- WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

Re: [Wlug] Red Hat vs SuSE....

by John Stoffel

Just a quick suggestion, but could you please re-insert the mail header for "Sender:" so it's easy to sort out WLUG email from other stuff? Thanks, John John Stoffel - Senior Unix Systems Administrator - Lucent Technologies stoffel(a)lucent.com - http://www.lucent.com - 978-952-7548

Nov. 6, 2003

RE: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show...

by Keller, Tim

I agree with both what you and Matthew both said. So, I think our new groupings should be 1. Novice Users 2. Intermediate Users 3. Advanced Users 4. Educational Users I've dropped the suits off the map because they don't really apply (in this context). I think maybe we should focus on the Novice and Intermediate users first. Then focus on the Educational users second and then maybe due hyper focused treatments for the advanced users. Thanks, Tim. -----Original Message----- From: mlong(a)datalong.com [mailto:mlong@datalong.com] Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 10:57 AM To: Worcester Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show... > The first group are novice users. These are people who use a computer, but > the concept of an operating system or the idea that windows isn't just "part > of the system" and not removable is alien. > I would suggest there is an "intermediate users group. This group is not afraid to play around with different OS's, hardware and software and know how to configure their software of choice. However they rely heavily on configuration tools to apply much of the digital glue to make their systems usable and/or secure. > The second group is "advanced" users. I think most of us would fall into > this group. We understand OS's, hardware, software and all the digital glue > that holds it together. > > The third group is educational users. These would be people who work in > some education institution and they're interest in linux would be from the > standpoint of deploying it for cost savings and/or using it as an education > tool for teaching. > > The forth group would be corporate suit types. These are the people who > read the trade rags, but don't have a clear understanding of what linux. > They've read lots of conflicting FUD on the subject and aren't sure how > linux could be used in they're environment or what the real TCO would be. --mike _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Nov. 6, 2003

RE: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show...

by Simoncini, Matthew

Tim, I would have to say I agree with your "user grouping" for the most part, but feel (IMHO) that there might be a group of people that fall between the novice and advanced users, lets call them the "hobbyist group". These people know how to use a computer, have probably "dabbled" in linux, but need some help performing certain tasks or need convincing on turning the corner and using linux full time. This is an important group because a) I'm a member of this group :o) and b) members of this group know the value of linux, but want to make sure they can do everything they want to do in linux i.e. listen to MP3's, burn CD's, browse the web, be able to use a word processor, etc .... I think that the general idea of spreading the linux word is a great idea especially on a visible medium, but the most value would be added if the largest user group is targeted. So, in a nutshell, I think you guys have a great idea and I hope to watch you guys on TV sometime soon. Matthew > -----Original Message----- > From: Keller, Tim [mailto:Tim.Keller@stratus.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 10:39 AM > To: 'wlug(a)wlug.org' > Subject: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show... > > > For those who didn't attend the meeting last night, we talked > a little about > the idea of producing a linux focused TV Show. From that > discussion we > decided that the best thing to-do would be to have the main > part of the > discussion through the mail list. > > So, here it is... > > Firstly, I think we need to decide who our target audience > is. This morning > I came up with notion that generally, users can be broken into several > groups. > > The first group are novice users. These are people who use a > computer, but > the concept of an operating system or the idea that windows > isn't just "part > of the system" and not removable is alien. > > The second group is "advanced" users. I think most of us > would fall into > this group. We understand OS's, hardware, software and all > the digital glue > that holds it together. > > The third group is educational users. These would be people > who work in > some education institution and they're interest in linux > would be from the > standpoint of deploying it for cost savings and/or using it > as an education > tool for teaching. > > The forth group would be corporate suit types. These are the > people who > read the trade rags, but don't have a clear understanding of > what linux. > They've read lots of conflicting FUD on the subject and > aren't sure how > linux could be used in they're environment or what the real > TCO would be. > > Personally, I think we should go after groups 1-3. The > reason I'm not too > worried about the fourth type is that now that redhat had decided that > they're going to go full force into the enterprise > environment, they'll be > busy spending lots of PR dollars convincing the suits. > > What do people think. Also, if it is the consensus that we > should focus on > groups 1-3, should we narrow our focus even more? > > Thanks, > Tim. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

