August 2009 - WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

Re: [Wlug] On the subject of building systems - Re: PC-BSD, FreeBSD, and iXsystems - anyone know about them?

by Gary Hanley

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009, Clint Moyer wrote: > I'll add that there are a lot of advantages to building with an > integrated motherboard. I agree from a convenience and cost perspective, however if optimal performance is a priority you still need to purchase discrete components. No matter how much the technology advances intergrated components will alway reduce the overall perform of a system to a variable degree. -- Gary

Aug. 10, 2009

Re: [Wlug] On the subject of building systems - Re: PC-BSD, FreeBSD, and iXsystems - anyone know about them?

by Clint Moyer

I'll add that there are a lot of advantages to building with an integrated motherboard. Asus mobos are especially well designed. In fact, most of their current product line incorporates Splash Top, which is Linux embedded in the BIOS that allows you to boot into a basic OS before hitting the hard drive. If you buy one, you can be sure all the components are Linux compatible. My last three builds have been Asus mATX. Clint ---- E Johnson <iris.gates(a)gmail.com> wrote: ============= I have, built April 2009: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600 Brisbane 2.9GHz Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor - $64.99 ASUS M3A78-CM AM2+/AM2 AMD 780V Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - $74.99 Kingston 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - $44.99 Cooler Master Elite 335 RC-335-KKN1-GP Black SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $49.99 Acer X193W+BD Black 19" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor Some SATA hard drive... don't know offhand. Some DVD drive, I forget, nothing spectacular. According to ASUS, this motherboard is a "Corporate Stable Model (CSM) for long-term availability." It has DVI and VGA output. Specs & reviews here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131330

Aug. 10, 2009

Re: [Wlug] (no subject)

by Gregory Avedissian

Brian McLinden wrote: > > What do you think about this workaround -- > http://www.inatux.com/order These are FSF/FOSS people. I can't see I would recommend more than their base system. Go with a dual-core cpu and probably 2G memory, since it's so cheap now ($30-40 at newegg), and bigger hard drive (e.g. 250GB for around $50). How much do they want with those upgrades? > > And, for cable broadband and live streaming of audio and video, what > combination or package(s) of HW ad SW should I ask for. Wired case? > Wireless case? If you're talking about wired vs. wireless network, it's a lot easier to go with wired. Any linux distro will get you online with a basic desktop installation. (OK, there are probably exceptions.) You'll also get audio and video players. For audio and video, you might need to install additional codecs, but that's generally pretty easy to do. Why don't you want to install the OS yourself? > 4. What Linux distribution would you pair with Unix? > > And, what will I learn from one that I don't learn from the other? > I'm just going to reiterate what others said. You'll learn a lot from installing the OS yourself. Ubuntu is a good choice if you're new to linux, but anything in the top 5 or 10 in the list at distrowatch.com is probably a good choice. The installation procedure is pretty easy these days (on the major distros). Leave room on your hard drive for additional partitions to try other flavors of linux if you want. That's sometimes a better choice than trying it in a VM, because then you get to see how the OS works with your hardware. That tends to be more of an issue when you're using the latest hardware. Greg

Aug. 10, 2009

Re: [Wlug] (no subject)

by James Gray

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 6:43 PM, Brian McLinden<brian.mclinden(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > 3. YOUR advice for a would be hacker? > > I wonder how folks in this forum might vary from the following > position. Would you prioritize or sequence things differently? > > “Start out by learning bash, then set up your own Unix environment. > This is a biggie. PC-BSD works fine. Learn to use it for your everyday > tasks, learn how to administrate it and keep it up to date and secure. > Then, when you've done that, start in with Python. Solve the Project > Euler problems in whatever language you're learning. Learn which > languages are better suited for particular problems. Learn about > security in programs, vulnerabilities and how to exploit them. Read > other people's code and post your own. Learn the low-level stuff > later.” A starting hacker probably has some idea of the sort of problem they want to solve. Based on the type of problem you are looking to solve someone could steer you toward a choice of languages that try to solve such problems. There are 'introduction to programming' books for most programming languages and in some cases they might be found on line. If one is learning programming as a hobby then I would say learn about the stuff that interests you and follow your nose. Read from books and on line sources. Learn at least one programming language very well. Above all else spend a lot of time writing code - it is a skill after all. I've been meaning to put together a introduction presentation to the python language, but other priorities have my time right now. :-(

