- WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

Re: [Wlug] WLUG meeting Thu April 10 7PM

by Jeff Moyer

Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> writes: > Thanks Chunk! I'll update the facebook group! ^^^^^ lol! Been watching Goonies lately, Tim? =P -Jeff

April 8, 2014

Re: [Wlug] WLUG meeting Thu April 10 7PM

by Tim Keller

Thanks Chunk! I'll update the facebook group! On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 9:35 AM, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > Thanks for the reminder. I updated the website last night, then got > sucked into OpenSSL suckiness. That may be a good topic to talk > about. > > So, yes there is a WLUG meeting this Thursday, April 10, at 7PM, in > the WPI Campus Center Mid-Century room (our usual room). > > On Tue, Apr 08, 2014 at 05:15:41AM -0700, The Hammer wrote: > > Tim, > > > > I'm not an "official" and figured I'd reply as no one has yet. I > thought the meeting times were changed to Thursdays. The website at: > > http://wlug.org/ > > Says it will be Thursday April 10th. > > Hopefully someone will confirm. > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> > > To: Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org> > > Sent: Monday, April 7, 2014 5:05 PM > > Subject: [Wlug] Meeting on Wednesday? > > > > > > > > I presume we're having a meeting on Wednesday? > > > > Thanks, > > Tim. > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

April 8, 2014

WLUG meeting Thu April 10 7PM

by Chuck Anderson

Thanks for the reminder. I updated the website last night, then got sucked into OpenSSL suckiness. That may be a good topic to talk about. So, yes there is a WLUG meeting this Thursday, April 10, at 7PM, in the WPI Campus Center Mid-Century room (our usual room). On Tue, Apr 08, 2014 at 05:15:41AM -0700, The Hammer wrote: > Tim, > > I'm not an "official" and figured I'd reply as no one has yet. I thought the meeting times were changed to Thursdays. The website at: > http://wlug.org/ > Says it will be Thursday April 10th. > Hopefully someone will confirm. > > Ron > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> > To: Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org> > Sent: Monday, April 7, 2014 5:05 PM > Subject: [Wlug] Meeting on Wednesday? > > > > I presume we're having a meeting on Wednesday? > > Thanks, > Tim.

April 8, 2014

Re: [Wlug] Meeting on Wednesday?

by The Hammer

Tim, I'm not an "official" and figured I'd reply as no one has yet. I thought the meeting times were changed to Thursdays. The website at: http://wlug.org/ Says it will be Thursday April 10th. Hopefully someone will confirm. Ron ________________________________ From: Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> To: Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org> Sent: Monday, April 7, 2014 5:05 PM Subject: [Wlug] Meeting on Wednesday? I presume we're having a meeting on Wednesday? Thanks, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers". _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

April 8, 2014

Meeting on Wednesday?

by Tim Keller

I presume we're having a meeting on Wednesday? Thanks, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

April 7, 2014

LOPSA-East Keynotes Announced!

