RE: [Wlug] Re: Next Meeting?
by Matt Higgins
My 2 cents or less if you will.
I think Knoppix is the way to go! The point is to showoff Linux-wares not to
teach about a particular distributions configuration mechanism or file system
layout. Knoppix is clean and impressive in many ways and does a great job at
showing off what Linux can do. Furthermore we are to the point were a Linux
install is no more difficult then a Windows install, particularly the commercial
distributions; Red Hat, SuSe, Mandrake, Yellow Dog, etc...
So thats my 2 cents or less, long live Slackware!
Matt
Quoting Steve Freitag <Steve.Freitag(a)alum.wpi.edu>:
> I've recently spent a small amount of time playing around with both the SuSe
> 8.2 Live Eval, and Knoppix 7-26-03, so I thought I'd pass along my
> observations.
>
>
>
> Both default you into KDE and have a similar selection of apps (Like
> OpenOffice, Mozilla, the GIMP etc). Knoppix happens to be based of Debian.
>
>
>
> There were a couple of things I liked about Knoppix. The first is that you
> don't have to go through all the YaST screens when you boot, Knoppix just
> boots right up to KDE and logs you on as user knoppix. The other neat thing
> about Knoppix is that you can save your configuration and home directory of
> the size you specify on a USB flash drive. With SuSE if you want to save
> your configuration/home dir it creates a 100MB file on your hard drive (and
> another 100MB for swap if you want). With Knoppix you can carry a cheap
> ($10 after rebate) 64MB USB flash drive around with you and a Knoppix CD and
> boot a PC into your personal environment without touching the hard disk.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wlug-admin(a)mail.wlug.org [mailto:wlug-admin@mail.wlug.org] On Behalf
> Of Stephen C. Daukas
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 4:23 PM
> To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
> Subject: Re: [Wlug] Re: Next Meeting?
>
>
>
> Is introducing yet-another-flavor-of-linux useful? I understand what you
> are trying to achieve, but one of the first questions that came to my mind
> was "what is the difference between Knoppix and a regular Linux distro"?
> (The first was actually "what the hell is Knopix"!) Will it be confusing to
> the people looking at is verusus what they see when they look at SuSe, Red
> Hat, etc.?
>
> Andy Stewart wrote:
>
>
>
> On Monday 01 September 2003 4:52 pm, albutler33(a)netscape.net wrote:
>
>
> Andy,
>
> I think a great topic especially for the new students would be "Fast Track
> to Linux" where you introduce the GNOME and KDE desktops and a few of your
> favorite tools and utilities.
>
> Al Butler
>
>
>
> HI Al,
>
> My most current thoughts are centered on Linux, its origins, the GPL,
> WLUG/WPILA, and then segue into single CD demo distributions for folks who
> want to "kick the tires", as it were, without fully committing their hard
> drives to Linux.
>
> One such single CD demo distribution is Knoppix, which does have KDE (and
> GNOME?). Once Knoppix is running, many things could be demonstrated. If I
> go with this idea, I'd want to have copies of the Knoppix CD available for
> people to take home, and hopefully they would try it at their leisure.
>
> How does that sound? Do people have additional ideas? Let's hear them!
> :-)
>
> Later,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
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> http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Stephen C. Daukas - stephen(a)daukas.com - http://daukas.com/
>
>
22 years, 5 months
Re: [Wlug] I guess this is goodbye to WLUG
by James Gray
Hi Liz, in order to find a local LUG you might start with
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/User-Group-HOWTO-3.html
Many of the lists referenced on this page appear to have been updated
recently, although the website itself is rather dated and I only remember
hearing about the Linux Documentation project long ago. Otherwise I suggest
he do an internet search for additional lists/directories of LUGs/open
source/free software groups.
Fixing the text file shouldn't be hard if you know what the characters are
that are causing the problem.
On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Tim Keller <turbofx(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I was just about to ask if we're going to have a meeting tonight!
