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Re: [Wlug] REMINDER: Meeting Wed, May 15th

by Andy Stewart

HI gang, I have one person who has confirmed that he will bring his laptop to the meeting for a PLIP demonstration. Is there one other person who will do the same? Now, keep in mind that although one group member who shall remain nameless is notorious for yanking on power cords (most especially while they are still in use), it should be safe to be tethered to his laptop with my LapLink cable for the demo at the meeting. You have been warned! :-) Later, Andy -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org

May 15, 2002

Re: [Wlug] Locked up

by Andy Stewart

On Tuesday 14 May 2002 08:53, dibb_jim(a)emc.com wrote: > Regarding the IDE hard drive going bad... can you elaborate more on the > symptoms? > > I've been trying to track down system instability on one of my systems > which is running *cough* XP pro. I think I've traced it down to a bad hard > drive, but I'm curious what symptoms you were seeing. > Thanks. At first, I was seeing random lockups (about one every two weeks). Sure, that could have been alot of things - bad memory, hot CPU, etc. I checked for all of these but found no problems. The failure seemed to only occur under load, so I ran 6 simultaneous Seti@Home jobs (on a 2 cpu machine), but then it refused to fail. One day, however, the disk started logging uncorrectable errors in the /var/log/messages file just before it locked up. It got bad enough that I had to work hard to recover a ReiserFS partition on that drive (did you know that ReiserFS has an fsck program? I do now!). I copied the data off of the drive, reformatted it, and put the data back. It worked fine for about 2 weeks, and then it got really bad (but still logging errors). I replaced the drive and have had no problems since. It was a 3 year old Seagate IDE drive (a little young by my standards and experience). Now, I have nothing but SCSI hard drives (I have yet to lose one of these, but I know that nothing lasts forever). Later, Andy -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org

May 15, 2002

Re: [Wlug] Locked up

by Gregory Avedissian

Thanks, Charles. I installed java 1.3.1 using directions that you gave me in march. That pop-ip installer never worked for me. Charles R. Anderson wrote: > After installation, do this (as root): > > cd /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins > rm libjavaplugin_oji.so I had to put that one back into the plugin directory to get it to work. This is all under my home directory, in .mozilla/plugins and not where I installed mozilla. > > ln -s /usr/java/jre1.3.1/plugin/i386/ns600/libjavaplugin_oji.so > > OR > > ln -s /usr/java/jdk1.3.1/jre/plugin/i386/ns600/libjavaplugin_oji.so > OK, I found two different places where the ns600 folder is. There's plugins/java2/i386/ns600/, and also plugins/plugin/i386/ns600. I made the sym link to the first one. Does it sound like I installed twice, from two different places? > > I would also try setting this environment variable before starting > Mozilla: > > bash$ export LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5 > > OR > > tcsh> setenv LD_ASSUME_KERNEL 2.2.5 > I didn't do that. What will it do, and should I know how to un-do it? > Then type mozilla in the same terminal window where you typed the export > or setenv command: > > bash$ mozilla > Oh, that reminds me of another problem. When I installed Mozilla 0.9.9, I didn't uninstall the older version. The old one still comes up when I select Mozilla from the SuSE menu. I put an alias in /etc/profile.local to call the new version up from command line. How involved is it to wipe out the old version and get the menu to point to the new one? I'm in fvwm2, so I suspect that messing with the menus is another subject entirely. I tried that before and had no luck. > More info is available about this problem at > http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84093 > I looked at the bug report, and if I understand it correctly, they're talking about a consistent problem. Most of the time, I have no trouble with java. I tested it, and it does work after intalling 1.3.1. I'll have to go for awhile and see if it happens again. Thank you all for your help. Greg

