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Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Jon "maddog" Hall

Josh, You are speaking to someone who had to organize one of the first "No Microsoft desktop systems" from Digital which (due to our contract with Microsoft was worse than it should have been) called the "Universal Desktop Box" (UDB) also known (when running Microsoft NT) as the "Multia". So I assume you are stating the obvious for the other people on this mailing list, and not me. I also personally know Jeffrey Bennett, the young man (well, he was young then) down in Australia who first tried to get his "refund" because he was not using Windows, and what a "shite show" that was, for reasons that Jeffrey refused to recognize. But the struggles of this issue is best to be discussed in my ongoing "stories of the Maddog" now appearing on my Facebook site. md On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 1:36 PM Joshua Stone <joshua.gage.stone(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Jon, > > I think that bloatware does in general help with subsidizing laptop costs, > but that depends on the type of laptop and the licensing agreement that an > OEM has with Microsoft. In general, business laptops have little bloatware > compared to consumer lines, therefore it becomes easier to gauge how much > of a "tax" Windows can have on those. For example, choosing FreeDOS instead > of Windows can reduce the price of a HP Elitebook/ProBook by up to $230 if > you check out the customization options: > > https://store.hp.com/us/en/mlp/laptops/elite-352503--1 > https://store.hp.com/us/en/mdp/laptops/hp-probook-11-x360--1 > > Dell Developer Edition laptops you can also generally expect to be about > $50 cheaper than their Windows counterparts for the same hardware > configuration. > > https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/laptops/new-13/spd/xps-13-9300-laptop > > -Josh > > > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 13:09 Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >> I have a six-year-old Lenovo W510 "workstation" laptop that has both the >> fingerprint reader and a set of sensors that sense the colors on the LCD >> screen (used for coordinating the colors of a screen with a printer and a >> scanner). I easily got both of them working six years ago, but have not >> kept them up to date because I have not had a real use for them. >> >> I may update the W510 with a new laptop after USB 4.x comes out. Having >> 40 Gbits/second is too tempting. >> >> md >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:58 PM Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> This was how my install of Ubuntu on my ThinkPad T470 went. Everything >>> just works. The only thing I haven't bothered with is the fingerprint >>> reader. >>> >>> Tim. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:33 PM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < >>> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >>> >>>> >* Why can't they just offer instructions on how to get drivers working >>>> >properly? >>>> >>>> They will probably do this too, but you have to understand a couple of >>>> things. >>>> >>>> (1) First, many customers do not want to "fiddle" with their >>>> purchases. They want to open the box, fill in their name, etc. and work >>>> (or play). >>>> (2) Secondly, it is one thing if you want to "fiddle" with one laptop >>>> you purchased, it is another thing if you have to "fiddle" with hundreds >>>> that you purchased for your company. (See Figure 1) >>>> (3) Stores want to have laptops on display. WE want to have GNU/Linux >>>> laptops on display. Stores do NOT want to have to "fiddle" with the laptop >>>> just to show GNU/Linux working. If the stores (particularly big box >>>> stores) have to "fiddle" THEY WILL NOT SHOW GNU/LINUX. >>>> (4) Computers "need" to ship with some OS on them. If GNU/Linux is not >>>> installed it will be MS (BSD? In your dreams. Nothing against BSD, but >>>> the numbers of units do not work). If MS is on there, the manufacturers >>>> and stores and customers will pay an MS "tax". >>>> >>>> >* Will their "special" linux have all the bloatware that theiw Windows >>>> > installs have? Yuck! >>>> >>>> That "bloatware" makes your laptop less expensive. The bloatware >>>> companies pay to have that bloatware on there. If it was not there, the >>>> laptops would cost more. >>>> >>>> "rm" works. Use it. >>>> >>>> md >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:21 PM Michael Voorhis via WLUG < >>>> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm similar. I've never had trouble installing Linux on a thinkpad... >>>>> would be a little suspicious about having one with an "altered" distro >>>>> installed. >>>>> >>>>> * Why can't they just offer instructions on how to get drivers working >>>>> properly? >>>>> >>>>> * Will their "special" linux have all the bloatware that theiw Windows >>>>> installs have? Yuck! >>>>> >>>>> --MCV. >>>>> >>>>> On 4/24/20 12:16 PM, Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG wrote: >>>>> > For full disclosure, I purchase all of my laptops new (not used), all >>>>> > "top of the line" and ALL have been Thinkpads for the past quarter >>>>> > century, ever since I saw that Ted T'so was using one. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>>> Change Settings: >>>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>>> Web Forum/Archive: >>>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/3I5KZ… >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>> Change Settings: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>> Web Forum/Archive: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/SVOFW… >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >>> constituents as "consumers". >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/5TF5T… >> >

April 24, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Krichevsky, Nicholas J.

