- WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

Re: [Wlug] Help

by Andy Stewart

Steve, Could you tell us a little bit more, for example, what did you do, and what did Applix do that you didn't expect? I have Applix Office 5.0 running on SuSE 7.1 with no problems. Have you insured that you've met all of the prerequisites of the software, especially that you have the correct versions of libraries available? Later, Andy -- Andy Stewart Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org

June 22, 2001

Re: [Wlug] Someone's hammering....

by Theo Van Dinter

On Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 10:29:38AM -0400, Peter Gutowski wrote: > Jun 22 05:17:53 host SERVER[18075]: Dispatch_input: bad request line '..... > > followed by a lot of binary bytes ending in "/bin/sh" > > I'm guessing that whoever is trying this is [so far] being kept out, but I guess I'd like to know what is being hammered on as "SERVER" doesn't provide much help. Any ideas? Well, I would probably do a few things -- 1) Verify that this person hasn't broken in yet (check for odd accounts in /etc/passwd, look for rootkits -- you'll probably want to go boot off a CD for this, verify that system binaries haven't changed (ls, login, telnetd, sshd), etc.) 2) If PID 18075 isn't constantly running, it's probably something out of inetd. I would probably set up a packet sniffer and watch traffic to your box. That will hopefully tell you 1) which daemon is being attacked, and 2) what IP/network/etc is attacking you. 3) Once you have enough information, I'd firewall the attacker out and contact the remote administrator about the security violation. And if you haven't already, make sure you're up-to-date WRT packages. -- Randomly Generated Tagline: Personally, I think my choice in the mostest-superlative-computer wars has to be the HP-48 series of calculators. They'll run almost anything. And if they can't, while I'll just plug a Linux box into the serial port and load up the HP-48 VT-100 emulator. (By jdege(a)winternet.com, Jeff Dege)

June 22, 2001

Someone's hammering....

by Peter Gutowski

I recently installed logcheck on my RH 7.0 systems and have been comforted and possibly entertained by how well it works. However this morning I started getting lengthy messages indicating what appears to be somebody trying to break in via a buffer overrun. I get this... Security Violations =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Jun 22 05:17:53 host SERVER[18075]: Dispatch_input: bad request line '..... followed by a lot of binary bytes ending in "/bin/sh" I've ad a couple "spurts" of this already today on two different systems; lasting about 2 minutes and then dissappearing. I'm guessing that whoever is trying this is [so far] being kept out, but I guess I'd like to know what is being hammered on as "SERVER" doesn't provide much help. Any ideas? -- Peter Gutowski <peter(a)linuxchamps.com> // tel.: (413) 587-3957 "When in company, put not your hands to any part of the body not usually discovered." --George Washington, _Rules for Civility and Decent Behavior_

June 22, 2001

Re: [Wlug] Battlebots / Mind Rover...

by Doctor Orbitz

I usually have quite a bit of problems running games in Linux, but if there are enough people, sure I'm in. Orbitz Keller, Tim wrote: >This is very off topic, but knowing that were all nerdy types I figure I'd >get some interesting feed back. > >Loki Games just released a Linux port of a game called "Mind Rover" Marc >Hughes and myself have been having a lot of fun recently having our robots >beat the crap out of each other. > >[quick mind rover synopsis] >you pick a chassis (hovercraft, wheeled, treaded), you put your weapons and >sensors all over the chassis, you then design the logic that drives the >whole contraption. Along with the robots there are different scenarios, >such as capture the flag and maze levels. > >I was wondering how many people would be interested in starting a "Mind >Rover" competition inside wlug. If it were more than 10 people, we could >get a bulk rate on Mind Rover. > >As for the actual mechanics of running the competitions, I'd like some >input. > >Thanks for having an open ear!!! > >Tim. >_______________________________________________ >Wlug mailing list >Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org >http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

June 21, 2001

Battlebots / Mind Rover...

by Keller, Tim

This is very off topic, but knowing that were all nerdy types I figure I'd get some interesting feed back. Loki Games just released a Linux port of a game called "Mind Rover" Marc Hughes and myself have been having a lot of fun recently having our robots beat the crap out of each other. [quick mind rover synopsis] you pick a chassis (hovercraft, wheeled, treaded), you put your weapons and sensors all over the chassis, you then design the logic that drives the whole contraption. Along with the robots there are different scenarios, such as capture the flag and maze levels. I was wondering how many people would be interested in starting a "Mind Rover" competition inside wlug. If it were more than 10 people, we could get a bulk rate on Mind Rover. As for the actual mechanics of running the competitions, I'd like some input. Thanks for having an open ear!!! Tim.