May 14, 2002

Re: [Wlug] Locked up

by Charles R. Anderson

On Tue, May 14, 2002 at 01:59:36AM -0400, Baris Hasdemir wrote: penguen> if you are using java 1.4, I recommend using version 1.3.1_03 . penguen> 1.4 causes more problems. penguen> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.3/download.html If you installed Java via the plugin installer window that pops up when going to a Java site for the first time, it installs the out of date version 1.3.0. I would recommend scrapping that version and getting 1.3.1 also. After installation, do this (as root): cd /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins rm libjavaplugin_oji.so ln -s /usr/java/jre1.3.1/plugin/i386/ns600/libjavaplugin_oji.so OR ln -s /usr/java/jdk1.3.1/jre/plugin/i386/ns600/libjavaplugin_oji.so (Directory names may be different for your installation. Just find where the ns600 version of libjavaplugin_oji.so is and symlink it into your mozilla/plugins directory) I would also try setting this environment variable before starting Mozilla: bash$ export LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5 OR tcsh> setenv LD_ASSUME_KERNEL 2.2.5 Then type mozilla in the same terminal window where you typed the export or setenv command: bash$ mozilla More info is available about this problem at http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84093 -- Charles R. Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> / http://angus.ind.wpi.edu/~cra/ PGP Key ID: 49BB5886 Fingerprint: EBA3 A106 7C93 FA07 8E15 3AC2 C367 A0F9 49BB 5886

May 14, 2002

RE: [Wlug] Locked up

by dibb_jim＠emc.com

Regarding the IDE hard drive going bad... can you elaborate more on the symptoms? I've been trying to track down system instability on one of my systems which is running *cough* XP pro. I think I've traced it down to a bad hard drive, but I'm curious what symptoms you were seeing. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Andy Stewart [mailto:andystewart@attbi.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 8:14 AM To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org; Gregory Avedissian Subject: Re: [Wlug] Locked up On Tuesday 14 May 2002 01:05, Gregory Avedissian wrote: > Still? I don't know, as I've never logged in remotely. Can I do this > from a friend's house next time it locks up? I'm not set up as a server, > and I don't really know what I'd need to change to do that. > > Could I do it with the parallel port connection that Andy is going to > talk about on Wednesday? > > Greg HI Greg, If you setup the parallel port connection between two computers (A and B) and insure that its working, when computer A locks up, you could try logging in over the parallel port connection from computer B to see if it really locked up or simply not responding to keyboard/mouse input. Lockups really stink. It took me several weeks to finally figure out my problem (an IDE hard drive slowly going bad). Memtest is great - definitely try it out. I would also recommend the Cerberus Test Control System program (ctcs). It is the program used by VA Linux to burn in their hardware. It does some *really* stressful things to the hardware and will find anything that is flaky (supposedly). Later, Andy -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

May 14, 2002

Re: [Wlug] Locked up

by Andy Stewart

On Tuesday 14 May 2002 01:05, Gregory Avedissian wrote: > Still? I don't know, as I've never logged in remotely. Can I do this > from a friend's house next time it locks up? I'm not set up as a server, > and I don't really know what I'd need to change to do that. > > Could I do it with the parallel port connection that Andy is going to > talk about on Wednesday? > > Greg HI Greg, If you setup the parallel port connection between two computers (A and B) and insure that its working, when computer A locks up, you could try logging in over the parallel port connection from computer B to see if it really locked up or simply not responding to keyboard/mouse input. Lockups really stink. It took me several weeks to finally figure out my problem (an IDE hard drive slowly going bad). Memtest is great - definitely try it out. I would also recommend the Cerberus Test Control System program (ctcs). It is the program used by VA Linux to burn in their hardware. It does some *really* stressful things to the hardware and will find anything that is flaky (supposedly). Later, Andy -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org

