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Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by Walt

Take a close look at the capacitors on the motherboard. If they are bulging you can either replace them or the whole board. Walt On 10/11/2012 10:30 AM, John Stoffel wrote: >>>>>> "Brett" == Brett Russ<bruss(a)alum.wpi.edu> writes: > > Brett> Yes, I've done that several times. In fact, since my BIOS is > Brett> having issues preserving settings and shows the CMOS checksum > Brett> failure quite often, I usually have to revert to defaults just > Brett> to boot. This, despite a brand new CMOS battery. This is the > Brett> other symptom in my original email that I can't yet explain. > Brett> But, if it ends up being a motherboard HW issue, then anything > Brett> could go wrong including corrupted CMOS. > > This points more to a low level hardware issue in the motherboard, or > possibly the CPU. Hard to know. If it's old enough, it might be time > to just replace it. > > John > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

Oct. 11, 2012

Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Brett" == Brett Russ <bruss(a)alum.wpi.edu> writes: Brett> Yes, I've done that several times. In fact, since my BIOS is Brett> having issues preserving settings and shows the CMOS checksum Brett> failure quite often, I usually have to revert to defaults just Brett> to boot. This, despite a brand new CMOS battery. This is the Brett> other symptom in my original email that I can't yet explain. Brett> But, if it ends up being a motherboard HW issue, then anything Brett> could go wrong including corrupted CMOS. This points more to a low level hardware issue in the motherboard, or possibly the CPU. Hard to know. If it's old enough, it might be time to just replace it. John

Oct. 11, 2012

Re: [Wlug] I presume we're meeting the 10th of Oct?

by Frank Sweetser

I'm almost there now, we'll see what's going on Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote: >I'm standing outside of Higgins 230 and its's full of people... None >of which look like they're here for wlug... > >On 10/9/12, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: >> I reserved Higgins Labs 230 again, same place as last month. >> >> On Mon, Oct 08, 2012 at 04:41:23PM -0400, Tim Keller wrote: >>> Chuck, >>> >>> Where will this meeting be held? My current demo setup is two pcs... >>> I'm probably going to need help depending on where we have it. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tim. >>> >>> On 10/5/12, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: >>> > Sounds great! >>> > >>> > On Fri, Oct 05, 2012 at 11:01:24AM -0400, Tim Keller wrote: >>> >> That's a great idea. I do lots and lots of virtualization >stuff.. I'd >>> >> be >>> >> willing to do some research, setup a demo and do a talk about >>> >> OpenStack. >>> >> >>> >> Chuck, what do you think? >>> >> >>> >> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 9:19 PM, David Glaser >>> >> <dglaser(a)glaserresearch.net>wrote: >>> >> >>> >> > How about the cloud -say OpenStack. I see references to it. >>> >> > >>> >> > -David >>> >> > On 10/04/2012 03:38 PM, Tim Keller wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> > Hey Gang! >>> >> > >>> >> > I presume we're having a meeting on the 10th? Does anybody >have a >>> >> > topic/idea? >>> >> > >>> >> > Thanks, >>> >> > Tim. >> _______________________________________________ >> Wlug mailing list >> Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org >> http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >> > >-- >Sent from my mobile device > >I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >constituents as "consumers". >_______________________________________________ >Wlug mailing list >Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org >http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Oct. 10, 2012

Re: [Wlug] I presume we're meeting the 10th of Oct?

by Tim Keller

I'm standing outside of Higgins 230 and its's full of people... None of which look like they're here for wlug... On 10/9/12, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > I reserved Higgins Labs 230 again, same place as last month. > > On Mon, Oct 08, 2012 at 04:41:23PM -0400, Tim Keller wrote: >> Chuck, >> >> Where will this meeting be held? My current demo setup is two pcs... >> I'm probably going to need help depending on where we have it. >> >> Thanks, >> Tim. >> >> On 10/5/12, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: >> > Sounds great! >> > >> > On Fri, Oct 05, 2012 at 11:01:24AM -0400, Tim Keller wrote: >> >> That's a great idea. I do lots and lots of virtualization stuff.. I'd >> >> be >> >> willing to do some research, setup a demo and do a talk about >> >> OpenStack. >> >> >> >> Chuck, what do you think? >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 9:19 PM, David Glaser >> >> <dglaser(a)glaserresearch.net>wrote: >> >> >> >> > How about the cloud -say OpenStack. I see references to it. >> >> > >> >> > -David >> >> > On 10/04/2012 03:38 PM, Tim Keller wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Hey Gang! >> >> > >> >> > I presume we're having a meeting on the 10th? Does anybody have a >> >> > topic/idea? >> >> > >> >> > Thanks, >> >> > Tim. > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > -- Sent from my mobile device I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Oct. 10, 2012

Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by Brett Russ

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 4:58 PM, John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: > Actually, I'd also go into the BIOS and reset it to the manufacturers > defaults, just in case you made a change at some point to tweak > settings for more performance, etc. I.E. make sure there's no > overclocking or anything like that. Yes, I've done that several times. In fact, since my BIOS is having issues preserving settings and shows the CMOS checksum failure quite often, I usually have to revert to defaults just to boot. This, despite a brand new CMOS battery. This is the other symptom in my original email that I can't yet explain. But, if it ends up being a motherboard HW issue, then anything could go wrong including corrupted CMOS. thanks, Brett

Oct. 10, 2012

Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by John Stoffel

Brett> I will double check later tonight the completely bare motherboard Brett> (with CPU and at least one DIMM, of course) to see if I can repro Brett> again in this state. I'll check for any LEDs and flashing patterns. Actually, I'd also go into the BIOS and reset it to the manufacturers defaults, just in case you made a change at some point to tweak settings for more performance, etc. I.E. make sure there's no overclocking or anything like that. Good luck! John

Oct. 10, 2012

Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by Brett Russ

All, I'll try to address everyone's responses at once. In short, it's nothing to do with the OS because the problem is quite simply a failure for the BIOS to complete POST, and quite often at that. As I mentioned I've already repro'd the problem with everything (which means a video card and all SATA devices and all USB devices b/c everything else is onboard) unplugged. This is why I suspect the HW. The next step is, as someone suggested, monitoring motherboard LEDs, although I haven't seen much here yet. There is no beep pattern when things fail. There is, apparently, a beep at end of POST, which I don't hear when the problem repro's, which indicates to me that I'm stuck in POST somewhere. I will double check later tonight the completely bare motherboard (with CPU and at least one DIMM, of course) to see if I can repro again in this state. I'll check for any LEDs and flashing patterns. Lastly, I'll manually disable through BIOS menu as many devices as I can and hope that the settings stick across reboot (I'd mentioned some problems in this department in my original email). Even then I'm not sure if the BIOS will still include these devices in POST (I'd expect it might) and then just disable them before proceeding to boot the OS. Thanks for the help all! Brett

Oct. 10, 2012

Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by David P. Connell

My apologies for excess (here and previous posts). I should have re-read the original post more clearly. Still, I hope I may have sparked a thought along the chain of diagnosis. Good luck. -- David P. Connell "Watch where you're going; remember where you've been."

