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Re: [Wlug] cheap Compaq at Staples

by Jim Dibb

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 12:15:11 -0500, Marc Hughes <marc.hughes(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:41:32 -0500 (EST), Gary Hanley <gary(a)hanley.net> wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, Brian Waite wrote: > > > > True. However Intel is doing quite well with "Centrino" and I'd bet most > > people who buy "Centrino" have no idea what it is. (No one here, of > > course!) > > > > Isn't it just built in 802.11b? If not.. then, yeah lousy marketing =) Someone said to me the other day, "Doesn't Centrino allow you to connect anywhere in the world?", like the ad suggests when connecting from a tent on the side of a mountain. In this case I think the marketing did too good a job of selling.

Jan. 4, 2005

Re: [Wlug] cheap Compaq at Staples

by Marc Hughes

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:41:32 -0500 (EST), Gary Hanley <gary(a)hanley.net> wrote: > On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, Brian Waite wrote: > > True. However Intel is doing quite well with "Centrino" and I'd bet most > people who buy "Centrino" have no idea what it is. (No one here, of > course!) > Isn't it just built in 802.11b? If not.. then, yeah lousy marketing =)

Jan. 4, 2005

Re: [Wlug] cheap Compaq at Staples

by Bill Mills-Curran

On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 01:25:15AM -0500, Charles R. Anderson wrote: > On Wed, Dec 22, 2004 at 09:29:45PM -0500, Bill Mills-Curran wrote: > > Staples has a low-priced machine advertised in the Globe: $199.94 for > > a Compaq Presario with an AMD Sempron processor. Any idea how this > > might work with Linux? I picked up a cheap Compaq at Walmart a year > > ago, and I returned it because it was such a dog. > > I don't know, but Sempron is AMD's answer to the Celerons. I would > recommend getting a Small Business server Dell PowerEdge 400SC > instead. Those are Hyperthreading Pentium 4's, they work with Linux > (you can get it preinstalled if you like) and you are not paying any > MS-tax. In addition, they have an AGP slot (unadvertised) so you can > use them as a nice Linux desktop if you want. Dell has deals every > once in a while for these systems in the range of $300-400 in their > minimum configurations. Check slickdeals.net for the coupon codes. There's an add in today's Globe for a 420SC for $375. www.dell.com/globeoffer When I started configuring it (the online price is even cheaper), I got the following warning: The PowerEdge SC420 is ideal for your first server & network. Note: For server use only; CANNOT BE USED AS A DESKTOP. Dell does not support the use of a graphics card on the SC420. Hmm... Should I believe that? Bill

Jan. 4, 2005

Re: [Wlug] lock down /etc

by Charles R. Anderson

On Fri, Dec 31, 2004 at 03:13:09PM -0500, Brett Russ wrote: > If there's a way to distinguish between the two types of accesses I > don't know what it is. SELinux can do this.

Dec. 31, 2004

Re: [Wlug] lock down /etc

by Brett Russ

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:54:20 -0500, Justin Odom <justin.odom(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Not sure if anyone has experience with this, but I would like to lock > down the /etc directory so common users cannot run through the > directory and read all the files. However, programs still need to be > able to read the files to work. I'm not sure you can achieve what you're after--either a user can read the file or he can't. If you turn off read perms for a user, then programs running as that user also will be disallowed. If there's a way to distinguish between the two types of accesses I don't know what it is. Otherwise, maybe you should look into extended attributes--you'll need a filesystem that supports them. ReiserFS and ext3 both do, as do most others I'm sure. BR

Dec. 31, 2004

Re: [Wlug] lock down /etc

by Chuck Haines

Haha, I think that Justin means is that he has some users who think they know about Linux and keep perusing the /etc files and telling him what is wrong with them. That's my best guess. Though I think the people might be right, maybe Justin is just tired of hearing from them :) CH On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:40:46 -0800 (PST), Mike Leo <mleo963(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > yes....fire those users. > > Other than that...i got nothin' > > --- Justin Odom <justin.odom(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Not sure if anyone has experience with this, but I > > would like to lock > > down the /etc directory so common users cannot run > > through the > > directory and read all the files. However, programs > > still need to be > > able to read the files to work. > > > > I'm trying to do this because we have several users > > on our system that > > like to peruse the files within /etc. > > > > Anyone have any suggestions? > > > > Thanks for your help, > > > > Justin > > _______________________________________________ > > Wlug mailing list > > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > -- Chuck Haines chaines(a)gmail.com ------------------------------------------- Tau Kappa Epsilon Fraternity TKE-ZM Web Coordinator ECE Systems Administrator ------------------------------------------- AIM: CyberGrex YIM: CyberGrex_27 ICQ: 3707881 ------------------------------------------- GPG Fingerprint: 303A AB50 4EA9 70ED 2E30 2368 C9CD CCB5 4BD7 0989 GPG Key: http://www.maxslack.com/gpgkey.txt

