January 2024 - WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

Re: Proxmox!

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Gregory" == Gregory Boyce via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Coincidentally, I just recently started in a support role at Scale > Computing, which provides virtualization leveraging qemu/kvm, with > their own proprietary clustered filesystem. Can we convince you to come and give us a talk? This looks really interesting! > Obviously I'm a bit biased since they pay me, but I have been pretty impressed with the product. > On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 10:38 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey Gang, > As many of us have been watching the news, BroadCom has been gleefully destroying vmware at > scale. > I've been exploring FOSS replacements for esxi and one of those is Proxmox. It looks pretty > cool and has a pretty awesome set of features. > Tim. > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as > "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/5JBZJ… > -- > Greg > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/4HGXC…

Jan. 25, 2024

Re: Proxmox!

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Kevin" == Kevin Stratton via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > I am using virtualbox running on Ubuntu 22.04 (not Pro). I'm using plain KVM on Debian 12 at home and it works nicely. But I want more features like live migration of VMs. So I've started looking at ProxMox as well. Also for $WORK since Broadcom is busy shooting itself in the foot in regards to ESXi. This tutorial looks quite in-depth. Haven't spent enough time looking it over, and I'd need to find spare hardware to run things on. https://www.howtoforge.com/linux-self-hosted-environment/ > I know this is not an enterprise level solution. but this seems to > do well (enough) for my personal needs. Yup, personal needs aren't as critical, but getting something to replace VMware might be key. And which is supported by Veeam as well. > I am running Windows 10 Pro as well as some other random stuff in > virtual machines. I am not a gamer. Me either! Except 'crawl', I'm adicted to v18.x of it. :-) > It has been functional/stable for quite awhile except for a very > recent Kernel Update breaking virtual box. This may be fixed since > virtualbox has automatically updated since this kernel update. I > have not updated the kernel to confirm that virtualbox works with > the new kernel. I will get a 'round tuit' when I do. I'm leary of VirtualBox for a couple of reasons. 1. It's Oracle. 2. It's not quick on kernel updates and I like to run newer kernels if I can.

Jan. 25, 2024

Re: Proxmox!

by Kevin Stratton

I am using virtualbox running on Ubuntu 22.04 (not Pro). I know this is not an enterprise level solution. but this seems to do well (enough) for my personal needs. I am running Windows 10 Pro as well as some other random stuff in virtual machines. I am not a gamer. It has been functional/stable for quite awhile except for a very recent Kernel Update breaking virtual box. This may be fixed since virtualbox has automatically updated since this kernel update. I have not updated the kernel to confirm that virtualbox works with the new kernel. I will get a 'round tuit' when I do. On 1/25/2024 10:45 AM, Gregory Boyce via WLUG wrote: > Coincidentally, I just recently started in a support role at Scale > Computing, which provides virtualization leveraging qemu/kvm, with > their own proprietary clustered filesystem. > > Obviously I'm a bit biased since they pay me, but I have been pretty > impressed with the product. > > > On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 10:38 AM Tim Keller via WLUG > <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Hey Gang, > > As many of us have been watching the news, BroadCom has been > gleefully destroying vmware at scale. > > I've been exploring FOSS replacements for esxi and one of those is > Proxmox. It looks pretty cool and has a pretty awesome set of > features. > > Tim. > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to > their constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/5JBZJ… > > > > -- > Greg > > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list --wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email towlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account:https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings:https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive:https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org…

Jan. 25, 2024

Re: Proxmox!

by Gregory Boyce

Coincidentally, I just recently started in a support role at Scale Computing, which provides virtualization leveraging qemu/kvm, with their own proprietary clustered filesystem. Obviously I'm a bit biased since they pay me, but I have been pretty impressed with the product. On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 10:38 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey Gang, > > As many of us have been watching the news, BroadCom has been gleefully > destroying vmware at scale. > > I've been exploring FOSS replacements for esxi and one of those is > Proxmox. It looks pretty cool and has a pretty awesome set of features. > > Tim. > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/5JBZJ… > -- Greg

Jan. 25, 2024

Proxmox!

by Tim Keller

Hey Gang, As many of us have been watching the news, BroadCom has been gleefully destroying vmware at scale. I've been exploring FOSS replacements for esxi and one of those is Proxmox. It looks pretty cool and has a pretty awesome set of features. Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Jan. 25, 2024

Re: I just bought a Pi5.. we'll see if I actually get it.

by John Stoffel

>>>>> "Aljerin" == Aljerin Butler,Jr via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: > Or you could look here: > http://customdesktopsolutions.mywebcommunity.org/index.php/linux-open-sourc… Thanks for the link. But I have to admit, the formatting on this site is horrendous! *grin* Black text on a grey background? And _small_ text too? Sheesh!