Oct. 10, 2012

Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by David P. Connell

I agree with running a liveCD OS to test for software issues. Almost always do that to draw the line between software and hardware issues. Try Puppy Linux, if only because of the fast download, cute name, and it is of course, useful as well. SystemRescueCD too. And, to clarify about "fickle memory" - I meant running tests on memory can be tricky, as was mentioned by another individual. Still sounds like it could be spiking power and then lagging power in the supply circuit on the motherboard. Could be a single capacitor or (sadly) impossible to find economically. I hope it is something simple though, like the NIC idea, although those are usually onboard nowadays and a bad IC or circuit there may remain a problem even if not being used. You could try the same idea as our friend suggested of removing peripherals and adding them back by doing something similar in the bios by disabling all nonessential items. Turn off the NIC, the serial port, if applicable, etc. One thing I wasn't sure of: have you tried a different video card? You mentioned replacing the failed monitor in the original post. I always try to go back to previous failures and changes to trace current problems. It may be possible that some sort of power spike during the failure of that old monitor caused an intermittent (or pending) issue in your video card that is now showing up in your system. Since the video subsystem is such a 'major' part of the way we use computers these days and also very tightly bound to the power system and power requirements in a lot of instances, I would at least check it out. DaveC On 10/10/2012 1:24 PM, David P. Connell wrote: > How about the power capacitors and/or ic's on the board itself (as > opposed the the power supply)? I have to admit, that is the first thing > that came to my mind after reading the first few posts. I'm surprised > nobody else went there. Of course, memory is a fickle thing and it > still could be that, but I am feeling that it is something else. > > DaveC > > > On 10/8/2012 11:30 PM, Brett Russ wrote: >> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 7:57 AM, Brett Russ <bruss(a)alum.wpi.edu> wrote: >>> On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: >>>> I agree that the power supply is suspect. You can measure the voltage >>>> Alternatively, it may be easier to just try a replacement. >>> I have a new one on the way. I'll reply here with the results. >> Well, brand new power supply and the system behaves the same >> problematic way as before. >> >> So next try is the memory, as another list reply suggested. I've had >> memtest86 running against both DIMMs for 47+ hours and counting, 70 >> total passes so far, and 0 errors. Remember I'd already tried >> removing first one DIMM, then the other, and the problem repro'd >> either way. So by these measures it'd seem the memory is OK? I know >> some mem problems take days to show up so I'll just leave this running >> for a couple more days anyway. >> >> Not much more I can do here, as I've seen repros with most everything >> else unplugged so I'm now thinking it must be the motherboard. >> Perhaps I will try reseating the CPU--haven't done that yet. >> >> Recall the system is having trouble POST'ing: it hangs at various >> points before BIOS POST completes, i.e. I don't get a confirming >> 'beep' at end of POST and in some cases the monitor won't wake, other >> cases the BIOS splash screen stays splashed, etc. The full original >> email is here: >> http://mail.wlug.org/pipermail/wlug/2012-September/008059.html >> >> Anyway, if anyone has other ideas here I'd welcome them. >> >> Thanks again, >> Brett >> _______________________________________________ >> Wlug mailing list >> Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org >> http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >> > -- David P. Connell "Watch where you're going; remember where you've been."

Oct. 10, 2012

Re: [Wlug] help diagnosing PC issue: suspect power supply

by David P. Connell

How about the power capacitors and/or ic's on the board itself (as opposed the the power supply)? I have to admit, that is the first thing that came to my mind after reading the first few posts. I'm surprised nobody else went there. Of course, memory is a fickle thing and it still could be that, but I am feeling that it is something else. DaveC On 10/8/2012 11:30 PM, Brett Russ wrote: > On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 7:57 AM, Brett Russ <bruss(a)alum.wpi.edu> wrote: >> On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: >>> I agree that the power supply is suspect. You can measure the voltage >>> Alternatively, it may be easier to just try a replacement. >> I have a new one on the way. I'll reply here with the results. > Well, brand new power supply and the system behaves the same > problematic way as before. > > So next try is the memory, as another list reply suggested. I've had > memtest86 running against both DIMMs for 47+ hours and counting, 70 > total passes so far, and 0 errors. Remember I'd already tried > removing first one DIMM, then the other, and the problem repro'd > either way. So by these measures it'd seem the memory is OK? I know > some mem problems take days to show up so I'll just leave this running > for a couple more days anyway. > > Not much more I can do here, as I've seen repros with most everything > else unplugged so I'm now thinking it must be the motherboard. > Perhaps I will try reseating the CPU--haven't done that yet. > > Recall the system is having trouble POST'ing: it hangs at various > points before BIOS POST completes, i.e. I don't get a confirming > 'beep' at end of POST and in some cases the monitor won't wake, other > cases the BIOS splash screen stays splashed, etc. The full original > email is here: > http://mail.wlug.org/pipermail/wlug/2012-September/008059.html > > Anyway, if anyone has other ideas here I'd welcome them. > > Thanks again, > Brett > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > -- David P. Connell "Watch where you're going; remember where you've been."

Oct. 10, 2012