February 2021 - WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jon "maddog" Hall

I think that "TruCluster" was a layered product on top of "Tru64". I think that was slightly after my time at DEC also. I left in 1999. md On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:58 PM Jared Greenwald <greenwaldjared(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Sorry I was more thinking of TruCluster. I know we have a lot of contacts > in common from that time. > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 3:30 PM Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> The port of Tru64 to Itanium must have been after I left. I do not know >> anyone in the Tru64 product management that would have given any life to >> that project. No life. None. >> >> I can ask one of the engineering managers of that time. >> >> md >> >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 2:13 PM Jared Greenwald <greenwaldjared(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Still boggles my mind the amount of money HP spent on Itanium hardware >>> back after they acquired Compaq/Tru64 only to basically abandon the whole >>> thing and lay off everyone. >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < >>> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of >>>> Intel's Itanium processor. >>>> >>>> As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a >>>> number of years I still remember my shock that THIS was the answer for >>>> Intel's 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Instruction set. >>>> >>>> I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly >>>> because I had spent the past six months proving why even a regular CISC >>>> system was the wrong answer, and here Intel was going in the opposite >>>> direction. >>>> >>>> After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his >>>> shoulders and left my office. >>>> >>>> While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent >>>> in the production of the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real >>>> life "Itanic"....watching it sink. >>>> >>>> md >>>> >>>> P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with >>>> a reasonable extension to the i86 architecture....which (although it was >>>> not RISC) I was reasonably happy with. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hey Everybody, >>>>> >>>>> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) >>>>> >>>>> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be >>>>> up for it. >>>>> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux >>>>> kernel. Good riddance! >>>>> >>>>> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! >>>>> >>>>> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. >>>>> >>>>> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >>>>> >>>>> Later, >>>>> Tim. >>>>> -- >>>>> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >>>>> constituents as "consumers". >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>>> Change Settings: >>>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>>> Web Forum/Archive: >>>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>> Change Settings: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>> Web Forum/Archive: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DM5K6… >>>> >>>

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jared Greenwald

Sorry I was more thinking of TruCluster. I know we have a lot of contacts in common from that time. On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 3:30 PM Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: > The port of Tru64 to Itanium must have been after I left. I do not know > anyone in the Tru64 product management that would have given any life to > that project. No life. None. > > I can ask one of the engineering managers of that time. > > md > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 2:13 PM Jared Greenwald <greenwaldjared(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Still boggles my mind the amount of money HP spent on Itanium hardware >> back after they acquired Compaq/Tru64 only to basically abandon the whole >> thing and lay off everyone. >> >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < >> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >> >>> I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of >>> Intel's Itanium processor. >>> >>> As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a number >>> of years I still remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's >>> 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Instruction set. >>> >>> I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly >>> because I had spent the past six months proving why even a regular CISC >>> system was the wrong answer, and here Intel was going in the opposite >>> direction. >>> >>> After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his >>> shoulders and left my office. >>> >>> While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent >>> in the production of the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real >>> life "Itanic"....watching it sink. >>> >>> md >>> >>> P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with a >>> reasonable extension to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not >>> RISC) I was reasonably happy with. >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hey Everybody, >>>> >>>> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) >>>> >>>> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be >>>> up for it. >>>> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux >>>> kernel. Good riddance! >>>> >>>> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! >>>> >>>> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. >>>> >>>> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >>>> >>>> Later, >>>> Tim. >>>> -- >>>> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >>>> constituents as "consumers". >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>>> Change Settings: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>>> Web Forum/Archive: >>>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DM5K6… >>> >>

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jon "maddog" Hall

The port of Tru64 to Itanium must have been after I left. I do not know anyone in the Tru64 product management that would have given any life to that project. No life. None. I can ask one of the engineering managers of that time. md On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 2:13 PM Jared Greenwald <greenwaldjared(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Still boggles my mind the amount of money HP spent on Itanium hardware > back after they acquired Compaq/Tru64 only to basically abandon the whole > thing and lay off everyone. > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >> I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of >> Intel's Itanium processor. >> >> As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a number >> of years I still remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's >> 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Instruction set. >> >> I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly >> because I had spent the past six months proving why even a regular CISC >> system was the wrong answer, and here Intel was going in the opposite >> direction. >> >> After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his >> shoulders and left my office. >> >> While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent >> in the production of the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real >> life "Itanic"....watching it sink. >> >> md >> >> P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with a >> reasonable extension to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not >> RISC) I was reasonably happy with. >> >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Hey Everybody, >>> >>> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) >>> >>> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be >>> up for it. >>> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. >>> Good riddance! >>> >>> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! >>> >>> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. >>> >>> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >>> >>> Later, >>> Tim. >>> -- >>> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >>> constituents as "consumers". >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DM5K6… >> >

