- WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

Re: [Wlug] Ubuntu == FAIL WHALE (was: Release party Ubuntu 9.04)

by E Johnson

Interesting to hear other complaints about Xorg in Ubu. Using Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy, I am having trouble with a just-purchased Asus mobo and processor* in my newly assembled desktop rig. It will run my monitor in only VGA mode, when the previous computer with its older mobo & processor (running Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy) ran it in DVI mode. Using the DVI cable (or another DVI cable) it does not see this monitor at all. We even RMA'd the mobo and got a replacement, but it was not the output from the mobo that was the problem. * ASUS M3A78-CM; AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600 Brisbane 2.9GHz Hard to find how or where to set up this monitor to run right. I have to reset the monitor specs every time I reboot, or the refresh rate is unbearable and full of artifacts. There's a wizard-like prog that will reset the monitor specs, but not-quite well enough, and the settings don't seem to keep, after a reboot. Not sure this is exactly a Ubuntu problem, but one would think it could use the mobo to its advertised potential --it has a DVI output-capable chip. Previous to this build, the monitor ran fine as DVI in Debian Etch and Lenny. The older computer ran Debian Lenny very nicely after upgrading from Etch, which ran for a couple of years very successfully. It just didn't have enough memory & so forth, so we built this new one. About the no-DVI complaint, an ASUS telephone tech said to update the BIOS and/or to go get whatever new drivers may or may not be available --no sure answer. He's just reading out of a manual. But this mobo (with factory BIOS) recognized a different flatscreen DVI monitor just fine --it just wasn't my monitor. The Xorg strangeness, plus various drivers and the modules that aren't always included in the new releases or updates, make these headaches. Also when I reboot, I have to reinitialize the network. That's a mildly annoying thing. This seems to be new, not sure it's the recent Ubuntu updates, or what. Wish I could say I have several friends who have converted to Ubuntu, but I have only one. He is so happy with his old Ubuntu (previous to Gutsy), that he'll have to do a clean install of a newer version at some point soon. But I think I will recommend Lenny for him, too. The good news is that since Dec. 08, my teenage child unit is running Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy on the same mobo with a similar processor, using a newer monitor, and she's very happy. This kid was raised with various flavors of Linux til about 18 months ago, when she inherited a monster dual Xeon thing that ran Win XP and blue LEDs for about a year. When that fried, she was pleased to find that Ubuntu 8.04 on the new rig could do whatever she needed (including iPod), and we were pleased not to have to tweak it much. Ubu updates have not broken anything in her rig. Ubuntu issues too many kernel updates, that don't always include what they should have, or that break things, such as the audio. When audio breaks, that creates another whole set of headaches. We somewhat have the fixit procedure for that down by now, but why the deveolpers don't is a mystery. Maybe it's fixed in Intrepid, who knows. Running Hardy here, since it's supposedly the long-term support version. Debian just seems to be much more sensible about when to call a release "done" or "stable" and to issue it as a complete and ready-to-go OS. Now hoping that a clean install of Lenny (stable) will cure the monitor woes. The Ubu release party might be fun if we lived 2 blocks away, maybe. Peas & Lite to all, Liz J formerly KC3XX

April 15, 2009

Re: [Wlug] Ubuntu == FAIL WHALE (was: Release party Ubuntu 9.04)

by Andy Stewart

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 HI all, Up to and including Kubuntu 7.x, I thought it was great stuff! Ever since I upgraded to Kubuntu 8.x, I've had a few nagging issues which defy resolution. I tried the 9.x alpha CD and the issues persist. I've seriously considered downgrading my laptop to Kubuntu 7.x. I think the problems are mostly related to the moving of the configuration information out of the Xorg.conf file into some unknown place. My issues are mostly X server related (I think). Virtual consoles don't work once the X window system starts, and the external VGA port doesn't seem to work anymore. I previously had it setup in Xinerama mode. I have heard other folks make the same observation that 8.x was not a great release series for them. I certainly hope that 9.x hits the nail on the head. Just one man's experience..... Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group (http://www.wlug.org) Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group (http://linux.meetup.com/393) Amateur Radio: KB1OIQ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJ5V+qHl0iXDssISsRAqPcAJ4tvnX1GSDC3p/Ex/UPkPL7iDz3gQCfV1Q5 2r2iEzwBg1xARhIxDlvf7eg= =1E4I -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

April 15, 2009

Git manual available (expires in days...

