- WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

Re: Reminder! Virtual Meeting Tonight!! 7PM via Jitsi!

by Jon "maddog" Hall

Daryll who? >On April 9, 2010 McBride purchased the SCO Mobility intellectual property from The SCO Group for $100,000. Imagine paying 100,000 USD in 2010 for something that was proven to be worth nothing. Even the name "SCO" is so tarnished after what McBride and his cohorts did that it is worth nothing. On a related note, I made contact with Doug Michels, one of the founders of the original Santa Cruz Operations. Doug is a good guy and I worked with him for years during the heady days of the "Common Desktop Environment". In 1997 Doug was on the board of Uniforum and insisted that Linus Torvalds get a lifetime achievement award at the tender age of 28. md On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 12:50 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey Gang, > > We've got a meeting tonight at 7PM! > > Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > > Topic: I think the Itanium thing got beat to death, but we can still talk > about it. > Apparently there's still a pa-risc port of linux kicking around? Now I > want to run it as a VM! > > Daryl McBride (SCO asshole) just fired for Chapter 13 so we can laugh at > his expense. > > I'm sure there'll be some 3d printer talk, some Pi PICO chatter, plus > whatever else. > > Later, > Tim. > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/HYKKY… >

Feb. 19, 2021

Reminder! Virtual Meeting Tonight!! 7PM via Jitsi!

by Tim Keller

Hey Gang, We've got a meeting tonight at 7PM! Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Topic: I think the Itanium thing got beat to death, but we can still talk about it. Apparently there's still a pa-risc port of linux kicking around? Now I want to run it as a VM! Daryl McBride (SCO asshole) just fired for Chapter 13 so we can laugh at his expense. I'm sure there'll be some 3d printer talk, some Pi PICO chatter, plus whatever else. Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Feb. 11, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Keith Wright

"Robert N. Evans via WLUG" <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > That is not what I see when I query one of the major name servers. > I would guess your server is configured differently... Yes, know it's configured differently. On purpose. I have configured it _not_ to waste time answering stupid questions from random bots. If you want to know the address of isc.org, ask a major name server. My server is for answering questions about _my_ names. It needs to answer queries about keithdiane.us and free-comp-shop.com, for which it is authoritative, which means the major name servers get their info about those names from _here_. I would like to configure it to totally ignore such stupid requests, instead it seems to be answering with the best data it has in its cache. That turns out to be the most verbose yet useless information imaginable---a list of all the root name servers on the internet! -- Keith PS: Don't use my list. It's probably obsolete.

Feb. 11, 2021

WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Chuck Anderson

Correct, Keith's server is not configured to current best security practices. His server has what is called "upward referrals" turned on. https://www.dns-oarc.net/oarc/articles/upward-referrals-considered-harmful I believe what you want at a minimum is: additional-from-cache no; Also, it sounds like you are using your DNS server for two functions: caching for internal clients, and authoritative for your domain name(s). If so you probably should isolate both functions: "If your nameserver is both authoritative and caching, you really should separate the two functions. Caching nameservers are susceptible to poisoning and other types of attacks. You don't necessarily need separate hardware for each. You might need to use separate IP addresses, or possibly configure the authoritative nameserver to use an external address while the caching nameserver uses an internal address." See also: https://kb.isc.org/docs/bind-best-practices-authoritative and: https://kb.isc.org/docs/bind-best-practices-recursive On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 10:08:21AM -0500, Robert N. Evans via WLUG wrote: > That is not what I see when I query one of the major name servers. I would guess your server is configured differently... > > rne@P5:~$ dig @1.1.1.1 isc.org > > ; <<>> DiG 9.16.1-Ubuntu <<>> @1.1.1.1 isc.org > ; (1 server found) > ;; global options: +cmd > ;; Got answer: > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 31866 > ;; flags: qr rd ra ad; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1 > > ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: > ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 1232 > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > ;isc.org. IN A > > ;; ANSWER SECTION: > isc.org. 9 IN A 149.20.1.66 > > ;; Query time: 24 msec > ;; SERVER: 1.1.1.1#53(1.1.1.1) > ;; WHEN: Thu Feb 11 10:03:30 EST 2021 > ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 52 > > > -BE > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > >Sent: Feb 11, 2021 1:04 AM > >To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > >Cc: wlug(a)lists.wlug.org, Andre.Lehovich(a)gmx.com, Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us> > >Subject: [WLUG] Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question! > > > >Andre Lehovich via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > >>> dig @66.92.74.188 isc.org > >> > >> Here you go, hope it's useful... > > > >Thank you. That's a lot of information. > > > >> quetzal:~ al$ dig @66.92.74.188 isc.org > >> > >> ; <<>> DiG 9.10.6 <<>> @66.92.74.188 isc.org > >> ; (1 server found) > >> ;; global options: +cmd > >> ;; Got answer: > >> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 11995 > >> ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 13, ADDITIONAL: 27 > >> ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available > > ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ > >That looks good. > >I don't want to be doing recursion for you (nothing personal). > > > >But where did all the rest of that come from? > >I've never seen anything like that! > >Did my server send all that? Why?? > > > >> ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: > >> ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 4096 > >> ;; QUESTION SECTION: > >> ;isc.org. IN A > >> > >> ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: > >> . 348191 IN NS c.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS d.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS e.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS f.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS g.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS h.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS i.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS j.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS k.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS l.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS m.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS a.root-servers.net. > >> . 348191 IN NS b.root-servers.net. > >> > >> ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: > >> a.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 198.41.0.4 > >> a.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:503:ba3e::2:30 > >> b.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.9.14.201 > >> b.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:200::b > >> c.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.33.4.12 > >> c.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2::c > >> d.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.7.91.13 > >> d.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2d::d > >> e.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.203.230.10 > >> e.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:a8::e > >> f.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.5.5.241 > >> f.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2f::f > >> g.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.112.36.4 > >> g.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:12::d0d > >> h.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 198.97.190.53 > >> h.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:1::53 > >> i.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.36.148.17 > >> i.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:7fe::53 > >> j.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.58.128.30 > >> j.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:503:c27::2:30 > >> k.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 193.0.14.129 > >> k.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:7fd::1 > >> l.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.7.83.42 > >> l.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:9f::42 > >> m.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 202.12.27.33 > >> m.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:dc3::35 > >> > >> ;; Query time: 150 msec > >> ;; SERVER: 66.92.74.188#53(66.92.74.188) > >> ;; WHEN: Wed Feb 10 20:31:08 PST 2021 > >> ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 819

