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Re: ISPS limiting..was Re: Meeting next week! March 14th 2024!

by John Stoffel

I think the answer is "it depends". As Mike Voorhis says, his home stuff just works. And I certainly allow incoming SSH and other traffic to my home network. I honestly haven't tested if they block outgoing SMTP (port 25 traffic) recently, but checking now, they don't seem to be blocking it since I could get to my VPS on port 25 from home no problem. I *have* been slowly working to get Wireguard setup at home so I can tunnel over a VPN to my VPS to make some things simpler, so I just have one end-point on my OPNsense Firewall at home which allows connections from remote devices into my network. This way I don't need quite as many firewall rules on OPNSense. At least that's the idea, but lack of time and bugs have slowed my progress here. > I could swear I read before, at least for residential services that > Charter (now Spectrum) internet did NOT allow you to host a site > which is why I have never tried to do it. I would guess that its > all about the bandwidth dollars. Below is a link to their current > TOS (terms of service) in case it is of interest: I think if you start hosting something that gets their attention, they'll shut you down. *shrug* not really sure.

March 15, 2024

Re: ISPS limiting..was Re: Meeting next week! March 14th 2024!

by Keith Wright

Cara Salter via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Funnily enough, I get a 403 error when I try to view that page. Last I > remember it allowed services for private use. > -------- Original Message -------- > From: THE HAMMER via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > https://www.spectrum.com/policies/internet-use-policy I get a page titled: Spectrum Internet Acceptable Use Policy, which says, in part: 2. Prohibited Activities Using the System, Network, and Service. Any activity or use of the Service which violates system or network security or integrity are prohibited and may result in criminal and civil liability. Such violations include, without limitation, the following: L. Running any type of server on the system that is not consistent with personal, residential use. This includes but is not limited to FTP, IRC, SMTP, POP, HTTP, SOCS, SQUID, NTP, DNS or any multi-user forums. So they threaten you with jail time for listening on port 25. PHLHT!! -- Keith

March 14, 2024

Re: ISPS limiting..was Re: Meeting next week! March 14th 2024!

by Michael Voorhis

I've had my house-server on the internet via Charter Spectrum for many many years. I send and receive (a tiny amt of) email, there's a webserver, and other small items. I've made no attempt to conceal any of this. --MCV. On 3/14/24 10:14 AM, THE HAMMER via WLUG wrote: > I could swear I read before, at least for residential services that > Charter (now Spectrum) internet did NOT allow you to host a site > which is why I have never tried to do it. I would guess that its all > about the bandwidth dollars.

March 14, 2024

Re: ISPS limiting..was Re: Meeting next week! March 14th 2024!

