Mike, Believe it or not, both VMS and Digital Unix systems were the same way. They would go months and years without rebooting. The US Navy had two hospital ships, the "Mercy" and the "Hope". One stationed on the East Coast and one in San Diego. The one on the East Coast used WNT for the servers and the one in San Diego used GNU/Linux. The ship using WNT had to have twice as many servers as the one in San Diego because the Navy rules said that a WNT server HAD to be rebooted every 30 days, whereas there was no such requirement for GNU/Linux. Since a Naval deployment could last longer than 30 days, and since they needed the server services to be up constantly that whole time, they needed twice as many WNT servers. md On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 8:58 AM Mike Peckar via WLUG wrote:

Fun Story, Maddog. Around 20 yrs ago I was consulting for Bloomberg in Skillman, NJ, a big Solaris shop. The HP app I was working with bellied up with memory leaks and I suggested they reboot that server. I was told flat out they don't reboot Solaris servers period. They cleaned up the mess and isolated where in the HP code that the pointer was lost, leaving me the not-so-fun task of filing the bug report with HP.

Mike

On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 7:39 PM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote:

...

Tim,

What was the reason for shutting it down?

This reminds me of a story from years ago where a young friend contacted me before a trip to the University of New Hampshire for a Linux LUG meeting.

He asked me if I would go to a particular dorm and knock on the door of what had been his door room. I was to ask if I could unplug the box that was in the corner of the closet in the room. The system had been running for five years in his former dorm room and he had forgotten the login password. He did not want the machine back, just wanted it unplugged.

A young woman answered the door, heard my explanation and let me unplug the machine. "We were afraid to unplug it" she said.

Your machine beat his machine on uptime.

md

On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 5:07 PM Tim Keller via WLUG wrote:

...

I just shutdown a linux machine with 3169 days of uptime! It had userland processes that have been actively running since 2013! Tim.

-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers". _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/PW3MLO...

_______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/KSUVDP...

_______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ZZZSNI...

I had not heard of Fortran 5 (or Fortran V) and a half-hearted search of the Internet did not find anything. Do you have any pointers to it? Thanks, md On Thu, Apr 21, 2022, 18:09 Mike Peckar wrote:

According to the Guiness Book of World records, The computer system that has been in continual operation for the longest period is the Computer Command System (CCS) onboard NASA's *Voyager 2* spacecraft. This system has been in continuous operation since the spacecraft's launch on 20 August 1977. Voyager 1's CCS uptime trails it by a couple of weeks and both are still going.

Each Voyager has two CCSs, two Flight Data System (FDS) computers and two Attitude and Articulation Control System (AACS) computers, but the FDS & AACS do not operate continuously. The CCS's have two 18-bit word, interrupt type processors with 4096 words each of non-volatile plated wire memory amounting to 69.63 kilobytes. They execute about 81,000 instructions per second and transmit data back to Earth at 160 bits per second. They were originally programmed in Fortran 5.

Mike

On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 12:32 PM Jon "maddog" Hall < jon.maddog.hall@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Mike,

Believe it or not, both VMS and Digital Unix systems were the same way. They would go months and years without rebooting.

The US Navy had two hospital ships, the "Mercy" and the "Hope". One stationed on the East Coast and one in San Diego. The one on the East Coast used WNT for the servers and the one in San Diego used GNU/Linux. The ship using WNT had to have twice as many servers as the one in San Diego because the Navy rules said that a WNT server HAD to be rebooted every 30 days, whereas there was no such requirement for GNU/Linux. Since a Naval deployment could last longer than 30 days, and since they needed the server services to be up constantly that whole time, they needed twice as many WNT servers.

md

On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 8:58 AM Mike Peckar via WLUG wrote:

...

Fun Story, Maddog. Around 20 yrs ago I was consulting for Bloomberg in Skillman, NJ, a big Solaris shop. The HP app I was working with bellied up with memory leaks and I suggested they reboot that server. I was told flat out they don't reboot Solaris servers period. They cleaned up the mess and isolated where in the HP code that the pointer was lost, leaving me the not-so-fun task of filing the bug report with HP.

Mike

On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 7:39 PM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote:

...

Tim,

What was the reason for shutting it down?

This reminds me of a story from years ago where a young friend contacted me before a trip to the University of New Hampshire for a Linux LUG meeting.

He asked me if I would go to a particular dorm and knock on the door of what had been his door room. I was to ask if I could unplug the box that was in the corner of the closet in the room. The system had been running for five years in his former dorm room and he had forgotten the login password. He did not want the machine back, just wanted it unplugged.

A young woman answered the door, heard my explanation and let me unplug the machine. "We were afraid to unplug it" she said.

Your machine beat his machine on uptime.

md

On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 5:07 PM Tim Keller via WLUG < wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote:

...

I just shutdown a linux machine with 3169 days of uptime! It had userland processes that have been actively running since 2013! Tim.