>
> On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 11:20 PM, E Johnson <iris.gates(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I hope not. Even if I rarely attend meetings, I appreciate everyone and
>> everything that happens in WLUG. Recently soimeone I know by
>> correspondence, apparently a nuclear physicist, has had problems with his
>> aging Mac, and contacted me for help since he knows I build my own
>> computers. He' wants to build his own, and install a Linux OS. He is in the
>> US but not local. I recommended some parts for a new build for him, but
>> also recommended that he find a LUG near him and contact them, etc.
>>
>> Is there a directory of LUGs that he can consult? Are the LUGs in contact
>> with each other? If not, that should have been happening right along.
>>
>> I have one issue of my own going on in a prog I have here that I need
>> help with --just a stupid glitch in a text file that should be easy to
>> find, but the text file is HUGE, yet I don't know how to write the correct
>> commands in order to find the probable bad characters in this file and
>> correct them. It would probably be easy for someone, but... I should write
>> this up and send it in case someone can easily solve this.
>>
>> I hope our LUG and the others are not planning to expire anytime soon.
>>
>> Thanks for being there everyone,
>> Liz J
>>
>> On 7 October 2014 22:28, James Gray <jamespgray(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> rumors of the death of wlug have been greatly exaggerated, I hope.
>>> On Oct 7, 2014 10:22 PM, "Eric Martin" <eric.joshua.martin(a)gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A month with nothing, really?
>>>> On Oct 7, 2014 9:52 PM, "Joel" <joelgroup(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sent messages last month asking about the monthly meeting. No
>>>>> response in
>>>>> a month. No messages in a month.
>>>>>
>>>>> My time with WLUG was fun & informative. I wish you all health &
>>>>> happiness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> Joel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wlug mailing list
>>>>> Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
>>>>> http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wlug mailing list
>>>> Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
>>>> http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wlug mailing list
>>> Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
>>> http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wlug mailing list
>> Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
>> http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their
> constituents as "consumers".
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wlug mailing list
> Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
> http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
>
>
11 years, 4 months
Re: [Wlug] Seeking someone to install SuSE Linux
by Jared Greenwald
I'm surprised that no one has suggested ubuntu (ubuntulinux.org) I
had that installed on my Compaq Evo N600c for a while before reverting
back to Gentoo. (I'm normally a Gentoo user everywhere, but Ubuntu is
just so easy, quick and painless I had to give it a shot.) I'd have
to say its about the easiest distro to install. There is even a
version that comes with KDE pre-setup called Kubuntu (kubuntu.org)
You can even try the livecd to see if it can detect all the hardware
on your laptop. The standard (non-livecd) installer uses the same
logic to do the install, so if the livecd works the real install
should as well. The thing that will take time is the actual download
of the livecd and installer cd.
-Jared
On 10/8/05, Andy Stewart <andystewart(a)comcast.net> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> HI everybody,
>
> Mel Korman came to his first WLUG meeting this past Wednesday asking for
> our help to get Linux installed on his laptop. Those of us who attended
> the meeting thought that his RedHat 9.0 might be too old for its
> installer to comprehend the external USB hard drive on which he had
> hoped to copy Linux, so I gave Mel the SuSE 9.3 Pro CDs which I had at
> the time, in the hope that he'd have a better time with the installation.
>
> Mel gave it a try at home but things are not working. Mel has offered
> to pay someone who would be willing to get Linux installed on his
> Thinkpad laptop (where Windows is also installed). If you are
> interested in helping Mel, please contact him directly at
> finkor(a)verizon.net.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Andy
>
> - --
> Andy Stewart, Founder
> Worcester Linux Users' Group
> Worcester, MA, USA
> http://www.wlug.org
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFDSHK/Hl0iXDssISsRArRmAJ0Un4pgNxJiSyTCuZxUe+nwZUwXYACcDfCM
> h5XKfY0Z2l6BDNMDEiPuTwQ=
> =ja0u
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
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> http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
>
20 years, 3 months
Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!
by Jon "maddog" Hall
John,
Allow me translate what you said:
"As I recall, Itanium was Intel's attempt to bi-furcate the market and
keep 32bit for desktops and such, and to make their 64bit systems for
workstations and such a seperate product so they could take more
control of the motherboard, bios, etc"
to
"Itanium was Intel's abortive attempt to block AMD from making a better,
faster, cheaper 64-bit CISC product."
