I just bought a Pi5.. we'll see if I actually get it.
They say estimated delivery of Jan 9th - Jan 11th.. So, who knows.. I bought the 4GB model, so it should be functional as a desktop, my plan is to experiment with it as a daily drivers. Beyond that, what do people think would be a good benchmark to experiment with? Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".
On Wed, Jan 3, 2024, 1:19 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote:
They say estimated delivery of Jan 9th - Jan 11th.. So, who knows.. I bought the 4GB model, so it should be functional as a desktop, my plan is to experiment with it as a daily drivers.
Beyond that, what do people think would be a good benchmark to experiment with?
Are you planning on leveraging the NVMe support? I'm really curious how data performance is. -- Greg
Tim, Here is a Tom's Hardware report on several "benchmarks" between a 4GB and 8GB Rpi 5 https://www.tomshardware.com/raspberry-pi/raspberry-pi-5-4gb-versus-8gb Their overall conclusion was that for most uses the RPi 5 with 4GB will be fine. Probably if you keep 100 tabs open on your browser YMMV. I have rendered and received the PCIe daughter card that allows you to attach a 1TB nVMe M.2 memory card, supposedly with 5000MB/sec read and write (although I do not expect that I will get that through the PCIe on the Pi 5. I have to have some time to put everything together, but I should be doing that in the next couple of weeks. You can probably find others who have done it already with some decent search queries on the Internet. Here is one I found from Tom's Hardware: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXWu4SUsaY8 I will tell you that when I switched from a SATA 3 SSD to a nVMe M.2 card on my laptop the change was "breathtaking" on I/O style of loads. I will never go back. md On Wed, Jan 3, 2024 at 1:19 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote:
They say estimated delivery of Jan 9th - Jan 11th.. So, who knows.. I bought the 4GB model, so it should be functional as a desktop, my plan is to experiment with it as a daily drivers.
Beyond that, what do people think would be a good benchmark to experiment with?
Tim.
-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers". _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/PZXLTB...
So after buying a 4gb model.. Logan found that Adafruit is selling the 8GB version for the same price.. so I'm getting the 8GB version. I hear you with the NVME I/O. NVME is really the only way I fly when it comes to doing stuff that needs I/O. Greg, I'll need to see what an NVME adapter costs. But honestly, to really use a pi as a desktop, you need real storage. Tim. On Wed, Jan 3, 2024 at 3:16 PM Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall@gmail.com> wrote:
Tim,
Here is a Tom's Hardware report on several "benchmarks" between a 4GB and 8GB Rpi 5
https://www.tomshardware.com/raspberry-pi/raspberry-pi-5-4gb-versus-8gb
Their overall conclusion was that for most uses the RPi 5 with 4GB will be fine. Probably if you keep 100 tabs open on your browser YMMV.
I have rendered and received the PCIe daughter card that allows you to attach a 1TB nVMe M.2 memory card, supposedly with 5000MB/sec read and write (although I do not expect that I will get that through the PCIe on the Pi 5. I have to have some time to put everything together, but I should be doing that in the next couple of weeks. You can probably find others who have done it already with some decent search queries on the Internet. Here is one I found from Tom's Hardware:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXWu4SUsaY8
I will tell you that when I switched from a SATA 3 SSD to a nVMe M.2 card on my laptop the change was "breathtaking" on I/O style of loads. I will never go back.
md
On Wed, Jan 3, 2024 at 1:19 PM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote:
They say estimated delivery of Jan 9th - Jan 11th.. So, who knows.. I bought the 4GB model, so it should be functional as a desktop, my plan is to experiment with it as a daily drivers.
Beyond that, what do people think would be a good benchmark to experiment with?
Tim.
-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers". _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/PZXLTB...
-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".
"Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> writes:
So after buying a 4gb model.. Logan found that Adafruit is selling the 8GB version for the same price.. so I'm getting the 8GB version.