by Doug Mildram

recently wlug had a meeting describing the version control system called Git. Linus fast tracked it for the kernel code, and it has become very popular. http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/FrontPage for a limited time only here is an oreilly freebie download ftp://ftp.oreilly.com/outgoing/Version_Control_with_Git.zip

April 15, 2009

Re: [Wlug] Ubuntu == FAIL WHALE (was: Release party Ubuntu 9.04)

by Clint Moyer

I've had very few problems. I wouldn't just google for an answer though. The official Ubuntu forums are quite helpful and accurate. A random post revealed by a generic search may not be as fruitful. Besides, if someone has a problem copying a CD, I'd first suspect PEBCAK... ---- Nick Nassar <nassar(a)alum.wpi.edu> wrote: ============= Does anyone else consistently have bad experiences with Ubuntu? I've unintentionally made a handful of people really hate Linux by suggesting they try Ubuntu. The smooth install makes you think it's working well. You probably don't notice the problems for a while and you think "WOW non-geeks could actually use this." Then you try to burn an audio CD or use bluetooth or whatever and it doesn't work. You search on Google for a fix and you think "WOW The community support is awesome." Then you do what the community suggests and it not only doesn't fix it but it makes things worse. So, you reinstall. The six month release cycle just doesn't leave enough time to work out all of the quirks and update all of the community docs before the next version comes out. When people just want to copy an audio CD or perform some other basic task and it doesn't work, they (rightfully) get pissed. *sigh* James Gray <jamespgray(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi All, there will be a release party for the newest version of > Ubuntu on the 23rd in Boston. > > There will be plenty of food and fellow Ubuntu enthusiasts. There > will probably be desktop CDs as well. > > Date: Thursday April 23rd 2009 > Time: 7PM to 10PM > Where: Globe Bar & Grill, Boston > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

April 14, 2009

Re: [Wlug] Ubuntu == FAIL WHALE (was: Release party Ubuntu 9.04)

by Sebastian Courtney

Sorry to disagree with you Nick, but aside from some quirks in alpha releases, I've never had any major problems that were not easily fixable in Ubuntu. :/ Bluetooth has always seamlessly worked for me, as well as burning CDs. On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Nick Nassar <nassar(a)alum.wpi.edu> wrote: > Does anyone else consistently have bad experiences with Ubuntu? > > I've unintentionally made a handful of people really hate Linux by > suggesting they try Ubuntu. > > The smooth install makes you think it's working well. You probably > don't notice the problems for a while and you think "WOW non-geeks could > actually use this." Then you try to burn an audio CD or use bluetooth or > whatever and it doesn't work. You search on Google for a fix and you > think "WOW The community support is awesome." Then you do what the > community suggests and it not only doesn't fix it but it makes things > worse. So, you reinstall. The six month release cycle just doesn't > leave enough time to work out all of the quirks and update all of the > community docs before the next version comes out. > > When people just want to copy an audio CD or perform some other basic > task and it doesn't work, they (rightfully) get pissed. > > *sigh* > > > James Gray <jamespgray(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi All, there will be a release party for the newest version of > > Ubuntu on the 23rd in Boston. > > > > There will be plenty of food and fellow Ubuntu enthusiasts. There > > will probably be desktop CDs as well. > > > > Date: Thursday April 23rd 2009 > > Time: 7PM to 10PM > > Where: Globe Bar & Grill, Boston > > _______________________________________________ > > Wlug mailing list > > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

April 14, 2009

Re: [Wlug] Ubuntu == FAIL WHALE (was: Release party Ubuntu 9.04)

by Nick Nassar

Does anyone else consistently have bad experiences with Ubuntu? I've unintentionally made a handful of people really hate Linux by suggesting they try Ubuntu. The smooth install makes you think it's working well. You probably don't notice the problems for a while and you think "WOW non-geeks could actually use this." Then you try to burn an audio CD or use bluetooth or whatever and it doesn't work. You search on Google for a fix and you think "WOW The community support is awesome." Then you do what the community suggests and it not only doesn't fix it but it makes things worse. So, you reinstall. The six month release cycle just doesn't leave enough time to work out all of the quirks and update all of the community docs before the next version comes out. When people just want to copy an audio CD or perform some other basic task and it doesn't work, they (rightfully) get pissed. *sigh* James Gray <jamespgray(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi All, there will be a release party for the newest version of > Ubuntu on the 23rd in Boston. > > There will be plenty of food and fellow Ubuntu enthusiasts. There > will probably be desktop CDs as well. > > Date: Thursday April 23rd 2009 > Time: 7PM to 10PM > Where: Globe Bar & Grill, Boston > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