Aug. 10, 2009

Re: [Wlug] (no subject)

by Alexander Haley

> Anyone have reading (book, online) suggestions geared at accessible > intro level? More intermediate level? Brian, I have recently read (most of) 'Code : The Hidden Language of Computer Hardware and Software' by Charles Petzold. He takes the reader from the simple on/off flashlight circuit, through the mechanical relays found in telegraph systems, to fundamental computing devices -- and that is only just where I've read through (chapter 17 of 25) - It is available via the central mass library system - so free! I sincerely hope if you check it out, that you like it. Best wishes, Alexander

Aug. 10, 2009

(no subject)

by Brian McLinden

Hi all, Thanks for your helpful postings. I'm coming back to ask further help in sharpening issues before me.. I see four now: 1. Understanding the machine Wanting a more general perspective that will help me anticipate and navigate OS issues as they arise. Just ordered http://www.amazon.com/Write-Great-Code-Understanding-Machine/dp/1593270038/… Anyone have reading (book, online) suggestions geared at accessible intro level? More intermediate level? 2. Getting a machine Freedom of choice in the component market is overwhelming. A curse, actually. I'd be losing significant time just learning how to spec a system. In the Worcester area, is there anyone I can pay to put together a machine for me with some bit of craftsmanship and reliability? That way I can have substantially more control over machine quality. Do any of you have a favorite components list? I'd be most interested in a machine designed for silence, and I'm quite willing to study up on that issue.. fan noise drives me nuts when I'm coding. What do you think about this workaround -- http://www.inatux.com/order These are FSF/FOSS people. I can't see a need for a super fast system yet, as I can't say yet where my project interests will gravitate. In light of that, since optimality makes no sense, what machine specs do you think would be “good enough”? Desirable packages to install? And, for cable broadband and live streaming of audio and video, what combination or package(s) of HW ad SW should I ask for. Wired case? Wireless case? 3. YOUR advice for a would be hacker? I wonder how folks in this forum might vary from the following position. Would you prioritize or sequence things differently? “Start out by learning bash, then set up your own Unix environment. This is a biggie. PC-BSD works fine. Learn to use it for your everyday tasks, learn how to administrate it and keep it up to date and secure. Then, when you've done that, start in with Python. Solve the Project Euler problems in whatever language you're learning. Learn which languages are better suited for particular problems. Learn about security in programs, vulnerabilities and how to exploit them. Read other people's code and post your own. Learn the low-level stuff later.” 4. What Linux distribution would you pair with Unix? And, what will I learn from one that I don't learn from the other? Thanks, in advance, for thoughts, reactions, give and take! Brian

Aug. 9, 2009

Re: [Wlug] On the subject of building systems - Re: PC-BSD, FreeBSD, and iXsystems - anyone know about them?

