April 2020 - WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Tim Keller

This was how my install of Ubuntu on my ThinkPad T470 went. Everything just works. The only thing I haven't bothered with is the fingerprint reader. Tim. On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:33 PM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >* Why can't they just offer instructions on how to get drivers working > >properly? > > They will probably do this too, but you have to understand a couple of > things. > > (1) First, many customers do not want to "fiddle" with their purchases. > They want to open the box, fill in their name, etc. and work (or play). > (2) Secondly, it is one thing if you want to "fiddle" with one laptop you > purchased, it is another thing if you have to "fiddle" with hundreds that > you purchased for your company. (See Figure 1) > (3) Stores want to have laptops on display. WE want to have GNU/Linux > laptops on display. Stores do NOT want to have to "fiddle" with the laptop > just to show GNU/Linux working. If the stores (particularly big box > stores) have to "fiddle" THEY WILL NOT SHOW GNU/LINUX. > (4) Computers "need" to ship with some OS on them. If GNU/Linux is not > installed it will be MS (BSD? In your dreams. Nothing against BSD, but > the numbers of units do not work). If MS is on there, the manufacturers > and stores and customers will pay an MS "tax". > > >* Will their "special" linux have all the bloatware that theiw Windows > > installs have? Yuck! > > That "bloatware" makes your laptop less expensive. The bloatware > companies pay to have that bloatware on there. If it was not there, the > laptops would cost more. > > "rm" works. Use it. > > md > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:21 PM Michael Voorhis via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > >> I'm similar. I've never had trouble installing Linux on a thinkpad... >> would be a little suspicious about having one with an "altered" distro >> installed. >> >> * Why can't they just offer instructions on how to get drivers working >> properly? >> >> * Will their "special" linux have all the bloatware that theiw Windows >> installs have? Yuck! >> >> --MCV. >> >> On 4/24/20 12:16 PM, Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG wrote: >> > For full disclosure, I purchase all of my laptops new (not used), all >> > "top of the line" and ALL have been Thinkpads for the past quarter >> > century, ever since I saw that Ted T'so was using one. >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/3I5KZ… >> > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/SVOFW… > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

April 24, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Jon "maddog" Hall

>* Why can't they just offer instructions on how to get drivers working >properly? They will probably do this too, but you have to understand a couple of things. (1) First, many customers do not want to "fiddle" with their purchases. They want to open the box, fill in their name, etc. and work (or play). (2) Secondly, it is one thing if you want to "fiddle" with one laptop you purchased, it is another thing if you have to "fiddle" with hundreds that you purchased for your company. (See Figure 1) (3) Stores want to have laptops on display. WE want to have GNU/Linux laptops on display. Stores do NOT want to have to "fiddle" with the laptop just to show GNU/Linux working. If the stores (particularly big box stores) have to "fiddle" THEY WILL NOT SHOW GNU/LINUX. (4) Computers "need" to ship with some OS on them. If GNU/Linux is not installed it will be MS (BSD? In your dreams. Nothing against BSD, but the numbers of units do not work). If MS is on there, the manufacturers and stores and customers will pay an MS "tax". >* Will their "special" linux have all the bloatware that theiw Windows > installs have? Yuck! That "bloatware" makes your laptop less expensive. The bloatware companies pay to have that bloatware on there. If it was not there, the laptops would cost more. "rm" works. Use it. md On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:21 PM Michael Voorhis via WLUG < wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > I'm similar. I've never had trouble installing Linux on a thinkpad... > would be a little suspicious about having one with an "altered" distro > installed. > > * Why can't they just offer instructions on how to get drivers working > properly? > > * Will their "special" linux have all the bloatware that theiw Windows > installs have? Yuck! > > --MCV. > > On 4/24/20 12:16 PM, Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG wrote: > > For full disclosure, I purchase all of my laptops new (not used), all > > "top of the line" and ALL have been Thinkpads for the past quarter > > century, ever since I saw that Ted T'so was using one. > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/3I5KZ… >

