- WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

Login successfull on an ftp server, but could not run any command!!

by Aramico

Hi all, I have configured my INternet Gateway using ipchains by implementing the MASQ connection on some defined port in order to enable the internet connection for my client. Finally, I got this bellow message: ftp> ls -l 502 Illegal PORT Command 150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for directory listing. How can it be like that ? Login was successfull, but I permitted nothing to run the command. Can you help me ? Browsing, receiving and sending mail, etc are working fine. Except this one, using ftp. For FTP Setting , this is my ipchains settings : # FTP ipchains -I forward -s 192.168.21.0/24 -d 0/0 20 -j MASQ -p tcp ipchains -I forward -s 192.168.21.0/24 -d 0/0 20 -j MASQ -p udp ipchains -I forward -s 192.168.21.0/24 -d 0/0 21 -j MASQ -p tcp ipchains -I forward -s 192.168.21.0/24 -d 0/0 21 -j MASQ -p udp ipchains -I forward -s 192.168.21.0/24 -d 0/0 69 -j MASQ -p tcp ipchains -I forward -s 192.168.21.0/24 -d 0/0 69 -j MASQ -p udp ipchains -I forward -s 192.168.21.0/24 -d 0/0 115 -j MASQ -p tcp ipchains -I forward -s 192.168.21.0/24 -d 0/0 115 -j MASQ -p udp ipchains -I forward -s 192.168.21.0/24 -d 0/0 2431 -j MASQ -p tcp ipchains -I forward -s 192.168.21.0/24 -d 0/0 2431 -j MASQ -p udp Thanks. Aramico

Nov. 14, 2003

Revolution OS

by swillis＠WPI.EDU

The Worcester Area Student Chapter of the ACM based at WPI will be showing the film "Revolution OS" (www.revolution-os.com) Friday the 21st at 7:30pm in Fuller Auditorium, on the WPI campus. We would like to invite all those in the Worcester Linux Users' Group to join us to watch this film. The film is a documentary about Linux and the whole open-source/free software movement. "REVOLUTION OS features interviews with Linus Torvalds, Richard Stallman, Bruce Perens, Eric Raymond, Brian Behlendorf, Michael Tiemann, Larry Augustin, Frank Hecker, and Rob Malda. To view the trailer or the first eight minutes go to the ifilm website for REVOLUTION OS." The showing is free to all (in more ways than one). There will also be food and drink available for purchase. Recap: What: Revolution OS Where: Fuller Auditorium, WPI campus When: Friday, November 21st 7:30pm Why: Freedom -Steven Willis P.S. All are welcome to come, so let your friends, professors, students, and families know about it.

Nov. 14, 2003

Re: [Wlug] df confused?, just a thought :-)

by doug waud

Hi Chuck Homic wrote: > > Forget it. > > To answer my own question... since it's been around 3 hours since I sent > this message... one of my base packages was out-of-date. (disktools or > something like that, I don't remember) I have no idea why it was > confused, but having the solution, I don't much care anymore. ;) Do you think it could be anything like the way Canadian $ and US $ come out differently? :-) doug

Nov. 14, 2003

Re: [Wlug] Debian to RH 9 Migration

by Karl Hiramoto

I personally would not install RH9 on anything new since Redhat is discontinuing security updates to Redhat 9 in April. Upgrade to some other distro. Guideline: 1. make a backup :) 2. install new distro 3. restore the files that you need. On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Chuck Noyes wrote: > Has anyone tried this? I don't what version of Debian is currently being > used. > Any guidelines for this kind of migration. > > Thanks, > -Chuck > > -- ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø Karl Hiramoto <karl(a)hiramoto.org> Work: 978-425-2090 ext 25 Cell: 508-517-4819 http://karl.hiramoto.org/ AOL IM ID = KarlH420 Yahoo_IM = karl_hiramoto ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø A man of genius makes no mistakes. His errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery. -- James Joyce, "Ulysses"

Nov. 14, 2003

Debian to RH 9 Migration

by Chuck Noyes

Has anyone tried this? I don't what version of Debian is currently being used. Any guidelines for this kind of migration. Thanks, -Chuck -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Nov. 14, 2003