by David Glaser

Thanks for the info. -David E Johnson wrote: > I have, built April 2009: > > AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600 Brisbane 2.9GHz Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core > Processor - $64.99 > ASUS M3A78-CM AM2+/AM2 AMD 780V Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - $74.99 > Kingston 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual > Channel Kit Desktop Memory - $44.99 > Cooler Master Elite 335 RC-335-KKN1-GP Black SECC Steel ATX Mid > Tower Computer Case - $49.99 > Acer X193W+BD Black 19" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor > > Some SATA hard drive... don't know offhand. > Some DVD drive, I forget, nothing spectacular. > > According to ASUS, this motherboard is a "Corporate Stable Model (CSM) > for long-term availability." It has DVI and VGA output. Specs & > reviews here: > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131330 > > Running on this PC, Debian Lenny (kernel 2.6.26-2-686 Bigmem). > > I have another PC very similar, same mobo but 2.8 gig AMD processor, > built Dec. 2008. This PC has a nVidia Corporation GeForce 8500 GT vid > card that came out of a homebuilt monster running twin dual Xeons, in > which the mobo fried. This PC runs Ubuntu Hardy (kernel 2.6.24-generic) > > These two PCs run cool with only the stock coolers on the CPU, and the > case fans. Right now it's 65 outside, maybe 70 in here, the > motherboards are both 39C and the processors are 40C (mine, using it > now) and the other one at 42C. > > The onboard audio chips work fine under Ubuntu and under Debian Lenny. > > The vid chip in the one without the separate vid card seems to warm up > if I am doing certain video-intensive operations, although this is > rare. It runs movies like Youtube videos just fine, but certain online > viewers, such as like zoom viewers on websites, seem to heat it up > some. I haven't checked to see if the same type of operations heat up > the vid card in the other PC. > > Ethernet chip also works fine, needed no special tweaking. Nothing > needed additional drivers downloaded. > > Setting up this mobo was a little odd at first. It would not recognize > an older HP flatscreen monitor, but can see the Acer monitors just > fine. I RMA'd one mobo before I figured out the problem was the > monitor, not the vid chip on the mobo. HP techs had no clue why this > monitor was not recognized, and could only suggest downloading a > different driver... not needed with the more recently-purchased Acer > monitor. > > I like these monitors very much. They are 19" -- not too big for the > tabletop setup here, yet have 1680 x 1050 resolution, which is hard to > get in the 19" monitors. The monitors now cost about $99 to $119 > depending on who's selling them. These monitors are also among the few > in this size and price range that come with a DVI cable in the box. > > Greg Avedissian of WLUG built these PCs (among many others he's > built), and he may be able to offer further advice. He does a really > nice job building these things & getting them running. I usually am > running several different apps in different windows, all at the same > time. The speed of the processor is very good, and a dual-core is fine > for me. I can wholeheartedly say that I am very happy with these PCs. > All the components work together very well, and they easily do > everything I need. > > Hope this helps. > Liz J > > > 2009/8/9 David Glaser <dglaser(a)glaserresearch.net > <mailto:dglaser@glaserresearch.net>> > > It has been ten years since I built a system and I figure I should > do it > again to refresh my skills. > > I took a look at motherboards and processor combinations and I was > overwhelmed by the proliferation of choices. > > What I was wondering if I could get the members of the group to share > the basic configuration of systems they have built to give me an > idea of > what I should look at. > > I want to build a compute/file server. I do a lot of heavy duty > software development using the Eclipse IDE and the Java and C++ > Development tools. Also, I need to store a lot of data - mostly > images. > > My house is wired with a 1GB Ethernet so I have good bandwidth to > access > the server. > > Thank you for any help. > > -David > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org <mailto:Wlug@mail.wlug.org> > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

Aug. 9, 2009

Re: [Wlug] On the subject of building systems - Re: PC-BSD, FreeBSD, and iXsystems - anyone know about them?