May 14, 2002

Re: [Wlug] Locked up

by Karl Hiramoto

First I would try and eliminate the possibility that it's a HW problem. Try Memetest86 http://www.teresaudio.com/memtest86/ Run it overnight, or better yet, 24+ hours. If you see ONE error you have a big problem. If Memtest86 doesn't find anything, chances are that your Memory, Mobo are good. It's good for finding memory, mobo, and cpu problems. What kind of memory? ECC? Have scrubbing turned on? So it happens under both linux and windowz? If it happens uder two OS's there is a good chance it is a hardware problem or a BIOS configuration issue. Reset you BIOS to "Safe Values", Borrow a keyboard and see if that fixes it. It would be a cheap fix if that's all it is. Like Michael said, try and login remotely next time it happens. I HATE LOCKUPS. The worst are when you have broken memory/mobo. Memtest 86 is good at finding those. On Tue, 14 May 2002, Gregory Avedissian wrote: > Sometimes my computer locks up completely, so that neither the mouse nor > the keyboard will work. I'm running SuSE 7.2 on an Athlon 1.2GHz/Shuttle > Spacewalker AK12A, 256M memory. > > It seems to happen when I'm in a chat room. Running Mozilla 0.9.9 with > recent Java plugin, also running Yahoo Instant Messenger, and it seems > like things were loading very slowly in the chatroom all the times this > had happened. I'm on a dialup line, so when I say slow, I mean like > go-and-make-tea slow. Otherwise, the connection is ok (46.6K) when > loading other pages. > > ctrl-alt-backspace does nothing, alt-F2,3 etc. does nothing, same for > ctrl-D, ctrl-C, ctrl-Z, ctrl-alt-Fx. I had to hit the kill switch. This > last time, it wasn't too bad, but the time before this, rebooting to > linux was pretty scary. This only happens once every couple of weeks. > > I'm suspicious of the keyboard, because it persisted once when I > rebooted to win98, then it cleared when I rebooted once more, first > wiggling the wire where it goes into the keyboard. > > Does it sound at all like a software problem, or should I just ignore it > and replace the keyboard? And is there some other way to bail out that I > haven't tried? > > > Thanks, > Greg > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > -- ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø Karl Hiramoto <karl(a)hiramoto.org> Work: 978-425-2090 ext 25 Cell: 508-517-4819 Personal web page: http://karl.hiramoto.org/ Zoop Productions: http://www.zoop.org/ KTEQ Rapid City: http://www.kteq.org/ AOL IM ID = KarlH420 ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø QOTD: Some people have one of those days. I've had one of those lives.

May 14, 2002

Re: [Wlug] Locked up

by Baris Hasdemir

hi, if you are using java 1.4, I recommend using version 1.3.1_03 . 1.4 causes more problems. http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.3/download.html best wishes, baris On Tue, 14 May 2002 00:03:04 -0400 Gregory Avedissian wrote: > Sometimes my computer locks up completely, so that neither the mouse nor > the keyboard will work. I'm running SuSE 7.2 on an Athlon 1.2GHz/Shuttle > Spacewalker AK12A, 256M memory. > > It seems to happen when I'm in a chat room. Running Mozilla 0.9.9 with > recent Java plugin, also running Yahoo Instant Messenger, and it seems > like things were loading very slowly in the chatroom all the times this > had happened. I'm on a dialup line, so when I say slow, I mean like > go-and-make-tea slow. Otherwise, the connection is ok (46.6K) when > loading other pages. > > ctrl-alt-backspace does nothing, alt-F2,3 etc. does nothing, same for > ctrl-D, ctrl-C, ctrl-Z, ctrl-alt-Fx. I had to hit the kill switch. This > last time, it wasn't too bad, but the time before this, rebooting to > linux was pretty scary. This only happens once every couple of weeks. > > I'm suspicious of the keyboard, because it persisted once when I > rebooted to win98, then it cleared when I rebooted once more, first > wiggling the wire where it goes into the keyboard. > > Does it sound at all like a software problem, or should I just ignore it > and replace the keyboard? And is there some other way to bail out that I > haven't tried? > > > Thanks, > Greg > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

May 14, 2002

Re: [Wlug] Locked up

by Gregory Avedissian

Still? I don't know, as I've never logged in remotely. Can I do this from a friend's house next time it locks up? I'm not set up as a server, and I don't really know what I'd need to change to do that. Could I do it with the parallel port connection that Andy is going to talk about on Wednesday? Greg Michael Frysinger wrote: > you describe issues via just the mouse and keyboard. > can you still login remotely to the computer ? > i.e. can you ssh/telnet into it, or even get a ping response ? > -mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gregory Avedissian" <avedis(a)ma.ultranet.com> > To: <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org> > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 00:03 > Subject: [Wlug] Locked up > > > >>Sometimes my computer locks up completely, so that neither the mouse nor >>the keyboard will work. I'm running SuSE 7.2 on an Athlon 1.2GHz/Shuttle >>Spacewalker AK12A, 256M memory. >> >>It seems to happen when I'm in a chat room. Running Mozilla 0.9.9 with >>recent Java plugin, also running Yahoo Instant Messenger, and it seems >>like things were loading very slowly in the chatroom all the times this >>had happened. I'm on a dialup line, so when I say slow, I mean like >>go-and-make-tea slow. Otherwise, the connection is ok (46.6K) when >>loading other pages. >> >>ctrl-alt-backspace does nothing, alt-F2,3 etc. does nothing, same for >>ctrl-D, ctrl-C, ctrl-Z, ctrl-alt-Fx. I had to hit the kill switch. This >>last time, it wasn't too bad, but the time before this, rebooting to >>linux was pretty scary. This only happens once every couple of weeks. >> >>I'm suspicious of the keyboard, because it persisted once when I >>rebooted to win98, then it cleared when I rebooted once more, first >>wiggling the wire where it goes into the keyboard. >> >>Does it sound at all like a software problem, or should I just ignore it >>and replace the keyboard? And is there some other way to bail out that I >>haven't tried? >> >> >>Thanks, >>Greg >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Wlug mailing list >>Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org >>http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

