any security foolishly > pointless. I don't see how she's going to make it work on her work laptop if they don't let her run any .exe files at all on there. Unless the web client allows you to drag and drop files on/off their setup. > Still considering wife support options. I know how it it! :-) One reason why I have limited automation at home.... > Thinking currently about a hybrid option. > Lots of these files in laptop C: drive folders, unsecured, fast and easy. Good for prior work at > prior companies, most word, spreadsheet PowerPoint, pics, etc. > Then certain "precious" files on a fast USB thumb drive at home > (resume, anything with taxes, income, ID or social). It all depends on how anal her $WORK is and how effectively they've locked down things. From the sounds of it, you really need to be looking at a pure web based solution. Maybe even a remote desktop. It's not something I've had to do though... But I do have a $WORK latop which won't let me use thumb drives without using bitlocker on it, which makes it a pain to trasfer files to linux systems. And what I see is painful. But maybe a bitlocker thumb drive which holds a copy of important file. Or maybe she can do somrhing on her phone instead?

June 4, 2024

Re: Flipping pages: new nftable vulnerabilities found..

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > I suspect new patches are in the words even now.. > https://pwning.tech/nftables/ So how many people are using nftables on regular systems, instead of just the firewall? I admit I run OPNsense as my FW. So I should patch it just in case.

June 4, 2024

Re: Windows 11 wife tech support - replacement for Veracrypt

by joel d

Work laptop and she wants access to files regardless of location (work, home, road). I tried Proton drive for 15 minutes this week. As a secure file storage drive, it works. Tested it with a PDF file and could not click on PDF to open file in any PDF viewer. I guess its secure, but not ready for wife. She would just start copying files elsewhere in C: to get things done, making any security foolishly pointless. Still considering wife support options. Thinking currently about a hybrid option. Lots of these files in laptop C: drive folders, unsecured, fast and easy. Good for prior work at prior companies, most word, spreadsheet PowerPoint, pics, etc. Then certain "precious" files on a fast USB thumb drive at home (resume, anything with taxes, income, ID or social). Joel On June 2, 2024 11:23:34 AM Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Does she have to be able to access these files while at work or just at home? > > I was just looking at Proton Drive and I think it's the right solution to > her problem. > > Tim. > > > > > > > On Mon, May 27, 2024 at 8:00 PM joel d via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > > > Haven't been able to make a LUG meeting in a few months. Hope all are well. > > > I know it's not the focus of WLUG, but have a Windows based, wife tech > support issue. > > > She is in Finance, not technology, and therefore only uses Windows 11 > laptop provided by her employer. > > > For years she has had a TrueCrypt, and now a VeraCrypt drive she uses for > 'eyes only' stuff like resume and private personal item's. > > > Her new employer locks down Windows, not allowing running of an EXE or MSI > without an admin password. So I cannot continue trend running Veracrypt as > either installed or as Veracrypt portable. > > > Size of files to secure is reasonable at about 550MB today. > > > I am not a fan of USB thumb drives for data reliability long term. To many > LT flaky or dropped in puddles. > > > I am thinking an encrypted Internet Drive setup, something like Proton > Drive or similar. > > > Any known Windows options for me to try for my wife? > > > Thank you, > Joel > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ISYAQ… > > > > > -- > > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers".

June 2, 2024

Re: Flipping pages: new nftable vulnerabilities found..

by Doug Mildram

dmildram> Surprised this seems a relatively NEW BUG as opposed to an OLD BUG/vulnerability NEWly discovered. Reading just a bit of the link Tim sent, where it says under Affected kernels, it seems feasable that all versions from atleast (including) v5.14.21 to (including) v6.6.14 are exploitable, depending on the kconfig values (details below). This means that at the time of writing, the stable branches linux-5.15.y, linux-6.1.y, and linux-6.6.y are affected by this exploit, and perhaps linux-6.7.1 doug/dmildram> I feel safe on this! unless I'm mistaken with my aging 5.4.0 kernel on linux mint 20. Thanks for your looking out for us in general in wlug ! -doug $ uname -a Linux doug0-OptiPlex-990 5.4.0-73-generic #82-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 14 17:39:42 UTC 2021 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux $ cat /etc/os-release NAME="Linux Mint" VERSION="20.1 (Ulyssa)" ID=linuxmint ID_LIKE=ubuntu PRETTY_NAME="Linux Mint 20.1" VERSION_ID="20.1" On Sun, Jun 2, 2024 at 11:34 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I suspect new patches are in the words even now.. > > https://pwning.tech/nftables/ > > Tim. > > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/NUIH2… >