> The speakers can't possibly be any worse than the ones on my gen6 x1 carbon. Yup. I have a 5G X1 and the speakers are in the stupidest position ever. They're awful. ________________________________ From: Michael Voorhis via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 1:35 PM Cc: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org>; mvoorhis(a)mcvau.net <mvoorhis(a)mcvau.net> Subject: [EXT] [WLUG] Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed The speakers can't possibly be any worse than the ones on my gen6 x1 carbon. On 4/24/20 1:34 PM, Tim Keller wrote: > This is a stupid one, but it should be noted.. it's internal speakers > are garbage. It's clear they intend you to use BT or headphones... _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail… Change Settings: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail… Web Forum/Archive: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…

April 24, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Jon "maddog" Hall

Few laptops are "perfect". From my own viewpoint, anyone that expects laptop speakers (and built in microphones) to be good is both dreaming and someone who wants to annoy their family members and office mates. Earphones...earphones. md On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 1:35 PM Michael Voorhis via WLUG < wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > The speakers can't possibly be any worse than the ones on my gen6 x1 > carbon. > > On 4/24/20 1:34 PM, Tim Keller wrote: > > This is a stupid one, but it should be noted.. it's internal speakers > > are garbage. It's clear they intend you to use BT or headphones... > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/NPKWA… >

April 24, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Joshua Stone

Jon, I think that bloatware does in general help with subsidizing laptop costs, but that depends on the type of laptop and the licensing agreement that an OEM has with Microsoft. In general, business laptops have little bloatware compared to consumer lines, therefore it becomes easier to gauge how much of a "tax" Windows can have on those. For example, choosing FreeDOS instead of Windows can reduce the price of a HP Elitebook/ProBook by up to $230 if you check out the customization options: https://store.hp.com/us/en/mlp/laptops/elite-352503--1 https://store.hp.com/us/en/mdp/laptops/hp-probook-11-x360--1 Dell Developer Edition laptops you can also generally expect to be about $50 cheaper than their Windows counterparts for the same hardware configuration. https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/laptops/new-13/spd/xps-13-9300-laptop -Josh On Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 13:09 Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I have a six-year-old Lenovo W510 "workstation" laptop that has both the > fingerprint reader and a set of sensors that sense the colors on the LCD > screen (used for coordinating the colors of a screen with a printer and a > scanner). I easily got both of them working six years ago, but have not > kept them up to date because I have not had a real use for them. > > I may update the W510 with a new laptop after USB 4.x comes out. Having > 40 Gbits/second is too tempting. > > md > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:58 PM Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> This was how my install of Ubuntu on my ThinkPad T470 went. Everything >> just works. The only thing I haven't bothered with is the fingerprint >> reader. >> >> Tim. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:33 PM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < >> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >> >>> >* Why can't they just offer instructions on how to get drivers working >>> >properly? >>> >>> They will probably do this too, but you have to understand a couple of >>> things. >>> >>> (1) First, many customers do not want to "fiddle" with their purchases. >>> They want to open the box, fill in their name, etc. and work (or play). >>> (2) Secondly, it is one thing if you want to "fiddle" with one laptop >>> you purchased, it is another thing if you have to "fiddle" with hundreds >>> that you purchased for your company. (See Figure 1) >>> (3) Stores want to have laptops on display. WE want to have GNU/Linux >>> laptops on display. Stores do NOT want to have to "fiddle" with the laptop >>> just to show GNU/Linux working. If the stores (particularly big box >>> stores) have to "fiddle" THEY WILL NOT SHOW GNU/LINUX. >>> (4) Computers "need" to ship with some OS on them. If GNU/Linux is not >>> installed it will be MS (BSD? In your dreams. Nothing against BSD, but >>> the numbers of units do not work). If MS is on there, the manufacturers >>> and stores and customers will pay an MS "tax". >>> >>> >* Will their "special" linux have all the bloatware that theiw Windows >>> > installs have? Yuck! >>> >>> That "bloatware" makes your laptop less expensive. The bloatware >>> companies pay to have that bloatware on there. If it was not there, the >>> laptops would cost more. >>> >>> "rm" works. Use it. >>> >>> md >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:21 PM Michael Voorhis via WLUG < >>> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I'm similar. I've never had trouble installing Linux on a thinkpad... >>>> would be a little suspicious about having one with an "altered" distro >>>> installed. >>>> >>>> * Why can't they just offer instructions on how to get drivers working >>>> properly? >>>> >>>> * Will their "special" linux have all the bloatware that theiw Windows >>>> installs have? Yuck! >>>> >>>> --MCV. >>>> >>>> On 4/24/20 12:16 PM, Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG wrote: >>>> > For full disclosure, I purchase all of my laptops new (not used), all >>>> > "top of the line" and ALL have been Thinkpads for the past quarter >>>> > century, ever since I saw that Ted T'so was using one. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>> Change Settings: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>> Web Forum/Archive: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/3I5KZ… >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/SVOFW… >>> >> >> >> -- >> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >> constituents as "consumers". >> > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/5TF5T… >

April 24, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Michael Voorhis

The speakers can't possibly be any worse than the ones on my gen6 x1 carbon. On 4/24/20 1:34 PM, Tim Keller wrote: > This is a stupid one, but it should be noted.. it's internal speakers > are garbage. It's clear they intend you to use BT or headphones...