Shorter, and more to the point.
md
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 4:13 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote:
>
> As I recall, Itanium was Intel's attempt to bi-furcate the market and
> keep 32bit for desktops and such, and to make their 64bit systems for
> workstations and such a seperate product so they could take more
> control of the motherboard, bios, etc.
>
> Then AMD came out with the AMD64 64-bit extenstions to the Intel 386
> (486?) instruction set, since they had an architectural license to the
> ISA, so they just extended it and started shipping cheaper CPUs and
> chipsets that could easily suport more than 4gb of RAM, without
> requiring people to do major re-compiles of their software.
> Especially since it would support 32bit applications in a 64bit OS
> without *any* recompile needed.
>
> They ate Intel's lunch. Which is why the Pentium 4 (I think) was such
> a monster chip in terms of CPU GHz and heat, because they were trying
> to catchup with the Opteron and other AMD chips.
>
> John
>
>
> Tim> My perspective was from working at Stratus. Continuum at the time was
> our flagship line of servers
> Tim> that ran on PA-RISC and with Itanium it was clear the end of the line
> for PA-RISC was coming.
>
> Tim> Bob Evans and others who were more intimately involved can probably
> explain it better, but I
> Tim> remember Stratus getting a couple Itanium development workstations
> and my recollection was that
> Tim> the engineers weren't impressed.
> Tim> It wasn't a fundamental improvement on PA-RISC as far as they could
> tell. Ultimately VOS was
> Tim> ported to Xeon and the rest is history. I'm sure someone somewhere is
> still happily running
> Tim> PA-RISC based Stratus servers, but I have to imagine that number
> dwindles each year.
>
> Tim> Personally I have a hypothesis that Intel had really put it's bets on
> Xeon and wasn't really that
> Tim> invested in Itanium. What it did do was get HP out of the HPC market.
> It's fair to say that Xeon
> Tim> based systems running Linux pretty much put the coffin nails in MIPS,
> PA-RISC and ultimately Sparc
> Tim> and likely a few others I don't know about and with it the various
> operating systems that didn't
> Tim> get ported to Xeon.
>
> Tim> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall <
> jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Tim> I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support
> of Intel's Itanium
> Tim> processor.
>
> Tim> As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a
> number of years I still
> Tim> remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's 64-bit
> chip....an Ultra-Wide
> Tim> Instruction set.
>
> Tim> I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG,
> WRONG.....mostly because I had spent the
> Tim> past six months proving why even a regular CISC system was the
> wrong answer, and here Intel
> Tim> was going in the opposite direction.
>
> Tim> After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned,
> shrugged his shoulders and left my
> Tim> office.
>
> Tim> While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so
> prominent in the production of
> Tim> the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real life
> "Itanic"....watching it sink.
>
> Tim> md
>
> Tim> P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out
> with a reasonable extension
> Tim> to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not RISC) I was
> reasonably happy with.
>
> Tim> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <
> wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote:
>
> Tim> Hey Everybody,
>
> Tim> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time
> (7pm)
>
> Tim> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something,
> I'd be up for it.
> Tim> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the
> linux kernel. Good riddance!
>
> Tim> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!!
>
> Tim> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface.
>
> Tim> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA
>
> Tim> Later,
> Tim> Tim.
> Tim> --
> Tim> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to
> their constituents as
> Tim> "consumers".