June 2, 2024

Flipping pages: new nftable vulnerabilities found..

by Tim Keller

I suspect new patches are in the words even now.. https://pwning.tech/nftables/ Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

June 2, 2024

Re: Windows 11 wife tech support - replacement for Veracrypt

by Tim Keller

Does she have to be able to access these files while at work or just at home? I was just looking at Proton Drive and I think it's the right solution to her problem. Tim. On Mon, May 27, 2024 at 8:00 PM joel d via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Haven't been able to make a LUG meeting in a few months. Hope all are > well. > > I know it's not the focus of WLUG, but have a Windows based, wife tech > support issue. > > She is in Finance, not technology, and therefore only uses Windows 11 > laptop provided by her employer. > > For years she has had a TrueCrypt, and now a VeraCrypt drive she uses for > 'eyes only' stuff like resume and private personal item's. > > Her new employer locks down Windows, not allowing running of an EXE or MSI > without an admin password. So I cannot continue trend running Veracrypt > as either installed or as Veracrypt portable. > > Size of files to secure is reasonable at about 550MB today. > > I am not a fan of USB thumb drives for data reliability long term. To > many LT flaky or dropped in puddles. > > I am thinking an encrypted Internet Drive setup, something like Proton > Drive or similar. > > Any known Windows options for me to try for my wife? > > Thank you, > Joel > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ISYAQ… > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

June 2, 2024

Windows 11 wife tech support - replacement for Veracrypt

by joel d

Haven't been able to make a LUG meeting in a few months. Hope all are well. I know it's not the focus of WLUG, but have a Windows based, wife tech support issue. She is in Finance, not technology, and therefore only uses Windows 11 laptop provided by her employer. For years she has had a TrueCrypt, and now a VeraCrypt drive she uses for 'eyes only' stuff like resume and private personal item's. Her new employer locks down Windows, not allowing running of an EXE or MSI without an admin password. So I cannot continue trend running Veracrypt as either installed or as Veracrypt portable. Size of files to secure is reasonable at about 550MB today. I am not a fan of USB thumb drives for data reliability long term. To many LT flaky or dropped in puddles. I am thinking an encrypted Internet Drive setup, something like Proton Drive or similar. Any known Windows options for me to try for my wife? Thank you, Joel

May 27, 2024

Cool website that explains TLS really well!

by Tim Keller

A co-worker of mine recently forwarded along to me this site: https://tls12.xargs.org/#client-hello/annotated It's fantastic in that it *actually* explains TLS. Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

May 24, 2024

Re: Hierarchical note taking, Joplin, Trilium, browser extensions, etc..

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "soup" == soup <soupforare(a)gmail.com> writes: > In that vein, there's vimwiki Heretic! Emacs is the one true editor! *grin* > https://github.com/vimwiki/vimwiki a markup DSL and some vimscript, > works, plaintext so still grepable (I'd suggest the_silver_searcher > over grep these days), will export to HTML Thanks for the pointer, it looks interesting. Though I have to admit that I mostly turn OFF syntax in VIM since it's so hard to read generally for me, especially the dark blues. But I turn off most colors in my putty/ssh sessions. John

May 22, 2024

Re: Hierarchical note taking, Joplin, Trilium, browser extensions, etc..

by soup

In that vein, there's vimwiki https://github.com/vimwiki/vimwiki a markup DSL and some vimscript, works, plaintext so still grepable (I'd suggest the_silver_searcher over grep these days), will export to HTML - soup On Tue, May 21, 2024 at 3:26 PM John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >>>>> "Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > Sadly no. I've looked at DokuWiki a couple of times. > > I've *run* dokuwiki and mediawiki for $WORK a couple of times... but > never used them in anger either. > > > The problem is this. I'm lazy. The lowest barrier to entry is simply > > a directory called "Notes" with a bunch of text files. Being text > > and using a unix-like system, I've got tools like grep to find > > stuff. > > Me too, I have *tons* of files will all kinds of notes and ideas. > Works great from a GUI login, and also works from an SSH text only > connection as well. > > > I figure the next lowest thing is some program that lets me take > > notes that I can then organize into some index and search against it > > as well. Beyond that now it becomes hosted somewhere, etc. > > I keep wanting to learn 'org-mode' in emacs. But I never get there. > > What I do use is a little header lines in emacs and a setup where it > updates the date whenver I save the file. This way I know when I last > edited the file (inside emacs at least) which is a great way to keep > on top of things. > > I'd be happy to share with what I do in emacs. > > John > > > > On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 10:35 AM Mike Peckar <mpeckar(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hey Tim, > > > I might have missed it, but I'm curious if you came to any > conclusions about these tools. > > > thanks, > > Mike > > > On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 9:31 PM Tim Keller via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > > At last night's meeting, a new attendee brought up a problem she > was having and one of the > > solutions that got bandied about was Joplin. > > > After doing some research, this might be my new note taking app. > > Another very interesting FOSS tool out there is called "Trilium" > > https://github.com/zadam/trilium > > > As much as I like google's keep.. I'm fully aware that google > capable of just pulling the > > rug out from under me in a moment's notice. > > > I've spun up U22.04.3 server and I'm going to tinker with Joplin > and possibly Trilium and > > let people know what I think of them. > > > Tim. > > > -- > > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to > their constituents as > > "consumers". > > _______________________________________________ > > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > > Web Forum/Archive: > > > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/UDTAP… > > > -- > > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > > _______________________________________________ > > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/K6235… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/RXUAL… >

