- WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

Finally, Linux With a Lot Less Fuss

by Karl Hiramoto

Good article in the washington post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48924-2002Nov27.html By Rob Pegoraro Sunday, December 1, 2002; Page H07 Over the past few weeks, I've installed Linux on three computers without breaking into fits of cursing. That's a novel development in my experience with this open-source operating system. The version I've been using is Red Hat Linux 8.0, shipped by Raleigh, N.C.-based Red Hat in late September. This is the first Linux distribution I've tried that hasn't made me feel as if I'm about to step on a rake and have its handle swing into my face. Parts of this are still infuriatingly convoluted, but if you've been thinking about trying out Linux on part of your hard drive -- or about dumping Windows entirely -- this is what I'd recommend. Why would you want to do that? One, Linux is cheap or free -- your choice. The personal edition of Red Hat 8 sells for $40 in stores, or you can download three CDs' worth at no charge (www.redhat.com) Nearly all Linux programs are also free to use. Two, Linux is free in another way: "Open source" means anybody can look at a program's code and tinker with it. Three, if you are inclined to tinker and try out new programs, Linux can be an interesting place. It's one of the most customizable operating systems, and quite a few Linux development projects -- for example, DVD playback -- seem to be hitting their stride. Four, while Linux has plenty of bugs and security issues, it is virus-free compared with Windows. All these qualities come with trade-offs, the big one being an often agonizing inscrutability. Red Hat 8 doesn't abolish these shortcomings but does bring them to a more manageable level. Its installation is quick and clean. Notwithstanding a clumsy disk-setup module (either partition your hard drive with another program or be prepared to wipe it clean), you can blithely go with the default settings and have a working desktop in less than 45 minutes. That includes functioning audio and video hardware, something beyond my reach in earlier Linux experiments. On each of three test PCs -- an old IBM desktop, a moderately recent IBM ThinkPad T21 and a brand-new Hewlett-Packard Media Center PC -- Red Hat 8 automatically and correctly set up the sound and graphics cards. It then accepted a digital-subscriber-line or office-network connection with no more configuration than Windows would require, and with the proper firewall protection enabled by default. A modem connection, unfortunately but predictably, was out of the question. Most PCs' internal modems require some fairly complicated, proprietary Windows software to function, and many manufacturers don't offer Linux versions of this software or documentation that would let other programmers handle the job. Red Hat 8 also couldn't do anything with the USB 2.0 ports on the HP, although it's supposed to support them. Red Hat 8's biggest departure from Linux convention is in its look. The company replaced the usual Linux front end with its own streamlined "Bluecurve" interface, which looks vaguely like Windows XP scrubbed of the neon colors. It also swept the system task bar and menu largely free of redundant or useless extras, although it lacks a simple way to edit the layout of those menus (say, if you'd like to consolidate the five or so system-options entries). Red Hat's software bundle focuses on the basics: the excellent Mozilla Web browser, the OpenOffice productivity suite (which read all of the Microsoft Office files I tried), and Evolution, an application featuring e-mail, an address book and a calendar that feels like a simplified version of Microsoft Outlook. What you won't find, however, is multimedia capability beyond a few image viewers and editors. Red Hat 8 ships without any way to play MP3 files, let alone create them. The company says it's concerned about the MP3 format's licensing requirements, but those issues haven't stopped other Linux distributions from including MP3 software. (Red Hat 8 does support an open-source music format called Ogg Vorbis, but its CD-ripping program isn't set up by default to use it.) MP3 software isn't hard to find and install in the "RPM" download format Red Hat developed, but you have to know where to look. And that's the thing: Red Hat 8 gets enough of the basics right to let you go online without injuring yourself (well, provided you don't need a modem). It could serve somebody well as a basic Web, e-mail and word-processing desktop. But going beyond the basics requires a willingness to learn. For instance, Red Hat 8's included digital-camera program took hours of tweaking before it would intermittently download pictures from a Canon S100 digital camera. I still can't get the Pilot-Link program to work with a Sony Clie handheld, although an upcoming release is supposed to fix that. Non-RPM software installs, which require mastering command-line syntax, are another problem. Sometimes things work out -- copying and pasting the right commands had the ThinkPad playing back a DVD in about half an hour -- and at other times you're stymied by missing or mismatched files. And many add-on programs, unlike Red Hat's core software, come with clumsy, user-hostile interfaces designed by programmers for other programmers. Ultimately, there's no substitute for personal help from a Linux veteran, whether online or in a local user group. All this self-inflicted effort might seem like a big waste of time. Then again, so can cooking, woodworking, collecting baseball cards or many other things people do to amuse themselves, and without getting a working PC in the process. Living with technology, or trying to? E-mail Rob Pegoraro at rob(a)twp.com. -- ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø Karl Hiramoto <karl(a)hiramoto.org> Work: 978-425-2090 ext 25 Cell: 508-517-4819 Personal web page: http://karl.hiramoto.org/ Freedom: http://www.technojihad.com/ Zoop Productions: http://www.zoop.org/ KTEQ Rapid City: http://www.kteq.org/ AOL IM ID = KarlH420 Yahoo_IM = karl_hiramoto ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø I have more hit points that you can possible imagine.