Tempting for sure, but then I need to add a case, power supply, etc. Now for my rant, I've got a pair of OrangePi 3LTS boards and I'm disappointed in them honestly. They work well, but one of them (the one I put remote to me) just up and died. It doesn't power up and god knows what happened. It was in a building where nothing else died, so I don't think it was lightning or anything like that. Maybe just a crappy USB-C powersupply? Bad batch of boards? Dunno... just a bit annoyed, especially since the other one I kept at home for testing of upgrades before I pushed them to the remote one just keeps on working. So I'm really thinking I should just pick up a cheap old SFF PC and put linux on it and just leave that at the remote site where it *might* be more durable to whatever is killing my SBCs I deply there. Oh yeah, I had a raspberryPi in the same location and it too died. Maybe it's just too damn warm in that network closet. But there's really only just a couple of switches and a wireless AP in there, not much else in terms of power. Gah!
John, You did not say what version of the RPi you had in the closet, but many of the early ones had an ambient operating temperature of 40 degrees C (104 F), which is really not that hot. As you probably know, beginning with the RPi 4th they started talking about needing fans as well as heat sinks. If you were doing any heavy work on the Pi and did not have it set up to throttle back if it got too warm, it could have easily fried itself. For what it is worth, here are some notes on the RPi 5 cooling. Note that not of it talks about real operating temperatures, just when the fans turn on and by how much. What if the surrounding temperature is very hot and the heat sing and fan can not cool the SoC enough? https://www.raspberrypi.com/documentation/computers/raspberry-pi-5.html#cool... Some manufacturers of SBCs offer an industrial or even a military version of their boards which can have higher ambient temperatures? On the project I am working on in Brazil we test the units to work with just a heat sink, not a fan, of 70 degrees C (158 F) On another note, the first RPis also did not do very good with ESD (Electrostatic Discharge). We had 12 Rpis die in the lab while we were working with them, versus none of our boards where we had put in some ESD protection. Finally, many of the first RPis did NOT have very good power management. Depending on how much current was pulled off the peripherals the CPU could just be starved or too much power pulled through the board. You may know or have thought about all of these things. md On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 7:00 PM John Stoffel <john@stoffel.org> wrote:
"Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> writes:
So after buying a 4gb model.. Logan found that Adafruit is selling the 8GB version for the same price.. so I'm getting the 8GB version.
Tempting for sure, but then I need to add a case, power supply, etc.
Now for my rant, I've got a pair of OrangePi 3LTS boards and I'm disappointed in them honestly. They work well, but one of them (the one I put remote to me) just up and died. It doesn't power up and god knows what happened. It was in a building where nothing else died, so I don't think it was lightning or anything like that. Maybe just a crappy USB-C powersupply? Bad batch of boards?
Dunno... just a bit annoyed, especially since the other one I kept at home for testing of upgrades before I pushed them to the remote one just keeps on working.
So I'm really thinking I should just pick up a cheap old SFF PC and put linux on it and just leave that at the remote site where it *might* be more durable to whatever is killing my SBCs I deply there.
Oh yeah, I had a raspberryPi in the same location and it too died. Maybe it's just too damn warm in that network closet. But there's really only just a couple of switches and a wireless AP in there, not much else in terms of power.
Gah!
You did not say what version of the RPi you had in the closet, but many of the early ones had an ambient operating temperature of 40 degrees C (104 F), which is really not that hot. As you probably know, beginning with the RPi 4th they started talking about needing fans as well as heat sinks. If you were doing any heavy work on the Pi and did not have it set up to throttle back if it got too warm, it could have easily fried itself.
Yeah, I forget exactly which version I had, probably a 1gb v2 or v3. I've had several die on me for various reasons. Mostly I think it was the power regulator chip being a bit intolerant. But I've also lost a BeagleBone Black (nice SBC in general) but have a Model 3 B (made by Sony) running in my garage doing PiAware data collection, and it gets hot in the summer there. So I really think it was a power blip which killed my unit.
