Staples has a low-priced machine advertised in the Globe: $199.94 for a Compaq Presario with an AMD Sempron processor. Any idea how this might work with Linux? I picked up a cheap Compaq at Walmart a year ago, and I returned it because it was such a dog. TIA, Bill
On Wed, Dec 22, 2004 at 09:29:45PM -0500, Bill Mills-Curran wrote:
Staples has a low-priced machine advertised in the Globe: $199.94 for a Compaq Presario with an AMD Sempron processor. Any idea how this might work with Linux? I picked up a cheap Compaq at Walmart a year ago, and I returned it because it was such a dog.
I don't know, but Sempron is AMD's answer to the Celerons. I would recommend getting a Small Business server Dell PowerEdge 400SC instead. Those are Hyperthreading Pentium 4's, they work with Linux (you can get it preinstalled if you like) and you are not paying any MS-tax. In addition, they have an AGP slot (unadvertised) so you can use them as a nice Linux desktop if you want. Dell has deals every once in a while for these systems in the range of $300-400 in their minimum configurations. Check slickdeals.net for the coupon codes.
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Charles R. Anderson wrote:
Those are Hyperthreading Pentium 4's,
Yea, but Hyperthreading is a nice idea that is still somewhat irrelevant at this stage. Even with dual-cores on the horizon there has is lots of optimizations to do before any of this power is utilized. More relevant now is Hypertransport, which for some reason AMD doesn't brag about as must as Intel does for Hyperthreading. -- Gary
==> Regarding Re: [Wlug] cheap Compaq at Staples; Gary Hanley <gary@hanley.net> adds: gary> On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Charles R. Anderson wrote:
Those are Hyperthreading Pentium 4's,
gary> Yea, but Hyperthreading is a nice idea that is still somewhat gary> irrelevant at this stage. Even with dual-cores on the horizon there gary> has is lots of optimizations to do before any of this power is gary> utilized. I wouldn't call HT irrelevant. It really depends on your workload. gary> More relevant now is Hypertransport, which for some reason AMD gary> doesn't brag about as must as Intel does for Hyperthreading. As always, it depends. What is the price point? What is the machine actually going to be used for? -Jeff
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Jeff Moyer wrote:
I wouldn't call HT irrelevant. It really depends on your workload.
How about somewhat irrelevant? I'm sure there are some apps that take advantage of it right now, but I think that we won't see significant benefit until dual-cores arrive.
As always, it depends. What is the price point? What is the machine actually going to be used for?
Hypertransport is a whole different animal compared to Hyperthreading. Apples and Oranges for sure. -- Gary
==> Regarding Re: [Wlug] cheap Compaq at Staples; Gary Hanley <gary@hanley.net> adds: gary> On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Jeff Moyer wrote:
I wouldn't call HT irrelevant. It really depends on your workload.
gary> How about somewhat irrelevant? gary> I'm sure there are some apps that take advantage of it right now, but gary> I think that we won't see significant benefit until dual-cores gary> arrive. Under Linux, the SMP kernel has provisions to deal with HT. I'm sure Windows XP does, as well. As such, it isn't necessary for applications to directly take advantage of HT.
As always, it depends. What is the price point? What is the machine actually going to be used for?
gary> Hypertransport is a whole different animal compared to gary> Hyperthreading. gary> Apples and Oranges for sure. Right. -Jeff
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Jeff Moyer wrote:
Under Linux, the SMP kernel has provisions to deal with HT. I'm sure Windows XP does, as well. As such, it isn't necessary for applications to directly take advantage of HT.
Sure, but how much of a boost is that going to get you from an app that is single-threaded? I would argue that it is not enough to influence a buying decision. -- Gary
Gary Hanley said:
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Jeff Moyer wrote:
Sure, but how much of a boost is that going to get you from an app that is single-threaded? I would argue that it is not enough to influence a buying decision.