April 24, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Tim Keller

I also have a W510 kicking around here... While I was singing the T470's praises, I do have the following complaints... 1. It's fragile. You can't handle this the way you'd handle a W510 and expect it to last. 2. While it has two batteries, one of them is buried inside the laptop quite deeply. Yeah, you can change it out, but good luck... 3. This is a stupid one, but it should be noted.. it's internal speakers are garbage. It's clear they intend you to use BT or headphones... Beyond those complaints, it's a great machine. Long battery life, blisteringly fast disk. Tim. On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 1:08 PM Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I have a six-year-old Lenovo W510 "workstation" laptop that has both the > fingerprint reader and a set of sensors that sense the colors on the LCD > screen (used for coordinating the colors of a screen with a printer and a > scanner). I easily got both of them working six years ago, but have not > kept them up to date because I have not had a real use for them. > > I may update the W510 with a new laptop after USB 4.x comes out. Having > 40 Gbits/second is too tempting. > > md > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:58 PM Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> This was how my install of Ubuntu on my ThinkPad T470 went. Everything >> just works. The only thing I haven't bothered with is the fingerprint >> reader. >> >> Tim. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:33 PM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < >> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >> >>> >* Why can't they just offer instructions on how to get drivers working >>> >properly? >>> >>> They will probably do this too, but you have to understand a couple of >>> things. >>> >>> (1) First, many customers do not want to "fiddle" with their purchases. >>> They want to open the box, fill in their name, etc. and work (or play). >>> (2) Secondly, it is one thing if you want to "fiddle" with one laptop >>> you purchased, it is another thing if you have to "fiddle" with hundreds >>> that you purchased for your company. (See Figure 1) >>> (3) Stores want to have laptops on display. WE want to have GNU/Linux >>> laptops on display. Stores do NOT want to have to "fiddle" with the laptop >>> just to show GNU/Linux working. If the stores (particularly big box >>> stores) have to "fiddle" THEY WILL NOT SHOW GNU/LINUX. >>> (4) Computers "need" to ship with some OS on them. If GNU/Linux is not >>> installed it will be MS (BSD? In your dreams. Nothing against BSD, but >>> the numbers of units do not work). If MS is on there, the manufacturers >>> and stores and customers will pay an MS "tax". >>> >>> >* Will their "special" linux have all the bloatware that theiw Windows >>> > installs have? Yuck! >>> >>> That "bloatware" makes your laptop less expensive. The bloatware >>> companies pay to have that bloatware on there. If it was not there, the >>> laptops would cost more. >>> >>> "rm" works. Use it. >>> >>> md >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:21 PM Michael Voorhis via WLUG < >>> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I'm similar. I've never had trouble installing Linux on a thinkpad... >>>> would be a little suspicious about having one with an "altered" distro >>>> installed. >>>> >>>> * Why can't they just offer instructions on how to get drivers working >>>> properly? >>>> >>>> * Will their "special" linux have all the bloatware that theiw Windows >>>> installs have? Yuck! >>>> >>>> --MCV. >>>> >>>> On 4/24/20 12:16 PM, Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG wrote: >>>> > For full disclosure, I purchase all of my laptops new (not used), all >>>> > "top of the line" and ALL have been Thinkpads for the past quarter >>>> > century, ever since I saw that Ted T'so was using one. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>> Change Settings: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>> Web Forum/Archive: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/3I5KZ… >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/SVOFW… >>> >> >> >> -- >> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >> constituents as "consumers". >> > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

April 24, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Jon "maddog" Hall

I have a six-year-old Lenovo W510 "workstation" laptop that has both the fingerprint reader and a set of sensors that sense the colors on the LCD screen (used for coordinating the colors of a screen with a printer and a scanner). I easily got both of them working six years ago, but have not kept them up to date because I have not had a real use for them. I may update the W510 with a new laptop after USB 4.x comes out. Having 40 Gbits/second is too tempting. md On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:58 PM Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote: > This was how my install of Ubuntu on my ThinkPad T470 went. Everything > just works. The only thing I haven't bothered with is the fingerprint > reader. > > Tim. > > > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:33 PM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >> >* Why can't they just offer instructions on how to get drivers working >> >properly? >> >> They will probably do this too, but you have to understand a couple of >> things. >> >> (1) First, many customers do not want to "fiddle" with their purchases. >> They want to open the box, fill in their name, etc. and work (or play). >> (2) Secondly, it is one thing if you want to "fiddle" with one laptop you >> purchased, it is another thing if you have to "fiddle" with hundreds that >> you purchased for your company. (See Figure 1) >> (3) Stores want to have laptops on display. WE want to have GNU/Linux >> laptops on display. Stores do NOT want to have to "fiddle" with the laptop >> just to show GNU/Linux working. If the stores (particularly big box >> stores) have to "fiddle" THEY WILL NOT SHOW GNU/LINUX. >> (4) Computers "need" to ship with some OS on them. If GNU/Linux is not >> installed it will be MS (BSD? In your dreams. Nothing against BSD, but >> the numbers of units do not work). If MS is on there, the manufacturers >> and stores and customers will pay an MS "tax". >> >> >* Will their "special" linux have all the bloatware that theiw Windows >> > installs have? Yuck! >> >> That "bloatware" makes your laptop less expensive. The bloatware >> companies pay to have that bloatware on there. If it was not there, the >> laptops would cost more. >> >> "rm" works. Use it. >> >> md >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:21 PM Michael Voorhis via WLUG < >> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >> >>> I'm similar. I've never had trouble installing Linux on a thinkpad... >>> would be a little suspicious about having one with an "altered" distro >>> installed. >>> >>> * Why can't they just offer instructions on how to get drivers working >>> properly? >>> >>> * Will their "special" linux have all the bloatware that theiw Windows >>> installs have? Yuck! >>> >>> --MCV. >>> >>> On 4/24/20 12:16 PM, Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG wrote: >>> > For full disclosure, I purchase all of my laptops new (not used), all >>> > "top of the line" and ALL have been Thinkpads for the past quarter >>> > century, ever since I saw that Ted T'so was using one. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/3I5KZ… >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/SVOFW… >> > > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". >

