Hi everybody, Last year around this time, an organization was formed called the Boston User Groups (http://www.bostonusergroups.com). WLUG was invited to participate. As a group, we decided to pay our $50/year membership fee to participate for the first year. Some of you might remember this meeting, where the general consensus was "OK, let's try it for a year and see how it goes". Our yearly membership dues are being requested by BUG. I had some questions about whether or not WLUG should continue its participation in BUG. I had a discussion with the WLUG members who attended the BBQ. Several of those people thought that the discussion should take place among the entire WLUG membership. The timing of BUG events is such that I'd like to settle this issue before our next WLUG meeting (ideally within the next week). Take a look at the BUG webpage as you consider my comments and those of other WLUG members. Please take note of the other groups who are current BUG members. There are 3 Linux groups, a Palm group, a Mac group, and some others, not to mention the wide variety of Microsoft related user groups. Given that Microsoft is a documented monopoly (a court said that, not just me), this distribution of member groups should not be a surprise to anybody. Some of the commentary below assumes familiarity with the contents of the BUG website. My initial question (if I recall correctly) was to wonder about what tangible benefit WLUG received for its $50 expenditure. a) BUG has a link to the WLUG website on its website b) WLUG had a table at last year's MegaMeeting and gave out literature advertising the group, its meetings, etc. c) I met some leaders of other regional user groups while eating free pizza, drinking free soda, and touring the US DataCenters facility in Marlboro, MA. d) I know that we got at least one new WLUG member from the MegaMeeting. Perhaps there were others, or folks who shortly thereafter joined the mailing list, but I have no way to know for sure. The BUG website also has a calendar of group activities onto which WLUG's activities were never placed. The calendar is designed for groups who meet, say, every 2nd Thursday of the month. WLUG's schedule is not as regular as that, and hence our information was not put onto the calendar after two requests by me. Rick Zach is the current BUG president. He recently sent an e-mail to the user group leaders (attached) wherein he describes some of the benefits of BUG membership. I also have personally spoken to Rick to make sure my information about BUG is correct so that I can present it fairly to the WLUG membership. My question to WLUG is: Do we as a group wish to continue our participation in BUG for $50/year ? Later, Andy -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org
I vote YES. It's only $50 and WLUG's cash on hand is well into five figures. ;) If some people feel somewhat bruised by a tangential connection to MS, well that's kind of sad. Clint On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 21:21:20 -0400 Andy Stewart <andystewart@attbi.com> wrote:
Hi everybody,
Last year around this time, an organization was formed called the Boston User Groups (http://www.bostonusergroups.com). WLUG was invited to participate. As a group, we decided to pay our $50/year membership fee to participate for the first year. Some of you might remember this meeting, where the general consensus was "OK, let's try it for a year and see how it goes".
Our yearly membership dues are being requested by BUG. I had some questions about whether or not WLUG should continue its participation in BUG. I had a discussion with the WLUG members who attended the BBQ. Several of those people thought that the discussion should take place among the entire WLUG membership. The timing of BUG events is such that I'd like to settle this issue before our next WLUG meeting (ideally within the next week).
Take a look at the BUG webpage as you consider my comments and those of other WLUG members. Please take note of the other groups who are current BUG members. There are 3 Linux groups, a Palm group, a Mac group, and some others, not to mention the wide variety of Microsoft related user groups. Given that Microsoft is a documented monopoly (a court said that, not just me), this distribution of member groups should not be a surprise to anybody.
Some of the commentary below assumes familiarity with the contents of the BUG website.
My initial question (if I recall correctly) was to wonder about what tangible benefit WLUG received for its $50 expenditure.
a) BUG has a link to the WLUG website on its website
b) WLUG had a table at last year's MegaMeeting and gave out literature advertising the group, its meetings, etc.
c) I met some leaders of other regional user groups while eating free pizza, drinking free soda, and touring the US DataCenters facility in Marlboro, MA.
d) I know that we got at least one new WLUG member from the MegaMeeting. Perhaps there were others, or folks who shortly thereafter joined the mailing list, but I have no way to know for sure.