It won't get you any boost on a single threaded app, but my linux box has 20 users logged into it right now, each running a different process as well as web, mail, dns, and mysql servers all running. Having the ability to schedule more then process at a time is an overall boost for my system. Of course, it's not as much of a boost as a dual core or dual CPU would be, but I'll take what I can get. Scott
==> Regarding Re: [Wlug] cheap Compaq at Staples; Gary Hanley <gary@hanley.net> adds: gary> On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Jeff Moyer wrote:
Under Linux, the SMP kernel has provisions to deal with HT. I'm sure Windows XP does, as well. As such, it isn't necessary for applications to directly take advantage of HT.
gary> Sure, but how much of a boost is that going to get you from an app gary> that is single-threaded? I would argue that it is not enough to gary> influence a buying decision. And this gets back to the part from my previous email that you conveniently left out: I wouldn't call HT irrelevant. It really depends on your workload. Having said that, what influences *my* buying decision is sharkeyextreme.com. But I like to game. ;-) -Jeff
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Jeff Moyer wrote:
And this gets back to the part from my previous email that you conveniently left out: I wouldn't call HT irrelevant. It really depends on your workload.
I thought I responded to that. Anyway, my end-point is that dual-core/multi-core will be much more relevant than Hyperthreading will EVER be.
Having said that, what influences *my* buying decision is sharkeyextreme.com. But I like to game. ;-)
I used to read Sharky until he sold the site a few years back and it became rather dull. I haven't looked since then so maybe it's much better now...? I usually read: http://www.anandtech.com/ http://www.aceshardware.com/ -- Gary
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:10:36 -0500 (EST), Gary Hanley <gary@hanley.net> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Charles R. Anderson wrote:
Those are Hyperthreading Pentium 4's,
Yea, but Hyperthreading is a nice idea that is still somewhat irrelevant at this stage. Even with dual-cores on the horizon there has is lots of optimizations to do before any of this power is utilized.
More relevant now is Hypertransport, which for some reason AMD doesn't brag about as must as Intel does for Hyperthreading. Hyperthreading and hypertransport are vastly different beasts. Hyperthreading creates two "virtual" processors on a single CPU. Here is a good description of hyperthreading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper-threading.
Hypertransport, on the other hand is a chip to chip transport. It is a serial interface that makes the bits go faster. It is basically the bus logic and thus far too technical to be interesting to the marketing types. Where hyperthreading performance can be described by marketeers as making your app go fatster, hypertransport will speed up everything, but it is difficult to quantify and thus marketeers can't sell it. Just my 2 cents. Thanks Brian
-- Gary _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, Brian Waite wrote:
Hyperthreading and hypertransport are vastly different beasts.
Right, but the comment wasn't that they were either different or similar - it was that AMD isn't selling hypertransport while Intel is selling hyperthreading.
Where hyperthreading performance can be described by marketeers as making your app go fatster, hypertransport will speed up everything, but it is difficult to quantify and thus marketeers can't sell it.
True. However Intel is doing quite well with "Centrino" and I'd bet most people who buy "Centrino" have no idea what it is. (No one here, of course!) My own conspiracy theory is that when Intel realized AMD was not selling hypertransport they way they should they named hyperthreading as such to create confusion with the two features. If masses hear Intel barking "hyperthreading" all the time they will assume AMD is talking about the same thing if they ever hear "hypertransport" Eh, it's my paranoid conspiracy theory. I'm sticking to it. :-) -- Gary
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:41:32 -0500 (EST), Gary Hanley <gary@hanley.net> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, Brian Waite wrote:
True. However Intel is doing quite well with "Centrino" and I'd bet most people who buy "Centrino" have no idea what it is. (No one here, of course!)
Isn't it just built in 802.11b? If not.. then, yeah lousy marketing =)
On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 12:15:11 -0500, Marc Hughes <marc.hughes@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:41:32 -0500 (EST), Gary Hanley <gary@hanley.net> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, Brian Waite wrote:
True. However Intel is doing quite well with "Centrino" and I'd bet most people who buy "Centrino" have no idea what it is. (No one here, of course!)
