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Re: [Wlug] NFS Trouble

by Jeff Moyer

==> Regarding [Wlug] NFS Trouble; Chuck Haines <chaines(a)gmail.com> adds: chaines> I have an interesting problem that is occuring. I have a /home chaines> directory on a file server and I have several login servers that chaines> mount this /home directory via NFS. Now this /home directory has chaines> a ton of files and directorys (about 2000 user accounts). I chaines> noticed that when I perform a copy of a large file ( I tested with chaines> a 50 MB file) on a login server from something like /tmp to the chaines> NFS mounted /home, the load average on the file server jumps up to chaines> over 7, and seems to take forever (around 3-4 minutes). If I copy chaines> a large file (once again I tested with 50 MB) from the NFS mounted chaines> /home to like /tmp on the login server, there is no noticable load chaines> average increase and it occurs in approximately 10-15 seconds. So chaines> it seems that writes to the NFS mounted /home are taking longer chaines> than they should and are spiking the load average. Both the file chaines> server and the login servers are dual P3's with 2 gigs of ram. chaines> Has anyone ever seen anything like this, or knows of any solutions chaines> to this problem? Kernel version (client and server)? Version of nfs-utils? What does top show as taking up CPU when you do the copy and your load average spikes? -Jeff

Sept. 9, 2004

Re: [Wlug] NFS Trouble

by Chuck Haines

The curent line from the fstab is as follows: hostname:/home /home nfs rsize=4096,wsize=4096,bg,intr,rw,actimeo=15 0 0 Where hostname is replaced with the name of the machine I am mounting the /home from. Chuck On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 12:23:52 -0400, Dwight A. Ernest <dwight(a)significant.com> wrote: > With what options did you mount the volume on the client? > > > > Chuck Haines wrote: > > > I have an interesting problem that is occuring. I have a /home > > directory on a file server and I have several login servers that mount > > this /home directory via NFS. Now this /home directory has a ton of > > files and directorys (about 2000 user accounts). I noticed that when > > I perform a copy of a large file ( I tested with a 50 MB file) on a > > login server from something like /tmp to the NFS mounted /home, the > > load average on the file server jumps up to over 7, and seems to take > > forever (around 3-4 minutes). If I copy a large file (once again I > > tested with 50 MB) from the NFS mounted /home to like /tmp on the > > login server, there is no noticable load average increase and it > > occurs in approximately 10-15 seconds. So it seems that writes to the > > NFS mounted /home are taking longer than they should and are spiking > > the load average. Both the file server and the login servers are dual > > P3's with 2 gigs of ram. Has anyone ever seen anything like this, or > > knows of any solutions to this problem? > > > > Thanks, > > Chuck > > > > -- Chuck Haines chaines(a)gmail.com ------------------------------------------- Tau Kappa Epsilon Fraternity WPI Class of 2005 ------------------------------------------- AIM: CyberGrex YIM: CyberGrex_27 ICQ: 3707881 -------------------------------------------

Sept. 9, 2004

Re: [Wlug] NFS Trouble

by Dwight A. Ernest

With what options did you mount the volume on the client? Chuck Haines wrote: > I have an interesting problem that is occuring. I have a /home > directory on a file server and I have several login servers that mount > this /home directory via NFS. Now this /home directory has a ton of > files and directorys (about 2000 user accounts). I noticed that when > I perform a copy of a large file ( I tested with a 50 MB file) on a > login server from something like /tmp to the NFS mounted /home, the > load average on the file server jumps up to over 7, and seems to take > forever (around 3-4 minutes). If I copy a large file (once again I > tested with 50 MB) from the NFS mounted /home to like /tmp on the > login server, there is no noticable load average increase and it > occurs in approximately 10-15 seconds. So it seems that writes to the > NFS mounted /home are taking longer than they should and are spiking > the load average. Both the file server and the login servers are dual > P3's with 2 gigs of ram. Has anyone ever seen anything like this, or > knows of any solutions to this problem? > > Thanks, > Chuck >

Sept. 9, 2004

Re: [Wlug] NFS Trouble

by Mike Frysinger

On Thursday 09 September 2004 11:59 am, Chuck Haines wrote: > Has anyone ever seen anything like this, or > knows of any solutions to this problem? i havent seen anything like that before, but i have had random NFS issues ... i found using NFSv3 over TCP resolved pretty much all of the problems i experienced while using NFSv2 or NFSv3 over UDP you could also try tweaking the rsize and wsize parameters for the mount -mike

