November 2009 - WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

Re: [Wlug] HSI Vent Maybe Help?

by Mike Frysinger

On Wednesday 04 November 2009 22:14:02 Clint Moyer wrote: > Why is it relevant which OSes they do or do not support? It's all the > same internet. The only reason any ISP gives you a CD is to install some > half-assed "wizard" app or free crapware. > > I've used Charter for years and its always worked with Linux and > Windows. The one time I had a problem, the tech on the phone found that > he couldn't ping my router. The OS on the other side is a non-factor. while true, the reality is that when you call ISP tech support, the majority of them have a check list and/or script to go through. many of those items include asking about the OS and making sure it's configured properly. just because you're tech savvy doesnt mean the guy you're talking to is, or that the ton of people who call to bitch about the internet being down are either. the ISPs are interested in making money, not really supporting customers. so just because a few customers use "linux" and are having problems, it's no sweat off their backs to not support it. also, your experience doesnt directly correlate to all setups and ISPs. some people have a crappy little linksys/netgear/whatever router connected to the modem, or the modem itself takes care of the entire connection stack and doesnt require host side software (which is often the case with cable users), or the modem is simply there to wiggle lines and requires quite a bit of software install/setup on the machine connected to it. while the OS doesnt matter in the first examples, dsl frequently falls into the latter category in which case the connected OS absolutely matters. if you know what's going on, just lie and say it's windows or an off-the-shelf linksys router. when they ask for random info, do the translation in your head: you want me to do start menu -> run -> ipconfig ? oh, so you want my IP address, np. -mike

Nov. 5, 2009

Re: [Wlug] HSI Vent Maybe Help?

by Mike Frysinger

On Thursday 05 November 2009 14:40:35 Joe Riopel wrote: > I have been using Charter as well, since they have offered cable > broadband access. I did have Verizon DSL before that, for about a > year, and I had a horrible experience. My experience with Verizon had > nothing to do with my operating system, it had to do with the ancient > copper that was in my house. > > I do remember having to use Roaring Peguin's PPoE client with Mandrake > 7.2. It established a connection at boot. I guess if I had a router in > place I wouldn't have had to do that. > http://www.roaringpenguin.com/products/pppoe the westell modems verizon gives out nowadays are basically routers. the days of directly running the PPPoE stack are past. you get a router with unstable firmware that does DHCP/DNS/NAT (and related services) all controllable from a slow web interface. part of the setup is to tell the modem your username & password and it worries about the connection. you can tell it to autoreconnect and thus stay on all the time. while you can bypass all the shitty services by telling the modem to use your own linux router as the DMZ, the actual connection must still be managed in the modem. the other advantage here is that you dont have to worry about the web interface and/or firmware crashing on you when you try to do simple things like reconfigure some network settings. my experience the last few months is that even though ive bypassed all the services (my linux router is the DMZ), the modem sometimes needs to be kicked (i.e. power cycled). this happens about once a month i guess. some of the time, i even need to go in to the web interface and click the "reconnect" link even though the connection is configured as "auto reconnect". -mike

Nov. 5, 2009

Re: [Wlug] HSI Vent Maybe Help?

by Joe Riopel

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Clint Moyer <cdmoyer(a)charter.net> wrote: > I've used Charter for years and its always worked with Linux and > Windows. The one time I had a problem, the tech on the phone found that > he couldn't ping my router. The OS on the other side is a non-factor. I have been using Charter as well, since they have offered cable broadband access. I did have Verizon DSL before that, for about a year, and I had a horrible experience. My experience with Verizon had nothing to do with my operating system, it had to do with the ancient copper that was in my house. I do remember having to use Roaring Peguin's PPoE client with Mandrake 7.2. It established a connection at boot. I guess if I had a router in place I wouldn't have had to do that. http://www.roaringpenguin.com/products/pppoe

Nov. 5, 2009

Re: [Wlug] HSI Vent Maybe Help?