April 24, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Tim Keller

This was how my install of Ubuntu on my ThinkPad T470 went. Everything just works. The only thing I haven't bothered with is the fingerprint reader. Tim. On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:33 PM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >* Why can't they just offer instructions on how to get drivers working > >properly? > > They will probably do this too, but you have to understand a couple of > things. > > (1) First, many customers do not want to "fiddle" with their purchases. > They want to open the box, fill in their name, etc. and work (or play). > (2) Secondly, it is one thing if you want to "fiddle" with one laptop you > purchased, it is another thing if you have to "fiddle" with hundreds that > you purchased for your company. (See Figure 1) > (3) Stores want to have laptops on display. WE want to have GNU/Linux > laptops on display. Stores do NOT want to have to "fiddle" with the laptop > just to show GNU/Linux working. If the stores (particularly big box > stores) have to "fiddle" THEY WILL NOT SHOW GNU/LINUX. > (4) Computers "need" to ship with some OS on them. If GNU/Linux is not > installed it will be MS (BSD? In your dreams. Nothing against BSD, but > the numbers of units do not work). If MS is on there, the manufacturers > and stores and customers will pay an MS "tax". > > >* Will their "special" linux have all the bloatware that theiw Windows > > installs have? Yuck! > > That "bloatware" makes your laptop less expensive. The bloatware > companies pay to have that bloatware on there. If it was not there, the > laptops would cost more. > > "rm" works. Use it. > > md > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:21 PM Michael Voorhis via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >> I'm similar. I've never had trouble installing Linux on a thinkpad... >> would be a little suspicious about having one with an "altered" distro >> installed. >> >> * Why can't they just offer instructions on how to get drivers working >> properly? >> >> * Will their "special" linux have all the bloatware that theiw Windows >> installs have? Yuck! >> >> --MCV. >> >> On 4/24/20 12:16 PM, Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG wrote: >> > For full disclosure, I purchase all of my laptops new (not used), all >> > "top of the line" and ALL have been Thinkpads for the past quarter >> > century, ever since I saw that Ted T'so was using one. >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/3I5KZ… >> > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/SVOFW… > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

April 24, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Jon "maddog" Hall

>* Why can't they just offer instructions on how to get drivers working >properly? They will probably do this too, but you have to understand a couple of things. (1) First, many customers do not want to "fiddle" with their purchases. They want to open the box, fill in their name, etc. and work (or play). (2) Secondly, it is one thing if you want to "fiddle" with one laptop you purchased, it is another thing if you have to "fiddle" with hundreds that you purchased for your company. (See Figure 1) (3) Stores want to have laptops on display. WE want to have GNU/Linux laptops on display. Stores do NOT want to have to "fiddle" with the laptop just to show GNU/Linux working. If the stores (particularly big box stores) have to "fiddle" THEY WILL NOT SHOW GNU/LINUX. (4) Computers "need" to ship with some OS on them. If GNU/Linux is not installed it will be MS (BSD? In your dreams. Nothing against BSD, but the numbers of units do not work). If MS is on there, the manufacturers and stores and customers will pay an MS "tax". >* Will their "special" linux have all the bloatware that theiw Windows > installs have? Yuck! That "bloatware" makes your laptop less expensive. The bloatware companies pay to have that bloatware on there. If it was not there, the laptops would cost more. "rm" works. Use it. md On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:21 PM Michael Voorhis via WLUG < wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I'm similar. I've never had trouble installing Linux on a thinkpad... > would be a little suspicious about having one with an "altered" distro > installed. > > * Why can't they just offer instructions on how to get drivers working > properly? > > * Will their "special" linux have all the bloatware that theiw Windows > installs have? Yuck! > > --MCV. > > On 4/24/20 12:16 PM, Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG wrote: > > For full disclosure, I purchase all of my laptops new (not used), all > > "top of the line" and ALL have been Thinkpads for the past quarter > > century, ever since I saw that Ted T'so was using one. > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/3I5KZ… >

