November 2019 - WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

Re: [EXT] Call for help with network hardware setup

by Anderson, Charles R

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 03:04:21PM -0500, Keith Wright wrote: > In production they are _very_ different subnets. > The LAN is 192.168.1.* while the internet address is > 66.92.74.188/24. I am just trying to test it all > with both cables going to things that I control. > > > If you want them to be in the same subnet (why?) > > As I said, just for testing. Would it help to test > with address 192.168.2.1/24 (note 2 in second to low order byte). > I've never tried to use such an address, and I am not > sure how to configure the other machines to use it > without trying to route through gateway to the internet. Yes. If you want to test with a test router and test network, then you need to set up a test network and plug a test system into it. If you have this now: realsystem---[REAL-LAN switch]---[REAL-LAN-interface realrouter REAL-WAN-interface]---Internet REAL-LAN-interface is presumably 192.168.1.1/24. REAL-WAN-interface is whatever your ISP gave you. Then this could be your test network: testsystem---[TEST-LAN switch]---[TEST-LAN-interface testrouter TEST-WAN-interface]---[REAL-LAN-Switch] TEST-LAN switch could just be a (crossover) ethernet cable if you don't want more than one test system or don't have another switch. testrouter is your new Debian system. testsystem == 192.168.2.10/24, default gateway == 192.168.2.1 TEST-LAN-interface == 192.168.2.1/24 TEST-WAN-interface == 192.168.1.xxx/24 (a free IP on your real network), default gateway 192.168.1.1

Nov. 22, 2019

Re: [EXT] Call for help with network hardware setup

by Keith Wright

"Anderson, Charles R via WLUG" <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes: >> Have I found a bug? Done something stupid? > > You have two NICs configured in the same subnet. If you intend to > make two subnets for the Green and Red NICs, make sure the subnet > addresses doesn't overlap. In production they are _very_ different subnets. The LAN is 192.168.1.* while the internet address is 66.92.74.188/24. I am just trying to test it all with both cables going to things that I control. > If you want them to be in the same subnet (why?) As I said, just for testing. Would it help to test with address 192.168.2.1/24 (note 2 in second to low order byte). I've never tried to use such an address, and I am not sure how to configure the other machines to use it without trying to route through gateway to the internet. >then the behavior you see is normal for Weak Host Model systems: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_model Thank you for that link. I added it to the web page and will continue to update as I learn more. > You can reconfigure your system for Strong Host Model and/or use > multiple routing tables and source rules to control which NIC is used > for which traffic: > > https://access.redhat.com/solutions/30564 Roger. Will read. -- Keith

Nov. 22, 2019

Re: [EXT] Call for help with network hardware setup

by Anderson, Charles R

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 01:39:24PM -0500, Keith Wright via WLUG wrote: > I am using Debian and trying to set up a couple of > ethernet cards. I've seen strange behavior. > > Have I found a bug? Done something stupid? > > Rather than clog the WLUG list with details, > I have put my question on a web page, which > I will update as I learn more: > > http://www.free-comp-shop.com/ether.html You have two NICs configured in the same subnet. If you intend to make two subnets for the Green and Red NICs, make sure the subnet addresses doesn't overlap. If you want them to be in the same subnet (why?) then the behavior you see is normal for Weak Host Model systems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_model You can reconfigure your system for Strong Host Model and/or use multiple routing tables and source rules to control which NIC is used for which traffic: https://access.redhat.com/solutions/30564

Nov. 22, 2019

Call for help with network hardware setup

by Keith Wright

I am using Debian and trying to set up a couple of ethernet cards. I've seen strange behavior. Have I found a bug? Done something stupid? Rather than clog the WLUG list with details, I have put my question on a web page, which I will update as I learn more: http://www.free-comp-shop.com/ether.html -- Keith

