April 2015 - WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

Re: [Wlug] Beaglebone Black

by Chuck Anderson

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 02:34:22PM -0400, John Stoffel wrote: > > Andy> I would like to know if any proprietary binary blobs are > Andy> required to use a Beaglebone Black. > > Andy> According to my findings, the Raspberry Pi has a proprietary binary blob > Andy> involved with booting the machine, and also controlling the video. It > Andy> wasn't so easy to find this information. > > Andy> I would prefer to use such a board with no proprietary software. That's > Andy> why I'm considering the Beaglebone Black. > > Hmmm... I've got one running now. Looking at the kernel config, I > see: > > CONFIG_FIRMWARE_IN_KERNEL=y > CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE="am335x-pm-firmware.bin" > CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE_DIR="firmware" > > > So it's running a binary blob for something. And that looks to be for > power management. So it might not be required. It may not be that well known, but various PC perhipherals also require binary blobs. They may ship separately from the linux kernel package, depending on your distro, but they may still be required for certain functionality. For example Fedora 21, which prides itself on having a strict free-software and patent unencumbered software policy, still ships with binary blobs: >rpm -qa --qf='%{license}\t%{name}-%{version}-%{release}.%{arch}\n' \*firmware\* GPL+ and GPLv2+ and MIT and Redistributable, no modification permitted linux-firmware-20150316-44.git020e534e.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted iwl105-firmware-18.168.6.1-44.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted iwl2030-firmware-18.168.6.1-44.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted iwl6000g2a-firmware-18.168.6.1-44.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted atmel-firmware-1.3-13.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted iwl7260-firmware-25.15.12.0-44.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted iwl3160-firmware-25.15.12.0-44.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted ipw2200-firmware-3.1-10.fc21.noarch (MIT or GPLv2+) and Redistributable, no modification permitted midisport-firmware-1.2-13.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted libertas-usb8388-firmware-20150316-44.git020e534e.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted iwl5000-firmware-8.83.5.1_1-44.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted iwl1000-firmware-39.31.5.1-44.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted iwl4965-firmware-228.61.2.24-44.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted iwl100-firmware-39.31.5.1-44.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted ipw2100-firmware-1.3-17.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted iwl6000-firmware-9.221.4.1-44.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted iwl135-firmware-18.168.6.1-44.fc21.noarch GPLv2 zd1211-firmware-1.4-10.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted iwl5150-firmware-8.24.2.2-44.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted iwl6000g2b-firmware-18.168.6.1-44.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted crystalhd-firmware-3.10.0-8.