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Re: [Wlug] Xinerama issues with Fedora Core 8...

by Tim Keller

Actually, I found *another* radeon card that has two inputs and I followed your instructions and now I have cloned monitors... so I'm going in the right direction... How do I unclone them? Thanks, Tim. BTW... here is my xorg.conf file for reference... # Xorg configuration created by system-config-display Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Duel head single card setup" Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Keyboard0" Driver "kbd" Option "XkbModel" "pc105" Option "XkbLayout" "us+inet" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Videocard0" Driver "radeon" Option "Monitor-VGA-0" Option "Monitor-DVI-0" BusID "PCI:1:9:0" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "first" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "second" Option "RightOf" "first" EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Videocard0" Monitor "first" DefaultDepth 24 SubSection "Display" Viewport 0 0 Virtual 2560 1024 Depth 24 EndSubSection EndSection On Nov 19, 2007 4:06 PM, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > On Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 03:25:19PM -0500, Tim Keller wrote: > > So... if I'm reading this right... I'm stuck then... since I have > monitors > > on separate video cards. > > > > I know it's cool that xrandr can do all this funky stuff, but I'd just > be > > happy to keep existing functionality. > > > > What are my options now... downgrade my X server? > > I guess so... good luck getting an older Xorg to run on Fedora 8. > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > -- I am leary of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Nov. 20, 2007

Re: [Wlug] initrd.img file

by Jeff Moyer

vze284qe(a)verizon.net writes: > Hello, > > I built a custom "gutsy gibbon" kernel, but I can't find the > corresponding initrd.img file. There's a link in / that looks like this: > initrd.img-> boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-generic. > > Shouldn't there be a new initrd.img file that was created when I built > the new kernel or am I missing something? I'm not sure what process you used to build your kernel, but it's not uncommon to have to build the initrd yourself. mkinitrd /boot/initrd-2.6.X-mumble.img 2.6.X-mumble Cheers, Jeff

Nov. 20, 2007

Re: [Wlug] initrd.img file

by Gregory Avedissian

Chuck wrote: > Hello, > > I built a custom "gutsy gibbon" kernel, but I can't find the > corresponding initrd.img file. There's a link in / that looks like this: > initrd.img-> boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-generic. > > Shouldn't there be a new initrd.img file that was created when I built > the new kernel or am I missing something? > > TIA, Yes, there should be a new initrd.img after you install the new linux-image.deb file that you created. Did you get a vmlinuz link to the correct kernel image, or is that still pointing to the generic kernel? I'm assuming you did this the debian/ubuntu way, and ran a command that looked something like this - make-kpkg -initrd --revision=ck12 kernel_image kernel_headers modules_image That should create some .deb files in the parent directory. Then you use 'dpkg -i' to install those debs, and you should end up with new links for vmlinuz and initrd.img. If you did everything right, and it still doesn't work, I'm not sure what to say. Did you check the ubuntu forums to see if others are having the same problem? Greg

Nov. 20, 2007

Re: [Wlug] initrd.img file

by Karl Hiramoto

vze284qe(a)verizon.net wrote: > Hello, > > I built a custom "gutsy gibbon" kernel, but I can't find the > corresponding initrd.img file. There's a link in / that looks like this: > initrd.img-> boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-generic. > > Shouldn't there be a new initrd.img file that was created when I built > the new kernel or am I missing something? > > TIA, > If you built all of your necessary drivers to boot the machine into the kernel (not as modules) you don't need a initial ramdisk. Just set your grub to point to the kernel image. --karl

Nov. 20, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Linux Choix?