Sept. 9, 2004

NFS Trouble

by Chuck Haines

I have an interesting problem that is occuring. I have a /home directory on a file server and I have several login servers that mount this /home directory via NFS. Now this /home directory has a ton of files and directorys (about 2000 user accounts). I noticed that when I perform a copy of a large file ( I tested with a 50 MB file) on a login server from something like /tmp to the NFS mounted /home, the load average on the file server jumps up to over 7, and seems to take forever (around 3-4 minutes). If I copy a large file (once again I tested with 50 MB) from the NFS mounted /home to like /tmp on the login server, there is no noticable load average increase and it occurs in approximately 10-15 seconds. So it seems that writes to the NFS mounted /home are taking longer than they should and are spiking the load average. Both the file server and the login servers are dual P3's with 2 gigs of ram. Has anyone ever seen anything like this, or knows of any solutions to this problem? Thanks, Chuck -- Chuck Haines chaines(a)gmail.com ------------------------------------------- Tau Kappa Epsilon Fraternity WPI Class of 2005 ------------------------------------------- AIM: CyberGrex YIM: CyberGrex_27 ICQ: 3707881 -------------------------------------------

Sept. 9, 2004

Re: [Wlug] Linux Photo Printer recommendations

by John Stoffel

Thanks for the quick reply Andy, but I managed to figure it out last night. Background, I've got a Debian system which is pretty aggressively updated with apt. Mostly unstable, with some testing thrown in. CUPs has been working just fine for ages now, since I've got an HP LaserJet 4 on the network that I share with my wife. But this time I couldn't get the CUPs web GUI to even show or accept any URI's on the form of /dev/usb/lp0, which is where the printer shows up under udev. Well, it turned out that half of the backends in /usr/lib/cups/backend/ weren't executable, even though they were there. So I just did a chomd +x /usr/lib/cups/backend/* /etc/init.d/cupsys restart and went back to http://localhost:631/admin and I was able to add the printer without any problems. What a pain! I had also deinstalled and re-installed various versions of cups as well, but obviously there's a problem with the debian setup of version 1.1.20final+rc1-5 which is what I have installed. So at this point I've got my R300 hooked up and working, now to play with GIMP for printing out photos. And boy, is it slow on my system, which is only a PIII Xeon 550mhz dual CPU box. Using the highest resolution of the printer, and the highest resolution picture from my camera, I ended up printing 85mb of data for a 4x6 snapshot. Ouch! John

Sept. 9, 2004

Re: [Wlug] Linux Photo Printer recommendations

by Andy Stewart

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 08 September 2004 10:08 am, John Stoffel wrote: > > Andy, I misplaced the link to your doc on getting CUPS working with > USB printers, can you resend it? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/users-guide.pdf See Chapter 3, it might help. Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBP4hZHl0iXDssISsRAkm9AJ4q/6Tva2vQPb2UmHRaSwMkha4ncACggC58 fPIqVBUJCwwDesxAuFqL/R4= =2qj1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Sept. 8, 2004

Re: [Wlug] Linux Photo Printer recommendations

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Robert" == Robert L Krawitz <rlk(a)alum.mit.edu> writes: Robert> Unless you really need the Ultrachrome inks, I'd go with the Robert> R200 or R300. They're cheaper than the 960 and better tuned. I've gone with an R300, puts out nice output so far, but now to get CUPS to recognize it properly. The docs suck, as does the admin web page thing. Andy, I misplaced the link to your doc on getting CUPS working with USB printers, can you resend it? Thanks, John

Sept. 8, 2004

Re: [Wlug] Linux Photo Printer recommendations

by Robert L Krawitz

Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 15:24:33 -0400 From: "John Stoffel" <stoffel(a)lucent.com> >>>>> "Robert" == Robert L Krawitz <rlk(a)alum.mit.edu> writes: Robert> The only one that's cheaper is the R800, but that's currently Robert> marginally supported at best. In particular, it only operates Robert> in CMYK mode right now, and it's going to take me a while to Robert> get the red and blue inks (and gloss optimizer) working Robert> correctly. So it really sounds like the R200 or the R300(M) might be a better choice for me, since I don't want to spend a ton of money here. I know I'll be spending it on the paper/ink no matter what. Or an 960 might still be an ok choice? Unless you really need the Ultrachrome inks, I'd go with the R200 or R300. They're cheaper than the 960 and better tuned. -- Robert Krawitz <rlk(a)alum.mit.edu> Tall Clubs International -- http://www.tall.org/ or 1-888-IM-TALL-2 Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- mail lpf(a)uunet.uu.net Project lead for Gimp Print -- http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net "Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works." --Eric Crampton

Sept. 7, 2004

Re: [Wlug] Linux Photo Printer recommendations

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Robert" == Robert L Krawitz <rlk(a)alum.mit.edu> writes: Robert> The only one that's cheaper is the R800, but that's currently Robert> marginally supported at best. In particular, it only operates Robert> in CMYK mode right now, and it's going to take me a while to Robert> get the red and blue inks (and gloss optimizer) working Robert> correctly. So it really sounds like the R200 or the R300(M) might be a better choice for me, since I don't want to spend a ton of money here. I know I'll be spending it on the paper/ink no matter what. Or an 960 might still be an ok choice? Robert> You're not using less ink at lower resolution. Paper is very Robert> important. I'd suggest the Epson papers, since the inks and Robert> papers are designed to work together. Thanks for the comments, so sticking with Epson supplies is the way to go here.