April 24, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Joshua Stone

Considering Thinkpads are Lenovo's business line and Lenovo already has good firmware update support (https://fwupd.org/lvfs/devices/) Lenovo should be able to learn lessons from previous OEM attempts to provide good support. This feels very different from before where Linux was relegated to cheap computers (remember Moblin?), giving people the impression that Linux was a low quality OS. Now we're seeing big players cooperate to provide official support on premium computers, with official packages to boot! I think Fedora on its own is a great choice for a pre-installed distro too. Fedora is very upstream-friendly, and since it has a policy of updating the kernel and drivers quickly with few modifications, it's generally a good indicator of overall Linux distro support. -Josh On Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 12:17 Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: > For full disclosure, I purchase all of my laptops new (not used), all "top > of the line" and ALL have been Thinkpads for the past quarter century, ever > since I saw that Ted T'so was using one. > > md > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:14 PM Jon "maddog" Hall < > jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> No idea, but since IBM now owns Red Hat, and since the President of IBM >> is now Jim Whitehurst who was the former President and CEO of Red Hat, I >> will assume that even though IBM no longer owns Lenovo that there may be a >> range of laptops that run Fedora, not just "the low end". >> >> Just guessin' >> >> md >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:10 PM Gelman, Ian S. <isgelman(a)wpi.edu> wrote: >> >>> Do we think Lenovo will apply Dell's lessons learned from the early >>> 2010s back when they tried to ship Ubuntu on their entry-level laptops? >>> >>> Ian (from mobile device) >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >>> *Sent:* Friday, April 24, 2020 12:01:01 PM >>> *To:* Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion < >>> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >>> *Cc:* Joshua Stone <joshua.gage.stone(a)gmail.com>; Jon "maddog" Hall < >>> jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> >>> *Subject:* [EXT] [WLUG] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> In theory this will help other GNU/Linux distros too, since eventually >>> the device drivers for all of the parts of the laptops will go upstream and >>> down to the distributions. >>> >>> My findings with Lenovo (and IBM before them) was that they had pretty >>> good support for the devices anyway, it is just that you might have to >>> "dicker" with them to get the support working. I always attributed this >>> (in the beginning anyway) to Ted T'so working for IBM and using Thinkpads >>> as his own, personal laptop...but that might just be urban legend. >>> >>> Good news in any case. >>> >>> md >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 11:56 AM Joshua Stone via WLUG < >>> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hey everyone, >>> >>> Apparently Lenovo is planning on shipping Fedora on their Thinkpad >>> lines, and will use only packages from the official repos instead of custom >>> packages. >>> >>> I think this is great news as somebody who shopped for Thinkpads before >>> and had to contact support about refunding a Windows license (turns out >>> that wasn't possible at the time). Having a distro pre-installed should >>> mean improved hardware compatibility, and maybe even be able contact >>> support for Linux-specific issues. >>> >>> More info here: >>> >>> https://fedoramagazine.org/coming-soon-fedora-on-lenovo-laptops/ >>> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffedoramag…> >>> >>> -Josh >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >>> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >>> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> >>> Change Settings: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >>> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> >>> Web Forum/Archive: >>> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/7AGYG… >>> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> >>> >>>

April 24, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Michael Voorhis

I'm similar. I've never had trouble installing Linux on a thinkpad... would be a little suspicious about having one with an "altered" distro installed. * Why can't they just offer instructions on how to get drivers working properly? * Will their "special" linux have all the bloatware that theiw Windows installs have? Yuck! --MCV. On 4/24/20 12:16 PM, Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG wrote: > For full disclosure, I purchase all of my laptops new (not used), all > "top of the line" and ALL have been Thinkpads for the past quarter > century, ever since I saw that Ted T'so was using one.