May 14, 2002

Locked up

by Gregory Avedissian

Sometimes my computer locks up completely, so that neither the mouse nor the keyboard will work. I'm running SuSE 7.2 on an Athlon 1.2GHz/Shuttle Spacewalker AK12A, 256M memory. It seems to happen when I'm in a chat room. Running Mozilla 0.9.9 with recent Java plugin, also running Yahoo Instant Messenger, and it seems like things were loading very slowly in the chatroom all the times this had happened. I'm on a dialup line, so when I say slow, I mean like go-and-make-tea slow. Otherwise, the connection is ok (46.6K) when loading other pages. ctrl-alt-backspace does nothing, alt-F2,3 etc. does nothing, same for ctrl-D, ctrl-C, ctrl-Z, ctrl-alt-Fx. I had to hit the kill switch. This last time, it wasn't too bad, but the time before this, rebooting to linux was pretty scary. This only happens once every couple of weeks. I'm suspicious of the keyboard, because it persisted once when I rebooted to win98, then it cleared when I rebooted once more, first wiggling the wire where it goes into the keyboard. Does it sound at all like a software problem, or should I just ignore it and replace the keyboard? And is there some other way to bail out that I haven't tried? Thanks, Greg

May 14, 2002

Re: [Wlug] Locked up

by Michael Frysinger

you describe issues via just the mouse and keyboard. can you still login remotely to the computer ? i.e. can you ssh/telnet into it, or even get a ping response ? -mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregory Avedissian" <avedis(a)ma.ultranet.com> To: <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 00:03 Subject: [Wlug] Locked up > Sometimes my computer locks up completely, so that neither the mouse nor > the keyboard will work. I'm running SuSE 7.2 on an Athlon 1.2GHz/Shuttle > Spacewalker AK12A, 256M memory. > > It seems to happen when I'm in a chat room. Running Mozilla 0.9.9 with > recent Java plugin, also running Yahoo Instant Messenger, and it seems > like things were loading very slowly in the chatroom all the times this > had happened. I'm on a dialup line, so when I say slow, I mean like > go-and-make-tea slow. Otherwise, the connection is ok (46.6K) when > loading other pages. > > ctrl-alt-backspace does nothing, alt-F2,3 etc. does nothing, same for > ctrl-D, ctrl-C, ctrl-Z, ctrl-alt-Fx. I had to hit the kill switch. This > last time, it wasn't too bad, but the time before this, rebooting to > linux was pretty scary. This only happens once every couple of weeks. > > I'm suspicious of the keyboard, because it persisted once when I > rebooted to win98, then it cleared when I rebooted once more, first > wiggling the wire where it goes into the keyboard. > > Does it sound at all like a software problem, or should I just ignore it > and replace the keyboard? And is there some other way to bail out that I > haven't tried? > > > Thanks, > Greg > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

May 13, 2002

Re: [Wlug] REMINDER: Meeting Wed, May 15th

by Robert L Krawitz

From: Andy Stewart <andystewart(a)attbi.com> Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:10:48 -0400 At this meeting, Andy Stewart will give a short presentation about his recent experiences with PLIP (Parallel Line Internet Protocol). The Linux PLIP software allows the user to connect two computers together via their printer ports. A network is run between the parallel interfaces. If you ever wanted to build a cheap, quick (as in rapid setup), and dirty point-to-point network that actually functions, this is it. Speaking of parallel port hacking, I want to do some parallel port line sniffing to determine exactly what command sequence the Windows driver sends to a particular printer. Has anyone done anything like this? Is the simplest thing likely to be to simply set up Samba on the Linux box and strace it? -- Robert Krawitz <rlk(a)alum.mit.edu> http://www.tiac.net/users/rlk/ Tall Clubs International -- http://www.tall.org/ or 1-888-IM-TALL-2 Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- mail lpf(a)uunet.uu.net Project lead for Gimp Print/stp -- http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net "Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works." --Eric Crampton