by Evan Pettrey

Hello once again folks, LOPSA-East is proud to announce this year's keynote speakers! Friday evening Keynote: Vish Ishaya, CTO of Nebula Inc. Title: OpenStack in the Datacenter For better or worse, cloud is arriving in the datacenter. The massive growth of OpenStack is paving the way for an onslaught of private clouds. Cloud will be the second datacenter revolution this century. Virtualization changed the way that machines are provisioned and managed, and cloud promises an even more radical set of changes. Come hear Vish discuss the history of OpenStack, cloud versus virtualization, and get guidance for dealing with the specific challenges that cloud creates for system administrators! Bio: Vish Ishaya is Chief Technology Officer of Nebula, Inc. He is a highly prolific developer who was one of the founding engineers of OpenStack. He was elected to the first OpenStack Technical Committee, where he has served consistently since. He was also elected to four consecutive terms as the OpenStack Compute Project Technical Lead and is currently on the board of OpenStack Foundation. In addition to his programming and systems skills, Vish has spent over a decade teaching, most recently classes in object oriented analysis and design. Saturday closing Keynote: Elizabeth Krumbach Joseph Title: Universal Design for Tech: Improving Gender Diversity in our Industry Universal Design is a principle in accessibility thataccessible design makes things better for everyone. A key example of which are curb cuts and door openers which help those who are disabled but also folks with luggage and parents with strollers. Elizabeth will discuss ideas on how to improve gender diversity in our industry, but many of the tips will help everyone beyond improvements that come through diversity. From offering formal education for systems administration to offering flexible schedules and work arrangements, there are many things that can be done to attract much-needed talent. Bio: Elizabeth Krumbach Joseph is an Automation and Tools Engineer at HP working on the OpenStack Infrastructure team. She has been involved with open source communities for over a decade and turned that passion into a profession when she began working as a professional systems administrator in 2006. In addition to her work on OpenStack, she is a member of the Ubuntu Community Council and is a co-author of the upcoming 8th edition of The Official Ubuntu Book. At home, she serves on Board of Directors for Partimus.org, a non-profit in the San Francisco Bay Area providing Linux-based computers to schools in need. LOPSA-East is a regional sysadmin conference in New Brunswick NJ, May 2-3, 2014. Two days of world-class training on a diverse range of topics plus community-selected talks: http://lopsa-east.org/2014/schedule Best, Evan & the rest of the LOPSA-East 2014 Committee http://lopsa-east.org/2014 Register today!

April 3, 2014

Re: [Wlug] LOPSA-East Early Bird Deadline Extended!

by Keith Wright

William Bilancio <promote(a)lopsa-east.org> writes: Does anybody know this "promote" guy? I'm not good with names, but I think I know his brother "no-reply". > Great news everybody! > > Don't miss this great value - register today! He's pretty bossy, but I don't have to if I don't want. -- Keith

March 24, 2014

LOPSA-East Early Bird Deadline Extended!

by William Bilancio

Great news everybody! We have recieved a number of requests to extend discounted pricing from people either waiting on approval from their boss, or who just didn't get a chance to register beefore today. We've decided to give everybody one final opportunity to register at this greatly discounted rate - Early Bird pricing will be honored through Monday, March 31st. Don't miss this great value - register today! LOPSA-East is a regional sysadmin conference in New Brunswick NJ, May 2-3, 2014. Two days of world-class training on a diverse range of topics plus community-selected talks: http://lopsa-east.org/2014/schedule Best, William, Evan, & the rest of the LOPSA-East 2014 Committee http://lopsa-east.org/2014 Register today!

March 24, 2014

LOPSA-East Exclusive! Sneak peek at Tom Limoncelli's new book!

by Evan Pettrey

Did you hear? Tom Limoncelli has announced a new book and the only conference to get a sneak preview will be LOPSA-East! You may know Tom as the author of "Time Management for System Administrators" and co-author of "The Practice of System and Network Administration". We're very excited that he has selected our conference for this! The announcement is here: http://everythingsysadmin.com/2014/03/sneak-preview.html LOPSA-East is a regional sysadmin conference in New Brunswick NJ, May 2-3, 2014. Two days of world-class training on a diverse range of topics plus community-selected talks: http://lopsa-east.org/2014/schedule Looking forward to seeing you all there! Best, Evan & the rest of the LOPSA-East 2014 Committee http://lopsa-east.org/2014 Register today!

March 24, 2014

Early Bird Discount Reminder! LOPSA-East SysAdmin Conference, May 2-3 2014, New Brunswick, NJ

by Evan Pettrey

Greetings! Just a reminder to everybody that the Early Bird Discount to LOPSA-East 2014 registrations ends on Sunday, March 23rd at 11:59pm - Register now before it's too late! http://lopsa-east.org/2014/register-for-lopsa-east-14 LOPSA-East is a regional sysadmin conference in New Brunswick NJ, May 2-3, 2014. Two days of world-class training on a diverse range of topics plus community-selected talks on everything from Active Directory to Code Review for Sys Admins! We have a very exciting lineup of tutorials and talks this year, you can find all of the exciting content at: http://lopsa-east.org/2014/schedule/ Looking forward to seeing you all there! Best, Evan & the rest of the LOPSA-East 2014 Committee