by Robert Schwein

I'm not inclined to agree with the herd on this. I've deployed SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop into some businesses and three campuses of a school system. Xen was part of the distro (an important consideration) so I also loaded XP on the boxes that needed to run Windows apps. None of this dual boot stuff. They've called Novell's tech support on occasion and their feedback to me has been very positive. They didn't have to come back to me for problems. Candidly, I found this Linux distro a lot easier to integrate into a MAC (OS9 and OS-X) environment; that also was an important consideration. Just my experience from the trenches. Bob Greater Worcester Land Trust wrote: > It has been a while. > > I tried getting our nonprofit (Worcester land conservation) to adopt Linux > some years back. > Problem I had back then was weak graphic options, publisher options, Quicken > options, and a lack of a good answer to running ArcGIS. > I was beaten back into M$. > > I want another crack at this. > > I am looking to take a spare laptop and install a Linux OS and OS apps. > Previously, some years back, I used to use what are now Mandriva Linux > installs. > > Coming back to this I see that there are dozens and dozens of options these > days. > > What, if any, of the options do the WLUG folk prefer/recommend. > > Thanks so much, > > Colin > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

Nov. 20, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Xinerama issues with Fedora Core 8...

by Jamie Guinan

Can you downgrade the individual driver(s)? See this thread from this morning, http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2007-November/030311.html -Jamie On Mon, 19 Nov 2007, Tim Keller wrote: > So... if I'm reading this right... I'm stuck then... since I have monitors > on separate video cards. > > I know it's cool that xrandr can do all this funky stuff, but I'd just be > happy to keep existing functionality. > > What are my options now... downgrade my X server? > > On Nov 19, 2007 1:34 PM, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > > > On Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 01:07:54PM -0500, Tim Keller wrote: > > > As far as I can tell... Xinerama support is totally borked in Fedora > > Core > > > 8. Has anybody come across any solutions? > > > > Xinerama is no longer supported in Xorg. But not to fear! It has > > been replaced by a new, dynamic method of doing dual-head with the > > XRandR extension. Unfortunately, neither the Release Notes nor the > > system-config-display tool have taken these changes into account. > > Also, this won't work with multiple separate video cards, only single > > video cards with multiple output on them. The fact that the X server > > segfaults when configured with Xinerama is a bug. > > > > You can turn on/off and configure multiple displays all dynamically > > using the xrandr command. Try this to display the available outputs > > while the X server is running: > > > > xrandr > > > > To configure a specific output, try these commands: > > > > xrandr --output DVI-1 --auto > > > > Or: > > > > xrandr --output DVI-1 --mode 1024x768 > > > > To configure dual-head (NOTE: You have to pre-configure the maximum > > combined virtual resolution you want to use in xorg.conf first, as > > specified below): > > > > xrandr --output DVI-1 --right-of DVI-0 > > > > This is nice because it means you can dynamically set up dual-head for > > an external VGA port on a laptop going to an LCD projector, for > > example. The internal LCD and external VGA could run at different > > resolutions too. > > > > For more fun, you can play with rotating screen images. > > > > You can also configure this in xorg.conf. The key differences from > > traditional multi-head and Xinerama are that you only use a single > > Screen in your ServerLayout section: > > > > Section "ServerLayout" > > Identifier "new dual-head configuration" > > Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 > > InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" > > EndSection > > > > Then refer to multiple monitors in the Device section. Here the > > format is Option "Monitor-<actual-monitor-id-from-xrandr>" > > "<monitor-identifier>" > > > > Section "Device" > > Identifier "Videocard0" > > Driver "radeon" > > Option "Monitor-DVI-0" "first" > > Option "Monitor-DVI-1" "second" > > EndSection > > > > Then specify the multiple Monitor sections themselves, using the > > monitor-identifiers specified above, with the placement options > > RightOf or LeftOf: > > > > Section "Monitor" > > Identifier "first" > > EndSection > > > > Section "Monitor" > > Identifier "second" > > Option "RightOf" "first" > > EndSection > > > > And then of course the single screen section. Note that you MUST > > specify the Virtual resolution as the sum of the resolutions of the > > multiple monitors you want to use (either horizontally or vertically, > > depending on your preferred monitor orientation). So below I have > > specified Virtual 3200 1200 so that I can place two 1600x1200 monitors > > side-by-side. The Monitor "first" is there just to satisfy the > > requirement for a Monitor to be specified--you don't put both monitors > > here. > > > > Section "Screen" > > Identifier "Screen0" > > Device "Videocard0" > > Monitor "first" > > DefaultDepth 24 > > SubSection "Display" > > Viewport 0 0 > > Virtual 3200 1200 > > Depth 24 > > Modes "1600x1200" "1600x1024" "1440x900" "1400x1050" > > "1360x768" "1280x1024" "1280x960" "1280x800" "1280x720" "1152x864" > > "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" > > EndSubSection > > EndSection > > _______________________________________________ > > Wlug mailing list > > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > > > -- > I am leary of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". >

