December 2005 - WLUG - wlug.mailman3.com

Re: [Wlug] suse-9.3 ...32 or 64?

by Andy Stewart

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 HI Greg, Based on your description, I hope you have a lot of memory in that machine! I'm thinking 1GB. The dual library installation was easy - SuSE does it for you with the RPMs. It was largely invisible to me until I compiled some software from source and noticed what was happening. Howard correctly notes that one occasinally needs to tweak the arguments passed to ./configure to get things to compile, and that this is not always documented in an obvious way. Make sure you have a stable motherboard. I've heard that sometimes they can be flaky and that can cause lockups and such, which are quite annoying. ;-) (In fact, I recently swapped out my flaky MSI MB in favor of a Tyan. Target practice, anyone?). I suppose one could install SuSE 32-bit on one part of the hard drive and SuSE 64-bit on the other, but I suspect that would defeat your goal of low maintenance since you'd end up tweaking both. Later, Andy Gregory Avedissian wrote: > Thanks for your answers, guys. > > The person using this computer is doing genealogical research and writing. > She also uses Gimp to create artwork, uses Skype for communications, and > uses Geneweb for the genealogical database. > > She runs KDE with eight virtual desktops, and they're usually all > occupied. Typically, there will be multiple firefox tabs/windows open, > sometimes on maps that require Flash, multiple text editor (gedit) tabs > open, editing several files at once, moving large blocks of text. Gimp is > frequently open with a work in progress (many edits) and Skype is always > running. And there are usually at least two Konqueror windows open - one > for the Geneweb database, and one for file browsing, and sometimes one on > a website. Occasionally, she'll use OOo to deal with a word doc that > someone sends her. With all these projects open, any lockups or having to > shutdown creates a major pain in the ass. > > The user is still fairly new to linux (about a year) and is way more > interested in using it than in tweaking it. If anything has to be compiled > from source, I'd be the one to do it. And I'd definitely need instructions > on installing dual libraries. Stable and low-maintenance are important > factors. I'm thinking it might not be a bad idea to install both, on > different partitions, and if one doesn't work, she can just switch to the > other. > > > > Greg > Andy Stewart wrote: > >>HI Greg et al, >> >>I have a dual Opteron at home running SuSE 9.2 with stock kernel >>upgrades. I am running the 64-bit version of SuSE with the exception of >>Firefox, which is a 32-bit executable. This is so that I can run the >>32-bit version of Macromedia Flash and other plugins. I don't know of >>any 64-bit plugins for Firefox, and 64-bit Firefox, while it exists and >>functions, doesn't like 32-bit plugins, and I wanted the plugins. The >>32-bit plugins work fine with the 32-bit Firefox. I have the Adobe >>plugin (32-bit), Flash, and Java. >> >>I believe that everything else on my machine is 64-bits. SuSE has the >>RPMS for 32-bit as well as 64-bit libraries, both of which I have >>installed (in /usr/lib and /usr/lib64). >> >>I'm not a software developer like Robert (Gutenprint), so my issues >>won't be the same. My use is that of a power user, and for that >>purpose, the 64-bit SuSE suits me well. Greg - what purpose will the >>machine serve? >> >>Let's see - I run KDE 3.4.2 without problems, VMware (with the >>unofficial vmware-any-any patches), Qemu, Thunderbird, Firefox, amaroK, >>xmms, Gimp, seti boinc, cross compile to MIPS, XEmacs, and many others, >>all without problems. As Robert mentions, the problems really arise >>when one starts to deal with proprietary software (try finding a Cisco >>proprietary VPN driver for a dual x86_64 running Linux, for example...). >> >>I think you'll also find yourself compiling from source more often. >>64-bit RPMs aren't as easy to find as 32-bit RPMs. Also, on occasion, >>I've seen a source package have issues compiling on a 64-bit machine, >>but mostly they work fine if you have the necessary prerequisites >>installed. >> >>Later, >> >>Andy >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > > _______________________________________________ > Wlug mailing list > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug > - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDtU7WHl0iXDssISsRAsWpAJ9jcKRgaG2elsl3pr4ffqBJ8ZGXuQCffOzP 9XDbX135T4SMBJ/wDYQ8940= =eOoH -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Dec. 30, 2005

Re: [Wlug] suse-9.3 ...32 or 64?