March 18, 2014

OPENING - Jr SW Engineer - C, Linux kernel - direct hire in Waltham, MA

by John Spencer

Our client in Waltham, MA has a direct hire opening for a Software Engineer with 0-3 yrs of commercial design and development experience. Must be able to interview and work on-site. Our client cannot sponsor visas at this time. Jr Software Engineer Software Engineer with relevant Linux Driver experience. Responsible for design, develop and test of Linux drivers for high-speed network/communication products. Required: - BSCS/BSEE - Hands-on experience developing and interfacing with Linux drivers - Experience with Linux kernel and strong C background - Experience implementing Linux for TCP/IP Ethernet and related Please send your resume to jspencer@connectedsp (dot) com Your resume will not be sent anywhere without your prior approval Regards, John Spencer Connected Systems Partners Connecting Top Talent with Top Companies Office: 978-455-5550 x208 Cell: 978-621-9743 jspencer(a)connectedsp.com www.connectedsp.com GET CONNECTED! Unless otherwise explicitly instructed by sender, all information in this email is considered confidential and intended for the view and use of the recipient(s) only.

March 14, 2014

Re: [Wlug] HOWTO debug Ubuntu boot hang

by Randall Mason

On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 5:16 PM, John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: > > Andy> I've got a version of Ubuntu 13.10 in my Virtualbox OSE virtual > Andy> computer. It hangs very early in the boot. GRUB runs and the > Andy> boot starts. > > I've moved to Linux Mint myself, but it's based on Ubuntu and I've > noticed that my main desktop, which NFS mounts home dirs and other > stuff, takes *forever* to actually boot not. There's something in the > setup which hangs for five minutes or so (not sure, I just walk away > right now cause I rarely reboot the box...) before it continues. > > Have you just let the boot sit there to see if it ever finishes? I've > been meaning to turn on verbose debugging to try and figure out what's > going on too, but it's a low priority. I find that fstab is also often a problem. If it's waiting for /dev/sdb1 to show up, or a specific UUID. Maybe comment out anything not required for boot. Also, if you're at the console, comment out your whole /etc/network/interfaces and see if that helps. Ubuntu often waits on block devices and network, so it could be either of those. Randall Mason clashthebunny(a)gmail.com

March 14, 2014

Re: [Wlug] HOWTO debug Ubuntu boot hang

by John Stoffel

Andy> I've got a version of Ubuntu 13.10 in my Virtualbox OSE virtual Andy> computer. It hangs very early in the boot. GRUB runs and the Andy> boot starts. I've moved to Linux Mint myself, but it's based on Ubuntu and I've noticed that my main desktop, which NFS mounts home dirs and other stuff, takes *forever* to actually boot not. There's something in the setup which hangs for five minutes or so (not sure, I just walk away right now cause I rarely reboot the box...) before it continues. Have you just let the boot sit there to see if it ever finishes? I've been meaning to turn on verbose debugging to try and figure out what's going on too, but it's a low priority. Andy> In /var/log/boot.log, I see the same messages as I see on the Andy> screen. I have to press ESC to see the text while the computer Andy> boots. There are perhaps 3 or 4 "Starting <service>....OK" Andy> messages, and that is all. I never get a chance to log in. So which services start? Or more accurately, which is the last service to start? Have you looked in /var/log/upstart as well? You might be able to also setup your system so that init (upstart) is started with the -v option to increase verbosity. Andy> The problem I have is that I don't know in which order the boot Andy> scripts are supposed to run. With the "old" initscripts, one Andy> would see Snn<script> or Knn<script> and the "nn" would be the Andy> number representing the order in which the scripts are "S"tarted Andy> or "K"illed. That isn't the case here. They're supposed to run according to events, not any particular order. The idea is that as things become ready, the next step can fire off more quickly, without the system getting stuck behind some hanging process. Good luck! John P.S. Another idea might be to try and boot a default 13.10 install in another VM and see how that looks in the console. It should be similiar at least, if not fairly identical. John