For what it is worth, here are some notes on the RPi 5 cooling. Note that not of it talks about real operating temperatures, just when the fans turn on and by how much. What if the surrounding temperature is very hot and the heat sing and fan can not cool the SoC enough?
https://www.raspberrypi.com/documentation/computers/raspberry-pi-5.html#cool...
Some manufacturers of SBCs offer an industrial or even a military version of their boards which can have higher ambient temperatures?
I think I really need one with cleaner/better power conditioning.
On the project I am working on in Brazil we test the units to work with just a heat sink, not a fan, of 70 degrees C (158 F)
On another note, the first RPis also did not do very good with ESD (Electrostatic Discharge). We had 12 Rpis die in the lab while we were working with them, versus none of our boards where we had put in some ESD protection.
Yup, this is what I think killed my units.
Finally, many of the first RPis did NOT have very good power management. Depending on how much current was pulled off the peripherals the CPU could just be starved or too much power pulled through the board.
I'm not doing anything in my remote site units, they're jsut linux nodes I can login to and then run commands on to diagnose network issues. Starting to think about getting an old PCEnginge's board and using that. They're really solid, low power and last forever. I've got two of them here at home, one running my firewall, the other running TP-Link Omada software for my TP-LINK WAPs and Switches unified management.
You may know or have thought about all of these things.
md
On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 7:00 PM John Stoffel <john@stoffel.org> wrote:
"Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> writes:
So after buying a 4gb model.. Logan found that Adafruit is selling the 8GB version for the same price.. so I'm getting the 8GB version.
Tempting for sure, but then I need to add a case, power supply, etc.
Now for my rant, I've got a pair of OrangePi 3LTS boards and I'm disappointed in them honestly. They work well, but one of them (the one I put remote to me) just up and died. It doesn't power up and god knows what happened. It was in a building where nothing else died, so I don't think it was lightning or anything like that. Maybe just a crappy USB-C powersupply? Bad batch of boards?
Dunno... just a bit annoyed, especially since the other one I kept at home for testing of upgrades before I pushed them to the remote one just keeps on working.
So I'm really thinking I should just pick up a cheap old SFF PC and put linux on it and just leave that at the remote site where it *might* be more durable to whatever is killing my SBCs I deply there.
Oh yeah, I had a raspberryPi in the same location and it too died. Maybe it's just too damn warm in that network closet. But there's really only just a couple of switches and a wireless AP in there, not much else in terms of power.
Gah! _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/MYLSAA...
I *actually* got a Pi5 in the mail today! Well.. I needed something to play with during the storm!! Tim. On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 10:22 AM John Stoffel <john@stoffel.org> wrote:
You did not say what version of the RPi you had in the closet, but many of the early ones had an ambient operating temperature of 40 degrees C (104 F), which is really not that hot. As you probably know, beginning with the RPi 4th they started talking about needing fans as well as heat sinks. If you were doing any heavy work on the Pi and did not have it set up to throttle back if it got too warm, it could have easily fried itself.
Yeah, I forget exactly which version I had, probably a 1gb v2 or v3. I've had several die on me for various reasons. Mostly I think it was the power regulator chip being a bit intolerant.
But I've also lost a BeagleBone Black (nice SBC in general) but have a Model 3 B (made by Sony) running in my garage doing PiAware data collection, and it gets hot in the summer there.
So I really think it was a power blip which killed my unit.
For what it is worth, here are some notes on the RPi 5 cooling. Note that not of it talks about real operating temperatures, just when the fans turn on and by how much. What if the surrounding temperature is very hot and the heat sing and fan can not cool the SoC enough?
https://www.raspberrypi.com/documentation/computers/raspberry-pi-5.html#cool...
Some manufacturers of SBCs offer an industrial or even a military version of their boards which can have higher ambient temperatures?
I think I really need one with cleaner/better power conditioning.