> Tim> _______________________________________________
> Tim> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org
> Tim> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org
> Tim> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/
> Tim> Change Settings:
> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/
> Tim> Web Forum/Archive:
> Tim>
> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC…
>
> Tim> --
> Tim> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their
> constituents as "consumers".
>
> Tim> _______________________________________________
> Tim> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org
> Tim> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org
> Tim> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/
> Tim> Change Settings:
> https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/
> Tim> Web Forum/Archive:
> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ZDSLS…
>
5 years
Re: [Wlug] Wlug Digest, Vol 72, Issue 2
by Caobin zhu
Thank you, Billy.
See you there.
> From: wlug-request(a)mail.wlug.org
> Subject: Wlug Digest, Vol 72, Issue 2
> To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 12:00:04 -0400
>
> Send Wlug mailing list submissions to
> wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> wlug-request(a)mail.wlug.org
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> You can reach the person managing the list at
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Wlug digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Wlug Digest, Vol 72, Issue 1 (Caobin zhu)
> 2. Re: Wlug Digest, Vol 72, Issue 1 (Billy Hnath)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 15:07:47 -0400
> From: Caobin zhu <globecstar(a)hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wlug] Wlug Digest, Vol 72, Issue 1
> To: <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org>
> Message-ID: <BLU106-W15954F6025FA36A2B8913FDBD30(a)phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
>
> Hi,
>
> thank you for your info about the meeting. However i am new to the group and never went to WPI for any meeting so i don't know the meeting location. Can you please let me know the location, building name, sreet name? Is that ACM a building name/
>
> thanks again.
>
> caobin
>
> > From: wlug-request(a)mail.wlug.org
> > Subject: Wlug Digest, Vol 72, Issue 1
> > To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
> > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 12:00:03 -0400
> >
> > Send Wlug mailing list submissions to
> > wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > wlug-request(a)mail.wlug.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > wlug-owner(a)mail.wlug.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Wlug digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Reminder: WPI ACM Installfest this Friday, October 2nd at
> > 7pm. (Billy Hnath)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 23:40:28 -0400
> > From: Billy Hnath <bill.hnath(a)gmail.com>
> > Subject: [Wlug] Reminder: WPI ACM Installfest this Friday, October 2nd
> > at 7pm.
> > To: Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org>
> > Message-ID:
> > <24f493190909302040n43177dc2w3c93ff5b4d2ea08(a)mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Hey all,
> >
> > I wanted to remind you all of the Installfest we are having at WPI this
> > Friday, sponsored by the Worcester Chapter ACM. We will have developers from
> > Gentoo, Debian and Redhat along with a couple of other activists in the Open
> > Source community to participate in a panel discussion and Q&A session.
> > Later in the evening we will beging the actual Installfest. Our Gentoo Rep
> > may also being doing a short presentation on Embedded Linux, which is sure
> > to
> > be interesting and fun.
> >
> > I invite you all come by for the talks and even help out new users to Linux
> > with their first-time installs.
> >
> > Thanks and hope to see you there,
> >
> > --Billy
> > WPI ACM President
> >
> > --
> > William R. Hnath, Jr
> > Worcester Polytechnic Institute
> > Class of 2010
> > Alpha Chi Rho - Delta Sigma Phi Chapter
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: http://mail.wlug.org/pipermail/wlug/attachments/20090930/d55b7fb8/attachmen…
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wlug mailing list
> > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
> > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
> >
> >
> > End of Wlug Digest, Vol 72, Issue 1
> > ***********************************
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you.
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 15:22:06 -0400
> From: Billy Hnath <bill.hnath(a)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wlug] Wlug Digest, Vol 72, Issue 1
> To: Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org>
> Message-ID:
> <24f493190910011222p20328471o785366419a71f708(a)mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Hi Caobin,
>
> Our event will be in Fuller Laboratories in Upper Perrault Lecture Hall. Our
> School is at 100 Institute Road Worcester MA 01609. You may park
> in the parking lot on Boynton Street which is next to our library and Fuller
> Labs and across the street from a new, large residence hall.