June 21, 2001

Re: [Wlug] backup programs

by John Stoffel

Brad> We will probably stick to a small scale for now (since we only Brad> have a test bed of a single machine), but hopefully, if we plan Brad> this right and write the APIs well, we'll be able to scale Brad> it. Either way we'll keep the enterprise solution in mind as we Brad> go. The architecture that I would suggest goes something like this. Though it would be easier on a blackboard to diagram. Do functional blocks for you high level layout. Be flexible. Think big. 64 bit pointers everywhere. Data is *not* getting smaller. - central server - talks to clients (which can be on the central server) - talks to device driver(s) both local and remote. - talks to index database server(s). - talks to media mover(s) - maintains backup schedules - controls indexes and their retention times. - labels tapes with control info. - device drivers - accept raw data from central server, spool to tape/disk/etc. - multiplexes data streams to device. - optimized for specific devices. - clients - runs on various OSes - reads various file systems and dumps data in intermediate form to central server. - index server - lets you keep online indexes off all files saved to which tape and when, for easy restores. - media mover - controls jukebox - can accept multiple commands at once and optimizes them. - requires funky per-jukebox with per-device command queues. Can you tell that this is something I've been thinking about? Look at the Amanda scheduler. It's an interesting idea, but it locks you into their way of doing things too much. Needs to be more general. John John Stoffel - Senior Unix Systems Administrator - Lucent Technologies stoffel(a)lucent.com - http://www.lucent.com - 978-952-7548

June 21, 2001

Re: [Wlug] backup programs

by Brad Noyes

Hi All, i just wanted to thank you guys for the great responses. There were several ideas that we hadn't thought of yet. A question was asked whether we wanted to make an backup solution for a single machine or a whole network for an enterprise solution. Initially We were going to write it for a single system, but thoughts of backuping up a system remotely had come to mind. We will probably stick to a small scale for now (since we only have a test bed of a single machine), but hopefully, if we plan this right and write the APIs well, we'll be able to scale it. Either way we'll keep the enterprise solution in mind as we go. Many Thanks! --Brad

June 21, 2001

Re: [Wlug] backup programs

by Theo Van Dinter

On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 10:44:57PM -0400, Brad Noyes wrote: > I have noticed the lack of sufficient backup programs for > linux. A friend an i have decided to write our own. We have Other people have mentioned various products, so here are the ones I know of/use on Linux: - BRU (I think I'm a rev or two behind, it's commercial and acts as a better tar -- complete with GUI) - arkeia (commercial, haven't used) - amanda (OSS, and highly recommended by folks I speak with) - tar (OSS, everyone's friend and stand-by product) - dump/restore (OSS, see comments for tar) - legato networker (commercial, pricey. it's a good package though, although I used it on everything except linux at a previous job) - veritas netbackup (commercial. I don't know if the server is available on linux, but it's definately available as a client. according to the sales critters who came by for a presentation last week, linux is second in their list of supported ports (ie: they program for solaris, then port to linux, then (not in order) hpux/aix, and somewhere near the bottom is tru64) I think it was already mentioned, but hit up Curtis Preston's website: www.backupcentral.com Curtis also has an O'Reilly book that you may find useful. I haven't done more than flip through it yet (I'm not typically a B&R guy), but it covers almost anything you'd want to know about B&R practices in the real world. -- Randomly generated tagline: "Robotic tape changer mistook operator's tie for a backup tape." - Today's BOFH Excuse