Sept. 7, 2004

Re: [Wlug] printers

by Son Nguyen

Charles and all, LPRng is not bad at all. For those who still have it available for use and have been working with it for a while, it works great. For beginners, I forsee the use of CUPS ia an easier learning curves. In my situation, I have to upgrade all of my linux boxes every two years. Sinces cups is built in to the distributions that I am using it is best for me to adapt to the change (as long as it does not disrupt functionality and the way my users works). Last I have checked, LPRng is not be updated recently ( I could be wrong). Its just seems to be a bit painful to build LPRng into new distributions that already have working printing solution. >From what I have read so far...some of us are having issues here and there with cups. I guess...luck fo rme...I have not. Sonny >From: Chuck Haines <chaines(a)gmail.com> >Reply-To: Chuck Haines <chaines(a)gmail.com>, Worcester Linux Users Group<wlug(a)mail.wlug.org> >To: Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org> >Subject: Re: [Wlug] printers >Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 11:25:48 -0400 > >LPRng is not that bad for a print server. In the ECE dept at WPI, we >use LPRng beause CUPS IMHO is still rather buggy. We've tried >switching over to CUPS on many occasions however have always ran into >a bug that prevents us from performing the switch over. We've also >used CUPS on our other servers to connet to the printer server running >LPRng and have run into some troubles with that, which we have not >using LPRng. > >Chuck > >On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 13:21:45 +0000, Son Nguyen <snguyen(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > Don, > > > > I would recommend not using LPRng. It is too old. I understand that CUPS > > seems difficult, but once you understand it, it is the next best thing. In > > my office, I have setup my kickstart to install 300+ printers on all of my > > Redhat Linux V3 Workstation machines (100+). You can configure it via > > console, applet, or even web. Fedora and Redhat has gone that route and I > > believe that others have too. It is much better than LPRng can every be. > > > > Sonny > > > > &gt;From: &quot;Don Peterson&quot; &lt;dpeterson(a)sterilite.com&gt; > > &gt;Reply-To: Worcester Linux Users Group &lt;wlug(a)mail.wlug.org&gt; > > &gt;To: &quot;Worcester Linux Users Group&quot; &lt;wlug(a)mail.wlug.org&gt; > > &gt;Subject: RE: [Wlug] printers > > &gt;Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:13:56 -0400 > > &gt; > > &gt;Thanx for the reply John. > > &gt;I had looked into CUPS but it looked pretty involved (the install and > > &gt;setup). > > &gt;Maybe I will give LPRng a shot. > > &gt; > > &gt;-----Original Message----- > > &gt;From: wlug-bounces(a)mail.wlug.org [mailto:wlug-bounces@mail.wlug.org] On > > &gt;Behalf Of John Stoffel > > &gt;Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 3:51 PM > > &gt;To: Worcester Linux Users Group > > &gt;Subject: Re: [Wlug] printers > > &gt; > > &gt; > > &gt;Don&gt; I've got a quick question about printers. Is there a > > printers.conf > > &gt; > > &gt;Don&gt; file in Red Hat like there is in Solaris (I couldn't find one). > > &gt;Don&gt; Here's my issue: > > &gt; > > &gt;Don&gt; I have 5 servers in a 9i RAC array and I don't want to set up my > > 50 > > &gt; > > &gt;Don&gt; printers on each server. Can anyone suggest a way to > > &quot;copy&quot; > > &gt;Don&gt; the printers I set up on one server to the other 4? > > &gt; > > &gt;Sure, just setup one box as your master, using LPRng. Then you install > > &gt;LPRng on all the client systems with an /etc/printcap sorta like this: > > &gt; > > &gt; # LPRng: /etc/printcap file > > &gt; # > > &gt; # Forward all jobs to the print server > > &gt; # > > &gt; *:force_localhost@:client:rm=printmaster.foo.com > > &gt; > > &gt; > > &gt;Then when you add/delete printers on the server, they appear on the > > &gt;client without any intervention. > > &gt; > > &gt;Now, I can't say I love LPRng, mostly because the Docs are baroque and > > &gt;hard to follow, and the output of various commands is also archane. > > &gt; > > &gt;You might want to look at using CUPS instead, since it's based on and > > &gt;support the Internet Printing Protocol. I use CUPS at home and it's > > &gt;fine. > > &gt; > > &gt;_______________________________________________ > > &gt;Wlug mailing list > > &gt;Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > > &gt;http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > &gt; > > &gt;_______________________________________________ > > &gt;Wlug mailing list > > &gt;Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > > &gt;http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wlug mailing list > > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > > >-- >Chuck Haines >chaines(a)gmail.com >------------------------------------------- >Tau Kappa Epsilon Fraternity >WPI Class of 2005 >------------------------------------------- >AIM: CyberGrex >YIM: CyberGrex_27 >ICQ: 3707881 >------------------------------------------- >_______________________________________________ >Wlug mailing list >Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org >http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Sept. 6, 2004