Dec. 31, 2004

Re: [Wlug] cheap Compaq at Staples

by Gary Hanley

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, Brian Waite wrote: > Hyperthreading and hypertransport are vastly different beasts. Right, but the comment wasn't that they were either different or similar - it was that AMD isn't selling hypertransport while Intel is selling hyperthreading. > Where hyperthreading performance can be described by marketeers as > making your app go fatster, hypertransport will speed up everything, > but it is difficult to quantify and thus marketeers can't sell it. True. However Intel is doing quite well with "Centrino" and I'd bet most people who buy "Centrino" have no idea what it is. (No one here, of course!) My own conspiracy theory is that when Intel realized AMD was not selling hypertransport they way they should they named hyperthreading as such to create confusion with the two features. If masses hear Intel barking "hyperthreading" all the time they will assume AMD is talking about the same thing if they ever hear "hypertransport" Eh, it's my paranoid conspiracy theory. I'm sticking to it. :-) -- Gary

Dec. 31, 2004

Re: [Wlug] cheap Compaq at Staples

by Brian Waite

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:10:36 -0500 (EST), Gary Hanley <gary(a)hanley.net> wrote: > On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Charles R. Anderson wrote: > > Those are Hyperthreading Pentium 4's, > > Yea, but Hyperthreading is a nice idea that is still somewhat irrelevant > at this stage. Even with dual-cores on the horizon there has is lots of > optimizations to do before any of this power is utilized. > > More relevant now is Hypertransport, which for some reason AMD doesn't > brag about as must as Intel does for Hyperthreading. Hyperthreading and hypertransport are vastly different beasts. Hyperthreading creates two "virtual" processors on a single CPU. Here is a good description of hyperthreading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper-threading. Hypertransport, on the other hand is a chip to chip transport. It is a serial interface that makes the bits go faster. It is basically the bus logic and thus far too technical to be interesting to the marketing types. Where hyperthreading performance can be described by marketeers as making your app go fatster, hypertransport will speed up everything, but it is difficult to quantify and thus marketeers can't sell it. Just my 2 cents. Thanks Brian > > -- Gary > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

Dec. 30, 2004

Re: [Wlug] lock down /etc

by Mike Leo

yes....fire those users. Other than that...i got nothin' --- Justin Odom <justin.odom(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Not sure if anyone has experience with this, but I > would like to lock > down the /etc directory so common users cannot run > through the > directory and read all the files. However, programs > still need to be > able to read the files to work. > > I'm trying to do this because we have several users > on our system that > like to peruse the files within /etc. > > Anyone have any suggestions? > > Thanks for your help, > > Justin > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Dec. 30, 2004

Re: [Wlug] lock down /etc

by Charles R. Anderson

On Thu, Dec 30, 2004 at 01:54:20PM -0500, Justin Odom wrote: > I'm trying to do this because we have several users on our system that > like to peruse the files within /etc. > > Anyone have any suggestions? SELinux with the strict policy may be able to help here, but it would require a lot of hand policy writing and domain transitions for every program. Another possibility is to chroot users to their home directories. This has its own problems.

Dec. 30, 2004

Re: [Wlug] lock down /etc

by Brian J. Conway

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, Justin Odom wrote: > Not sure if anyone has experience with this, but I would like to lock > down the /etc directory so common users cannot run through the > directory and read all the files. However, programs still need to be > able to read the files to work. > > I'm trying to do this because we have several users on our system that > like to peruse the files within /etc. > > Anyone have any suggestions? I don't know of any automated way to do it, but most critical files should already be locked down by default from prying eyes, and anything you specifically want to hide from users can be done easily by the normal permissions/ownership means for whatever user a daemon is running as. Are you trying to hide away that pesky /etc/hosts? ;) Brian J. Conway bconway(at)alum.wpi.edu "LINUX is obsolete" - Andrew S. Tanenbaum, creator of Minix - Jan 29, 1992

Dec. 30, 2004

lock down /etc

by Justin Odom

Not sure if anyone has experience with this, but I would like to lock down the /etc directory so common users cannot run through the directory and read all the files. However, programs still need to be able to read the files to work. I'm trying to do this because we have several users on our system that like to peruse the files within /etc. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks for your help, Justin