by Gregory Avedissian

Thanks for your answers, guys. The person using this computer is doing genealogical research and writing. She also uses Gimp to create artwork, uses Skype for communications, and uses Geneweb for the genealogical database. She runs KDE with eight virtual desktops, and they're usually all occupied. Typically, there will be multiple firefox tabs/windows open, sometimes on maps that require Flash, multiple text editor (gedit) tabs open, editing several files at once, moving large blocks of text. Gimp is frequently open with a work in progress (many edits) and Skype is always running. And there are usually at least two Konqueror windows open - one for the Geneweb database, and one for file browsing, and sometimes one on a website. Occasionally, she'll use OOo to deal with a word doc that someone sends her. With all these projects open, any lockups or having to shutdown creates a major pain in the ass. The user is still fairly new to linux (about a year) and is way more interested in using it than in tweaking it. If anything has to be compiled from source, I'd be the one to do it. And I'd definitely need instructions on installing dual libraries. Stable and low-maintenance are important factors. I'm thinking it might not be a bad idea to install both, on different partitions, and if one doesn't work, she can just switch to the other. Greg Andy Stewart wrote: > > HI Greg et al, > > I have a dual Opteron at home running SuSE 9.2 with stock kernel > upgrades. I am running the 64-bit version of SuSE with the exception of > Firefox, which is a 32-bit executable. This is so that I can run the > 32-bit version of Macromedia Flash and other plugins. I don't know of > any 64-bit plugins for Firefox, and 64-bit Firefox, while it exists and > functions, doesn't like 32-bit plugins, and I wanted the plugins. The > 32-bit plugins work fine with the 32-bit Firefox. I have the Adobe > plugin (32-bit), Flash, and Java. > > I believe that everything else on my machine is 64-bits. SuSE has the > RPMS for 32-bit as well as 64-bit libraries, both of which I have > installed (in /usr/lib and /usr/lib64). > > I'm not a software developer like Robert (Gutenprint), so my issues > won't be the same. My use is that of a power user, and for that > purpose, the 64-bit SuSE suits me well. Greg - what purpose will the > machine serve? > > Let's see - I run KDE 3.4.2 without problems, VMware (with the > unofficial vmware-any-any patches), Qemu, Thunderbird, Firefox, amaroK, > xmms, Gimp, seti boinc, cross compile to MIPS, XEmacs, and many others, > all without problems. As Robert mentions, the problems really arise > when one starts to deal with proprietary software (try finding a Cisco > proprietary VPN driver for a dual x86_64 running Linux, for example...). > > I think you'll also find yourself compiling from source more often. > 64-bit RPMs aren't as easy to find as 32-bit RPMs. Also, on occasion, > I've seen a source package have issues compiling on a 64-bit machine, > but mostly they work fine if you have the necessary prerequisites > installed. > > Later, > > Andy > _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Dec. 30, 2005

Re: [Wlug] suse-9.3 ...32 or 64?

by howard＠howardwhite.net

With specific respect to compiling, some apps I regularly compile -- especially Scribus -- require that in the ./configure stage you include --enable-libsuffix=64. In this particular case, it's because the Qt libraries are sensitive to the bit-ness. The BUILDING file should indicate such requirements. HW

Dec. 30, 2005

Re: [Wlug] suse-9.3 ...32 or 64?

by Mike Frysinger

On Friday 30 December 2005 01:54, Andy Stewart wrote: > I don't know of > any 64-bit plugins for Firefox, and 64-bit Firefox, while it exists and > functions, doesn't like 32-bit plugins, and I wanted the plugins. The > 32-bit plugins work fine with the 32-bit Firefox. I have the Adobe > plugin (32-bit), Flash, and Java. macromedia posted a status update for amd64/linux support: http://www.kaourantin.net/2005/12/flash-player-8-for-linux-update.html -mike

Dec. 30, 2005

Re: [Wlug] suse-9.3 ...32 or 64?

by Andy Stewart

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 HI Greg et al, I have a dual Opteron at home running SuSE 9.2 with stock kernel upgrades. I am running the 64-bit version of SuSE with the exception of Firefox, which is a 32-bit executable. This is so that I can run the 32-bit version of Macromedia Flash and other plugins. I don't know of any 64-bit plugins for Firefox, and 64-bit Firefox, while it exists and functions, doesn't like 32-bit plugins, and I wanted the plugins. The 32-bit plugins work fine with the 32-bit Firefox. I have the Adobe plugin (32-bit), Flash, and Java. I believe that everything else on my machine is 64-bits. SuSE has the RPMS for 32-bit as well as 64-bit libraries, both of which I have installed (in /usr/lib and /usr/lib64). I'm not a software developer like Robert (Gutenprint), so my issues won't be the same. My use is that of a power user, and for that purpose, the 64-bit SuSE suits me well. Greg - what purpose will the machine serve? Let's see - I run KDE 3.4.2 without problems, VMware (with the unofficial vmware-any-any patches), Qemu, Thunderbird, Firefox, amaroK, xmms, Gimp, seti boinc, cross compile to MIPS, XEmacs, and many others, all without problems. As Robert mentions, the problems really arise when one starts to deal with proprietary software (try finding a Cisco proprietary VPN driver for a dual x86_64 running Linux, for example...). I think you'll also find yourself compiling from source more often. 64-bit RPMs aren't as easy to find as 32-bit RPMs. Also, on occasion, I've seen a source package have issues compiling on a 64-bit machine, but mostly they work fine if you have the necessary prerequisites installed. Later, Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDtNmYHl0iXDssISsRAhoKAJ9s5V6ZWw8d+bgAREWtp4LXC/DsfACghX/p cMTz/M08kxSjXMxalx8nYzI= =4XAn -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Dec. 30, 2005