Re: [Wlug] printers

by Son Nguyen

Keith, >From: Keith Wright <kwright(a)free-comp-shop.com> >Reply-To: Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org> >To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org >Subject: Re: [Wlug] printers >Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 17:26:53 -0400 > > > From: "Son Nguyen" <snguyen(a)hotmail.com> > > > > I would recommend not using LPRng. It is too old. > >As an old codger in training, I take that personally. >You remind me of Perlis's comment on Algol60: > Not perfect, but a big improvement over its successors. > This commend is not meant to insult. Just that almost every distributions are using cups. I have had request from my users that I should retro fit lrpng into my network. Although it is not impossible, it is less versitile than cups. I have not had much problems with both the applets and web based configuration. >I don't even know what LPRng is, I suppose it's the New-Gnu version >of the ancient bin/lpr program, from back in the days when programs >were more prized for working than for having a Web interface. I totally agree. I would rather use the console command instead, but it is nice to have an alternative configuration method for those who are not confortable at the command line. > >My printer is attached to a dual boot machine that now runs >Linux only, with a Samba server so that Diane can print >via the network from her laptop. It worked pretty much >the first time, the main problem being getting the Windows >laptop to notice it. > >I can print from the printer/Linux machine, but when I tried >to use the much-touted CUPS web-based set-up to connect to the >printer from another Linux machine, it went totaly wonky. >Certain buttons sent the browser in an apparent infinite loop. >(By Turing, you can never be sure, but I waited long with no action) >Sometimes it would take me to some crazy random place in the >Internet, to pictures of buildings that had the same name >as my server machine, as though some mad programmer had >rewritten bin/hostname to search Google for its name. > Have you considered connecting the printer to the windows box, share it and then map it via the linux? How about a a dsl router with the network printer capability? I love the external jetdirect parrellel to ethernet device. >It was not high priority, since ftp works and I have to walk >to the printer machine anyway to get the paper, so I quit. > > > I understand that CUPS seems difficult, but once you understand it, > > it is the next best thing. > >At first I thought you were recommending it as second-best, but >maybe "next best" means Best Real Soon Now. > > > In my office, I have setup my kickstart > > to install 300+ printers on all of my Redhat Linux V3 Workstation > > machines (100+). > >Eh? You need 300 printers for 100 workstations? > My offices are in Bedford (MA), McLean (VA), NJ, and Tampa (FL). I have to allow users to printer to any printers on my network for virtual meeting purposes. Sonny > > You can configure it via console, applet, or even web. > >Not me, maybe you can. > > > Fedora and Redhat has gone that route and I believe that > > others have too. It is much better than LPRng can every be. > >Oh, I suppose, but much better can you make something that >does what I used to with "cat scratch.ps >/dev/lp0"? > > -- Keith >_______________________________________________ >Wlug mailing list >Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org >http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Sept. 6, 2004

Re: [Wlug] vendor recommendation

by Charles R. Anderson

On Sun, Sep 05, 2004 at 08:03:02AM -0700, Mike Leo wrote: > I have heard in the past that you cannot buy a dell > with only linux on it....they have some special deal > with MS that says every PC they sell MUST have some > version of windows. They will install linux only as a > duel boot. That's only true for desktops, not servers. The best way to buy a Dell Linux system for desktop use is to get a Dell PowerEdge 400SC. It is their entry-level tower server, but it uses the exact same motherboard as their Dimension line, so it has an AGP slot on it (they don't tell you this in their literature). So you buy this in the barebones minimum configuration with the 800MHz FSB P4 CPU you want, add more DDR400 RAM from crucial.com (cheaper than Dell's RAM), and get your own video card separately. You can get Linux preinstalled, or get no OS at all. Plus it usually comes with a 3 year on-site next-business day warranty...