>
> If you google maps 30 Boynton Street, Worcester MA 10609, you will be right
> across from where you can park and Fuller Labs is up a ramp to the north end
>
> of the lot.
>
> Hope to see you at the event,
>
> --Billy
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Caobin zhu <globecstar(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > thank you for your info about the meeting. However i am new to the group
> > and never went to WPI for any meeting so i don't know the meeting location.
> > Can you please let me know the location, building name, sreet name? Is that
> > ACM a building name/
> > thanks again.
> > caobin
> >
> > > From: wlug-request(a)mail.wlug.org
> > > Subject: Wlug Digest, Vol 72, Issue 1
> > > To: wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
> > > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 12:00:03 -0400
> > >
> > > Send Wlug mailing list submissions to
> > > wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > wlug-request(a)mail.wlug.org
> > >
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > wlug-owner(a)mail.wlug.org
> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of Wlug digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > > 1. Reminder: WPI ACM Installfest this Friday, October 2nd at
> > > 7pm. (Billy Hnath)
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 23:40:28 -0400
> > > From: Billy Hnath <bill.hnath(a)gmail.com>
> > > Subject: [Wlug] Reminder: WPI ACM Installfest this Friday, October 2nd
> > > at 7pm.
> > > To: Worcester Linux Users Group <wlug(a)mail.wlug.org>
> > > Message-ID:
> > > <24f493190909302040n43177dc2w3c93ff5b4d2ea08(a)mail.gmail.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > >
> > > Hey all,
> > >
> > > I wanted to remind you all of the Installfest we are having at WPI this
> > > Friday, sponsored by the Worcester Chapter ACM. We will have developers
> > from
> > > Gentoo, Debian and Redhat along with a couple of other activists in the
> > Open
> > > Source community to participate in a panel discussion and Q&A session.
> > > Later in the evening we will beging the actual Installfest. Our Gentoo
> > Rep
> > > may also being doing a short presentation on Embedded Linux, which is
> > sure
> > > to
> > > be interesting and fun.
> > >
> > > I invite you all come by for the talks and even help out new users to
> > Linux
> > > with their first-time installs.
> > >
> > > Thanks and hope to see you there,
> > >
> > > --Billy
> > > WPI ACM President
> > >
> > > --
> > > William R. Hnath, Jr
> > > Worcester Polytechnic Institute
> > > Class of 2010
> > > Alpha Chi Rho - Delta Sigma Phi Chapter
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL:
> > http://mail.wlug.org/pipermail/wlug/attachments/20090930/d55b7fb8/attachmen…
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wlug mailing list
> > > Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
> > > http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
> > >
> > >
> > > End of Wlug Digest, Vol 72, Issue 1
> > > ***********************************
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> --
> William R. Hnath, Jr
> Worcester Polytechnic Institute
> Class of 2010
> Alpha Chi Rho - Delta Sigma Phi Chapter
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16 years, 4 months
Re: WLUG Meeting Feb 11th 2021! Topic: Good question!
by John Stoffel
>>>>> "Jon" == Jon \"maddog\" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> writes:
Yes, but I don't properly recall if the Itanium design was started
before AMD64 came or as a reaction to the AMD64. Haven't done any
research for the real timelines.
It's a shame the Alpha architecture didn't make it, even though it did
have some bad design decisions inside it's ISA and internal
architecture. It was still a pretty nice and clean 64-bit design. As
I recall, it's mostly the memory ordering around byte accesses that
are the problem.
Jon> Allow me translate what you said:
Jon> "As I recall, Itanium was Intel's attempt to bi-furcate the market and
Jon> keep 32bit for desktops and such, and to make their 64bit systems for
Jon> workstations and such a seperate product so they could take more
Jon> control of the motherboard, bios, etc"
Jon> to
Jon> "Itanium was Intel's abortive attempt to block AMD from making a
Jon> better, faster, cheaper 64-bit CISC product."