March 14, 2014

Re: [Wlug] HOWTO debug Ubuntu boot hang

by Michael C Voorhis

Andy Stewart writes: > Lots of details here: > http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook > My problem seems to be something to do with networking. None of the > network related services are starting. More news later..... > Andy In FreeBSD I've run into issues with this specific problem, where DHCP runs and then netowrk dependent services start before they should. The FreeBSD folks eventually remedied the problem ("SYNCDHCP" setting for network interfaces) but my initial "fix" was to edit the network start script and add a "sleep 5" or "sleep 10" line in there allowing the networking to settle. Other cures have been to insert a ping or a dig call which must succeed, before allowing the boot process to continue. MCV.

March 14, 2014

Re: [Wlug] HOWTO debug Ubuntu boot hang

by Andy Stewart

Lots of details here: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook My problem seems to be something to do with networking. None of the network related services are starting. More news later..... Andy -- Andy Stewart (KB1OIQ) Founder: Worcester Linux Users' Group Founder: Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group President: PART of Westford, MA (WB1GOF)

March 14, 2014

Re: [Wlug] HOWTO debug Ubuntu boot hang

by Andy Stewart

On 03/13/2014 10:18 PM, Michael C Voorhis wrote: > Andy Stewart writes: >> The problem I have is that I don't know in which order the boot scripts >> are supposed to run. With the "old" initscripts, one would see >> Snn<script> or Knn<script> and the "nn" would be the number representing >> the order in which the scripts are "S"tarted or "K"illed. That isn't >> the case here. > > The manpage for systemd(1) has this tidbit: > >> --test >> Determine startup sequence, dump it and exit. This is an option >> useful for debugging only. > > That sounds like it might be useful. > > --MCV. > I'm not sure that Ubuntu is using systemd - yet. I'm running version 13.10. http://www.zdnet.com/after-linux-civil-war-ubuntu-to-adopt-systemd-70000263… I have a feeling that I need to figure out how to debug upstart, but I'm not sure. Andy -- Andy Stewart (KB1OIQ) Founder: Worcester Linux Users' Group Founder: Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group President: PART of Westford, MA (WB1GOF)

March 14, 2014

HOWTO debug Ubuntu boot hang

by Michael C Voorhis

Andy Stewart writes: > The problem I have is that I don't know in which order the boot scripts > are supposed to run. With the "old" initscripts, one would see > Snn<script> or Knn<script> and the "nn" would be the number representing > the order in which the scripts are "S"tarted or "K"illed. That isn't > the case here. The manpage for systemd(1) has this tidbit: > --test > Determine startup sequence, dump it and exit. This is an option > useful for debugging only. That sounds like it might be useful. --MCV.

March 14, 2014

HOWTO debug Ubuntu boot hang

by Andy Stewart

HI guys, I've got a version of Ubuntu 13.10 in my Virtualbox OSE virtual computer. It hangs very early in the boot. GRUB runs and the boot starts. In /var/log/boot.log, I see the same messages as I see on the screen. I have to press ESC to see the text while the computer boots. There are perhaps 3 or 4 "Starting <service>....OK" messages, and that is all. I never get a chance to log in. The problem I have is that I don't know in which order the boot scripts are supposed to run. With the "old" initscripts, one would see Snn<script> or Knn<script> and the "nn" would be the number representing the order in which the scripts are "S"tarted or "K"illed. That isn't the case here. I've found the boot scripts in /etc/init/*.conf so I can match boot messages to scripts. However, I'm unable to determine which script got stuck since I don't know the order of execution. My version of 13.10 is customized, not stock, so I can't compare to a known good. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Andy -- Andy Stewart (KB1OIQ) Founder: Worcester Linux Users' Group Founder: Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group President: PART of Westford, MA (WB1GOF)