On the project I am working on in Brazil we test the units to work with just a heat sink, not a fan, of 70 degrees C (158 F)
On another note, the first RPis also did not do very good with ESD (Electrostatic Discharge). We had 12 Rpis die in the lab while we were working with them, versus none of our boards where we had put in some ESD protection.
Yup, this is what I think killed my units.
Finally, many of the first RPis did NOT have very good power management. Depending on how much current was pulled off the peripherals the CPU could just be starved or too much power pulled through the board.
I'm not doing anything in my remote site units, they're jsut linux nodes I can login to and then run commands on to diagnose network issues.
Starting to think about getting an old PCEnginge's board and using that. They're really solid, low power and last forever. I've got two of them here at home, one running my firewall, the other running TP-Link Omada software for my TP-LINK WAPs and Switches unified management.
You may know or have thought about all of these things.
md
On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 7:00 PM John Stoffel <john@stoffel.org> wrote:
> "Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> writes:
So after buying a 4gb model.. Logan found that Adafruit is selling the 8GB version for the same price.. so I'm getting the 8GB version.
Tempting for sure, but then I need to add a case, power supply, etc.
Now for my rant, I've got a pair of OrangePi 3LTS boards and I'm disappointed in them honestly. They work well, but one of them (the one I put remote to me) just up and died. It doesn't power up and
god
knows what happened. It was in a building where nothing else died,
so
I don't think it was lightning or anything like that. Maybe just a crappy USB-C powersupply? Bad batch of boards?
Dunno... just a bit annoyed, especially since the other one I kept at home for testing of upgrades before I pushed them to the remote one just keeps on working.
So I'm really thinking I should just pick up a cheap old SFF PC and put linux on it and just leave that at the remote site where it *might* be more durable to whatever is killing my SBCs I deply there.
Oh yeah, I had a raspberryPi in the same location and it too died. Maybe it's just too damn warm in that network closet. But there's really only just a couple of switches and a wireless AP in there, not much else in terms of power.
Gah! _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings:
https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/
Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/MYLSAA...
-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".
I am hoping that mine arrives tomorrow, but I may have to dig it out of the snow. md On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 8:11 PM Tim Keller <turbofx@gmail.com> wrote:
I *actually* got a Pi5 in the mail today! Well.. I needed something to play with during the storm!!
Tim.
On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 10:22 AM John Stoffel <john@stoffel.org> wrote:
You did not say what version of the RPi you had in the closet, but many of the early ones had an ambient operating temperature of 40 degrees C (104 F), which is really not that hot. As you probably know, beginning with the RPi 4th they started talking about needing fans as well as heat sinks. If you were doing any heavy work on the Pi and did not have it set up to throttle back if it got too warm, it could have easily fried itself.
Yeah, I forget exactly which version I had, probably a 1gb v2 or v3. I've had several die on me for various reasons. Mostly I think it was the power regulator chip being a bit intolerant.
But I've also lost a BeagleBone Black (nice SBC in general) but have a Model 3 B (made by Sony) running in my garage doing PiAware data collection, and it gets hot in the summer there.
So I really think it was a power blip which killed my unit.
For what it is worth, here are some notes on the RPi 5 cooling. Note that not of it talks about real operating temperatures, just when the fans turn on and by how much. What if the surrounding temperature is very hot and the heat sing and fan can not cool the SoC enough?
https://www.raspberrypi.com/documentation/computers/raspberry-pi-5.html#cool...
Some manufacturers of SBCs offer an industrial or even a military version of their boards which can have higher ambient temperatures?
I think I really need one with cleaner/better power conditioning.
On the project I am working on in Brazil we test the units to work with just a heat sink, not a fan, of 70 degrees C (158 F)
On another note, the first RPis also did not do very good with ESD (Electrostatic Discharge). We had 12 Rpis die in the lab while we were working with them, versus none of our boards where we had put in some ESD protection.
Yup, this is what I think killed my units.
