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Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jared Greenwald

Sorry I was more thinking of TruCluster. I know we have a lot of contacts in common from that time. On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 3:30 PM Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: > The port of Tru64 to Itanium must have been after I left. I do not know > anyone in the Tru64 product management that would have given any life to > that project. No life. None. > > I can ask one of the engineering managers of that time. > > md > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 2:13 PM Jared Greenwald <greenwaldjared(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Still boggles my mind the amount of money HP spent on Itanium hardware >> back after they acquired Compaq/Tru64 only to basically abandon the whole >> thing and lay off everyone. >> >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < >> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >> >>> I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of >>> Intel's Itanium processor. >>> >>> As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a number >>> of years I still remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's >>> 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Instruction set. >>> >>> I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly >>> because I had spent the past six months proving why even a regular CISC >>> system was the wrong answer, and here Intel was going in the opposite >>> direction. >>> >>> After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his >>> shoulders and left my office. >>> >>> While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent >>> in the production of the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real >>> life "Itanic"....watching it sink. >>> >>> md >>> >>> P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with a >>> reasonable extension to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not >>> RISC) I was reasonably happy with. >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hey Everybody, >>>> >>>> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) >>>> >>>> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be >>>> up for it. >>>> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux >>>> kernel. Good riddance! >>>> >>>> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! >>>> >>>> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. >>>> >>>> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >>>> >>>> Later, >>>> Tim. >>>> -- >>>> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >>>> constituents as "consumers". >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>> Change Settings: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>> Web Forum/Archive: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DM5K6… >>> >>

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jon "maddog" Hall

The port of Tru64 to Itanium must have been after I left. I do not know anyone in the Tru64 product management that would have given any life to that project. No life. None. I can ask one of the engineering managers of that time. md On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 2:13 PM Jared Greenwald <greenwaldjared(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Still boggles my mind the amount of money HP spent on Itanium hardware > back after they acquired Compaq/Tru64 only to basically abandon the whole > thing and lay off everyone. > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >> I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of >> Intel's Itanium processor. >> >> As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a number >> of years I still remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's >> 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Instruction set. >> >> I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly >> because I had spent the past six months proving why even a regular CISC >> system was the wrong answer, and here Intel was going in the opposite >> direction. >> >> After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his >> shoulders and left my office. >> >> While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent >> in the production of the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real >> life "Itanic"....watching it sink. >> >> md >> >> P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with a >> reasonable extension to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not >> RISC) I was reasonably happy with. >> >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Hey Everybody, >>> >>> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) >>> >>> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be >>> up for it. >>> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. >>> Good riddance! >>> >>> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! >>> >>> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. >>> >>> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >>> >>> Later, >>> Tim. >>> -- >>> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >>> constituents as "consumers". >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DM5K6… >> >

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jared Greenwald

Still boggles my mind the amount of money HP spent on Itanium hardware back after they acquired Compaq/Tru64 only to basically abandon the whole thing and lay off everyone. On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of > Intel's Itanium processor. > > As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a number > of years I still remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's > 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Instruction set. > > I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly > because I had spent the past six months proving why even a regular CISC > system was the wrong answer, and here Intel was going in the opposite > direction. > > After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his > shoulders and left my office. > > While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent in > the production of the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real > life "Itanic"....watching it sink. > > md > > P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with a > reasonable extension to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not > RISC) I was reasonably happy with. > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> Hey Everybody, >> >> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) >> >> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be >> up for it. >> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. >> Good riddance! >> >> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! >> >> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. >> >> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >> >> Later, >> Tim. >> -- >> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >> constituents as "consumers". >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >> > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DM5K6… >

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Tim Keller

John, My perspective was from working at Stratus. Continuum at the time was our flagship line of servers that ran on PA-RISC and with Itanium it was clear the end of the line for PA-RISC was coming. Bob Evans and others who were more intimately involved can probably explain it better, but I remember Stratus getting a couple Itanium development workstations and my recollection was that the engineers weren't impressed. It wasn't a fundamental improvement on PA-RISC as far as they could tell. Ultimately VOS was ported to Xeon and the rest is history. I'm *sure* someone somewhere is still happily running PA-RISC based Stratus servers, but I have to imagine that number dwindles each year. Personally I have a hypothesis that Intel had really put it's bets on Xeon and wasn't really that invested in Itanium. What it did do was get HP out of the HPC market. It's fair to say that Xeon based systems running Linux pretty much put the coffin nails in MIPS, PA-RISC and ultimately Sparc and likely a few others I don't know about and with it the various operating systems that didn't get ported to Xeon. On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of > Intel's Itanium processor. > > As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a number > of years I still remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's > 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Instruction set. > > I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly > because I had spent the past six months proving why even a regular CISC > system was the wrong answer, and here Intel was going in the opposite > direction. > > After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his > shoulders and left my office. > > While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent in > the production of the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real > life "Itanic"....watching it sink. > > md > > P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with a > reasonable extension to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not > RISC) I was reasonably happy with. > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> Hey Everybody, >> >> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) >> >> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be >> up for it. >> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. >> Good riddance! >> >> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! >> >> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. >> >> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >> >> Later, >> Tim. >> -- >> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >> constituents as "consumers". >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >> > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jon "maddog" Hall