by Keith Wright

> From: Clint Moyer <cdmoyer(a)charter.net> > > Why is it relevant which OSes they do or do not > support? It's all the same internet. The only reason > any ISP gives you a CD is to install some half-assed > "wizard" app or free crapware. Ditto that. "We don't support Linux" really means "We are cheap phone answering droids. We do not understand the technology we sell." I have had Speakeasy DSL for several years and am quite satisfied, although it is a bit expensive. There are two different kinds of problems that you might have, roughly hardware and software. The hardware is all the same wires, but a good ISP can tell you how your modem looks from the other end of the wire. A bad ISP just tries to blame the problem on you, without any attempt to diagnose it. A short description of my hardware problems and how I solved most of them by cutting out some sketchy wiring in my basement and installing a DSL splitter is here: http://www.free-comp-shop.com/DSL.html Don't use the cheapo filters that plug into the wire between the phone jack and the telephones. Get a proper splitter. The other kind of problem is software, by which I do not mean the OS. That is irrelevant. I run a primary name server from my basement, and Speakeasy provides a secondary. To do that, Speakeasy must set up reverse DNS, and pull zone files from my server. This required them to actually do some work to "support" me. I found them to be knowledgeable and responsive. They answer email withing a few hours, even if it is sent at 3:00 am Sunday. There were a few problems coordinating what needed to be done on my end and theirs, but the problems were solved by a few email exchanges in the dead of night. I put some notes I wrote here: http://www.free-comp-shop.com/spk.html If all you want is a web browser, this is probably overkill, but it feels good to actually communicate with a person who knows something. I was a bit worried when they were bought by Best Buy, but it doesn't seem to caused a disaster yet. -- Keith

Nov. 5, 2009

Re: [Wlug] HSI Vent Maybe Help?

by Clint Moyer

Why is it relevant which OSes they do or do not support? It's all the same internet. The only reason any ISP gives you a CD is to install some half-assed "wizard" app or free crapware. I've used Charter for years and its always worked with Linux and Windows. The one time I had a problem, the tech on the phone found that he couldn't ping my router. The OS on the other side is a non-factor. Clint On Wed, 2009-11-04 at 09:17 -0500, Ted Nebus wrote: > Hi! > > I am new to the area, and a long time Linux user (not uber geek, just user). > > I signed up for Verizon HSI. I finally got service yesterday, I rushed > hope plugged in my equipment, and called up to tell them their > "start-up" CD won't work. I wanted to know how to work around that. > > I worked through the menu, and entered non-Windows, Non-Mac OS X > operating system. I was actually excited to find out that I had that > option! When I got through, I explained my problem, and after he asked > me to spell "Debian" I knew I was in trouble. After putting me on > hold, he told me that he had to check his notes, and gave me a number, > and told me to call it, because I have a Mac. I explained to him that > I don't have a Mac, and then he said to call the number. > > I called, and it was the number for Linksys customer support. > > I called back, and fortunately got through to someone who knew that > Linux was an operating system. He said they don't support linux, but > then helped me anyway. Ultimately, they found out my line is broken > and a tech will be coming. > > Why would Verizon give me false hope that they support non-PC and > non-Mac operating system? Is there a more linux-friendly HSI provider > in Worcester? > > Thanks for hearing me out, > > Ted > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Nov. 5, 2009

Re: [Wlug] HSI Vent Maybe Help?

by Steven Greenberg

I guess I was lucky. Verizon did not offer DSL in my area so I went with Charter. Of course, I am not running Linux at home, so I cannot attest to how the service would be. How about borrowing a friend's MS laptop and getting the connection to work? Then switch to using your Linux machine. That will be one way to see where the real problem lies. /Steve -- Steven Greenberg Email: steve(a)ssgreenberg.name 251 Holland Rd. Phone: (774)241-0095 Fiskdale, Massachusetts 01518-1231 Web: http://www.ssgreenberg.name Other Email: s.greenberg(a)ieee.org ssg(a)alum.mit.edu

Nov. 5, 2009

Re: [Wlug] HSI Vent Maybe Help?