June 20, 2001

Re: [Wlug] backup programs

by John Stoffel

Brad> I have noticed the lack of sufficient backup programs for Brad> linux. A friend an i have decided to write our own. We have come Brad> up with a good list of goals we want to hit. Before we started Brad> seriously working on the design, i wanted to ask the group of Brad> features they would like to see in a backup systems. It depends on what you're trying to do here. Are you looking at doing a backup of just one system? Multiple systems to a central server? Multiple systems to a central server, along with extra drives attached directly to other high volume hosts? I'm a user of Legato software, and while I have some major problems with the company and the pricing, they do some things very well. Here are my thoughts on what a good backup system should have: 1. It should scale well. 2. Good reporting, especially for outside programs. 3. Support multiplexing of data streams to backup media to increase performance. 4. Very modular, with good APIs between sections. 5. Support a wide variety of backup medias. 6. Support a large variety of jukeboxes and their robots. - including barcode labels - intelligent handling of moving tapes. Don't single thread like Legato. 7. Be able to generate disaster recovery media. 8. Online indexes of files on tape. 9. GUI interface uses the command line commands for all work. 10. Staging to disk before writing to backup media. Useful for slow remote clients. 11. Completely flexible scheduler for backup times and levels. Legato sucks in this regard. 12. Support for pre/post processing on each file system on each client to handle special cases you don't think of ahead of time. Andy and B.J. seem to be asking more for a much smaller scale system which is targeted for a home user who has a complete disaster. I'm asking for a more enterprise level system. And before you do any actual coding, you should look at the following references: Unix Backup & Recovery by W. Curtis Preston (O'Reilly) http://www.amanda.org http://www.backupcentral.com (Curtis' web site) And see what's out there. And again, I can't stress this enough, try to steal what's out there if you can, and then make sure it's modular and flexible. You cannot make it to flexible. John John Stoffel - Senior Unix Systems Administrator - Lucent Technologies stoffel(a)lucent.com - http://www.lucent.com - 978-952-7548

June 20, 2001

Re: [Wlug] backup programs

by B.J. Herbison

What I would like to see in a backup program: o Simple configuration. o Simple operation -- insert bulk media and bootable media (floppy or CD to burn), and run the backup program with one parameter (the configuration name). Good logging, but ending with a clear "yes, this backup worked without any problems", or "no, you aren't safe yet". o Simple disaster recovery -- insert the bulk media and bootable media pair, turn on power, answer "yes" to "Is this a disaster recovery?" prompt, identify media, and everything gets restored. o Simple file restore -- to original location or parallel file tree. o Catalogs on tape and optionally on disk. The ability to copy take catalogs to disk. o Support for multiple operating systems/boots/file system types in one backup set. B.J. At 22:44 19-06-2001 -0400, you wrote: >Hi all, >I have noticed the lack of sufficient backup programs for >linux. A friend an i have decided to write our own. We have >come up with a good list of goals we want to hit. Before we >started seriously working on the design, i wanted to ask >the group of features they would like to see in a backup >systems. > >Thanks, >--Brad >_______________________________________________ >Wlug mailing list >Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org >http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug -- B.J. Herbison / bj(a)herbison.com / http://www.herbison.com/herbison/bj.html The Next Asylum / 203 Long Hill Road / Bolton, MA 01740-1421 / +1 978 634-1061

June 20, 2001

Re: [Wlug] backup programs

by Andy Stewart

HI Brad, By "lack of sufficient backup programs", do you mean GPL programs? There are a few commercial offerings available such as BRU and Arkeia. Last I knew, Arkeia was available for free download for home use, but is not GPL software. OK, to answer your question about features that I like to see in a backup solution: o fits on a bootable floppy for disaster recovery o it would be nice if I didn't have to run through the whole tape to get one file restored. o GUI and command line (keeps everybody happy) o store a directory of files on the tape o sufficient error detection and corrections schemes to account for imperfect media o damaged media shouldn't prevent me from getting back the entire backup, just a file or two (unless of course the tape is shredded or something) o backup program does a read/verify to prove that the backup was really written correctly o ability to write backups to media other than tape, such as DVD-RAM or perhaps a hard disk partition That's just a few thoughts...perhaps they will stimulate some discussion. Later, Andy -- Andy Stewart Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org