May 21, 2024

Re: Hierarchical note taking, Joplin, Trilium, browser extensions, etc..

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Sadly no. I've looked at DokuWiki a couple of times. I've *run* dokuwiki and mediawiki for $WORK a couple of times... but never used them in anger either. > The problem is this. I'm lazy. The lowest barrier to entry is simply > a directory called "Notes" with a bunch of text files. Being text > and using a unix-like system, I've got tools like grep to find > stuff. Me too, I have *tons* of files will all kinds of notes and ideas. Works great from a GUI login, and also works from an SSH text only connection as well. > I figure the next lowest thing is some program that lets me take > notes that I can then organize into some index and search against it > as well. Beyond that now it becomes hosted somewhere, etc. I keep wanting to learn 'org-mode' in emacs. But I never get there. What I do use is a little header lines in emacs and a setup where it updates the date whenver I save the file. This way I know when I last edited the file (inside emacs at least) which is a great way to keep on top of things. I'd be happy to share with what I do in emacs. John > On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 10:35 AM Mike Peckar <mpeckar(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hey Tim, > I might have missed it, but I'm curious if you came to any conclusions about these tools. > thanks, > Mike > On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 9:31 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > At last night's meeting, a new attendee brought up a problem she was having and one of the > solutions that got bandied about was Joplin. > After doing some research, this might be my new note taking app. > Another very interesting FOSS tool out there is called "Trilium" > https://github.com/zadam/trilium > As much as I like google's keep.. I'm fully aware that google capable of just pulling the > rug out from under me in a moment's notice. > I've spun up U22.04.3 server and I'm going to tinker with Joplin and possibly Trilium and > let people know what I think of them. > Tim. > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as > "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/UDTAP… > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/K6235…

May 21, 2024

Re: Hierarchical note taking, Joplin, Trilium, browser extensions, etc..

by Tim Keller

Sadly no. I've looked at DokuWiki a couple of times. The problem is this. I'm lazy. The lowest barrier to entry is simply a directory called "Notes" with a bunch of text files. Being text and using a unix-like system, I've got tools like grep to find stuff. I figure the next lowest thing is some program that lets me take notes that I can then organize into some index and search against it as well. Beyond that now it becomes hosted somewhere, etc. Tim. On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 10:35 AM Mike Peckar <mpeckar(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hey Tim, > > I might have missed it, but I'm curious if you came to any conclusions > about these tools. > > thanks, > Mike > > On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 9:31 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> At last night's meeting, a new attendee brought up a problem she was >> having and one of the solutions that got bandied about was Joplin. >> >> After doing some research, this might be my new note taking app. >> Another very interesting FOSS tool out there is called "Trilium" >> https://github.com/zadam/trilium >> >> As much as I like google's keep.. I'm fully aware that google capable of >> just pulling the rug out from under me in a moment's notice. >> >> I've spun up U22.04.3 server and I'm going to tinker with Joplin and >> possibly Trilium and let people know what I think of them. >> >> Tim. >> >> -- >> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >> constituents as "consumers". >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/UDTAP… >> > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

May 17, 2024

Re: LLM's and graphical interfaces.

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > A couple meetings ago Jansen showed up a really cool graphical > interface for LLM. Does anybody remember what it was? I wish I knew, it would be fun to play with.

