- WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

ROS Robot Operating System

by Kevin Harrington NR

A much easier to use alternative to ROS would be our platform, the DyIO and the Bowler Communication Sysrtem. We use a platform independent communication platform to turn any computer into a robot. WPI is now using these controllers as the basis for all the intro and advanced robotics engineering classes. You would write code in Java (Standard Edition), execute the application of any OS, and communicate to the DyIO for all your I/O needs. We have a ton or tutorials and HowTo's for accessing the different capabilities of the DyIO. If there was some interest i could run a seminar about making robots with Linux... -- Kevin Harrington Neuron Robotics President and Founder

Aug. 24, 2011

Prin Software Embedded Engineer - Linux perm/direct

by John Spencer

Our client has a need for a Prin Software Embedded Linux Engineer. Must be LOCAL (position is northwest suburb of Boston) and must have strong background working with embedded Linux. Must be US Citizen or Permanent Resident Technical Skills include: - Extensive experience designing and implementing embedded software systems from the ground up. - Strong experience with Linux - kernel, builds, patches, etc. -Expert knowledge of C required. - Ideally this candidate will have experience to lead/implement code utilizing a custom kernel - Must have knowledge of Linux for embedded systems working with bootloaders, filesystems on a flash memory system, build a root file systems, coordinate and distribute code onto multiple microcontrollers, etc. - Expert at integrating software with electronics, including writing device drivers and debugging hardware/software, using lab equipment Please reply with a copy of your resume and any questions. Your resume will never be sent anywhere without your prior approval. Regards, John Spencer Connected Systems Partners Connecting Top Talent with Top Companies 978-455-5550 x208 978-621-9743 cell jspencer(a)connectedsp.com www.connectedsp.com GET CONNECTED! All information in this email is considered confidential and intended for the view and use of the recipient(s) only.

Aug. 16, 2011

ROS Robot Operating System

by Ken Jones

I have designed and built a robotic 1/10 scale radio control car (See link below). I added an Arduino Nano to a HPI Sprint. I have been using Windows based Arduino C code. This package is too limiting. I am considering getting into http://www.ros.org/wiki which is LINUX based. "ROS (Robot Operating System) provides libraries and tools to help software developers create robot applications. It provides hardware abstraction, device drivers, libraries, visualizers, message-passing, package management, and more." Are any of you WLUG members ROS-ites? My Linux skills have degraded due to lack of use (and old age). Here's a pointer to a youtube showing my robocar being a robot and what it is built of. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-rgkt8WDXQ Ken Jones Fitchburg

Aug. 16, 2011

Re: [Wlug] WLUG BBQ -- Nice to see you all!

by E Johnson

Thanks for coming, & for making the WLUG BBQ a success! We got lucky on the weather... one T-storm & then clear! Everyone was wonderful! & Thanks for helping with the aftermath. What a great group! We enjoyed it. Best regards to all, Liz J

Aug. 11, 2011

Re: [Wlug] WLUG BBQ - UPDATE 5:35 pm

by Stephen Daukas

Was planning on attending, but may not be able to... Am on the road... What is the street address just in case... Steve On Wednesday, August 10, 2011, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > Agreed! > > On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 05:37:11PM -0400, Gregory Avedissian wrote: >> According to the radar, the storm will only last about 20 minutes, and then >> we'll have clear skies. Food is here, three of us are here so far. >> >> Party is ON. >> >> See you soon. > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

Aug. 10, 2011

Re: [Wlug] WLUG BBQ - UPDATE 6:00 pm (almost)

by Gregory Avedissian

Rain stopped. Sun is peeking through the clouds.

Aug. 10, 2011

Re: [Wlug] WLUG BBQ - UPDATE 5:35 pm

by Chuck Anderson

Agreed! On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 05:37:11PM -0400, Gregory Avedissian wrote: > According to the radar, the storm will only last about 20 minutes, and then > we'll have clear skies. Food is here, three of us are here so far. > > Party is ON. > > See you soon.