Nov. 22, 2019

Re: Ideas for the next WLUG meeting

by John Stoffel

Joshua> Thank you for your input! I was unfamiliar with duc's UI when Joshua> I first tried using it, but now I'm much more proficient with Joshua> it. If you have any comments or suggestions for the tool to make it better, we'd love to hear it. I've got some plans for this winter to update the code and do better testing, so maybe adding some flatpaks (or directions on how to make flatpaks) would be a great addition. Joshua> I'm more than happy to share my findings with you so that more Joshua> people can benefit from useful tools like this. Speaking of Joshua> which, I've also managed to create a proof-of-concept flatpak Joshua> of duc which you may find useful for learning the conventions Joshua> of this app deployment technology: Joshua> https://github.com/joshua-stone/nl.zevv.Duc Joshua> I hope you can make it to the next meeting! I'm going to try Joshua> to make it to the next meeting as well, but it'd have to be Joshua> well before Christmas because I'll be on vacation for a couple Joshua> weeks. I might make the December meeting, but the January and February ones are right out since I'm chaperoning ski club on thursdays. John

Nov. 20, 2019

Re: Ideas for the next WLUG meeting

by Joshua Stone

John, Thank you for your input! I was unfamiliar with duc's UI when I first tried using it, but now I'm much more proficient with it. I'm more than happy to share my findings with you so that more people can benefit from useful tools like this. Speaking of which, I've also managed to create a proof-of-concept flatpak of duc which you may find useful for learning the conventions of this app deployment technology: https://github.com/joshua-stone/nl.zevv.Duc I hope you can make it to the next meeting! I'm going to try to make it to the next meeting as well, but it'd have to be well before Christmas because I'll be on vacation for a couple weeks. -Josh On Mon, 2019-11-18 at 21:43 -0500, John Stoffel wrote: > Josh, This is a great start for a talk, I really like your example of > setting up duc, though you don't need to build the cache yourself > with > tcbmgr, duc should do that itself on startup. > > I may borrow your docs and testing things out and update the duc docs > as well, since I think what you've done here is really neat. > > Looking forward to trying to make the next meeting, though December > thru February will be tough for me due to other commitments. > > John >