May 17, 2024

Re: LLM's and graphical interfaces.

by Jansen Smith

(can this email address be added to the mailing list?) the self-hosted webui i use is here: https://github.com/open-webui/open-webui ollama! https://github.com/ollama/ollama here's the docker for ollama: https://hub.docker.com/r/ollama/ollama On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 5:32 PM Kevin Harrington <mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > Date: Tue, May 14, 2024, 4:49 PM > Subject: [WLUG] LLM's and graphical interfaces. > To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > Cc: Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> > > > A couple meetings ago Jansen showed up a really cool graphical interface > for LLM. > > Does anybody remember what it was? > > Thanks, > Tim. > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/XVOQB… >

May 16, 2024

LLM's and graphical interfaces.

by Tim Keller

A couple meetings ago Jansen showed up a really cool graphical interface for LLM. Does anybody remember what it was? Thanks, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

May 14, 2024

The A/V Fiasco last night..

by Tim Keller

It's clear to me that this self hosted Jitsi instance isn't up to the task, either under powered or the version of jitsi they let you install is deficient. Next meeting we'll go back to using the other jitsi service that worked and explore other options. Thanks, Tim. On Wed, May 8, 2024, 10:28 PM Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > I was previously booked but did try to crash the meeting virtually > though at 7:45 > > Just FYI to the powers that be: I could not join the meeting at the new > URL or the > > old one. > > I too had trouble joining; it repeatedly said "you have been > disconnected". When I finally was able to join I assumed that was > because the meeting did not start until a few minutes after 7:00, > but maybe something else was happening. -- Keith > > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/YUCCQ… >

May 9, 2024

Re: Reminder! Meeting TOMORROW!! May 8th, 2024

by Keith Wright

hammerron via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > I was previously booked but did try to crash the meeting virtually though at 7:45 > Just FYI to the powers that be: I could not join the meeting at the new URL or the > old one. I too had trouble joining; it repeatedly said "you have been disconnected". When I finally was able to join I assumed that was because the meeting did not start until a few minutes after 7:00, but maybe something else was happening. -- Keith

May 9, 2024

Re: Reminder! Meeting TOMORROW!! May 8th, 2024

by hammerron

Hey Gang, I was previously booked but did try to crash the meeting virtually though at 7:45 Just FYI to the powers that be: I could not join the meeting at the new URL or the old one. On 5/7/24 21:34, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: > Hey Everybody, > > We've got a meeting tomorrow May 8th at 7PM. > Physical Location: Technocopia 44 Portland St. Worcester > Virtual location: https://jitsi.uvhash.org > (The link won't be live until tomorrow, the instance is currently > powered off) > > Topics: Latest version of KiCAD? > Ondsel CAD: Ramifications of a company pumping money into FreeCAD.. > IBM eats another cloud tool.. > > On a different note, I know in the past we had an IRC channel going. > Discussions sometimes get clunky on the mailing list. > > In the vein of self hosting, would people be interested in me standing > up something like a Zulip server? https://zulip.com/ > > As always, I'll bring snacks and refreshments and we'll head off to > continue the conversation for dinner! > > Hope to see you there! > Later, > Tim. > > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list --wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email towlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account:https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings:https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive:https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org…

May 8, 2024

Reminder! Meeting Today (May 8th, 2024) 7PM!

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody, We've got a meeting today! Date/Time May 8th, 2024, 7PM Location: Technocopia, 44 Portland St. Virtual Location: https://jitsi.uvhash.org/WlugMA (Instance is up and running!) Topic(s): Latest version of KiCAD? Ondsel CAD: Ramifications of a company pumping money into FreeCAD.. but they're fixing bugs? IBM eats another cloud tool.. Time to embrace the Tofu? Live I might log into Digital Ocean and spin up a zulip instance! As usual, the conversation is always lively, and we always end up talking about all manner of interesting stuff. Snacks and refreshments (Grape Fanta!) will be provided and we'll head off to dinner afterwards! Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

May 8, 2024

Re: Reminder! Meeting TOMORROW!! May 8th, 2024

by Joel

I cannot make this meeting due to a conflict. Zulip sounds interesting for a daily chat. Catch you all another time. Joel On May 7, 2024 9:38:32 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey Everybody, > > We've got a meeting tomorrow May 8th at 7PM. > Physical Location: Technocopia 44 Portland St. Worcester > Virtual location: https://jitsi.uvhash.org > (The link won't be live until tomorrow, the instance is currently powered off) > > Topics: Latest version of KiCAD? > Ondsel CAD: Ramifications of a company pumping money into FreeCAD.. > IBM eats another cloud tool.. > > On a different note, I know in the past we had an IRC channel going. Discussions sometimes get clunky on the mailing list. > > In the vein of self hosting, would people be interested in me standing up something like a Zulip server? https://zulip.com/ > > As always, I'll bring snacks and refreshments and we'll head off to continue the conversation for dinner! > > Hope to see you there! > Later, > Tim. > > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/V4MRA…