June 20, 2001

backup programs

by Brad Noyes

Hi all, I have noticed the lack of sufficient backup programs for linux. A friend an i have decided to write our own. We have come up with a good list of goals we want to hit. Before we started seriously working on the design, i wanted to ask the group of features they would like to see in a backup systems. Thanks, --Brad

June 20, 2001

Loki games for $9.99 or less

by Brian J. Conway

I came across this in a MandrakeForum.com article today. I figured that if anyone was interested in Quake III, Soldier of Fortune, or most of the other Loki games for $9.99 (or $4.99), then it's for you: http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/deptpage.asp?web_dept=PC+Gam… -b

June 17, 2001

Re: [Wlug] GNU utils on Solaris 8

by Brian J. Conway

> Why use GNU binutils? Just install the Solaris 8 SUNWbtool and/or > SUNWbtoox (64-bit) packages. They install the toolchain utilities in > /usr/ccs/bin which GCC needs to create binaries. Thanks, I think I meant "or equivalent" with the equivalent being preferable, it was just badly phrased. -b

June 15, 2001

Re: [Wlug] GNU utils on Solaris 8

by Charles R. Anderson

Why use GNU binutils? Just install the Solaris 8 SUNWbtool and/or SUNWbtoox (64-bit) packages. They install the toolchain utilities in /usr/ccs/bin which GCC needs to create binaries. On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Brian J. Conway wrote: dogber> seem to hunt down all the GNU utilities that I need. The dogber> one that comes to mind off the top of my head is 'ar', dogber> which is part of binutils, and I can't compile binutils as dogber> it needs 'ar'. I've scoured www.sunfreeware.com to no dogber> avail (though there is some great stuff on there that I dogber> always snag), nor is there a version on my system already. dogber> Any ideas?

June 15, 2001

GNU utils on Solaris 8

by Brian J. Conway

Greetings. I'm once again picking up a project that I left off on now that Sun's site has updated the downloadble ISOs for Solaris 8 Intel to the 04/01 version. In the past I've gotten a decently customized install and had GCC and some other essentials loaded, but I can never seem to hunt down all the GNU utilities that I need. The one that comes to mind off the top of my head is 'ar', which is part of binutils, and I can't compile binutils as it needs 'ar'. I've scoured www.sunfreeware.com to no avail (though there is some great stuff on there that I always snag), nor is there a version on my system already. Any ideas? Brian J. Conway dogbert(a)clue4all.net Geek for hire: http://clue4all.net/resume Power Mac G4 Cube. Some of us are getting laid tonight. (http://www.pvponline.com/archive.php3?archive=20010509)

June 15, 2001

Re: [Wlug] vim errors

by Aaron Haviland

Brad Noyes said: > Yes, i think that you're right. I'm not sure what the term setting should be, > or even what it's used for. i'll look on the net for some info about it. > > unfortunatly i have to ues telnet becuase i can't assume that all machines that > all machines i will use will have ssh. There's a way around this, by putting a java applet on the webserver of the box you want ssh access to. Downside: it's GPL, and if you provide the applet, you have to provide the source. Also, could be considered as "exporting cryptography software" if the server is in the US. http://www.mindbright.com/products/mindterm/ v1.2.1 is GPL. other versions aren't free. This is what I use, but I don't stick it in a public place and I don't tell people about it... Hmmm. I'm gonna have to kill -9 $(pidof you) now. -- Orion orion [at] tribble [dot] dyndns [dot] org "Boys in bed, girls in bed All now go to sleep Sleep, sweet dreams Wake to a new today tomorrow"