April 14, 2009

Re: [Wlug] Release party Ubuntu 9.04

by Mike Leo

a little more info https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/Events/ReleaseParties/9.04-Jaunty… ________________________________ From: James Gray <jamespgray(a)gmail.com> To: Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 12:57:47 PM Subject: [Wlug] Release party Ubuntu 9.04 Hi All, there will be a release party for the newest version of Ubuntu on the 23rd in Boston. There will be plenty of food and fellow Ubuntu enthusiasts. There will probably be desktop CDs as well. Date: Thursday April 23rd 2009 Time: 7PM to 10PM Where: Globe Bar & Grill, Boston _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

April 14, 2009

Follow Up: Release party Ubuntu 9.04

by James Gray

Oops, forgot the link --- For more information visit: http://www.ubuntu-massachusetts.com/events/2/ On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 1:57 PM, James Gray <jamespgray(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi All, there will be a release party for the newest version of > Ubuntu on the 23rd in Boston. > > There will be plenty of food and fellow Ubuntu enthusiasts. There > will probably be desktop CDs as well. > > Date: Thursday April 23rd 2009 > Time: 7PM to 10PM > Where: Globe Bar & Grill, Boston >

April 14, 2009

Release party Ubuntu 9.04

by James Gray

Hi All, there will be a release party for the newest version of Ubuntu on the 23rd in Boston. There will be plenty of food and fellow Ubuntu enthusiasts. There will probably be desktop CDs as well. Date: Thursday April 23rd 2009 Time: 7PM to 10PM Where: Globe Bar & Grill, Boston

April 14, 2009

Re: [Wlug] PGP Key Signing at next WLUG Meeting

by Theo Van Dinter

It's really up to the person doing the signing. :) In general, you want to have as many strong forms of ID as possible. passport > driver's license > student id, etc. Multiple IDs are good, I don't think I've had need to go beyond 3 before. Some useful links: http://linuxreviews.org/howtos/gnupg/signingparty/ http://pgp-tools.alioth.debian.org/ On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 5:46 PM, William Smith <smithadmin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Andy, > > That sounds like something I'd like to do again-- it's been a while > since I made a Key Signing party! :D > > What are acceptable forms of ID for most? (I don't have a passport...) > > ...Bill > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Andy Stewart <andystewart(a)comcast.net> wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> Our next WLUG meeting is scheduled for Wednesday, April 22nd, and we >> will be having a PGP Key Signing party, which will be orchestrated by >> Chuck Anderson and Eric Martin. I'll update the website shortly. >> >> Also, at the June meeting, we will have a guest speaker talk to us about >> the Open Street Map effort. >> >> That's all for now...see ya later, >> >> Andy >> >> - -- >> Andy Stewart, Founder >> Worcester Linux Users' Group (http://www.wlug.org) >> Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group (http://linux.meetup.com/393) >> Amateur Radio: KB1OIQ >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) >> Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org >> >> iD8DBQFJ4MxIHl0iXDssISsRAm3TAJoD4jpyPt2LYwJlspHk+YKTDHBCNACfTB/+ >> JLkBAfr3Qh0aPXpRhnohVfE= >> =jhoc >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> _______________________________________________ >> Wlug mailing list >> Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org >> http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >> > > > > -- > Bill Smith > Fall River, MA > Charter Member of LOPSA > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

April 11, 2009

Re: [Wlug] PGP Key Signing at next WLUG Meeting

by William Smith

Andy, That sounds like something I'd like to do again-- it's been a while since I made a Key Signing party! :D What are acceptable forms of ID for most? (I don't have a passport...) ...Bill On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Andy Stewart <andystewart(a)comcast.net> wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > Hi all, > > Our next WLUG meeting is scheduled for Wednesday, April 22nd, and we > will be having a PGP Key Signing party, which will be orchestrated by > Chuck Anderson and Eric Martin. I'll update the website shortly. > > Also, at the June meeting, we will have a guest speaker talk to us about > the Open Street Map effort. > > That's all for now...see ya later, > > Andy > > - -- > Andy Stewart, Founder > Worcester Linux Users' Group (http://www.wlug.org) > Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group (http://linux.meetup.com/393) > Amateur Radio: KB1OIQ > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFJ4MxIHl0iXDssISsRAm3TAJoD4jpyPt2LYwJlspHk+YKTDHBCNACfTB/+ > JLkBAfr3Qh0aPXpRhnohVfE= > =jhoc > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > -- Bill Smith Fall River, MA Charter Member of LOPSA