Jon> Shorter, and more to the point.
Jon> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 4:13 PM John Stoffel <john(a)stoffel.org> wrote:
Jon> As I recall, Itanium was Intel's attempt to bi-furcate the market and
Jon> keep 32bit for desktops and such, and to make their 64bit systems for
Jon> workstations and such a seperate product so they could take more
Jon> control of the motherboard, bios, etc.
Jon> Then AMD came out with the AMD64 64-bit extenstions to the Intel 386
Jon> (486?) instruction set, since they had an architectural license to the
Jon> ISA, so they just extended it and started shipping cheaper CPUs and
Jon> chipsets that could easily suport more than 4gb of RAM, without
Jon> requiring people to do major re-compiles of their software.
Jon> Especially since it would support 32bit applications in a 64bit OS
Jon> without *any* recompile needed.
Jon> They ate Intel's lunch. Which is why the Pentium 4 (I think) was such
Jon> a monster chip in terms of CPU GHz and heat, because they were trying
Jon> to catchup with the Opteron and other AMD chips.
Jon> John
Tim> My perspective was from working at Stratus. Continuum at the time was our flagship line
Jon> of servers
Tim> that ran on PA-RISC and with Itanium it was clear the end of the line for PA-RISC was
Jon> coming.
Tim> Bob Evans and others who were more intimately involved can probably explain it better,
Jon> but I
Tim> remember Stratus getting a couple Itanium development workstations and my recollection
Jon> was that
Tim> the engineers weren't impressed.
Tim> It wasn't a fundamental improvement on PA-RISC as far as they could tell. Ultimately VOS
Jon> was
Tim> ported to Xeon and the rest is history. I'm sure someone somewhere is still happily
Jon> running
Tim> PA-RISC based Stratus servers, but I have to imagine that number dwindles each year.
Tim> Personally I have a hypothesis that Intel had really put it's bets on Xeon and wasn't
Jon> really that
Tim> invested in Itanium. What it did do was get HP out of the HPC market. It's fair to say
Jon> that Xeon
Tim> based systems running Linux pretty much put the coffin nails in MIPS, PA-RISC and
Jon> ultimately Sparc
Tim> and likely a few others I don't know about and with it the various operating systems that
Jon> didn't
Tim> get ported to Xeon.
Tim> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jon "maddog" Hall <jon.maddog.hall(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Tim> I still vividly remember my boss showing me the plans for support of Intel's Itanium
Tim> processor.
Tim> As someone who taught operating systems and compiler design for a number of years I
Jon> still
Tim> remember my shock that THIS was the answer for Intel's 64-bit chip....an Ultra-Wide
Tim> Instruction set.
Tim> I wailed away about how all of this was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.....mostly because I had
Jon> spent the
Tim> past six months proving why even a regular CISC system was the wrong answer, and here
Jon> Intel
Tim> was going in the opposite direction.
Tim> After twenty minutes of me fuming my boss simply grinned, shrugged his shoulders and
Jon> left my
Tim> office.
Tim> While I was proud of the fact that the Alpha processor was so prominent in the
Jon> production of
Tim> the movie "Titanic"......now I had to deal with a real life "Itanic"....watching it
Jon> sink.
Tim> md
Tim> P.S. It was only a month or so after, I think, that AMD came out with a reasonable
Jon> extension
Tim> to the i86 architecture....which (although it was not RISC) I was reasonably happy
Jon> with.
Tim> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:24 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> wrote:
Tim> Hey Everybody,
Tim> We've got a meeting next week on the 11th at our same time (7pm)
Tim> As for a topic, if somebody would like to present something, I'd be up for it.
Tim> I figure we'd all toast the depreciation of Itanium in the linux kernel. Good
Jon> riddance!