Aug. 10, 2011

Re: [Wlug] WLUG BBQ - UPDATE 5:35 pm

by Gregory Avedissian

According to the radar, the storm will only last about 20 minutes, and then we'll have clear skies. Food is here, three of us are here so far. Party is ON. See you soon.

Aug. 10, 2011

WLUG BBQ

by E Johnson

Hi everyone, The annual WLUG BBQ is tomorrow! Time & location & contact info has already been posted on the list. We have salad, cheese & crackers, plus a few extra goodies, & the condiments. Dogs, burgers & buns are allegedly arriving. So we expect the event to be enjoyable. A few news items & reminders: 1. We have been fairly bug-free this year, which still seems to be the case. But it is raining now, so, we'll know when we now. 2. Our Driveway is for deliveries (tables/chairs, coolers, etc., but not for Event Parking. There should be adequate parking on Hudson St. If you have a special Parking need, please let me know: iris.gates(a)gmail.com 3. We do not have an icemaker. Whoever is bringing the non-BYOB drinks (the soda), please bring cooler plus ice. If you BYOB, please provide your own cooling technique (cooler & ice) 4. My apt. is on the 3rd floor, so note that the Facilities are a few steps up. 5. Someone has promised to bring a table. That would be greatly useful. Perhaps a second table, even a small card table, would be helpful. 6. BYO lawn chair. 7. Wireless will be on & accessible, but I have not tested it in backyard. 8. If it rains or hails or otherwise becomes inclement, we can adjourn to my apt. Tall people may need a hardhat, but we can cram in. 9. Arts Worcester event is going on in Elm Park lately; there are a few things to see, should anyone wish to take a short walk. Elm Park is only a few steps away. 10. Sign on light pole out front will say WLUG. A Penguin is allegedly arriving, but no clue where he will be located. ## Who is bringing plates, cups, forks & spoons? Could you please check in here before Noon Wed. (my final shopping trip)? TY. See you tomorrow! Liz J

Aug. 9, 2011

Re: [Wlug] Solved: X apps no longer work with sudo after upgrade to Squeeze

by Jason Couture

Glad to be of assistance! This e-mail transmission, including any attachments, is intended only for the named recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this transmission in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and permanently delete this transmission, including any attachments. On Aug 9, 2011 3:52 PM, "Theodore Ruegsegger" <gruntly(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Jason Couture wrote: >> Have you tried using gksudo? > > Aha! That's the answer. Works fine, no reason to alter /etc/sudoers. > > Thanks very much! > > Ted Ruegsegger > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Aug. 9, 2011

Re: [Wlug] Solved: X apps no longer work with sudo after upgrade to Squeeze

by Theodore Ruegsegger

Jason Couture wrote: > Have you tried using gksudo? Aha! That's the answer. Works fine, no reason to alter /etc/sudoers. Thanks very much! Ted Ruegsegger

Aug. 9, 2011

Re: [Wlug] Solved: X apps no longer work with sudo after upgrade to Squeeze

by Jason Couture

Have you tried using gksudo? This e-mail transmission, including any attachments, is intended only for the named recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this transmission in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and permanently delete this transmission, including any attachments. On Aug 9, 2011 2:12 PM, "Theodore Ruegsegger" <gruntly(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Gregory Avedissian wrote: >> I can't set you straight, and I don't know the security implications, but >> this works: >> >> ssh -X user@remote-host >> su-to-root -X -c <command> >> >> You might be asked for the root password, the user password or neither, >> depending on your setup. > > Hmm...hadn't heard of su-to-root before; thanks. Googling suggests > it's a shell script, though it doesn't seem to be available on my > Ubuntu karmic or the repositories. I did find something called sux > which is an X-preserving wrapper around su. Alas, since I've disabled > the root password, I can't use that. > > I'm a little surprised sudo doesn't have a way of doing this without > security risks, since the maintainers are obviously aware of the issue > and there's enough information in the environment to deduce the > correct .Xauthority. Perhaps in the next release. > > Thanks for the reply, > Ted > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Aug. 9, 2011

