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Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by John Stoffel

Brett> I will double check later tonight the completely bare motherboard Brett> (with CPU and at least one DIMM, of course) to see if I can repro Brett> again in this state. I'll check for any LEDs and flashing patterns. Actually, I'd also go into the BIOS and reset it to the manufacturers defaults, just in case you made a change at some point to tweak settings for more performance, etc. I.E. make sure there's no overclocking or anything like that. Good luck! John

Oct. 10, 2012

Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by Brett Russ

All, I'll try to address everyone's responses at once. In short, it's nothing to do with the OS because the problem is quite simply a failure for the BIOS to complete POST, and quite often at that. As I mentioned I've already repro'd the problem with everything (which means a video card and all SATA devices and all USB devices b/c everything else is onboard) unplugged. This is why I suspect the HW. The next step is, as someone suggested, monitoring motherboard LEDs, although I haven't seen much here yet. There is no beep pattern when things fail. There is, apparently, a beep at end of POST, which I don't hear when the problem repro's, which indicates to me that I'm stuck in POST somewhere. I will double check later tonight the completely bare motherboard (with CPU and at least one DIMM, of course) to see if I can repro again in this state. I'll check for any LEDs and flashing patterns. Lastly, I'll manually disable through BIOS menu as many devices as I can and hope that the settings stick across reboot (I'd mentioned some problems in this department in my original email). Even then I'm not sure if the BIOS will still include these devices in POST (I'd expect it might) and then just disable them before proceeding to boot the OS. Thanks for the help all! Brett

Oct. 10, 2012

Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by David P. Connell

My apologies for excess (here and previous posts). I should have re-read the original post more clearly. Still, I hope I may have sparked a thought along the chain of diagnosis. Good luck. -- David P. Connell "Watch where you're going; remember where you've been."

Oct. 10, 2012

Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by David P. Connell

I agree with running a liveCD OS to test for software issues. Almost always do that to draw the line between software and hardware issues. Try Puppy Linux, if only because of the fast download, cute name, and it is of course, useful as well. SystemRescueCD too. And, to clarify about "fickle memory" - I meant running tests on memory can be tricky, as was mentioned by another individual. Still sounds like it could be spiking power and then lagging power in the supply circuit on the motherboard. Could be a single capacitor or (sadly) impossible to find economically. I hope it is something simple though, like the NIC idea, although those are usually onboard nowadays and a bad IC or circuit there may remain a problem even if not being used. You could try the same idea as our friend suggested of removing peripherals and adding them back by doing something similar in the bios by disabling all nonessential items. Turn off the NIC, the serial port, if applicable, etc. One thing I wasn't sure of: have you tried a different video card? You mentioned replacing the failed monitor in the original post. I always try to go back to previous failures and changes to trace current problems. It may be possible that some sort of power spike during the failure of that old monitor caused an intermittent (or pending) issue in your video card that is now showing up in your system. Since the video subsystem is such a 'major' part of the way we use computers these days and also very tightly bound to the power system and power requirements in a lot of instances, I would at least check it out. DaveC On 10/10/2012 1:24 PM, David P. Connell wrote: > How about the power capacitors and/or ic's on the board itself (as > opposed the the power supply)? I have to admit, that is the first thing > that came to my mind after reading the first few posts. I'm surprised > nobody else went there. Of course, memory is a fickle thing and it > still could be that, but I am feeling that it is something else. > > DaveC > > > On 10/8/2012 11:30 PM, Brett Russ wrote: >> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 7:57 AM, Brett Russ <bruss(a)alum.wpi.edu> wrote: >>> On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: >>>> I agree that the power supply is suspect. You can measure the voltage >>>> Alternatively, it may be easier to just try a replacement. >>> I have a new one on the way. I'll reply here with the results. >> Well, brand new power supply and the system behaves the same >> problematic way as before. >> >> So next try is the memory, as another list reply suggested. I've had >> memtest86 running against both DIMMs for 47+ hours and counting, 70 >> total passes so far, and 0 errors. Remember I'd already tried >> removing first one DIMM, then the other, and the problem repro'd >> either way. So by these measures it'd seem the memory is OK? I know >> some mem problems take days to show up so I'll just leave this running >> for a couple more days anyway. >> >> Not much more I can do here, as I've seen repros with most everything >> else unplugged so I'm now thinking it must be the motherboard. >> Perhaps I will try reseating the CPU--haven't done that yet. >> >> Recall the system is having trouble POST'ing: it hangs at various >> points before BIOS POST completes, i.e. I don't get a confirming >> 'beep' at end of POST and in some cases the monitor won't wake, other >> cases the BIOS splash screen stays splashed, etc. The full original >> email is here: >> http://mail.wlug.org/pipermail/wlug/2012-September/008059.html >> >> Anyway, if anyone has other ideas here I'd welcome them. >> >> Thanks again, >> Brett >> _______________________________________________ >> Wlug mailing list >> Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org >> http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >> > -- David P. Connell "Watch where you're going; remember where you've been."