Sept. 5, 2004

Re: [Wlug] vendor recommendation

by Mike Leo

I have heard in the past that you cannot buy a dell with only linux on it....they have some special deal with MS that says every PC they sell MUST have some version of windows. They will install linux only as a duel boot. Not sure if that is still true...anyone know for sure? --- Gary Hanley <gary(a)hanley.net> wrote: > On Sun, 5 Sep 2004, Karl Hiramoto wrote: > > http://www.pcsforeveryone.com/ in cambridge will > install various Linux > > distros. I just bought a machine last week for > work there. > > Short of building your own, I would recommend these > guys also. I haven't > bought one there myself but I know people who have > and were happy. > > Of course, I would recommend almost anyone but Dell. > :-) > > Why not Dell? > > Because Dell doesn't do AMD and AMD64 is ruling the > price/performance > ratios at all levels against Intel right now and for > the foreseeable > future. > > Plus, they are an underdog...and we like underdogs! > > -- Gary > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

Sept. 5, 2004

Re: [Wlug] vendor recommendation

by Gary Hanley

On Sun, 5 Sep 2004, Karl Hiramoto wrote: > http://www.pcsforeveryone.com/ in cambridge will install various Linux > distros. I just bought a machine last week for work there. Short of building your own, I would recommend these guys also. I haven't bought one there myself but I know people who have and were happy. Of course, I would recommend almost anyone but Dell. :-) Why not Dell? Because Dell doesn't do AMD and AMD64 is ruling the price/performance ratios at all levels against Intel right now and for the foreseeable future. Plus, they are an underdog...and we like underdogs! -- Gary

Sept. 5, 2004

Re: [Wlug] vendor recommendation

by Karl Hiramoto

http://www.pcsforeveryone.com/ in cambridge will install various Linux distros. I just bought a machine last week for work there. Baris Hasdemir wrote: >hi list, > >Would you guys give me recommendations for a company around >Massachusetts selling Linux pre-installed desktop computers at a good >price/performance ratio? > >I would also appreciate Linux pre-installed laptop/notebook sellers are >welcome, as well though I think that it is harder to find. > >Thank you >baris > >_______________________________________________ >Wlug mailing list >Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org >http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > -- ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø Karl Hiramoto <karl(a)hiramoto.org> Work: 978-425-2090 ext 25 Cell: 508-517-4819 http://karl.hiramoto.org/ AOL IM ID = KarlH420 Yahoo_IM = karl_hiramoto ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø Old age is too high a price to pay for maturity.

Sept. 5, 2004

vendor recommendation

by Baris Hasdemir

hi list, Would you guys give me recommendations for a company around Massachusetts selling Linux pre-installed desktop computers at a good price/performance ratio? I would also appreciate Linux pre-installed laptop/notebook sellers are welcome, as well though I think that it is harder to find. Thank you baris

Sept. 5, 2004

Re: [Wlug] memtest hangs

by John Ferreira

I recently ran into something like this. Exactly the same symptoms. Intel motherboard with pc2100. Ended up being the motherboard itself. I kept hanging on the same test, between 2% and 8% completion. The test did run to 100% if I ESC out before the first test runs, and manually select that test to run by itself. Might be worth a try. I also tested the memory and processor in a second motherboard, and they checked out ok. Same processor and memory are running fine in the new motherboard. Good Luck. --- Gregory Avedissian <gma2004(a)verizon.net> wrote: > I'm testing some DDR ram (one pc2100 and one pc2700) in a dell 4500s > (1.8GHz Intel) and memtest hangs on the second test - Address Test, Own > Address, No Cache. > > I've tested the sticks together and separately, and the same thing > happens. The test just stops after a minute or two, with no error messages > and loss of keyboard control. Tested one stick in a different computer, > and it tests fine. It's a brand new memory chip. > > The Dell seems to run slower than I'd expect for a 1.8GHz with 384MB RAM. > I especially noticed it when I was installing software from source > packages - it went a lot slower than on my 1.2GHz Athlon with 500MB of > pc133. Other than that, it seems to run ok. > > Here are my questions: Is it obviously the cpu? Is there any linux > software that will test the cpu similar to what memtest does with memory? > Any suggestions for diagnosing this problem? > > Thanks, > Greg > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

Sept. 5, 2004

Re: [Wlug] Where do we eat?