Finally, many of the first RPis did NOT have very good power management. Depending on how much current was pulled off the peripherals the CPU could just be starved or too much power pulled through the board.
I'm not doing anything in my remote site units, they're jsut linux nodes I can login to and then run commands on to diagnose network issues.
Starting to think about getting an old PCEnginge's board and using that. They're really solid, low power and last forever. I've got two of them here at home, one running my firewall, the other running TP-Link Omada software for my TP-LINK WAPs and Switches unified management.
You may know or have thought about all of these things.
md
On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 7:00 PM John Stoffel <john@stoffel.org> wrote:
>> "Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> writes:
So after buying a 4gb model.. Logan found that Adafruit is selling the 8GB version for the same price.. so I'm getting the 8GB version.
Tempting for sure, but then I need to add a case, power supply,
etc.
Now for my rant, I've got a pair of OrangePi 3LTS boards and I'm disappointed in them honestly. They work well, but one of them (the one I put remote to me) just up and died. It doesn't power up and
god
knows what happened. It was in a building where nothing else died,
so
I don't think it was lightning or anything like that. Maybe just a crappy USB-C powersupply? Bad batch of boards?
Dunno... just a bit annoyed, especially since the other one I kept
at
home for testing of upgrades before I pushed them to the remote one just keeps on working.
So I'm really thinking I should just pick up a cheap old SFF PC and put linux on it and just leave that at the remote site where it *might* be more durable to whatever is killing my SBCs I deply
there.
Oh yeah, I had a raspberryPi in the same location and it too died. Maybe it's just too damn warm in that network closet. But there's really only just a couple of switches and a wireless AP in there,
not
much else in terms of power.
Gah! _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings:
https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/
Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/MYLSAA...
-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".
Ahhhh, through the magic of the Internet the estimate of delivery that WAS Saturday before 2100 EST has now changed to Monday. (sigh) md On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 8:25 PM Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall@gmail.com> wrote:
I am hoping that mine arrives tomorrow, but I may have to dig it out of the snow.
md
On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 8:11 PM Tim Keller <turbofx@gmail.com> wrote:
I *actually* got a Pi5 in the mail today! Well.. I needed something to play with during the storm!!
Tim.
On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 10:22 AM John Stoffel <john@stoffel.org> wrote:
You did not say what version of the RPi you had in the closet, but many of the early ones had an ambient operating temperature of 40 degrees C (104 F), which is really not that hot. As you probably know, beginning with the RPi 4th they started talking about needing fans as well as heat sinks. If you were doing any heavy work on the Pi and did not have it set up to throttle back if it got too warm, it could have easily fried itself.
Yeah, I forget exactly which version I had, probably a 1gb v2 or v3. I've had several die on me for various reasons. Mostly I think it was the power regulator chip being a bit intolerant.
But I've also lost a BeagleBone Black (nice SBC in general) but have a Model 3 B (made by Sony) running in my garage doing PiAware data collection, and it gets hot in the summer there.
So I really think it was a power blip which killed my unit.
For what it is worth, here are some notes on the RPi 5 cooling. Note that not of it talks about real operating temperatures, just when the fans turn on and by how much. What if the surrounding temperature is very hot and the heat sing and fan can not cool the SoC enough?
https://www.raspberrypi.com/documentation/computers/raspberry-pi-5.html#cool...
Some manufacturers of SBCs offer an industrial or even a military version of their boards which can have higher ambient temperatures?
I think I really need one with cleaner/better power conditioning.
On the project I am working on in Brazil we test the units to work with just a heat sink, not a fan, of 70 degrees C (158 F)
On another note, the first RPis also did not do very good with ESD (Electrostatic Discharge). We had 12 Rpis die in the lab while we were working with them, versus none of our boards where we had put in some ESD protection.
Yup, this is what I think killed my units.
Finally, many of the first RPis did NOT have very good power management. Depending on how much current was pulled off the peripherals the CPU could just be starved or too much power pulled through the board.
