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Re: [Wlug] Red Hat vs SuSE....

by Charles R. Anderson

On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 06:01:49PM -0500, Josh Huber wrote: > Not to be a pain in the ass, but the envelope information is not > *always* there -- it's not even part of the message. > > Perhaps your mail is stored in an mbox-style mailbox, which uses the > "From<space>" line as the message separators? (I use IMAP as a mail > store, so these lines are not present) For procmail, and perhaps other MTA/MDA-based filtering packages, it is always there, but you are right, it may not be available to e.g. pine filtering etc. depening on the format of the mail store. -- Charles R. Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> / http://angus.ind.wpi.edu/~cra/ PGP Key ID: 49BB5886 Fingerprint: EBA3 A106 7C93 FA07 8E15 3AC2 C367 A0F9 49BB 5886

Nov. 7, 2003

Re: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show...

by doug waud

Hi all Keller, Tim wrote: > Firstly, I think we need to decide who our target audience is. This morning > I came up with notion that generally, users can be broken into several > groups. snip, snip > What do people think. Also, if it is the consensus that we should focus on > groups 1-3, should we narrow our focus even more? I have a hard time picturing how you could get something which would be meaningful/interesting for the novice group and not bore the hell out of the advanced group (and visa versa). The closest I can imagine is starting with some introductory stuff in 1+ half hour bytes and then progressing to more advanced topics with the idea that you have brought the novice group up to speed for the more advanced stuff and the experts can skip the early part and drop in later. The problem here is that now you have a lot more work to do. In turn, this makes me think a crawl-before-walk approach is best. Thus I would start with the novice group and, if you don't lose them, plan on going on to the deeper material in round two. I have just been viewing a tape I made of Brian Greene's Elegant Universe (Nova). I could not help watching it from the context of our interest in doing a similar thing for Linux. The Nova show was clearly aimed at the novice. And it worked very well. The general format was about a sentence or two on something with a quick transfer to some eye-catching visual effect ("eye candy"). For instance, jumping now to our topic, one could start out with some catchy "grab 'em" introduction like Narrator: We're going to let you in on a well-kept secret: you don't have to spend a lot of money to get good software for you computer. Followed by a shot of a "user" complaining that he/she is going to have to spend $X to upgrade to WindowsX, another that it will cost $Y to upgrade to OfficeZ and then one of our dorks with "Hey, I can do all that for $30, or even for nothing if I wish! From here you could move to a collage of floating GNU, LINUX, TUX's, Linus, Maddog, Stallman, etc with the narrator saying welcome to the world of what is called open source software, Linux, GNU, penguins saving money and evading the grasp of companies who try to make your their captive audience. etc Slide: Avoid the Gates of Hell, Use Linux! Narrator: Want to learn more? Just jump on board and fasten your seat belt. Take the tour of the world of Open Source! ? Snippet of a Disney world like train heading off to Open Source Land. Narrator; Let's start at the beginning, or actually the beginnings. First we have a guy in Cambridge (back drop changes to Stallman) who got very upset when he ran into computer programs that he could not see inside. It also bothered him that computer programs were not freely exchanged. (Back drop could have some key Stallman quotes on this issue) etc to gnu emacs etc Narrator: This leads into the "second beginning": Narrator: About this time, a young guy in Finland (Torvalds now on the background) was etc etc. snip, snip Narrator: So what exactly is Linux? (Background of floating packages of Redhat, SuSE, Caldera, etc). ---- Linux in the broad sense, GNU/Linux, Linux/GNU distros, snip snip Narrator: So let's take a look at a computer running linux (Background a KDE/Gnome desktop) Here is what you get. Notice that, as you might expect since they are all doing the same thing, it is very similar to various Windows desktops. You have menus, (Background open menu with mouse), you can open applications (Background open something which pops up quickly ), you can read mail (Background --- you've got the picture) you can "surf the web" (Background a good porn site :-)) etc. snip snip Narrator: So how do you get into this wonderful world etc etc. Well, as usual I got carried away but the above does show a few things. Principally, a lot of work would have to be done on getting those background shots since they are the stuff which keeps the audience's attention. Secondly, I found the actual script came fairly easily. The process was essentially to get and idea of flow (This would be a sequence of topics the group agreed flowed well, including nothing spurious and leaving out nothing necessary), picture what graphic (this is video!) would accompany/achieve that, and add the narration to keep the audience on track. Note also that one has to make sure one's internal enthusiasm is translated (and probably amplified along the way) to the screen. For example, if we were to get to the second, for-the-more-expert stage, I would want to see some "Hey this is cool" expletives in the script! At this point, the idea of sitting in a studio with a camera pointed at some "talking head" does not strike me as a good way to go unless you are interested in selling sleeping pills. Time to shut up and see what the rest of you think. doug