Oct. 10, 2012

Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by David P. Connell

How about the power capacitors and/or ic's on the board itself (as opposed the the power supply)? I have to admit, that is the first thing that came to my mind after reading the first few posts. I'm surprised nobody else went there. Of course, memory is a fickle thing and it still could be that, but I am feeling that it is something else. DaveC On 10/8/2012 11:30 PM, Brett Russ wrote: > On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 7:57 AM, Brett Russ <bruss(a)alum.wpi.edu> wrote: >> On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: >>> I agree that the power supply is suspect. You can measure the voltage >>> Alternatively, it may be easier to just try a replacement. >> I have a new one on the way. I'll reply here with the results. > Well, brand new power supply and the system behaves the same > problematic way as before. > > So next try is the memory, as another list reply suggested. I've had > memtest86 running against both DIMMs for 47+ hours and counting, 70 > total passes so far, and 0 errors. Remember I'd already tried > removing first one DIMM, then the other, and the problem repro'd > either way. So by these measures it'd seem the memory is OK? I know > some mem problems take days to show up so I'll just leave this running > for a couple more days anyway. > > Not much more I can do here, as I've seen repros with most everything > else unplugged so I'm now thinking it must be the motherboard. > Perhaps I will try reseating the CPU--haven't done that yet. > > Recall the system is having trouble POST'ing: it hangs at various > points before BIOS POST completes, i.e. I don't get a confirming > 'beep' at end of POST and in some cases the monitor won't wake, other > cases the BIOS splash screen stays splashed, etc. The full original > email is here: > http://mail.wlug.org/pipermail/wlug/2012-September/008059.html > > Anyway, if anyone has other ideas here I'd welcome them. > > Thanks again, > Brett > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > -- David P. Connell "Watch where you're going; remember where you've been."

Oct. 10, 2012

Re: [Wlug] Possible problem with demo tomorrow...

by Frank Sweetser

My vote would be to go ahead with the presentation, and don't worry about the demo. Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote: >There's that old adage, when it rains it pours... > >Work critical stuff has made it hard for me to focus on getting the >demo to >work completely. > >I can do two things... > >1. I can do my presentation without the demo. >2. I can do my presentation next month, giving me time to get the demo >working right, etc. > >What do you guys want me to do? > >Thanks, >Tim. > >-- >I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >constituents as "consumers". > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Wlug mailing list >Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org >http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Oct. 9, 2012

Possible problem with demo tomorrow...

by Tim Keller

There's that old adage, when it rains it pours... Work critical stuff has made it hard for me to focus on getting the demo to work completely. I can do two things... 1. I can do my presentation without the demo. 2. I can do my presentation next month, giving me time to get the demo working right, etc. What do you guys want me to do? Thanks, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Oct. 9, 2012

Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by Theo Van Dinter

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Richard Klein <rich(a)richardklein.org>wrote: > It could be the motherboard or CPU, but try unplugging all USB devices > and removing all the internal cards that you can, first. If it boots > okay then, try adding them back, one at a time, until you find the > offending device. > Just a second for this sort of approach. I once had a machine which basically got hit by lightning and they went down. In the end, I found that what had actually happened was the hub I was using got hit and fried all the network cards on the LAN. As I recall, the machines wouldn't even let me power them on until I pulled the (noticeably crispy) network card out and then everything worked fine after that.