Feb. 11, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Robert N. Evans

That is not what I see when I query one of the major name servers. I would guess your server is configured differently... rne@P5:~$ dig @1.1.1.1 isc.org ; <<>> DiG 9.16.1-Ubuntu <<>> @1.1.1.1 isc.org ; (1 server found) ;; global options: +cmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 31866 ;; flags: qr rd ra ad; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1 ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 1232 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;isc.org. IN A ;; ANSWER SECTION: isc.org. 9 IN A 149.20.1.66 ;; Query time: 24 msec ;; SERVER: 1.1.1.1#53(1.1.1.1) ;; WHEN: Thu Feb 11 10:03:30 EST 2021 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 52 -BE -----Original Message----- >From: Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >Sent: Feb 11, 2021 1:04 AM >To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >Cc: wlug(a)lists.wlug.org, Andre.Lehovich(a)gmx.com, Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us> >Subject: [WLUG] Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question! > >Andre Lehovich via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > >>> dig @66.92.74.188 isc.org >> >> Here you go, hope it's useful... > >Thank you. That's a lot of information. > >> quetzal:~ al$ dig @66.92.74.188 isc.org >> >> ; <<>> DiG 9.10.6 <<>> @66.92.74.188 isc.org >> ; (1 server found) >> ;; global options: +cmd >> ;; Got answer: >> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 11995 >> ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 13, ADDITIONAL: 27 >> ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available > ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ >That looks good. >I don't want to be doing recursion for you (nothing personal). > >But where did all the rest of that come from? >I've never seen anything like that! >Did my server send all that? Why?? > >> ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: >> ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 4096 >> ;; QUESTION SECTION: >> ;isc.org. IN A >> >> ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: >> . 348191 IN NS c.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS d.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS e.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS f.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS g.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS h.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS i.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS j.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS k.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS l.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS m.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS a.root-servers.net. >> . 348191 IN NS b.root-servers.net. >> >> ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: >> a.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 198.41.0.4 >> a.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:503:ba3e::2:30 >> b.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.9.14.201 >> b.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:200::b >> c.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.33.4.12 >> c.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2::c >> d.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.7.91.13 >> d.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2d::d >> e.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.203.230.10 >> e.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:a8::e >> f.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.5.5.241 >> f.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2f::f >> g.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.112.36.4 >> g.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:12::d0d >> h.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 198.97.190.53 >> h.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:1::53 >> i.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.36.148.17 >> i.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:7fe::53 >> j.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.58.128.30 >> j.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:503:c27::2:30 >> k.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 193.0.14.129 >> k.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:7fd::1 >> l.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.7.83.42 >> l.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:9f::42 >> m.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 202.12.27.33 >> m.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:dc3::35 >> >> ;; Query time: 150 msec >> ;; SERVER: 66.92.74.188#53(66.92.74.188) >> ;; WHEN: Wed Feb 10 20:31:08 PST 2021 >> ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 819 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/JBBKO… >_______________________________________________ >WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/2A6P2…