by Cara Salter

Funnily enough, I get a 403 error when I try to view that page. Last I remember it allowed services for private use. --cs -------- Original Message -------- From: THE HAMMER via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Sent: March 15, 2024 1:14:21 AM GMT+11:00 To: John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org>, Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Cc: Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us>, Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com>, THE HAMMER <hammerron(a)hotmail.com> Subject: [WLUG] Re: ISPS limiting..was Re: Meeting next week! March 14th 2024! Tim, I could swear I read before, at least for residential services that Charter (now Spectrum) internet did NOT allow you to host a site which is why I have never tried to do it. I would guess that its all about the bandwidth dollars. Below is a link to their current TOS (terms of service) in case it is of interest: Ron https://www.spectrum.com/policies/internet-use-policy [https://www.spectrum.com/content/spectrum/residential/en/policies/internet-…]<https://www.spectrum.com/policies/internet-use-policy> Spectrum - Internet Use Policy<https://www.spectrum.com/policies/internet-use-policy> Learn about our Internet Use Policy for Spectrum Internet® and data subscription. www.spectrum.com ________________________________ From: Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2024 6:34 AM To: John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> Cc: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org>; Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us>; Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> Subject: [WLUG] Re: Meeting next week! March 14th 2024! I knew this topic would be of interest to people! As I'm writing this Gmail is yelling at me to buy more storage.. For me the "self" is the level of control I have over it. Lately ISP's have gone out of their way to make it very hard to host services on your own networks and expose them to the internet. Tim. On Wed, Mar 13, 2024, 3:47 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org<mailto:john@stoffel.org>> wrote: >>>>> "Keith" == Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org<mailto:wlug@lists.wlug.org>> writes: > Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org<mailto:wlug@lists.wlug.org>> writes: >> >> We've got a meeting next week! > I hope to tune in via jit.si<http://jit.si> >> I think it's really worth talking about Self hosting. > I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Self". For twenty years I had a > DSL connection with a static routable IPv4 address. I had an intenet > host with Tandy Monitor that ran a name server, mail server, and web > server. That's all broken now because the ISP no longer does DSL. That's certainly a definite form of self hosting! When you run your own internet infrastructure (http, mail, ftp, ssh) that's you doing the work and keeping the control. > Instead I pay $10 month for a VPS (Virtual Private Server) from > AfterBurst, which comes with an IP address. Pretty much everything > that used to be in my basement is now in "the cloud". It's not > "Self" because its not my computer, but almost everything else is > the same. AfterBurst does not do anything, just let me use their > computer to do it myself. I do this too with a Linode Droplet ($5/mo) but I'm thinking I should upgrade to something with more CPU and Memory so I can run some better anti-spam tools. > The main problem I am dealing with now is that the internal (in home) > network is notwork. I have been keeping notes and put them here: That sucks! > http://www.free-comp-shop.com/none/ipv6.html > I am trying to use IPv6, which I have never done before. If anybody > has any suggestions... I've tried as well in the past, with the big issue for me being getting from IPv6 internally to a (mostly) IPv4 network outside. I think IPv6 probably works better as a gateway to your home, since you can then assign multiple distinct IPs to your own block of 64 (or whatever the count it) of internal IPs and make them visible to the outside. So it removes NATing and such. But IPv6 just is a pain to do. I keep reading that Charter/Spectrum offers IPv6 IPs, but I haven't made the leap. Still working on my wireguard setup, which has falled to the side lately. [https://s-install.avcdn.net/ipm/preview/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-…]<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam…> Virus-free.www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam…>

March 14, 2024

Re: Meeting Tonight, March 14th 2024. Topic: "self hosting"

by Gregory Boyce

Thanks Tim. That would be great if it works out. No worries if it does not. On Thu, Mar 14, 2024 at 11:31 AM Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote: > In the past we have tried with limited success, I'll see if I can get it > recorded. > > This folds nicely into the topic. > > Jitsi has a built in recording feature.. that uses Dropbox and seems to > only *randomly* work, or stops recording randomly.. real fun.. > > I've got OBS on my laptop, so I'll see if I can record it local and the > upload it to our YouTube channel. > > Tim. > > On Thu, Mar 14, 2024, 10:58 AM Gregory Boyce <gregory.boyce(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> This sounds right up my alley, but I'm not going to be able to attend. >> Are these sessions recorded by any chance? >> >> On Thu, Mar 14, 2024, 10:46 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Time: 7pm. >>> Date: March 14th 2024 >>> Location: Technocopia >>> 44 Portland St. Worcester MA. >>> Virtual Location: hopefully hosted independently, but at >>> https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >>> For now.. >>> >>> We are increasingly living in a world where our data isn't ours anymore. >>> Everything is a service being hosted by some entity, subjected to the whims >>> of that entity. >>> >>> Come to love some service? They're discontinuing it. >>> >>> Your data? They're using it to train some AI that you don't control. >>> >>> Functionality? Ever changing.. >>> >>> Costs? To change without warning and your data is now hostage. >>> >>> To that end.. What are people doing? What would people like to do? >>> >>> What options are out there? What's worked in the past and now doesn't? >>> >>> There's also SOAF "significant other acceptance factor" to consider.. >>> If you own the data but it's so horrific to manage that it sends >>> everybody >>> around you fleeing back to some service, that's no good either. >>> >>> I expect this to be a pretty lively debate. >>> >>> As usual, we'll head out for dinner and continue the conversation. >>> >>> I'll have snacks and refreshments available. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tim. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/MBYXB… >>> >> -- Greg