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted iwl2000-firmware-18.168.6.1-44.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted iwl3945-firmware-15.32.2.9-44.fc21.noarch Redistributable, no modification permitted iwl6050-firmware-41.28.5.1-44.fc21.noarch Most of those are for Wi-Fi or wired chipsets or video decoders. But let's take a look more closely at linux-firmware. There is lots of stuff in there: /usr/lib/firmware/3com /usr/lib/firmware/acenic /usr/lib/firmware/adaptec /usr/lib/firmware/advansys /usr/lib/firmware/agere_ap_fw.bin /usr/lib/firmware/agere_sta_fw.bin /usr/lib/firmware/amd-ucode /usr/lib/firmware/ar3k /usr/lib/firmware/ar5523.bin /usr/lib/firmware/ar7010_1_1.fw /usr/lib/firmware/ar7010.fw /usr/lib/firmware/ar9170-1.fw /usr/lib/firmware/ar9170-2.fw /usr/lib/firmware/ar9271.fw /usr/lib/firmware/as102_data1_st.hex /usr/lib/firmware/as102_data2_st.hex /usr/lib/firmware/ath3k-1.fw /usr/lib/firmware/ath6k /usr/lib/firmware/atmsar11.fw /usr/lib/firmware/av7110 /usr/lib/firmware/bnx2 /usr/lib/firmware/bnx2x /usr/lib/firmware/bnx2x-e1-4.8.53.0.fw /usr/lib/firmware/bnx2x-e1-5.2.13.0.fw /usr/lib/firmware/bnx2x-e1-5.2.7.0.fw /usr/lib/firmware/bnx2x-e1h-4.8.53.0.fw /usr/lib/firmware/bnx2x-e1h-5.2.13.0.fw /usr/lib/firmware/bnx2x-e1h-5.2.7.0.fw /usr/lib/firmware/brcm /usr/lib/firmware/carl9170-1.fw /usr/lib/firmware/cbfw-3.2.1.1.bin /usr/lib/firmware/cbfw-3.2.3.0.bin /usr/lib/firmware/cbfw-3.2.5.1.bin /usr/lib/firmware/cis /usr/lib/firmware/cmmb_vega_12mhz.inp /usr/lib/firmware/cmmb_venice_12mhz.inp /usr/lib/firmware/configure /usr/lib/firmware/cpia2 /usr/lib/firmware/ct2fw-3.2.1.1.bin /usr/lib/firmware/ct2fw-3.2.3.0.bin /usr/lib/firmware/ct2fw-3.2.5.1.bin /usr/lib/firmware/ctfw-3.2.1.1.bin /usr/lib/firmware/ctfw-3.2.3.0.bin /usr/lib/firmware/ctfw-3.2.5.1.bin /usr/lib/firmware/cxgb3 /usr/lib/firmware/cxgb4 /usr/lib/firmware/dabusb /usr/lib/firmware/dsp56k /usr/lib/firmware/dvb-fe-xc4000-1.4.1.fw /usr/lib/firmware/dvb-fe-xc5000-1.6.114.fw /usr/lib/firmware/dvb-fe-xc5000c-4.1.30.7.fw /usr/lib/firmware/dvb_nova_12mhz_b0.inp /usr/lib/firmware/dvb_nova_12mhz.inp /usr/lib/firmware/dvb-usb-dib0700-1.20.fw /usr/lib/firmware/dvb-usb-it9135-01.fw /usr/lib/firmware/dvb-usb-it9135-02.fw /usr/lib/firmware/dvb-usb-terratec-h5-drxk.fw /usr/lib/firmware/e100 /usr/lib/firmware/edgeport /usr/lib/firmware/emi26 /usr/lib/firmware/emi62 /usr/lib/firmware/ene-ub6250 /usr/lib/firmware/f2255usb.bin /usr/lib/firmware/go7007 /usr/lib/firmware/GPL-3 /usr/lib/firmware/htc_7010.fw /usr/lib/firmware/htc_9271.fw /usr/lib/firmware/i2400m-fw-usb-1.4.sbcf /usr/lib/firmware/i2400m-fw-usb-1.5.sbcf /usr/lib/firmware/i6050-fw-usb-1.5.sbcf /usr/lib/firmware/intel /usr/lib/firmware/intelliport2.bin /usr/lib/firmware/isci /usr/lib/firmware/isdbt_nova_12mhz_b0.inp /usr/lib/firmware/isdbt_nova_12mhz.inp /usr/lib/firmware/isdbt_rio.inp /usr/lib/firmware/kaweth /usr/lib/firmware/keyspan /usr/lib/firmware/keyspan_pda /usr/lib/firmware/lbtf_usb.bin /usr/lib/firmware/lgs8g75.fw /usr/lib/firmware/libertas /usr/lib/firmware/Makefile /usr/lib/firmware/matrox /usr/lib/firmware/moxa /usr/lib/firmware/mrvl /usr/lib/firmware/mt7650.bin /usr/lib/firmware/mts_cdma.fw /usr/lib/firmware/mts_edge.fw /usr/lib/firmware/mts_gsm.fw /usr/lib/firmware/mts_mt9234mu.fw /usr/lib/firmware/mts_mt9234zba.fw /usr/lib/firmware/mwl8k /usr/lib/firmware/myri10ge_eth_big_z8e.dat /usr/lib/firmware/myri10ge_ethp_big_z8e.dat /usr/lib/firmware/myri10ge_ethp_z8e.dat /usr/lib/firmware/myri10ge_eth_z8e.dat /usr/lib/firmware/myri10ge_rss_eth_big_z8e.dat /usr/lib/firmware/myri10ge_rss_ethp_big_z8e.dat /usr/lib/firmware/myri10ge_rss_ethp_z8e.dat /usr/lib/firmware/myri10ge_rss_eth_z8e.dat /usr/lib/firmware/myricom /usr/lib/firmware/nvidia /usr/lib/firmware/ositech /usr/lib/firmware/phanfw.bin /usr/lib/firmware/qat_895xcc.bin /usr/lib/firmware/ql2100_fw.bin /usr/lib/firmware/ql2200_fw.bin /usr/lib/firmware/ql2300_fw.bin /usr/lib/firmware/ql2322_fw.bin /usr/lib/firmware/ql2400_fw.bin /usr/lib/firmware/ql2500_fw.bin /usr/lib/firmware/qlogic /usr/lib/firmware/r128 /usr/lib/firmware/r8a779x_usb3_v1.dlmem /usr/lib/firmware/radeon /usr/lib/firmware/README /usr/lib/firmware/rp2.fw /usr/lib/firmware/rsi_91x.fw /usr/lib/firmware/rt2561.bin /usr/lib/firmware/rt2561s.bin /usr/lib/firmware/rt2661.bin /usr/lib/firmware/rt2860.bin /usr/lib/firmware/rt2870.bin /usr/lib/firmware/rt3070.bin /usr/lib/firmware/rt3071.bin /usr/lib/firmware/rt3090.bin /usr/lib/firmware/rt3290.bin /usr/lib/firmware/rt73.bin /usr/lib/firmware/RTL8192E /usr/lib/firmware/rtl_nic /usr/lib/firmware/rtlwifi /usr/lib/firmware/s2250.fw /usr/lib/firmware/s2250_loader.fw /usr/lib/firmware/s5p-mfc.fw /usr/lib/firmware/s5p-mfc-v6.fw /usr/lib/firmware/s5p-mfc-v6-v2.fw /usr/lib/firmware/s5p-mfc-v7.fw /usr/lib/firmware/s5p-mfc-v8.fw /usr/lib/firmware/sdd_sagrad_1091_1098.bin /usr/lib/firmware/slicoss /usr/lib/firmware/sms1xxx-hcw-55xxx-dvbt-02.fw /usr/lib/firmware/sms1xxx-hcw-55xxx-isdbt-02.fw /usr/lib/firmware/sms1xxx-nova-a-dvbt-01.fw /usr/lib/firmware/sms1xxx-nova-b-dvbt-01.fw /usr/lib/firmware/sms1xxx-stellar-dvbt-01.fw /usr/lib/firmware/sun /usr/lib/firmware/sxg /usr/lib/firmware/TDA7706_OM_v2.5.1_boot.txt /usr/lib/firmware/TDA7706_OM_v3.0.2_boot.txt /usr/lib/firmware/tdmb_nova_12mhz.inp /usr/lib/firmware/tehuti /usr/lib/firmware/ti_3410.fw /usr/lib/firmware/ti_5052.fw /usr/lib/firmware/ti-connectivity /usr/lib/firmware/tigon /usr/lib/firmware/tlg2300_firmware.bin /usr/lib/firmware/tr_smctr.bin /usr/lib/firmware/ttusb-budget /usr/lib/firmware/ueagle-atm /usr/lib/firmware/updates /usr/lib/firmware/usbdux /usr/lib/firmware/usbduxfast_firmware.bin /usr/lib/firmware/usbdux_firmware.bin /usr/lib/firmware/usbduxsigma_firmware.bin /usr/lib/firmware/v4l-cx231xx-avcore-01.fw /usr/lib/firmware/v4l-cx23885-avcore-01.fw /usr/lib/firmware/vicam /usr/lib/firmware/vntwusb.fw /usr/lib/firmware/vxge /usr/lib/firmware/whiteheat.fw /usr/lib/firmware/whiteheat_loader.fw /usr/lib/firmware/wsm_22.bin /usr/lib/firmware/yam The FSF maintains a list of distros and their "free-ness". Most of them fail due to including binary blobs: https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html Here are the ones they consider to be "free": https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html "This means these distros will include, and propose, exclusively free software. They will reject nonfree applications, nonfree programming platforms, nonfree drivers, nonfree firmware “blobs”, nonfree games, and any other nonfree software, as well as nonfree manuals or documentation."

