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Re: [Wlug] SLIPS MA Open Source Bill

by rb＠millbury.net

At 08:26 AM 8/2/2003 -0400, you wrote: >SNIP< Further more I think It would be interesting to get involved with public schools in Worcester to promote the use of Linux. I put up a small page on my web site to address this topic, which I have called SLIPS (Supporting Linux In Public Schools). (btw.. I think the next LUG topic should include LTSP! I have this working in a vmware window using just one comp) Also an admirable goal. However, this one presents an even larger challenge. Looking at it realistically, school system educators (teachers as well as administrators) are the most stubborn, least innovative group I have ever encountered. There are exceptions in each school but to achieve adoption of anything which is not brain-dead simple to use is an impossibility. Linux is far from brain-dead simple to use. Better to concentrate on promoting business usage and then let the school systems lag behind as they always have - unless you are a glutton for punishment. Sounds like you've had some experience with the education system! <grin> As the technology administrator for the Millbury Public School District, I can concur in part. Something new is counter to the culture of many schools. We at Millbury have been using Linux on the server side for many, many years. And, thanks to Skip Gaede on this list, we also ran Mac LTSP clients in one of our libraries. Since schools are not the place for innovation <smirk>, it is difficult to get Linux on the desktop. In many instances, it isn't possible due to the lack of Linux support from most educational software manufacturer. Yes, we could run Win4Lin and all that but that defeats one of the big arguments of client software cost. It also limits and confuses most school staff members who want to evaluate software. If I say, "Can't do it, we run Linux", guess what the next comment will be. In small or specialized environments, I can see great success with infiltrating Linux. In my district, we strive to make all clients identical so that it maximizes our investment. Students can go anywhere in the school and see the same functionality. For me at the moment, putting Linux in one of the labs would limit this flexibility. Linux desktop is not out of the question for schools, just not the best choice *AT THIS TIME* for all instances. If the school is not already heavily invested in Windows curriculum software then some of the many Linux choices would be a good offering. We, for instance, use a $800/PC Windows math program to help boost our students' MCAS scores. We also require all our Sophomores to have a full year of MS Office which they also get a certificate of completion. Like everywhere else, there are politics that go along with technology decisions. Cost, along with "what are the other districts our size doing" are the two big questions you will be confronted with. I have the fortunate situation where I am allowed the freedom to make the best choice for our district. Right now, its a combination of Linux and Windows. If the situation arose that a Linux desktop would be the best choice for the user, then Linux it will be. In fact, that may not be too far off judging from the number of students I've heard of running Linux at home. If anyone else is interested in discussing this subject further, don't hesitate to contact me. I'm glad to see any enthusiasm in bringing OpenSource to schools. - Rob

Aug. 4, 2003

Re: [Wlug] SLIPS MA Open Source Bill

by Doug Chamberlin

At 8/3/2003 09:21 PM (Sunday), Matt Higgins wrote: >This is a pretty grim view of things with respect to public schools. Yeah, it is a rather grim view. I am pretty discouraged by the attitudes I've seen in schools (public and private) over the past couple of decades. On a positive note, if what I said has not completely discouraged YOU then perhaps you have the energy (or secret decoder ring) necessary to prevail. Hope so! >I know a few teachers here in Worcester who would disagree with most of >your comments. Like I said, there are always a few people who maintain a hopeful outlook. >However I do agree with some of what you have to say. >Schools and the school system are often slow to adopt new technologies >and the beaurocracy that its central administration here in Worcester >would be a tough challenge. That's my main point. School systems are far more difficult to move than most businesses. Good luck with it!

Aug. 4, 2003

Re: [Wlug] SLIPS MA Open Source Bill

by Matt Higgins

Baris, Check my response to Bill. On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 12:56, Baris Hasdemir wrote: > Bill Mills-Curran wrote: > > Matt, > > > > Do a google search on linux education -- there are some pretty > > heavy-duty efforts under way to promote the use of linux in school > > systems. There was a report on that in /. recently, too. > > > > Bill > > > > > "SEUL/edu is dedicated to furthering the use of Linux and other open > resources in education. This covers all aspects of educational uses of > Linux, by teachers, parents, and students." > http://seul.org/edu/ > > they prepare regular reports, too. > http://seul.org/edu/reports.html > > baris > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