Isn't it just built in 802.11b? If not.. then, yeah lousy marketing =)
Someone said to me the other day, "Doesn't Centrino allow you to connect anywhere in the world?", like the ad suggests when connecting from a tent on the side of a mountain. In this case I think the marketing did too good a job of selling.
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 01:25:15 -0500 "Charles R. Anderson" <cra@WPI.EDU> wrote:
I don't know, but Sempron is AMD's answer to the Celerons. I would recommend getting a Small Business server Dell PowerEdge 400SC instead. Those are Hyperthreading Pentium 4's, they work with Linux (you can get it preinstalled if you like) and you are not paying any MS-tax. In addition, they have an AGP slot (unadvertised) so you can use them as a nice Linux desktop if you want. Dell has deals every once in a while for these systems in the range of $300-400 in their minimum configurations. Check slickdeals.net for the coupon codes.
Geez, Charles... You're starting to sound like a Dell salesman... <g> Are you getting a cut of every 400SC they sell to WLUG members? :D Happy Holidays! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- William Smith wsmith-at-chezsmith-dot-com Fall River, MA http://www.chezsmith.com "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ." -- Patrick Henry, American patriot * TAG! v3.1a *
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Bill Smith wrote:
Geez, Charles... You're starting to sound like a Dell salesman... <g> Are you getting a cut of every 400SC they sell to WLUG members? :D Happy Holidays!
Dell is the Wal-Mart of x86! Death to Dell! :-) -- Gary
On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 01:25:15AM -0500, Charles R. Anderson wrote:
On Wed, Dec 22, 2004 at 09:29:45PM -0500, Bill Mills-Curran wrote:
Staples has a low-priced machine advertised in the Globe: $199.94 for a Compaq Presario with an AMD Sempron processor. Any idea how this might work with Linux? I picked up a cheap Compaq at Walmart a year ago, and I returned it because it was such a dog.
I don't know, but Sempron is AMD's answer to the Celerons. I would recommend getting a Small Business server Dell PowerEdge 400SC instead. Those are Hyperthreading Pentium 4's, they work with Linux (you can get it preinstalled if you like) and you are not paying any MS-tax. In addition, they have an AGP slot (unadvertised) so you can use them as a nice Linux desktop if you want. Dell has deals every once in a while for these systems in the range of $300-400 in their minimum configurations. Check slickdeals.net for the coupon codes.
There's an add in today's Globe for a 420SC for $375. www.dell.com/globeoffer When I started configuring it (the online price is even cheaper), I got the following warning: The PowerEdge SC420 is ideal for your first server & network. Note: For server use only; CANNOT BE USED AS A DESKTOP. Dell does not support the use of a graphics card on the SC420. Hmm... Should I believe that? Bill
On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 12:05:08 -0500 Bill Mills-Curran <bill@mills-curran.net> wrote:
When I started configuring it (the online price is even cheaper), I got the following warning:
The PowerEdge SC420 is ideal for your first server & network. Note: For server use only; CANNOT BE USED AS A DESKTOP. Dell does not support the use of a graphics card on the SC420.
Hmm... Should I believe that?