Nov. 20, 2019

Re: Ideas for the next WLUG meeting

by Joshua Stone

Tim, I'm glad you feel that way about it! The /sysroot upgrading process is one of my favorite features about Silverblue, as you gain some of thebenefits of COW snapshots without relying on a particular filesystem(example: https://github.com/openSUSE/snapper) GRUB is also enhanced where instead of selectinga different kernel, you're booting into an entirely different /sysroot complete with kernel, libc, drivers,firmware, etc. all of which are tagged under one discrete OS version string. This design shouldmake bug fixing a lot easier as a user may only need to attach the OS version string when filing a bugreport, and a developer could boot up that particular version inside a VM. This update model should alsoeliminate variance between "not updated" and "fully updated" like we see with traditional packagemanagement where a package mirror might not have synced all of the latest packages. The rollback mechanism is also quite innovative, which Silverblue can get for free by designing updatesthat perform the equivalent of `git checkout ${BRANCH}`. I'm sure there will be much to discuss when we get to have a demo. -Josh On Mon, 2019-11-18 at 13:45 -0500, Tim Keller wrote: > Josh, > I think this would be an awesome talk. I'm particularly interested in > the /sysroot upgrading process. > I like the idea of having an immutable root that you can unwind > things if they go horribly wrong. > > I'm game for having this as our Dec. topic! > > Thanks, > Tim. > > On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 12:03 PM Joshua Stone via WLUG < > wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > > > > > > > I'd just like to say I had a fun time at Thursday's meeting! I'm > > > > already looking forward to the next meeting as I'm sure there are > > > > plenty of interesting topics we could discuss. > > > > > > > > As mentioned before, I think we could examine technologies that'd > > be > > > > beneficial to Linux on the desktop, like comparing packaging > > > > technologies including Flatpak, Snap, and AppImage. > > > > > > > > I think we could also look into the future of containers on the > > desktop > > > > as a whole with projects like Flatpak, toolbox, podman, and > > Silverblue. > > > > > > > > My workflow over the past few years has been using these upcoming > > > > technologies as daily drivers as they lead to saner development. > > For > > > > example, my laptop runs Silverblue ( > > > > https://fedoramagazine.org/what-is-silverblue/) which is a Fedora > > > > variant designed around immutability where a new system image is > > > > committed as the new /sysroot without affecting the state of the > > > > running system. This is reminiscent of Android A/B updates, > > although > > > > the update backend -- ostree -- has elements of a version control > > > > system like git. > > > > > > > > Toolbox ( > > > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-silverblue/toolbox/) is > > > > also interesting as it lets you switch into an unprivileged > > development > > > > environment that can be built up and torn down without affecting > > the > > > > host as tools are installed inside a container. For example, I can > > > > build and install duc inside a toolbox without actually installing > > to > > > > the host /usr: > > > > > > > > [jstone@jstone-laptop ~]$ toolbox create --release 31 --container > > duc- > > > > test > > > > [jstone@jstone-laptop ~]$ toolbox enter --container duc-test > > > > ⬢[jstone@toolbox ~]$ git clone https://github.com/zevv/duc > > > > ⬢[jstone@toolbox ~]$ cd duc > > > > ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ sudo dnf --assumeyes install gcc make > > autoconf > > > > automake pango-devel cairo-devel tokyocabinet-devel ncurses-devel > > > > ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ autoreconf --install > > > > ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ ./configure > > > > ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ make > > > > ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ sudo make install # no password needed > > > > ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ mkdir ~/.cache/duc > > > > ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ tcbmgr create ~/.cache/duc/duc.db > > > > ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ duc index ~ > > > > ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ duc gui > > > > > > > > Finally, I've been installing most of my apps as Flatpaks, which > > uses > > > > the same file storage backend as Silverblue to manage apps and > > shared > > > > runtimes. This app distribution technology allows you to decouple > > apps > > > > and operating systems as everything is built and run inside a > > sandbox, > > > > making upgrades easier. Compare needing only one version of an app > > to > > > > package as a flatpak, versus packaging for different versions of > > > > distros: > > > > > > > > https://flathub.org/apps/details/org.clementine_player.Clementine > > > > https://www.clementine-player.org/downloads > > > > > > > > I'd be glad to hear what everyone has to say! > > > > > > > > -Josh > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > > > >

Nov. 20, 2019

Re: Ideas for the next WLUG meeting

by John Stoffel

Josh, This is a great start for a talk, I really like your example of setting up duc, though you don't need to build the cache yourself with tcbmgr, duc should do that itself on startup. I may borrow your docs and testing things out and update the duc docs as well, since I think what you've done here is really neat. Looking forward to trying to make the next meeting, though December thru February will be tough for me due to other commitments. John