Jan. 18, 2024

Re: I just bought a Pi5.. we'll see if I actually get it.

by Aljerin Butler,Jr.

Or you could look here: http://customdesktopsolutions.mywebcommunity.org/index.php/linux-open-sourc… On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 04:06:14 PM EST, John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: So for those looking for other SBC options, think one looks tempting: https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-m1s-with-8gbyte-ram/ assuming it's actually reliable and tolerant of crap. I might try getting one of these and putting Ubuntu 22.x LTS on there. That at least implies it will be better supported than my OrangePi3 LTS boards (bringing one tonight!) which has been running Armbian, but which are frankly a crappy choice since I find that Armbian isn't such a great distro. Or more likely the vendor is just shipping meh parts. I've got one board working, and one dead one that won't even power up. Sigh... time to take a look at the board more closely and see if there's anything I can do. but mostly I hate throwing good money after bad. _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/HPHI3…

Jan. 14, 2024

Re: I just bought a Pi5.. we'll see if I actually get it.

by John Stoffel

So for those looking for other SBC options, think one looks tempting: https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-m1s-with-8gbyte-ram/ assuming it's actually reliable and tolerant of crap. I might try getting one of these and putting Ubuntu 22.x LTS on there. That at least implies it will be better supported than my OrangePi3 LTS boards (bringing one tonight!) which has been running Armbian, but which are frankly a crappy choice since I find that Armbian isn't such a great distro. Or more likely the vendor is just shipping meh parts. I've got one board working, and one dead one that won't even power up. Sigh... time to take a look at the board more closely and see if there's anything I can do. but mostly I hate throwing good money after bad.

Jan. 11, 2024

Re: I just bought a Pi5.. we'll see if I actually get it.

by Jon "maddog" Hall

Tim, My email to you was not to belittle your efforts in any way, but just to put more illumination on the thermal processes. Putting an RPi, even with a fan, in a hot closet may not solve the problem. >I've used lots of pi's and I've had them throttle because of thermal issues. Both the Pis and Linux have had a lot of improvement over the years to handle thermal issues. For example, when you only have one core, turning off that core to let the SoC cool down has some issues. :-) Most SoCs also have some thermal issues because the CPU and the GPU tend to be on the same SoC and therefore generate heat between the two. In a server system that has reduced or no graphics needs the heat sink can carry a lot more of the CPU's heat to the outside air. If you are considering doing AI work, rather than trying to use the GPU for that you could consider an accelerator (like we have discussed before) to spread that to another board. >plus that's not good for an SOC in any case A lot of this depends on the engineering of the SOC. There are a lot of issues other than just thermal that limit CPU clock speed and therefore limit the heat generated by the CPU. I cannot imagine a CPU that was not designed to run at maximum clock speed for all the cores from a thermal perspective, and of course turning it off makes it cool down again. If you tried to go into overclocking, you might have issues there, but then you have other issues too. From what I have read the RPi definitely has some applications as a "desktop replacement", particularly in some of the areas where I operate. Solar panels and batteries could easily supply the power for running an RPi 5 with a reasonably sized LCD panel, important in various areas of the Amazon. In Uruguay there was one remote village where the five "One Laptop Per Child" (OLPC) units produced the only electric light at night, charged by solar panels in the day. My Lenovo W510 laptop (with a 130 Watt power supply) would have drained their batteries in an hour at most. Another thing to consider is using the RPi as a "thin client", with the main computation is done remotely in "the cloud" and the Rpi is just used for graphical rendering and almost real-time capture of data for deep processing remotely. Have a good time with your experiments. Most importantly, have fun. md On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 12:56 PM Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I guess I should have been a bit clearer. I've used lots of pi's and I've > had them throttle because of thermal issues. I figure if I want to use this > pi5 as a desktop on my home desktop, I can't have it constantly doing the > heat up / cool down game.. plus that's not good for an SOC in any case. > It's yet to be seen if that little fan is going to be obnoxious.. > > I realize that this isn't a gaming machine. What I really want is a super > low power desktop I can tape to the back of my monitor and use to surf the > web, write crappy scifi and maybe watch a video. > As a stretch goal if it's capable of letting me use OnShape, I'll be > doubly surprised, but I suspect that's a cpu bridge too far.. Though I've > managed to use OnShape on my phone.. so who knows.. > > > On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 12:26 PM Jon "maddog" Hall < > jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> "since it appears trying to actually do anything with it will kill it in >> any real sense." >> >> That depends on the processor, existence or size of heat sink, heat >> transfer connectivity between SoC and heat sink, ambient temperature and OS >> settings. >> >> Most modern SoCs have a temperature setting inside that the OS can read. >> If the processor gets too hot the CPU can throttle back the clock and >> reduce the heat produced. It could also schedule fewer or less powerful >> cores. Of course this slows down your computer. >> >> The other main consideration is ambient temperature. If the air around >> the system is really warm the heat sink can only exchange so much heat. >> The fan helps with this, but in the end you might still have the CPU >> throttled. >> >> This explains why some over locked machines used by gamers even use >> liquid cooling to carry off the heat from the circuitry. >> >> I have not looked into the RPi 5 enough to know the extent of the thermal >> protection it enjoys, but I would not discourage you from buying the fan to >> get maximum performance on benchmarks. >> >> There was a good "Toms Hardware" video on this with regards to the RPi 5 >> when it first came out. >> >> On Tue, Jan 9, 2024, 12:12 Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I did get my pi5 in the mail! I went off and printed a case for it! I'm >>> going to head over to Microcenter (possibly for lunch!) and buy a cooler >>> for it since it appears trying to actually do anything with it will kill it >>> in any real sense. >>> >>> Tim. >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 11:54 AM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Here's an interesting article on using the Pi5 as a daily desktop. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/01/what-i-learned-from-using-a-raspber… >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >>> constituents as "consumers". >>> >> > > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". >