Dec. 2, 2002

Re: [Wlug] Let's make WLUG meetings better!

by Wesley Allen

The LAN idea would be neat, a freeswan tutorial would be nice, as I've not had time to figure out how to set it up. Wes On Sat, 2002-11-30 at 18:55, Andy Stewart wrote: > > HI everybody, > > I was a little disappointed at the turnout from the last WLUG meeting. We had > 8 or 9 people show up, and while we did have a good time watching Scott and > Doug get a couple of scanners working under Linux, it would have been alot > more fun with more people in attendance. I believe this was the lowest > attendance we've seen at a WLUG meeting in our 5.5 year history. :-( > > We discussed possible reasons for the low attendance at the Boynton over a few > beers. > > One suggestion was that I should update the WLUG website to show what we have > done at past meetings so people wouldn't think that nothing was accomplished. > I've done that and will endeavor to keep that part of the WLUG website > current (see "Past Meeting Information"). > > Another thought was that some people will only come to a meeting if the topic > looks interesting to them, and if it is announced well in advance. I must > admit to having been somewhat lax in that area lately. > > Therefore, in an attempt to remedy that (at least for this month), I'm putting > out the call now for a speaker and a topic for the Dec. 12th meeting (its > coming up fast!). I sent out a list of potential topics last month, but I > know that there are a zilliion interesting things happening in the Linux > world that could be discussed at a WLUG meeting. > > The meeting need not be discussion based, either! Although Kinnicutt Hall > lends itself well to this type of meeting, we do have access to other rooms > on campus. > > People have tossed out ideas such as these: > > o build a network for multiplayer Linux games > > o build a network to see if WLUG crackers can break into your system (not to > destroy it, but to teach you what to fix to secure your system) > > o more live demos! > > The group exists to meet your needs, so please, state your needs! I can't > arrange a meeting to your liking if I get no feedback on what you want to see > at future WLUG meetings. > > More importantly, I'd like to see more and different people volunteer to do > the presentations or to run a live demo. If you look back at the last year > of WLUG meetings, you'll see the same names many times. While I'm *quite* > happy that these folks continue to volunteer, I'd like to see others jump in > also. > > Finally, if anybody has feedback regarding the last meeting and why it lacked > attendees, please bring it up on the list so we can all discuss it. Without > such candid discussions, WLUG cannot improve. > > Later, > > Andy > > -- > Andy Stewart, Founder > Worcester Linux Users' Group > Worcester, MA USA > http://www.wlug.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

Dec. 1, 2002

Let's make WLUG meetings better!