Feb. 11, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Keith Wright

Andre Lehovich via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> dig @66.92.74.188 isc.org > > Here you go, hope it's useful... Thank you. That's a lot of information. > quetzal:~ al$ dig @66.92.74.188 isc.org > > ; <<>> DiG 9.10.6 <<>> @66.92.74.188 isc.org > ; (1 server found) > ;; global options: +cmd > ;; Got answer: > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 11995 > ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 13, ADDITIONAL: 27 > ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ That looks good. I don't want to be doing recursion for you (nothing personal). But where did all the rest of that come from? I've never seen anything like that! Did my server send all that? Why?? > ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: > ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 4096 > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > ;isc.org. IN A > > ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: > . 348191 IN NS c.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS d.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS e.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS f.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS g.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS h.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS i.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS j.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS k.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS l.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS m.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS a.root-servers.net. > . 348191 IN NS b.root-servers.net. > > ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: > a.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 198.41.0.4 > a.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:503:ba3e::2:30 > b.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.9.14.201 > b.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:200::b > c.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.33.4.12 > c.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2::c > d.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.7.91.13 > d.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2d::d > e.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.203.230.10 > e.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:a8::e > f.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.5.5.241 > f.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2f::f > g.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.112.36.4 > g.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:12::d0d > h.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 198.97.190.53 > h.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:1::53 > i.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.36.148.17 > i.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:7fe::53 > j.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.58.128.30 > j.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:503:c27::2:30 > k.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 193.0.14.129 > k.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:7fd::1 > l.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.7.83.42 > l.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:9f::42 > m.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 202.12.27.33 > m.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:dc3::35 > > ;; Query time: 150 msec > ;; SERVER: 66.92.74.188#53(66.92.74.188) > ;; WHEN: Wed Feb 10 20:31:08 PST 2021 > ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 819 > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/JBBKO…

Feb. 11, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Andre Lehovich

> dig @66.92.74.188 isc.org Here you go, hope it's useful... quetzal:~ al$ dig @66.92.74.188 isc.org ; <<>> DiG 9.10.6 <<>> @66.92.74.188 isc.org ; (1 server found) ;; global options: +cmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 11995 ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 13, ADDITIONAL: 27 ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 4096 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;isc.org. IN A ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: . 348191 IN NS c.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS d.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS e.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS f.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS g.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS h.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS i.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS j.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS k.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS l.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS m.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS a.root-servers.net. . 348191 IN NS b.root-servers.net. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: a.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 198.41.0.4 a.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:503:ba3e::2:30 b.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.9.14.201 b.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:200::b c.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.33.4.12 c.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2::c d.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.7.91.13 d.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2d::d e.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.203.230.10 e.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:a8::e f.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.5.5.241 f.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:2f::f g.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.112.36.4 g.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:12::d0d h.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 198.97.190.53 h.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:1::53 i.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.36.148.17 i.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:7fe::53 j.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 192.58.128.30 j.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:503:c27::2:30 k.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 193.0.14.129 k.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:7fd::1 l.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 199.7.83.42 l.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:500:9f::42 m.root-servers.net. 348191 IN A 202.12.27.33 m.root-servers.net. 348191 IN AAAA 2001:dc3::35 ;; Query time: 150 msec ;; SERVER: 66.92.74.188#53(66.92.74.188) ;; WHEN: Wed Feb 10 20:31:08 PST 2021 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 819

Feb. 11, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Keith Wright

I hope to make it. I'll have to borrow Diane's laptop. My Linux laptop makes a fine computer, but a bad television It says "Topic: Good question!" So here's my good question: I run a name server (DNS). A few days ago it started getting abut 100 requests/min from many different IP addresses all for isc.org. Why are they asking me? I believe I have it set up so that queries from inside the house are so-called "recurive"--- it searches the internet for an answer, but queries from outside are anwered only with info it already has. I am not sure if that means it only answer queries for which it authoritative, or if it also anwers if it has the data cached. I would like it to just blow off any queries for which it is not authoritative. Tell where to send mail for @keithdiane.us and not even answer otherwise. It is remarkably difficult to get it to put replies into the log file, even if it is logging the queries. Could somebody run the following and tell me the results? dig @66.92.74.188 isc.org (that's my IP address) -- Keith