April 30, 2015

Re: [Wlug] Beaglebone Black

by John Stoffel

Andy> I would like to know if any proprietary binary blobs are Andy> required to use a Beaglebone Black. Andy> According to my findings, the Raspberry Pi has a proprietary binary blob Andy> involved with booting the machine, and also controlling the video. It Andy> wasn't so easy to find this information. Andy> I would prefer to use such a board with no proprietary software. That's Andy> why I'm considering the Beaglebone Black. Hmmm... I've got one running now. Looking at the kernel config, I see: CONFIG_FIRMWARE_IN_KERNEL=y CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE="am335x-pm-firmware.bin" CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE_DIR="firmware" So it's running a binary blob for something. And that looks to be for power management. So it might not be required. John

April 30, 2015

Re: [Wlug] ZFS on Linux vs. BTRFS or stick with EXT4?

by John Stoffel

It seems to me that you want both resiliency (able to suffer a drive failure) and checksums of the files you have on there as well. Would it make more sense to use 'tripwire' with an ext4 filesystem? I know that rock solid filesystems are my choice. I've looked at using XFS and JFS in the past... but the downsides were just too much for my tastes. Esp since I do like to upgrade kernels and such. Being able to resize the filesystem (offline is fine) is a winner. Online resizing would be even better, but that's a much tougher nut to crack. Chuck> Hi Jeff, its nice to provoke a response out of you...when are you Chuck> coming to a meeting? :-) Chuck> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 09:40:09AM -0400, Jeff Moyer wrote: >> I wouldn't trust my data to btrfs, especially if you're using anything >> other than the default mkfs and mount options. But don't take my word >> for it, have a look through the btrfs mailing list archives[1]. Chuck> I see what you mean. People are still asking questions "how do I fix Chuck> this broken fs?" and being told to upgrade to linux kernel 4.0. >> I have no experience with zfs on linux, but I've heard that data >> checksums have a signficant performance impact. I don't have any data >> on that, so you should probably do your own benchmarking to verify >> things perform well enough for your workload. >> >> If I were you, I'd use xfs. Chuck> I don't like XFS because it can't be shrunk in place. Too many times Chuck> I've needed to shrink one LV to make space for another LV. Chuck> _______________________________________________ Chuck> Wlug mailing list Chuck> Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org Chuck> http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

April 30, 2015

Re: [Wlug] Beaglebone Black

by Andy Stewart

On 04/29/2015 09:18 PM, Jon "maddog" Hall wrote: > Andy, > > Why not ask that question in the BBB forums? HI maddog, I was using this as an excuse to talk to my friends in WLUG. :-) It has been a while since I said "hello". Andy -- Andy Stewart (KB1OIQ) Founder: Worcester Linux Users' Group Founder: Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group President: PART of Westford, MA (WB1GOF)

April 30, 2015

Re: [Wlug] Beaglebone Black

by Jon "maddog" Hall

Andy, Why not ask that question in the BBB forums? On Apr 29, 2015 21:03, "Andy Stewart" <andystewart(a)comcast.net> wrote: > > Hi Everybody, > > I would like to know if any proprietary binary blobs are required to use > a Beaglebone Black. > > According to my findings, the Raspberry Pi has a proprietary binary blob > involved with booting the machine, and also controlling the video. It > wasn't so easy to find this information. > > I would prefer to use such a board with no proprietary software. That's > why I'm considering the Beaglebone Black. > > Does anybody know the definitive answer? I've searched a lot of > websites to no avail. > > Thanks! > > Andy > > -- > Andy Stewart (KB1OIQ) > Founder: Worcester Linux Users' Group > Founder: Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group > President: PART of Westford, MA (WB1GOF) > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

April 30, 2015

Beaglebone Black

by Andy Stewart

Hi Everybody, I would like to know if any proprietary binary blobs are required to use a Beaglebone Black. According to my findings, the Raspberry Pi has a proprietary binary blob involved with booting the machine, and also controlling the video. It wasn't so easy to find this information. I would prefer to use such a board with no proprietary software. That's why I'm considering the Beaglebone Black. Does anybody know the definitive answer? I've searched a lot of websites to no avail. Thanks! Andy -- Andy Stewart (KB1OIQ) Founder: Worcester Linux Users' Group Founder: Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group President: PART of Westford, MA (WB1GOF)