May 13, 2002

REMINDER: Meeting Wed, May 15th

by Andy Stewart

HI everybody, This is a reminder about the upcoming WLUG meeting to be held this Wednesday evening, May 15th, at 7:00 PM in Kinnicutt Hall on the WPI campus. At this meeting, Andy Stewart will give a short presentation about his recent experiences with PLIP (Parallel Line Internet Protocol). The Linux PLIP software allows the user to connect two computers together via their printer ports. A network is run between the parallel interfaces. If you ever wanted to build a cheap, quick (as in rapid setup), and dirty point-to-point network that actually functions, this is it. If two people would like to bring their laptops, I'll bring the cable and we can try a live demo. Be sure you have parport, parport_pc, and plip compiled as modules. My cable has male DB25 connectors. As I don't expect the PLIP presentation to be lengthy, if there are others who would like to do a quick presentation, please let me know. Afterwards, we'll visit the Boynton Restaurant for pizza and beer. All are invited to attend. See ya later! Andy -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org

May 13, 2002

Compaq auction

by Michelle Vadeboncoeur

http://www.dovebid.com/Auctions/AuctionDetail.asp?AuctionID=1260 Compaq out of Houston, TX is having a webcast auction on 5/14 of a bunch of their stuff (check the equipment catalog), ranging from the office TVs and video projectors, to monitors, servers, storage arrays, desktops, individual cards, etc. Looks like some nice stuff. 8) I thought that you guys might be interested in perhaps picking up something, hopefully on the inexpensive side. Sorry for the late notice, though. -- --==*==-- --==*==-- Michelle R. Vadeboncoeur --==*==-- --==*==-- mrv(a)kluge.net: http://www.kluge.net/~mrv/

May 11, 2002

Re: [Wlug] 2 month + Linux Kernel consulting job

by Lee Keyser-Allen

I just have to say since I managed to spawn such an impressive thread that it was 100% user error on my part ... The real problem is that I have a number of friends that use reply-to: and actually would like things sent there instead, so I have developed the habit of just hitting return whenever my helpful mailer decides to ask me that fateful question. Of course I could have (as Chuck so helpfully suggests) double checked the place where I was sending it as well, so I think that I can pretty confidently take full credit for this one. If someone would like to blame the list, don't let me get in the way, but in reality it's just a blunder of habit. Cheers, all! (P.S. yes, this one really is intended to go to the list :-P) On Thu, 9 May 2002, Josh Huber wrote: > "Charles R. Anderson" <cra(a)WPI.EDU> writes: > > > Yes. They should check the To: and Cc: headers for every single > > message they send, whether it is a personal message or not, on a > > mailing list or not. I don't think this is unreasonable. > > Well, okay. I almost always check the headers, but it is nice to have > consistency -- hit the reply key to send a message to the author of > the message you're reading. Hit the followup key to reply to everyone > (or, perhaps the Mail-Followup-To header contents). Hit the list > reply key to only reply to the list. I like the idea that from list > to list, you get a consistant behavior, with no surprises. (well, very > few hopefully ;) > > > huber> of them perform reply-to munging. So...I'm not sure what > > huber> lists you're subscribed to, but I find it odd that the > > huber> statistics are so > > > > The ISC's lists such as dhcp-server. > > Okay. Perhaps my stats are skewed because of the large number of > lists from lists.debian.org and lists.linuxppc.org which I'm > subscribed to. After checking I did notice one other list which does > this (making it 4 total, ~10%). > > > I don't really care either way, since I always check the To: and Cc: > > headers before hitting the final send button. In addition, my > > mailer asks "Reply to foo(a)bar.baz?" when a reply-to exists. > > Indeed, this is sensible behavior and would avoid most mistakes. > However, maybe most people are not using a sensible mailer? > (cheap-shot) > > > If people feel that it would be more appropriate to not munge the > > header in the mailing list software, it wouldn't bother me if it was > > changed. > > Well, you have my vote to have it removed. Of course, it's ultimately > up to the list admin. > > -- Lee Keyser-Allen lkeyser(a)wpi.edu WPI CS 2002

