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Re: [Wlug] Xinerama issues with Fedora Core 8...

by Jamie Guinan

Can you downgrade the individual driver(s)? See this thread from this morning, http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2007-November/030311.html -Jamie On Mon, 19 Nov 2007, Tim Keller wrote: > So... if I'm reading this right... I'm stuck then... since I have monitors > on separate video cards. > > I know it's cool that xrandr can do all this funky stuff, but I'd just be > happy to keep existing functionality. > > What are my options now... downgrade my X server? > > On Nov 19, 2007 1:34 PM, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > > > On Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 01:07:54PM -0500, Tim Keller wrote: > > > As far as I can tell... Xinerama support is totally borked in Fedora > > Core > > > 8. Has anybody come across any solutions? > > > > Xinerama is no longer supported in Xorg. But not to fear! It has > > been replaced by a new, dynamic method of doing dual-head with the > > XRandR extension. Unfortunately, neither the Release Notes nor the > > system-config-display tool have taken these changes into account. > > Also, this won't work with multiple separate video cards, only single > > video cards with multiple output on them. The fact that the X server > > segfaults when configured with Xinerama is a bug. > > > > You can turn on/off and configure multiple displays all dynamically > > using the xrandr command. Try this to display the available outputs > > while the X server is running: > > > > xrandr > > > > To configure a specific output, try these commands: > > > > xrandr --output DVI-1 --auto > > > > Or: > > > > xrandr --output DVI-1 --mode 1024x768 > > > > To configure dual-head (NOTE: You have to pre-configure the maximum > > combined virtual resolution you want to use in xorg.conf first, as > > specified below): > > > > xrandr --output DVI-1 --right-of DVI-0 > > > > This is nice because it means you can dynamically set up dual-head for > > an external VGA port on a laptop going to an LCD projector, for > > example. The internal LCD and external VGA could run at different > > resolutions too. > > > > For more fun, you can play with rotating screen images. > > > > You can also configure this in xorg.conf. The key differences from > > traditional multi-head and Xinerama are that you only use a single > > Screen in your ServerLayout section: > > > > Section "ServerLayout" > > Identifier "new dual-head configuration" > > Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 > > InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" > > EndSection > > > > Then refer to multiple monitors in the Device section. Here the > > format is Option "Monitor-<actual-monitor-id-from-xrandr>" > > "<monitor-identifier>" > > > > Section "Device" > > Identifier "Videocard0" > > Driver "radeon" > > Option "Monitor-DVI-0" "first" > > Option "Monitor-DVI-1" "second" > > EndSection > > > > Then specify the multiple Monitor sections themselves, using the > > monitor-identifiers specified above, with the placement options > > RightOf or LeftOf: > > > > Section "Monitor" > > Identifier "first" > > EndSection > > > > Section "Monitor" > > Identifier "second" > > Option "RightOf" "first" > > EndSection > > > > And then of course the single screen section. Note that you MUST > > specify the Virtual resolution as the sum of the resolutions of the > > multiple monitors you want to use (either horizontally or vertically, > > depending on your preferred monitor orientation). So below I have > > specified Virtual 3200 1200 so that I can place two 1600x1200 monitors > > side-by-side. The Monitor "first" is there just to satisfy the > > requirement for a Monitor to be specified--you don't put both monitors > > here. > > > > Section "Screen" > > Identifier "Screen0" > > Device "Videocard0" > > Monitor "first" > > DefaultDepth 24 > > SubSection "Display" > > Viewport 0 0 > > Virtual 3200 1200 > > Depth 24 > > Modes "1600x1200" "1600x1024" "1440x900" "1400x1050" > > "1360x768" "1280x1024" "1280x960" "1280x800" "1280x720" "1152x864" > > "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" > > EndSubSection > > EndSection > > _______________________________________________ > > Wlug mailing list > > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > > > -- > I am leary of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". >

Nov. 19, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Xinerama issues with Fedora Core 8...

by Chuck Anderson

On Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 03:25:19PM -0500, Tim Keller wrote: > So... if I'm reading this right... I'm stuck then... since I have monitors > on separate video cards. > > I know it's cool that xrandr can do all this funky stuff, but I'd just be > happy to keep existing functionality. > > What are my options now... downgrade my X server? I guess so... good luck getting an older Xorg to run on Fedora 8.