Nov. 19, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Xinerama issues with Fedora Core 8...

by Chuck Anderson

On Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 03:25:19PM -0500, Tim Keller wrote: > So... if I'm reading this right... I'm stuck then... since I have monitors > on separate video cards. > > I know it's cool that xrandr can do all this funky stuff, but I'd just be > happy to keep existing functionality. > > What are my options now... downgrade my X server? I guess so... good luck getting an older Xorg to run on Fedora 8.

Nov. 19, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Xinerama issues with Fedora Core 8...

by Tim Keller

So... if I'm reading this right... I'm stuck then... since I have monitors on separate video cards. I know it's cool that xrandr can do all this funky stuff, but I'd just be happy to keep existing functionality. What are my options now... downgrade my X server? On Nov 19, 2007 1:34 PM, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > On Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 01:07:54PM -0500, Tim Keller wrote: > > As far as I can tell... Xinerama support is totally borked in Fedora > Core > > 8. Has anybody come across any solutions? > > Xinerama is no longer supported in Xorg. But not to fear! It has > been replaced by a new, dynamic method of doing dual-head with the > XRandR extension. Unfortunately, neither the Release Notes nor the > system-config-display tool have taken these changes into account. > Also, this won't work with multiple separate video cards, only single > video cards with multiple output on them. The fact that the X server > segfaults when configured with Xinerama is a bug. > > You can turn on/off and configure multiple displays all dynamically > using the xrandr command. Try this to display the available outputs > while the X server is running: > > xrandr > > To configure a specific output, try these commands: > > xrandr --output DVI-1 --auto > > Or: > > xrandr --output DVI-1 --mode 1024x768 > > To configure dual-head (NOTE: You have to pre-configure the maximum > combined virtual resolution you want to use in xorg.conf first, as > specified below): > > xrandr --output DVI-1 --right-of DVI-0 > > This is nice because it means you can dynamically set up dual-head for > an external VGA port on a laptop going to an LCD projector, for > example. The internal LCD and external VGA could run at different > resolutions too. > > For more fun, you can play with rotating screen images. > > You can also configure this in xorg.conf. The key differences from > traditional multi-head and Xinerama are that you only use a single > Screen in your ServerLayout section: > > Section "ServerLayout" > Identifier "new dual-head configuration" > Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 > InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" > EndSection > > Then refer to multiple monitors in the Device section. Here the > format is Option "Monitor-<actual-monitor-id-from-xrandr>" > "<monitor-identifier>" > > Section "Device" > Identifier "Videocard0" > Driver "radeon" > Option "Monitor-DVI-0" "first" > Option "Monitor-DVI-1" "second" > EndSection > > Then specify the multiple Monitor sections themselves, using the > monitor-identifiers specified above, with the placement options > RightOf or LeftOf: > > Section "Monitor" > Identifier "first" > EndSection > > Section "Monitor" > Identifier "second" > Option "RightOf" "first" > EndSection > > And then of course the single screen section. Note that you MUST > specify the Virtual resolution as the sum of the resolutions of the > multiple monitors you want to use (either horizontally or vertically, > depending on your preferred monitor orientation). So below I have > specified Virtual 3200 1200 so that I can place two 1600x1200 monitors > side-by-side. The Monitor "first" is there just to satisfy the > requirement for a Monitor to be specified--you don't put both monitors > here. > > Section "Screen" > Identifier "Screen0" > Device "Videocard0" > Monitor "first" > DefaultDepth 24 > SubSection "Display" > Viewport 0 0 > Virtual 3200 1200 > Depth 24 > Modes "1600x1200" "1600x1024" "1440x900" "1400x1050" > "1360x768" "1280x1024" "1280x960" "1280x800" "1280x720" "1152x864" > "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" > EndSubSection > EndSection > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > -- I am leary of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Nov. 19, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Information for Linux newbies?