Nov. 6, 2003

Re: [Wlug] W.L.U.G. TV show...

by mlong＠datalong.com

> The first group are novice users. These are people who use a computer, but > the concept of an operating system or the idea that windows isn't just "part > of the system" and not removable is alien. > I would suggest there is an "intermediate users group. This group is not afraid to play around with different OS's, hardware and software and know how to configure their software of choice. However they rely heavily on configuration tools to apply much of the digital glue to make their systems usable and/or secure. > The second group is "advanced" users. I think most of us would fall into > this group. We understand OS's, hardware, software and all the digital glue > that holds it together. > > The third group is educational users. These would be people who work in > some education institution and they're interest in linux would be from the > standpoint of deploying it for cost savings and/or using it as an education > tool for teaching. > > The forth group would be corporate suit types. These are the people who > read the trade rags, but don't have a clear understanding of what linux. > They've read lots of conflicting FUD on the subject and aren't sure how > linux could be used in they're environment or what the real TCO would be. --mike

Nov. 6, 2003

W.L.U.G. TV show...

by Keller, Tim

For those who didn't attend the meeting last night, we talked a little about the idea of producing a linux focused TV Show. From that discussion we decided that the best thing to-do would be to have the main part of the discussion through the mail list. So, here it is... Firstly, I think we need to decide who our target audience is. This morning I came up with notion that generally, users can be broken into several groups. The first group are novice users. These are people who use a computer, but the concept of an operating system or the idea that windows isn't just "part of the system" and not removable is alien. The second group is "advanced" users. I think most of us would fall into this group. We understand OS's, hardware, software and all the digital glue that holds it together. The third group is educational users. These would be people who work in some education institution and they're interest in linux would be from the standpoint of deploying it for cost savings and/or using it as an education tool for teaching. The forth group would be corporate suit types. These are the people who read the trade rags, but don't have a clear understanding of what linux. They've read lots of conflicting FUD on the subject and aren't sure how linux could be used in they're environment or what the real TCO would be. Personally, I think we should go after groups 1-3. The reason I'm not too worried about the fourth type is that now that redhat had decided that they're going to go full force into the enterprise environment, they'll be busy spending lots of PR dollars convincing the suits. What do people think. Also, if it is the consensus that we should focus on groups 1-3, should we narrow our focus even more? Thanks, Tim.

Nov. 6, 2003

Red Hat vs SuSE....

by Bill Smith

okay. I'm sure that I'm not the only one that has been following the goings-on with respect to Red Hat (dropping the Personal Edition in favor of Fedora) and SuSE (being bought by Novell). I am looking for some honest advice here. I am NOT trying to start a flame war or a distro war. I will honestly take suggestions. I am running Aurora Linux on a Sun SPARCstation 10 (it's based on RH7.3) and RH9 on my laptop (Gateway Solo 9100) right now. I have been running Red Hat on my systems since 5.x. given what I have seen in the news, I think it is time to consider another distro, though. Here are my thoughts so far: I am feeling a bit underwhelmed with what i've been reading about Fedora from RH's website and from Aurora's list. I can't say with any level of certainty that I will stay and shift to Fedora. I will likely shift to another distro, though. I'm not considering Debian at the moment because I don't think that it moves quickly enough to keep up with updated stuff. Perhaps that is a flawed perception, but I don't look kindly on installing a baseline (from the CD) and spending a month of Sundays running apt-get to update everything. The last time i played with SuSE was around 1997 or 1998. I got the SuSE disc from CheapBytes so I could play with it. I liked the tools that it had (YaST was just getting ready to shift to YaST2, i think), but I didn't like the fact that many of the libraries were a couple versions behind what my favorite applications (of the day) wanted to find. I am actually favoring SuSE right now, if I can get what i need on CDs. (Andy, do you have any suggestions?) I cut my eye-teeth on Slackware back when Linux was still at 0.99pl10. My Dad sent me a box of floppies that had everything i'd need to get started. I had a blast! I don't know about Slackware now. I have not been following them (at all) since I shifted to RH all those years ago. Gentoo is not even being considered right now. My fastest system is a P2/400, and that is running Win98se. (My wife uses it to play the Sims. Games are all Win* is good for anyway.) My fastest *nix box is my laptop, and that's a P2/266. I don't have the time nor the resources to (re?)compile everything to suit my system. Given these thoughts, the Debian and Gentoo folk should understand that my opinions, as stated above, are open to change. Show me where i misunderstood, and i will thank you. :) I'm just looking for a Distro that will let me install my system with a minimum of pain, let me tweak where I want, when i want, and provides a neat way to keep things up to date (think security, etc.).... I've gotten used to the RPM system of archives, but I prefer tarballs. I have this "thing" about putting anything I add to the system in /usr/local .... :) Thanks for any advice. Best regards, -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- William Smith wsmith-at-chezsmith-dot-com Fall River, MA http://www.chezsmith.com Bad Joke #2 -- Q: How many Real Men does it take to change a lightbulb? A: None. Real Men aren't afraid of the dark. * TAG! v3.1 *