April 11, 2009

PGP Key Signing at next WLUG Meeting

by Andy Stewart

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, Our next WLUG meeting is scheduled for Wednesday, April 22nd, and we will be having a PGP Key Signing party, which will be orchestrated by Chuck Anderson and Eric Martin. I'll update the website shortly. Also, at the June meeting, we will have a guest speaker talk to us about the Open Street Map effort. That's all for now...see ya later, Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group (http://www.wlug.org) Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group (http://linux.meetup.com/393) Amateur Radio: KB1OIQ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJ4MxIHl0iXDssISsRAm3TAJoD4jpyPt2LYwJlspHk+YKTDHBCNACfTB/+ JLkBAfr3Qh0aPXpRhnohVfE= =jhoc -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

April 11, 2009

Re: [Wlug] Linux from Scratch - anyone use this?

by Chuck Anderson

Here's another take on building your own distro using packages from Fedora and Fedora-compatible repositories: http://www.pcplus.co.uk/node/3020

April 11, 2009

Re: [Wlug] WPI Exchange Help

by Eric Stein

At one point, the UNIX/Exchange battle that goes on between the two servers was so screwed up that all my email was showing up as literal forwards from me to me in my UNIX inbox. I raged at the helpdesk until they accepted that I did not now, nor did I ever want, to even have an exchange account. It took some fighting but I got them to delete my exchange account completely, and my UNIX mail has worked fine ever since. Eric Kurt Snieckus wrote: > On the WPI mail system mail first goes to the unix mail servers, and > then gets forwarded to exchange. If you want you can keep the mail > from being forwarded to exchange by changing the forwarding settings > here: http://www.wpi.edu/Academics/CCC/Services/mailforward.html I > forget exactly what I did, but it didn't work quite right, beacuse > mail sent from other user's exchange accounts went to the exchange > account instead of staying in the unix account. But if you e-mail the > Helpdesk they can fix it for you. This then lets you use imap.wpi.edu > <http://imap.wpi.edu>, pop.wpi.edu <http://pop.wpi.edu>, and > webmail.wpi.edu/squirrelmail <http://webmail.wpi.edu/squirrelmail> > (And i think you can just login to ccc.wpi.edu <http://ccc.wpi.edu> > and type pine and read your mail as well) > If you'd like in-person help the Free Software Association tries to > have meetings at 6pm on Tuesdays in the lounge on the 3rd floor of > Fuller. E-mail owner-fsa(a)wpi.edu <mailto:owner-fsa@wpi.edu> to get > meeting announcements. > -Kurt > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 11:39 PM, <tedshipper(a)gmail.com > <mailto:tedshipper@gmail.com>> wrote: > > So I'm new to the Linux community and I could use a little help. > I'm trying to setup exchange to work through Evolution Mail on > Ubuntu 8.10. I can't seem to set it up correctly. I feel like i > have all the necessary info like the OWA URL, which I think is > https://exchange.wpi.edu/owa/ . Please advise as to whether I need > to specify the DOMAIN\User which doesn't work or if there is a > better client for setting up exchange at WPI. > Thanks, > > Ship > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org <mailto:Wlug@mail.wlug.org> > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

April 8, 2009

Re: [Wlug] WPI Exchange Help

by Kurt Snieckus

On the WPI mail system mail first goes to the unix mail servers, and then gets forwarded to exchange. If you want you can keep the mail from being forwarded to exchange by changing the forwarding settings here: http://www.wpi.edu/Academics/CCC/Services/mailforward.html I forget exactly what I did, but it didn't work quite right, beacuse mail sent from other user's exchange accounts went to the exchange account instead of staying in the unix account. But if you e-mail the Helpdesk they can fix it for you. This then lets you use imap.wpi.edu, pop.wpi.edu, and webmail.wpi.edu/squirrelmail (And i think you can just login to ccc.wpi.eduand type pine and read your mail as well) If you'd like in-person help the Free Software Association tries to have meetings at 6pm on Tuesdays in the lounge on the 3rd floor of Fuller. E-mail owner-fsa(a)wpi.edu to get meeting announcements. -Kurt On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 11:39 PM, <tedshipper(a)gmail.com> wrote: > So I'm new to the Linux community and I could use a little help. I'm trying > to setup exchange to work through Evolution Mail on Ubuntu 8.10. I can't > seem to set it up correctly. I feel like i have all the necessary info like > the OWA URL, which I think is https://exchange.wpi.edu/owa/ . Please > advise as to whether I need to specify the DOMAIN\User which doesn't work or > if there is a better client for setting up exchange at WPI. > Thanks, > > Ship > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