May 8, 2024

Reminder! Meeting TOMORROW!! May 8th, 2024

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody, We've got a meeting tomorrow May 8th at 7PM. Physical Location: Technocopia 44 Portland St. Worcester Virtual location: https://jitsi.uvhash.org (The link won't be live until tomorrow, the instance is currently powered off) Topics: Latest version of KiCAD? Ondsel CAD: Ramifications of a company pumping money into FreeCAD.. IBM eats another cloud tool.. On a different note, I know in the past we had an IRC channel going. Discussions sometimes get clunky on the mailing list. In the vein of self hosting, would people be interested in me standing up something like a Zulip server? https://zulip.com/ As always, I'll bring snacks and refreshments and we'll head off to continue the conversation for dinner! Hope to see you there! Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

May 8, 2024

Re: Next WLUG meeting proposal

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Sounds like the 8th is a GO! Excellent! I'll be there. > Now for the topic.. If my hearing has returned after an evening of Bad Religion and Social Distortion, I'll talk a little about the new KiCAD. But I haven't got a new demo done yet. Send out the jitsi link again Tim so we all have it handy.

May 6, 2024

Re: Next WLUG meeting proposal

by Tim Keller

Sounds like the 8th is a GO! Now for the topic.. Tim. On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 5:38 PM Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us> wrote: > Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > The 8th is definitely safe. > > Are you kidding!? It's the most dangerous holiday ever! > > > May the 4th be with everybody! > > Hurray, Hurray, for the Eighth of May, national outdoor intercourse day! > > > https://www.holidayinsights.com/moreholidays/may/national-outdoor-intercour… > > That's OK, I can rearrange my schedule and make time for a jit.si session. > > Last time people had trouble hearing me. I tested my microphone > by asking Diane to let me into her Zoom account. We sat in the living > room 3m apart and tried to talk through headphones and our respective > computers and OSes. It put up a big button that said "Download Zoom Ap" > with misgivings I clicked it. It put a *.deb (Debian) file on my > computer, but did not install it (thank GNU). Then I noticed a much > smaller button that said "Use Browser". When I clicked that it all > worked just fine. Diane and I could Video chat through wifi, > Spectrum's router, and (I assume) some Zoom server somewhere. > > So the hardware works. > > I think somebody in a previous message hinted that there were audio > hardware configuration options in the Jit.Si web page. > > Does anybody have any thoughts? Using Debian > kwright@fcs26:~$ cat /etc/os-release > PRETTY_NAME="Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)" > and > Firefox 102.15.1esr (64-bit) > on a > Intel core i7 vPro Thinkpad with Logitech H390 USB headset. > > -- Keith > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

May 6, 2024

Re: Next WLUG meeting proposal

by Keith Wright

Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > The 8th is definitely safe. Are you kidding!? It's the most dangerous holiday ever! > May the 4th be with everybody! Hurray, Hurray, for the Eighth of May, national outdoor intercourse day! https://www.holidayinsights.com/moreholidays/may/national-outdoor-intercour… That's OK, I can rearrange my schedule and make time for a jit.si session. Last time people had trouble hearing me. I tested my microphone by asking Diane to let me into her Zoom account. We sat in the living room 3m apart and tried to talk through headphones and our respective computers and OSes. It put up a big button that said "Download Zoom Ap" with misgivings I clicked it. It put a *.deb (Debian) file on my computer, but did not install it (thank GNU). Then I noticed a much smaller button that said "Use Browser". When I clicked that it all worked just fine. Diane and I could Video chat through wifi, Spectrum's router, and (I assume) some Zoom server somewhere. So the hardware works. I think somebody in a previous message hinted that there were audio hardware configuration options in the Jit.Si web page. Does anybody have any thoughts? Using Debian kwright@fcs26:~$ cat /etc/os-release PRETTY_NAME="Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)" and Firefox 102.15.1esr (64-bit) on a Intel core i7 vPro Thinkpad with Logitech H390 USB headset. -- Keith

