- WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

Re: [Wlug] Need input re: developers tools

by Marc Hughes

On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Doug Chamberlin wrote: > > Third, there are hundreds of thousands of developers using Delphi who now > can use their familiar development environment to do Linux applications. I > believe this will have a major impact on the Linux world and give C a run > for its money. Will it supplant C? Of course not! Will it provide a > credible alternative? You bet! Like Me! I've been doing Delphi for the past 4 years at my job. Up until now, it's been Delphi at work, PERL/C/PHP/etc. at home. This Monday I'm starting a Linux job... you better believe that I'm going to push to get a copy of Kylix there! I more relate Delphi (and hence Kylix) with Java in programming style. It just "feels" more like Java, just about everything passed by reference, meager garbage collection, and kick ass utility classes. But the real power is in the development environment, not the language. I can slap together a nice looking application that does something usefull in half a day. Using GTK or QT it takes me that long just to get the GUI right. Expect to see a lot more graphical applications (even tho most will be crap) as soon as the Free version is released. -Marc

April 19, 2001

Re: [Wlug] Need input re: developers tools

by Doug Chamberlin

At 4/16/2001 11:50 PM (Monday), Tom Guilderson wrote: >I won't proceed to thrash pascal since I have never really done any >development in pascal, but the linux/unix development world is dominated >by C. [more snipped] If you are going to do any >serious development in a Unix environment, you will need to know C. This has certainly been true for a long time. However, Kylix is a significant departure from that history and a significant event worth noting. Why? First, the version of Pascal that Borland has evolved is "not your father's Pascal". In it's Delphi form it is fully equivalent to C++ in power and efficiency. Second, Delphi (and it's Turbo Pascal ancestor) have never been ported from the DOS/Windows environment before (except for a brief aborted visit to the Mac OS). Therefore, no one using the Unix platforms has been able to evaluate it properly. With Kylix this will be possible. Third, there are hundreds of thousands of developers using Delphi who now can use their familiar development environment to do Linux applications. I believe this will have a major impact on the Linux world and give C a run for its money. Will it supplant C? Of course not! Will it provide a credible alternative? You bet! Interesting times, indeed!

April 18, 2001

Re: [Wlug] Need input re: developers tools

by Dennis Payne

> I won't proceed to thrash pascal since I have never really done any > development in pascal, but the linux/unix development world is dominated > by C. If it is not written in C, then the interpreter, byte code > interpreter/virtaul machine for the language was likely written in C > (perl, tcl/tk, python, java etc etc). C is also the language that gives > you the best interfaces for system calls into the low level aspects of > unix such as the file systems, I/O etc. If you are going to do any > serious development in a Unix environment, you will need to know C. Pascal and C are so similar in capabilities, the argument presented here is confusing. Except for strings there is no reason, Pascal couldn't directly interface the system calls as C. The free pascal compiler has a C string type and can do just what I suggested (or at least that is what the documentation suggests). The language that the interpreter, compiler or whatever is written in doesn't disprove the viability of languages only proves the flexibility of C. Assuming that's true, free pascal is written in pascal. (Perhaps instead of BSD/Linux where the GNU tools are replaced with BSD tools someone could make a distribution using only Pascal, ADA, etc.) (I don't mean to start a holy war. Considering the author suggested python, tcl/tk, etc. as tools, he obviously doesn't believe C is the best tool for every job. These statements just bothered me.) Dennis Payne dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com

April 18, 2001

Cable modem/lilo

by William Hine

The version of SUSE linux I was running seemed to give me a problem with DHCP. Ive yet to figure out what it is, and cable modems should be simple to setup. Anyways I installed mandrake 8.0 beta 3. The installation utility is great. I booted in the system for the first time and was able to use my modem. Thanx for the reccomendation. I was wondering if anyone can help me with lilo. When I boot my machine it only displays LI. I seem to remember this having to do something with the drive geometry. Any Ideas? I also installed grub which when I boot just displays GRUB. What could be wrong? TIA Bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

April 18, 2001

[Fwd: Your 4/19 LUG meeting]

by Andy Stewart

HI gang, Would somebody who attends the WLUG meeting on Thursday be willing to write up something which can be posted on LWN, LinuxToday, and LinuxUsersGroups.org? Kara has asked, and I told her that we'd come up with something. Thanks in advance, Andy -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Your 4/19 LUG meeting Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:24:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Kara Pritchard <kara(a)luci.org> To: <andystewart(a)mediaone.net> Hi Andy, Looks like you have a fun evening planned for your next LUG meeting. I'd be interested if you (or someone in your group) would do a write-up about the special meeting, or perhaps an interview. I'll host it at LinuxUsersGroups.org and have it posted to LWN and LinuxToday. It'll be a good opportunity both for your group and for Ziegler's book. -- Kara Pritchard Phone: 618-398-7360 Author, RHCE Exam Cram Director of Exam Development http://www.lpi.org/ Site Manager http://www.LinuxUsersGroups.org/ --

April 18, 2001

Re: [Wlug] max memory?

by ccb＠acm.org

> > Is linux limited to 4GB memory? > > Nope, not 2.4 anyways. I don't remember the limit, but it's a big > number. ;-) > > > I have inherited some boxes with 5GB each and I'm planning on loading linux. Some things to remember - if these are x86 architecture boxes, you still have a 3GB per process user space limit. Even with 64GB of RAM, no single process can see more than 4GB and the top 1GB of that is mapped as kernel space. Big memory means that you get to have lots of large virtual address spaces that can remain mapped in physical RAM. For virtual address spaces with wider than 32-bit addresses, you need 64-bit processors. ccb -- Charles C. Bennett, Jr. VA LiNUX Systems Systems Engineer, Northeast US 25 Burlington Mall Rd., Suite 300 +1 617 543-6513 Burlington, MA 01803-4145 ccb(a)valinux.com www.valinux.com