April 30, 2015

Re: [Wlug] ZFS on Linux vs. BTRFS or stick with EXT4?

by Jeff Moyer

Chuck Anderson <cra(a)WPI.EDU> writes: > Hi Jeff, its nice to provoke a response out of you...when are you > coming to a meeting? :-) Heh. Not sure. I had considered asking if the group would be interested in a talk on persistent memory. >> If I were you, I'd use xfs. > > I don't like XFS because it can't be shrunk in place. Too many times > I've needed to shrink one LV to make space for another LV. OK. You could use dm-thinp for this, but I understand an aversion to adding another layer. Cheers, Jeff

April 29, 2015

Re: [Wlug] ZFS on Linux vs. BTRFS or stick with EXT4?

by Chuck Anderson

Hi Jeff, its nice to provoke a response out of you...when are you coming to a meeting? :-) On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 09:40:09AM -0400, Jeff Moyer wrote: > I wouldn't trust my data to btrfs, especially if you're using anything > other than the default mkfs and mount options. But don't take my word > for it, have a look through the btrfs mailing list archives[1]. I see what you mean. People are still asking questions "how do I fix this broken fs?" and being told to upgrade to linux kernel 4.0. > I have no experience with zfs on linux, but I've heard that data > checksums have a signficant performance impact. I don't have any data > on that, so you should probably do your own benchmarking to verify > things perform well enough for your workload. > > If I were you, I'd use xfs. I don't like XFS because it can't be shrunk in place. Too many times I've needed to shrink one LV to make space for another LV.

April 29, 2015

Re: [Wlug] ZFS on Linux vs. BTRFS or stick with EXT4?

by Jeff Moyer

Chuck Anderson <cra(a)WPI.EDU> writes: > I'm migrating to new large drives and would lke to take advantage of a > filesystem that has integrated data and metadata checksums. How well > does ZFS on Linux really work? What is the current status of BTRFS? > Which one would you trust your precious data to? I've been out of the > loop lately... This would be a great meeting topic! "How to set up > ZFS on Linux and/or BTRFS". Any takers? I wouldn't trust my data to btrfs, especially if you're using anything other than the default mkfs and mount options. But don't take my word for it, have a look through the btrfs mailing list archives[1]. I have no experience with zfs on linux, but I've heard that data checksums have a signficant performance impact. I don't have any data on that, so you should probably do your own benchmarking to verify things perform well enough for your workload. If I were you, I'd use xfs. Cheers, Jeff [1] http://marc.info/?l=linux-btrfs

April 29, 2015

Re: [Wlug] ZFS on Linux vs. BTRFS or stick with EXT4?

by Chuck Anderson

2 x 4TB, RAID 1, I prefer to boot from them (hmmm...although not booting from them is an excuse to buy an SSD for the boot drive...) I already use ZFS on FreeNAS, but I'm wary of using ZFS on Linux since it is a third-party addon, you must recompile it every time the kernel changes, etc. I never liked having to do that for the Nvidia driver. Losing your video display is one thing, losing access to your data is much worse... On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 06:19:19AM -0400, Tim Keller wrote: > Since I use zfs on a daily basis, I'd be glad to talk about it. > > How big are these drives? While you can use zfs as your boot FS, I think > I'd stick with lvm/ext4 for / and / boot. I'd then carve out a big data > space and use zfs for that. Are these disks going to raided? > > Thanks, > Tim. > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2015, Chuck Anderson <cra(a)wpi.edu> wrote: > > I'm migrating to new large drives and would lke to take advantage of a > > filesystem that has integrated data and metadata checksums. How well > > does ZFS on Linux really work? What is the current status of BTRFS? > > Which one would you trust your precious data to? I've been out of the > > loop lately... This would be a great meeting topic! "How to set up > > ZFS on Linux and/or BTRFS". Any takers?

April 29, 2015