Re: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show...

by Stephen C. Daukas

I agree. In fact, I made the same point in my first post. What I was trying to suggest was that while the intro stuff was taking place as usual, reference could be made periodically to a configuration taking place in the background. Not syaing how to do it, but that it is being done during the show. The point here is subtle, but powerful... in the time it takes someone to watch the intro show, someone who gets with WLUG/watches other WLUG shows would be able to configure a complete system in a short period of time... Doug Chamberlin wrote: > At 11/13/2003 04:51 PM (Thursday), Stephen C. Daukas wrote: > >> Yes, but I think we might be able to get a bit more in... What you >> describe could be scripted to take less time, depending on the goals... >> We could do the overview in tandem with configuration work taking >> place and "check in" with that progress during the show. After 20 >> minutes or so, show a completely configured running system/server and >> then hit them with "if you want to know more..." >> >> Good? Bad? > > > Generally not a good idea. One basic mistake often made when designing > a new production like this is to try to pack too much into one > session. Similar to a teacher trying to cover too much material in one > class. You generally end up losing everyone - just in different ways > and a different times. > > Better to have one intro show as already described and then a second > show which walks through a complete sample install process. This show > would display the machine's screen as someone talks the viewer through > what he is seeing. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > -- Stephen C. Daukas - stephen(a)daukas.com - http://daukas.com/

Nov. 14, 2003

Re: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show...

by Doug Chamberlin

At 11/13/2003 04:51 PM (Thursday), Stephen C. Daukas wrote: >Yes, but I think we might be able to get a bit more in... What you >describe could be scripted to take less time, depending on the goals... >We could do the overview in tandem with configuration work taking place >and "check in" with that progress during the show. After 20 minutes or >so, show a completely configured running system/server and then hit them >with "if you want to know more..." > >Good? Bad? Generally not a good idea. One basic mistake often made when designing a new production like this is to try to pack too much into one session. Similar to a teacher trying to cover too much material in one class. You generally end up losing everyone - just in different ways and a different times. Better to have one intro show as already described and then a second show which walks through a complete sample install process. This show would display the machine's screen as someone talks the viewer through what he is seeing.

Nov. 13, 2003

Re: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show...

by Stephen C. Daukas

Yes, but I think we might be able to get a bit more in... What you describe could be scripted to take less time, depending on the goals... We could do the overview in tandem with configuration work taking place and "check in" with that progress during the show. After 20 minutes or so, show a completely configured running system/server and then hit them with "if you want to know more..." Good? Bad? Keller, Tim wrote: >Then maybe we should go in that direction. Give a five minute explanation >about what linux is and where it came from and then talk about what a >distribution is and the companies that make them. > >Then go on to talk about why you'd want to use linux (stability, resilience >to viruses, breathing life into old hardware, etc.) > >Then take the remaining 15 minutes to show off the interface, mozilla, >evolution, xmms and gnumoney. > >Then finish up with a blurb about WLUG (who, what, where and when). > >Does that sound sensible? > >Tim. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Stephen C. Daukas [mailto:stephen@daukas.com] >Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 5:40 PM >To: Worcester Linux Users Group >Subject: Re: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show... > > >I have a few thoughts to offer... > >Given the format of Community Access Programming on local cable, you >have 30 minutes. Period. (At least in Shrewsbury.) If my experience >in the past with these productions holds true, you don't have a lot of >time to work with and it is very rare to see a multi part show, even >from long established programming. (Never mind the editing and work >that goes on behind the scences - 30 minutes translates into weeks of work.) > >30 minutes isn't a lot of time. Even a high school class is 47 minutes >these days, and that gets you one topic, say for example, work = force x >distance. There will not be time enough to adress more than once >audience, or more than one simple topic for that matter! > >If you are about to say "but wait, we don't have to limit ourselves to >30 minutes, we can produce what we want" then I would answer, that's >true! But, just as true is my next question - who you gonna show it to >and how? > >So, now that we have established the cart and the horse, we need to make >a few decisions... > >I'm thinking that 30 minutes is just enough time (barely) to show a >"teaser" piece that talks about Linux "the product" and what it can do. >No techno-geek talk (because you will invariable try to cover too much >in too little time), just something that will interest the audience >enough to want more. 30 minutes is just enough time to show everyone >how they can configure a Linux server to support their own real estate >business or construction business or oil business or... as well as >interest the experienced novice who might want to try getting out from >under their ISP. > >When they want more, then you can talk about follow-up episodes, or >direct them to WLUG at the end of the episode (or both). The WLUG site >could have video available, metting topics, and so forth... > >Steve > > > >_______________________________________________ >Wlug mailing list >Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org >http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >_______________________________________________ >Wlug mailing list >Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org >http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > > -- Stephen C. Daukas - stephen(a)daukas.com - http://daukas.com/