April 24, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Joshua Stone

Considering Thinkpads are Lenovo's business line and Lenovo already has good firmware update support (https://fwupd.org/lvfs/devices/) Lenovo should be able to learn lessons from previous OEM attempts to provide good support. This feels very different from before where Linux was relegated to cheap computers (remember Moblin?), giving people the impression that Linux was a low quality OS. Now we're seeing big players cooperate to provide official support on premium computers, with official packages to boot! I think Fedora on its own is a great choice for a pre-installed distro too. Fedora is very upstream-friendly, and since it has a policy of updating the kernel and drivers quickly with few modifications, it's generally a good indicator of overall Linux distro support. -Josh On Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 12:17 Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: > For full disclosure, I purchase all of my laptops new (not used), all "top > of the line" and ALL have been Thinkpads for the past quarter century, ever > since I saw that Ted T'so was using one. > > md > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:14 PM Jon "maddog" Hall < > jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> No idea, but since IBM now owns Red Hat, and since the President of IBM >> is now Jim Whitehurst who was the former President and CEO of Red Hat, I >> will assume that even though IBM no longer owns Lenovo that there may be a >> range of laptops that run Fedora, not just "the low end". >> >> Just guessin' >> >> md >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:10 PM Gelman, Ian S. <isgelman(a)wpi.edu> wrote: >> >>> Do we think Lenovo will apply Dell's lessons learned from the early >>> 2010s back when they tried to ship Ubuntu on their entry-level laptops? >>> >>> Ian (from mobile device) >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >>> *Sent:* Friday, April 24, 2020 12:01:01 PM >>> *To:* Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion < >>> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >>> *Cc:* Joshua Stone <joshua.gage.stone(a)gmail.com>; Jon "maddog" Hall < >>> jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> >>> *Subject:* [EXT] [WLUG] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> In theory this will help other GNU/Linux distros too, since eventually >>> the device drivers for all of the parts of the laptops will go upstream and >>> down to the distributions. >>> >>> My findings with Lenovo (and IBM before them) was that they had pretty >>> good support for the devices anyway, it is just that you might have to >>> "dicker" with them to get the support working. I always attributed this >>> (in the beginning anyway) to Ted T'so working for IBM and using Thinkpads >>> as his own, personal laptop...but that might just be urban legend. >>> >>> Good news in any case. >>> >>> md >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 11:56 AM Joshua Stone via WLUG < >>> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hey everyone, >>> >>> Apparently Lenovo is planning on shipping Fedora on their Thinkpad >>> lines, and will use only packages from the official repos instead of custom >>> packages. >>> >>> I think this is great news as somebody who shopped for Thinkpads before >>> and had to contact support about refunding a Windows license (turns out >>> that wasn't possible at the time). Having a distro pre-installed should >>> mean improved hardware compatibility, and maybe even be able contact >>> support for Linux-specific issues. >>> >>> More info here: >>> >>> https://fedoramagazine.org/coming-soon-fedora-on-lenovo-laptops/ >>> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffedoramag…> >>> >>> -Josh >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> >>> Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> >>> Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/7AGYG… >>> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> >>> >>>

April 24, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Michael Voorhis

I'm similar. I've never had trouble installing Linux on a thinkpad... would be a little suspicious about having one with an "altered" distro installed. * Why can't they just offer instructions on how to get drivers working properly? * Will their "special" linux have all the bloatware that theiw Windows installs have? Yuck! --MCV. On 4/24/20 12:16 PM, Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG wrote: > For full disclosure, I purchase all of my laptops new (not used), all > "top of the line" and ALL have been Thinkpads for the past quarter > century, ever since I saw that Ted T'so was using one.

April 24, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Jon "maddog" Hall

For full disclosure, I purchase all of my laptops new (not used), all "top of the line" and ALL have been Thinkpads for the past quarter century, ever since I saw that Ted T'so was using one. md On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:14 PM Jon "maddog" Hall < jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: > No idea, but since IBM now owns Red Hat, and since the President of IBM is > now Jim Whitehurst who was the former President and CEO of Red Hat, I will > assume that even though IBM no longer owns Lenovo that there may be a range > of laptops that run Fedora, not just "the low end". > > Just guessin' > > md > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:10 PM Gelman, Ian S. <isgelman(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > >> Do we think Lenovo will apply Dell's lessons learned from the early 2010s >> back when they tried to ship Ubuntu on their entry-level laptops? >> >> Ian (from mobile device) >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >> *Sent:* Friday, April 24, 2020 12:01:01 PM >> *To:* Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion < >> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >> *Cc:* Joshua Stone <joshua.gage.stone(a)gmail.com>; Jon "maddog" Hall < >> jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> >> *Subject:* [EXT] [WLUG] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed >> >> Hi, >> >> In theory this will help other GNU/Linux distros too, since eventually >> the device drivers for all of the parts of the laptops will go upstream and >> down to the distributions. >> >> My findings with Lenovo (and IBM before them) was that they had pretty >> good support for the devices anyway, it is just that you might have to >> "dicker" with them to get the support working. I always attributed this >> (in the beginning anyway) to Ted T'so working for IBM and using Thinkpads >> as his own, personal laptop...but that might just be urban legend. >> >> Good news in any case. >> >> md >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 11:56 AM Joshua Stone via WLUG < >> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >> >> Hey everyone, >> >> Apparently Lenovo is planning on shipping Fedora on their Thinkpad lines, >> and will use only packages from the official repos instead of custom >> packages. >> >> I think this is great news as somebody who shopped for Thinkpads before >> and had to contact support about refunding a Windows license (turns out >> that wasn't possible at the time). Having a distro pre-installed should >> mean improved hardware compatibility, and maybe even be able contact >> support for Linux-specific issues. >> >> More info here: >> >> https://fedoramagazine.org/coming-soon-fedora-on-lenovo-laptops/ >> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffedoramag…> >> >> -Josh >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/7AGYG… >> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> >> >>