Tim> We'll definitely be talking about the PI4 Nano!!
Tim> As usual, I'm sure other topics will organically surface.
Tim> Location: Our usual Jitsu haunt: https://meet.jit.si/WlugMA
Tim> Later,
Tim> Tim.
Tim> --
Tim> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents
Jon> as
Tim> "consumers".
Tim> _______________________________________________
Tim> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org
Tim> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org
Tim> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/
Tim> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/
Tim> Web Forum/Archive:
Tim>
Jon> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/BJNCC…
Tim> --
Tim> I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as
Jon> "consumers".
Tim> _______________________________________________
Tim> WLUG mailing list -- wlug(a)lists.wlug.org
Tim> To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave(a)lists.wlug.org
Tim> Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/
Tim> Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/
Tim> Web Forum/Archive:
Jon> https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ZDSLS…
5 years
Re: Wlug Digest, Vol 22, Issue 18
by Carlton C. Stedman II
Re: Bootable RAID system
> I keep waffling back and forth between RAID1 (mirroring) and RAID5.
> And I keep waffling between booting from RAID or not. Part of the
> problem is that to boot off raid, you need to build a intrd image, and
> since I do a bunch of kernel compiles and reboots all the time (say
> once a week or so...) I've been a bit leary of all that.
I've done software RAID (RAID0 and RAID5) for a long time and never had to
use an initrd image. Just have a 100 MB boot partition on one drive, and
set root=/dev/md0 in grub. This is with two 60GB WD HD's and one 80 GB
(which has the bootable 100 MB partition). If you RAID it all, well, guess
you need an initrd (please correct me if I'm wrong). As far as RAID1 and
RAID5, isn't RAID5 strictly better, if you have the HD's? I mean, just
lose 1/3 of the storage for total mirroring and you have to lose 2 HD's to
lose your data. Why would someone choose RAID1 over RAID5 (just curious)?
I did have a RAID5 system set up, but decided to change it over to RAID0
and use an external Maxtor drive for backup (just simple rsync).
> Now that would be a good meeting some evening, talking about and
> showing how to setup a bootable RAID system for the OS and how to
> upgrade your kernel easily and automatically.
Personally, I feel if you compile a couple of kernels it really becomes
old hat, I mean, once you know how to do it it's no big deal. Same with
RAID systems. But that would be an interesting meeting, nonetheless.
> Let me rephrase your reasoning: You don't want to use an initrd because
> you aren't familiar with the process. Just because you do a lot of
kernel
> builds/reboots (and your definition of a lot is my definition of very few,
> here), that is no reason not to use an initrd.
I've never had a problem and found I needed initrd to get something to
work. What are the benefits of using it?
- Carlton
20 years, 5 months
Re: Dec meeting.. not the 14th! 21st or 28th?
by Jon "maddog" Hall
I travel internationally a LOT, and having a VPN host in the USA means I
can access websites the same way I can from home for all of the reasons
that Chuck mentioned. Recently this has been extended not only to movies,
TV shows, etc. that are blocked in foreign countries because the USA
advertisers can not get their pound of flesh from foreign viewers, but also
because foreign governments may not allow access to those websites for
various reasons. Also various financial and medical websites may not
allow access from outside the USA even though I have an account on those
systems and legitimate reasons for access. Using the VPN all the time
means that the sites work the same no matter where my laptop or desktop is
located.
md
md
On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 9:54 AM Chuck Anderson via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org>
wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 08, 2023 at 03:13:49AM -0500, Robert Schwein via WLUG wrote:
> > On 12/8/2023 12:56 AM, Chuck Anderson via WLUG wrote:
> > > (local sports broadcast blackouts). Or trick hotels into giving you
> > > a better price--yes, hotels can hike the rates they present to you
> > > if they think you are nearby--assuming you need last-minute
> > > accomodations while you are away on vacation.