I'm not doing anything in my remote site units, they're jsut linux nodes I can login to and then run commands on to diagnose network issues.
Starting to think about getting an old PCEnginge's board and using that. They're really solid, low power and last forever. I've got two of them here at home, one running my firewall, the other running TP-Link Omada software for my TP-LINK WAPs and Switches unified management.
You may know or have thought about all of these things.
md
On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 7:00 PM John Stoffel <john@stoffel.org> wrote:
>>> "Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> writes:
So after buying a 4gb model.. Logan found that Adafruit is selling the 8GB version for the same price.. so I'm getting the 8GB version.
Tempting for sure, but then I need to add a case, power supply,
etc.
Now for my rant, I've got a pair of OrangePi 3LTS boards and I'm disappointed in them honestly. They work well, but one of them
(the
one I put remote to me) just up and died. It doesn't power up and
god
knows what happened. It was in a building where nothing else
died, so
I don't think it was lightning or anything like that. Maybe just a crappy USB-C powersupply? Bad batch of boards?
Dunno... just a bit annoyed, especially since the other one I kept
at
home for testing of upgrades before I pushed them to the remote one just keeps on working.
So I'm really thinking I should just pick up a cheap old SFF PC and put linux on it and just leave that at the remote site where it *might* be more durable to whatever is killing my SBCs I deply
there.
Oh yeah, I had a raspberryPi in the same location and it too died. Maybe it's just too damn warm in that network closet. But there's really only just a couple of switches and a wireless AP in there,
not
much else in terms of power.
Gah! _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings:
https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/
Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/MYLSAA...
-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".
Here's an interesting article on using the Pi5 as a daily desktop. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/01/what-i-learned-from-using-a-raspberr...
I did get my pi5 in the mail! I went off and printed a case for it! I'm going to head over to Microcenter (possibly for lunch!) and buy a cooler for it since it appears trying to actually do anything with it will kill it in any real sense. Tim. On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 11:54 AM John Stoffel <john@stoffel.org> wrote:
Here's an interesting article on using the Pi5 as a daily desktop.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/01/what-i-learned-from-using-a-raspberr...
-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".
"since it appears trying to actually do anything with it will kill it in any real sense." That depends on the processor, existence or size of heat sink, heat transfer connectivity between SoC and heat sink, ambient temperature and OS settings. Most modern SoCs have a temperature setting inside that the OS can read. If the processor gets too hot the CPU can throttle back the clock and reduce the heat produced. It could also schedule fewer or less powerful cores. Of course this slows down your computer. The other main consideration is ambient temperature. If the air around the system is really warm the heat sink can only exchange so much heat. The fan helps with this, but in the end you might still have the CPU throttled. This explains why some over locked machines used by gamers even use liquid cooling to carry off the heat from the circuitry. I have not looked into the RPi 5 enough to know the extent of the thermal protection it enjoys, but I would not discourage you from buying the fan to get maximum performance on benchmarks. There was a good "Toms Hardware" video on this with regards to the RPi 5 when it first came out. On Tue, Jan 9, 2024, 12:12 Tim Keller <turbofx@gmail.com> wrote:
I did get my pi5 in the mail! I went off and printed a case for it! I'm going to head over to Microcenter (possibly for lunch!) and buy a cooler for it since it appears trying to actually do anything with it will kill it in any real sense.
Tim.
On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 11:54 AM John Stoffel <john@stoffel.org> wrote:
Here's an interesting article on using the Pi5 as a daily desktop.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/01/what-i-learned-from-using-a-raspberr...
-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".