April 24, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Jon "maddog" Hall

No idea, but since IBM now owns Red Hat, and since the President of IBM is now Jim Whitehurst who was the former President and CEO of Red Hat, I will assume that even though IBM no longer owns Lenovo that there may be a range of laptops that run Fedora, not just "the low end". Just guessin' md On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:10 PM Gelman, Ian S. <isgelman(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > Do we think Lenovo will apply Dell's lessons learned from the early 2010s > back when they tried to ship Ubuntu on their entry-level laptops? > > Ian (from mobile device) > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > *Sent:* Friday, April 24, 2020 12:01:01 PM > *To:* Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > > > *Cc:* Joshua Stone <joshua.gage.stone(a)gmail.com>; Jon "maddog" Hall < > jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> > *Subject:* [EXT] [WLUG] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed > > Hi, > > In theory this will help other GNU/Linux distros too, since eventually the > device drivers for all of the parts of the laptops will go upstream and > down to the distributions. > > My findings with Lenovo (and IBM before them) was that they had pretty > good support for the devices anyway, it is just that you might have to > "dicker" with them to get the support working. I always attributed this > (in the beginning anyway) to Ted T'so working for IBM and using Thinkpads > as his own, personal laptop...but that might just be urban legend. > > Good news in any case. > > md > > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 11:56 AM Joshua Stone via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > Apparently Lenovo is planning on shipping Fedora on their Thinkpad lines, > and will use only packages from the official repos instead of custom > packages. > > I think this is great news as somebody who shopped for Thinkpads before > and had to contact support about refunding a Windows license (turns out > that wasn't possible at the time). Having a distro pre-installed should > mean improved hardware compatibility, and maybe even be able contact > support for Linux-specific issues. > > More info here: > > https://fedoramagazine.org/coming-soon-fedora-on-lenovo-laptops/ > <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffedoramag…> > > -Josh > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/7AGYG… > <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> > >

April 24, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Gelman, Ian S.

Do we think Lenovo will apply Dell's lessons learned from the early 2010s back when they tried to ship Ubuntu on their entry-level laptops? Ian (from mobile device) ________________________________ From: Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 12:01:01 PM To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Cc: Joshua Stone <joshua.gage.stone(a)gmail.com>; Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> Subject: [EXT] [WLUG] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed Hi, In theory this will help other GNU/Linux distros too, since eventually the device drivers for all of the parts of the laptops will go upstream and down to the distributions. My findings with Lenovo (and IBM before them) was that they had pretty good support for the devices anyway, it is just that you might have to "dicker" with them to get the support working. I always attributed this (in the beginning anyway) to Ted T'so working for IBM and using Thinkpads as his own, personal laptop...but that might just be urban legend. Good news in any case. md On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 11:56 AM Joshua Stone via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org<mailto:wlug@lists.wlug.org>> wrote: Hey everyone, Apparently Lenovo is planning on shipping Fedora on their Thinkpad lines, and will use only packages from the official repos instead of custom packages. I think this is great news as somebody who shopped for Thinkpads before and had to contact support about refunding a Windows license (turns out that wasn't possible at the time). Having a distro pre-installed should mean improved hardware compatibility, and maybe even be able contact support for Linux-specific issues. More info here: https://fedoramagazine.org/coming-soon-fedora-on-lenovo-laptops/<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffedoramag…> -Josh _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org<mailto:wlug@lists.wlug.org> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org<mailto:wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/7AGYG…<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…>

April 24, 2020

Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Jon "maddog" Hall

Hi, In theory this will help other GNU/Linux distros too, since eventually the device drivers for all of the parts of the laptops will go upstream and down to the distributions. My findings with Lenovo (and IBM before them) was that they had pretty good support for the devices anyway, it is just that you might have to "dicker" with them to get the support working. I always attributed this (in the beginning anyway) to Ted T'so working for IBM and using Thinkpads as his own, personal laptop...but that might just be urban legend. Good news in any case. md On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 11:56 AM Joshua Stone via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey everyone, > > Apparently Lenovo is planning on shipping Fedora on their Thinkpad lines, > and will use only packages from the official repos instead of custom > packages. > > I think this is great news as somebody who shopped for Thinkpads before > and had to contact support about refunding a Windows license (turns out > that wasn't possible at the time). Having a distro pre-installed should > mean improved hardware compatibility, and maybe even be able contact > support for Linux-specific issues. > > More info here: > > https://fedoramagazine.org/coming-soon-fedora-on-lenovo-laptops/ > > -Josh > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/7AGYG… >

April 24, 2020

Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Joshua Stone

Hey everyone, Apparently Lenovo is planning on shipping Fedora on their Thinkpad lines, and will use only packages from the official repos instead of custom packages. I think this is great news as somebody who shopped for Thinkpads before and had to contact support about refunding a Windows license (turns out that wasn't possible at the time). Having a distro pre-installed should mean improved hardware compatibility, and maybe even be able contact support for Linux-specific issues. More info here: https://fedoramagazine.org/coming-soon-fedora-on-lenovo-laptops/ -Josh

April 24, 2020

Re: [BBLISA] audit root/sudo users for RHEL 6 server

by Dean Anderson

You need to report who has the root passwords and who is in the sudo files, and whether there are any other means of becoming root. Powerbroker or other tools including Tivoli, puppet etc are included. If you can run a puppet script as root, you’re root. Sent from my iPad > On Apr 17, 2020, at 11:56 AM, John Malloy <jomalloy(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > What is the best way to provide proof to an audit person who needs to know all the root/sudo users for a RHEL 6 server? > > (I am new at this company, and don't have access to all their resources) > > We can provide the /etc/passwd & /etc/sudoers file (the auditor may not know how to read these files) > > We also have the RedHat Identity Management running here, but I am not familiar with this tool. > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > Thanks! > > > John Malloy > jomalloy(a)gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > bblisa mailing list > bblisa(a)bblisa.org > http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa

April 18, 2020

Re: [BBLISA] audit root/sudo users for RHEL 6 server

by Lois Blood Bennett

I find it interesting that the auditors don't know all of this stuff or have their own experts to tell you what they need. On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 4:24 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: > >>>>> "John" == John Malloy <jomalloy(a)gmail.com> writes: > > John> They just want to know who can login as route or sudo > > And so do you! :-) > > John> These are both Oracle servers and they only have a route and Oracle > account > > That you know of. Auditing, while painful and not fun unless it's > automated, is the solution here. > > John> There’s no additional users in the Sudo file > > It's not that easy, since you also need to look in /etc/sudoers.d/ and > also need to parse out group membership and check the sudoers* files > for group entries. It's *not* trivial. > > But again, it's the auditing part that the auditors will be concerned > about. How to do validate your results? How do you know that us > powerful sysadmins aren't hacking the reports and ignoring certain > accounts in the reports so that we can hide stuff? How do you know > someone *else* hasn't hidden a SUID script or program somewhere else > on the system? > > It's a damn rathole honestly, and there's a cost vs benefit call you > need to make. Or more accurately, management needs to make. 100% > security is when the server is off, unplugged from everything and > buried in a hole. In concrete. :-) > > Be thankful you're not having to go through PCI compliance audits for > handling credit cards, I've heard they're even worse! > > John > > John> On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 1:39 PM Dan Ritter <dsr(a)randomstring.org> > wrote: > > John> John Malloy wrote: > >> What is the best way to provide proof to an audit person who needs to > know > >> all the root/sudo users for a RHEL 6 server? > >> > >> (I am new at this company, and don't have access to all their resources) > >> > >> We can provide the /etc/passwd & /etc/sudoers file (the auditor > may > >> not know how to read these files) > >> > >> We also have the RedHat Identity Management running here, but I am not > >> familiar with this tool. > > John> What question did they ask? It's important. > > John> -dsr- > > John> -- > > John> John Malloy > > John> _______________________________________________ > John> bblisa mailing list > John> bblisa(a)bblisa.org > John> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa > > _______________________________________________ > bblisa mailing list > bblisa(a)bblisa.org > http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa

April 17, 2020

Re: [BBLISA] audit root/sudo users for RHEL 6 server

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "John" == John Malloy <jomalloy(a)gmail.com> writes: John> They just want to know who can login as route or sudo And so do you! :-) John> These are both Oracle servers and they only have a route and Oracle account That you know of. Auditing, while painful and not fun unless it's automated, is the solution here. John> There’s no additional users in the Sudo file It's not that easy, since you also need to look in /etc/sudoers.d/ and also need to parse out group membership and check the sudoers* files for group entries. It's *not* trivial. But again, it's the auditing part that the auditors will be concerned about. How to do validate your results? How do you know that us powerful sysadmins aren't hacking the reports and ignoring certain accounts in the reports so that we can hide stuff? How do you know someone *else* hasn't hidden a SUID script or program somewhere else on the system? It's a damn rathole honestly, and there's a cost vs benefit call you need to make. Or more accurately, management needs to make. 100% security is when the server is off, unplugged from everything and buried in a hole. In concrete. :-) Be thankful you're not having to go through PCI compliance audits for handling credit cards, I've heard they're even worse! John John> On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 1:39 PM Dan Ritter <dsr(a)randomstring.org> wrote: John> John Malloy wrote: >> What is the best way to provide proof to an audit person who needs to know >> all the root/sudo users for a RHEL 6 server? >> >> (I am new at this company, and don't have access to all their resources) >> >> We can provide the /etc/passwd & /etc/sudoers file (the auditor may >> not know how to read these files) >> >> We also have the RedHat Identity Management running here, but I am not >> familiar with this tool. John> What question did they ask? It's important. John> -dsr- John> -- John> John Malloy John> _______________________________________________ John> bblisa mailing list John> bblisa(a)bblisa.org John> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa

April 17, 2020

Re: [BBLISA] audit root/sudo users for RHEL 6 server

by John Malloy

They just want to know who can login as route or sudo These are both Oracle servers and they only have a route and Oracle account There’s no additional users in the Sudo file On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 1:39 PM Dan Ritter <dsr(a)randomstring.org> wrote: > John Malloy wrote: > > What is the best way to provide proof to an audit person who needs to > know > > all the root/sudo users for a RHEL 6 server? > > > > (I am new at this company, and don't have access to all their resources) > > > > We can provide the /etc/passwd & /etc/sudoers file (the auditor may > > not know how to read these files) > > > > We also have the RedHat Identity Management running here, but I am not > > familiar with this tool. > > What question did they ask? It's important. > > -dsr- > -- John Malloy