Oct. 9, 2012

Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by joel d

> From: Brett Russ <bruss(a)alum.wpi.edu> > Subject: Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply > To: Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org> > Message-ID: > <CAGcHgFN4odSRHmS=jjYuvEDy1myRMOgKEYxy0bWu9e4-3V9i7A(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 7:57 AM, Brett Russ <bruss(a)alum.wpi.edu> wrote: >> On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: >>> I agree that the power supply is suspect. You can measure the voltage >> >>> Alternatively, it may be easier to just try a replacement. >> >> I have a new one on the way. I'll reply here with the results. > > Well, brand new power supply and the system behaves the same > problematic way as before. > > So next try is the memory, as another list reply suggested. I've had > memtest86 running against both DIMMs for 47+ hours and counting, 70 > total passes so far, and 0 errors. Remember I'd already tried > removing first one DIMM, then the other, and the problem repro'd > either way. So by these measures it'd seem the memory is OK? I know > some mem problems take days to show up so I'll just leave this running > for a couple more days anyway. > > Not much more I can do here, as I've seen repros with most everything > else unplugged so I'm now thinking it must be the motherboard. > Perhaps I will try reseating the CPU--haven't done that yet. > > Recall the system is having trouble POST'ing: it hangs at various > points before BIOS POST completes, i.e. I don't get a confirming > 'beep' at end of POST and in some cases the monitor won't wake, other > cases the BIOS splash screen stays splashed, etc. The full original > email is here: > http://mail.wlug.org/pipermail/wlug/2012-September/008059.html > > Anyway, if anyone has other ideas here I'd welcome them. > > Thanks again, > Brett > Hi Brett, You sound pretty convinced this is a PC hardware problem. I think I missed the earlier discussion, but how exactly do you know this is hardware at fault (vs anything not hardware at fault) and how certain are you? Have you tried running a "bootable operating system" via a CD or DVD drive as a diagnostic step (will it boot Ubuntu or another from the optical drive)? If CD/DVD boot is out, there are thumb drive bootable images also. I would start here and rule out everything that is not hardware. As a test, if a different O.S. than Ubuntu 11.10, runs well (except slower) from an optical drive, your hardware is likely fine (and instead have an Ubuntu 11 or app or driver problem). Step only takes a few minutes and is very telling (and well worth it IMHO). This step will likely tell you if it is hardware vs everything else. So if you can assure yourself it is hardware 100% ... All the PC hardware I have worked on in the past years is pretty much self diagnosing/reporting. In this case, your job if you choose to accept it, is to "read and decipher what the motherboard is telling you at boot up". To speak the language of your motherboard, you need to check for any of the following information: External to case, Rear facing LEDs (often have many and are multi-colored) On motherboard LEDs, viewable only inside Beep tones heard at boot up Error or other messages displayed quickly at bootup You need to read the "diagnostics" page of your model's specific PC or motherboard vendor's manual for this specific PC/motherboard to decipher what it is seeing at bootup (based upon lights/beeps/LEDS/etc). Sounds like: You either have two bad power supplies, or this is not the problem. You could have bad memory DIMM(s) that do pass MemTest86 (these test help, but I have seen them pass on bad chips it is a bit of a long shot though). You have changed the motherboard battery and flashed the latest BIOS. Don't rule out a new BIOS being a problem (glitch in install or wrong one or BIOS version problem) You still have a problem that could be hardware or not. You could have an Ubuntu 11 playing well with your motherboard, thus a test of another OS and version... If it was my PC I would next rule out the following in this order: Test and work on whatever the motherboard manufacturer is telling you via lights/beeps/LEDs/boot messages. Ubuntu V11.10, not because I don't like it but trying something else for 15 minutes could tell you something. The current version of CMOS you flashed to the motherboard

