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Re: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's

by Charles R . Anderson

On Tue, Nov 27, 2001 at 02:10:53PM -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote: vapier> i dont know about the 'performance problems' you speak of vapier> when using PPPoE + NAT ... im running 2 linux boxes as routers vapier> on verizon DSL and both get a constant 60kB (which is what vapier> the cap is for my price package). each box does NAT for vapier> 4-5 people, and each has hit 40+days of uptime w/out any vapier> 'performance problems' ... vapier> -mike PPPoE's MTU is 1492 bytes due to the extra PPP header in the Ethernet frame. Hosts sitting behind a NAT will not know of this reduced MTU and still send IP packets that fill up the Ethernet frames up to a maximum size of 1500 bytes. (WinPoET reduces the MTU for the local machine where it is installed.) When the NAT tries to forward these packets, they will need to be fragmented at the point where they enter the PPPoE link. This causes reduced performance, and in some circumstances can cause packets to be dropped on the floor. Normally, Path MTU discovery should take care of discovering the minimum MTU on the complete path from the source to the destination, but many incorrectly configured routers/firewalls on the Internet drop all ICMP traffic, causing mysterious connectivity loss to destinations behind these broken firewalls due to the failure of the Path MTU to work correctly. You could work around this problem by changing the MTU on all your boxes behind the NAT/PPPoE (this involves changing a registry key on Windows), or by using a hack that "clamps" the TCP MSS (Maximum Segment Size) at the NAT. rp-pppoe, for example, has a built-in feature that does this clamping. Older pppoe packages for Linux used a kernel module called mssclampfw to do the clamping. This clamping only works for TCP, though. If you can live with the limitations and hacks required for PPPoE and NAT, fine. I prefer a "real" connection to the internet. -- Charles R. Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> / http://angus.ind.wpi.edu/~cra/ PGP Key ID: 49BB5886 Fingerprint: EBA3 A106 7C93 FA07 8E15 3AC2 C367 A0F9 49BB 5886

Nov. 27, 2001

Re: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's

by Mike Frysinger

i dont know about the 'performance problems' you speak of when using PPPoE + NAT ... im running 2 linux boxes as routers on verizon DSL and both get a constant 60kB (which is what the cap is for my price package). each box does NAT for 4-5 people, and each has hit 40+days of uptime w/out any 'performance problems' ... -mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles R . Anderson" <cra(a)WPI.EDU> To: <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's > On Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 10:26:15AM -0500, Keller, Tim wrote: > Tim.Keller> I've had really good luck with Verizon DSL (get about 70-80k a second + no > Tim.Keller> down time). In Worcester you might want to check out Speakeasy. A couple > Tim.Keller> people in WLUG use them and are happy. > > Yuck. Verizon uses PPPoE, a broken-by-design protocol (sort of like > PPTP, which is also broken by design). You will have performance > problems if you try to use NAT with PPPoE due to the reduced MTU. > > I also highly recommend Speakeasy. They are best-of-breed as far as DSL > companies go. > > -- > Charles R. Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> / http://angus.ind.wpi.edu/~cra/ > PGP Key ID: 49BB5886 > Fingerprint: EBA3 A106 7C93 FA07 8E15 3AC2 C367 A0F9 49BB 5886 > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

Nov. 27, 2001

Re: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's

by Rodrigo Gomes

Thanks for the help guys!!! I think I'll sign up for speakeasy, is looking good. Once again, tkz! Rod. -----Original Message----- From: "Rodrigo Gomes" <gomes_k(a)dr.com> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:26:36 +0800 To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org Subject: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's > Hey there, > I'm looking for a Cable or a DSL ISP's in Worcester (June Street). I've had a chance to see my brother's AOL PLUS DSL, and it sucks. I also tried to contact Charter to install pipeline, but they never answer the e-mail. If someone knows a good ISP, let me know! > > Thanks. > Rod. > -- > > _______________________________________________ > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup > > > 1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.! > > http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJ&url=http:/… > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup 1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.! http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJ&url=http:/…

