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Re: Uptime!

by THE HAMMER

So I guess my question is if I'm just running a personal Linux machine at home, what are the advantages or disadvantages to keeping it on, or shutting down during non-use? -Ron (I might in the near future use one machine as a home server to share files, so in that case see an advantage to possibly keeping it on 24/7) ________________________________ From: Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2022 5:07 PM To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Cc: Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> Subject: [WLUG] Uptime! I just shutdown a linux machine with 3169 days of uptime! It had userland processes that have been actively running since 2013! Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

April 21, 2022

Re: Uptime!

by Mike Peckar

Fun Story, Maddog. Around 20 yrs ago I was consulting for Bloomberg in Skillman, NJ, a big Solaris shop. The HP app I was working with bellied up with memory leaks and I suggested they reboot that server. I was told flat out they don't reboot Solaris servers period. They cleaned up the mess and isolated where in the HP code that the pointer was lost, leaving me the not-so-fun task of filing the bug report with HP. Mike On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 7:39 PM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Tim, > > What was the reason for shutting it down? > > This reminds me of a story from years ago where a young friend contacted > me before a trip to the University of New Hampshire for a Linux LUG meeting. > > He asked me if I would go to a particular dorm and knock on the door of > what had been his door room. I was to ask if I could unplug the box that > was in the corner of the closet in the room. The system had been running > for five years in his former dorm room and he had forgotten the login > password. He did not want the machine back, just wanted it unplugged. > > A young woman answered the door, heard my explanation and let me unplug > the machine. "We were afraid to unplug it" she said. > > Your machine beat his machine on uptime. > > md > > On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 5:07 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> I just shutdown a linux machine with 3169 days of uptime! >> It had userland processes that have been actively running since 2013! >> Tim. >> >> -- >> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >> constituents as "consumers". >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/PW3ML… >> > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/KSUVD… >

April 21, 2022

Re: Uptime!

by Jon "maddog" Hall

Tim, What was the reason for shutting it down? This reminds me of a story from years ago where a young friend contacted me before a trip to the University of New Hampshire for a Linux LUG meeting. He asked me if I would go to a particular dorm and knock on the door of what had been his door room. I was to ask if I could unplug the box that was in the corner of the closet in the room. The system had been running for five years in his former dorm room and he had forgotten the login password. He did not want the machine back, just wanted it unplugged. A young woman answered the door, heard my explanation and let me unplug the machine. "We were afraid to unplug it" she said. Your machine beat his machine on uptime. md On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 5:07 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I just shutdown a linux machine with 3169 days of uptime! > It had userland processes that have been actively running since 2013! > Tim. > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/PW3ML… >

April 20, 2022

Uptime!

by Tim Keller

I just shutdown a linux machine with 3169 days of uptime! It had userland processes that have been actively running since 2013! Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

April 20, 2022

Reminder! WLUG tonight! Hudson Public Library! Topic: Fotoxx!

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody, This is the final reminder we've got a meeting tonight at 7pm! The speaker is going to be Dick Miller! He's going to be talking about Fotoxx! Fotoxx is an open source professional grade photo editing and collection manager! I hope to see you at the Hudson Public Library or online in our Jitsi Room! Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

April 14, 2022

Re: Atlassian outage

by Tim Keller

It makes me think that what they're using for "backups" are actually snapshots of volumes.. But if you purge that volume, you purge the snapshots with it.. As for people getting fired..Eh, nobody inadvertently got feed into an industrial grinding machine because someone turned off all the safeties. People are just unable to look at the jira kanban boards.. Ironically the people who caused this are likely the ones most likely to fix it. I once wiped out 20TB+ of production data. I could go into all the gory details, but to say I deleted a bunch of poorly labeled volumes on a SAN. All the same I did delete the data.. and I then had to fix the mistake and part of the process was me writing up a full incident report and a RCA. This looks like it was a major breakdown in process control and testing. This is *exactly* why there are pre-prod testing environments that are cloned from real data.. so when your script that was supposed to expand your EBS volumes does so by first destroying them and then creating them larger you find that out. I'm suspecting this is going to be part of the lively conversation tonight! Later, Tim. On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 4:00 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: > >>>>> "Jared" == Jared Greenwald via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > Jared> At least they're owning the mistake, which is something I guess... > Jared> https://www.atlassian.com/engineering/april-2022-outage-update > > I want people to carefully reade these four paragraphs and ask > themselves, what is the difference between restoring one customer > quickly using a well tested process, and restoring 400 customers? > > We also maintain immutable backups that are designed to be resilient > against data corruption events, which enable recovery to a previous > point in time. Backups are retained for 30 days, and Atlassian > continuously tests and audits storage backups for restoration. > > Using these backups, we regularly roll-back individual customers or a > small set of customers who accidentally delete their own data. And, if > required, we can restore all customers at once into a new environment. > > What we have not (yet) automated is restoring a large subset of > customers into our existing (and currently in use) environment without > affecting any of our other customers. > > Within our cloud environment, each data store contains data from > multiple customers. Because the data deleted in this incident was only > a portion of data stores that are continuing to be used by other > customers, we have to manually extract and restore individual pieces > from our backups. Each customer site recovery is a lengthy and complex > process, requiring internal validation and final customer verification > when the site is restored. > > > These paragraphs are carefully written to imply one things, but show > that they have no system in place for proper rollbacks when an entire > customer gets purged. I suspect that their "nuke it all from orbit" > script *also* nuked the immutable backups as well, which is why this > is all taking so long to restore. > > I do hope the people who messed up are fired, and if anyone is fired > it's the managers who set up this debacle. > > John > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