May 9, 2002

Re: [Wlug] 2 month + Linux Kernel consulting job

by Josh Huber

"Charles R. Anderson" <cra(a)WPI.EDU> writes: > Yes. They should check the To: and Cc: headers for every single > message they send, whether it is a personal message or not, on a > mailing list or not. I don't think this is unreasonable. Well, okay. I almost always check the headers, but it is nice to have consistency -- hit the reply key to send a message to the author of the message you're reading. Hit the followup key to reply to everyone (or, perhaps the Mail-Followup-To header contents). Hit the list reply key to only reply to the list. I like the idea that from list to list, you get a consistant behavior, with no surprises. (well, very few hopefully ;) > huber> of them perform reply-to munging. So...I'm not sure what > huber> lists you're subscribed to, but I find it odd that the > huber> statistics are so > > The ISC's lists such as dhcp-server. Okay. Perhaps my stats are skewed because of the large number of lists from lists.debian.org and lists.linuxppc.org which I'm subscribed to. After checking I did notice one other list which does this (making it 4 total, ~10%). > I don't really care either way, since I always check the To: and Cc: > headers before hitting the final send button. In addition, my > mailer asks "Reply to foo(a)bar.baz?" when a reply-to exists. Indeed, this is sensible behavior and would avoid most mistakes. However, maybe most people are not using a sensible mailer? (cheap-shot) > If people feel that it would be more appropriate to not munge the > header in the mailing list software, it wouldn't bother me if it was > changed. Well, you have my vote to have it removed. Of course, it's ultimately up to the list admin. -- Josh Huber

May 9, 2002

Re: [Wlug] 2 month + Linux Kernel consulting job

by Charles R. Anderson

On Thu, May 09, 2002 at 03:31:10PM -0400, Josh Huber wrote: huber> Well, people are used to hitting reply to send a personal reply. huber> Should people have to check the headers for every list they're on? Yes. They should check the To: and Cc: headers for every single message they send, whether it is a personal message or not, on a mailing list or not. I don't think this is unreasonable. huber> of them perform reply-to munging. So...I'm not sure what lists you're huber> subscribed to, but I find it odd that the statistics are so The ISC's lists such as dhcp-server. huber> Now, it doesn't really affect me, since I just set broken-reply-to for huber> the wlug group, and it ignores the header, but I just like causing huber> trouble so I thought I'd mention it. ;) I don't really care either way, since I always check the To: and Cc: headers before hitting the final send button. In addition, my mailer asks "Reply to foo(a)bar.baz?" when a reply-to exists. If people feel that it would be more appropriate to not munge the header in the mailing list software, it wouldn't bother me if it was changed. -- Charles R. Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> / http://angus.ind.wpi.edu/~cra/ PGP Key ID: 49BB5886 Fingerprint: EBA3 A106 7C93 FA07 8E15 3AC2 C367 A0F9 49BB 5886

May 9, 2002

Re: [Wlug] 2 month + Linux Kernel consulting job

by Josh Huber

"Charles R. Anderson" <cra(a)WPI.EDU> writes: > What's even more interesting is that people don't check the headers > before sending email. Well, people are used to hitting reply to send a personal reply. Should people have to check the headers for every list they're on? > Most lists I'm on set the Reply-to: to the mailing list, and I've > never seen even one personal message accidentally sent to the list. Except for the one in this thread, right? Or did you not see that? ;) For the record, out of the 40 mailing lists I'm subscribed to only 3 of them perform reply-to munging. So...I'm not sure what lists you're subscribed to, but I find it odd that the statistics are so different. Almost as as for the other two lists which perform the munging, they are non-technical lists -- ALL other linux/development lists I'm on do not do this. Now, it doesn't really affect me, since I just set broken-reply-to for the wlug group, and it ignores the header, but I just like causing trouble so I thought I'd mention it. ;) have a nice day! -- Josh Huber

May 9, 2002

Re: [Wlug] 2 month + Linux Kernel consulting job

by Theo Van Dinter

On Thu, May 09, 2002 at 02:34:08PM -0400, Josh Huber wrote: > Indeed, it's pretty interesting that even after several people have > accidentally posted private messages to the list this broken header > munging still takes place. On a technical list no less! http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html -- Randomly Generated Tagline: "I don't know why, but first C programs tend to look a lot worse than first programs in any other language (maybe except for fortran, but then I suspect all fortran programs look like `firsts')" (By Olaf Kirch)