Oct. 9, 2012

Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by Richard Klein

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 11:30 PM, Brett Russ <bruss(a)alum.wpi.edu> wrote: > > Well, brand new power supply and the system behaves the same > problematic way as before. > > So next try is the memory, as another list reply suggested. I've had > memtest86 running against both DIMMs for 47+ hours and counting, 70 > total passes so far, and 0 errors. Remember I'd already tried > removing first one DIMM, then the other, and the problem repro'd > either way. So by these measures it'd seem the memory is OK? I know > some mem problems take days to show up so I'll just leave this running > for a couple more days anyway. > > Not much more I can do here, as I've seen repros with most everything > else unplugged so I'm now thinking it must be the motherboard. > Perhaps I will try reseating the CPU--haven't done that yet. It could be the motherboard or CPU, but try unplugging all USB devices and removing all the internal cards that you can, first. If it boots okay then, try adding them back, one at a time, until you find the offending device. -- Rich

Oct. 9, 2012

Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by kstratton＠fastmail.us

If you reseat the CPU, be careful with the heatsink. I have pulled out an AMD chip out of a socket with the socket engaged by trying to remove the heatsink. The heatsink compound can get gooey enough to act like a weak glue. On Mon, Oct 8, 2012, at 11:30 PM, Brett Russ wrote: > On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 7:57 AM, Brett Russ <bruss(a)alum.wpi.edu> wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > >> I agree that the power supply is suspect. You can measure the voltage > > > >> Alternatively, it may be easier to just try a replacement. > > > > I have a new one on the way. I'll reply here with the results. > > Well, brand new power supply and the system behaves the same > problematic way as before. > > So next try is the memory, as another list reply suggested. I've had > memtest86 running against both DIMMs for 47+ hours and counting, 70 > total passes so far, and 0 errors. Remember I'd already tried > removing first one DIMM, then the other, and the problem repro'd > either way. So by these measures it'd seem the memory is OK? I know > some mem problems take days to show up so I'll just leave this running > for a couple more days anyway. > > Not much more I can do here, as I've seen repros with most everything > else unplugged so I'm now thinking it must be the motherboard. > Perhaps I will try reseating the CPU--haven't done that yet. > > Recall the system is having trouble POST'ing: it hangs at various > points before BIOS POST completes, i.e. I don't get a confirming > 'beep' at end of POST and in some cases the monitor won't wake, other > cases the BIOS splash screen stays splashed, etc. The full original > email is here: > http://mail.wlug.org/pipermail/wlug/2012-September/008059.html > > Anyway, if anyone has other ideas here I'd welcome them. > > Thanks again, > Brett > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug -- kstratton(a)fastmail.us

Oct. 9, 2012

Announce: WLUG Meeting Wed 10/10 7PM: OpenStack

by Chuck Anderson

Hi folks, The next Worcester Linux Users' Group (WLUG) monthly meeting will be held on Wednesday, October 10, at 7PM. The location will be WPI Higgins Labs, room 230 (computer lab). Wednesday, October 10, 7:00 - 9:00 PM WPI Higgins Labs, room 230 (computer lab) WLUG member Tim Keller will be giving a presentation on OpenStack, open source software for building private and public clouds. Afterwards, we will go out for pizza and continue our discussions. See you there, Chuck President, Worcester Linux Users' Group http://www.wlug.org/

Oct. 9, 2012

Re: [Wlug] I presume we're meeting the 10th of Oct?

by Chuck Anderson

I reserved Higgins Labs 230 again, same place as last month. On Mon, Oct 08, 2012 at 04:41:23PM -0400, Tim Keller wrote: > Chuck, > > Where will this meeting be held? My current demo setup is two pcs... > I'm probably going to need help depending on where we have it. > > Thanks, > Tim. > > On 10/5/12, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > > Sounds great! > > > > On Fri, Oct 05, 2012 at 11:01:24AM -0400, Tim Keller wrote: > >> That's a great idea. I do lots and lots of virtualization stuff.. I'd be > >> willing to do some research, setup a demo and do a talk about OpenStack. > >> > >> Chuck, what do you think? > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 9:19 PM, David Glaser > >> <dglaser(a)glaserresearch.net>wrote: > >> > >> > How about the cloud -say OpenStack. I see references to it. > >> > > >> > -David > >> > On 10/04/2012 03:38 PM, Tim Keller wrote: > >> > > >> > Hey Gang! > >> > > >> > I presume we're having a meeting on the 10th? Does anybody have a > >> > topic/idea? > >> > > >> > Thanks, > >> > Tim.