Nov. 26, 2001

RE: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's

by Hemstreet, Jeffrey

I have Charter in Holden, and it's been excellent. I would call them though... it still takes about 10 minutes to get through, but I have only had to call them once with a problem in the past year. The speed & reliability are great, but the phone/service are pretty slow. jeff -----Original Message----- From: Rodrigo Gomes [mailto:gomes_k@dr.com] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 10:27 AM To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org Subject: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's Hey there, I'm looking for a Cable or a DSL ISP's in Worcester (June Street). I've had a chance to see my brother's AOL PLUS DSL, and it sucks. I also tried to contact Charter to install pipeline, but they never answer the e-mail. If someone knows a good ISP, let me know! Thanks. Rod. -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup 1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.! http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJ&url=http:// www.getpennytalk.com _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Nov. 26, 2001

RE: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's

by dibb_jim＠emc.com

I agree with Tim. PPPoE is a pain, but if you have a router (Linksys Befsr41) it's essentially transparent except for maybe a few % performance. Still great compared to 56k. -----Original Message----- From: Keller, Tim [mailto:Tim.Keller@stratus.com] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 11:17 AM To: 'wlug(a)mail.wlug.org' Subject: RE: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's Hey, when my point of reference was a 56k modem that got a sustained throughput of 5kb a second, crappy DSL will always be better than great modem service. I agree that the PPPoE stuff is crap. As for the NAT stuff, I'm using a netgear RP114 that provides DHCP/NAT/PPPoE plus it does port forwarding of ssh to my linux box and I'm yet to have a problem. Though as always, don't call the tech support, you'd have better luck jabbing a chopstick in your eye. As for Clint's comment, my parents have charter and haven't had a problem except that now everybody has charter in the neighborhood it gets useless from around 7pm to 9pm. So its stable, but the speed fluctuates greatly. Tim. -----Original Message----- From: Charles R . Anderson [mailto:cra@WPI.EDU] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 11:00 AM To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org Subject: Re: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's On Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 10:26:15AM -0500, Keller, Tim wrote: Tim.Keller> I've had really good luck with Verizon DSL (get about 70-80k a second + no Tim.Keller> down time). In Worcester you might want to check out Speakeasy. A couple Tim.Keller> people in WLUG use them and are happy. Yuck. Verizon uses PPPoE, a broken-by-design protocol (sort of like PPTP, which is also broken by design). You will have performance problems if you try to use NAT with PPPoE due to the reduced MTU. I also highly recommend Speakeasy. They are best-of-breed as far as DSL companies go. -- Charles R. Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> / http://angus.ind.wpi.edu/~cra/ PGP Key ID: 49BB5886 Fingerprint: EBA3 A106 7C93 FA07 8E15 3AC2 C367 A0F9 49BB 5886 _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Nov. 26, 2001

RE: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's

by webmaster

Hello, Charter has been good.. in the last year I've had only one major outage. The 3Com modem was no good, I purchased the modem instead of "renting" one.. they replaced it for free with a new Motorola modem! As others has said.. e-mail customer service is non-existant. On the phone.. I never waited long. Must have been lucky on that! Speed.. has been good, I haven't seen any problems. The one problem I do have is the TOS doesn't allow servers of any kind, if you want that, you need a business account. Charter also blocks port 80 (http) now. Rob rmahlert(a)charter.net webmaster(a)atari-users.net

Nov. 26, 2001

RE: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's

by Keller, Tim

Hey, when my point of reference was a 56k modem that got a sustained throughput of 5kb a second, crappy DSL will always be better than great modem service. I agree that the PPPoE stuff is crap. As for the NAT stuff, I'm using a netgear RP114 that provides DHCP/NAT/PPPoE plus it does port forwarding of ssh to my linux box and I'm yet to have a problem. Though as always, don't call the tech support, you'd have better luck jabbing a chopstick in your eye. As for Clint's comment, my parents have charter and haven't had a problem except that now everybody has charter in the neighborhood it gets useless from around 7pm to 9pm. So its stable, but the speed fluctuates greatly. Tim. -----Original Message----- From: Charles R . Anderson [mailto:cra@WPI.EDU] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 11:00 AM To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org Subject: Re: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's On Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 10:26:15AM -0500, Keller, Tim wrote: Tim.Keller> I've had really good luck with Verizon DSL (get about 70-80k a second + no Tim.Keller> down time). In Worcester you might want to check out Speakeasy. A couple Tim.Keller> people in WLUG use them and are happy. Yuck. Verizon uses PPPoE, a broken-by-design protocol (sort of like PPTP, which is also broken by design). You will have performance problems if you try to use NAT with PPPoE due to the reduced MTU. I also highly recommend Speakeasy. They are best-of-breed as far as DSL companies go. -- Charles R. Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> / http://angus.ind.wpi.edu/~cra/ PGP Key ID: 49BB5886 Fingerprint: EBA3 A106 7C93 FA07 8E15 3AC2 C367 A0F9 49BB 5886 _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Nov. 26, 2001