Re: [Wlug] Solved: X apps no longer work with sudo after upgrade to Squeeze

by Theodore Ruegsegger

Gregory Avedissian wrote: > I can't set you straight, and I don't know the security implications, but > this works: > > ssh -X user@remote-host > su-to-root -X -c <command> > > You might be asked for the root password, the user password or neither, > depending on your setup. Hmm...hadn't heard of su-to-root before; thanks. Googling suggests it's a shell script, though it doesn't seem to be available on my Ubuntu karmic or the repositories. I did find something called sux which is an X-preserving wrapper around su. Alas, since I've disabled the root password, I can't use that. I'm a little surprised sudo doesn't have a way of doing this without security risks, since the maintainers are obviously aware of the issue and there's enough information in the environment to deduce the correct .Xauthority. Perhaps in the next release. Thanks for the reply, Ted

Aug. 9, 2011

Re: [Wlug] Solved: X apps no longer work with sudo after upgrade to Squeeze

by Gregory Avedissian

I can't set you straight, and I don't know the security implications, but this works: ssh -X user@remote-host su-to-root -X -c <command> You might be asked for the root password, the user password or neither, depending on your setup. Greg On 08/06/2011 07:40 PM, Theodore Ruegsegger wrote: > Hmm...my diagnosis was flawed. I had written: >> It looks like the newer version of sudo no longer preserves $HOME by >> default... > > It looks like the older version didn't preserve $HOME either; instead > it somehow preserved the .Xauthority information itself. As the > manpage implies, forcing it to preserve $HOME could have some security > implications. If someone knows of a more straightforward solution, > please share! > > Ted Ruegsegger > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

Aug. 9, 2011

Re: [Wlug] Reminder: WLUG BBQ: Wednesday, August 10, 6pm

by Chuck Anderson

I have the giant Tux, originally made by Doug Waud. In-Reply-To: <CABmZTj1nKqQebf74eQjoLPGC5ZctSOkoAco1YrvzSJTNi-miZw(a)mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Aug 06, 2011 at 08:01:45PM -0400, E Johnson wrote: > All of the above is correct, except I do not have a Tux Penguin. > A sign affixed to the light pole out front will say 'WLUG' & I will attempt > to draw an image of a Tux-like penguin on it. > > Everyone is welcome. See you then. > Liz J > > On 5 August 2011 22:57, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > > > Hi gang, > > > > The WLUG BBQ is coming up next week, Wednesday, August 10, starting at > > 6pm. Thanks to those who volunteered to bring items, and thanks to > > our hostess Liz Johnson. We'll have hot dogs, burgers, bratwurst, all > > the fixings, some chips/snacks, salad and soda. The grill will be > > fired up if anyone has something else they'd like to grill, and > > desserts would be welcome as well. There will be a cooler or two and > > some ice for BYOB. People should bring a lawn chair for themselves if > > they wish to sit down. Based on past BBQ's, I'm expecting about 15-20 > > people, perhaps more. > > > > The address: > > > > 34 Hudson St, Worcester, MA (It is a green house, one house south of > > Elm St. Elm St runs east/west along Elm Park and Hudson St is one > > block east of Park Ave.) > > > > Look for a "WLUG" sign on the city light pole, as well as a big Tux > > Penguin. If you get lost you can call Liz at 508-471-4407. > > > > Hope to see you there! > > Chuck > > WLUG President