by Brian A. Dewhirst

One of the most basic things that I had to learn with ubuntu was how to access the support which exists... and there is a lot of it on the web. Googling "howto ubuntu FOO" can kill half of my problems in the first ten hits. Synaptic and the Update manager etc. are also key. On Nov 19, 2007 1:32 PM, Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Kevin, > > I guess the question I would first ask is: "What's the technical > inclinations of the people you're going to be teaching?". > > If their geeks like us, then I'd go into using package managers and I'd talk > about the nitty gritty stuff. > > If their not geeks, then you need to take a different tact. Instead of > talking about linux as an operating system and extolling the virtues of open > source, instead talk about the applications that are available on linux and > how they stack up to what their already using. > > The games question is a sticky one... there are lots of cool games for > linux, any particular genre you're interested in? > > > > > On Nov 18, 2007 12:01 AM, Kevin Harrington < mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > As i mentioned at the meeting this past week I am going to be giving a > > seminar for linux newbies and would like to pull from people that > > know better then i do on what i should teach people. What i would like > > to know is: What are some things that you wish you had known as a > > newbie? Think back to your very first linux install and any > > short-cuts, tips, tricks, and gatcha's that would make peoples first > > experience easier. There is a lot of windows resentment after the slow > > trainwreck that is vista, so lets see if we can get a few new > > converts! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. one of the big concerns for a few people that i have talked to > > has been games, if anyone has a list of new-ish games that work or any > > tips specific to making the most recent generation work under linux, > > that would make things much easier ;) > > _______________________________________________ > > Wlug mailing list > > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > > > -- > I am leary of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

Nov. 19, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Xinerama issues with Fedora Core 8...

by Chuck Anderson

On Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 01:07:54PM -0500, Tim Keller wrote: > As far as I can tell... Xinerama support is totally borked in Fedora Core > 8. Has anybody come across any solutions? Xinerama is no longer supported in Xorg. But not to fear! It has been replaced by a new, dynamic method of doing dual-head with the XRandR extension. Unfortunately, neither the Release Notes nor the system-config-display tool have taken these changes into account. Also, this won't work with multiple separate video cards, only single video cards with multiple output on them. The fact that the X server segfaults when configured with Xinerama is a bug. You can turn on/off and configure multiple displays all dynamically using the xrandr command. Try this to display the available outputs while the X server is running: xrandr To configure a specific output, try these commands: xrandr --output DVI-1 --auto Or: xrandr --output DVI-1 --mode 1024x768 To configure dual-head (NOTE: You have to pre-configure the maximum combined virtual resolution you want to use in xorg.conf first, as specified below): xrandr --output DVI-1 --right-of DVI-0 This is nice because it means you can dynamically set up dual-head for an external VGA port on a laptop going to an LCD projector, for example. The internal LCD and external VGA could run at different resolutions too. For more fun, you can play with rotating screen images. You can also configure this in xorg.conf. The key differences from traditional multi-head and Xinerama are that you only use a single Screen in your ServerLayout section: Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "new dual-head configuration" Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" EndSection Then refer to multiple monitors in the Device section. Here the format is Option "Monitor-<actual-monitor-id-from-xrandr>" "<monitor-identifier>" Section "Device" Identifier "Videocard0" Driver "radeon" Option "Monitor-DVI-0" "first" Option "Monitor-DVI-1" "second" EndSection Then specify the multiple Monitor sections themselves, using the monitor-identifiers specified above, with the placement options RightOf or LeftOf: Section "Monitor" Identifier "first" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "second" Option "RightOf" "first" EndSection And then of course the single screen section. Note that you MUST specify the Virtual resolution as the sum of the resolutions of the multiple monitors you want to use (either horizontally or vertically, depending on your preferred monitor orientation). So below I have specified Virtual 3200 1200 so that I can place two 1600x1200 monitors side-by-side. The Monitor "first" is there just to satisfy the requirement for a Monitor to be specified--you don't put both monitors here. Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Videocard0" Monitor "first" DefaultDepth 24 SubSection "Display" Viewport 0 0 Virtual 3200 1200 Depth 24 Modes "1600x1200" "1600x1024" "1440x900" "1400x1050" "1360x768" "1280x1024" "1280x960" "1280x800" "1280x720" "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection EndSection