Nov. 6, 2003

Re: [Wlug] Red Hat vs SuSE....

by Josh Huber

"Charles R. Anderson" <cra(a)WPI.EDU> writes: > The envelope "From " header is *always* there, and indicates the list > a message came through: > >>From wlug-bounces(a)mail.wlug.org Thu Nov 6 17:27:19 2003 Not to be a pain in the ass, but the envelope information is not *always* there -- it's not even part of the message. Perhaps your mail is stored in an mbox-style mailbox, which uses the "From<space>" line as the message separators? (I use IMAP as a mail store, so these lines are not present) So, back to the original question. If you're filtering on a header, I would also tend to recommend the List-Id header. It seems as though mailman must haved changed the default envelope sender from listname-admin@... to listname-bounces@..., since a copule lists which I had filtering on the Sender header started showing up in my inbox. -- Josh Huber

Nov. 6, 2003

Re: [Wlug] Red Hat vs SuSE....

by Charles R. Anderson

On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 05:26:02PM -0500, Andy Stewart wrote: > On Thursday 06 November 2003 5:05 pm, John Stoffel wrote: > > Just a quick suggestion, but could you please re-insert the mail > > header for "Sender:" so it's easy to sort out WLUG email from other > > stuff? > > HI John, > > I see "Sender:" in my mail headers from the list, and it says > "wlug-bounces(a)mail.wlug.org". Am I looking at the right thing? > > For lists, I personally like to filter on "List-Id:" field of the mail header, > but there's probably a zillion ways to accomplish this. The envelope "From " header is *always* there, and indicates the list a message came through: >From wlug-bounces(a)mail.wlug.org Thu Nov 6 17:27:19 2003 -- Charles R. Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> / http://angus.ind.wpi.edu/~cra/ PGP Key ID: 49BB5886 Fingerprint: EBA3 A106 7C93 FA07 8E15 3AC2 C367 A0F9 49BB 5886

Nov. 6, 2003

Re: [Wlug] Red Hat vs SuSE....

by Andy Stewart

On Thursday 06 November 2003 5:05 pm, John Stoffel wrote: > Just a quick suggestion, but could you please re-insert the mail > header for "Sender:" so it's easy to sort out WLUG email from other > stuff? HI John, I see "Sender:" in my mail headers from the list, and it says "wlug-bounces(a)mail.wlug.org". Am I looking at the right thing? For lists, I personally like to filter on "List-Id:" field of the mail header, but there's probably a zillion ways to accomplish this. Later, Andy -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org

Nov. 6, 2003

Re: [Wlug] Red Hat vs SuSE....

by John Stoffel

Just a quick suggestion, but could you please re-insert the mail header for "Sender:" so it's easy to sort out WLUG email from other stuff? Thanks, John John Stoffel - Senior Unix Systems Administrator - Lucent Technologies stoffel(a)lucent.com - http://www.lucent.com - 978-952-7548

Nov. 6, 2003

RE: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show...

by Keller, Tim

I agree with both what you and Matthew both said. So, I think our new groupings should be 1. Novice Users 2. Intermediate Users 3. Advanced Users 4. Educational Users I've dropped the suits off the map because they don't really apply (in this context). I think maybe we should focus on the Novice and Intermediate users first. Then focus on the Educational users second and then maybe due hyper focused treatments for the advanced users. Thanks, Tim. -----Original Message----- From: mlong(a)datalong.com [mailto:mlong@datalong.com] Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 10:57 AM To: Worcester Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show... > The first group are novice users. These are people who use a computer, but > the concept of an operating system or the idea that windows isn't just "part > of the system" and not removable is alien. > I would suggest there is an "intermediate users group. This group is not afraid to play around with different OS's, hardware and software and know how to configure their software of choice. However they rely heavily on configuration tools to apply much of the digital glue to make their systems usable and/or secure. > The second group is "advanced" users. I think most of us would fall into > this group. We understand OS's, hardware, software and all the digital glue > that holds it together. > > The third group is educational users. These would be people who work in > some education institution and they're interest in linux would be from the > standpoint of deploying it for cost savings and/or using it as an education > tool for teaching. > > The forth group would be corporate suit types. These are the people who > read the trade rags, but don't have a clear understanding of what linux. > They've read lots of conflicting FUD on the subject and aren't sure how > linux could be used in they're environment or what the real TCO would be. --mike _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Nov. 6, 2003

RE: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show...