Nov. 6, 2003

Re: [Wlug] List is back

by Bill Smith

Le Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:41:59 -0500, « Frank Sweetser <fs(a)WPI.EDU> » a écrit: FS> A few days ago, the mail server for the WLUG list ate it's hard FS> drives. Luckily, none of the WLUG subscriber data was lost. The FS> machine has been rebuilt, and full list service should be restored. FS> If anyone has any problem at all with the list, please let me know FS> and I'll see what I can do. Don't take this the wrong way, but i'm almost glad it was down for a couple days. i was unable to get to my email for a little more than a week. When i finally got to it tonight, i had "only" 460 messages... it would have been quite a bit more than that, had WLUG's list been active.... :) Great work, though, bringing it back! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- William Smith wsmith-at-chezsmith-dot-com Fall River, MA http://www.chezsmith.com "Art is man's nature: Nature is God's art." -- Philip James Bailey (1816-1902); English poet * TAG! v3.1 *

Nov. 6, 2003

Re: [Wlug] upgrading suse 7.2 to 8.1

by doug waud

Hi Gregory Avedissian wrote: > I'm getting ready to upgrade from SuSE 7.2 to 8.1, and I have a little > confusion and some questions. > > I'm going from 7.2 pro edition to 8.1 personal edition. Any ideas what's > missing in the personal edition? Up to version 7 SuSE used to list this comparison right on the box. Your old 7.2 box should give a reasonably good idea of what the general differnces are. The URL will give the same for 9 http://www.suse.de/en/private/products/suse_linux/i386/packages.html I could not find the equivalent for 8.x :-( > Attempting to replace what is installed, I get a list of conflicts, with > advice to delete the old program, even if they don't have a replacement. > I was surprised to see that balsa and gftp were listed as not having > newer versions. Is this because they're not on the personal edition? I > know they exist, because they're available at rpmfind I am running 8.2 on this notebook I am writing on now and locate comes up with both balsa and gftp (under Yast as uninstalled) so I suspect they are just not on the personal edition. Also the 9.0 URL above explicitly lists both in the professional and neither in the personal edition. > The real issue - > XFree 4.x doesn't seem to want to recognize my ELSA GLoria-L video card. > Sax2 will run in 640x480 only, and I can't get it to run with the glint > driver (the one that's supposed to work with this card). I tried doing > this with the SuSE 8.2 evaluation disk, and I'm running into the same > problems I had when I tried to upgrade to XFree 4.1 about a month ago. > > So here's the question - > Can I upgrade to 8.1 without upgrading XFree? Better yet, if I upgrade > the XFree, and it doesn't work, is there an easy way to return to the > older version by using the CD's. Or do I have to manually back up > /usr/X11R6 and /etc/X11 first, and then recopy them to get back to the > older version? Will the rest of the SuSE 8.1 be pissed off about using > XFree 3.3.6? I am "underwhelmed" by Sax2's ability to get XFree right. I have just been upgrading my desktop to SuSE 8.2 and the screen was all screwed up. I finally went into /etc/X11/XF86Config and found that it seemed to think my 1Meg video memory (I'm the last of the big time spenders!} was 8 Meg. I just put a VideoRam 1024 in the Device section, dd'd a couple of 1280x1024 modes, defaulted to 8bit color depth, and X then ran fine. I believe you always have the choice of running either 4.x or 3.x but confess I forget how you tell the beast which one to use. :-). I would be very suprised if you could not get 4.x to work, but if that really turns out to be the case, let me know and I'll root around and see if I can recall the trick for forcing ti to use 3.x. > I suppose I could change the vid card, but I'd rather not spend any > money, That's my sort of guy! > and since this one is listed as working, I'd like to be able to > get it to work. And, as indicated above, you should be able to. doug PS The WLUG meeting tonight is a good place to get help from real experts, for example, Andy Whatshisname, and others more knowledgable than I.