May 4, 2024

Re: Next WLUG meeting proposal

by Tim Keller

Unfortunately the 15th doesn't work for me either.. The 8th is definitely safe. May the 4th be with everybody! Tim. On Fri, May 3, 2024, 9:55 AM THE HAMMER via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey John, > > It's tough to go by me as I have not attended in too long a while. I can > say for me personally May 8th is booked. The 15th looks ok. If I'm not > able to attend either will do my best to view on line > > Ron > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 2, 2024 3:51 PM > *To:* Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > > > *Cc:* John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> > *Subject:* [WLUG] Next WLUG meeting proposal > > > Guys, > Tim & I both have conflicts on alot of Thursdays in May for the > regular WLUG meeting. We'd like to see how people feel about moving > it to either > > May 8th > > or > > May 15th > > instead this month. We're still checking with Technocopia to make > sure we will have access on either of those days, but we wanted to > reach out and make sure the rest of you are ok with this change. > > Thanks, > John (and sorta Tim) > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/6SOAC… > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/43F4C… >

May 4, 2024

Re: Next WLUG meeting proposal

by THE HAMMER

Hey John, It's tough to go by me as I have not attended in too long a while. I can say for me personally May 8th is booked. The 15th looks ok. If I'm not able to attend either will do my best to view on line Ron ________________________________ From: John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2024 3:51 PM To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Cc: John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> Subject: [WLUG] Next WLUG meeting proposal Guys, Tim & I both have conflicts on alot of Thursdays in May for the regular WLUG meeting. We'd like to see how people feel about moving it to either May 8th or May 15th instead this month. We're still checking with Technocopia to make sure we will have access on either of those days, but we wanted to reach out and make sure the rest of you are ok with this change. Thanks, John (and sorta Tim) _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/6SOAC…

May 3, 2024

Next WLUG meeting proposal

by John Stoffel

Guys, Tim & I both have conflicts on alot of Thursdays in May for the regular WLUG meeting. We'd like to see how people feel about moving it to either May 8th or May 15th instead this month. We're still checking with Technocopia to make sure we will have access on either of those days, but we wanted to reach out and make sure the rest of you are ok with this change. Thanks, John (and sorta Tim)

May 2, 2024

Re: If you use putty or puttygen, update to the latest version..

by Tim Keller

Keith: Putty is an SSH client for windows. On a very cool side note, my co-worker Nick Howgrave-Graham, who a couple years ago came and gave a talk about encryption and math and public private key stuff. The researchers who found this flaw cited his work.. Quote from the PDF: Many works in the literature have exploited side-channel information about (EC)DSA nonces by solving the Hidden Number Problem (HNP), e.g. [65, 19, 55, 12, 70, 75, 71, 63, 80, 46], since the seminal works of Bleichenbacher [18] and Howgrave-Graham and Smart [45]. Nick is a brilliant guy and it's cool that his work is still being used to find flaws. Tim. On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 12:40 PM Gregory Boyce <gregory.boyce(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I've mostly seen putty used by Windows users, and Linux users that > recently moved from Windows. > > If you were using it, you would know. You should be good. > > On Wed, Apr 17, 2024, 9:34 AM Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> >> > Putty just announced that versions earlier than 0.80 were generating >> > ecdsa-sha2-nistp521 that were flawed.. >> > >> > If you have any of these keys lying around, destroy them and regenerate >> keys. >> >> I had never heard of Putty, but this sounded dire. There are many >> things that I never heard of that are installed by my Linux distribution >> (Debian) and are essential for it's operation. Do I have putty keys >> lying around? >> >> I Google search reveals that this question has been asked by many other >> people and answered by many more people who have no idea what they are >> talking about. >> >> My current best guess is that PuTTy is a MeSs-Windows implementation of >> the ssh protocol that has been ported to Linux, for no good reason since >> the ssh program works better. >> >> Therefore I plan to ignore this dire warning. >> >> Does anybody think I am mistaken? >> >> -- Keith >> >> PS: In any case, this particular "security vulnerability" seems like it >> might be something to worry about iff you work for the CIA and think >> that the KGB may be spending mega-$ and years of work to steal your >> secrets. Nobody wants to steal my secrets. I am more worried that some >> random thug might break a window and steal my computer. >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/6RYVL… >> > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