by Frank

On Sat, Sep 04, 2004 at 12:22:51PM -0400, Carlton C. Stedman II wrote: > > I would have thought that 'Why do we eat?' would be a higher stage > > than 'Where do lunch?', but perhaps it is just a matter of taste. > > Which question seems more civilized may depend upon whether you > > are a French philosopher facing a plate full of jellied liver, > > or a film producer facing a starlet. > > No, no. First off, its a quote from Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide To > The Galaxy. Second, the idea is that after one finds how to do something, > the next step is to ask why they do it, all existential-like, and finally > the people eventually get tired of that and grow fat and stupid. Heh, I took a different meaning away from that quote... Adams referred to these stages as 1) Survival, 2) Inquiry, and 3) Sophistication. I don't think sophistication necessarily requires fat and stupid people, but I will agree that decadence and sophistication are often confused. > Hence: > > > And the web interfaces are generally a sign of civilization moving > > > from the 'How can we eat?' stage past the 'Why do we eat?' and > > > straight to the 'Where shall we have lunch?' stage... > > Implies that web interfaces are for the weak. This is silly, web > interfaces are very froody, and so easy to use, they make an excellent > alternative to command-line file editing, in many cases. > > CCS <SNIP> Not at all, I don't think that web interfaces are for the weak. They are another tool in the toolbox and get used and abused like any other... Frank

Sept. 4, 2004

Re: [Wlug] printers

by Frank

On Sat, Sep 04, 2004 at 11:04:22AM -0400, Andy Stewart wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > Hi everybody, > > While I happen to use CUPS, I'd like to note that there is at least one other > person who had an unhappy first experience. Eric Raymond documents his > experience here: > http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html Even though I do have a couple of disagreements with his various points, it was a very good article and probably doubly helpful in that it allows people to admit that they are having trouble with something (If ESR can't get it to work, why would they be afraid to admit it? His followup article mentions this effect a bit.). > Perhaps Chapter 3 of "The User's Guide to the Gimp-Print Top Quality Printer > Drivers" (authored by yours truly) would be of help in configuring CUPS for a > very basic installation. This document is available here: > http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/users-guide.pdf > > Admittedly, this doesn't cover the "login" window presented by the CUPS > interface. After searching the web for some time, I can't find the > documentation which describes how to setup accounts which give users > permission to modify certain aspects of CUPS. It must be somewhere on the > CUPS website. The CUPS website FAQ had a reference that I stumbled across while looking something up for my response earlier. (http://cups.org/faq.php?16) > When I first configured CUPS, I couldn't for the life of me figure out whether > to use http, IPP, or otherwise, in describing my printer, and there was no > guidance to help determine the proper choice. The CUPS admin web page asking > for "device URI" confounded me for quite some time. I found the examples on > that web page unhelpful. > > Now that I have it working, I am happy with it, but admittedly it was rather > frustrating to do the first time. In my opinion, the web interface should be > so simple that I don't *need* to read the manual - at least for a very basic > installation. > > Later, > > Andy <SNIP> I think this is where the CUPS web interface does begin to fall down. They have a lot of documentation elsewhere and you end up having to read a large portion of it to be able to configure things using the web interface. Frank

Sept. 4, 2004

Re: [Wlug] printers

by Frank

On Sat, Sep 04, 2004 at 02:50:53AM -0400, Keith Wright wrote: <SNIP> > I would have thought that 'Why do we eat?' would be a higher stage > than 'Where do lunch?', but perhaps it is just a matter of taste. > Which question seems more civilized may depend upon whether you > are a French philosopher facing a plate full of jellied liver, > or a film producer facing a starlet. It was a reference to the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy as explained recently by another poster and intended to mirror what I had seen as levity in the beginning of your post... > Though not yet civilized, the web interface may nevertheless be an > advance from savagery to barbarism. I worry about security. To each their own, however I think that equating a web interface with more insecurity than any other network reachable interface might be jumping the gun. <SNIP Adventures in CUPS-land> > > Your web browser had its auto-magical lookup functionality turned > > on and went looking for what you specified when it couldn't connect > > to the address you specified. > > I really don't think there is anything wrong with my browser > (Firefox), it has never done anything at all like that before. If I > had ever seen any hint of an auto-magical lookup functionality I would > have shot it. I might be mistaken and the functionality that I am referring to is in the DNS resolving layer. Same difference as the root issue was an inability to resolve a link as opposed to any clandestine communication (which wouldn't need to involve your browser anyway...). > > Honestly, CUPS is not that hard to configure and use these days. > > Well, I didn't mean to insult your baby, I was just telling > my experience. I have Cups as installed by Redhat, if you could > write or point me to a one page HOWTO send a file on this machine > to the working printer on the other, that would be great. Maybe > we could send it back to the Cups project. The documentation > I have seen manages to be both voluminous and elliptical and > lacks a short introduction to getting the damned thing working > in the simplest case. I'm not sure why you think CUPS is my baby, I have no affliation nor even heavy use of it. Heck, I've only used it reasonably often in two environments: One work environment on a linux desktop in a Windows only shop (much fun with samba, non/badly- documented copiers that pretend to be printers, and so on...) and a home environment where a mixed set of OSes talked to two printers (laser/inkjet) on different machines. Both were in the last couple of years. I was reporting on *my* experience and mentioned along the way what I thought might have been going on in your experience. Your browser going to odd places (assuming the link appeared to be valid) does not point the finger at CUPS (at least at first glance), but at what your browser was doing. For example, the question about the login box is answered in the FAQ section on the CUPS website under "What Password Do I Need to Use in the Web Interface?".) > > There was a period of history where it was pretty difficult to set > > up correctly but it has been pretty solid for the last couple of > > years. > > Maybe you have learned to do a difficult thing so well that you > forgot why it was difficult. Nah, I skipped the difficult years. I came in when it was easy to do. > > And, even in the difficult years, it offered a level of > > functionality not readily available with the rest of tools in play > > at the time. > > But if you don't want functionality, just want to send a file > upstairs in fewer steps than ftp and telnet... Out of curiousiy, what did you end up using? <SNIP> > > And I'd recommend it to the original poster. > > Near as I can remember the original poster asked about a photo- > printer with a USB interface. I don't dis-recommend Cups, but > I've told my story and I'm sticking to it. In this case, the poster can draw on the combined experiences of WLUG and we just might be able to get them through the (dark and scary)/(reasonably lit and pleasant) passage to printing bliss or a reasonably close facsimile thereof. > > (Typos and general icky-ness of the email I apologize for, had to > > recreate it from a bounce message as I discovered a bit of > > misconfiguration on my recently moved email server...) > > Every line came padded out with blanks to 80 columns. > I took them out in the reply. > Please don't accuse me of misquoting you. > > -- Keith What an odd request... But okay... Frank