Re: [Wlug] suse-9.3 ...32 or 64?

by Robert L Krawitz

Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:13:02 -0500 From: Gregory Avedissian <gma2004(a)verizon.net> I just put together a new machine for a friend. Sempron 3100 on ASUS K8V-MX. It was a rush job, because the computer she was using died. (Same one I wrote about recently that was having lockup problems - pretty sure now that it was the power supply. The last time she tried to turn it on, a big spark came out the back, and that was the end of it. Memory and vid card still test good.) So now that she has a shiny new 64-bit system, I'm wondering whether to go with 64-bit OS or stick to 32. I haven't had much time to research it, but I understand that there are some problems with Macromedia Flash and Java, which she needs. Some of the reading I've done suggests that you can install the 32-bit version of Firefox with the plugins to get around this. Anyone know if it's really as easy as that? Are there any problems with running 32-bit software on a 64-bit OS? Any particular bugginess with 64 that I should know about in advance? She runs KDE desktop and uses Gimp a lot. I hate to say it, but I installed 32-bit SUSE on my Athlon 64 for the following reasons: 1) It was always a pain in the butt syncing up software between my laptop (32-bit) and the 64-bit software. 2) Valgrind didn't work at the time (9.1 timeframe) on 64-bit code, which made it all but useless. Yes, it's possible to forcibly compile things in 32-bit mode, but it was a real pain when most of the development libraries were 64-bit only. 3) Yes, Java, Flash, etc. didn't work. That was generally a fairly minor nuisance, and there are no guarantees with 32-bit software. Right now the Adobe PDF plugin doesn't work on 32-bit SUSE 10.0 because it's compiled with an older version of g++ than what SUSE uses. The usual grief with proprietary software. -- Robert Krawitz <rlk(a)alum.mit.edu> Tall Clubs International -- http://www.tall.org/ or 1-888-IM-TALL-2 Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- mail lpf(a)uunet.uu.net Project lead for Gimp Print -- http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net "Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works." --Eric Crampton

Dec. 30, 2005

suse-9.3 ...32 or 64?

by Gregory Avedissian

I just put together a new machine for a friend. Sempron 3100 on ASUS K8V-MX. It was a rush job, because the computer she was using died. (Same one I wrote about recently that was having lockup problems - pretty sure now that it was the power supply. The last time she tried to turn it on, a big spark came out the back, and that was the end of it. Memory and vid card still test good.) So now that she has a shiny new 64-bit system, I'm wondering whether to go with 64-bit OS or stick to 32. I haven't had much time to research it, but I understand that there are some problems with Macromedia Flash and Java, which she needs. Some of the reading I've done suggests that you can install the 32-bit version of Firefox with the plugins to get around this. Anyone know if it's really as easy as that? Are there any problems with running 32-bit software on a 64-bit OS? Any particular bugginess with 64 that I should know about in advance? She runs KDE desktop and uses Gimp a lot. Oh, one other glitch I ran into - I tried to do the network install, but the boot cd doesn't have the kernel modules for the LAN chip. I was instructed to go to the install cd and make a "modules 3" floppy. There is no modules 3 image on the cd or on the ftp site, but there are images for "bootdisk1, bootdisk2, etc." Do I have to make the whole set and install from floppy, or is there a way to find out which disk has the right module and just use that with the cd? Or could I just put an older card in it for the install and then change the network card setup afterward? I'm thinking the latter would be easier than finding five or six blank floppy disks to use. Thanks, Greg

Dec. 30, 2005

Re: [Wlug] FC2 and FC3 to FC4 ... ?