Oct. 9, 2012

Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by Brett Russ

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 7:57 AM, Brett Russ <bruss(a)alum.wpi.edu> wrote: > On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: >> I agree that the power supply is suspect. You can measure the voltage > >> Alternatively, it may be easier to just try a replacement. > > I have a new one on the way. I'll reply here with the results. Well, brand new power supply and the system behaves the same problematic way as before. So next try is the memory, as another list reply suggested. I've had memtest86 running against both DIMMs for 47+ hours and counting, 70 total passes so far, and 0 errors. Remember I'd already tried removing first one DIMM, then the other, and the problem repro'd either way. So by these measures it'd seem the memory is OK? I know some mem problems take days to show up so I'll just leave this running for a couple more days anyway. Not much more I can do here, as I've seen repros with most everything else unplugged so I'm now thinking it must be the motherboard. Perhaps I will try reseating the CPU--haven't done that yet. Recall the system is having trouble POST'ing: it hangs at various points before BIOS POST completes, i.e. I don't get a confirming 'beep' at end of POST and in some cases the monitor won't wake, other cases the BIOS splash screen stays splashed, etc. The full original email is here: http://mail.wlug.org/pipermail/wlug/2012-September/008059.html Anyway, if anyone has other ideas here I'd welcome them. Thanks again, Brett

Oct. 9, 2012

Re: [Wlug] I presume we're meeting the 10th of Oct?

by Tim Keller

Chuck, Where will this meeting be held? My current demo setup is two pcs... I'm probably going to need help depending on where we have it. Thanks, Tim. On 10/5/12, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > Sounds great! > > On Fri, Oct 05, 2012 at 11:01:24AM -0400, Tim Keller wrote: >> That's a great idea. I do lots and lots of virtualization stuff.. I'd be >> willing to do some research, setup a demo and do a talk about OpenStack. >> >> Chuck, what do you think? >> >> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 9:19 PM, David Glaser >> <dglaser(a)glaserresearch.net>wrote: >> >> > How about the cloud -say OpenStack. I see references to it. >> > >> > -David >> > On 10/04/2012 03:38 PM, Tim Keller wrote: >> > >> > Hey Gang! >> > >> > I presume we're having a meeting on the 10th? Does anybody have a >> > topic/idea? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Tim. >> > >> > -- >> > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >> > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > -- Sent from my mobile device I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Oct. 8, 2012

Re: [Wlug] I presume we're meeting the 10th of Oct?

by Chuck Anderson

Sounds great! On Fri, Oct 05, 2012 at 11:01:24AM -0400, Tim Keller wrote: > That's a great idea. I do lots and lots of virtualization stuff.. I'd be > willing to do some research, setup a demo and do a talk about OpenStack. > > Chuck, what do you think? > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 9:19 PM, David Glaser <dglaser(a)glaserresearch.net>wrote: > > > How about the cloud -say OpenStack. I see references to it. > > > > -David > > On 10/04/2012 03:38 PM, Tim Keller wrote: > > > > Hey Gang! > > > > I presume we're having a meeting on the 10th? Does anybody have a > > topic/idea? > > > > Thanks, > > Tim. > > > > -- > > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > > constituents as "consumers".