April 18, 2001

Re: [Wlug] Need input re: developers tools

by Stephen C. Daukas

At 11:50 PM 4/16/2001 -0400, Tom Guilderson wrote: [... lots of good stuff ...] > > Also, are there any tools or compilers for Pascal? Remember, the > Delphi folks > > understand Pascal, and I'm sure they will ask this question. (It has > been 20 > > years since I programmed anything in Pascal...). I'll admit that this isn't much of a sample, but the three folks I know that actually use the product are proficient in C/C++ as well as Pascal, so you may not have much of an issue. >I won't proceed to thrash pascal since I have never really done any >development in pascal, but the linux/unix development world is dominated >by C. If it is not written in C, then the interpreter, byte code >interpreter/virtaul machine for the language was likely written in C >(perl, tcl/tk, python, java etc etc). C is also the language that gives >you the best interfaces for system calls into the low level aspects of >unix such as the file systems, I/O etc. If you are going to do any >serious development in a Unix environment, you will need to know C. Kylix is both Pascal and C++. Pascal is being released first, with C++ not far behind. Kylix will also allow you to move your stuff from Windoze to Linux with apparent ease. For more reading, here is an interesting article I found in my archives. I'll try to find a more recent reference... http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-01-31-001-27-OP-CY-SW

April 17, 2001

Re: [Wlug] Need input re: developers tools

by Tom Guilderson

Andy Stewart wrote: > > HI gang, > > I am starting to write up the last 1/3 of my presentation to the Delphi > Developers group, and its the section on developer tools and utilities. I'd > like some input from you folks as to what I should include in this section. > > Emacs - the original "IDE" (???) > gdb for debugging (nicer with DDD front end, IMHO) > make and Makefiles > gcc Emacs - yes - is there any other editor? Hey it even runs on VOS! I don'tneed no stinking fully blown ide visual xyz gcc, g++ - yes make - yes (for smaler projects) gdb - absolutely (you need a debugger!) haven't used ddd since i usually invoke gdb from the command line. sometimes (gdb) attach pid - to debug a running daemon process. > What else do "real" Linux developers use? Maybe I'm suffering a brain cramp > this evening, but your input will help. cvs (or maybe rcs) for source code version control autoconf, automake, and libtool for larger projects when make alone becomes too cumbersome (more than 9 or 10 files or multiple target systems) bison and flex (yacc and lex in the commercial SysV world) POSIX pthread library for multithreading (portable accross SysV, BSD, Linux, and if done carefully NT since it is posix compliant when the posix subsystem is enabled) also because the real world is asynchronous. m4 for macro processing strace on linux, truss (prefer over strace) on SysV and BSD (heard that a port for linux is being planned) patch and diff sed, awk, grep and all the other shell scripting tools perl - something will need it eventually (Not my favorite, but very powerful. Also not all perl programs need be impossible to figure out with purposefuuly ugly syntax and formatting) tcl/tk (not as much now that I am learning to use python for those quick and dirty gui tools) python 2.0 For java switch back and forth between IBM and Sun JDK - lean more to IBM. for HTML editing switch around between emacs, amaya (W3C), and bluefish depending on mood For dynamic web pages PHP (we have a tomcat, apache JSP), server we are playing with at work) also there are so many useful things already done in perl, you can just use with almost no effort. Don't forget about libraries available for doing many common tasks such as GTK and Qt for creating GUI interfaces (if you have used Xlib primitives you quickly appreciate libraries like GTK which save time) libz for compressing and uncompressing image and mime handling libraries etc. libwww from W3C for client side http stuff (good for crawlers) There have got to be lots of other development related tools like code warrior, kdevelop (i actually like the kwrite editor that comes with KDE), > Also, are there any tools or compilers for Pascal? Remember, the Delphi folks > understand Pascal, and I'm sure they will ask this question. (It has been 20 > years since I programmed anything in Pascal...). I won't proceed to thrash pascal since I have never really done any development in pascal, but the linux/unix development world is dominated by C. If it is not written in C, then the interpreter, byte code interpreter/virtaul machine for the language was likely written in C (perl, tcl/tk, python, java etc etc). C is also the language that gives you the best interfaces for system calls into the low level aspects of unix such as the file systems, I/O etc. If you are going to do any serious development in a Unix environment, you will need to know C.

April 16, 2001

Re: [Wlug] Red Hat Linux 7.1

by Brian J. Conway

My earlier statement was merely a point on RedHat's previous _shaky_ release. I've been using Mandrake's gcc-2.96 recompiled on 7.2 out of Cooker for months and it's an excellent compiler (hell, Cooker's been compiled by it for 4 months now), and I would recommend it to anyone. > Read slashdot for rebuttal. I read Slashdot for my daily dose of trolls and goatsex links, but WLUG is not the place to comment on that one. -b

April 16, 2001

Re: [Wlug] Need input re: developers tools

by Dennis Payne

> What else do "real" Linux developers use? strace grep ldd nm I don't think they would be useful and helpful to demonstrate. Frankly the best tool is bash. The automation of all the stupid little things you need to prep data or whatever is incredibly useful. (It is why the GNU tools are requirement to make NT useful IMHO.) > Also, are there any tools or compilers for Pascal? www.freepascal.org They have been building a Turbo Pascal/Delphi compiler for Linux, Dos, etc. (Used it once to build an old Turbo Pascal program.) Dennis Payne dulsi(a)identicalsoftware.com

April 16, 2001