by Andy Stewart

HI everybody, I was a little disappointed at the turnout from the last WLUG meeting. We had 8 or 9 people show up, and while we did have a good time watching Scott and Doug get a couple of scanners working under Linux, it would have been alot more fun with more people in attendance. I believe this was the lowest attendance we've seen at a WLUG meeting in our 5.5 year history. :-( We discussed possible reasons for the low attendance at the Boynton over a few beers. One suggestion was that I should update the WLUG website to show what we have done at past meetings so people wouldn't think that nothing was accomplished. I've done that and will endeavor to keep that part of the WLUG website current (see "Past Meeting Information"). Another thought was that some people will only come to a meeting if the topic looks interesting to them, and if it is announced well in advance. I must admit to having been somewhat lax in that area lately. Therefore, in an attempt to remedy that (at least for this month), I'm putting out the call now for a speaker and a topic for the Dec. 12th meeting (its coming up fast!). I sent out a list of potential topics last month, but I know that there are a zilliion interesting things happening in the Linux world that could be discussed at a WLUG meeting. The meeting need not be discussion based, either! Although Kinnicutt Hall lends itself well to this type of meeting, we do have access to other rooms on campus. People have tossed out ideas such as these: o build a network for multiplayer Linux games o build a network to see if WLUG crackers can break into your system (not to destroy it, but to teach you what to fix to secure your system) o more live demos! The group exists to meet your needs, so please, state your needs! I can't arrange a meeting to your liking if I get no feedback on what you want to see at future WLUG meetings. More importantly, I'd like to see more and different people volunteer to do the presentations or to run a live demo. If you look back at the last year of WLUG meetings, you'll see the same names many times. While I'm *quite* happy that these folks continue to volunteer, I'd like to see others jump in also. Finally, if anybody has feedback regarding the last meeting and why it lacked attendees, please bring it up on the list so we can all discuss it. Without such candid discussions, WLUG cannot improve. Later, Andy -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org

Nov. 30, 2002

Re: [Wlug] more alphabet soup :-(

by Robert L Krawitz

I wound up not buying a DVD writer at all. Micro Center had a Buslink 48x12x48 (which when I opened it up turned out to be a 48x24x48) for $20, and both Micro Center and Best Buy had really good deals on CD-R's. I'm nervous enough about the mess of formats that I don't feel like spending $300 on something that might be completely worthless in 6 months. CD-R's have been around a while and are completely standard. At that price, I'll put up with the inconvenience. If I use gzip rather than bzip2 compression, I think things will be fast enough so that backups won't be that much of an annoyance. -- Robert Krawitz <rlk(a)alum.mit.edu> Tall Clubs International -- http://www.tall.org/ or 1-888-IM-TALL-2 Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- mail lpf(a)uunet.uu.net Project lead for Gimp Print -- http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net "Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works." --Eric Crampton

Nov. 29, 2002

more alphabet soup :-(

by doug waud

Hi again Just got the latest PC Magazine and I note that my table of CD/DVD acronyms (plagarized from PC World) is already out of date. :-) Now we have CD-MRW where the M refers to Mount Ranier. Although "there have been no specific announcements of DVD+MRW drives yet, Phillips recently proposed an addition ... The Sony DRU-500A apparently ships with Mount Ranier. (The Mount Ranier format put a Main defect table in the Lead-in area (area outside the data area) and a copy of the defect table in the lead-out area.It also sets aside some space in the data area as a "replacement area" where date which would have landed in a bad block is put. The price is somewhat slower reads/writes and slightly reduced capacity. The gain is reliability. Non-MRW drives will need custom software to read MRW data.) doug

Nov. 29, 2002

Re: [Wlug] DVD writeable media

by doug waud

Robert L Krawitz wrote: > Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:20:42 -0500 > From: doug waud <douglas.waud(a)umassmed.edu> > > Type Can be written to by drives of type > > DVD-RW DVD+RW DVD-RW/+RW DVD-RAM/-R/-RW DVD-RAM/-R > > DVD-R yes no yes yes yes > DVD-RW yes no yes yes no > > Defct Mngmt Max Rewrites Seq/Rand Data/video? > > no n/a seq video > no 1000 seq data > > Why is DVD-R listed as video only, and DVD-RW as data only? > > -- > Robert Krawitz <rlk(a)alum.mit.edu> As I implied in my first posting I am just passing this info on; I am not including any thought. :-) Seriously, I can't tell from the article why this is the case. They do note that "DVD-RW format leaves disk formatting up to the software .... must perform a full disk format --- which can take an hour --- before you can start writing to the disk". Perhaps they feel this investment of time is beyond the attention span of those who watch TV. :-) I can also speculate that the ability to rewrite the DVD-RW may have tipped them in favor of it for data. Perhaps all that we are seeing is the problems that arise when you try to force data into a tabular format. :-) Take your pick/and-or make your own guess! doug