Aug. 7, 2011

Re: [Wlug] Reminder: WLUG BBQ: Wednesday, August 10, 6pm

by E Johnson

All of the above is correct, except I do not have a Tux Penguin. A sign affixed to the light pole out front will say 'WLUG' & I will attempt to draw an image of a Tux-like penguin on it. Everyone is welcome. See you then. Liz J On 5 August 2011 22:57, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > Hi gang, > > The WLUG BBQ is coming up next week, Wednesday, August 10, starting at > 6pm. Thanks to those who volunteered to bring items, and thanks to > our hostess Liz Johnson. We'll have hot dogs, burgers, bratwurst, all > the fixings, some chips/snacks, salad and soda. The grill will be > fired up if anyone has something else they'd like to grill, and > desserts would be welcome as well. There will be a cooler or two and > some ice for BYOB. People should bring a lawn chair for themselves if > they wish to sit down. Based on past BBQ's, I'm expecting about 15-20 > people, perhaps more. > > The address: > > 34 Hudson St, Worcester, MA (It is a green house, one house south of > Elm St. Elm St runs east/west along Elm Park and Hudson St is one > block east of Park Ave.) > > Look for a "WLUG" sign on the city light pole, as well as a big Tux > Penguin. If you get lost you can call Liz at 508-471-4407. > > Hope to see you there! > Chuck > WLUG President > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

Aug. 7, 2011

Re: [Wlug] Solved: X apps no longer work with sudo after upgrade to Squeeze

by Theodore Ruegsegger

Hmm...my diagnosis was flawed. I had written: > It looks like the newer version of sudo no longer preserves $HOME by > default... It looks like the older version didn't preserve $HOME either; instead it somehow preserved the .Xauthority information itself. As the manpage implies, forcing it to preserve $HOME could have some security implications. If someone knows of a more straightforward solution, please share! Ted Ruegsegger

Aug. 6, 2011

Solved: X apps no longer work with sudo after upgrade to Squeeze

by Theodore Ruegsegger

I could have guessed I'd find the answer just after posting, but perhaps this will make it easier for the next googler. I had written: > Summary: After upgrade from Lenny to Squeeze, I can no longer execute > X apps using sudo in an ssh session. Why not, and how can I restore > this ability? A careful reading of the manpage for the /etc/sudoers file (man 5 sudoers) yields this insight, under EXAMPLES: # Run X applications through sudo; HOME is used to find the # .Xauthority file. Note that other programs use HOME to find # configuration files and this may lead to privilege escalation! Defaults env_keep += "DISPLAY HOME" It looks like the newer version of sudo no longer preserves $HOME by default (although, the above notwithstanding, it does keep $DISPLAY). Adding the following line to my /etc/sudoers restored my ability to run X apps via sudo: Defaults env_keep += "HOME" Hope someone else finds this helpful. Ted Ruegsegger

Aug. 6, 2011

X apps no longer work with sudo after upgrade to Squeeze

by Theodore Ruegsegger

Summary: After upgrade from Lenny to Squeeze, I can no longer execute X apps using sudo in an ssh session. Why not, and how can I restore this ability? Details: I just got around to upgrading [1] a server to from Debian Lenny to Debian Squeeze. Normally I access it via ssh with X forwarding so that I can display any X apps on my workstation [2]. I have root logins disabled and use sudo instead when I wish to run an app as root. Under Lenny, I could execute X apps under sudo and they would display just fine, for example: sudo xless some-file [prompts for my password] [xless opens in a window on my workstation] Under Squeeze, the attempt fails with an error message: sudo xless some-file [prompts for my password] X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication. Error: Can't open display: localhost:10.0 Googling "X forwarding sudo" gives me lots of explanations about .Xauthority and cookies but nothing that explains why I should now need to manage this myself when I didn't need to before. Can anyone set me straight? Ted Ruegsegger __________________________ Notes: [1] More precisely, I didn't dist-upgrade it (that's another story) but installed Squeeze from scratch, preserving the /home partition and repeating my original configuration steps. [2] This server doesn't run a GUI desktop.