Oct. 6, 2012

Re: [Wlug] I presume we're meeting the 10th of Oct?

by Frank Sweetser

Fantastic idea! Plus if it's on Wednesday the 10th I should actually be able to make it for once... Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu | For every problem, there is a solution that Manager of Network Operations | is simple, elegant, and wrong. Worcester Polytechnic Institute | - HL Mencken On 10/4/2012 9:19 PM, David Glaser wrote: > How about the cloud -say OpenStack. I see references to it. > > -David > On 10/04/2012 03:38 PM, Tim Keller wrote: >> Hey Gang! >> >> I presume we're having a meeting on the 10th? Does anybody have a topic/idea? >> >> Thanks, >> Tim. >> >> -- >> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >> constituents as "consumers". >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wlug mailing list >> Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org >> http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

Oct. 6, 2012

Re: [Wlug] I presume we're meeting the 10th of Oct?

by Tim Keller

That's a great idea. I do lots and lots of virtualization stuff.. I'd be willing to do some research, setup a demo and do a talk about OpenStack. Chuck, what do you think? On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 9:19 PM, David Glaser <dglaser(a)glaserresearch.net>wrote: > How about the cloud -say OpenStack. I see references to it. > > -David > On 10/04/2012 03:38 PM, Tim Keller wrote: > > Hey Gang! > > I presume we're having a meeting on the 10th? Does anybody have a > topic/idea? > > Thanks, > Tim. > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing listWlug@mail.wlug.orghttp://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Oct. 5, 2012

Re: [Wlug] I presume we're meeting the 10th of Oct?

by David Glaser

How about the cloud -say OpenStack. I see references to it. -David On 10/04/2012 03:38 PM, Tim Keller wrote: > Hey Gang! > > I presume we're having a meeting on the 10th? Does anybody have a > topic/idea? > > Thanks, > Tim. > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Oct. 5, 2012

I presume we're meeting the 10th of Oct?

by Tim Keller

Hey Gang! I presume we're having a meeting on the 10th? Does anybody have a topic/idea? Thanks, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Oct. 4, 2012