March 14, 2024

Re: Meeting Tonight, March 14th 2024. Topic: "self hosting"

by Tim Keller

In the past we have tried with limited success, I'll see if I can get it recorded. This folds nicely into the topic. Jitsi has a built in recording feature.. that uses Dropbox and seems to only *randomly* work, or stops recording randomly.. real fun.. I've got OBS on my laptop, so I'll see if I can record it local and the upload it to our YouTube channel. Tim. On Thu, Mar 14, 2024, 10:58 AM Gregory Boyce <gregory.boyce(a)gmail.com> wrote: > This sounds right up my alley, but I'm not going to be able to attend. > Are these sessions recorded by any chance? > > On Thu, Mar 14, 2024, 10:46 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> Time: 7pm. >> Date: March 14th 2024 >> Location: Technocopia >> 44 Portland St. Worcester MA. >> Virtual Location: hopefully hosted independently, but at >> https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >> For now.. >> >> We are increasingly living in a world where our data isn't ours anymore. >> Everything is a service being hosted by some entity, subjected to the whims >> of that entity. >> >> Come to love some service? They're discontinuing it. >> >> Your data? They're using it to train some AI that you don't control. >> >> Functionality? Ever changing.. >> >> Costs? To change without warning and your data is now hostage. >> >> To that end.. What are people doing? What would people like to do? >> >> What options are out there? What's worked in the past and now doesn't? >> >> There's also SOAF "significant other acceptance factor" to consider.. >> If you own the data but it's so horrific to manage that it sends everybody >> around you fleeing back to some service, that's no good either. >> >> I expect this to be a pretty lively debate. >> >> As usual, we'll head out for dinner and continue the conversation. >> >> I'll have snacks and refreshments available. >> >> Thanks, >> Tim. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/MBYXB… >> >

March 14, 2024

Re: Meeting Tonight, March 14th 2024. Topic: "self hosting"

by Gregory Boyce

This sounds right up my alley, but I'm not going to be able to attend. Are these sessions recorded by any chance? On Thu, Mar 14, 2024, 10:46 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Time: 7pm. > Date: March 14th 2024 > Location: Technocopia > 44 Portland St. Worcester MA. > Virtual Location: hopefully hosted independently, but at > https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > For now.. > > We are increasingly living in a world where our data isn't ours anymore. > Everything is a service being hosted by some entity, subjected to the whims > of that entity. > > Come to love some service? They're discontinuing it. > > Your data? They're using it to train some AI that you don't control. > > Functionality? Ever changing.. > > Costs? To change without warning and your data is now hostage. > > To that end.. What are people doing? What would people like to do? > > What options are out there? What's worked in the past and now doesn't? > > There's also SOAF "significant other acceptance factor" to consider.. > If you own the data but it's so horrific to manage that it sends everybody > around you fleeing back to some service, that's no good either. > > I expect this to be a pretty lively debate. > > As usual, we'll head out for dinner and continue the conversation. > > I'll have snacks and refreshments available. > > Thanks, > Tim. > > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/MBYXB… >

March 14, 2024

Meeting Tonight, March 14th 2024. Topic: "self hosting"

by Tim Keller

Time: 7pm. Date: March 14th 2024 Location: Technocopia 44 Portland St. Worcester MA. Virtual Location: hopefully hosted independently, but at https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA For now.. We are increasingly living in a world where our data isn't ours anymore. Everything is a service being hosted by some entity, subjected to the whims of that entity. Come to love some service? They're discontinuing it. Your data? They're using it to train some AI that you don't control. Functionality? Ever changing.. Costs? To change without warning and your data is now hostage. To that end.. What are people doing? What would people like to do? What options are out there? What's worked in the past and now doesn't? There's also SOAF "significant other acceptance factor" to consider.. If you own the data but it's so horrific to manage that it sends everybody around you fleeing back to some service, that's no good either. I expect this to be a pretty lively debate. As usual, we'll head out for dinner and continue the conversation. I'll have snacks and refreshments available. Thanks, Tim.

March 14, 2024

Re: ISPS limiting..was Re: Meeting next week! March 14th 2024!