I guess I should have been a bit clearer. I've used lots of pi's and I've had them throttle because of thermal issues. I figure if I want to use this pi5 as a desktop on my home desktop, I can't have it constantly doing the heat up / cool down game.. plus that's not good for an SOC in any case. It's yet to be seen if that little fan is going to be obnoxious.. I realize that this isn't a gaming machine. What I really want is a super low power desktop I can tape to the back of my monitor and use to surf the web, write crappy scifi and maybe watch a video. As a stretch goal if it's capable of letting me use OnShape, I'll be doubly surprised, but I suspect that's a cpu bridge too far.. Though I've managed to use OnShape on my phone.. so who knows.. On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 12:26 PM Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall@gmail.com> wrote:
"since it appears trying to actually do anything with it will kill it in any real sense."
That depends on the processor, existence or size of heat sink, heat transfer connectivity between SoC and heat sink, ambient temperature and OS settings.
Most modern SoCs have a temperature setting inside that the OS can read. If the processor gets too hot the CPU can throttle back the clock and reduce the heat produced. It could also schedule fewer or less powerful cores. Of course this slows down your computer.
The other main consideration is ambient temperature. If the air around the system is really warm the heat sink can only exchange so much heat. The fan helps with this, but in the end you might still have the CPU throttled.
This explains why some over locked machines used by gamers even use liquid cooling to carry off the heat from the circuitry.
I have not looked into the RPi 5 enough to know the extent of the thermal protection it enjoys, but I would not discourage you from buying the fan to get maximum performance on benchmarks.
There was a good "Toms Hardware" video on this with regards to the RPi 5 when it first came out.
On Tue, Jan 9, 2024, 12:12 Tim Keller <turbofx@gmail.com> wrote:
I did get my pi5 in the mail! I went off and printed a case for it! I'm going to head over to Microcenter (possibly for lunch!) and buy a cooler for it since it appears trying to actually do anything with it will kill it in any real sense.
Tim.
On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 11:54 AM John Stoffel <john@stoffel.org> wrote:
Here's an interesting article on using the Pi5 as a daily desktop.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/01/what-i-learned-from-using-a-raspberr...
-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".
-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".
Tim, My email to you was not to belittle your efforts in any way, but just to put more illumination on the thermal processes. Putting an RPi, even with a fan, in a hot closet may not solve the problem.
I've used lots of pi's and I've had them throttle because of thermal issues.
Both the Pis and Linux have had a lot of improvement over the years to handle thermal issues. For example, when you only have one core, turning off that core to let the SoC cool down has some issues. :-) Most SoCs also have some thermal issues because the CPU and the GPU tend to be on the same SoC and therefore generate heat between the two. In a server system that has reduced or no graphics needs the heat sink can carry a lot more of the CPU's heat to the outside air. If you are considering doing AI work, rather than trying to use the GPU for that you could consider an accelerator (like we have discussed before) to spread that to another board.
plus that's not good for an SOC in any case
A lot of this depends on the engineering of the SOC. There are a lot of issues other than just thermal that limit CPU clock speed and therefore limit the heat generated by the CPU. I cannot imagine a CPU that was not designed to run at maximum clock speed for all the cores from a thermal perspective, and of course turning it off makes it cool down again. If you tried to go into overclocking, you might have issues there, but then you have other issues too. From what I have read the RPi definitely has some applications as a "desktop replacement", particularly in some of the areas where I operate. Solar panels and batteries could easily supply the power for running an RPi 5 with a reasonably sized LCD panel, important in various areas of the Amazon. In Uruguay there was one remote village where the five "One Laptop Per Child" (OLPC) units produced the only electric light at night, charged by solar panels in the day. My Lenovo W510 laptop (with a 130 Watt power supply) would have drained their batteries in an hour at most. Another thing to consider is using the RPi as a "thin client", with the main computation is done remotely in "the cloud" and the Rpi is just used for graphical rendering and almost real-time capture of data for deep processing remotely. Have a good time with your experiments. Most importantly, have fun. md On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 12:56 PM Tim Keller <turbofx@gmail.com> wrote:
I guess I should have been a bit clearer. I've used lots of pi's and I've had them throttle because of thermal issues. I figure if I want to use this pi5 as a desktop on my home desktop, I can't have it constantly doing the heat up / cool down game.. plus that's not good for an SOC in any case. It's yet to be seen if that little fan is going to be obnoxious..