Aug. 6, 2011

Reminder: WLUG BBQ: Wednesday, August 10, 6pm

by Chuck Anderson

Hi gang, The WLUG BBQ is coming up next week, Wednesday, August 10, starting at 6pm. Thanks to those who volunteered to bring items, and thanks to our hostess Liz Johnson. We'll have hot dogs, burgers, bratwurst, all the fixings, some chips/snacks, salad and soda. The grill will be fired up if anyone has something else they'd like to grill, and desserts would be welcome as well. There will be a cooler or two and some ice for BYOB. People should bring a lawn chair for themselves if they wish to sit down. Based on past BBQ's, I'm expecting about 15-20 people, perhaps more. The address: 34 Hudson St, Worcester, MA (It is a green house, one house south of Elm St. Elm St runs east/west along Elm Park and Hudson St is one block east of Park Ave.) Look for a "WLUG" sign on the city light pole, as well as a big Tux Penguin. If you get lost you can call Liz at 508-471-4407. Hope to see you there! Chuck WLUG President

Aug. 6, 2011

WLUG BBQ

by Chuck Anderson

We need some volunteers to help make this BBQ a success. Who can help by picking up the following items and bringing them to the BBQ? WLUG will reimburse for food & supplies (please save receipts). Please email me back if you can help out with anything. 0. Burgers, Hot Dogs, Buns 1. Cheese, Condiments 2. Soda, Ice 3. Utensils, Plates, Napkins 4. Chips/dip/snacks Also, if anyone has the following items we could use, that would be helpful: 5. A couple tables 6. Lawn chairs (I have some coolers I can bring) Beyond that, people can bring whatever BYOB, desserts, or other items they wish. On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:06:50PM -0400, E Johnson wrote: > Aug 10 will do. > > Bring lawn chairs & etc. Need extra table or 2. > I will make sure there is propane for the grill. Refrig can hold some stuff, > but bring coolers for the most critical items. > Will make sure grass is mowed & etc. Will make potato salad & get tomatoes > from Farm Market. > > 34 Hudson St Worcester (top floor) > It's not beautiful, but it's certainly central. > > Liz J > 508-471-4407 > > On 11 July 2011 21:55, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > > > Thanks for volunteering Liz! Would people like to have this on our > > regularly scheduled 2nd Wednesday of August 10, perhaps starting at > > 6pm? If not, July 27th also works for me. > > > > On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 07:17:59PM -0400, E Johnson wrote: > > > We might be able to host this year. I am near WPI near Elm Park. > > > > > > We have one propane grill here now. Have backyard, would need chairs & > > > prob. table or 2 (bring yours) > > > > > > Note > I am a Tenant not Owner. owner would not mind low-key geekly > > > club. Clloers for drinks & ice & grill meats would be needed. > > > > > > I can turn on the wireless and/or throw down a long ethernet cable > > > with/without 2nd wireless router, for use during the event. > > > > > > Facilities (including B-room) in my place are small but certainly > > > usable. These are on 3rd Floor, but obviously yard is on ground level. > > > > > > We have been rather bug-free so far this season. > > > > > > Shoot for late July / early Aug if this sounds good, & commit for > > > supplies/details if you want to use this venue. I will make a nice > > > tomato salad and some other compliments to carnivoer fare. If all > > > else fails, TechPizza is onlt a phone call away. > > > > > > Liz J > > > More anchovies please

July 21, 2011

Announce: no meeting tonight

by Chuck Anderson

We're going to take this month off. See you all at the WLUG BBQ on August 10! Chuck