June 14, 2001

Re: [Wlug] vim errors

by Brad Noyes

Yes, i think that you're right. I'm not sure what the term setting should be, or even what it's used for. i'll look on the net for some info about it. unfortunatly i have to ues telnet becuase i can't assume that all machines that all machines i will use will have ssh. On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 12:53:27PM -0400, Aaron Haviland wrote: > Brad Noyes said: > > Hi all, > > I'm having troubles with using vim over a telnet session. When i telnet into > > my machine and start up vim it sits there for while, until i hit ctl-c, then > > i get this error > > > > Error detected while processing /usr/local/share/vim/vimrc > > Interrupted > > Error detected while processing /net/fire/home/bnoyes/.vimrc: > > > > regular VI works fine. vim works if i ssh into the host. vim also works fine > > if i telnet into the machine from windows (using putty). but no luck if i > > telnet from a linux machines. (btw. The host is unixware, that's a problem in > > itself). Any ideas? > > > > Thanks, > > --Brad > > Personally, I never use telnet, and I haven't run into this situation... > > But maybe this is a TERM setting problem? > > -- > Orion orion [at] tribble [dot] dyndns [dot] org > > PO ta to po ta to po ta to po > ta to po ta to po ta to po ta > to po ta to po ta to po ta to > po ta to po ta to po ta to > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

June 13, 2001

Re: [Wlug] vim errors

by Aaron Haviland

Brad Noyes said: > Hi all, > I'm having troubles with using vim over a telnet session. When i telnet into > my machine and start up vim it sits there for while, until i hit ctl-c, then > i get this error > > Error detected while processing /usr/local/share/vim/vimrc > Interrupted > Error detected while processing /net/fire/home/bnoyes/.vimrc: > > regular VI works fine. vim works if i ssh into the host. vim also works fine > if i telnet into the machine from windows (using putty). but no luck if i > telnet from a linux machines. (btw. The host is unixware, that's a problem in > itself). Any ideas? > > Thanks, > --Brad Personally, I never use telnet, and I haven't run into this situation... But maybe this is a TERM setting problem? -- Orion orion [at] tribble [dot] dyndns [dot] org PO ta to po ta to po ta to po ta to po ta to po ta to po ta to po ta to po ta to po ta to po ta to po ta to po ta to

June 13, 2001

vim errors

by Brad Noyes

Hi all, I'm having troubles with using vim over a telnet session. When i telnet into my machine and start up vim it sits there for while, until i hit ctl-c, then i get this error Error detected while processing /usr/local/share/vim/vimrc Interrupted Error detected while processing /net/fire/home/bnoyes/.vimrc: regular VI works fine. vim works if i ssh into the host. vim also works fine if i telnet into the machine from windows (using putty). but no luck if i telnet from a linux machines. (btw. The host is unixware, that's a problem in itself). Any ideas? Thanks, --Brad

June 13, 2001

Fwd: FREE Open Source Database Seminar in Bostson, MA

by Andy Stewart

---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: FREE Open Source Database Seminar in Bostson, MA Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:00:21 -0400 From: "Eric Hause" <info(a)greatbridge.com> To: <andystewart(a)mediaone.net> Dear Andy Stewart: Great Bridge invites you and the members of Worcester Linux Users Group to attend our FREE open source database seminar in Boston, MA: +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "It's About Time...And Money: Introduction to Open Source Database Technologies for the Enterprise" Wednesday, June 27, 2001 The Four Seasons Boston Boston, MA +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Register online at http://www.greatbridge.com/gb?bos In today's economy, successful e-business requires high-performance database solutions that fit tightening IT budgets. Great Bridge delivers PostgreSQL for Linux and Solaris, an open source object-relational database that won the 2000 Linux Journal Editors' Choice award for best relational database system. By attending our free introductory seminar, you will learn: * How open source technologies can be deployed to create a cost-effective, high-performance platform for e-business. * How PostgreSQL can dramatically improve project ROI by lowering your database software investment. * How PostgreSQL's enterprise-class features compare to other leading databases, such as Oracle, IBM DB2, Microsoft SQL Server, Informix and more. * How Great Bridge services and solutions can help you quickly become productive with PostgreSQL and shorten development cycles. Please plan to join us for this free half-day seminar appropriate for IT managers, programmers, developers, and database professionals. To learn more or register, visit us online at http://www.greatbridge.com/gb?bos Regards, Eric Hause Great Bridge LLC PS: Please feel free to circulate this invitation to the members of Worcester Linux Users Group and visit us online at http://www.greatbridge.com/gb?bos to register today. __________________________________________________________________ This is a one-time notice only and will not be repeated. If you would like to be removed from our mailing list, please send an email with to remove(a)greatbridge.com. ------------------------------------------------------- -- Andy Stewart Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org