April 17, 2020

Re: [BBLISA] audit root/sudo users for RHEL 6 server

by John Stoffel

John> What is the best way to provide proof to an audit person who John> needs to know all the root/sudo users for a RHEL 6 server? It depends on what they take as "proof" of your audit process. Our current auditors want screen shots of files with a clock in the corner, which makes *zero* sense, so we're working to educate them and to put a better system in place. It might be that tripwire is the possible solution, started off first in a very targeted way. John> (I am new at this company, and don't have access to all their resources) John> We can provide the /etc/passwd & /etc/sudoers file (the John> auditor may not know how to read these files) The probably don't *care* what the files say, but more "what is your process to monitor and keep track of changes?". And of course management of adding and removing acounts. John> We also have the RedHat Identity Management running here, but John> I am not familiar with this tool. Never used it. Auditing is documenting a process and having controls and being able to show you use them and of course can justify them. John

April 17, 2020

Re: [BBLISA] audit root/sudo users for RHEL 6 server

by Dan Ritter

John Malloy wrote: > What is the best way to provide proof to an audit person who needs to know > all the root/sudo users for a RHEL 6 server? > > (I am new at this company, and don't have access to all their resources) > > We can provide the /etc/passwd & /etc/sudoers file (the auditor may > not know how to read these files) > > We also have the RedHat Identity Management running here, but I am not > familiar with this tool. What question did they ask? It's important. -dsr-

April 17, 2020

audit root/sudo users for RHEL 6 server

by John Malloy

What is the best way to provide proof to an audit person who needs to know all the root/sudo users for a RHEL 6 server? (I am new at this company, and don't have access to all their resources) We can provide the /etc/passwd & /etc/sudoers file (the auditor may not know how to read these files) We also have the RedHat Identity Management running here, but I am not familiar with this tool. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks! John Malloy jomalloy(a)gmail.com

April 17, 2020

Re: April WLUG virtual meeting was a resounding success!

by Doug Mildram

tim> While it wasn't the same as a physical meeting, when we do manage to get ourselves all back in the same room.... doug>......by next meeting, maybe the wow factor of our WLUG Jitsi meeting will have faded. Or not! Either way, as we continue, i say THANKS, Very Cool (so far!) to have household members bop in to say hi. FEATURE: potential quick peek/hi's to/from your family/etc, some of whom we might know, + some we'd never "meet" otherwise! So get your laptop webcam working if you dare in May. Or...especially when lacking a pc-with-webcam, you might easily USE YOUR CELLPHONE to connect to Jitsi, as a couple of us did last week. I merely pointed my cellphone browser (google phone, if that matters) at the WLUG Jitsi link and it immediately offered me the free app ! (Part of the "too easy"if I don't mind "buying" a $0.00 app to attend meeting, battle cabin fever, show my ugly face and see my esteemed friends). TECH TWEAK for such meeting(s):? we should start with "audio/volume check", since our 10-or-so crowd unfortunately had "some kinda loud, others very weak" variables, and one might even get confused between weak/low-volume, vs other noise/combined-output issues. On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 8:51 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey Everybody, > > I just wanted to give a shout out to everybody who showed up to the > virtual meeting last night. It was cool to see Maddog show up, I'm glad > he's staying safe and healthy. > > Yeah, there were a couple of audio/video hiccups, but I thought overall it > went great. > > I shared my screen a couple of times and that worked just fine as well. > > One cool thing that was brought up doing the meeting and I thought was > worth talking about is "vscodium" which is a 100% open source recompile of > the visual studio code editor. The big difference is that the vscode as > shipped from microsoft contains telemetry tracking data that gets sent back > to the mothership... https://vscodium.com/ solves that problem. > > We obviously jibber jabbed about COVID19 and folding@home and Logan > showed off the facemasks he's been printing as well as the antennae he's > building to contact a long lost satellite in geostationary orbit. > > While it wasn't the same as a physical meeting, when we do manage to get > ourselves all back in the same room, I think it's something we'll > definitely incorporate into the physical meetings. > > Stay safe, stay healthy and wash your hands! > > We'll see what May brings us and decide from there... > > Tim. > WLUG President > > > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/VMGQ6… >

April 13, 2020

ansible layout thoughts

by John Stoffel

Guys, I'm starting to work on deplying ansible at $WORK to start managing a bunch of existing servers. The goal is to A) get them consistent, B) learn ansible, and C) automate deployments so if I get hit by a bus, they can have a hope of keeping things going. So my first thoughts are about organization. Ansible is a file/directory heavy setup. And I understand how a task has one or more roles. And then a playbook can have one or more tasks. But it's how to manage the overall site or bundles of playbooks that I want to understand. I've looked at: https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/user_guide/playbooks_best_practices… and I think I can deal with the first layout suggestion, but I'd porbably put playbooks into a playbooks/ directory. But... how to keep them organized as my collection grows. Do I want a new directory structure for each group of playbooks? For example I want to do: - add ssh-keys for logins - make sure right repo(s) are configured - ntp client config - postfix config - NIS config - fstab config - nsswitch.conf config So ideally all of the above would be a playbook each, since for example ntp config, would/could include: - install ntp - install default client config - restart ntpd once configured - etc... Where it all comes down to is keeping all this organized nicely, especially as it grows ever more complicated. All the silly examples of setting up a LAMP stack completely gloss over the actual pushing of content, which is really what we want to do. So, thoughts? Real life experience? Suggestions for good training classes? Unfortunately it would have to be online now, not my preferred in-person training.... John

April 13, 2020