I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of Intel's Itanium processor. As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a number of years I still remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Instruction set. I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly because I had spent the past six months proving why even a regular CISC system was the wrong answer, and here Intel was going in the opposite direction. After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his shoulders and left my office. While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent in the production of the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real life "Itanic"....watching it sink. md P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with a reasonable extension to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not RISC) I was reasonably happy with. On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey Everybody, > > We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) > > As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be up for > it. > I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. > Good riddance! > > We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! > > As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. > > Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > > Later, > Tim. > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Richard Klein

I'm not sure I'll make it, but I'd like to hear more about NextCloud. I briefly attempted to install the server last weekend. Only the desktop client seems to be in the Debian repository, and I didn't have enough time to investigate what the next best way to install it is. I did discover that it's a fork of OwnCloud, though. I'd never heard of that. On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey Everybody, > > We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) > > As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be up for > it. > I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. > Good riddance! > > We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! > > As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. > > Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > > Later, > Tim. > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >

Feb. 4, 2021

WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody, We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be up for it. I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. Good riddance! We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: Disk mirroring in Linux -- MD-RAID or LVM? Advantages and disadvantages?

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Voorhis <mvoorhis(a)mcvau.net> writes: Michael> On 1/23/21 10:29 AM, John Stoffel wrote: >> KISS is good. But you really need to talk with the customer to >> define their workflow better. Also, there's a big difference between >> SSD and SATA disks. Michael> Oh definitely. I'll be talking to them. I'm just enjoying the design Michael> part, which has always been my favorite part of this sort of work -- the Michael> designing and building of stuff, before the inevitable descent into Michael> maintenance issues, misuse and neglect. :) >> Heck, you have that pile of six SAS disks, why not use them in a >> RAID0 for your working set, but then a pair of mirrored larger disks >> to store your data. Michael> I'd love to use my stack of SAS disks ... but that would mean Michael> purchasing a SAS controller for the project, and that would Michael> mean $$$. Hmmm, that's another thing I hadn't thought about Michael> looking for -- a JBOD SAS Controller ...?? They're cheap, look at the LSI stuff you can find in the internet. Generally if it can do SATA, it should do SAS. https://www.ebay.com/itm/133137220890?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3AAQAFA… This might do the trick... though I'd check the cables.

Jan. 23, 2021

Re: Disk mirroring in Linux -- MD-RAID or LVM? Advantages and disadvantages?

by Michael Voorhis

On 1/23/21 10:29 AM, John Stoffel wrote: > KISS is good. But you really need to talk with the customer to > define their workflow better. Also, there's a big difference between > SSD and SATA disks. Oh definitely. I'll be talking to them. I'm just enjoying the design part, which has always been my favorite part of this sort of work -- the designing and building of stuff, before the inevitable descent into maintenance issues, misuse and neglect. :) > Heck, you have that pile of six SAS disks, why not use them in a > RAID0 for your working set, but then a pair of mirrored larger disks > to store your data. I'd love to use my stack of SAS disks ... but that would mean purchasing a SAS controller for the project, and that would mean $$$. Hmmm, that's another thing I hadn't thought about looking for -- a JBOD SAS Controller ...??

Jan. 23, 2021

Re: Disk mirroring in Linux -- MD-RAID or LVM? Advantages and disadvantages?

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Voorhis via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: Michael> On 1/22/21 7:05 PM, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: >> To John's point, I'd like to understand what you're better. Michael> The reason for the lack of detail is that I don't yet have a huge amt of Michael> detail on how the customer's software will work. With COVID19 I still Michael> haven't been able to have a detailed discussion. Michael> But what I've read on this list so far has been very useful. Michael> I like KISS design and I hadn't thought (very hard) about the Michael> use of RAID0 before now. XFS also sounds like it may be a Michael> part of the solution. KISS is good. But you really need to talk with the customer to define their workflow better. Also, there's a big difference between SSD and SATA disks. Heck, you have that pile of six SAS disks, why not use them in a RAID0 for your working set, but then a pair of mirrored larger disks to store your data. John

Jan. 23, 2021