Nov. 19, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Xinerama issues with Fedora Core 8...

by Tim Keller

So... if I'm reading this right... I'm stuck then... since I have monitors on separate video cards. I know it's cool that xrandr can do all this funky stuff, but I'd just be happy to keep existing functionality. What are my options now... downgrade my X server? On Nov 19, 2007 1:34 PM, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > On Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 01:07:54PM -0500, Tim Keller wrote: > > As far as I can tell... Xinerama support is totally borked in Fedora > Core > > 8. Has anybody come across any solutions? > > Xinerama is no longer supported in Xorg. But not to fear! It has > been replaced by a new, dynamic method of doing dual-head with the > XRandR extension. Unfortunately, neither the Release Notes nor the > system-config-display tool have taken these changes into account. > Also, this won't work with multiple separate video cards, only single > video cards with multiple output on them. The fact that the X server > segfaults when configured with Xinerama is a bug. > > You can turn on/off and configure multiple displays all dynamically > using the xrandr command. Try this to display the available outputs > while the X server is running: > > xrandr > > To configure a specific output, try these commands: > > xrandr --output DVI-1 --auto > > Or: > > xrandr --output DVI-1 --mode 1024x768 > > To configure dual-head (NOTE: You have to pre-configure the maximum > combined virtual resolution you want to use in xorg.conf first, as > specified below): > > xrandr --output DVI-1 --right-of DVI-0 > > This is nice because it means you can dynamically set up dual-head for > an external VGA port on a laptop going to an LCD projector, for > example. The internal LCD and external VGA could run at different > resolutions too. > > For more fun, you can play with rotating screen images. > > You can also configure this in xorg.conf. The key differences from > traditional multi-head and Xinerama are that you only use a single > Screen in your ServerLayout section: > > Section "ServerLayout" > Identifier "new dual-head configuration" > Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 > InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" > EndSection > > Then refer to multiple monitors in the Device section. Here the > format is Option "Monitor-<actual-monitor-id-from-xrandr>" > "<monitor-identifier>" > > Section "Device" > Identifier "Videocard0" > Driver "radeon" > Option "Monitor-DVI-0" "first" > Option "Monitor-DVI-1" "second" > EndSection > > Then specify the multiple Monitor sections themselves, using the > monitor-identifiers specified above, with the placement options > RightOf or LeftOf: > > Section "Monitor" > Identifier "first" > EndSection > > Section "Monitor" > Identifier "second" > Option "RightOf" "first" > EndSection > > And then of course the single screen section. Note that you MUST > specify the Virtual resolution as the sum of the resolutions of the > multiple monitors you want to use (either horizontally or vertically, > depending on your preferred monitor orientation). So below I have > specified Virtual 3200 1200 so that I can place two 1600x1200 monitors > side-by-side. The Monitor "first" is there just to satisfy the > requirement for a Monitor to be specified--you don't put both monitors > here. > > Section "Screen" > Identifier "Screen0" > Device "Videocard0" > Monitor "first" > DefaultDepth 24 > SubSection "Display" > Viewport 0 0 > Virtual 3200 1200 > Depth 24 > Modes "1600x1200" "1600x1024" "1440x900" "1400x1050" > "1360x768" "1280x1024" "1280x960" "1280x800" "1280x720" "1152x864" > "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" > EndSubSection > EndSection > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > -- I am leary of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Nov. 19, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Information for Linux newbies?