Feb. 11, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Robert N. Evans

I don't want to join the endian wars. So I'll comment on something else. Stratus did not support Itanium because they follow rather than lead the market. When a replacement for PA-RISC was considered at Stratus we did look at Itanium. I recall studying the FW then called "EFI" around 2003 when I was in the VOS group. For the in-house VOS OS, Stratus would need compilers for PL/I and C and a modified linker to get to Itanium. Stratus never made this investment. What the VOS group did was to port to x86. Today VOS is still a 32-bit OS that runs on Motorola 68K, i860, PA-RISC and x86. This is unlikely to ever change for VOS as the compiler and linker tech leads have left Stratus. For the other three OS's supported by Stratus, Windows, Linux, VMware ESX, outsiders, not Stratus, would or would not be porting their OS to Itanium. (As was the case for amd64). Since the Stratus value add is to take applications coded to run on commodity HW and make the apps highly reliable by running on Stratus HW, Stratus would not move to Itanium until the customers already were developing to that platform. -- One more comment on a different topic: > >I personally play around with ATTiny85 and ATTiny84 MCUs when I get a >chance. Slowly looking at STM8 and STM32 stuff as well. And of >course the Arduino AVR stuff. > Me too, but somewhat bigger/faster MCUs. I still occasionally code in C, but it is more productive with high level interpreted languages on these chips. Lately I'm very excited about esp8266 and CircuitPython. FYI, A programmer's intro to esp8266: https://tttapa.github.io/ESP8266/Chap01%20-%20ESP8266.html -BE

Feb. 5, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jon "maddog" Hall

John, I read what Linus wrote and I think the most important paragraph is the last two. This "deficiency" in the Alpha design was not that consequential to anyone but a very small number of people, and still allowed the Alpha to be the world's fastest microprocessor for (if I remember correctly) eight years in a row according to the Guinness Book of Records. As to the little vs big endian issues, the worst part was in reading undefined data across the network. What do I mean by "undefined data"? o The union statement in "C" o The equivalence statement in FORTRAN o The Linkage section in Cobol All statements that allow you to write the same data looking at it in different ways. If you write out a "block" of Integers into a file, there is no way that a system reading that file some time later could tell if those integers were written by a little endian system or a big endian system, so the Integers would be read incorrectly. NFS made it worse....much worse, but it was bad before NFS. md On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 5:37 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: > >>>>> "Jon" == Jon \"maddog\" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> writes: > > Jon> John, > >> Yes, but I don't properly recall if the Itanium design was started > >> before AMD64 came or as a reaction to the AMD64. Haven't done any > >> research for the real timelines. > > Jon> Two single-line searches found that the Itanium was launched in > Jon> 2001 and the AMD x64 was launched in 2003. > > Been neck deep in SFLT tape restore wrangling today. Whee!!! > > >> It's a shame the Alpha architecture didn't make it, even though it did > >> have some bad design decisions inside it's ISA and internal > >> architecture. It was still a pretty nice and clean 64-bit design. As > >> I recall, it's mostly the memory ordering around byte accesses that > >> are the problem. > > Jon> This is the first I have heard of these bad decisions. Would you > care to elaborate? > > It's in regards to memory ordering. See this LKML post by Linus on > the topic. This is what I'm talking about mostly. > > https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/2/1/521 > > > Jon> The memory ordering around byte accesses might have been because > Jon> the Alpha was designed to be both little endian and big endian. > Jon> So were the MIPS chips. While many vendors supported only big > Jon> endian (Motorola, SPARC, etc.) DEC had been supporting little > Jon> endian in their PDP-11s, VAX, MIPS and Alphas for data > Jon> compatibility. DEC supported little endian because it was > Jon> cheaper electronically to have the data held in that fashion. > > Very much could be that is the reason. I don't know. > > Jon> Sun made much fun of DEC for years having Unix systems that were > Jon> little endian instead of big endian like "real workstations". I > Jon> kept asking them about these "Intel things" which were little > Jon> endian too. Sun sneered at me and told me that "Intel chips > Jon> were not used in real computers".....that is until they ported > Jon> Solaris to Intel and tried to mix them into their network. Then > Jon> I took real glee in asking them how they had data compatibility > Jon> across NFS between SPARC and Intel. > > Gah, all the problems with writing socket code and having to do > translations from Network Byte Ordering to Host Byte Ordering. > hton[ls]() and the inverse. > > Jon> As I said, you are the first to mention to me these bad > Jon> decisions. I am curious to know what they are. > > It's in terms of memory ordering on access. See the above link. >

Feb. 4, 2021