Jan. 9, 2024

Re: I just bought a Pi5.. we'll see if I actually get it.

by Tim Keller

I guess I should have been a bit clearer. I've used lots of pi's and I've had them throttle because of thermal issues. I figure if I want to use this pi5 as a desktop on my home desktop, I can't have it constantly doing the heat up / cool down game.. plus that's not good for an SOC in any case. It's yet to be seen if that little fan is going to be obnoxious.. I realize that this isn't a gaming machine. What I really want is a super low power desktop I can tape to the back of my monitor and use to surf the web, write crappy scifi and maybe watch a video. As a stretch goal if it's capable of letting me use OnShape, I'll be doubly surprised, but I suspect that's a cpu bridge too far.. Though I've managed to use OnShape on my phone.. so who knows.. On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 12:26 PM Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: > "since it appears trying to actually do anything with it will kill it in > any real sense." > > That depends on the processor, existence or size of heat sink, heat > transfer connectivity between SoC and heat sink, ambient temperature and OS > settings. > > Most modern SoCs have a temperature setting inside that the OS can read. > If the processor gets too hot the CPU can throttle back the clock and > reduce the heat produced. It could also schedule fewer or less powerful > cores. Of course this slows down your computer. > > The other main consideration is ambient temperature. If the air around > the system is really warm the heat sink can only exchange so much heat. > The fan helps with this, but in the end you might still have the CPU > throttled. > > This explains why some over locked machines used by gamers even use liquid > cooling to carry off the heat from the circuitry. > > I have not looked into the RPi 5 enough to know the extent of the thermal > protection it enjoys, but I would not discourage you from buying the fan to > get maximum performance on benchmarks. > > There was a good "Toms Hardware" video on this with regards to the RPi 5 > when it first came out. > > On Tue, Jan 9, 2024, 12:12 Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> I did get my pi5 in the mail! I went off and printed a case for it! I'm >> going to head over to Microcenter (possibly for lunch!) and buy a cooler >> for it since it appears trying to actually do anything with it will kill it >> in any real sense. >> >> Tim. >> >> On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 11:54 AM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote: >> >>> >>> Here's an interesting article on using the Pi5 as a daily desktop. >>> >>> >>> >>> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/01/what-i-learned-from-using-a-raspber… >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >> constituents as "consumers". >> > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Jan. 9, 2024