Dec. 30, 2004

Re: [Wlug] Trouble with SATA DVD burner

by Karl Hiramoto

The linux kernel developers broke some stuff after 2.6.8 and there are docs on the cdrecord site. http://www.fokus.fhg.de/research/cc/glone/employees/joerg.schilling/private… Andy Stewart wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >On Tuesday 28 December 2004 12:47 am, Andy Stewart wrote: > > >>HI all, >> >>I'm having problems with an SATA DVD burner (Plextor 712). I can't get >>Linux to see it. Any advice you might offer would be appreciated. >> >> > >Well, I got it working with SuSE's kernel version 2.6.5-7.111.19-smp, but that >doesn't explain to me why I can't make it work with a stock 2.6.10 kernel. >Now I'm hitting the "kernel madness" which broke CD/DVD burning for all but >the root user. > >I also checked my firware revs, all of which are up to date. > >I'll still take any advice about why 2.6.10 didn't work for me. > >Thanks, > >Andy > >- -- >Andy Stewart, Founder >Worcester Linux Users' Group >Worcester, MA USA >http://www.wlug.org >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) > >iD4DBQFB0ZKwHl0iXDssISsRAjKtAJdZnVZUIpo4CtW/0mIGCqdmQ71PAJ9Nxa2U >lQ2plaRVtgIS+ErBFsdOJA== >=K7D5 >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >_______________________________________________ >Wlug mailing list >Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org >http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > -- --- Karl Hiramoto <karl(a)hiramoto.org> US VOIP: 603.966.4448 Spain Home from US 011(34) 952.827.554 Spain Home from EU 00 (34) 952.827.554 Spain Mobil 011 (34) 617.463.826 Yahoo_IM = karl_hiramoto jabber.org=karl_hiramoto ------ - Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the universe are pointed away from Earth? se

Dec. 28, 2004

Re: [Wlug] Trouble with SATA DVD burner

by Charles R. Anderson

On Tue, Dec 28, 2004 at 12:06:49PM -0500, Andy Stewart wrote: > Well, I got it working with SuSE's kernel version 2.6.5-7.111.19-smp, but that > doesn't explain to me why I can't make it work with a stock 2.6.10 kernel. > Now I'm hitting the "kernel madness" which broke CD/DVD burning for all but > the root user. I believe it was 2.6.8+ that changed the way cd burning (SCSI generic or ATAPI SG_IO) support worked. This was done to fix some security issues where a user could e.g. reflash the firmware on your drives, rendering them toasters. There is now some SCSI command filtering done to prevent such things. Fedora has pretty much abandoned ide-scsi and has switched instead to the SG_IO API directly on the underlying ATAPI device. This allows applications to send SCSI Generic commands by using the ATAPI device instead of the SG device which required the ide-scsi hack for ATAPI devices. I know this change broke a lot of things, mainly people's expectations on which device to use with cdrecord et al. It is now as simple as: cdrecord dev=/dev/hdc or similar.

Dec. 28, 2004

Re: [Wlug] Trouble with SATA DVD burner

by Andy Stewart

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 28 December 2004 12:47 am, Andy Stewart wrote: > HI all, > > I'm having problems with an SATA DVD burner (Plextor 712). I can't get > Linux to see it. Any advice you might offer would be appreciated. Well, I got it working with SuSE's kernel version 2.6.5-7.111.19-smp, but that doesn't explain to me why I can't make it work with a stock 2.6.10 kernel. Now I'm hitting the "kernel madness" which broke CD/DVD burning for all but the root user. I also checked my firware revs, all of which are up to date. I'll still take any advice about why 2.6.10 didn't work for me. Thanks, Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD4DBQFB0ZKwHl0iXDssISsRAjKtAJdZnVZUIpo4CtW/0mIGCqdmQ71PAJ9Nxa2U lQ2plaRVtgIS+ErBFsdOJA== =K7D5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Dec. 28, 2004

Proliant 1600 for sale

by Mike Leo

I go back and forth on this, but I have a Compaq Proliant 1600, dual 450 (or 500, i forget), with 6 18gig drives, plus an F1 full of 18gig drives, plus some spares. I can also put in a DLT drive. It runs fine, but is loud. I go back and forth with wanting to sell it 'cause I didn't think anyone would be interested. But is anyone? $600 for the whole shabang. I can get more specific specs once I get home. I can bring it to a lug meeting, or can arrange shipping. Let me know... Mike __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com

Dec. 28, 2004

Looking for Wine and Winelib experiences

by Ira Krakow

Hello all, I'm co-authoring a book on Wine and Winelib, scheduled to be published by Prentice Hall this summer. I'm looking for "war stories" - any experiences you have had with running Wine and/or porting Windows applications to Linux using Winelib. Please email me (ikrakow_1999(a)yahoo.com) or call (781-938-0550). Thanks. Sincerely, Ira Krakow