May 9, 2002

Re: [Wlug] 2 month + Linux Kernel consulting job

by Charles R. Anderson

On Thu, May 09, 2002 at 02:34:08PM -0400, Josh Huber wrote: huber> Indeed, it's pretty interesting that even after several people have huber> accidentally posted private messages to the list this broken header huber> munging still takes place. On a technical list no less! What's even more interesting is that people don't check the headers before sending email. Most lists I'm on set the Reply-to: to the mailing list, and I've never seen even one personal message accidentally sent to the list. -- Charles R. Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> / http://angus.ind.wpi.edu/~cra/ PGP Key ID: 49BB5886 Fingerprint: EBA3 A106 7C93 FA07 8E15 3AC2 C367 A0F9 49BB 5886

May 9, 2002

Re: [Wlug] 2 month + Linux Kernel consulting job

by Josh Huber

Lee Keyser-Allen <lkeyser(a)WPI.EDU> writes: > Doh.. damn reply-to: address Indeed, it's pretty interesting that even after several people have accidentally posted private messages to the list this broken header munging still takes place. On a technical list no less! ttyl, -- Josh Huber

May 9, 2002

Re: [Wlug] 2 month + Linux Kernel consulting job

by Lee Keyser-Allen

Doh.. damn reply-to: address :P -- Lee Keyser-Allen lkeyser(a)wpi.edu WPI CS 2002

May 9, 2002

Re: [Wlug] 2 month + Linux Kernel consulting job

by Lee Keyser-Allen

On Thu, 9 May 2002, Greg Donovan wrote: > We are seeking a consultant to perform some work for a customer of ours > leveraging Linux kernel and SCSI skills. It is a two month+ assignment with > a customer here in the Boston area. The work would be performed full time > on our customer's site. Here is a brief description of the work: What is the approximate time frame for this job (when would it start?) I have extensive Linux driver development experience, but I wouldn't be available until mid-july. If that still works for you, you can find my resume at http://www.jumblebox.com/~lkeyser/resume.html Cheers, Lee -- Lee Keyser-Allen lkeyser(a)wpi.edu WPI CS 2002

May 9, 2002

2 month + Linux Kernel consulting job

by Greg Donovan

Dear WLUG, Thank you for allowing me to send this communication to your members. Optimal Engineering Partners provides embedded software and hardware development expertise within the communications, wireless, storage, and medical industries. Cumulatively the founding employees of Optimal Engineering possess many years of knowledge and contacts within these sectors, and the extent of our expertise within this space will be evident in the quality and responsiveness of the services we provide. We are seeking a consultant to perform some work for a customer of ours leveraging Linux kernel and SCSI skills. It is a two month+ assignment with a customer here in the Boston area. The work would be performed full time on our customer's site. Here is a brief description of the work: Our client is completing a port of Linux 2.42 to their fault tolerant platform and need assistance in finishing the effort. Must have strong debugging skills, storage SCSI or Fiber Channel and Linux kernel experience. Linux SCSI is a major plus. Please feel free to contact me if you or someone you know might be a match for this role. We pay a generous referral fee. Thank you. -Greg Greg Donovan OPTIMAL ENGINEERING PARTNERS "Resources and Expertise for Embedded Systems Development" (978) 256-1113 ext 103 gdonovan(a)optimaleng.com

May 9, 2002

Re: [Wlug] stderr v. stdout

by jkinz＠ultranet.com

On Thu, May 09, 2002 at 09:41:07AM -0400, Bill Mills-Curran wrote: > I can't believe I'm revisiting this yet again... I'm struggling with > identifying "standard practice" for deciding when to write to stdout > v. stderr. In particular, I'm working with processes associated with > software maintenance (building, copying, SCM, etc.). I'd love to find > a definitive whitepaper on the subject. Does anyone have any Bill - I don't think I've ever seen a whitepaper addressing this particular subject, but the standard practice is very easy to identify. I have a very straightforward approach to this issue. 1. For all Unix commands - say nothing unless the command fails or encounters an error condition. All error messages go to stderr. 2. For all filters (programs which produce output on stdout) only the normal program output goes to stdout. Many normal Unix commands can be used as filters. Like "ls" for example. All error messages go to stderr. 3. Any debugging info activated by command line options or environment variables should go to stderr. For tools used in building software, like "make" emulate make's behavior which follows rule 1 above. Commands executed by make are echoed to stdout and all diagnostic info is directed to stderr. If you invoke the following makefile with the command "make 1>/dev/null" you will see only the diagnostic output. Invoked by just "makefile" gives you both. ###### Makefile starts here. all: boo foo boo: echo "stdout OUTPUT" > /dev/null foo: glarf STDERR ONLY nadba ############# makefile ends here.

May 9, 2002