>
> > You've pretty much hit the high points Chuck. From my own experience
> > when going overseas if I'm able to VPN to the country I'm going to, the
> > rental car reservation is considerably less in cost to reserve that car
> > than if I reserved it from state side. I'm assuming there is a
> > difference between a poor native and a rich American.
>
> Oh right, I had the hotel thing backwards. It may be cheaper if you
> appear to be in-country for hotels, rental cars, etc.
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2 years, 2 months
Re: [Wlug] Give away...
by Lee Keyser-Allen
I'm sorry to spam the list, but I can't help pointing out the irony
inherent in the items being offered. The fact that one crt has developed
a red ting, whilst the other has lost it's ability to manufacture red at
all. I since a physics proof on the conservation of red electrons<sic>
in the Keller household. Really I think the two must be offered as a set
to avoid some sort of cosmic imbalance :).
Sorry again, I couldn't resist; my brain does this to me every now and
then, and I felt the need to share the pain.
Cheers,
Lee
Keller, Tim wrote:
>Hey Everybody,
>
>I've got a color 13" television I'd like to give to a good home. It's an
>oldie, but a goodie. Every once and a while it'll get a bit of a red ting,
>but overall it works great. Note, this TV only has coax input.
>
>I've also got a 21" viewsonic monitor that the red electron gun has gone on
>the fritz. I'm sure a monitor tech could fix it in no time, however since
>it cost me nothing, I feel no qualms in just giving it away.
>
>Other stuff...
>1. Pentium 166 with 128mb of ram. This entire machine is questionable and
>possibly a fire hazard (due to some dodgy soldering work done by your truly
>on the power supply after the fans bearings went south and I installed a new
>fan) though I ran the machine for many years after my repairs and never had
>a problem. With a new case and power supply this machine would probably be
>a great firewall. It's also got a 512mb and 3gig hard drive in it.
>
>2. Huge Server case minus power supply. 6 bays in the front, lots of room
>for fans and drives and all that good stuff.
>
>If you want any of this stuff, just write me back and I'll bring it with me
>to the next wlug meeting. If you can't make it to the meeting, we'll
>arrange something.
>
>Thanks,
>Tim.
>
>_______________________________________________
>Wlug mailing list
>Wlug(a)mail.wlug.org
>http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
>
>
22 years, 1 month
Re: Stuck in traffic
by Althea Shaheen
I would love to hear more from you John about what your experience is with TrueNAS Enterprise versus NetApp, as I am looking at the same options myself. We have used NetApp for longer than I have been around but the cost of it is a whole different level than what I imagine TrueNAS would be. I've used Scale personally and Core for backup systems at work, but the HA/failover is what I am most curious about if we went the route of Enterprise.
-Althea
On Fri, Oct 11, 2024, at 09:36, John Stoffel via WLUG wrote:
>>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug(a)lists.wlug.org> writes:
>
>> I'm currently stuck in traffic I should be there for about 7:10
>
> So how did the meeting go? Any comments or thoughts on ZFS and how
> it's useful and how it can be abused?
>
> I'm using ZFS on a TrueNAS Enterprise cluster, which works, but has
> it's issues, mostly around failover speed. Been spoiled by Netapps
> for too many years.
>
> I've also managed to make Oracle branded ZFS appliances fall over due
> to load, so I have reservations about ZFS to this day.
>
> I do like the *ideas* behind it, and some of the powerful features it
> has. But the layering violations make me worry.
>
> Just go look at the problems btrfs has had trying to do it's own RAID5
> instead of just layering on top of MD RAID5 (which I also admit has had
> problems too! Nothing is perfect...).
>
> The goals of ZFS in terms of file content checksums are awesome, I
> really like that. I just wish there was a better way to actually
> shrink ZFS filesystems (even if done as any offline process) without
> jumping through all kinds of hoops.
>
> Anyway, I hope to see you all at the next meeting!
> John
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1 year, 3 months