Nov. 5, 2003

upgrading suse 7.2 to 8.1

by Gregory Avedissian

I'm getting ready to upgrade from SuSE 7.2 to 8.1, and I have a little confusion and some questions. I'm going from 7.2 pro edition to 8.1 personal edition. Any ideas what's missing in the personal edition? Attempting to replace what is installed, I get a list of conflicts, with advice to delete the old program, even if they don't have a replacement. I was surprised to see that balsa and gftp were listed as not having newer versions. Is this because they're not on the personal edition? I know they exist, because they're available at rpmfind. The real issue - XFree 4.x doesn't seem to want to recognize my ELSA GLoria-L video card. Sax2 will run in 640x480 only, and I can't get it to run with the glint driver (the one that's supposed to work with this card). I tried doing this with the SuSE 8.2 evaluation disk, and I'm running into the same problems I had when I tried to upgrade to XFree 4.1 about a month ago. So here's the question - Can I upgrade to 8.1 without upgrading XFree? Better yet, if I upgrade the XFree, and it doesn't work, is there an easy way to return to the older version by using the CD's. Or do I have to manually back up /usr/X11R6 and /etc/X11 first, and then recopy them to get back to the older version? Will the rest of the SuSE 8.1 be pissed off about using XFree 3.3.6? I suppose I could change the vid card, but I'd rather not spend any money, and since this one is listed as working, I'd like to be able to get it to work. Thanks in advance for any suggestions or ideas. Greg

Nov. 5, 2003

Re: [Wlug] REMINDER: WLUG meeting, Wed 7 PM

by Al Reinhart

Andy, I can't make the meeting tonight, but thought you might be interested in the following: Novell to Buy SuSE Linux for $210 Million By STEVE LOHR The deal shows that mainstream software companies are increasingly betting on the free Linux operating system. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/05/technology/05linux.html?th Al --------------------------------------------- Al Reinhart Phone: 508.869.6417 DisCom Systems EMail: Reinhart(a)DisCom.com www.DisCom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Stewart" <andystewart(a)comcast.net> To: "Worcester Linux User's Group" <wlug(a)wlug.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:42 AM Subject: [Wlug] REMINDER: WLUG meeting, Wed 7 PM > > HI Everybody, > > I'm sending this again since I'm not sure if my last attempt made it due to > the mailing list server problem. BTW, my thanks to Frank Sweetser for fixing > this problem! > > There is a WLUG meeting being held on Wednesday, Nov 5th at 7:00 PM in the > Access Grid room on the WPI campus in Worcester, MA USA. Directions to this > room can be found on the website. > > At this meeting, I'd like to talk about the "WLUG TV" show which was discussed > somewhat at the end of our last meeting, and again in the mailing list. I'd > like to see if we can get some roles and responsibilities defined for > interested folks so that this effort can move forward. > > Secondly, I'll bring my laptop and we can explore SuSE 9.0 together, but I > haven't had much chance myself to see all that is new and different. We can > also talk about RedHat's recent announcement about "no more RedHat Linux" and > the potential purchase of SuSE by Novell. > > Afterwards, we'll adjourn to the Boynton Restaurant for pizza and beers. > > See ya later, > > Andy > -- > Andy Stewart, Founder > Worcester Linux Users' Group > Worcester, MA USA > http://www.wlug.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > >

Nov. 5, 2003