Nov. 13, 2003

Re: [Wlug] df confused?

by Chuck Homic

Forget it. To answer my own question... since it's been around 3 hours since I sent this message... one of my base packages was out-of-date. (disktools or something like that, I don't remember) I have no idea why it was confused, but having the solution, I don't much care anymore. ;) On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 05:07:58PM -0500, Chuck Homic wrote: > I got this output from df: > > Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on > /dev/hda7 1381 843 468 65% / > /dev/hda1 10 4 6 36% /boot > /dev/hda5 248 1 235 1% /tmp > > df -H produces the not-so-different: > > Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on > /dev/hda7 1.4M 866k 477k 65% / > /dev/hda1 10k 3.5k 6.2k 36% /boot > /dev/hda5 254k 14 241k 1% /tmp > > My disk is 8GB, and although I believe the percentages are correct, this > is a little unnerving. Any idea why df would be confused? Or have I > created the most amazing single-floppy distribution ever?!? > > This is a system I just un-mothballed, it's mostly an older debian sid > that I'm slowly upgrading to latest in stages. Could this be something > out of date with respect to something else? > > -Chuck > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Nov. 13, 2003

df confused?

by Chuck Homic

I got this output from df: Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/hda7 1381 843 468 65% / /dev/hda1 10 4 6 36% /boot /dev/hda5 248 1 235 1% /tmp df -H produces the not-so-different: Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/hda7 1.4M 866k 477k 65% / /dev/hda1 10k 3.5k 6.2k 36% /boot /dev/hda5 254k 14 241k 1% /tmp My disk is 8GB, and although I believe the percentages are correct, this is a little unnerving. Any idea why df would be confused? Or have I created the most amazing single-floppy distribution ever?!? This is a system I just un-mothballed, it's mostly an older debian sid that I'm slowly upgrading to latest in stages. Could this be something out of date with respect to something else? -Chuck

Nov. 12, 2003

Re: [Wlug] Linux Desktop Conference

by Al Reinhart

> I'm wondering if anybody went to the Linux Desktop conference in Tyngsboro > yesterday, and if so, what did you think of it? The NY Times reaction to the conference: I.B.M. Helps Promote Linux By STEVE LOHR I.B.M. and a group of other technology companies are beginning a drive to promote Linux as an alternative to Microsoft's Windows. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/11/technology/11blue.html?th

Nov. 12, 2003

RE: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show...