April 19, 2024

Re: Great meeting last night! --- Sorry I couldn't stay

by Jon "maddog" Hall

Keith, >Does jitsi create rooms upon demand from anyone? Jitsi has two main methods of operation that I know of: o create an "on demand" room by generating a unique string that you can pass to the other people and everyone joins via that string o create a "moderated" room which has two URLs generated, one for the "users" and one for the "moderator". You get this type of room by clicking on "book a meeting URL" right under the normal window that says "start meeting" at the top of the Jitsi Meet page. With regards to the sound, I have a Thinkpad X1 and when I use the 3.5mm audio jack on the side I have not been able to get the microphone to work properly, so I use a USB sound card or USB headphones to hear and speak. This requires me to configure the sound options on the system. You can also select which speakers and microphones you want to use in the Jitsi application itself right before you "join the meeting". Just click on "settings". You may have to dicker with the volume a bit in your system settings. On the other hand my X1 now uses solid state storage and has a very soft fan (if it turns on at all) so sometimes I do not use any microphone or speakers other than those with the laptop. md On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 12:33 PM Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Kevin Stratton via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > I was able to connect using https://jitsi.uvhash.org/WlugMA%20uvhash.org, > but > > I was the only person (as a moderator) in the lobby at 7:20. Does you > meeting > > start at 7:30? I assumed that the meeting starts at 7:00. > > I connected to https://jitsi.uvhash.org/WlugMA (no %20uvhash) at 7:00 > and found people there. Does jitsi create rooms upon demand from > anyone? > > My problem was that, while I could hear other people (at least while > they were near the microphone and the gloppita-gloppita machine was off) > they could not hear me, except intermittently. Worse, it seemed that > my laptop was generating noise and feedback, so people had to mute me > so that they could hear each other. > > The problem seemed to be in the software or configuration of my Thinpad > with Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm) and Firefox ESR 102.15.1 > of Sept 12, 2023. > > I thought I had tested it the day before. I found a way to make a > recording and recorded a short speech, which I could play back. > It all seemed to work, but when I unplugged it and plugged it back in > it required reconfiguration and I may have missed something and wound > up using the built-in mike. > > The same USB headphone/mike seemed to work when attached to a Windows > machine, but where's the fun in that? > > I checked out early in disgust. Suggestions on how to debug the > mike might be helpful. > > -- Keith > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/OA5FC… >

April 17, 2024

Re: If you use putty or puttygen, update to the latest version..

by Gregory Boyce

I've mostly seen putty used by Windows users, and Linux users that recently moved from Windows. If you were using it, you would know. You should be good. On Wed, Apr 17, 2024, 9:34 AM Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > Putty just announced that versions earlier than 0.80 were generating > > ecdsa-sha2-nistp521 that were flawed.. > > > > If you have any of these keys lying around, destroy them and regenerate > keys. > > I had never heard of Putty, but this sounded dire. There are many > things that I never heard of that are installed by my Linux distribution > (Debian) and are essential for it's operation. Do I have putty keys > lying around? > > I Google search reveals that this question has been asked by many other > people and answered by many more people who have no idea what they are > talking about. > > My current best guess is that PuTTy is a MeSs-Windows implementation of > the ssh protocol that has been ported to Linux, for no good reason since > the ssh program works better. > > Therefore I plan to ignore this dire warning. > > Does anybody think I am mistaken? > > -- Keith > > PS: In any case, this particular "security vulnerability" seems like it > might be something to worry about iff you work for the CIA and think > that the KGB may be spending mega-$ and years of work to steal your > secrets. Nobody wants to steal my secrets. I am more worried that some > random thug might break a window and steal my computer. > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/6RYVL… >

April 17, 2024

Re: If you use putty or puttygen, update to the latest version..

by Keith Wright

Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Putty just announced that versions earlier than 0.80 were generating > ecdsa-sha2-nistp521 that were flawed.. > > If you have any of these keys lying around, destroy them and regenerate keys. I had never heard of Putty, but this sounded dire. There are many things that I never heard of that are installed by my Linux distribution (Debian) and are essential for it's operation. Do I have putty keys lying around? I Google search reveals that this question has been asked by many other people and answered by many more people who have no idea what they are talking about. My current best guess is that PuTTy is a MeSs-Windows implementation of the ssh protocol that has been ported to Linux, for no good reason since the ssh program works better. Therefore I plan to ignore this dire warning. Does anybody think I am mistaken? -- Keith PS: In any case, this particular "security vulnerability" seems like it might be something to worry about iff you work for the CIA and think that the KGB may be spending mega-$ and years of work to steal your secrets. Nobody wants to steal my secrets. I am more worried that some random thug might break a window and steal my computer.