by Chuck Anderson

On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 05:13:57PM -0500, Richard Klein wrote: > On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 4:57 PM, David P. Connell <davec99(a)charter.net> wrote: > > I have to say that not one person I know with residential Verizon DSL in > > Worcester has had a successful experience - Windows or otherwise. Of > > course, the people that are happy don't make any noise. Charter with Linux > > is very simple - after all, adding a router is like adding a tiny computer > > that doesn't have anything but the most basic OS on it anyhow. I think > > Verizon's problems are related to the quality of the ancient phone lines > > that run through the trees between the rows of houses in neighborhoods. Now > > that I think of it, my ex-wife's DSL at her office in downtown Main Street > > wasn't too bad (but she didn't need Linux support). I have also heard that > > Speakeasy is a reliable company, but I have no personal experience with > > them. > > FWIW, Speakeasy DSL comes over the same copper as Verizon. Yes, no matter which DSL provider you choose, its all still crappy Verizon copper. Most of the problems I've had with DSL are the crappy wiring inside my apartment complex. The ancient cloth insulated, 3-wire braided telephone cable was picking up interference from an exerior sodium flood light that was misbehaving. Every night at about 6pm, the circuit would bounce every 3 minutes through the whole night until about 8am the next morning. It was only later after the problem had stopped that I found out that the light had been misbehaving and was replaced right at the same time my problems stopped. Technically, I believe the phone company (Verizon) would need to repair/replace that ancient wiring, since it is behind my Network Interface Device (NID, the thing with the Test Jack on it). Speakeasy doesn't use crappy PPPoE/username/password authentication like Verizon does. It is straight IP-over-Ethernet out of the DSL modem, with static addressing, no DHCP. DHCP would even be fine, it is just the hack known as IP-over-PPP-over-Ethernet which sucks.

Nov. 4, 2009

Re: [Wlug] HSI Vent Maybe Help?

by Richard Klein

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 4:57 PM, David P. Connell <davec99(a)charter.net> wrote: > I have to say that not one person I know with residential Verizon DSL in > Worcester has had a successful experience - Windows or otherwise. Of > course, the people that are happy don't make any noise. Charter with Linux > is very simple - after all, adding a router is like adding a tiny computer > that doesn't have anything but the most basic OS on it anyhow. I think > Verizon's problems are related to the quality of the ancient phone lines > that run through the trees between the rows of houses in neighborhoods. Now > that I think of it, my ex-wife's DSL at her office in downtown Main Street > wasn't too bad (but she didn't need Linux support). I have also heard that > Speakeasy is a reliable company, but I have no personal experience with > them. FWIW, Speakeasy DSL comes over the same copper as Verizon. -- Rich Sent from Marlborough, MA, United States

Nov. 4, 2009

Re: [Wlug] HSI Vent Maybe Help?

by David P. Connell

I have to say that not one person I know with residential Verizon DSL in Worcester has had a successful experience - Windows or otherwise. Of course, the people that are happy don't make any noise. Charter with Linux is very simple - after all, adding a router is like adding a tiny computer that doesn't have anything but the most basic OS on it anyhow. I think Verizon's problems are related to the quality of the ancient phone lines that run through the trees between the rows of houses in neighborhoods. Now that I think of it, my ex-wife's DSL at her office in downtown Main Street wasn't too bad (but she didn't need Linux support). I have also heard that Speakeasy is a reliable company, but I have no personal experience with them. Good luck. Chuck Anderson wrote: > On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 09:17:54AM -0500, Ted Nebus wrote: > >> Is there a more linux-friendly HSI provider in Worcester? >> > > Speakeasy. > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > -- David P. Connell davec99(a)charter.net M: 508-450-7902

Nov. 4, 2009

Re: [Wlug] HSI Vent Maybe Help?

by Brian Conway

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009, Gary Hanley wrote: > On Wed, 4 Nov 2009, Ted Nebus wrote: >> I signed up for Verizon HSI. > > So I'm thinking, what is "HSI". Is there a new broadband product that > I haven't heard of? So I went to the Verizon site and as far as I can > tell they've renamed their previous DSL offerings as HSI for High > Speed Internet. > > Is this the case? What was the point of that? Simple marketing, or is > it in fact a different product built on DSL? . > Probably just marketing. DSL has been beat down pretty badly by cable companies recently. Not that I blame them, what place is there for 7 Mbit DSL when I can get 50+ Mbps cable or fibre? Not in Worcester, mind you, but... Brian

Nov. 4, 2009