by Keller, Tim

Then maybe we should go in that direction. Give a five minute explanation about what linux is and where it came from and then talk about what a distribution is and the companies that make them. Then go on to talk about why you'd want to use linux (stability, resilience to viruses, breathing life into old hardware, etc.) Then take the remaining 15 minutes to show off the interface, mozilla, evolution, xmms and gnumoney. Then finish up with a blurb about WLUG (who, what, where and when). Does that sound sensible? Tim. -----Original Message----- From: Stephen C. Daukas [mailto:stephen@daukas.com] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 5:40 PM To: Worcester Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show... I have a few thoughts to offer... Given the format of Community Access Programming on local cable, you have 30 minutes. Period. (At least in Shrewsbury.) If my experience in the past with these productions holds true, you don't have a lot of time to work with and it is very rare to see a multi part show, even from long established programming. (Never mind the editing and work that goes on behind the scences - 30 minutes translates into weeks of work.) 30 minutes isn't a lot of time. Even a high school class is 47 minutes these days, and that gets you one topic, say for example, work = force x distance. There will not be time enough to adress more than once audience, or more than one simple topic for that matter! If you are about to say "but wait, we don't have to limit ourselves to 30 minutes, we can produce what we want" then I would answer, that's true! But, just as true is my next question - who you gonna show it to and how? So, now that we have established the cart and the horse, we need to make a few decisions... I'm thinking that 30 minutes is just enough time (barely) to show a "teaser" piece that talks about Linux "the product" and what it can do. No techno-geek talk (because you will invariable try to cover too much in too little time), just something that will interest the audience enough to want more. 30 minutes is just enough time to show everyone how they can configure a Linux server to support their own real estate business or construction business or oil business or... as well as interest the experienced novice who might want to try getting out from under their ISP. When they want more, then you can talk about follow-up episodes, or direct them to WLUG at the end of the episode (or both). The WLUG site could have video available, metting topics, and so forth... Steve _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Nov. 12, 2003

Re: [Wlug] Linux Desktop Conference

by Doug Chamberlin

At 11/11/2003 08:37 AM (Tuesday), you wrote: >I'm wondering if anybody went to the Linux Desktop conference in Tyngsboro >yesterday, and if so, what did you think of it? I went and learned a lot and had a good time. Lots of positive energy and chance to meet people. Minor logistical problems (less than is often seen for a first time event). Too bad it was just one day! Lots of Linux community luminaries were present. Good, thoughtful reflections on the state of Linux, open software, recent industry changes. Also, lots of practitioners who described real world experiences and successes. Bruce Perens says the biggest danger to Linux overall is software patents (but he thinks the SCO situation is almost over and will have no lasting impact on the scene). Next biggest danger is digital rights management efforts of content creators (a la RIAA). Best defense is support of EFF. Bruce says go to www.groklaw.net for a good analysis of the SCO legalities by a para-legal. Several case studies were described of government orgs and schools converting to Linux. An interesting observation was made that these are mainly outside the USA. Several demos showing the status of the Linux desktop as a viable alternative to Windows. Some talks by KDE and Gnome developers on their current work and plans. Bruce Perrins thinks IBM purchase/merger with Novell/Suse is likely. A major observation for me was that, in the cases of migration to Linux, the biggest cost category was "application migration" - not hardware, software, licensing, training, or support. costs. That is big for me since I do contract application development. Would love to help anyone re-implement Windows apps on Linux. Great talk on Linux terminal Server Project (http://www.ltsp.org/) This stuff works. Great way to use older machines but the best were the low cost, no moving parts remote boxes. No local storage but fully functional otherwise. These guys sell them as well as use them. Jill Ratkevic did an amazing job to pull this off. Apparently this is not the last of these gatherings. If you would like to see more of them join & support the Desktop Linux Consortium at http://www.desktoplinux.com/ (membership is $ free). That's all of the top of my head and not nearly a complete report. Doug C.

Nov. 11, 2003

Linux Desktop Conference

by Andy Stewart

HI everybody, I'm wondering if anybody went to the Linux Desktop conference in Tyngsboro yesterday, and if so, what did you think of it? Later, Andy -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org

Nov. 11, 2003

Re: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show...

by Stephen C. Daukas

I have a few thoughts to offer... Given the format of Community Access Programming on local cable, you have 30 minutes. Period. (At least in Shrewsbury.) If my experience in the past with these productions holds true, you don't have a lot of time to work with and it is very rare to see a multi part show, even from long established programming. (Never mind the editing and work that goes on behind the scences - 30 minutes translates into weeks of work.) 30 minutes isn't a lot of time. Even a high school class is 47 minutes these days, and that gets you one topic, say for example, work = force x distance. There will not be time enough to adress more than once audience, or more than one simple topic for that matter! If you are about to say "but wait, we don't have to limit ourselves to 30 minutes, we can produce what we want" then I would answer, that's true! But, just as true is my next question - who you gonna show it to and how? So, now that we have established the cart and the horse, we need to make a few decisions... I'm thinking that 30 minutes is just enough time (barely) to show a "teaser" piece that talks about Linux "the product" and what it can do. No techno-geek talk (because you will invariable try to cover too much in too little time), just something that will interest the audience enough to want more. 30 minutes is just enough time to show everyone how they can configure a Linux server to support their own real estate business or construction business or oil business or... as well as interest the experienced novice who might want to try getting out from under their ISP. When they want more, then you can talk about follow-up episodes, or direct them to WLUG at the end of the episode (or both). The WLUG site could have video available, metting topics, and so forth... Steve