April 8, 2009

WPI Exchange Help

by tedshipper＠gmail.com

So I'm new to the Linux community and I could use a little help. I'm trying to setup exchange to work through Evolution Mail on Ubuntu 8.10. I can't seem to set it up correctly. I feel like i have all the necessary info like the OWA URL, which I think is https://exchange.wpi.edu/owa/ . Please advise as to whether I need to specify the DOMAIN\User which doesn't work or if there is a better client for setting up exchange at WPI. Thanks, Ship

April 8, 2009

Re: [Wlug] Linux from Scratch - anyone use this?

by Keith Wright

> From: "John Stoffel" <john(a)stoffel.org> > > >> From: "John Stoffel" <john(a)stoffel.org> > >> > >> An urge to 'Let's tinker' is both a good and bad > >> thing for a SysAdmin to have. > > Keith> Did he say he was a studly-cap SysAdmin? > > Did I? And ok, I'll just spell it out. Systems Administrator. > Happy now? (NB: the word "he" when I wrote it refered to Alexander. The word "I" when John writes it refers to John. Whether that is a cause or effect of confusion, I am not sure.) "Call no man happy until he is dead." -- Aeschylus, Herodotus, or Solon? With due regard to that perspective, I am happy now, and happy before. I now am quite sure that John is, and Alexander is not, a SysAdmin. That was my guess. > Keith> I missed that. I took him to be talking about > Keith> his own computer. If there aren't too many > Keith> users paying the bills, then the Linux Way is > Keith> to tinker. > > Sure, absolutely. No arguement there. But if you > are doing SysAdmin type work, then IMNSHO it's > pointless to obsess over things like this. No argument there, and none here. My last message was intended to point out that your different context makes the truth you chose to express less relevant to Alexander's obsession. -- Keith PS: I just thought of "Damn Small Linux". I know nothing about it, but it might be a good phrase for the tight-code-obsessed to Google.

April 7, 2009

Re: [Wlug] Linux from Scratch - anyone use this?

by John Stoffel

>> From: "John Stoffel" <john(a)stoffel.org> >> >> An urge to 'Let's tinker' is both a good and bad >> thing for a SysAdmin to have. Keith> Did he say he was a studly-cap SysAdmin? Did I? And ok, I'll just spell it out. Systems Administrator. Happy now? Keith> I missed that. I took him to be talking about his own Keith> computer. If there aren't too many users paying the bills, Keith> then the Linux Way is to tinker. Sure, absolutely. No arguement there. But if you are doing SysAdmin type work, then IMNSHO it's pointless to obsess over things like this. >> ... I don't think you're going to find one >> that makes you happy. Keith> Maybe not one distribution, but maybe one or another package Keith> manager will look good. Learn to build your own package. I am Keith> not too familiar with all of them, but RPM builds packages from Keith> pristine source and then you can install from the package Keith> without the source, but you can always get the source version. I've done some work with RPM and .deb packages and both have learning curves. Not terrible, but curves none-the-less. And it's a good learning experience because it shows you all the details you do need to look out for when packaging something to be easily installed, upgraded and de-installed. 90% of all code is bounds and error checking. :] Which is boring and not fun to write and test, but vital for a successful package. Keith> The package is at its core a way to keep track of what you did Keith> to build it. You start Linux from Scratch, but when it comes Keith> time to put it on new hardware, you don't start over from Keith> scratch. >> The urge to cleanup is nice, but counter productive >> unless your on an embedded device which can't handle >> all the excess libraries. Keith> I will refrain from waxing on making and cleaning of messes, Keith> bloat, and the cause of all our grievances. You mistake my arguements. I'm not arguing that bloat is good, I'm arguing that trying to compulsively shrink a system might not be a good use of time/resources. But it depends. Keith> The more package builders had Alexander's attitude the fewer Keith> SysAdmins would have Alexander's problem. Well, it's also GUI toolkits, GUI designers who can't/won't pack information into a smaller display area, etc. I don't have the time to writeup a diatrabe here, so I'll just drop it now. :] John

April 7, 2009

Re: [Wlug] Linux from Scratch - anyone use this?