by E Johnson

I have, built April 2009: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600 Brisbane 2.9GHz Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor - $64.99 ASUS M3A78-CM AM2+/AM2 AMD 780V Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - $74.99 Kingston 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - $44.99 Cooler Master Elite 335 RC-335-KKN1-GP Black SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $49.99 Acer X193W+BD Black 19" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor Some SATA hard drive... don't know offhand. Some DVD drive, I forget, nothing spectacular. According to ASUS, this motherboard is a "Corporate Stable Model (CSM) for long-term availability." It has DVI and VGA output. Specs & reviews here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131330 Running on this PC, Debian Lenny (kernel 2.6.26-2-686 Bigmem). I have another PC very similar, same mobo but 2.8 gig AMD processor, built Dec. 2008. This PC has a nVidia Corporation GeForce 8500 GT vid card that came out of a homebuilt monster running twin dual Xeons, in which the mobo fried. This PC runs Ubuntu Hardy (kernel 2.6.24-generic) These two PCs run cool with only the stock coolers on the CPU, and the case fans. Right now it's 65 outside, maybe 70 in here, the motherboards are both 39C and the processors are 40C (mine, using it now) and the other one at 42C. The onboard audio chips work fine under Ubuntu and under Debian Lenny. The vid chip in the one without the separate vid card seems to warm up if I am doing certain video-intensive operations, although this is rare. It runs movies like Youtube videos just fine, but certain online viewers, such as like zoom viewers on websites, seem to heat it up some. I haven't checked to see if the same type of operations heat up the vid card in the other PC. Ethernet chip also works fine, needed no special tweaking. Nothing needed additional drivers downloaded. Setting up this mobo was a little odd at first. It would not recognize an older HP flatscreen monitor, but can see the Acer monitors just fine. I RMA'd one mobo before I figured out the problem was the monitor, not the vid chip on the mobo. HP techs had no clue why this monitor was not recognized, and could only suggest downloading a different driver... not needed with the more recently-purchased Acer monitor. I like these monitors very much. They are 19" -- not too big for the tabletop setup here, yet have 1680 x 1050 resolution, which is hard to get in the 19" monitors. The monitors now cost about $99 to $119 depending on who's selling them. These monitors are also among the few in this size and price range that come with a DVI cable in the box. Greg Avedissian of WLUG built these PCs (among many others he's built), and he may be able to offer further advice. He does a really nice job building these things & getting them running. I usually am running several different apps in different windows, all at the same time. The speed of the processor is very good, and a dual-core is fine for me. I can wholeheartedly say that I am very happy with these PCs. All the components work together very well, and they easily do everything I need. Hope this helps. Liz J 2009/8/9 David Glaser <dglaser(a)glaserresearch.net> > It has been ten years since I built a system and I figure I should do it > again to refresh my skills. > > I took a look at motherboards and processor combinations and I was > overwhelmed by the proliferation of choices. > > What I was wondering if I could get the members of the group to share > the basic configuration of systems they have built to give me an idea of > what I should look at. > > I want to build a compute/file server. I do a lot of heavy duty > software development using the Eclipse IDE and the Java and C++ > Development tools. Also, I need to store a lot of data - mostly images. > > My house is wired with a 1GB Ethernet so I have good bandwidth to access > the server. > > Thank you for any help. > > -David > > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

Aug. 9, 2009

On the subject of building systems - Re: PC-BSD, FreeBSD, and iXsystems - anyone know about them?

by David Glaser

It has been ten years since I built a system and I figure I should do it again to refresh my skills. I took a look at motherboards and processor combinations and I was overwhelmed by the proliferation of choices. What I was wondering if I could get the members of the group to share the basic configuration of systems they have built to give me an idea of what I should look at. I want to build a compute/file server. I do a lot of heavy duty software development using the Eclipse IDE and the Java and C++ Development tools. Also, I need to store a lot of data - mostly images. My house is wired with a 1GB Ethernet so I have good bandwidth to access the server. Thank you for any help. -David

Aug. 9, 2009

Re: [Wlug] PC-BSD, FreeBSD, and iXsystems - anyone know about them?

by E Johnson

Seconding Brian's idea. Build a computer: get a processor and motherboard, RAM, a PSU, a case, hard drive, maybe a vid card. This can be done for 400 or less if your needs aren't terribly big, or if you can reuse a hard drive or something. Then rather than running the various distros as virtual machines, install them in your newly-built computer. Make some extra 10 G partitions on the hard drive, then install a different OS in each partition, keeping your home directory containing your personal files as its own separate partition. Then you can test and compare Linux distros until you find the one that works best for you. There are people in WLUG who can help you through the build process or the installation process, if you should want a consult as you go along. Good luck, Liz J 2009/8/8 Brian Conway <bconway(a)alum.wpi.edu> > 2.) You may want to consider saving some money and putting your own > system together. They're pretty clearly reselling standard parts (the > case is an Antec Sonata III with included 500W power supply, for > instance), and unless you *really* need a Core i7 right now, there are a > lot of bargains now on high end Core2 Quads and DDRII memory that will > last you for a while. > > Brian Conway > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug >

Aug. 9, 2009