The BUG website also has a calendar of group activities onto which WLUG's activities were never placed. The calendar is designed for groups who meet, say, every 2nd Thursday of the month. WLUG's schedule is not as regular as that, and hence our information was not put onto the calendar after two requests by me.
Rick Zach is the current BUG president. He recently sent an e-mail to the user group leaders (attached) wherein he describes some of the benefits of BUG membership. I also have personally spoken to Rick to make sure my information about BUG is correct so that I can present it fairly to the WLUG membership.
My question to WLUG is:
Do we as a group wish to continue our participation in BUG for $50/year ?
Later,
Andy
-- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org
On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 12:17:10PM -0400, Clint Moyer wrote:
I vote YES. It's only $50 and WLUG's cash on hand is well into five figures. ;)
If some people feel somewhat bruised by a tangential connection to MS, well that's kind of sad.
Clint
Hey Clint - no fair voting twice ! :) (I got two copies of Clint's post.) My 0.02: Spend the $50. It helps give your organization visibility and a professional cachet. But I don't get a vote since I'm not a member. At least I don't think I'm a member. How do you officially join up ?
I vote no. We received no real benefits from our original 50 dollars spent, they won't list our events on their calendar, and their user group links don't even work through a text browser. That 50 bucks would be much better spent elsewhere (beer and pizza??). ;-) Perhaps people should just address their votes to Andy and not the list? -b
On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:17:10 -0400 "Clint Moyer" <cdmoyer@charter.net> wrote: CM> I vote YES. It's only $50 and WLUG's cash on hand is well CM> into five figures. ;) CM> CM> If some people feel somewhat bruised by a tangential CM> connection to MS, well that's kind of sad. $50 is $50.... Regardless of the actual COST, I'd think the focus is more of "what does BUG do for US?"... Apparently, not too much. Basically, the benefits are: - Other BUG members will know you exist. - We [BUG] have a once-a-year bash to get everyone the chance to see who else is a BUG. - WLUG gives BUG $50. Another poster (forgot the name... sorry.) suggested that the $50 would be better spent paying for an advert in the paper. i'm inclined to agree (although i might lean towards something like the Globe or something like that, not just a college paper). if the matter is still under discussion, i vote "no". -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- William Smith wsmith-at-chezsmith-dot-com Fall River, MA http://www.chezsmith.com The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity. The rest is overhead for the operating system. * TAG! v3.0 *
On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 11:34:17PM -0400, Bill Smith wrote: wsmith> Another poster (forgot the name... sorry.) suggested that the $50 would wsmith> be better spent paying for an advert in the paper. i'm inclined to wsmith> agree (although i might lean towards something like the Globe or wsmith> something like that, not just a college paper). wsmith> wsmith> if the matter is still under discussion, i vote "no". My vote is also "no". $50 isn't worth a broken "Javascript" link (doesn't work in lynx or links) on a web site that can't even put our meeting schedule on their calendar. Why do they have a .com anyway? I'm sure we can think of much better ways to spend $50. I love the idea of the ad in the paper, too. Remember, we can always join at a future date if things change. Right now, though, I don't think we got anything out of our last year's membership. Maybe we can invite one of their folk to speak at an upcoming meeting to try to convince us of why we should re-join. Worcester isn't Boston. Maybe we should start our own WorcesterUserGroups.org :) We are, after all, the second largest city in New England... (kidding...) -- Charles R. Anderson <cra@wpi.edu> / http://angus.ind.wpi.edu/~cra/ PGP Key ID: 49BB5886 Fingerprint: EBA3 A106 7C93 FA07 8E15 3AC2 C367 A0F9 49BB 5886