-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers". _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/PW3MLO...

_______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/KSUVDP...

_______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ZZZSNI...

Wikipedia's "Fortran" page has descriptions for both Fortran-5 (Data General) and Fortran-V (Control Data). from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran :

Fortran 5 was marketed by Data General Corp in the late 1970s and early 1980s, for the Nova, Eclipse, and MV line of computers. It had an optimizing compiler that was quite good for minicomputers of its time. The language most closely resembles FORTRAN 66.

FORTRAN V was distributed by Control Data Corporation in 1968 for the CDC 6600 series. The language was based upon FORTRAN IV.[64]

A branch for my company has one remaining Solaris box that keeps up a service or two with a ridiculous uptime and they recently built a new facility. In a meeting we were discussing the move plan for their entire IT kit and they asked me about the feasibility of moving the Solaris box across town on an UPS so they wouldn't have to shut it down. I kindly asked them to reconsider because while they might keep power applied for the whole ride it'd be unlikely that the disks would survive the trip. On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 8:58 AM Mike Peckar via WLUG wrote:

Fun Story, Maddog. Around 20 yrs ago I was consulting for Bloomberg in Skillman, NJ, a big Solaris shop. The HP app I was working with bellied up with memory leaks and I suggested they reboot that server. I was told flat out they don't reboot Solaris servers period. They cleaned up the mess and isolated where in the HP code that the pointer was lost, leaving me the not-so-fun task of filing the bug report with HP.

Mike

On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 7:39 PM Jon "maddog" Hall via WLUG < wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote:

...

Tim,

What was the reason for shutting it down?

This reminds me of a story from years ago where a young friend contacted me before a trip to the University of New Hampshire for a Linux LUG meeting.

He asked me if I would go to a particular dorm and knock on the door of what had been his door room. I was to ask if I could unplug the box that was in the corner of the closet in the room. The system had been running for five years in his former dorm room and he had forgotten the login password. He did not want the machine back, just wanted it unplugged.

A young woman answered the door, heard my explanation and let me unplug the machine. "We were afraid to unplug it" she said.

Your machine beat his machine on uptime.

md

On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 5:07 PM Tim Keller via WLUG wrote:

...

I just shutdown a linux machine with 3169 days of uptime! It had userland processes that have been actively running since 2013! Tim.

-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers". _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/PW3MLO...

_______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/KSUVDP...

_______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ZZZSNI...

It you kept it up all of the time, how would you apply updates that require a re-boot? -David On 4/21/2022 9:27 AM, THE HAMMER via WLUG wrote:

So I guess my question is if I'm just running a personal Linux machine at home, what are the advantages or disadvantages to keeping it on, or shutting down during non-use?

-Ron

(I might in the near future use one machine as a home server to share files, so in that case see an advantage to possibly keeping it on 24/7) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* Tim Keller via WLUG *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2022 5:07 PM *To:* Worcester Linux Users' Group General Discussion *Cc:* Tim Keller *Subject:* [WLUG] Uptime! I just shutdown a linux machine with 3169 days of uptime! It had userland processes that have been actively running since 2013! Tim.

-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

_______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list --wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email towlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account:https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings:https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive:https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ZT4LV6...

-- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

This machine was a "ghost ship." It's use had long come and gone and people had moved their stuff off onto new machines. It was running 32bit RHEL 5.5 no patches, no nothing. It was a security risk at this point. To Mike's point, unless there's good change control, you run the danger of having a machine that's not ever going to reboot sensibly. A couple years ago I stumbled upon a linux box that was running an ancient version of mysql.. the database was up, but it was running out of a directory like /u01/mysql/bin The disk /u01 was LONG gone.. but the database continued to run.. it's data was being written off on to a different disk and things worked.. but it was clear that machine would never had rebooted. Tim. On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:06 AM Michael Voorhis via WLUG < wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote:

Additionally if you never reboot, how do you know the machine WILL reboot? How do you know what the system will do after a power failure, etc? Fate will intervene at some point and force you to reboot whether you want to or not, so you should be prepared with the knowledge of how the system will respond to that.

On 4/21/22 09:54, David Glaser via WLUG wrote:

...

It you kept it up all of the time, how would you apply updates that require a re-boot?

_______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/2CNXUV...

-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

Is that really a useful data point? I'm thinking that past reboot performance is not indicative of future returns. On Thu, Apr 21, 2022, 10:06 AM Michael Voorhis via WLUG wrote:

Additionally if you never reboot, how do you know the machine WILL reboot? How do you know what the system will do after a power failure, etc? Fate will intervene at some point and force you to reboot whether you want to or not, so you should be prepared with the knowledge of how the system will respond to that.

On 4/21/22 09:54, David Glaser via WLUG wrote:

...

It you kept it up all of the time, how would you apply updates that require a re-boot?

_______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/2CNXUV...