Re: [Wlug] Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters
by albutler33＠netscape.net
Re: Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters
problem
Andy,
b) Any recruiter who abuses the list by failing to ask permission prior
to posting, or by an excessive volume of emails, will be asked to stop
(including removal from the membership list if necessary).
How would you define excessive?
Al Butler
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: JOB - Senior Operations Engineer - Boston, MA (Tal Cohen)
2. Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters (Andy Stewart)
3. Re: Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters (Andy Stewart)
4. Re: Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters (Chuck Anderson)
5. Re: JOB - Senior Operations Engineer - Boston, MA (Mark Richards)
6. Re: Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters (Andy Stewart)
7. Re: Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters (Mike Leo)
8. Re: Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters (Andy Stewart)
9. Re: JOB - Senior Operations Engineer - Boston, MA (Keith Wright)
Attached Message
From:
Tal Cohen <wlug(a)cohen123.com>
To:
'Jamie Guinan' <guinan(a)bluebutton.com>; 'Worcester Linux Users Group' <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org>
Subject:
Re: [Wlug] JOB - Senior Operations Engineer - Boston, MA
Date:
Mon, 18 Jun 2007 19:12:46 -0400
So, here is a question: What are the guidelines for posting a relevant job
opening to this group? My reason for asking is because the company that I
work for is about to open a few reqs, and I want to get the bounty :)
Seriously (although I do want the bounty), the positions will be appropriate
for the group.
Thanks,
Tal
-----Original Message-----
From: wlug-bounces(a)mail.wlug.org [mailto:wlug-bounces@mail.wlug.org] On
Behalf Of Jamie Guinan
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 4:59 PM
To: Worcester Linux Users Group
Subject: Re: [Wlug] JOB - Senior Operations Engineer - Boston, MA
> The information transmitted in this email is intended only for the
person(s=
> ) or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
pr=
> ivileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
o=
> f, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons
or=
> entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received
=
> this email in error, please contact the sender and permanently delete the
e=
> mail from any computer.
Delete the email... from *any* computer? "Pardon me Fred, I need to
borrow your PC for a few minutes..."
-Jamie
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Attached Message
From:
Andy Stewart <andystewart(a)comcast.net>
To:
Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org>
Subject:
[Wlug] Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters
Date:
Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:00:53 -0400
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HI gang,
Tal Cohen wrote:
> So, here is a question: What are the guidelines for
> posting a relevant job
> opening to this group?
This is a very good question!
In general, I personally frown upon random recruiters posting job
openings on the WLUG mailing list, especially when they don't have the
courtesy of asking permission. Having the list as writable only by list
members helps to keep this type of email traffic minimized.
However, there have been a couple of recruiters in the past who asked
permission prior to posting, which I did grant (John Spencer is one such
individual). I specifically asked John to preface his subject with
"JOB" or "JOBS" so people could filter accordingly, and he has done what
was asked. Also, John's posts have been very Linux relevant IMHO. In
the interest of fair disclosure, I've worked with John in the past and
my employer has hired people represented by him.
I have also had recruiters send the job posting to me, asking me to
forward it to the list. If relevant, I forward the post, but sometimes
I have deleted them if I thought they were not relevant.
Having said all of that, I recognize that this mailing list belongs to
all of us and not just to me. At any time, we as a group can choose to
change our policy. Admittedly, even if every recruiter who posted asked
permission and used the "JOB" subject, the volume of email could become
more than we'd like. To date, this has not happened.
I have not yet heard anybody complain about a group member posting a
relevant job opening for their employer.
In today's particular case, I suspect that if the recruiter were
informed of our policy, he would be happy to comply. Although it is our
email list, how we react on the list is a reflection of the group as a
whole.
In summary, I propose the following for your consideration:
a) Recruiters who wish to post to the WLUG mailing list need to request
permission to do so, and if granted, preface the subject with "JOB" so
people can filter accordingly. As acting president, I presume that the
permission would be granted by me.
b) Any recruiter who abuses the list by failing to ask permission prior
to posting, or by an excessive volume of emails, will be asked to stop
(including removal from the membership list if necessary).
c) Group members may post relevant job openings as long as they preface
the subject with "JOB".
I invite constructive discussion on the proposal, and counter proposals
if appropriate.
Thanks,
Andy
- --
Andy Stewart, Founder
Worcester Linux Users' Group (http://www.wlug.org)
Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group (http://linux.meetup.com/393)
Amateur Radio: KB1OIQ
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Attached Message
From:
Andy Stewart <andystewart(a)comcast.net>
To:
Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org>
Subject:
Re: [Wlug] Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters
Date:
Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:23:39 -0400
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Andy Stewart wrote:
> In summary, I propose the following for your consideration:
>
> a) Recruiters who wish to post to the WLUG mailing list need to request
> permission to do so, and if granted, preface the subject with "JOB" so
> people can filter accordingly. As acting president, I presume that the
> permission would be granted by me.
I just thought of something. When a person who is not a list member
attempts to post a message to the group, the email is sent to the list
moderator for approval. This is currently Frank Sweetser (and I think
Chuck Anderson, also).
In the event that a recruiter attempts to post without first becoming a
group member, I have full trust in the list moderator's judgment to
implement our group policy.