Nov. 19, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Information for Linux newbies?

by Tim Keller

Kevin, I guess the question I would first ask is: "What's the technical inclinations of the people you're going to be teaching?". If their geeks like us, then I'd go into using package managers and I'd talk about the nitty gritty stuff. If their not geeks, then you need to take a different tact. Instead of talking about linux as an operating system and extolling the virtues of open source, instead talk about the applications that are available on linux and how they stack up to what their already using. The games question is a sticky one... there are lots of cool games for linux, any particular genre you're interested in? On Nov 18, 2007 12:01 AM, Kevin Harrington <mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> wrote: > As i mentioned at the meeting this past week I am going to be giving a > seminar for linux newbies and would like to pull from people that > know better then i do on what i should teach people. What i would like > to know is: What are some things that you wish you had known as a > newbie? Think back to your very first linux install and any > short-cuts, tips, tricks, and gatcha's that would make peoples first > experience easier. There is a lot of windows resentment after the slow > trainwreck that is vista, so lets see if we can get a few new > converts! > > > > > > > > P.S. one of the big concerns for a few people that i have talked to > has been games, if anyone has a list of new-ish games that work or any > tips specific to making the most recent generation work under linux, > that would make things much easier ;) > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > -- I am leary of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Nov. 19, 2007

Xinerama issues with Fedora Core 8...

by Tim Keller

Hey Gang, I had a perfectly working Fedora Core 6 system and I had to go mess things up... I backed up my whole system and did a clean install of Fedora Core 8, only to find that my >old< xorg.conf config doesn't work anymore... I was able to get a config finally working, but only on a single monitor. Here's my setup: Screen 1: DELL LCD panel connected to an onboard AGP intel video card Screen 2: DELL LCD panel connected to a PCI ATI Radeon video card Now, I have config files that'll drive one or the other, but not both. The moment I enable Xinerama, the X server crashes with a signal 11. As far as I can tell... Xinerama support is totally borked in Fedora Core 8. Has anybody come across any solutions? Thanks, Tim. -- I am leary of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Nov. 19, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Linux Choix?

by Lee Keyser-Allen

Colin, No need to apologize. It may help you to understand what Parallels does, though, so you can figure out whether it's appropriate for you. The first piece of information that may be helpful is that, while it was originally for the Mac, and its best supported platform is still the Mac, it can run on both Windows and Linux. What Parallels (and software like it) does is to create a virtual computer that can run on your currently installed OS. VMWare is (I think) the commercial pioneer in this field, and is perhaps still the most well known. What this means, in practice, though is that you are not really getting away from Windows, since you are actually running a full copy of windows in its own sandbox. Think of it as running a dual-boot machine, except that you don't have to reboot your native OS to start running the 'Virtual' one. The advantage of this is that you can run virtually *any* windows app (including most games ... although the performance can suffer) in your Linux (or NT/XP or Mac) machine. Generally speaking, however, this is not really a final solution for most people. You still are running windows, and as such must pay for the license and deal with the flakiness. It is sometimes a reasonable interim step when you have applications that simply do not play well (or at all) on Linux. There are also side-benefits with this sort of setup, involving easily saving and restoring configurations and operating environments, and from what I've seen of Parallels, the nested OS is still pretty responsive (this is in sharp contrast to the first time I ran VMWare about 7 years ago ... it was not fast, although it was *very* cool :) ) I hope that that is a (relatively) clear explanation of how that works. Feel free to e-mail me on or off list if you have any other questions. Cheers, Lee On Nov 17, 2007 10:59 PM, Colin Novick <c-novick-1(a)alumni.uchicago.edu> wrote: > Apologies. Deepest even. > > Before anyone needs to chastise me I looked it up and OS X is more Next and > other sources than Linux per se. > > Apparently Parallels on OS X will run Win and Lin, but the underlying OS is > OS X and does not imply that ArcGIS would be stably emulated by a Linux > machine emulating Win. > > Sorry. > > Hope not to have too terribly offended in my ignorance. > > Colin > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > -- Lee Keyser-Allen (lkeyser(a)alum.wpi.edu)