Nov. 10, 2003

Fwd: Re: Deal for LUG members

by Andy Stewart

---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Conference update Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 15:08:53 -0800 From: Jill Ratkevic <j.ratkevic(a)verizon.net> To: andystewart(a)comcast.net Hi Andy: I wanted to let you know we have had a great turnout on folks who want to come for the reduced rate, but one member was charged the full amount and contacted me. Anyone who entered the discount code of "Jill" in the how did you hear about the conference field WILLl get the reduced rate and I will personally honor that. Late Fri, Xandros agreed to underwrite the rest of the tickets. If this has happened to anyone, it will be fixed first thing Monday morning. On a Saturday I am limited in what I can do to reverse it, but I wanted to be sure you were aware right away of this and that you knew I was personally making sure this was fixed. Best regards, Jill Ratkevic DesktopLinuxConsortium jill(a)desktoplinuxconsortium.org 4008-209-5181 ------------------------------------------------------- -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org

Nov. 9, 2003

Fwd: Re: Deal for LUG members

by Andy Stewart

---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: Deal for LUG members Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 23:42:28 -0800 From: Jill Ratkevic <j.ratkevic(a)verizon.net> To: andystewart(a)comcast.net Hi, the easiest way to do it is to sign up directly. Tell your members to go to: Go to http://www.butrain.com, click on Desktop Linux Conference When they go to pay, in the "where did you hear about the conference box" type in "Jill" They will be charged $25.00. There are about 75 left as of this AM. But I know we have had quite a few inquiries. They are sponsored so I would like to see someone benefit :) cheers, Jill Ratkevic Desktop Linux Conference jill(a)desktoplinuxconsortium.org Andy Stewart wrote: >Hello, > >I am writing to inquire about the "deal for LUG members" who wish to attend >the Boston Desktop Linux conference for $25.00. I have had a couple of >inquiries from the WLUG membership and thought I'd ask. > >Thanks! > >Andy ------------------------------------------------------- -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org

Nov. 8, 2003

Re: [Wlug] Linux Desktop Conference

by Andy Stewart

On Friday 07 November 2003 11:11 pm, Matt Higgins wrote: > Not sure of the details on this but it could be cool. I think Andy would > have to contact the address on the bottem of the page. > > http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/11/07/1957226 > > -Matt Hi Matt, I've sent a query to the link posted on that page. I'll let you all know if/when I get a reply. Andy -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org

Nov. 8, 2003

Linux Desktop Conference

by Matt Higgins

Not sure of the details on this but it could be cool. I think Andy would have to contact the address on the bottem of the page. http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/11/07/1957226 -Matt

Nov. 8, 2003

Re: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show...

by Walt Sawyer

I checked with Shrewsbury's studio; all we need is one Shrewsbury resident to be the sponser to use their studio. The resident must fill out a form and they become a member. No costs are involved to be a member. We may have to buy some tapes; they use miniDV for digital recording. Anyone who uses the equipment must get a bit of training. That's not a big deal. Walt On Thu, 2003-11-06 at 10:38, Keller, Tim wrote: > For those who didn't attend the meeting last night, we talked a little about > the idea of producing a linux focused TV Show. From that discussion we > decided that the best thing to-do would be to have the main part of the > discussion through the mail list. > > So, here it is... > > Firstly, I think we need to decide who our target audience is. This morning > I came up with notion that generally, users can be broken into several > groups. > > The first group are novice users. These are people who use a computer, but > the concept of an operating system or the idea that windows isn't just "part > of the system" and not removable is alien. > > The second group is "advanced" users. I think most of us would fall into > this group. We understand OS's, hardware, software and all the digital glue > that holds it together. > > The third group is educational users. These would be people who work in > some education institution and they're interest in linux would be from the > standpoint of deploying it for cost savings and/or using it as an education > tool for teaching. > > The forth group would be corporate suit types. These are the people who > read the trade rags, but don't have a clear understanding of what linux. > They've read lots of conflicting FUD on the subject and aren't sure how > linux could be used in they're environment or what the real TCO would be. > > Personally, I think we should go after groups 1-3. The reason I'm not too > worried about the fourth type is that now that redhat had decided that > they're going to go full force into the enterprise environment, they'll be > busy spending lots of PR dollars convincing the suits. > > What do people think. Also, if it is the consensus that we should focus on > groups 1-3, should we narrow our focus even more? > > Thanks, > Tim. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > [image] [image] [image] Walt Sawyer wsawyer(a)norfolk-county.com