Nov. 29, 2002

Re: [Wlug] DVD writeable media

by Robert L Krawitz

Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:20:42 -0500 From: doug waud <douglas.waud(a)umassmed.edu> Type Can be written to by drives of type DVD-RW DVD+RW DVD-RW/+RW DVD-RAM/-R/-RW DVD-RAM/-R DVD-R yes no yes yes yes DVD-RW yes no yes yes no Defct Mngmt Max Rewrites Seq/Rand Data/video? no n/a seq video no 1000 seq data Why is DVD-R listed as video only, and DVD-RW as data only? -- Robert Krawitz <rlk(a)alum.mit.edu> Tall Clubs International -- http://www.tall.org/ or 1-888-IM-TALL-2 Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- mail lpf(a)uunet.uu.net Project lead for Gimp Print -- http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net "Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works." --Eric Crampton

Nov. 28, 2002

quota on RH 8.0

by Aramico

Hi All, I've got a problem here..... On RedHat 8, I tried to implement quota. I have created the aquota.user on / and the other define directory. ..and I have reconfigure the /etc/fstab and wrote the tag in order to enable the quota. When I'm tryin to run quotacheck -avug, there is a notifications as shown bellow : quotacheck: WARNING - Quotafile //aquota.user was probably truncated. Can't save quota settings... quotacheck: WARNING - Quotafile //aquota.group was probably truncated. Can't save quota settings... quotacheck: Cannot remount filesystem mounted on / read-only so counted values might not be right. Please stop all programs writing to filesystem or use -m flag to force checking. what was wrong here ? can somebody tell me how to implement the quota here ? I want to know the diffrence to the thing that I've done. Thanks.

Nov. 27, 2002

Re: [Wlug] DVD writeable media

by doug waud

Andy Stewart wrote: > > The message thread about DVD writers makes me think that there are many > standards or types of writeable DVD media that not all drives can handle > - is > this true? > > Could somebody compare/contrast the different types? That PCWorld article I mentioned earlier in this thread has a nice table. The first step is to note that there are three pairs: DVD-R and DVD-RW DVD+R and DVD+RW CD-R and CD-RW plus one single, DVD-RAM which (so far) has no RW sibling. (I include CD's to emphasize the pattern) That article also has a table: Type Can be written to by drives of type DVD-RW DVD+RW DVD-RW/+RW DVD-RAM/-R/-RW DVD-RAM/-R DVD-R yes no yes yes yes DVD+R no yes yes no no CD-R yes yes yes yes no DVD-RW yes no yes yes no DVD+RW no yes yes no no DVD-RAM no no no yes yes CD-RW yes yes yes yes no and with same rows: Capac Cost Cartrige? Quick Format Data verifn 4.7GB $4 no n/a no 4.7 5 no n/a no 700MB 1 no n/a no 4.7 6 no optional no 4.7 7 no yes no 4.7* 15 yes** n/a*** yes 700 1 no no no and still with same rows: Defct Mngmt Max Rewrites Seq/Rand Data/video? no n/a seq video no n/a seq video no n/a seq video & data no 1000 seq data yes**** 1000 seq data yes 100,000 random data no 1000 seq data * double sided gives 9.4 GB ** disks also available w/o cartridges on a spindle *** DVD-RAM disks are preformatted **** only on Mount Ranier writes which are not supported by most drives Hope the formatting survives! :-) doug

Nov. 25, 2002

Re: [Wlug] DVD writeable media

by Robert L Krawitz

From: "Keller, Tim" <Tim.Keller(a)stratus.com> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:48:44 -0500 Well the next question is... What do you want todo... The cross post in question wants to backup large amounts of data. I would think a drive that could do DVD-RW or DVD+RW would be their choice since they could setup some sorta rotation. As for supported drives you'd want to check the cdrecord website. Actually, I *don't* want to set up a rotation. I want permanent, long-term storage. These things are pretty cheap now ($5 or thereabouts); 2-4 of these per month, plus maybe one more for weekly incrementals, isn't going to bankrupt me. Now, if you want to make backups of the DVD's that you own, or convert the VHS you've got into DVD, you'll also want a drive that can author DVD disks. However you'll want to check a site like www.vcdhelper.org they've got a good matrix of what different disks DVD players supports (such as VCD/SVCD/DVD-R/DVD-RW/etc...) Personally, I'm too disgusted at the entertainment-retail complex to really even want to bother with these things in the first place (left to myself, I wouldn't even bother owning a TV these days). -- Robert Krawitz <rlk(a)alum.mit.edu> Tall Clubs International -- http://www.tall.org/ or 1-888-IM-TALL-2 Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- mail lpf(a)uunet.uu.net Project lead for Gimp Print -- http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net "Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works." --Eric Crampton

Nov. 25, 2002