April 24, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Jon "maddog" Hall

For full disclosure, I purchase all of my laptops new (not used), all "top of the line" and ALL have been Thinkpads for the past quarter century, ever since I saw that Ted T'so was using one. md On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:14 PM Jon "maddog" Hall < jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote: > No idea, but since IBM now owns Red Hat, and since the President of IBM is > now Jim Whitehurst who was the former President and CEO of Red Hat, I will > assume that even though IBM no longer owns Lenovo that there may be a range > of laptops that run Fedora, not just "the low end". > > Just guessin' > > md > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:10 PM Gelman, Ian S. <isgelman(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > >> Do we think Lenovo will apply Dell's lessons learned from the early 2010s >> back when they tried to ship Ubuntu on their entry-level laptops? >> >> Ian (from mobile device) >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >> *Sent:* Friday, April 24, 2020 12:01:01 PM >> *To:* Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion < >> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> >> *Cc:* Joshua Stone <joshua.gage.stone(a)gmail.com>; Jon "maddog" Hall < >> jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> >> *Subject:* [EXT] [WLUG] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed >> >> Hi, >> >> In theory this will help other GNU/Linux distros too, since eventually >> the device drivers for all of the parts of the laptops will go upstream and >> down to the distributions. >> >> My findings with Lenovo (and IBM before them) was that they had pretty >> good support for the devices anyway, it is just that you might have to >> "dicker" with them to get the support working. I always attributed this >> (in the beginning anyway) to Ted T'so working for IBM and using Thinkpads >> as his own, personal laptop...but that might just be urban legend. >> >> Good news in any case. >> >> md >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 11:56 AM Joshua Stone via WLUG < >> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: >> >> Hey everyone, >> >> Apparently Lenovo is planning on shipping Fedora on their Thinkpad lines, >> and will use only packages from the official repos instead of custom >> packages. >> >> I think this is great news as somebody who shopped for Thinkpads before >> and had to contact support about refunding a Windows license (turns out >> that wasn't possible at the time). Having a distro pre-installed should >> mean improved hardware compatibility, and maybe even be able contact >> support for Linux-specific issues. >> >> More info here: >> >> https://fedoramagazine.org/coming-soon-fedora-on-lenovo-laptops/ >> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffedoramag…> >> >> -Josh >> _______________________________________________ >> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org >> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ >> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> >> Change Settings: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ >> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> >> Web Forum/Archive: >> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/7AGYG… >> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> >> >>

April 24, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Jon "maddog" Hall

No idea, but since IBM now owns Red Hat, and since the President of IBM is now Jim Whitehurst who was the former President and CEO of Red Hat, I will assume that even though IBM no longer owns Lenovo that there may be a range of laptops that run Fedora, not just "the low end". Just guessin' md On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:10 PM Gelman, Ian S. <isgelman(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > Do we think Lenovo will apply Dell's lessons learned from the early 2010s > back when they tried to ship Ubuntu on their entry-level laptops? > > Ian (from mobile device) > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> > *Sent:* Friday, April 24, 2020 12:01:01 PM > *To:* Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > > > *Cc:* Joshua Stone <joshua.gage.stone(a)gmail.com>; Jon "maddog" Hall < > jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> > *Subject:* [EXT] [WLUG] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed > > Hi, > > In theory this will help other GNU/Linux distros too, since eventually the > device drivers for all of the parts of the laptops will go upstream and > down to the distributions. > > My findings with Lenovo (and IBM before them) was that they had pretty > good support for the devices anyway, it is just that you might have to > "dicker" with them to get the support working. I always attributed this > (in the beginning anyway) to Ted T'so working for IBM and using Thinkpads > as his own, personal laptop...but that might just be urban legend. > > Good news in any case. > > md > > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 11:56 AM Joshua Stone via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > Apparently Lenovo is planning on shipping Fedora on their Thinkpad lines, > and will use only packages from the official repos instead of custom > packages. > > I think this is great news as somebody who shopped for Thinkpads before > and had to contact support about refunding a Windows license (turns out > that wasn't possible at the time). Having a distro pre-installed should > mean improved hardware compatibility, and maybe even be able contact > support for Linux-specific issues. > > More info here: > > https://fedoramagazine.org/coming-soon-fedora-on-lenovo-laptops/ > <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffedoramag…> > > -Josh > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/7AGYG… > <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> > >

April 24, 2020

Re: [EXT] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Gelman, Ian S.