Nov. 19, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Linux Choix?

by Richard Klein

On Nov 17, 2007 10:59 PM, Colin Novick <c-novick-1(a)alumni.uchicago.edu> wrote: > > Before anyone needs to chastise me I looked it up and OS X is more Next and > other sources than Linux per se. Not to chastise you, but I wanted a definitive answer, so I turned to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mac_OS_X#Development_outside_of_App…) "NeXTSTEP was based on the Mach kernel and BSD, an implementation of Unix dating back to the 1970s. Perhaps more remarkably, it featured an object-oriented programming framework based on the Objective-C language. This environment is known today in the Mac world as Cocoa. It also supported the innovative Enterprise Objects Framework database access layer and WebObjects application server development environment, among other notable features. All but abandoning the idea of an operating system, NeXT managed to maintain a business selling WebObjects and consulting services, but was never a commercial success. NeXTSTEP underwent an evolution into OPENSTEP which separated the object layers from the operating system below, allowing it to run with less modification on other platforms. OPENSTEP was, for a short time, adopted by Sun Microsystems. However, by this point, a number of other companies — notably Apple, IBM, Microsoft, and even Sun itself — were claiming they would soon be releasing similar object-oriented operating systems and development tools of their own. (Some of these efforts, such as Taligent, did not fully come to fruition; others, like Java, gained widespread adoption.) Following an announcement on December 20, 1996,[1] on February 4, 1997 Apple Computer acquired NeXT for $427 million, and used OPENSTEP as the basis for Mac OS X.[2] Traces of the NeXT software heritage can still be seen in Mac OS X. For example, in the Cocoa development environment, the Objective-C library classes have "NS" prefixes, and the HISTORY section of the manual page for the defaults command in Mac OS X straightforwardly states that the command "First appeared in NeXTStep."" So, yes, OS X is based on OPENSTEP, an evolution of NeXTSTEP. And it's based on BSD. And it's based on Mach. -- Rich

Nov. 18, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Information for Linux newbies?

by Andy Stewart

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Kevin Harrington wrote: > As i mentioned at the meeting this past week I am going to be giving a > seminar for linux newbies and would like to pull from people that > know better then i do on what i should teach people. What i would like > to know is: What are some things that you wish you had known as a > newbie? Think back to your very first linux install and any > short-cuts, tips, tricks, and gatcha's that would make peoples first > experience easier. There is a lot of windows resentment after the slow > trainwreck that is vista, so lets see if we can get a few new > converts! Hi Kevin, When I was a newbie, Linux live CDs didn't yet exist, but they do now! I find the Knoppix CD/DVD useful for testing a new piece of hardware (like a laptop) to see if all of the pieces work with Linux. I believe that the Ubuntu CDs can also boot up in a live mode. In this way, you can try Linux without messing with your hard drive, and also see if your hardware works with that distribution. Note that if something doesn't work with the live CD, that doesn't necessarily mean it won't work with Linux at all, but demonstrating that something *does* work is a good thing. Just a thought... So, when are you resurrecting WPILA?! :-) Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group (http://www.wlug.org) Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group (http://linux.meetup.com/393) Amateur Radio: KB1OIQ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHP8pAHl0iXDssISsRAkIlAJ9jTYAhCb3UkpsR7d1A4AWtufiv4wCgiICP 1T+k0toR3pc9MyRrDjSM2PE= =oBFq -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Nov. 18, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Information for Linux newbies?