April 14, 2022

Re: Atlassian outage

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Jared" == Jared Greenwald via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: Jared> At least they're owning the mistake, which is something I guess... Jared> https://www.atlassian.com/engineering/april-2022-outage-update I want people to carefully reade these four paragraphs and ask themselves, what is the difference between restoring one customer quickly using a well tested process, and restoring 400 customers? We also maintain immutable backups that are designed to be resilient against data corruption events, which enable recovery to a previous point in time. Backups are retained for 30 days, and Atlassian continuously tests and audits storage backups for restoration. Using these backups, we regularly roll-back individual customers or a small set of customers who accidentally delete their own data. And, if required, we can restore all customers at once into a new environment. What we have not (yet) automated is restoring a large subset of customers into our existing (and currently in use) environment without affecting any of our other customers. Within our cloud environment, each data store contains data from multiple customers. Because the data deleted in this incident was only a portion of data stores that are continuing to be used by other customers, we have to manually extract and restore individual pieces from our backups. Each customer site recovery is a lengthy and complex process, requiring internal validation and final customer verification when the site is restored. These paragraphs are carefully written to imply one things, but show that they have no system in place for proper rollbacks when an entire customer gets purged. I suspect that their "nuke it all from orbit" script *also* nuked the immutable backups as well, which is why this is all taking so long to restore. I do hope the people who messed up are fired, and if anyone is fired it's the managers who set up this debacle. John

April 13, 2022

Re: Atlassian outage

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: Tim> What do people of the crazy atlassian outage? They're talking Tim> about some customers still being offline for two weeks! Live by the cloud, die by the cloud... I think they seriously screwed up, which goes to show you the programming is 10% the work to be done, and 900% error, bounds and exception handling. All of which computers do poorly, but which we humans do reasonably well. But we're *slow* and the cloud is all about speed. In this case, it also shows that Atlassian's DR practices were crap in a major way. And if I was self hosting it internally, and knew that I was being forced to the cloud... I'd be yelling like hell at my sales rep and working to get off Atlassian products. The cloud has some advantages, and is lovely if you have a work load that scales horizontally really well, and which also bursts up in terms of performance need. But when you have a fairly static demand, it's maybe not the best thing to do. But ... the cloud sells itself on doing all those hard things well, like redundancy, resiliency, durability, etc. dual feed UPS, tested generators, reliable AC systems, etc. All the things a good Co-Lo or self hosted people handle to some level of execution. The cloud should (ideally) have all this down to a T. But ... when it doesn't, all hell breaks loose. John

April 13, 2022

Re: Atlassian outage

by Jared Greenwald

At least they're owning the mistake, which is something I guess... https://www.atlassian.com/engineering/april-2022-outage-update On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 11:54 AM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I consider a "faulty script" as the worst type of cyber attack. > > As a friend of one once famously said "I will replace you with a very > small shell script" > > They even made a T-shirt out of it. > > > https://www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/3810999-go-away-or-i-will-replace-you-wit… > > md > > On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 11:25 AM Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> While they're claiming it's not a cyber crime thing, it looks like a >> single person was able to do this with a faulty script.. that in itself is >> a bit distressing. >> >> It sounds like they've got a serious process problem. >> Tim. >> >> On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 10:54 AM Jon "maddog" Hall < >> jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >What do people of the crazy atlassian outage? >>> >They're talking about some customers still being offline for two weeks! >>> >>> With Easter approaching I might call it "All your eggs in one basket", >>> and no matter how strong, big and well built that basket is we never can be >>> sure there is not an Easter Egg hiding in there, waiting for us. Although >>> Atlassian states it was not a Cyber Security issue, rom a Cyber Security >>> standpoint I will also point out that there are more and more foxes trying >>> to get at the henhouse. >>> >>> md >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 10:43 AM Tim Keller via WLUG < >>> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >>> >>>> What do people of the crazy atlassian outage? >>>> They're talking about some customers still being offline for two weeks! >>>> >>>> Later, >>>> Tim. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >>>> constituents as "consumers". >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>> Change Settings: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>> Web Forum/Archive: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/AWD5H… >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >> constituents as "consumers". >> > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/26PO4… >

April 13, 2022

Re: Atlassian outage

by Jon "maddog" Hall

I consider a "faulty script" as the worst type of cyber attack. As a friend of one once famously said "I will replace you with a very small shell script" They even made a T-shirt out of it. https://www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/3810999-go-away-or-i-will-replace-you-wit… md On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 11:25 AM Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote: > While they're claiming it's not a cyber crime thing, it looks like a > single person was able to do this with a faulty script.. that in itself is > a bit distressing. > > It sounds like they've got a serious process problem. > Tim. > > On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 10:54 AM Jon "maddog" Hall < > jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >What do people of the crazy atlassian outage? >> >They're talking about some customers still being offline for two weeks! >> >> With Easter approaching I might call it "All your eggs in one basket", >> and no matter how strong, big and well built that basket is we never can be >> sure there is not an Easter Egg hiding in there, waiting for us. Although >> Atlassian states it was not a Cyber Security issue, rom a Cyber Security >> standpoint I will also point out that there are more and more foxes trying >> to get at the henhouse. >> >> md >> >> On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 10:43 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >> wrote: >> >>> What do people of the crazy atlassian outage? >>> They're talking about some customers still being offline for two weeks! >>> >>> Later, >>> Tim. >>> >>> -- >>> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >>> constituents as "consumers". >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/AWD5H… >>> >> > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". >

April 13, 2022