by THE HAMMER

Tim, I could swear I read before, at least for residential services that Charter (now Spectrum) internet did NOT allow you to host a site which is why I have never tried to do it. I would guess that its all about the bandwidth dollars. Below is a link to their current TOS (terms of service) in case it is of interest: Ron https://www.spectrum.com/policies/internet-use-policy [https://www.spectrum.com/content/spectrum/residential/en/policies/internet-…]<https://www.spectrum.com/policies/internet-use-policy> Spectrum - Internet Use Policy<https://www.spectrum.com/policies/internet-use-policy> Learn about our Internet Use Policy for Spectrum Internet® and data subscription. www.spectrum.com ________________________________ From: Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2024 6:34 AM To: John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> Cc: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org>; Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us>; Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> Subject: [WLUG] Re: Meeting next week! March 14th 2024! I knew this topic would be of interest to people! As I'm writing this Gmail is yelling at me to buy more storage.. For me the "self" is the level of control I have over it. Lately ISP's have gone out of their way to make it very hard to host services on your own networks and expose them to the internet. Tim. On Wed, Mar 13, 2024, 3:47 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org<mailto:john@stoffel.org>> wrote: >>>>> "Keith" == Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org<mailto:wlug@lists.wlug.org>> writes: > Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org<mailto:wlug@lists.wlug.org>> writes: >> >> We've got a meeting next week! > I hope to tune in via jit.si<http://jit.si> >> I think it's really worth talking about Self hosting. > I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Self". For twenty years I had a > DSL connection with a static routable IPv4 address. I had an intenet > host with Tandy Monitor that ran a name server, mail server, and web > server. That's all broken now because the ISP no longer does DSL. That's certainly a definite form of self hosting! When you run your own internet infrastructure (http, mail, ftp, ssh) that's you doing the work and keeping the control. > Instead I pay $10 month for a VPS (Virtual Private Server) from > AfterBurst, which comes with an IP address. Pretty much everything > that used to be in my basement is now in "the cloud". It's not > "Self" because its not my computer, but almost everything else is > the same. AfterBurst does not do anything, just let me use their > computer to do it myself. I do this too with a Linode Droplet ($5/mo) but I'm thinking I should upgrade to something with more CPU and Memory so I can run some better anti-spam tools. > The main problem I am dealing with now is that the internal (in home) > network is notwork. I have been keeping notes and put them here: That sucks! > http://www.free-comp-shop.com/none/ipv6.html > I am trying to use IPv6, which I have never done before. If anybody > has any suggestions... I've tried as well in the past, with the big issue for me being getting from IPv6 internally to a (mostly) IPv4 network outside. I think IPv6 probably works better as a gateway to your home, since you can then assign multiple distinct IPs to your own block of 64 (or whatever the count it) of internal IPs and make them visible to the outside. So it removes NATing and such. But IPv6 just is a pain to do. I keep reading that Charter/Spectrum offers IPv6 IPs, but I haven't made the leap. Still working on my wireguard setup, which has falled to the side lately. [https://s-install.avcdn.net/ipm/preview/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-…]<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam…> Virus-free.www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam…>

March 14, 2024

Re: Meeting next week! March 14th 2024!

by Tim Keller

I knew this topic would be of interest to people! As I'm writing this Gmail is yelling at me to buy more storage.. For me the "self" is the level of control I have over it. Lately ISP's have gone out of their way to make it very hard to host services on your own networks and expose them to the internet. Tim. On Wed, Mar 13, 2024, 3:47 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: > >>>>> "Keith" == Keith Wright via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > > > Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > >> > >> We've got a meeting next week! > > > I hope to tune in via jit.si > > >> I think it's really worth talking about Self hosting. > > > I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Self". For twenty years I had a > > DSL connection with a static routable IPv4 address. I had an intenet > > host with Tandy Monitor that ran a name server, mail server, and web > > server. That's all broken now because the ISP no longer does DSL. > > That's certainly a definite form of self hosting! When you run your > own internet infrastructure (http, mail, ftp, ssh) that's you doing > the work and keeping the control. > > > Instead I pay $10 month for a VPS (Virtual Private Server) from > > AfterBurst, which comes with an IP address. Pretty much everything > > that used to be in my basement is now in "the cloud". It's not > > "Self" because its not my computer, but almost everything else is > > the same. AfterBurst does not do anything, just let me use their > > computer to do it myself. > > I do this too with a Linode Droplet ($5/mo) but I'm thinking I should > upgrade to something with more CPU and Memory so I can run some better > anti-spam tools. > > > The main problem I am dealing with now is that the internal (in home) > > network is notwork. I have been keeping notes and put them here: > > That sucks! > > > http://www.free-comp-shop.com/none/ipv6.html > > > I am trying to use IPv6, which I have never done before. If anybody > > has any suggestions... > > I've tried as well in the past, with the big issue for me being > getting from IPv6 internally to a (mostly) IPv4 network outside. I > think IPv6 probably works better as a gateway to your home, since you > can then assign multiple distinct IPs to your own block of 64 (or > whatever the count it) of internal IPs and make them visible to the > outside. So it removes NATing and such. > > But IPv6 just is a pain to do. I keep reading that Charter/Spectrum > offers IPv6 IPs, but I haven't made the leap. Still working on my > wireguard setup, which has falled to the side lately. > >

March 14, 2024