April 17, 2024

If you use putty or puttygen, update to the latest version..

by Tim Keller

Putty just announced that versions earlier than 0.80 were generating ecdsa-sha2-nistp521 that were flawed.. If you have any of these keys lying around, destroy them and regenerate keys. Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

April 16, 2024

Re: Great meeting last night! --- Sorry I couldn't stay

by Robert N. Evans

I connected twice at 7PM, but never seemed to hear anyone. So I also did not stay. Firefox 124.0.2 (Flatpak), on "Pop!_OS 22.04 LTS" (HW is System76 Gazelle laptop) -Bob Evans -----Original Message----- From: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Sent: Apr 12, 2024 12:37 PM To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Cc: Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us> Subject: [WLUG] Re: Great meeting last night! --- Sorry I couldn't stay Kevin Stratton via WLUG writes: > I was able to connect using https://jitsi.uvhash.org/WlugMA%20uvhash.org, but > I was the only person (as a moderator) in the lobby at 7:20. Does you meeting > start at 7:30? I assumed that the meeting starts at 7:00. I connected to https://jitsi.uvhash.org/WlugMA (no %20uvhash) at 7:00 and found people there. Does jitsi create rooms upon demand from anyone? My problem was that, while I could hear other people (at least while they were near the microphone and the gloppita-gloppita machine was off) they could not hear me, except intermittently. Worse, it seemed that my laptop was generating noise and feedback, so people had to mute me so that they could hear each other. The problem seemed to be in the software or configuration of my Thinpad with Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm) and Firefox ESR 102.15.1 of Sept 12, 2023. I thought I had tested it the day before. I found a way to make a recording and recorded a short speech, which I could play back. It all seemed to work, but when I unplugged it and plugged it back in it required reconfiguration and I may have missed something and wound up using the built-in mike. The same USB headphone/mike seemed to work when attached to a Windows machine, but where's the fun in that? I checked out early in disgust. Suggestions on how to debug the mike might be helpful. -- Keith _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/OA5FC…

April 12, 2024

Re: Great meeting last night! --- Sorry I couldn't stay

by Keith Wright

Kevin Stratton via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > I was able to connect using https://jitsi.uvhash.org/WlugMA%20uvhash.org, but > I was the only person (as a moderator) in the lobby at 7:20. Does you meeting > start at 7:30? I assumed that the meeting starts at 7:00. I connected to https://jitsi.uvhash.org/WlugMA (no %20uvhash) at 7:00 and found people there. Does jitsi create rooms upon demand from anyone? My problem was that, while I could hear other people (at least while they were near the microphone and the gloppita-gloppita machine was off) they could not hear me, except intermittently. Worse, it seemed that my laptop was generating noise and feedback, so people had to mute me so that they could hear each other. The problem seemed to be in the software or configuration of my Thinpad with Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm) and Firefox ESR 102.15.1 of Sept 12, 2023. I thought I had tested it the day before. I found a way to make a recording and recorded a short speech, which I could play back. It all seemed to work, but when I unplugged it and plugged it back in it required reconfiguration and I may have missed something and wound up using the built-in mike. The same USB headphone/mike seemed to work when attached to a Windows machine, but where's the fun in that? I checked out early in disgust. Suggestions on how to debug the mike might be helpful. -- Keith

April 12, 2024

Re: Great meeting last night!

by Kevin Stratton

I was able to connect using https://jitsi.uvhash.org/WlugMA%20uvhash.org, but I was the only person (as a moderator) in the lobby at 7:20. Does you meeting start at 7:30? I assumed that the meeting starts at 7:00. On 4/12/2024 10:17 AM, gmcaplan--- via WLUG wrote: > Hi Tim, > > As you might remember, I attended several WLUG meetings when they were > virtual. > I read a recent email that led me to believe there is still a way for > me t attend virtually. Is that true? If so. I will try attend some > future meetings. > Also, here is question that maybe you or someone in WLUG can help me with. > My computer runs (for now, don't ask why) Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. A > financial institution says I must run a virus scan very soon. I > installed clamav and then ran freshclam. As far as I can tell, > freshclam has been running for 15 hours, and is still running. Is that > typical etc.? > > Thanks. > > George Caplan > P.S. Here is some blatant self-promotion which doubles as recruiting > info for UPchieve, which especially needs Physics and CS coaches > (tutors). It also explains why I am too busy to update my OS ... for > now. (I am now very close to 3000 tutoring session.) > https://upchieve.org/blog/volunteer-math-tutor-george > > > > On 2024-04-12 9:16 am, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote > >> Having our own Jitsi instance was fantastic! >> Jansen got into ollama AI stuff and it was really cool. He's >> expressed interest in doing a full end to end demo. We talked about >> the xz explot and it's entanglement with systemd and OpenSSH. It was >> a great conversation about the history and missteps of systemd and >> how we got to this place where so many pieces of critical software in >> the FOSS are supported by just a few people. >> Next month's meeting will need to be moved around as it conflicts >> with something, I'll give more details as I learn them. >> Thanks, >> Tim. >> -- >> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >> constituents as "consumers". >> >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/GEZL2… > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list --wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email towlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account:https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings:https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive:https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org…

April 12, 2024