Dec. 28, 2004

Trouble with SATA DVD burner

by Andy Stewart

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 HI all, I'm having problems with an SATA DVD burner (Plextor 712). I can't get Linux to see it. Any advice you might offer would be appreciated. Kernel 2.6.10 x86_64 The (I think) salient portion of /var/log/messages is shown below. I get this when I "modprobe sata_via": amdtux kernel: libata version 1.10 loaded. amdtux kernel: sata_via version 1.0 amdtux kernel: sata_via(0000:00:0f.0): routed to hard irq line 10 amdtux kernel: ata1: SATA max UDMA/133 cmd 0xB800 ctl 0xBC02 bmdma 0xC800 irq 20 amdtux kernel: ata2: SATA max UDMA/133 cmd 0xC000 ctl 0xC402 bmdma 0xC808 irq 20 amdtux kernel: ata1: dev 0 cfg 49:0f00 82:0000 83:0000 84:0000 85:0000 86:0000 87:0000 88:0407 amdtux kernel: ata1: dev 0 ATAPI, max UDMA/33 amdtux kernel: ata1: dev 0 configured for UDMA/33 amdtux kernel: scsi3 : sata_via amdtux kernel: ata2: no device found (phy stat 00000000) amdtux kernel: scsi4 : sata_via The chipset is VIA VT8237. The rest of the system: MB = MSI K8T Master2 FAR (2xOpteron 244) adaptec 29160 with 1 scsi disk atapi dvdrom sata plextor 712 crappy pci-based sound card ATI Radeon 7500 onboard Gb ethernet onboard usb Another data point: I booted KNOPPIX V3.6 (kernel 2.6.7), in the hope that its generally good hardware detection might make this device magically work. It notices the drive quite nicely and tries to make it available as "hde" (as seen in dmesg). However, once KNOPPIX comes up, I cannot successfully do anything with the drive. I'll burn a KNOPPIX V3.next CD and try this to see if the result changes (since that CD will probably have a more recent kernel). This gives me some hope that this device *might* work with Linux. FYI: When buying HW to build this system, I ordered the Plextor 712 ATAPI version, figuring I'd have trouble like this with SATA. The vendor shipped me the SATA drive at the cheaper ATAPI price...go figure. Thanks, Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFB0PNqHl0iXDssISsRAu8KAJ96wviwjcevfQqRMfoy4fhldIP8OACfWdfQ zlGuL+Wtv9B0iej751ZqPLo= =gRGH -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Dec. 28, 2004

Re: [Wlug] cheap Compaq at Staples

by Bill Mills-Curran

On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 01:30:44PM -0500, Michelle Vadeboncoeur wrote: > On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Chuck Haines wrote: > > CH>Any link for this or is this a in-store only? My dad is looking for a > CH>new desktop for cheap and doesn't need much and this would be perfect > CH>for him. > > http://instorespecials.staples.com/ > > I looked at the Dec. 19 - Dec. 24 circulars ("Current Circular") for both > Worcester MA (storeid=2401091) and Boston MA (storeID=2421006), and there > are no Compaq products listed in the weekly flyer. > > I also checked with http://www.salescircular.com/ma.shtml , and I didn't > find any computer system selling for $199.94 this week in MA among the > stores they follow (store list is here: > http://www.salescircular.com/storedtl.html ). > > I also checked with http://www.saleshound.com/saleshound/store_list.asp > and searched for "Compaq" at stores 50 miles from Boston, MA, and there > were no results. > > Is the $199.94 Compaq Presario listed in the Boston Globe a special for a > particular store, or is it maybe in next week's flyers? > > -- > --==*==-- --==*==-- Michelle R. Vadeboncoeur --==*==-- --==*==-- > mrv(a)kluge.net: http://www.kluge.net/~mrv/ I think it was in a 12/20/4 flyer. But, they were all sold out in the first day. Bill