March 14, 2014

Registration Reminder! LOPSA-East SysAdmin Conference, May 2-3 2014, New Brunswick, NJ

by Tom Limoncelli

Greetings! I just wanted to remind everybody about the awesome tutorials and talks we have lined up for LOPSA-East this year! Don't forget to register before the Early Bird pricing expires! LOPSA-East is a regional sysadmin conference in New Brunswick NJ, May 2-3, 2014. Two days of world-class training on a diverse range of topics plus community-selected talks on everything from DevOps to Time Management. You can find all the latest details available on our website: http://lopsa-east.org Register now at: http://lopsa-east.org/2014/register-for-lopsa-east-14 We'll see you there! Best, Tom, Evan, & the rest of the LOPSA-East 2014 Committee

March 13, 2014

Announce: WLUG Meeting Thu 3/13 7PM

by Chuck Anderson

Hi folks, The next Worcester Linux Users' Group (WLUG) meeting will be held tomorrow, Thursday, March 13 at 7PM. The location will be the WPI Campus Center, Mid-Centry Room 331. Thursday, March 13, 7:00 - 9:00 PM WPI Campus Center, Mid-Centry Room 331 Afterwards, we will go out for pizza. See you there, Chuck President, Worcester Linux Users' Group http://www.wlug.org/

March 12, 2014

OPENING - Software Engineer - C, Linux kernel (2+ yrs exp.) in Waltham, MA

by John Spencer

Our client in Waltham, MA has a direct hire opening for a Software Engineer with 2-6 yrs of commercial design and development experience. They will consider more Sr level engineers, up to 12 yrs of experience. Must be able to interview and work on-site. Our client cannot sponsor visas at this time. Software Engineer Software Engineer with 2+ years' relevant Linux Driver experience. Responsible for design, develop and test of Linux drivers for high-speed network/communication products. Required: - BSCS/BSEE - 2+ years' hands-on experience developing and interfacing with Linux drivers - Experience with Linux kernel and strong C background - Experience implementing Linux for TCP/IP Ethernet and related Please send your resume to jspencer@connectedsp (dot) com Your resume will not be sent anywhere without your prior approval

March 11, 2014

Re: [Wlug] Rancid and Quagga

by Frank Sweetser

Wild guess - is it using an ssh command that doesn't allocate a tty? Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu | For every problem, there is a solution that Manager of Network Operations | is simple, elegant, and wrong. Worcester Polytechnic Institute | - HL Mencken On 3/7/2014 4:16 PM, Eric Martin wrote: > Hi All, > > I recently fired up a few FreeBSD routers using Quagga, and today I went to > configure RANCID but I'm having some troubles. > > RANCID is working fine for my Juniper gear, my Cisco gear and even my APC > stuff but I can't get it to work for quagga. > > I run zrancid (for zebra stuff) and it just hangs. When you add -d you can > see that it's asking for show version and write term, but it still hangs. > When I copy / paste the commands and run them by hand with clogin, I see it > login but it just hangs after > > terminal length 0 > > When I login via ssh with the same command line that clogin passes, terminal > length 0 works fine and so do the rest of the commands. I'm stumped, does > anybody have any ideas? This however does work for my CentOS servers running > quagga. > > I'm using Quagga 0.99.22.3, and Rancid 2.3.6, which is the most recent RANCID > version on CentOS and the most recent Quagga on FreeBSD. > > ~rancid/.cloginrc: > add method *.example.net <http://example.net> ssh > add autoenable *.example.net <http://example.net> {1} > add user *.example.net <http://example.net> rancid > add password *.example.net <http://example.net> {} > (I'm using ssh keys and it's called id_rsa so that works fine). > > router.db: > ur01.example.net:zebra:up > ns1.example.net:zebra:up > > Thanks in advance, > -- > Eric Martin > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