Aug. 4, 2003

Re: [Wlug] SLIPS MA Open Source Bill

by Matt Higgins

Chuck, Yes these are two separate movements/topics. I attempted to be platform independent when discussing the bill but Linux specific with respect to SLIPS. I agree this should have been two posts but I kinda had a lot to say and wanted to get it out ;) Thanks for the encouragement ! On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 12:49, Chuck Homic wrote: > On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 10:09:59PM -0400, Matt Higgins wrote: > > New to the list, and wanted to know what you all thought. I'm looking to > > put together a bill that will require state gov to consider OSS when > > sending out RFP's. The bill would mirror those being proposed/stalled in > > other states such as Washington and Texas. > > I have been in contact with state Rep Robert Spellane who is positive > > about the subject. I believe he would be more responsive if the WLUG > > were also supporting this. > > I think this is a great idea. I live in NY now... I kinda wish I had the > free time to mirror your efforts here. I'm sure I'm not the only one who > wouldn't mind updates as your efforts progress. Keep us informed! > > > Further more I think It would be interesting to get involved with public > > schools in Worcester to promote the use of Linux. I put up a small page > > on my web site to address this topic, which I have called SLIPS > > (Supporting Linux In Public Schools). > > This is cool too. Just want to check that these are two separate efforts. > (Your subject line seems to imply that it is one.) I think advocating > Linux in schools is a great idea. But anything that you intend to become > a law, you obviously want to avoid mentioning any specific OSS projects. > I mean, whether a municipality chooses Linux, FreeBSD, OpenOffice, > Mozilla, or whatever, it's a win for Free/Open software. > > -Chuck > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

Aug. 4, 2003

Re: [Wlug] SLIPS MA Open Source Bill

by Matt Higgins

Doug, This is a pretty grim view of things with respect to public schools. I know a few teachers here in Worcester who would disagree with most of your comments. However I do agree with some of what you have to say. Schools and the school system are often slow to adopt new technologies and the beaurocracy that its central administration here in Worcester would be a tough challenge. With that said I have spoken with a few teachers and administrators who are very unhappy with the state of the network in there schools. Systems crashing, software not useful because of unstable systems, and I have found that frustration is often a big motivator for change! Not to mention a few other things a that are happening right now that may help tip the scales in favor of Linux. (Ok I'll mention a few ;) Shrinking school budgets EOL of NT (Most schools still use NT at there core and in most labs) XP is too expensive and requires network wide upgrades not to mention the new licence scheme. Linux desktop has significantly improved to the point that a well configured desktop could be used by a "brain-dead" person. KDE.edu etc ... ... ... On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 08:26, Doug Chamberlin wrote: > At 8/1/2003 10:09 PM (Friday), Matt Higgins wrote: > >New to the list, and wanted to know what you all thought. I'm looking to > >put together a bill that will require state gov to consider OSS when > >sending out RFP's. The bill would mirror those being proposed/stalled in > >other states such as Washington and Texas. > >I have been in contact with state Rep Robert Spellane who is positive > >about the subject. I believe he would be more responsive if the WLUG > >were also supporting this. > > An admirable goal. Hard work but there seems to be some movement (as you > have noticed). > > >Further more I think It would be interesting to get involved with public > >schools in Worcester to promote the use of Linux. I put up a small page > >on my web site to address this topic, which I have called SLIPS > >(Supporting Linux In Public Schools). (btw.. I think the next LUG topic > >should include LTSP! I have this working in a vmware window using just > >one comp) > > Also an admirable goal. However, this one presents an even larger challenge. > > Looking at it realistically, school system educators (teachers as well as > administrators) are the most stubborn, least innovative group I have ever > encountered. There are exceptions in each school but to achieve adoption of > anything which is not brain-dead simple to use is an impossibility. Linux > is far from brain-dead simple to use. Better to concentrate on promoting > business usage and then let the school systems lag behind as they always > have - unless you are a glutton for punishment. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

Aug. 4, 2003

Re: [Wlug] SLIPS MA Open Source Bill

by Matt Higgins

Bill, I have done a significant amount of research on this topic. I have built a small site dedicated to it. The difference between these efforts and the ideas I have for SLIPS is I want to take it to the streets. These efforts are largely passive support groups. With SLIPS I want to go to the schools. Offer to setup free labs with thin clients using LTSP. I would like to develop curricula, and lesson plans, with the help of teachers, and offer night classes on the topic. This is a lot of work but if the folks here in the Worcester LUG are willing to help I think it is achievable. On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 12:28, Bill Mills-Curran wrote: > On 1 Aug 2003, Matt Higgins wrote: > > <snip> > MH> Further more I think It would be interesting to get involved with public > MH> schools in Worcester to promote the use of Linux. I put up a small page > MH> on my web site to address this topic, which I have called SLIPS > MH> (Supporting Linux In Public Schools). (btw.. I think the next LUG topic > MH> should include LTSP! I have this working in a vmware window using just > MH> one comp) > <snip> > > Matt, > > Do a google search on linux education -- there are some pretty > heavy-duty efforts under way to promote the use of linux in school > systems. There was a report on that in /. recently, too. > > Bill > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