Re: [Wlug] Wlug Digest, Vol 107, Issue 13

by Karl Lind

Hi Brett, First off, CMOS checksum errors during boot refer to MEMORY not the BIOS. Also almost all your symptoms point to a possible memory issue. Do Chuck's stuff to verify that you don't have a power drain that's causing a memory issue. Get a Memory Test utility and find out which DIMM is causing the problem. Carefully remove the DIMM and using a #2 pencil eraser, clean the contacts and replace the DIMM (The rubber removes oxidation that prevents contact) and don't forget to keep grounded! (You, not the DIMM). Cheers Karl On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:00 PM, <wlug-request(a)mail.wlug.org> wrote: > Send Wlug mailing list submissions to > wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > wlug-request(a)mail.wlug.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > wlug-owner(a)mail.wlug.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Wlug digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply (Brett Russ) > 2. Re: help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply > (Chuck Anderson) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 14:32:05 -0400 > From: Brett Russ <bruss(a)alum.wpi.edu> > Subject: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply > To: Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org> > Message-ID: > <CAGcHgFNRd2jLrywD977a0jZChqEREnNBt529abY0= > fh2OU5FAA(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi, > > I'm trying to diagnose a home built PC running fine since 2007 but lately > starting to act odd. Here are the system specs: > Intel Core 2 Duo 1.8GHz cpu > Asus P5B Deluxe mobo > Nvidia 7900GS graphics card > Kingston KHX6400 2x1GB DDR2 memory > Sparkle ATX 400W power supply > 3x 1TB SATA HDDs > 1x SATA DVD-RW > > $ uname -a > Linux spider 3.0.0-25-generic #41-Ubuntu SMP Mon Aug 13 17:58:59 UTC 2012 > x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux > > $ cat /etc/*release > DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu > DISTRIB_RELEASE=11.10 > DISTRIB_CODENAME=oneiric > DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 11.10" > > $ uname -a > Linux spider 3.0.0-25-generic #41-Ubuntu SMP Mon Aug 13 17:58:59 UTC 2012 > x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux > > > What recently changed: > > i) replaced monitor, last one died > > ii) (carefully) vacuumed the dust from inside. Kept hand on case chassis, > didn't touch any PCB/chips, etc. > > > Here are the symptoms: > > 1) first started seeing BIOS claims of bad CMOS checksum at boot time. > Immediately suspected the CMOS battery, replaced it and reset CMOS settings > but I continue to see this. This is the one symptom that I can't yet > place, unless it's simply a bad replacement battery. > > 2) next started seeing the monitor fail to wake up after entering power > save > > 3) powering on the PC shows issues: > > 3a) often the monitor won't wake at boot > > 3b) the bios often doesn't finish POST, gets stuck at splash screen > > 3c) bios settings often don't survive across power cycles (possibly related > to #1--battery issue?) > > 3d) bios doesn't always give the affirmative beep (likely same symptom as > 3a, 3b) > > 3e) a cold power on or reset can take several "tries" before the system > stays on. I.e. fans will spin up, then spin down, one to three times > before staying on. When this happens it's pretty much guaranteed that it > won't boot successfully. > > 4) system will freeze to user input while up. I.e. once I get Linux > booted, as long as I disable monitor power save it will stay running for a > while, but I observed it stopped responding to KB and mouse input earlier > this morning. > > > Here's what I've tried: > > a) reseated both DIMMs, reproduced issues; tried with just one DIMM, > repro'd; tried other DIMM, repro'd > > b) reseated graphics card, repro'd; removed graphics card (now headless), > repro'd problem 3e > > c) reseated CMOS battery (CR2032), repro'd > > d) pulled all non-essential cables and internal connections, including > power and SATA cables from all drives, repro'd > > e) updated BIOS to latest version, repro'd > > > Unfortunately I don't have another ATX power supply to try, but was > thinking of buying one. I might also try an old PCI video card, but I > suspect due to repro (b) above that it's not the cause. > > Anyone have any other insights or agree it sounds like a bad PS? I still > can't explain symptom (1), will probably buy another battery to be sure. > Five years seems like an old PC, but I'm not a gamer so this suits me fine. > > > Thanks, > Brett > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://mail.wlug.org/pipermail/wlug/attachments/20120929/8959d06a/attachmen… > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 18:19:47 -0400 > From: Chuck Anderson <cra(a)WPI.EDU> > Subject: Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply > To: Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org> > Message-ID: <20120929221947.GH12327(a)angus.ind.WPI.EDU> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 02:32:05PM -0400, Brett Russ wrote: > > Sparkle ATX 400W power supply > > Anyone have any other insights or agree it sounds like a bad PS? I still > > can't explain symptom (1), will probably buy another battery to be sure. > > Five years seems like an old PC, but I'm not a gamer so this suits me > fine. > > I agree that the power supply is suspect. You can measure the voltage > on a spare power supply hard drive connector, there should be 12v from > black to yellow, and 5v from black to red. If that checks out, you > should measure from the motherboard ATX connector as some of the other > voltages may be out of spec. You can find the standard ATX pinouts > and voltages online. Finally, you can test with the power supply > completely disconnected from the PC. Again, you can find instructions > online for how to do that, as it requires a jumper wire for the power > supply to power on. > > Alternatively, it may be easier to just try a replacement. > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > End of Wlug Digest, Vol 107, Issue 13 > ************************************* >

Oct. 1, 2012

Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by Brett Russ

Thanks Chuck, On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > I agree that the power supply is suspect. You can measure the voltage > on a spare power supply hard drive connector, there should be 12v from > black to yellow, and 5v from black to red. If that checks out, you > should measure from the motherboard ATX connector as some of the other > voltages may be out of spec. You can find the standard ATX pinouts > and voltages online. Finally, you can test with the power supply > completely disconnected from the PC. Again, you can find instructions > online for how to do that, as it requires a jumper wire for the power > supply to power on. I suppose it's time to buy a multimeter...or borrow one from work. > Alternatively, it may be easier to just try a replacement. I have a new one on the way. I'll reply here with the results. -BR

Oct. 1, 2012

Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by Chuck Anderson

On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 02:32:05PM -0400, Brett Russ wrote: > Sparkle ATX 400W power supply > Anyone have any other insights or agree it sounds like a bad PS? I still > can't explain symptom (1), will probably buy another battery to be sure. > Five years seems like an old PC, but I'm not a gamer so this suits me fine. I agree that the power supply is suspect. You can measure the voltage on a spare power supply hard drive connector, there should be 12v from black to yellow, and 5v from black to red. If that checks out, you should measure from the motherboard ATX connector as some of the other voltages may be out of spec. You can find the standard ATX pinouts and voltages online. Finally, you can test with the power supply completely disconnected from the PC. Again, you can find instructions online for how to do that, as it requires a jumper wire for the power supply to power on. Alternatively, it may be easier to just try a replacement.