RE: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's

by Clint Moyer

I've had zero problems with Charter for a year now. But you will need to call not email them. The installer is likely to be Linux-illiterate, so let him hook up to a Win* box initially then set up your own config later. I'd also be leery of letting him install a NIC. Make sure you've done that beforehand. -----Original Message----- From: wlug-admin(a)mail.wlug.org [mailto:wlug-admin@mail.wlug.org]On Behalf Of dibb_jim(a)emc.com Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 10:58 AM To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org Subject: RE: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's Verizon got a lot of bad press (probably deserved) but for the past 8 months at least my service in Framingham has been very solid. The news servers are so slow as to be almost useless and there's a funny restriction about what domain must be used to send e-mail, but neither of those really affect me. Check out http://www.dslreports.com for tons of info on dsl. -----Original Message----- From: Keller, Tim [mailto:Tim.Keller@stratus.com] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 10:26 AM To: 'wlug(a)mail.wlug.org' Subject: RE: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's I've had really good luck with Verizon DSL (get about 70-80k a second + no down time). In Worcester you might want to check out Speakeasy. A couple people in WLUG use them and are happy. Tim. -----Original Message----- From: Rodrigo Gomes [mailto:gomes_k@dr.com] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 10:27 AM To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org Subject: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's Hey there, I'm looking for a Cable or a DSL ISP's in Worcester (June Street). I've had a chance to see my brother's AOL PLUS DSL, and it sucks. I also tried to contact Charter to install pipeline, but they never answer the e-mail. If someone knows a good ISP, let me know! Thanks. Rod. -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup 1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.! http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJ&url=http:// www.getpennytalk.com _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Nov. 26, 2001

Re: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's

by Charles R . Anderson

On Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 10:26:15AM -0500, Keller, Tim wrote: Tim.Keller> I've had really good luck with Verizon DSL (get about 70-80k a second + no Tim.Keller> down time). In Worcester you might want to check out Speakeasy. A couple Tim.Keller> people in WLUG use them and are happy. Yuck. Verizon uses PPPoE, a broken-by-design protocol (sort of like PPTP, which is also broken by design). You will have performance problems if you try to use NAT with PPPoE due to the reduced MTU. I also highly recommend Speakeasy. They are best-of-breed as far as DSL companies go. -- Charles R. Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> / http://angus.ind.wpi.edu/~cra/ PGP Key ID: 49BB5886 Fingerprint: EBA3 A106 7C93 FA07 8E15 3AC2 C367 A0F9 49BB 5886

Nov. 26, 2001

RE: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's

by dibb_jim＠emc.com

Verizon got a lot of bad press (probably deserved) but for the past 8 months at least my service in Framingham has been very solid. The news servers are so slow as to be almost useless and there's a funny restriction about what domain must be used to send e-mail, but neither of those really affect me. Check out http://www.dslreports.com for tons of info on dsl. -----Original Message----- From: Keller, Tim [mailto:Tim.Keller@stratus.com] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 10:26 AM To: 'wlug(a)mail.wlug.org' Subject: RE: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's I've had really good luck with Verizon DSL (get about 70-80k a second + no down time). In Worcester you might want to check out Speakeasy. A couple people in WLUG use them and are happy. Tim. -----Original Message----- From: Rodrigo Gomes [mailto:gomes_k@dr.com] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 10:27 AM To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org Subject: [Wlug] Cable or Good DSL ISP's Hey there, I'm looking for a Cable or a DSL ISP's in Worcester (June Street). I've had a chance to see my brother's AOL PLUS DSL, and it sucks. I also tried to contact Charter to install pipeline, but they never answer the e-mail. If someone knows a good ISP, let me know! Thanks. Rod. -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup 1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.! http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJ&url=http:// www.getpennytalk.com _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Nov. 26, 2001