Aug. 4, 2003

WLUG Meeting - Thurs. August 14th - 7PM

by Andy Stewart

HI Everybody, I'm going to announce this meeting "early" (at least relative to most of our meeting announcements) in the hope that it will whet your Linux appetite and entice you to attend this meeting. The meeting topic will be the Linux Terminal Server Project (http://www.ltsp.org) The speaker will be your fearless leader, Andy Stewart. With the use of this software, a person can create a network of computers which uses one powerful server and any number of less powerful diskless client computers. A user would log into the client computer, and would be doing all of their work on the more powerful server transparently. Some advantages to this technique are: - maintenance is largely localized to the server - reuse of old, otherwise obsolete, equipment - security concerns are localized to the server - control over what users can access One disadvantage: - if the sever dies, everybody is dead No doubt you're asking: - how can I boot Linux on a diskless computer? - how is it that I do my work on the server? - why is system management easier with this configuration? - in what practical situation is this configuration advantageous? The answers to those questions, and many more, will be forthcoming at the meeting. I will prepare slides for the meeting which I'll put on the WLUG website afterwards. I will also walk through the many files required to setup this configuration. A live demo will be part of the meeting. To make this a bit more interesting, I'd like to ask a few people to bring in some equipment to help me (please RSVP to me to insure that we have enough of the right things): - a multisync monitor with 1024x768@72Hz capability (my spare died) - a 10/100 network hub or switch - some Ethernet cables - one or two other client machines: - could be laptops with network capability and bootable floppy - at least a P90 with 32 MB of memory, bootable floppy, video, network, etc. My hope is that we could demo 2-3 working clients off of my laptop server. I'll bring one known working client plus the server. See ya later, Andy -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org

Aug. 3, 2003

Re: [Wlug] Linksys Router

by Michael Long

Thanks for all the feedback. I used YaST (SuSE's configuration tool) to configured the interface with a static IP and entered in the ip addresses of the dns servers that the router is using. Hopefully the dns servers have static ip's. Cheers, Mike

Aug. 2, 2003

Re: [Wlug] SLIPS MA Open Source Bill

by Baris Hasdemir

Bill Mills-Curran wrote: > Matt, > > Do a google search on linux education -- there are some pretty > heavy-duty efforts under way to promote the use of linux in school > systems. There was a report on that in /. recently, too. > > Bill > "SEUL/edu is dedicated to furthering the use of Linux and other open resources in education. This covers all aspects of educational uses of Linux, by teachers, parents, and students." http://seul.org/edu/ they prepare regular reports, too. http://seul.org/edu/reports.html baris

Aug. 2, 2003

Re: [Wlug] SLIPS MA Open Source Bill

by Chuck Homic

On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 10:09:59PM -0400, Matt Higgins wrote: > New to the list, and wanted to know what you all thought. I'm looking to > put together a bill that will require state gov to consider OSS when > sending out RFP's. The bill would mirror those being proposed/stalled in > other states such as Washington and Texas. > I have been in contact with state Rep Robert Spellane who is positive > about the subject. I believe he would be more responsive if the WLUG > were also supporting this. I think this is a great idea. I live in NY now... I kinda wish I had the free time to mirror your efforts here. I'm sure I'm not the only one who wouldn't mind updates as your efforts progress. Keep us informed! > Further more I think It would be interesting to get involved with public > schools in Worcester to promote the use of Linux. I put up a small page > on my web site to address this topic, which I have called SLIPS > (Supporting Linux In Public Schools). This is cool too. Just want to check that these are two separate efforts. (Your subject line seems to imply that it is one.) I think advocating Linux in schools is a great idea. But anything that you intend to become a law, you obviously want to avoid mentioning any specific OSS projects. I mean, whether a municipality chooses Linux, FreeBSD, OpenOffice, Mozilla, or whatever, it's a win for Free/Open software. -Chuck

Aug. 2, 2003