Sept. 29, 2012

help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by Brett Russ

Hi, I'm trying to diagnose a home built PC running fine since 2007 but lately starting to act odd. Here are the system specs: Intel Core 2 Duo 1.8GHz cpu Asus P5B Deluxe mobo Nvidia 7900GS graphics card Kingston KHX6400 2x1GB DDR2 memory Sparkle ATX 400W power supply 3x 1TB SATA HDDs 1x SATA DVD-RW $ uname -a Linux spider 3.0.0-25-generic #41-Ubuntu SMP Mon Aug 13 17:58:59 UTC 2012 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux $ cat /etc/*release DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu DISTRIB_RELEASE=11.10 DISTRIB_CODENAME=oneiric DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 11.10" $ uname -a Linux spider 3.0.0-25-generic #41-Ubuntu SMP Mon Aug 13 17:58:59 UTC 2012 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux What recently changed: i) replaced monitor, last one died ii) (carefully) vacuumed the dust from inside. Kept hand on case chassis, didn't touch any PCB/chips, etc. Here are the symptoms: 1) first started seeing BIOS claims of bad CMOS checksum at boot time. Immediately suspected the CMOS battery, replaced it and reset CMOS settings but I continue to see this. This is the one symptom that I can't yet place, unless it's simply a bad replacement battery. 2) next started seeing the monitor fail to wake up after entering power save 3) powering on the PC shows issues: 3a) often the monitor won't wake at boot 3b) the bios often doesn't finish POST, gets stuck at splash screen 3c) bios settings often don't survive across power cycles (possibly related to #1--battery issue?) 3d) bios doesn't always give the affirmative beep (likely same symptom as 3a, 3b) 3e) a cold power on or reset can take several "tries" before the system stays on. I.e. fans will spin up, then spin down, one to three times before staying on. When this happens it's pretty much guaranteed that it won't boot successfully. 4) system will freeze to user input while up. I.e. once I get Linux booted, as long as I disable monitor power save it will stay running for a while, but I observed it stopped responding to KB and mouse input earlier this morning. Here's what I've tried: a) reseated both DIMMs, reproduced issues; tried with just one DIMM, repro'd; tried other DIMM, repro'd b) reseated graphics card, repro'd; removed graphics card (now headless), repro'd problem 3e c) reseated CMOS battery (CR2032), repro'd d) pulled all non-essential cables and internal connections, including power and SATA cables from all drives, repro'd e) updated BIOS to latest version, repro'd Unfortunately I don't have another ATX power supply to try, but was thinking of buying one. I might also try an old PCI video card, but I suspect due to repro (b) above that it's not the cause. Anyone have any other insights or agree it sounds like a bad PS? I still can't explain symptom (1), will probably buy another battery to be sure. Five years seems like an old PC, but I'm not a gamer so this suits me fine. Thanks, Brett

Sept. 29, 2012

Re: [Wlug] Test needed on declared-ill Modem. Who has a lab?

by John Stoffel

E> John, sorry to hear of the demise of your router. I have one of the E> newer Netgear routers here, running TomatoUSB. Very nice. It took 4 E> hands to do the magical reset after installing the software. but E> it's been solid after that. Well I did manage to get it rebooted and upgraded to the latest version of DD-WRT, but it's just sitting there waiting for me to get it setup again. I'm probably going to move to Tomato instead of DD-WRT, since I really want the ability to add internal hosts to my internal DNS without having to screw around with DNSmasq configurations all the time. I mostly do static IPs at home, except for the phones and other mobile devices... I just found that DD-WRT was sucky from a management perspective. But I liked having dual radio router doing all the work, instead of two seperate devices. John

Sept. 28, 2012