You can probably believe the part of "if you add a graphics card, you're on your own", but that doesn't mean that it can't be done. Most of their sales usually fit the following categories: -- People that don't know what they're doing, else they'd build their own machine. -- People that know what they're doing, but are too busy to take the time to find the parts that do what they need. -- Companies that can't be bothered to build and support their own custom boxes. These companies find it easier to have a third-party that will support the box(es) that they sell. The 420SC, Dell is betting, will be sold to entities that fit the first and third groups, and if anyone from the second group tries to install a video card (most servers tend to be headless or need only redimentary graphics cards, so fancy cards are a giveaway!), then all bets are off for support. I seem to recall something about someone having a bad experience with Dell with a laptop once... The guy refused the terms of the EULA (with respect to WinXP), and wanted a refund for the cost of the OS (he chose to put Debian on instead). The link is here: http://www.nomis52.net/?section=comps&page=dell (That's all a bit off the subject, though.) At any rate, the gist of the whole ordeal is that if you're okay with foregoing any support from Dell, get the system and modify it to your heart's content. If you don't want to risk voiding any future support, I'd pay close attention to the EULA and live by it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- William Smith wsmith-at-chezsmith-dot-com Fall River, MA http://www.chezsmith.com Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Walk beside me and be my friend. -- Albert Camus, French writer and philosopher (1913-1960) * TAG! v3.1a *
On Tue, Jan 04, 2005 at 12:45:03PM -0500, Bill Smith wrote:
The PowerEdge SC420 is ideal for your first server & network. Note: For server use only; CANNOT BE USED AS A DESKTOP. Dell does not support the use of a graphics card on the SC420.
Hmm... Should I believe that?
It's probably the same deal as the 400SC--it probably has an AGP slot on the motherboard.
The 420SC, Dell is betting, will be sold to entities that fit the first and third groups, and if anyone from the second group tries to install a video card (most servers tend to be headless or need only redimentary graphics cards, so fancy cards are a giveaway!), then all bets are off for support.
Well, if you have a problem, you can always pull out the AGP card and switch to the PCI card before you call support...
On Tue, Jan 04, 2005 at 01:06:59PM -0500, Charles R. Anderson wrote:
On Tue, Jan 04, 2005 at 12:45:03PM -0500, Bill Smith wrote:
The PowerEdge SC420 is ideal for your first server & network. Note: For server use only; CANNOT BE USED AS A DESKTOP. Dell does not support the use of a graphics card on the SC420.
Hmm... Should I believe that?
It's probably the same deal as the 400SC--it probably has an AGP slot on the motherboard.
The 420SC, Dell is betting, will be sold to entities that fit the first and third groups, and if anyone from the second group tries to install a video card (most servers tend to be headless or need only redimentary graphics cards, so fancy cards are a giveaway!), then all bets are off for support.
Well, if you have a problem, you can always pull out the AGP card and switch to the PCI card before you call support...
I found some references to this machine: http://www.aaltonen.us/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1999 http://www.aaltonen.us/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2058 http://www.slickdeals.net/forums/printthread.php?t=59592 Since I'm not gamer (just want good resolution), is there any reason that a PCI graphics card would not work?
On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 21:04:32 -0500, Bill Mills-Curran <bill@mills-curran.net> wrote:
Since I'm not gamer (just want good resolution), is there any reason that a PCI graphics card would not work?
I think the key is this is "just another computer" and that whatever you want to do with it will be fine. I think the onboard video would work just as well. Does anyone have comments on the Celeron 2.5 GHz with 533 MHz FSB as compared to the P4/2.8/800? thanks BR
On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 12:45:03 -0500, Bill Smith <wsmith@chezsmith.com> wrote:
-- People that know what they're doing, but are too busy to take the time to find the parts that do what they need.
OK, I'm in this group :-) Funny thing is though, I configured the machine the way I want it, price came out to $333 but as soon as I put it in the cart it jumped to $383. Can't find any explanation of the $50 mystery charge. Oh, I configured it with the Celeron 325J, 2.53GHz, 256KB Cache, 533MHz FSB instead of the Pentium 4, 520, 2.8GHz, 1MB Cache, 800MHz FSB to save $99 and a bunch of heat and power. I believe the DDR2 400MHz memory will run at 333 with this CPU, but not sure. Anyone have an opinion on the processor downgrade that would convince me it's bad? I was planning on using this for a MythTV backend, with Hauppauge HW video capture cards, so CPU is less essential. Also used for file/media serving, etc. Thanks BR
Here's a site that gives you a good overview of AMD processors: http://www.short-media.com/review.php?r=272 All the AMD processors work fine with Linux, but at that price I'm not sure what you are getting. It most likely will be somewhat of a dog due to cheapo motherboard/graphics/memory components. Does it list what those are? -- Gary On Wed, 22 Dec 2004, Bill Mills-Curran wrote:
Staples has a low-priced machine advertised in the Globe: $199.94 for a Compaq Presario with an AMD Sempron processor. Any idea how this might work with Linux? I picked up a cheap Compaq at Walmart a year ago, and I returned it because it was such a dog.