Later,
Andy
- --
Andy Stewart, Founder
Worcester Linux Users' Group (http://www.wlug.org)
Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group (http://linux.meetup.com/393)
Amateur Radio: KB1OIQ
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Attached Message
From:
Chuck Anderson <cra(a)WPI.EDU>
To:
wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
Subject:
Re: [Wlug] Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters
Date:
Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:25:44 -0400
On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 08:23:39PM -0400, Andy Stewart wrote:
> In the event that a recruiter attempts to post without first becoming a
> group member, I have full trust in the list moderator's judgment to
> implement our group policy.
The problem in this case was that the user subscribed to the list, and
then immediately sent the JOB posting. So he was already a "group
member".
Attached Message
From:
Mark Richards <mark.richards(a)massmicro.com>
To:
Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org>
Subject:
Re: [Wlug] JOB - Senior Operations Engineer - Boston, MA
Date:
Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:13:04 -0400
Tal Cohen wrote:?
> So, here is a question: What are the guidelines for posting a relevant job?
> opening to this group?
My guess is that policy need not be set if participants would exercise
basic courtesy: ask first.?
?
You did that. Good show.?
?
/m?
?
?
Attached Message
From:
Andy Stewart <andystewart(a)comcast.net>
To:
wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
Subject:
Re: [Wlug] Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters
Date:
Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:42:22 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Chuck Anderson wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 08:23:39PM -0400, Andy Stewart wrote:
>> In the event that a recruiter attempts to post without first becoming a
>> group member, I have full trust in the list moderator's judgment to
>> implement our group policy.
>
> The problem in this case was that the user subscribed to the list, and
> then immediately sent the JOB posting. So he was already a "group
> member".
Yes, and I have a couple of thoughts on that.
1) I believe this is the first time a recruiter has done this, but I
could be wrong.
2) We as a group have every right to determine what is acceptable email
on the list. In my opinion, if any group member abuses the list, they
should be first asked to stop and then have their privileges revoked if
they continue to abuse the list.
The post did mention Linux, it did have "JOB" in the subject, however,
the recruiter did not ask permission to use our list. Is that
sufficient cause for immediate revocation from the list? Perhaps so,
perhaps not - you tell me. I don't recall anybody asking this
particular recruiter to stop doing what he did. We should revoke with
care. If done harshly, it could damage the group reputation.
3) I opened the topic for discussion because I want to be sure that
folks who are normally less vocal on the group mailing list have a
chance to air their opinions.
4) The end result of these discussions should be posted on the website
as a group policy so guests to our mailing list will understand what we
expect of them.
Thanks,
Andy
- --
Andy Stewart, Founder
Worcester Linux Users' Group (http://www.wlug.org)
Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group (http://linux.meetup.com/393)
Amateur Radio: KB1OIQ
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Attached Message
From:
Mike Leo <mleo963(a)yahoo.com>
To:
Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org>
Subject:
Re: [Wlug] Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters
Date:
Mon, 18 Jun 2007 17:43:58 -0700 (PDT)
Does a job posting really warrant this much discussion?
I know I haven't participated much lately, but the emails discussing the spam job posting have been more spam-like than the original possible spam posting.
spamspamspamspamspamspamspameggsspam.
Anyway, I also posted a job posting earlier today.? Hope I did not break the rules.
Mike
----- Original Message ----
From: Chuck Anderson <cra(a)WPI.EDU>
To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 8:25:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Wlug] Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters
On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 08:23:39PM -0400, Andy Stewart
wrote:
> In the event that a recruiter attempts to post without first becoming a
> group member, I have full trust in the list moderator's judgment to
> implement our group policy.
The problem in this case was that the user subscribed to the list, and
then immediately sent the JOB posting.??So he was already a "group
member".
_______________________________________________
Wlug mailing list
Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
Attached Message
From:
Andy Stewart <andystewart(a)comcast.net>
To:
Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org>
Subject:
Re: [Wlug] Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters
Date:
Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:51:44 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Mike Leo wrote:
> Does a job posting really warrant this much discussion?
Hi Mike,
Normally, no, but this subject has come up before, and I'd like to
settle it.
>
> I know I haven't participated much lately, but the emails discussing the
> spam job posting have been more spam-like than the original possible
> spam posting.
>
> spamspamspamspamspamspamspameggsspam.
>
> Anyway, I also posted a job posting earlier today. Hope I did not break
> the rules.
I had no problem with your post.
Later,
Andy
- --
Andy Stewart, Founder
Worcester Linux Users' Group (http://www.wlug.org)
Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group (http://linux.meetup.com/393)
Amateur Radio: KB1OIQ
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Attached Message
From:
Keith Wright <kwright(a)keithdiane.us>
To:
wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
Subject:
Re: [Wlug] JOB - Senior Operations Engineer - Boston, MA
Date:
Tue, 19 Jun 2007 00:12:08 -0400
> From: "Tal Cohen" <wlug(a)cohen123.com>
>
> What are the guidelines for posting
> a relevant job opening to this group?
Don't be a lamer.
I am tempted to leave it there. True Lamers
will never know who they are, but here are
some guides to How To Be A Lamer.
1. Never come to a meeting.
2. Subscribe to the list for the sole
purpose of posting your advertisement.
3. Fail the Turing Test by using cliches
to indicate that your message was
auto-generated by a computer or marketing
manager.
4. Do not write any introductory remarks
that might show your message is intended
for the WLUG list, rather than every list
in known space.
There are, of course, many other possible
lame actions.
Note that I have no actual power over any
list messages other than my own, and so my
opinions are worthless except in so far as
others agree with them.
-- Keith
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