Do we think Lenovo will apply Dell's lessons learned from the early 2010s back when they tried to ship Ubuntu on their entry-level laptops? Ian (from mobile device) ________________________________ From: Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 12:01:01 PM To: Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> Cc: Joshua Stone <joshua.gage.stone(a)gmail.com>; Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> Subject: [EXT] [WLUG] Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed Hi, In theory this will help other GNU/Linux distros too, since eventually the device drivers for all of the parts of the laptops will go upstream and down to the distributions. My findings with Lenovo (and IBM before them) was that they had pretty good support for the devices anyway, it is just that you might have to "dicker" with them to get the support working. I always attributed this (in the beginning anyway) to Ted T'so working for IBM and using Thinkpads as his own, personal laptop...but that might just be urban legend. Good news in any case. md On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 11:56 AM Joshua Stone via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org<mailto:wlug@lists.wlug.org>> wrote: Hey everyone, Apparently Lenovo is planning on shipping Fedora on their Thinkpad lines, and will use only packages from the official repos instead of custom packages. I think this is great news as somebody who shopped for Thinkpads before and had to contact support about refunding a Windows license (turns out that wasn't possible at the time). Having a distro pre-installed should mean improved hardware compatibility, and maybe even be able contact support for Linux-specific issues. More info here: https://fedoramagazine.org/coming-soon-fedora-on-lenovo-laptops/<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffedoramag…> -Josh _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org<mailto:wlug@lists.wlug.org> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org<mailto:wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…> Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/7AGYG…<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwlug.mail…>

April 24, 2020

Re: Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Jon "maddog" Hall

Hi, In theory this will help other GNU/Linux distros too, since eventually the device drivers for all of the parts of the laptops will go upstream and down to the distributions. My findings with Lenovo (and IBM before them) was that they had pretty good support for the devices anyway, it is just that you might have to "dicker" with them to get the support working. I always attributed this (in the beginning anyway) to Ted T'so working for IBM and using Thinkpads as his own, personal laptop...but that might just be urban legend. Good news in any case. md On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 11:56 AM Joshua Stone via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey everyone, > > Apparently Lenovo is planning on shipping Fedora on their Thinkpad lines, > and will use only packages from the official repos instead of custom > packages. > > I think this is great news as somebody who shopped for Thinkpads before > and had to contact support about refunding a Windows license (turns out > that wasn't possible at the time). Having a distro pre-installed should > mean improved hardware compatibility, and maybe even be able contact > support for Linux-specific issues. > > More info here: > > https://fedoramagazine.org/coming-soon-fedora-on-lenovo-laptops/ > > -Josh > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ > Change Settings: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ > Web Forum/Archive: > https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/7AGYG… >

April 24, 2020

Lenovo shipping Linux pre-installed

by Joshua Stone

Hey everyone, Apparently Lenovo is planning on shipping Fedora on their Thinkpad lines, and will use only packages from the official repos instead of custom packages. I think this is great news as somebody who shopped for Thinkpads before and had to contact support about refunding a Windows license (turns out that wasn't possible at the time). Having a distro pre-installed should mean improved hardware compatibility, and maybe even be able contact support for Linux-specific issues. More info here: https://fedoramagazine.org/coming-soon-fedora-on-lenovo-laptops/ -Josh

April 24, 2020

Re: [BBLISA] audit root/sudo users for RHEL 6 server

by Dean Anderson

You need to report who has the root passwords and who is in the sudo files, and whether there are any other means of becoming root. Powerbroker or other tools including Tivoli, puppet etc are included. If you can run a puppet script as root, you’re root. Sent from my iPad > On Apr 17, 2020, at 11:56 AM, John Malloy <jomalloy(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > What is the best way to provide proof to an audit person who needs to know all the root/sudo users for a RHEL 6 server? > > (I am new at this company, and don't have access to all their resources) > > We can provide the /etc/passwd & /etc/sudoers file (the auditor may not know how to read these files) > > We also have the RedHat Identity Management running here, but I am not familiar with this tool. > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > Thanks! > > > John Malloy > jomalloy(a)gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > bblisa mailing list > bblisa(a)bblisa.org > http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa

April 18, 2020