by Simoncini, Matthew

Tim, I would have to say I agree with your "user grouping" for the most part, but feel (IMHO) that there might be a group of people that fall between the novice and advanced users, lets call them the "hobbyist group". These people know how to use a computer, have probably "dabbled" in linux, but need some help performing certain tasks or need convincing on turning the corner and using linux full time. This is an important group because a) I'm a member of this group :o) and b) members of this group know the value of linux, but want to make sure they can do everything they want to do in linux i.e. listen to MP3's, burn CD's, browse the web, be able to use a word processor, etc .... I think that the general idea of spreading the linux word is a great idea especially on a visible medium, but the most value would be added if the largest user group is targeted. So, in a nutshell, I think you guys have a great idea and I hope to watch you guys on TV sometime soon. Matthew > -----Original Message----- > From: Keller, Tim [mailto:Tim.Keller@stratus.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 10:39 AM > To: 'wlug(a)wlug.org' > Subject: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show... > > > For those who didn't attend the meeting last night, we talked > a little about > the idea of producing a linux focused TV Show. From that > discussion we > decided that the best thing to-do would be to have the main > part of the > discussion through the mail list. > > So, here it is... > > Firstly, I think we need to decide who our target audience > is. This morning > I came up with notion that generally, users can be broken into several > groups. > > The first group are novice users. These are people who use a > computer, but > the concept of an operating system or the idea that windows > isn't just "part > of the system" and not removable is alien. > > The second group is "advanced" users. I think most of us > would fall into > this group. We understand OS's, hardware, software and all > the digital glue > that holds it together. > > The third group is educational users. These would be people > who work in > some education institution and they're interest in linux > would be from the > standpoint of deploying it for cost savings and/or using it > as an education > tool for teaching. > > The forth group would be corporate suit types. These are the > people who > read the trade rags, but don't have a clear understanding of > what linux. > They've read lots of conflicting FUD on the subject and > aren't sure how > linux could be used in they're environment or what the real > TCO would be. > > Personally, I think we should go after groups 1-3. The > reason I'm not too > worried about the fourth type is that now that redhat had decided that > they're going to go full force into the enterprise > environment, they'll be > busy spending lots of PR dollars convincing the suits. > > What do people think. Also, if it is the consensus that we > should focus on > groups 1-3, should we narrow our focus even more? > > Thanks, > Tim. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

Nov. 6, 2003

Re: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show...

by mlong＠datalong.com

> The first group are novice users. These are people who use a computer, but > the concept of an operating system or the idea that windows isn't just "part > of the system" and not removable is alien. > I would suggest there is an "intermediate users group. This group is not afraid to play around with different OS's, hardware and software and know how to configure their software of choice. However they rely heavily on configuration tools to apply much of the digital glue to make their systems usable and/or secure. > The second group is "advanced" users. I think most of us would fall into > this group. We understand OS's, hardware, software and all the digital glue > that holds it together. > > The third group is educational users. These would be people who work in > some education institution and they're interest in linux would be from the > standpoint of deploying it for cost savings and/or using it as an education > tool for teaching. > > The forth group would be corporate suit types. These are the people who > read the trade rags, but don't have a clear understanding of what linux. > They've read lots of conflicting FUD on the subject and aren't sure how > linux could be used in they're environment or what the real TCO would be. --mike

Nov. 6, 2003

W.L.U.G. TV show...

by Keller, Tim

For those who didn't attend the meeting last night, we talked a little about the idea of producing a linux focused TV Show. From that discussion we decided that the best thing to-do would be to have the main part of the discussion through the mail list. So, here it is... Firstly, I think we need to decide who our target audience is. This morning I came up with notion that generally, users can be broken into several groups. The first group are novice users. These are people who use a computer, but the concept of an operating system or the idea that windows isn't just "part of the system" and not removable is alien. The second group is "advanced" users. I think most of us would fall into this group. We understand OS's, hardware, software and all the digital glue that holds it together. The third group is educational users. These would be people who work in some education institution and they're interest in linux would be from the standpoint of deploying it for cost savings and/or using it as an education tool for teaching. The forth group would be corporate suit types. These are the people who read the trade rags, but don't have a clear understanding of what linux. They've read lots of conflicting FUD on the subject and aren't sure how linux could be used in they're environment or what the real TCO would be. Personally, I think we should go after groups 1-3. The reason I'm not too worried about the fourth type is that now that redhat had decided that they're going to go full force into the enterprise environment, they'll be busy spending lots of PR dollars convincing the suits. What do people think. Also, if it is the consensus that we should focus on groups 1-3, should we narrow our focus even more? Thanks, Tim.

Nov. 6, 2003