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jared Greenwald

Still boggles my mind the amount of money HP spent on Itanium hardware back after they acquired Compaq/Tru64 only to basically abandon the whole thing and lay off everyone. On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of > Intel's Itanium processor. > > As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a number > of years I still remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's > 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Instruction set. > > I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly > because I had spent the past six months proving why even a regular CISC > system was the wrong answer, and here Intel was going in the opposite > direction. > > After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his > shoulders and left my office. > > While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent in > the production of the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real > life "Itanic"....watching it sink. > > md > > P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with a > reasonable extension to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not > RISC) I was reasonably happy with. > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> Hey Everybody, >> >> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) >> >> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be >> up for it. >> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. >> Good riddance! >> >> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! >> >> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. >> >> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >> >> Later, >> Tim. >> -- >> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >> constituents as "consumers". >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >> > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/DM5K6… >

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Tim Keller

John, My perspective was from working at Stratus. Continuum at the time was our flagship line of servers that ran on PA-RISC and with Itanium it was clear the end of the line for PA-RISC was coming. Bob Evans and others who were more intimately involved can probably explain it better, but I remember Stratus getting a couple Itanium development workstations and my recollection was that the engineers weren't impressed. It wasn't a fundamental improvement on PA-RISC as far as they could tell. Ultimately VOS was ported to Xeon and the rest is history. I'm *sure* someone somewhere is still happily running PA-RISC based Stratus servers, but I have to imagine that number dwindles each year. Personally I have a hypothesis that Intel had really put it's bets on Xeon and wasn't really that invested in Itanium. What it did do was get HP out of the HPC market. It's fair to say that Xeon based systems running Linux pretty much put the coffin nails in MIPS, PA-RISC and ultimately Sparc and likely a few others I don't know about and with it the various operating systems that didn't get ported to Xeon. On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of > Intel's Itanium processor. > > As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a number > of years I still remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's > 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Instruction set. > > I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly > because I had spent the past six months proving why even a regular CISC > system was the wrong answer, and here Intel was going in the opposite > direction. > > After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his > shoulders and left my office. > > While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent in > the production of the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real > life "Itanic"....watching it sink. > > md > > P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with a > reasonable extension to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not > RISC) I was reasonably happy with. > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > wrote: > >> Hey Everybody, >> >> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) >> >> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be >> up for it. >> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. >> Good riddance! >> >> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! >> >> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. >> >> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA >> >> Later, >> Tim. >> -- >> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their >> constituents as "consumers". >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >> > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Jon "maddog" Hall

I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of Intel's Itanium processor. As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a number of years I still remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide Instruction set. I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly because I had spent the past six months proving why even a regular CISC system was the wrong answer, and here Intel was going in the opposite direction. After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his shoulders and left my office. While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent in the production of the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real life "Itanic"....watching it sink. md P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with a reasonable extension to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not RISC) I was reasonably happy with. On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey Everybody, > > We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) > > As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be up for > it. > I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. > Good riddance! > > We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! > > As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. > > Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > > Later, > Tim. > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >

Feb. 4, 2021

Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Richard Klein

I'm not sure I'll make it, but I'd like to hear more about NextCloud. I briefly attempted to install the server last weekend. Only the desktop client seems to be in the Debian repository, and I didn't have enough time to investigate what the next best way to install it is. I did discover that it's a fork of OwnCloud, though. I'd never heard of that. On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey Everybody, > > We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) > > As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be up for > it. > I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. > Good riddance! > > We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! > > As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. > > Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA > > Later, > Tim. > -- > I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their > constituents as "consumers". > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC… >

Feb. 4, 2021

WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!

by Tim Keller

Hey Everybody, We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm) As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be up for it. I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. Good riddance! We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!! As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface. Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA Later, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Feb. 4, 2021