Dec. 26, 2004

Re: [Wlug] cheap Compaq at Staples

by Bill Mills-Curran

After waiting long enough to decide that, yes, I want to buy this, I discovered they were all sold out. :-( Bill On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 11:13:29AM -0500, Chuck Haines wrote: > Any link for this or is this a in-store only? My dad is looking for a > new desktop for cheap and doesn't need much and this would be perfect > for him. > > CH > > On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 21:29:45 -0500, Bill Mills-Curran > <bill(a)mills-curran.net> wrote: > > Staples has a low-priced machine advertised in the Globe: $199.94 for > > a Compaq Presario with an AMD Sempron processor. Any idea how this > > might work with Linux? I picked up a cheap Compaq at Walmart a year > > ago, and I returned it because it was such a dog. > > > > TIA, > > Bill > > _______________________________________________ > > Wlug mailing list > > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > > -- > Chuck Haines > chaines(a)gmail.com > ------------------------------------------- > Tau Kappa Epsilon Fraternity > TKE-ZM Web Coordinator > ECE Systems Administrator > ------------------------------------------- > AIM: CyberGrex > YIM: CyberGrex_27 > ICQ: 3707881 > ------------------------------------------- > GPG Fingerprint: 303A AB50 4EA9 70ED 2E30 2368 C9CD CCB5 4BD7 0989 > GPG Key: http://www.maxslack.com/gpgkey.txt > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Dec. 26, 2004

Re: [Wlug] Sun's x86 Strategy

by Brian J. Conway

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Gary Hanley wrote: > Hello all. > > I came across this article today that some might find interesting. It touches > on Sun's disadvantage with regard to Solaris development costs compared to > Linux and how it plans to deal with that, as well as the probable demise of > UltraSparc. > > http://www.techuser.net/sunx86.html An interesting read, but people have been predicting "the death of Sparc" every year for the past 10 years (and let's not forget "this is the year of Linux on the everyman's desktop"). I'll believe both when I see them. ;) Brian J. Conway bconway(at)alum.wpi.edu "LINUX is obsolete" - Andrew S. Tanenbaum, creator of Minix - Jan 29, 1992

Dec. 23, 2004

Sun's x86 Strategy

by Gary Hanley

Hello all. I came across this article today that some might find interesting. It touches on Sun's disadvantage with regard to Solaris development costs compared to Linux and how it plans to deal with that, as well as the probable demise of UltraSparc. http://www.techuser.net/sunx86.html -- Gary

Dec. 23, 2004

Re: [Wlug] cheap Compaq at Staples

by Michelle Vadeboncoeur

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Chuck Haines wrote: CH>Any link for this or is this a in-store only? My dad is looking for a CH>new desktop for cheap and doesn't need much and this would be perfect CH>for him. http://instorespecials.staples.com/ I looked at the Dec. 19 - Dec. 24 circulars ("Current Circular") for both Worcester MA (storeid=2401091) and Boston MA (storeID=2421006), and there are no Compaq products listed in the weekly flyer. I also checked with http://www.salescircular.com/ma.shtml , and I didn't find any computer system selling for $199.94 this week in MA among the stores they follow (store list is here: http://www.salescircular.com/storedtl.html ). I also checked with http://www.saleshound.com/saleshound/store_list.asp and searched for "Compaq" at stores 50 miles from Boston, MA, and there were no results. Is the $199.94 Compaq Presario listed in the Boston Globe a special for a particular store, or is it maybe in next week's flyers? -- --==*==-- --==*==-- Michelle R. Vadeboncoeur --==*==-- --==*==-- mrv(a)kluge.net: http://www.kluge.net/~mrv/

Dec. 23, 2004

Re: [Wlug] cheap Compaq at Staples

by Gary Hanley

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Jeff Moyer wrote: > And this gets back to the part from my previous email that you conveniently > left out: > I wouldn't call HT irrelevant. It really depends on your workload. I thought I responded to that. Anyway, my end-point is that dual-core/multi-core will be much more relevant than Hyperthreading will EVER be. > Having said that, what influences *my* buying decision is > sharkeyextreme.com. But I like to game. ;-) I used to read Sharky until he sold the site a few years back and it became rather dull. I haven't looked since then so maybe it's much better now...? I usually read: http://www.anandtech.com/ http://www.aceshardware.com/ -- Gary

Dec. 23, 2004

Re: [Wlug] cheap Compaq at Staples

by Jeff Moyer

==> Regarding Re: [Wlug] cheap Compaq at Staples; Gary Hanley <gary(a)hanley.net> adds: gary> On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Jeff Moyer wrote: >> Under Linux, the SMP kernel has provisions to deal with HT. I'm sure >> Windows XP does, as well. As such, it isn't necessary for applications >> to directly take advantage of HT. gary> Sure, but how much of a boost is that going to get you from an app gary> that is single-threaded? I would argue that it is not enough to gary> influence a buying decision. And this gets back to the part from my previous email that you conveniently left out: I wouldn't call HT irrelevant. It really depends on your workload. Having said that, what influences *my* buying decision is sharkeyextreme.com. But I like to game. ;-) -Jeff

Dec. 23, 2004