by Brian A. Dewhirst

One of the most basic things that I had to learn with ubuntu was how to access the support which exists... and there is a lot of it on the web. Googling "howto ubuntu FOO" can kill half of my problems in the first ten hits. Synaptic and the Update manager etc. are also key. On Nov 19, 2007 1:32 PM, Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Kevin, > > I guess the question I would first ask is: "What's the technical > inclinations of the people you're going to be teaching?". > > If their geeks like us, then I'd go into using package managers and I'd talk > about the nitty gritty stuff. > > If their not geeks, then you need to take a different tact. Instead of > talking about linux as an operating system and extolling the virtues of open > source, instead talk about the applications that are available on linux and > how they stack up to what their already using. > > The games question is a sticky one... there are lots of cool games for > linux, any particular genre you're interested in? > > > > > On Nov 18, 2007 12:01 AM, Kevin Harrington < mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > As i mentioned at the meeting this past week I am going to be giving a > > seminar for linux newbies and would like to pull from people that > > know better then i do on what i should teach people. What i would like > > to know is: What are some things that you wish you had known as a > > newbie? Think back to your very first linux install and any > > short-cuts, tips, tricks, and gatcha's that would make peoples first > > experience easier. There is a lot of windows resentment after the slow > > trainwreck that is vista, so lets see if we can get a few new > > converts! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. one of the big concerns for a few people that i have talked to > > has been games, if anyone has a list of new-ish games that work or any > > tips specific to making the most recent generation work under linux, > > that would make things much easier ;) > > _______________________________________________ > > Wlug mailing list > > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > > > > -- > I am leary of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

Nov. 19, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Xinerama issues with Fedora Core 8...

by Chuck Anderson

On Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 01:07:54PM -0500, Tim Keller wrote: > As far as I can tell... Xinerama support is totally borked in Fedora Core > 8. Has anybody come across any solutions? Xinerama is no longer supported in Xorg. But not to fear! It has been replaced by a new, dynamic method of doing dual-head with the XRandR extension. Unfortunately, neither the Release Notes nor the system-config-display tool have taken these changes into account. Also, this won't work with multiple separate video cards, only single video cards with multiple output on them. The fact that the X server segfaults when configured with Xinerama is a bug. You can turn on/off and configure multiple displays all dynamically using the xrandr command. Try this to display the available outputs while the X server is running: xrandr To configure a specific output, try these commands: xrandr --output DVI-1 --auto Or: xrandr --output DVI-1 --mode 1024x768 To configure dual-head (NOTE: You have to pre-configure the maximum combined virtual resolution you want to use in xorg.conf first, as specified below): xrandr --output DVI-1 --right-of DVI-0 This is nice because it means you can dynamically set up dual-head for an external VGA port on a laptop going to an LCD projector, for example. The internal LCD and external VGA could run at different resolutions too. For more fun, you can play with rotating screen images. You can also configure this in xorg.conf. The key differences from traditional multi-head and Xinerama are that you only use a single Screen in your ServerLayout section: Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "new dual-head configuration" Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" EndSection Then refer to multiple monitors in the Device section. Here the format is Option "Monitor-<actual-monitor-id-from-xrandr>" "<monitor-identifier>" Section "Device" Identifier "Videocard0" Driver "radeon" Option "Monitor-DVI-0" "first" Option "Monitor-DVI-1" "second" EndSection Then specify the multiple Monitor sections themselves, using the monitor-identifiers specified above, with the placement options RightOf or LeftOf: Section "Monitor" Identifier "first" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "second" Option "RightOf" "first" EndSection And then of course the single screen section. Note that you MUST specify the Virtual resolution as the sum of the resolutions of the multiple monitors you want to use (either horizontally or vertically, depending on your preferred monitor orientation). So below I have specified Virtual 3200 1200 so that I can place two 1600x1200 monitors side-by-side. The Monitor "first" is there just to satisfy the requirement for a Monitor to be specified--you don't put both monitors here. Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Videocard0" Monitor "first" DefaultDepth 24 SubSection "Display" Viewport 0 0 Virtual 3200 1200 Depth 24 Modes "1600x1200" "1600x1024" "1440x900" "1400x1050" "1360x768" "1280x1024" "1280x960" "1280x800" "1280x720" "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection EndSection