I realize that this isn't a gaming machine. What I really want is a super low power desktop I can tape to the back of my monitor and use to surf the web, write crappy scifi and maybe watch a video. As a stretch goal if it's capable of letting me use OnShape, I'll be doubly surprised, but I suspect that's a cpu bridge too far.. Though I've managed to use OnShape on my phone.. so who knows..
On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 12:26 PM Jon "maddog" Hall < jon.maddog.hall@gmail.com> wrote:
"since it appears trying to actually do anything with it will kill it in any real sense."
That depends on the processor, existence or size of heat sink, heat transfer connectivity between SoC and heat sink, ambient temperature and OS settings.
Most modern SoCs have a temperature setting inside that the OS can read. If the processor gets too hot the CPU can throttle back the clock and reduce the heat produced. It could also schedule fewer or less powerful cores. Of course this slows down your computer.
The other main consideration is ambient temperature. If the air around the system is really warm the heat sink can only exchange so much heat. The fan helps with this, but in the end you might still have the CPU throttled.
This explains why some over locked machines used by gamers even use liquid cooling to carry off the heat from the circuitry.
I have not looked into the RPi 5 enough to know the extent of the thermal protection it enjoys, but I would not discourage you from buying the fan to get maximum performance on benchmarks.
There was a good "Toms Hardware" video on this with regards to the RPi 5 when it first came out.
On Tue, Jan 9, 2024, 12:12 Tim Keller <turbofx@gmail.com> wrote:
I did get my pi5 in the mail! I went off and printed a case for it! I'm going to head over to Microcenter (possibly for lunch!) and buy a cooler for it since it appears trying to actually do anything with it will kill it in any real sense.
Tim.
On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 11:54 AM John Stoffel <john@stoffel.org> wrote:
Here's an interesting article on using the Pi5 as a daily desktop.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/01/what-i-learned-from-using-a-raspberr...
-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".
-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".
So for those looking for other SBC options, think one looks tempting: https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-m1s-with-8gbyte-ram/ assuming it's actually reliable and tolerant of crap. I might try getting one of these and putting Ubuntu 22.x LTS on there. That at least implies it will be better supported than my OrangePi3 LTS boards (bringing one tonight!) which has been running Armbian, but which are frankly a crappy choice since I find that Armbian isn't such a great distro. Or more likely the vendor is just shipping meh parts. I've got one board working, and one dead one that won't even power up. Sigh... time to take a look at the board more closely and see if there's anything I can do. but mostly I hate throwing good money after bad.
Or you could look here: http://customdesktopsolutions.mywebcommunity.org/index.php/linux-open-source... On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 04:06:14 PM EST, John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote: So for those looking for other SBC options, think one looks tempting: https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-m1s-with-8gbyte-ram/ assuming it's actually reliable and tolerant of crap. I might try getting one of these and putting Ubuntu 22.x LTS on there. That at least implies it will be better supported than my OrangePi3 LTS boards (bringing one tonight!) which has been running Armbian, but which are frankly a crappy choice since I find that Armbian isn't such a great distro. Or more likely the vendor is just shipping meh parts. I've got one board working, and one dead one that won't even power up. Sigh... time to take a look at the board more closely and see if there's anything I can do. but mostly I hate throwing good money after bad. _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/HPHI3S...
"Aljerin" == Aljerin Butler,Jr via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> writes:
Or you could look here: http://customdesktopsolutions.mywebcommunity.org/index.php/linux-open-source...
Thanks for the link. But I have to admit, the formatting on this site is horrendous! *grin* Black text on a grey background? And _small_ text too? Sheesh!
participants (5)
-
Aljerin Butler,Jr. -
Gregory Boyce -
John Stoffel -
Jon "maddog" Hall -
Tim Keller