by John Stoffel

>> I've been using 'apt-get --purge autoremove' to cleanup stuff like >> that. Pretty darn simple. Alexander> Perhaps I've a compulsion ... I'm always taking that the Alexander> next step ... "lets see what else we can remove" .... I understand the urge, I've certainly had it myself at times. Not as much now with disk space cheap and my time more expensive (and wanting to spend it on other projects/time-sinks). Since I am a prof sysadmin, that colors my outlook here. :] >> Why? Why do you care? Are you short on disk space? Or just >> compulsivley anal about knowing why a library is on there? *grin* Alexander> Again - compulsive ? perhaps instead of wlug I should see a Alexander> shrink... Nah, just go and have fun and don't let me stop you. You might want to look at Slackware, or maybe one of the other uber-lite distros out there. The big way to get rid of stuff is to get rid of X and all the GUI stuff. Then you'll see real savings. John

April 7, 2009

Re: [Wlug] gl over ssh

by Mike Frysinger

On Monday 06 April 2009 12:24:03 John Stoffel wrote: > Have you tried using the 'nxserver' instead? I've been playing with > it a bit, and it's not blindingly fast at points, but it does seem to > support better OpenGL over the WAN/LAN than X does at time, esp VNC. problem with nxserver is there isnt an open source replacement for every component in the stack. i dont say this because i hate closed source, but rather it makes working across platforms a real pita (OS / architectures). i ended up switching to ssvnc as it nicely integrates ssh and/or ssl into the process. install ssvnc on your client and x11vnc on your server and you're golden. the performance is the best ive seen so far, but that is compared to X forwarding and other VNC clients ... not NX. -mike

April 6, 2009

Re: [Wlug] Linux from Scratch - anyone use this?

by Keith Wright

> From: "John Stoffel" <john(a)stoffel.org> > > An urge to 'Let's tinker' is both a good and bad > thing for a SysAdmin to have. Did he say he was a studly-cap SysAdmin? I missed that. I took him to be talking about his own computer. If there aren't too many users paying the bills, then the Linux Way is to tinker. > ... I don't think you're going to find one > that makes you happy. Maybe not one distribution, but maybe one or another package manager will look good. Learn to build your own package. I am not too familiar with all of them, but RPM builds packages from pristine source and then you can install from the package without the source, but you can always get the source version. The package is at its core a way to keep track of what you did to build it. You start Linux from Scratch, but when it comes time to put it on new hardware, you don't start over from scratch. > The urge to cleanup is nice, but counter productive > unless your on an embedded device which can't handle > all the excess libraries. I will refrain from waxing on making and cleaning of messes, bloat, and the cause of all our grievances. The more package builders had Alexander's attitude the fewer SysAdmins would have Alexander's problem. > It's not an easy battle to solve. < Insert here a classical quote. Don Quixote? Henry IV? Sun Tze?> -- Keith

April 6, 2009

Re: [Wlug] Linux from Scratch - anyone use this?

by James Gray

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Alexander Haley <ahaley(a)alum.wpi.edu> wrote: >> Did he say he was a studly-cap SysAdmin? > no - just my own machine I can afford to muck about with > > Thanks for everyone input ... Hey Alex, you've got the skills, time and determination to maintain your system manually. I for one can't find a problem with that. I'd like to try LFS at some point when I have a bit more of the 3 traits I mention above. :-)

April 6, 2009

Re: [Wlug] Linux from Scratch - anyone use this?

by Alexander Haley

> Did he say he was a studly-cap SysAdmin? no - just my own machine I can afford to muck about with Thanks for everyone input ...

April 6, 2009

Re: [Wlug] Linux from Scratch - anyone use this?

by Alexander Haley

> I've been using 'apt-get --purge autoremove' to cleanup stuff like > that. Pretty darn simple. Perhaps I've a compulsion ... I'm always taking that the next step ... "lets see what else we can remove" .... > Why? Why do you care? Are you short on disk space? Or just > compulsivley anal about knowing why a library is on there? *grin* Again - compulsive ? perhaps instead of wlug I should see a shrink... (:

April 6, 2009

Re: [Wlug] gl over ssh

by John Stoffel

Have you tried using the 'nxserver' instead? I've been playing with it a bit, and it's not blindingly fast at points, but it does seem to support better OpenGL over the WAN/LAN than X does at time, esp VNC. You might try turning off authentication completely as a test and see if you can make it work then. Try 'xhost +' and see if that works for you. John

April 6, 2009