Nov. 19, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Information for Linux newbies?

by Tim Keller

Kevin, I guess the question I would first ask is: "What's the technical inclinations of the people you're going to be teaching?". If their geeks like us, then I'd go into using package managers and I'd talk about the nitty gritty stuff. If their not geeks, then you need to take a different tact. Instead of talking about linux as an operating system and extolling the virtues of open source, instead talk about the applications that are available on linux and how they stack up to what their already using. The games question is a sticky one... there are lots of cool games for linux, any particular genre you're interested in? On Nov 18, 2007 12:01 AM, Kevin Harrington <mad.hephaestus(a)gmail.com> wrote: > As i mentioned at the meeting this past week I am going to be giving a > seminar for linux newbies and would like to pull from people that > know better then i do on what i should teach people. What i would like > to know is: What are some things that you wish you had known as a > newbie? Think back to your very first linux install and any > short-cuts, tips, tricks, and gatcha's that would make peoples first > experience easier. There is a lot of windows resentment after the slow > trainwreck that is vista, so lets see if we can get a few new > converts! > > > > > > > > P.S. one of the big concerns for a few people that i have talked to > has been games, if anyone has a list of new-ish games that work or any > tips specific to making the most recent generation work under linux, > that would make things much easier ;) > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > -- I am leary of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Nov. 19, 2007

Xinerama issues with Fedora Core 8...

by Tim Keller

Hey Gang, I had a perfectly working Fedora Core 6 system and I had to go mess things up... I backed up my whole system and did a clean install of Fedora Core 8, only to find that my >old< xorg.conf config doesn't work anymore... I was able to get a config finally working, but only on a single monitor. Here's my setup: Screen 1: DELL LCD panel connected to an onboard AGP intel video card Screen 2: DELL LCD panel connected to a PCI ATI Radeon video card Now, I have config files that'll drive one or the other, but not both. The moment I enable Xinerama, the X server crashes with a signal 11. As far as I can tell... Xinerama support is totally borked in Fedora Core 8. Has anybody come across any solutions? Thanks, Tim. -- I am leary of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Nov. 19, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Linux Choix?

by Lee Keyser-Allen

Colin, No need to apologize. It may help you to understand what Parallels does, though, so you can figure out whether it's appropriate for you. The first piece of information that may be helpful is that, while it was originally for the Mac, and its best supported platform is still the Mac, it can run on both Windows and Linux. What Parallels (and software like it) does is to create a virtual computer that can run on your currently installed OS. VMWare is (I think) the commercial pioneer in this field, and is perhaps still the most well known. What this means, in practice, though is that you are not really getting away from Windows, since you are actually running a full copy of windows in its own sandbox. Think of it as running a dual-boot machine, except that you don't have to reboot your native OS to start running the 'Virtual' one. The advantage of this is that you can run virtually *any* windows app (including most games ... although the performance can suffer) in your Linux (or NT/XP or Mac) machine. Generally speaking, however, this is not really a final solution for most people. You still are running windows, and as such must pay for the license and deal with the flakiness. It is sometimes a reasonable interim step when you have applications that simply do not play well (or at all) on Linux. There are also side-benefits with this sort of setup, involving easily saving and restoring configurations and operating environments, and from what I've seen of Parallels, the nested OS is still pretty responsive (this is in sharp contrast to the first time I ran VMWare about 7 years ago ... it was not fast, although it was *very* cool :) ) I hope that that is a (relatively) clear explanation of how that works. Feel free to e-mail me on or off list if you have any other questions. Cheers, Lee On Nov 17, 2007 10:59 PM, Colin Novick <c-novick-1(a)alumni.uchicago.edu> wrote: > Apologies. Deepest even. > > Before anyone needs to chastise me I looked it up and OS X is more Next and > other sources than Linux per se. > > Apparently Parallels on OS X will run Win and Lin, but the underlying OS is > OS X and does not imply that ArcGIS would be stably emulated by a Linux > machine emulating Win. > > Sorry. > > Hope not to have too terribly offended in my ignorance. > > Colin > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > -- Lee Keyser-Allen (lkeyser(a)alum.wpi.edu)