July 13, 2011

Re: [Wlug] WLUG BBQ

by E Johnson

Aug 10 will do. Bring lawn chairs & etc. Need extra table or 2. I will make sure there is propane for the grill. Refrig can hold some stuff, but bring coolers for the most critical items. Will make sure grass is mowed & etc. Will make potato salad & get tomatoes from Farm Market. 34 Hudson St Worcester (top floor) It's not beautiful, but it's certainly central. Liz J 508-471-4407 On 11 July 2011 21:55, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > Thanks for volunteering Liz! Would people like to have this on our > regularly scheduled 2nd Wednesday of August 10, perhaps starting at > 6pm? If not, July 27th also works for me. > > On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 07:17:59PM -0400, E Johnson wrote: > > We might be able to host this year. I am near WPI near Elm Park. > > > > We have one propane grill here now. Have backyard, would need chairs & > > prob. table or 2 (bring yours) > > > > Note > I am a Tenant not Owner. owner would not mind low-key geekly > > club. Clloers for drinks & ice & grill meats would be needed. > > > > I can turn on the wireless and/or throw down a long ethernet cable > > with/without 2nd wireless router, for use during the event. > > > > Facilities (including B-room) in my place are small but certainly > > usable. These are on 3rd Floor, but obviously yard is on ground level. > > > > We have been rather bug-free so far this season. > > > > Shoot for late July / early Aug if this sounds good, & commit for > > supplies/details if you want to use this venue. I will make a nice > > tomato salad and some other compliments to carnivoer fare. If all > > else fails, TechPizza is onlt a phone call away. > > > > Liz J > > More anchovies please > > > > > > > > On 6 July 2011 14:21, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > > > Who wants to have a WLUG BBQ? Traditionally, we have one in July or > > > August. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wlug mailing list > > > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > > > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

July 12, 2011

Re: [Wlug] WLUG BBQ

by Chuck Anderson

Thanks for volunteering Liz! Would people like to have this on our regularly scheduled 2nd Wednesday of August 10, perhaps starting at 6pm? If not, July 27th also works for me. On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 07:17:59PM -0400, E Johnson wrote: > We might be able to host this year. I am near WPI near Elm Park. > > We have one propane grill here now. Have backyard, would need chairs & > prob. table or 2 (bring yours) > > Note > I am a Tenant not Owner. owner would not mind low-key geekly > club. Clloers for drinks & ice & grill meats would be needed. > > I can turn on the wireless and/or throw down a long ethernet cable > with/without 2nd wireless router, for use during the event. > > Facilities (including B-room) in my place are small but certainly > usable. These are on 3rd Floor, but obviously yard is on ground level. > > We have been rather bug-free so far this season. > > Shoot for late July / early Aug if this sounds good, & commit for > supplies/details if you want to use this venue. I will make a nice > tomato salad and some other compliments to carnivoer fare. If all > else fails, TechPizza is onlt a phone call away. > > Liz J > More anchovies please > > > > On 6 July 2011 14:21, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > > Who wants to have a WLUG BBQ? Traditionally, we have one in July or > > August. > > _______________________________________________ > > Wlug mailing list > > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

July 12, 2011

Re: [Wlug] WLUG BBQ

by Tim Keller

Depending on the date, you can count me in as well! You can count me in for bratwurst, buns, some chips, etc. On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 7:17 PM, E Johnson <iris.gates(a)gmail.com> wrote: > We might be able to host this year. I am near WPI near Elm Park. > > We have one propane grill here now. Have backyard, would need chairs & > prob. table or 2 (bring yours) > > Note > I am a Tenant not Owner. owner would not mind low-key geekly > club. Clloers for drinks & ice & grill meats would be needed. > > I can turn on the wireless and/or throw down a long ethernet cable > with/without 2nd wireless router, for use during the event. > > Facilities (including B-room) in my place are small but certainly > usable. These are on 3rd Floor, but obviously yard is on ground level. > > We have been rather bug-free so far this season. > > Shoot for late July / early Aug if this sounds good, & commit for > supplies/details if you want to use this venue. I will make a nice > tomato salad and some other compliments to carnivoer fare. If all > else fails, TechPizza is onlt a phone call away. > > Liz J > More anchovies please > > > > On 6 July 2011 14:21, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > > Who wants to have a WLUG BBQ? Traditionally, we have one in July or > > August. > > _______________________________________________ > > Wlug mailing list > > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

July 7, 2011