Sept. 4, 2004

Where do we eat?

by Carlton C. Stedman II

> I would have thought that 'Why do we eat?' would be a higher stage > than 'Where do lunch?', but perhaps it is just a matter of taste. > Which question seems more civilized may depend upon whether you > are a French philosopher facing a plate full of jellied liver, > or a film producer facing a starlet. No, no. First off, its a quote from Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy. Second, the idea is that after one finds how to do something, the next step is to ask why they do it, all existential-like, and finally the people eventually get tired of that and grow fat and stupid. Hence: > > And the web interfaces are generally a sign of civilization moving > > from the 'How can we eat?' stage past the 'Why do we eat?' and > > straight to the 'Where shall we have lunch?' stage... Implies that web interfaces are for the weak. This is silly, web interfaces are very froody, and so easy to use, they make an excellent alternative to command-line file editing, in many cases. CCS -- Carlton C. Stedman II, sageman(a)wpi.edu "To iterate is human, to recurse, divine." -- L. Peter Deutch

Sept. 4, 2004

Re: [Wlug] printers

by Andy Stewart

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi everybody, While I happen to use CUPS, I'd like to note that there is at least one other person who had an unhappy first experience. Eric Raymond documents his experience here: http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html Perhaps Chapter 3 of "The User's Guide to the Gimp-Print Top Quality Printer Drivers" (authored by yours truly) would be of help in configuring CUPS for a very basic installation. This document is available here: http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/users-guide.pdf Admittedly, this doesn't cover the "login" window presented by the CUPS interface. After searching the web for some time, I can't find the documentation which describes how to setup accounts which give users permission to modify certain aspects of CUPS. It must be somewhere on the CUPS website. When I first configured CUPS, I couldn't for the life of me figure out whether to use http, IPP, or otherwise, in describing my printer, and there was no guidance to help determine the proper choice. The CUPS admin web page asking for "device URI" confounded me for quite some time. I found the examples on that web page unhelpful. Now that I have it working, I am happy with it, but admittedly it was rather frustrating to do the first time. In my opinion, the web interface should be so simple that I don't *need* to read the manual - at least for a very basic installation. Later, Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBOdmBHl0iXDssISsRAl76AJ9duHJww3GjGnUSCTy8wDRCNsWp0QCfV3rO jF3vlhhCqR5UXcHdrulvf7M= =oNes -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Sept. 4, 2004

Re: [Wlug] memtest hangs

by Brett Russ

Gregory Avedissian wrote: > I'm testing some DDR ram (one pc2100 and one pc2700) in a dell 4500s > (1.8GHz Intel) and memtest hangs on the second test - Address Test, Own > Address, No Cache. > > I've tested the sticks together and separately, and the same thing > happens. The test just stops after a minute or two, with no error > messages and loss of keyboard control. Tested one stick in a different > computer, and it tests fine. It's a brand new memory chip. > > The Dell seems to run slower than I'd expect for a 1.8GHz with 384MB > RAM. I especially noticed it when I was installing software from source > packages - it went a lot slower than on my 1.2GHz Athlon with 500MB of > pc133. Other than that, it seems to run ok. > > Here are my questions: Is it obviously the cpu? Is there any linux > software that will test the cpu similar to what memtest does with > memory? Any suggestions for diagnosing this problem? Check CPU temp and cooling if you can. I've seen CPUs halt unannounced (a hang like you say) when they reach a certain threshold temp. Also, it may throttle itself back if it's overheating causing the slowness. BR