June 13, 2001

Help

by Breaux_Steve＠emc.com

I work at EMC and I installed REDHAT7.0 on a Dell GX150 and I can't get Applix office to install on it? what am I to do?

June 12, 2001

Reminder: WLUG Meeting 14-june-2001

by Andy Stewart

Hi everybody, This is just a reminder of the upcoming WLUG meeting, to be held on Thursday, June 14th at 7:00 PM in Kinnicutt Hall at WPI (aka the usual place). At this meeting, WLUG member Tim Keller will be giving a talk on Logical Volume Management (LVM). More details about this talk can be found on the WLUG website. Here are some websites which I've found that are related to Linux and/or LVM: http://www.sistina.com/lvm http://www.sistina.com/lvm/doc/LVM-HOWTO http://ibgwww.Colorado.EDU/~lessem/psyc5112/usail/peripherals/disks/logical/ After the meeting, we'll adjourn to the Boynton Restaurant and all are welcome to join us. See ya later, Andy -- Andy Stewart Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org

June 11, 2001

For sale: 19" sun monitor, 175 USD

by Keller, Tim

Hey Guys, Here's the skinny on it... Manufacturer: Sun Model: 365-1324 Max Resolution: 1280x1024 Sync Type: Composite H Freq/ V Freq: 88.1khz / 76hz Tube Manufacturer: Sony (Trinitron tube) Tube Size: 20" (19" viewable) Connector: 13W3 (however, they do make a 13W3 to 15pin vga adapter that works great) This is one of those sun monitors that has the little credit card remote in the front (which is still in there). The monitor is in mint condition and works fine. I'm asking 175 for it. Let me know if you want it. Thanks, Tim.

June 7, 2001

Re: [Wlug] ipaq

by Wesley T Allen

Actually, this is a great thread. I've been in the market for a Linux-based PDA and am unsure how to proceed. Agenda's offer is right out because I want a color screen (for the gameboy emulator), and I really don't feel like waiting until October for Yopy, but I will if I have to. Should I go out and buy an iPaq, flash it, and install Linux? Or should I wait for Yopy, even though it doesn't use X. Wes On 06 Jun 2001 17:31:00 -0400, Bradford J Snow wrote: > The Familiar distro is good. It can be found off www.handhelds.org , if > you have not found that site already. > > As far as warnings, just be careful when flashing the bootloader. Make > sure you follow the instructions exactly. Also, if you do install linux > and attempt to re-install WinCE and happen to get any errors while > flashing the device, don't turn it off. There used to be a bug, that > probably has been fixed by now, where some of the sectors in the last 4MB > were not erased properly by the bootloader thus could not be flashed. > Most likely you will not run into this issue, but as a general > rule if you experience errors while flashing the device, don't turn it off > until you have fixed the problem. > > Have fun, > Brad > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Bradford J. Snow bradford(a)wpi.edu > 508 - 831-6538 WPI CS/EE '01 > Executive Council and Events Chair of WPI ACM > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Brad Noyes wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 16:43:25 -0400 > > From: Brad Noyes <maitre(a)ccs.neu.edu> > > Reply-To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > > To: wlug(a)wlug.org > > Subject: [Wlug] ipaq > > > > Hi all, > > I recently bought an ipaq. I know there are are a few members of the wlug that > > have and ipaq with linux running. I have done some looking about on the net and > > i have found a hand full of options or a linux distro to put on the ipaq. I am > > curious to hear what the group's experience are with linux and the ipaq, and if > > you have any suggestions/warnings. > > > > Thanks > > --Brad > > _______________________________________________ > > Wlug mailing list > > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

June 7, 2001