by Chuck Anderson

On Thu, Dec 29, 2005 at 05:50:18PM -0500, Theo Van Dinter wrote: > around I was thinking of either using yum or burning some CDs and doing > the upgrade method (which the Fedora guys recommended to me). > > Anyone have suggestions about what method works best? Any gotchas I should > worry about, etc? Using anacaconda is the official, supported method of upgrading a Fedora system. The reason is simple: certain tasks cannot be done on the live running system, but instead must be done from outside the normal system environment (e.g. filesystem/lvm conversion, incompatible kernel<->userspace changes like NPTL, new kernel features like SELinux support, rpm scriptlets). I've had success upgrading to FC4 from as far back as Red Hat Linux 7.3. That being said, yum sometimes works well if you take into account some of the manual tasks you may need to do before and after, e.g. sometimes you must remove several older kernel versions manually before attempting the yum update. The success of this method deteriorates increasingly as the version difference of the before and after OSes increases. I have not used this method extensively except between FC test and development (rawhide) releases. What I have been doing recently for remote upgrades is using the grub installed on the existing OS to boot the anaconda installer environment with the proper command line arguments to start a VNC-based network install. You then reboot the system, wait a few moments, and connect to it via VNC to finish the graphical install manually. Of course, you could also use kickstart to completely automate this with no user interaction required. cd /boot wget -O vmlinuz-fc4 http://<fc-mirror>/pub/fedora/linux/core/4/i386/os/isolinux/vmlinuz wget -O initrd-fc4.img http://<fc-mirror>/pub/fedora/linux/core/4/i386/os/isolinux/initrd edit /etc/grub.conf, adding this to the beginning: title Fedora Core 4 installer root (hd0,0) kernel /vmlinuz-fc4 headless ip=dhcp ksdevice=eth0 method=http://<fc-mirror>/pub/fedora/linux/core/4/i386/os lang=en_US keymap=us vnc vncpassword=<password> initrd /initrd-fc4.img Notes: 1. If you have multiple NICs, eth0 may not be the one you think it will be once you reboot into the installer. Therefore, it is highly recommended to specify the desired install NIC using its MAC address: ksdevice=aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:Ff 2. Don't forget to set the default boot entry in grub to the installer entry, e.g. default=0 Reboot: shutdown -r now vncviewer <remote-ip>:0 IMPORTANT: Be sure to select "Create a new bootloader configuration". I found out the hard way that "Update existing bootloader configuration" will leave you with no way to remotely boot into the new OS after the upgrade is completed, because grub will default to booting the installer over and over again, and remotely re-upgrading and selecting "Create a new bootloader configuration" afterwards will not re-write the bootloader because it only does that if a new kernel gets installed, which it won't since it was already installed the first time you upgraded... Finally, SELinux doesn't get enabled automatically on upgrades, but you can easily enable it manually afterwards: yum install setools selinux-policy-targeted touch /.autorelabel reboot More info: http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/ http://www.arenatechniques.com/kb/index.php/Anaconda http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/selinux-faq/

Dec. 30, 2005

Re: [Wlug] Busybox / mips / embedded Linux question

by Andy Stewart

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Mike Frysinger wrote: > On Thursday 29 December 2005 17:42, Andy Stewart wrote: > >>Within busybox, command substitution and pipes don't work on this MIPS >>box (but they do work on my x86_64). > > > are you using uClibc 0.9.28 or the uClibc snapshot ? busybox release or > busybox snapshot ? is your cpu big endian mips ? i can gen a buildroot over > here and test it on a little endian mips box pretty quickly, but i'll have to > fiddle to boot my big endian mips ... Hi Mike, Here's what I'm using: uClibc-0.9.28 busybox-1.01 target cpu is little endian (mipsel) Linux kernel is 2.4.30 (yes, I hacked in the headers...) > > also, you could have just posted this to the busybox mailing list, we dont > mind these sort of things ;) > -mike > I considered that, especially when I saw a "Mike Frysinger" over there, and wondered if there was more than one of you on the Internet. :-) Thanks! Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA, USA http://www.wlug.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDtH0/Hl0iXDssISsRAr0iAKCIAgChF0hmBtJacLyW0yp1mp/WGQCeLgkh hyrJzp8NzhaDf5QV2AUYhPc= =OQGz -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Dec. 30, 2005

Re: [Wlug] Busybox / mips / embedded Linux question

by Mike Frysinger

On Thursday 29 December 2005 17:42, Andy Stewart wrote: > Within busybox, command substitution and pipes don't work on this MIPS > box (but they do work on my x86_64). are you using uClibc 0.9.28 or the uClibc snapshot ? busybox release or busybox snapshot ? is your cpu big endian mips ? i can gen a buildroot over here and test it on a little endian mips box pretty quickly, but i'll have to fiddle to boot my big endian mips ... also, you could have just posted this to the busybox mailing list, we dont mind these sort of things ;) -mike

Dec. 29, 2005