March 8, 2014

Rancid and Quagga

by Eric Martin

Hi All, I recently fired up a few FreeBSD routers using Quagga, and today I went to configure RANCID but I'm having some troubles. RANCID is working fine for my Juniper gear, my Cisco gear and even my APC stuff but I can't get it to work for quagga. I run zrancid (for zebra stuff) and it just hangs. When you add -d you can see that it's asking for show version and write term, but it still hangs. When I copy / paste the commands and run them by hand with clogin, I see it login but it just hangs after terminal length 0 When I login via ssh with the same command line that clogin passes, terminal length 0 works fine and so do the rest of the commands. I'm stumped, does anybody have any ideas? This however does work for my CentOS servers running quagga. I'm using Quagga 0.99.22.3, and Rancid 2.3.6, which is the most recent RANCID version on CentOS and the most recent Quagga on FreeBSD. ~rancid/.cloginrc: add method *.example.net ssh add autoenable *.example.net {1} add user *.example.net rancid add password *.example.net {} (I'm using ssh keys and it's called id_rsa so that works fine). router.db: ur01.example.net:zebra:up ns1.example.net:zebra:up Thanks in advance, -- Eric Martin

March 7, 2014

Re: [Wlug] Great speaker on UX design next Thursday

by Caleb Stepanian

I've now acquired a ride. Cal On 2 March 2014 15:07, Caleb Stepanian <cmstepanian(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > Anyone going to this that I could please carpool with (I live in Faraday > Hall on WPI campus)? I do enjoy walking, but a 4 mile round trip at night > sounds unfun. > > Cal > > > On 2 March 2014 14:01, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > >> I HIGHLY recommend going to this. I've seen Jared Spool speak awhile >> ago and was blown away. I'll probably go this Thursday. >> >> Original message translated for non-HTML/non-graphical mail readers: >> >> Sponsored by the Assumption College Mathematics and Computer Science >> Department >> >> Jared M. Spool >> >> Thursday, March 6, 2014, 7:00 PM >> Alden Trust Auditorium (Kennedy 112) >> >> A MUST SEE FOR MAJORS IN: >> Business >> Communications >> Computer Science >> Graphic Design >> Any major that uses a computer! >> >> Experience Design /is/ a competitive advantage and you need that >> advantage now. >> >> Founder of User Interface Engineering, the largest usability research >> organization of its kind in the world. >> >> Author of "Web Usability: A Designer's Guide" >> >> Co-author of "Web Anatomy: Interaction Design Frameworks that Work" >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 09:49:18PM -0500, Dick Goodman wrote: >> > Jared Spool is a dynamic speaker, and anyone interested in software >> > design ought to hear him. >> > >> > Disclaimers: >> > >> > 1) My wife is responsible for bringing him to Worcester for this >> > talk >> > >> > 2) I gave Jared his first tech job -- about 35 years ago >> _______________________________________________ >> Wlug mailing list >> Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org >> http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >> > >

March 4, 2014

Re: [Wlug] Great speaker on UX design next Thursday

by Caleb Stepanian

Anyone going to this that I could please carpool with (I live in Faraday Hall on WPI campus)? I do enjoy walking, but a 4 mile round trip at night sounds unfun. Cal On 2 March 2014 14:01, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > I HIGHLY recommend going to this. I've seen Jared Spool speak awhile > ago and was blown away. I'll probably go this Thursday. > > Original message translated for non-HTML/non-graphical mail readers: > > Sponsored by the Assumption College Mathematics and Computer Science > Department > > Jared M. Spool > > Thursday, March 6, 2014, 7:00 PM > Alden Trust Auditorium (Kennedy 112) > > A MUST SEE FOR MAJORS IN: > Business > Communications > Computer Science > Graphic Design > Any major that uses a computer! > > Experience Design /is/ a competitive advantage and you need that > advantage now. > > Founder of User Interface Engineering, the largest usability research > organization of its kind in the world. > > Author of "Web Usability: A Designer's Guide" > > Co-author of "Web Anatomy: Interaction Design Frameworks that Work" > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 09:49:18PM -0500, Dick Goodman wrote: > > Jared Spool is a dynamic speaker, and anyone interested in software > > design ought to hear him. > > > > Disclaimers: > > > > 1) My wife is responsible for bringing him to Worcester for this > > talk > > > > 2) I gave Jared his first tech job -- about 35 years ago > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

March 2, 2014