Nov. 19, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Linux Choix?

by Richard Klein

On Nov 17, 2007 10:59 PM, Colin Novick <c-novick-1(a)alumni.uchicago.edu> wrote: > > Before anyone needs to chastise me I looked it up and OS X is more Next and > other sources than Linux per se. Not to chastise you, but I wanted a definitive answer, so I turned to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mac_OS_X#Development_outside_of_App…) "NeXTSTEP was based on the Mach kernel and BSD, an implementation of Unix dating back to the 1970s. Perhaps more remarkably, it featured an object-oriented programming framework based on the Objective-C language. This environment is known today in the Mac world as Cocoa. It also supported the innovative Enterprise Objects Framework database access layer and WebObjects application server development environment, among other notable features. All but abandoning the idea of an operating system, NeXT managed to maintain a business selling WebObjects and consulting services, but was never a commercial success. NeXTSTEP underwent an evolution into OPENSTEP which separated the object layers from the operating system below, allowing it to run with less modification on other platforms. OPENSTEP was, for a short time, adopted by Sun Microsystems. However, by this point, a number of other companies — notably Apple, IBM, Microsoft, and even Sun itself — were claiming they would soon be releasing similar object-oriented operating systems and development tools of their own. (Some of these efforts, such as Taligent, did not fully come to fruition; others, like Java, gained widespread adoption.) Following an announcement on December 20, 1996,[1] on February 4, 1997 Apple Computer acquired NeXT for $427 million, and used OPENSTEP as the basis for Mac OS X.[2] Traces of the NeXT software heritage can still be seen in Mac OS X. For example, in the Cocoa development environment, the Objective-C library classes have "NS" prefixes, and the HISTORY section of the manual page for the defaults command in Mac OS X straightforwardly states that the command "First appeared in NeXTStep."" So, yes, OS X is based on OPENSTEP, an evolution of NeXTSTEP. And it's based on BSD. And it's based on Mach. -- Rich

Nov. 18, 2007

Re: [Wlug] Information for Linux newbies?

by Andy Stewart

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Kevin Harrington wrote: > As i mentioned at the meeting this past week I am going to be giving a > seminar for linux newbies and would like to pull from people that > know better then i do on what i should teach people. What i would like > to know is: What are some things that you wish you had known as a > newbie? Think back to your very first linux install and any > short-cuts, tips, tricks, and gatcha's that would make peoples first > experience easier. There is a lot of windows resentment after the slow > trainwreck that is vista, so lets see if we can get a few new > converts! Hi Kevin, When I was a newbie, Linux live CDs didn't yet exist, but they do now! I find the Knoppix CD/DVD useful for testing a new piece of hardware (like a laptop) to see if all of the pieces work with Linux. I believe that the Ubuntu CDs can also boot up in a live mode. In this way, you can try Linux without messing with your hard drive, and also see if your hardware works with that distribution. Note that if something doesn't work with the live CD, that doesn't necessarily mean it won't work with Linux at all, but demonstrating that something *does* work is a good thing. Just a thought... So, when are you resurrecting WPILA?! :-) Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group (http://www.wlug.org) Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group (http://linux.meetup.com/393) Amateur Radio: KB1OIQ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHP8pAHl0iXDssISsRAkIlAJ9jTYAhCb3UkpsR7d1A4AWtufiv4wCgiICP 1T+k0toR3pc9MyRrDjSM2PE= =oBFq -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Nov. 18, 2007