Nov. 7, 2003

Re: [Wlug] Red Hat vs SuSE....

by Charles R. Anderson

On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 06:01:49PM -0500, Josh Huber wrote: > Not to be a pain in the ass, but the envelope information is not > *always* there -- it's not even part of the message. > > Perhaps your mail is stored in an mbox-style mailbox, which uses the > "From<space>" line as the message separators? (I use IMAP as a mail > store, so these lines are not present) For procmail, and perhaps other MTA/MDA-based filtering packages, it is always there, but you are right, it may not be available to e.g. pine filtering etc. depening on the format of the mail store. -- Charles R. Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> / http://angus.ind.wpi.edu/~cra/ PGP Key ID: 49BB5886 Fingerprint: EBA3 A106 7C93 FA07 8E15 3AC2 C367 A0F9 49BB 5886

Nov. 7, 2003

Re: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show...

by doug waud

Hi all Keller, Tim wrote: > Firstly, I think we need to decide who our target audience is. This morning > I came up with notion that generally, users can be broken into several > groups. snip, snip > What do people think. Also, if it is the consensus that we should focus on > groups 1-3, should we narrow our focus even more? I have a hard time picturing how you could get something which would be meaningful/interesting for the novice group and not bore the hell out of the advanced group (and visa versa). The closest I can imagine is starting with some introductory stuff in 1+ half hour bytes and then progressing to more advanced topics with the idea that you have brought the novice group up to speed for the more advanced stuff and the experts can skip the early part and drop in later. The problem here is that now you have a lot more work to do. In turn, this makes me think a crawl-before-walk approach is best. Thus I would start with the novice group and, if you don't lose them, plan on going on to the deeper material in round two. I have just been viewing a tape I made of Brian Greene's Elegant Universe (Nova). I could not help watching it from the context of our interest in doing a similar thing for Linux. The Nova show was clearly aimed at the novice. And it worked very well. The general format was about a sentence or two on something with a quick transfer to some eye-catching visual effect ("eye candy"). For instance, jumping now to our topic, one could start out with some catchy "grab 'em" introduction like Narrator: We're going to let you in on a well-kept secret: you don't have to spend a lot of money to get good software for you computer. Followed by a shot of a "user" complaining that he/she is going to have to spend $X to upgrade to WindowsX, another that it will cost $Y to upgrade to OfficeZ and then one of our dorks with "Hey, I can do all that for $30, or even for nothing if I wish! From here you could move to a collage of floating GNU, LINUX, TUX's, Linus, Maddog, Stallman, etc with the narrator saying welcome to the world of what is called open source software, Linux, GNU, penguins saving money and evading the grasp of companies who try to make your their captive audience. etc Slide: Avoid the Gates of Hell, Use Linux! Narrator: Want to learn more? Just jump on board and fasten your seat belt. Take the tour of the world of Open Source! ? Snippet of a Disney world like train heading off to Open Source Land. Narrator; Let's start at the beginning, or actually the beginnings. First we have a guy in Cambridge (back drop changes to Stallman) who got very upset when he ran into computer programs that he could not see inside. It also bothered him that computer programs were not freely exchanged. (Back drop could have some key Stallman quotes on this issue) etc to gnu emacs etc Narrator: This leads into the "second beginning": Narrator: About this time, a young guy in Finland (Torvalds now on the background) was etc etc. snip, snip Narrator: So what exactly is Linux? (Background of floating packages of Redhat, SuSE, Caldera, etc). ---- Linux in the broad sense, GNU/Linux, Linux/GNU distros, snip snip Narrator: So let's take a look at a computer running linux (Background a KDE/Gnome desktop) Here is what you get. Notice that, as you might expect since they are all doing the same thing, it is very similar to various Windows desktops. You have menus, (Background open menu with mouse), you can open applications (Background open something which pops up quickly ), you can read mail (Background --- you've got the picture) you can "surf the web" (Background a good porn site :-)) etc. snip snip Narrator: So how do you get into this wonderful world etc etc. Well, as usual I got carried away but the above does show a few things. Principally, a lot of work would have to be done on getting those background shots since they are the stuff which keeps the audience's attention. Secondly, I found the actual script came fairly easily. The process was essentially to get and idea of flow (This would be a sequence of topics the group agreed flowed well, including nothing spurious and leaving out nothing necessary), picture what graphic (this is video!) would accompany/achieve that, and add the narration to keep the audience on track. Note also that one has to make sure one's internal enthusiasm is translated (and probably amplified along the way) to the screen. For example, if we were to get to the second, for-the-more-expert stage, I would want to see some "Hey this is cool" expletives in the script! At this point, the idea of sitting in a studio with a camera pointed at some "talking head" does not strike me as a good way to go unless you are interested in selling sleeping pills. Time to shut up and see what the rest of you think. doug