Sept. 4, 2004

Re: [Wlug] printers

by Keith Wright

> From: Frank <fmoody-ug-wlug(a)moodman.org> > > On Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 05:26:53PM -0400, Keith Wright wrote: > > > From: "Son Nguyen" <snguyen(a)hotmail.com> > > > > > > I would recommend not using LPRng. It is too old. > And the web interfaces are generally a sign of civilization moving > from the 'How can we eat?' stage past the 'Why do we eat?' and > straight to the 'Where shall we have lunch?' stage... I would have thought that 'Why do we eat?' would be a higher stage than 'Where do lunch?', but perhaps it is just a matter of taste. Which question seems more civilized may depend upon whether you are a French philosopher facing a plate full of jellied liver, or a film producer facing a starlet. Though not yet civilized, the web interface may nevertheless be an advance from savagery to barbarism. I worry about security. > > I can print from the printer/Linux machine, but when I tried to > > use the much-touted CUPS web-based set-up to connect to the > > printer from another Linux machine, it went totaly wonky. > > Sometimes it would take me to some crazy random place in the > > Internet, to pictures of buildings that had the same name as my > > server machine, ... > You had some misconfiguration going on there probably... Well, I hadn't configured it yet! The machine with the printer has Redhat, Samba, and Cups installed and working fine. The Windows laptop prints; bin/lpr.cups on the Linux server prints. It seemed like it should be easy to make another Linux/Cups machine print, so I did "man lpr", which said a few things not to the point and SEE ALSO CUPS Software Users Manual, http://localhost:631/documentation.html So I did that, which gave me a page: cups> The CUPS web server provides a user-friendly "wizard" interface cups> for adding your printers. Rather than figuring out which device cups> URI and PPD file to use, you can instead click on the cups> appropriate listings and fill in some simple information. Enter cups> the following URL in your web browser to begin: cups> http://localhost:631/admin cups> Click on the Add Printer button to add a printer. So I did that and nothing worked. I just tried it again, to refresh my memory what went wrong. It came up with a login box. I told it my /etc/passwd name and password (Is that what it wants? Why would it need it, I have been logged on all day? Maybe it wants some kind of printer specific name?) It just shows the login box again. I think I got past that point last time by telling it my root password, but I don't feel like trying that again right now. It was no help in setting up the printer, it just showed some forms to fill in with inscrutable labels, and occasionally locked up or hijacked my browser off to random web sites. I remembered that I had given it my password, and I had no idea why it was communicating with anything outside my local network. Paranoia strikes deep, so I stopped. > Your web browser had its auto-magical lookup functionality turned > on and went looking for what you specified when it couldn't connect > to the address you specified. I really don't think there is anything wrong with my browser (Firefox), it has never done anything at all like that before. If I had ever seen any hint of an auto-magical lookup functionality I would have shot it. > Honestly, CUPS is not that hard to configure and use these days. Well, I didn't mean to insult your baby, I was just telling my experience. I have Cups as installed by Redhat, if you could write or point me to a one page HOWTO send a file on this machine to the working printer on the other, that would be great. Maybe we could send it back to the Cups project. The documentation I have seen manages to be both voluminous and elliptical and lacks a short introduction to getting the damned thing working in the simplest case. > There was a period of history where it was pretty difficult to set > up correctly but it has been pretty solid for the last couple of > years. Maybe you have learned to do a difficult thing so well that you forgot why it was difficult. > And, even in the difficult years, it offered a level of > functionality not readily available with the rest of tools in play > at the time. But if you don't want functionality, just want to send a file upstairs in fewer steps than ftp and telnet... > CUPS is probably something you want to look into... I looked into it. It was deep and dark and I couldn't see the bottom. I got scared and ran away. > And I'd recommend it to the original poster. Near as I can remember the original poster asked about a photo- printer with a USB interface. I don't dis-recommend Cups, but I've told my story and I'm sticking to it. > (Typos and general icky-ness of the email I apologize for, had to > recreate it from a bounce message as I discovered a bit of > misconfiguration on my recently moved email server...) Every line came padded out with blanks to 80 columns. I took them out in the reply. Please don't accuse me of misquoting you. -- Keith

Sept. 4, 2004