by Mike Leo

Where the heck is everything? http://tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/html/sect_03_01.html has a nice chart I think one thing that frustrates people is their relative path to everything...you can't cd /mike unless you're already in /home for instance. Even from the GUI's, Windows people will start at C:\ and move around from there. ----- Original Message ---- From: Kevin Harrington <mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 12:01:05 AM Subject: [Wlug] Information for Linux newbies? As i mentioned at the meeting this past week I am going to be giving a seminar for linux newbies and would like to pull from people that know better then i do on what i should teach people. What i would like to know is: What are some things that you wish you had known as a newbie? Think back to your very first linux install and any short-cuts, tips, tricks, and gatcha's that would make peoples first experience easier. There is a lot of windows resentment after the slow trainwreck that is vista, so lets see if we can get a few new converts! P.S. one of the big concerns for a few people that i have talked to has been games, if anyone has a list of new-ish games that work or any tips specific to making the most recent generation work under linux, that would make things much easier ;) _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Nov. 18, 2007

Information for Linux newbies?

by Kevin Harrington

As i mentioned at the meeting this past week I am going to be giving a seminar for linux newbies and would like to pull from people that know better then i do on what i should teach people. What i would like to know is: What are some things that you wish you had known as a newbie? Think back to your very first linux install and any short-cuts, tips, tricks, and gatcha's that would make peoples first experience easier. There is a lot of windows resentment after the slow trainwreck that is vista, so lets see if we can get a few new converts! P.S. one of the big concerns for a few people that i have talked to has been games, if anyone has a list of new-ish games that work or any tips specific to making the most recent generation work under linux, that would make things much easier ;)

Nov. 18, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Linux Choix?

by Andy Stewart

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Walt Sawyer wrote: > Some banks (like mine-Ben Franklin) will allow the customer to download > a .qif file when banking online.. GnuCash imports that and will check > for duplicate entries. It works well (after using it for a year). I > like it. > Walt Besides GnuCash, there is also KMyMoney (a KDE application). Does anybody have any experience with it? I am fairly certain it can import a QIF or (perhaps) a QFX file (both Quicken formats). I am seriously considering dumping Quicken for one or the other of these, but as of know, I know not which one. Later, Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group (http://www.wlug.org) Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group (http://linux.meetup.com/393) Amateur Radio: KB1OIQ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHP72NHl0iXDssISsRAuj0AJ9s6Z4GYc1h55Y7GNfgAlv0O7VoYgCeNe9S r2KHOY00I8L0PhIm3qjvKkg= =zrxP -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Nov. 18, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Linux Choix?

by Walt Sawyer

Some banks (like mine-Ben Franklin) will allow the customer to download a .qif file when banking online.. GnuCash imports that and will check for duplicate entries. It works well (after using it for a year). I like it. Walt Eric Martin wrote: > John Stoffel wrote: > > Mike> There is one application and one process that is keeping me from > > Mike> being able to completely eliminate getting rid of windows. That > > Mike> is Quickbooks and syncing to my nokia 9300. I use SugarCRM for > > Mike> customer and marketing related related activities. Is there an > > Mike> open source alternative to quickbooks and to sync to my nokia > > Mike> (symbian os)? > > > Have you looked at gnucash as a QuickBooks replacement? I just wish > > I was anal enough to bother putting all my home/personal expenses into > > GnuCash, but I'm balking at re-typing my credit card and bank > > statements into it. > > > This is the Quicken advantage, they can talk to alot of banks and > > credit card companies to import data easily. > > > Actually, GnuCash can do this too, if your bank/CCC supports exporting > > in one of the standard financial formats. Now if I could just get my > > bank to *email* me an encrypted statement each month, I'd be happy... > > GNUcash can handle grabbing stuff online the same way quicken does. > The problem is most banks / credit cards (that I've tried) check for > quicken, so it doesn't work easily. I'm trying to get back into > punching my stuff into gnucash so I'll let you know how it goes. > > As for the Nokia, sorry, no clue. > Ditto > > Eric _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Nov. 18, 2007

Linux Choix?

by Colin Novick

Apologies. Deepest even. Before anyone needs to chastise me I looked it up and OS X is more Next and other sources than Linux per se. Apparently Parallels on OS X will run Win and Lin, but the underlying OS is OS X and does not imply that ArcGIS would be stably emulated by a Linux machine emulating Win. Sorry. Hope not to have too terribly offended in my ignorance. Colin