Nov. 6, 2003

Re: [Wlug] Red Hat vs SuSE....

by Josh Huber

"Charles R. Anderson" <cra(a)WPI.EDU> writes: > The envelope "From " header is *always* there, and indicates the list > a message came through: > >>From wlug-bounces(a)mail.wlug.org Thu Nov 6 17:27:19 2003 Not to be a pain in the ass, but the envelope information is not *always* there -- it's not even part of the message. Perhaps your mail is stored in an mbox-style mailbox, which uses the "From<space>" line as the message separators? (I use IMAP as a mail store, so these lines are not present) So, back to the original question. If you're filtering on a header, I would also tend to recommend the List-Id header. It seems as though mailman must haved changed the default envelope sender from listname-admin@... to listname-bounces@..., since a copule lists which I had filtering on the Sender header started showing up in my inbox. -- Josh Huber

Nov. 6, 2003

Re: [Wlug] Red Hat vs SuSE....

by Charles R. Anderson

On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 05:26:02PM -0500, Andy Stewart wrote: > On Thursday 06 November 2003 5:05 pm, John Stoffel wrote: > > Just a quick suggestion, but could you please re-insert the mail > > header for "Sender:" so it's easy to sort out WLUG email from other > > stuff? > > HI John, > > I see "Sender:" in my mail headers from the list, and it says > "wlug-bounces(a)mail.wlug.org". Am I looking at the right thing? > > For lists, I personally like to filter on "List-Id:" field of the mail header, > but there's probably a zillion ways to accomplish this. The envelope "From " header is *always* there, and indicates the list a message came through: >From wlug-bounces(a)mail.wlug.org Thu Nov 6 17:27:19 2003 -- Charles R. Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> / http://angus.ind.wpi.edu/~cra/ PGP Key ID: 49BB5886 Fingerprint: EBA3 A106 7C93 FA07 8E15 3AC2 C367 A0F9 49BB 5886

Nov. 6, 2003

Re: [Wlug] Red Hat vs SuSE....

by Andy Stewart

On Thursday 06 November 2003 5:05 pm, John Stoffel wrote: > Just a quick suggestion, but could you please re-insert the mail > header for "Sender:" so it's easy to sort out WLUG email from other > stuff? HI John, I see "Sender:" in my mail headers from the list, and it says "wlug-bounces(a)mail.wlug.org". Am I looking at the right thing? For lists, I personally like to filter on "List-Id:" field of the mail header, but there's probably a zillion ways to accomplish this. Later, Andy -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org

Nov. 6, 2003