TIA, Bill _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
No info in the add about the components, but it's worth noting that the list price is $450, which is reduced by a $200 "instant rebate" and a $50 "easy rebate". (I know, I know... it's all advertising gimmicks.) It's model # SR1200NX. Here's a link from Google: http://shopping.msn.com/search/detail.aspx?pcId=621&prodId=3123503 Bill On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 07:00:41AM -0500, Gary Hanley wrote:
Here's a site that gives you a good overview of AMD processors:
http://www.short-media.com/review.php?r=272
All the AMD processors work fine with Linux, but at that price I'm not sure what you are getting. It most likely will be somewhat of a dog due to cheapo motherboard/graphics/memory components.
Does it list what those are?
-- Gary
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004, Bill Mills-Curran wrote:
Staples has a low-priced machine advertised in the Globe: $199.94 for a Compaq Presario with an AMD Sempron processor. Any idea how this might work with Linux? I picked up a cheap Compaq at Walmart a year ago, and I returned it because it was such a dog.
TIA, Bill _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
_______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
Here is the MB: http://www.asus.com/products/mb/socketa/a7v8x-mx/overview.htm and http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?dlc=en&lc=en&product=433683&lang... Actually, with the rebates this looks like a good deal. For myself I usually avoid rebates when possible buy I could be swayed by this one if I was looking for such a box. -- Gary On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Bill Mills-Curran wrote:
No info in the add about the components, but it's worth noting that the list price is $450, which is reduced by a $200 "instant rebate" and a $50 "easy rebate". (I know, I know... it's all advertising gimmicks.)
It's model # SR1200NX. Here's a link from Google:
http://shopping.msn.com/search/detail.aspx?pcId=621&prodId=3123503
Bill
On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 07:00:41AM -0500, Gary Hanley wrote:
Here's a site that gives you a good overview of AMD processors:
http://www.short-media.com/review.php?r=272
All the AMD processors work fine with Linux, but at that price I'm not sure what you are getting. It most likely will be somewhat of a dog due to cheapo motherboard/graphics/memory components.
Does it list what those are?
-- Gary
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004, Bill Mills-Curran wrote:
Staples has a low-priced machine advertised in the Globe: $199.94 for a Compaq Presario with an AMD Sempron processor. Any idea how this might work with Linux? I picked up a cheap Compaq at Walmart a year ago, and I returned it because it was such a dog.
TIA, Bill _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
_______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
Any link for this or is this a in-store only? My dad is looking for a new desktop for cheap and doesn't need much and this would be perfect for him. CH On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 21:29:45 -0500, Bill Mills-Curran <bill@mills-curran.net> wrote:
Staples has a low-priced machine advertised in the Globe: $199.94 for a Compaq Presario with an AMD Sempron processor. Any idea how this might work with Linux? I picked up a cheap Compaq at Walmart a year ago, and I returned it because it was such a dog.