Nov. 18, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Linux Choix? Mach kernel

by Keith Wright

> From: Mike Leo <mleo963(a)yahoo.com> > > A pleasant correction... > > Mac OSX is a BSD derivative, not Linux, though they are similar. I am pretty sure that OSX uses the Mach microkernel, the same one used by the GNU Hurd, and which was developed by Rick Rashid et.al. at CMU in the 1980's. Last I knew Rick took a job at MS as Director of Research, or something like that. I know these things because I was a small part of the et.al. mentioned above. Mach was meant as a base on which to build a Unix-like OS, and FreeBSD had a large influence on how Mach was turned into OSX. I don't know if there is actual code from FreeBSD in it. (Apple has been lax in telling me before they do anything.) Many "Linux" programs, many of which are really GNU programs, run on OSX. -- Keith

Nov. 18, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Linux Choix?

by Mike Leo

A pleasant correction... Mac OSX is a BSD derivative, not Linux, though they are similar. ----- Original Message ---- From: Colin Novick <c-novick-1(a)alumni.uchicago.edu> To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 9:23:49 PM Subject: [Wlug] Linux Choix? Steve, Thanks for the ArcGIS thoughts! I did some digging and came across this: http://spanring.eu/blog/2006/07/02/arcgis-on-mac-os-x-2/ They were getting ArcGIS 9.X to run (well even) on MacOS X with Parallels; Now I am a born-again newbie but as I understand it OS X is a Linux derivative, and Parallels is a means of faking a Windows OS (XP etc.) on the Mac. Do folks know if this might mean there is some hope for a Linux install that can be rigged to run Arc? Thanks so much, PS ESRI's (producer of Arc) site is supremely unhelpful as they aren't interested in much other than server support for Linux and a basic reader function. PPS Red Hat's site didn't give me much to go on.

Nov. 18, 2007

Linux Choix?

by Colin Novick

Steve, Thanks for the ArcGIS thoughts! I did some digging and came across this: http://spanring.eu/blog/2006/07/02/arcgis-on-mac-os-x-2/ They were getting ArcGIS 9.X to run (well even) on MacOS X with Parallels; Now I am a born-again newbie but as I understand it OS X is a Linux derivative, and Parallels is a means of faking a Windows OS (XP etc.) on the Mac. Do folks know if this might mean there is some hope for a Linux install that can be rigged to run Arc? Thanks so much, PS ESRI's (producer of Arc) site is supremely unhelpful as they aren't interested in much other than server support for Linux and a basic reader function. PPS Red Hat's site didn't give me much to go on.

Nov. 18, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Linux Choix?

by Michael Long

> Have you looked at gnucash as a QuickBooks replacement? I just wish > I was anal enough to bother putting all my home/personal expenses into > GnuCash, but I'm balking at re-typing my credit card and bank > statements into it. > > This is the Quicken advantage, they can talk to alot of banks and > credit card companies to import data easily. > > Actually, GnuCash can do this too, if your bank/CCC supports exporting > in one of the standard financial formats. Now if I could just get my > bank to *email* me an encrypted statement each month, I'd be happy... > Wow...GnuCash has come along way since I first looked at it. The open source business packages are quickly catching up and passing the M$ counterparts. Nice!

Nov. 17, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Linux Choix?

by Eric Martin

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Stephen Daukas wrote: > As far as I know, ESRI have Linux versions of the > <http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/#>ArcSDE, ArcIMS, ArcObjects > (i.e. server products) but not for ArcMap, ArcCatalog or ArcInfo. > ESRI product documentation only talks about SUSE, Red Hat (intel), > and Solaris... > > Steve Ah, there's a GIS version of Knoppix that has a bunch of GIS stuff, I don't know if it will work / you can use it rather than ARC... ~eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHPx5CaiVxdKlBO58RAsXUAJ9ATUUG/Bj2+z4vuWM47qcqNyWZGACcCbYp knBtJqGjloR7s0Lbrnw1sF8= =snVz -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Nov. 17, 2007