Nov. 19, 2019

Re: Ideas for the next WLUG meeting

by Tim Keller

Josh, I think this would be an awesome talk. I'm particularly interested in the /sysroot upgrading process. I like the idea of having an immutable root that you can unwind things if they go horribly wrong. I'm game for having this as our Dec. topic! Thanks, Tim. On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 12:03 PM Joshua Stone via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I'd just like to say I had a fun time at Thursday's meeting! I'm > already looking forward to the next meeting as I'm sure there are > plenty of interesting topics we could discuss. > > As mentioned before, I think we could examine technologies that'd be > beneficial to Linux on the desktop, like comparing packaging > technologies including Flatpak, Snap, and AppImage. > > I think we could also look into the future of containers on the desktop > as a whole with projects like Flatpak, toolbox, podman, and Silverblue. > > My workflow over the past few years has been using these upcoming > technologies as daily drivers as they lead to saner development. For > example, my laptop runs Silverblue ( > https://fedoramagazine.org/what-is-silverblue/) which is a Fedora > variant designed around immutability where a new system image is > committed as the new /sysroot without affecting the state of the > running system. This is reminiscent of Android A/B updates, although > the update backend -- ostree -- has elements of a version control > system like git. > > Toolbox ( > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-silverblue/toolbox/) is > also interesting as it lets you switch into an unprivileged development > environment that can be built up and torn down without affecting the > host as tools are installed inside a container. For example, I can > build and install duc inside a toolbox without actually installing to > the host /usr: > > [jstone@jstone-laptop ~]$ toolbox create --release 31 --container duc- > test > [jstone@jstone-laptop ~]$ toolbox enter --container duc-test > ⬢[jstone@toolbox ~]$ git clone https://github.com/zevv/duc > ⬢[jstone@toolbox ~]$ cd duc > ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ sudo dnf --assumeyes install gcc make autoconf > automake pango-devel cairo-devel tokyocabinet-devel ncurses-devel > ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ autoreconf --install > ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ ./configure > ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ make > ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ sudo make install # no password needed > ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ mkdir ~/.cache/duc > ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ tcbmgr create ~/.cache/duc/duc.db > ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ duc index ~ > ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ duc gui > > Finally, I've been installing most of my apps as Flatpaks, which uses > the same file storage backend as Silverblue to manage apps and shared > runtimes. This app distribution technology allows you to decouple apps > and operating systems as everything is built and run inside a sandbox, > making upgrades easier. Compare needing only one version of an app to > package as a flatpak, versus packaging for different versions of > distros: > > https://flathub.org/apps/details/org.clementine_player.Clementine > https://www.clementine-player.org/downloads > > I'd be glad to hear what everyone has to say! > > -Josh > _______________________________________________ > WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org > -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Nov. 18, 2019

Ideas for the next WLUG meeting

by Joshua Stone

Hey everyone, I'd just like to say I had a fun time at Thursday's meeting! I'm already looking forward to the next meeting as I'm sure there are plenty of interesting topics we could discuss. As mentioned before, I think we could examine technologies that'd be beneficial to Linux on the desktop, like comparing packaging technologies including Flatpak, Snap, and AppImage. I think we could also look into the future of containers on the desktop as a whole with projects like Flatpak, toolbox, podman, and Silverblue. My workflow over the past few years has been using these upcoming technologies as daily drivers as they lead to saner development. For example, my laptop runs Silverblue ( https://fedoramagazine.org/what-is-silverblue/) which is a Fedora variant designed around immutability where a new system image is committed as the new /sysroot without affecting the state of the running system. This is reminiscent of Android A/B updates, although the update backend -- ostree -- has elements of a version control system like git. Toolbox ( https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-silverblue/toolbox/) is also interesting as it lets you switch into an unprivileged development environment that can be built up and torn down without affecting the host as tools are installed inside a container. For example, I can build and install duc inside a toolbox without actually installing to the host /usr: [jstone@jstone-laptop ~]$ toolbox create --release 31 --container duc- test [jstone@jstone-laptop ~]$ toolbox enter --container duc-test ⬢[jstone@toolbox ~]$ git clone https://github.com/zevv/duc ⬢[jstone@toolbox ~]$ cd duc ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ sudo dnf --assumeyes install gcc make autoconf automake pango-devel cairo-devel tokyocabinet-devel ncurses-devel ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ autoreconf --install ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ ./configure ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ make ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ sudo make install # no password needed ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ mkdir ~/.cache/duc ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ tcbmgr create ~/.cache/duc/duc.db ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ duc index ~ ⬢[jstone@toolbox duc]$ duc gui Finally, I've been installing most of my apps as Flatpaks, which uses the same file storage backend as Silverblue to manage apps and shared runtimes. This app distribution technology allows you to decouple apps and operating systems as everything is built and run inside a sandbox, making upgrades easier. Compare needing only one version of an app to package as a flatpak, versus packaging for different versions of distros: https://flathub.org/apps/details/org.clementine_player.Clementine https://www.clementine-player.org/downloads I'd be glad to hear what everyone has to say! -Josh

Nov. 16, 2019