TIA, Bill _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
-- Chuck Haines chaines@gmail.com ------------------------------------------- Tau Kappa Epsilon Fraternity TKE-ZM Web Coordinator ECE Systems Administrator ------------------------------------------- AIM: CyberGrex YIM: CyberGrex_27 ICQ: 3707881 ------------------------------------------- GPG Fingerprint: 303A AB50 4EA9 70ED 2E30 2368 C9CD CCB5 4BD7 0989 GPG Key: http://www.maxslack.com/gpgkey.txt
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Chuck Haines wrote: CH>Any link for this or is this a in-store only? My dad is looking for a CH>new desktop for cheap and doesn't need much and this would be perfect CH>for him. http://instorespecials.staples.com/ I looked at the Dec. 19 - Dec. 24 circulars ("Current Circular") for both Worcester MA (storeid=2401091) and Boston MA (storeID=2421006), and there are no Compaq products listed in the weekly flyer. I also checked with http://www.salescircular.com/ma.shtml , and I didn't find any computer system selling for $199.94 this week in MA among the stores they follow (store list is here: http://www.salescircular.com/storedtl.html ). I also checked with http://www.saleshound.com/saleshound/store_list.asp and searched for "Compaq" at stores 50 miles from Boston, MA, and there were no results. Is the $199.94 Compaq Presario listed in the Boston Globe a special for a particular store, or is it maybe in next week's flyers? -- --==*==-- --==*==-- Michelle R. Vadeboncoeur --==*==-- --==*==-- mrv@kluge.net: http://www.kluge.net/~mrv/
On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 01:30:44PM -0500, Michelle Vadeboncoeur wrote:
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Chuck Haines wrote:
CH>Any link for this or is this a in-store only? My dad is looking for a CH>new desktop for cheap and doesn't need much and this would be perfect CH>for him.
http://instorespecials.staples.com/
I looked at the Dec. 19 - Dec. 24 circulars ("Current Circular") for both Worcester MA (storeid=2401091) and Boston MA (storeID=2421006), and there are no Compaq products listed in the weekly flyer.
I also checked with http://www.salescircular.com/ma.shtml , and I didn't find any computer system selling for $199.94 this week in MA among the stores they follow (store list is here: http://www.salescircular.com/storedtl.html ).
I also checked with http://www.saleshound.com/saleshound/store_list.asp and searched for "Compaq" at stores 50 miles from Boston, MA, and there were no results.
Is the $199.94 Compaq Presario listed in the Boston Globe a special for a particular store, or is it maybe in next week's flyers?
-- --==*==-- --==*==-- Michelle R. Vadeboncoeur --==*==-- --==*==-- mrv@kluge.net: http://www.kluge.net/~mrv/
I think it was in a 12/20/4 flyer. But, they were all sold out in the first day. Bill
After waiting long enough to decide that, yes, I want to buy this, I discovered they were all sold out. :-( Bill On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 11:13:29AM -0500, Chuck Haines wrote:
Any link for this or is this a in-store only? My dad is looking for a new desktop for cheap and doesn't need much and this would be perfect for him.
CH
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 21:29:45 -0500, Bill Mills-Curran <bill@mills-curran.net> wrote:
Staples has a low-priced machine advertised in the Globe: $199.94 for a Compaq Presario with an AMD Sempron processor. Any idea how this might work with Linux? I picked up a cheap Compaq at Walmart a year ago, and I returned it because it was such a dog.
TIA, Bill _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
-- Chuck Haines chaines@gmail.com ------------------------------------------- Tau Kappa Epsilon Fraternity TKE-ZM Web Coordinator ECE Systems Administrator ------------------------------------------- AIM: CyberGrex YIM: CyberGrex_27 ICQ: 3707881 ------------------------------------------- GPG Fingerprint: 303A AB50 4EA9 70ED 2E30 2368 C9CD CCB5 4BD7 0989 GPG Key: http://www.maxslack.com/gpgkey.txt _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
participants (12)
-
Bill Mills-Curran -
Bill Smith -
Brett Russ -
Brian Waite -
Charles R. Anderson -
Chuck Haines -
Gary Hanley -
Jeff Moyer -
Jim Dibb -
Marc Hughes -
Michelle Vadeboncoeur -
Scott Venier