On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 00:56:35 -0400 "Charles R. Anderson" <cra@WPI.EDU> wrote: CRA> Remember, we can always join at a future date if things change. CRA> Right now, though, I don't think we got anything out of our last CRA> year's membership. Maybe we can invite one of their folk to speak CRA> at an upcoming meeting to try to convince us of why we should CRA> re-join. that is probably a good idea... Andy? CRA> Worcester isn't Boston. Maybe we should start our own CRA> WorcesterUserGroups.org :) We are, after all, the second largest CRA> city in New England... (kidding...) well... i'm in Fall River... whenever i decide to make a meeting, i have something like an hour to drive.... 8\ Fall River != Worcester. <shrug> <g> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- William Smith wsmith-at-chezsmith-dot-com Fall River, MA http://www.chezsmith.com Macho Law prohibits me from admitting I'm wrong. * TAG! v3.0 *
I'm not a member, but I DID work at RCN during that MegaMeeting. Boston User Groups was started as a corporate-sponsored way to get US Datacenters into the User Group scene, as it were. Incidentally, US Datacenters is no longer in that building, IIRC. It sounds to me like the $50 could be better spent in a whole host of ways other than membership in a group for groups that don't interact much. Especially if you can't even get them to put events up on their calendar for your group. Of course, I MIGHT be biased by the fact that they took over the building I worked at for a meeting that they didn't clear with (or notify) any of the other companies OR the management in the building. At least the pizza was good. :)
On Sunday 01 September 2002 04:39 pm, George Metz wrote:
Boston User Groups was started as a corporate-sponsored way to get US Datacenters into the User Group scene, as it were.
I recall meeting the people from US Datacenters at a Boston Linux Unix install fest a few years back. They would periodicly attend BLU meetings. I was not impressed with them. It seems that we get all the exposure we need with google. my vote is no. --brad
Andy> From: Andy Stewart <andystewart@attbi.com> Andy> Andy> Last year around this time, an organization was formed Andy> called the Boston User Groups Andy> Andy> Our yearly membership dues are being requested by BUG. Andy> Andy> Take a look at the BUG webpage... I wonder how many did that, nobody has praised it here. Andy> My initial question was to wonder about what tangible Andy> benefit WLUG received for its $50 expenditure. Andy> Andy> a) BUG has a link to the WLUG website on its website For $5 I will put a link on my website. Does anybody check the BugSite regularly? I found it rather unpleasant, with font too small and javascript to open a new window when you tried to link to one of the member groups. Andy> b) WLUG had a table at last year's MegaMeeting and Andy> gave out literature advertising the group, its Andy> meetings, etc. What would it take to get a table at this meeting? The strongest argument I can think of for sending in the $50 to give a new group a second chance. That is, send the money, go again to the meeting, try again to get on their calendar, but let them know we are unhappy. If we are not going to the only meeting they have in a year, then what is the purpose of sending them money so we can ignore each other for another year? Andy> c) I met some leaders of other regional user groups Andy> while eating free pizza, drinking free soda, and Andy> touring the US DataCenters facility in Marlboro, MA. Fifty bucks is a lot of money for free pizza, especially if someone else eats it. Does the dues money get anyone into the MegaMeeting free? Andy> My question to WLUG is: Andy> Andy> Do we as a group wish to continue our participation in Andy> BUG for $50/year ? Clint> From: "Clint Moyer" <cdmoyer@charter.net> Clint> Clint> If some people feel somewhat bruised by a tangential Clint> connection to MS, well that's kind of sad. The question is not whether some of the User Groups are connected to MS, but whether any of them are connected to Worcester or Linux. jkinz> From: jkinz@rcn.com jkinz> jkinz> My 0.02: Spend the $50. It helps give your jkinz> organization visibility and a professional cachet. But how much visibility do we get? A link on a web page is not the cover of the Rolling Stone. As for professional cachet, that is an expensive cologne that I only wear when I am getting paid. jkinz> But I don't get a vote since I'm not a member. At jkinz> least I don't think I'm a member. jkinz> jkinz> How do you officially join up ? I don't know either. I don't think there is an official membership list. Maybe voting on this topic should be confined to people who can say that (the dollars put in the collection box minus the soda cans emptied at the meetings) is positive. From: "Brian J. Conway" <bconway@alum.wpi.edu> Brian> Brian> I vote no. We received no real benefits from our Brian> original 50 dollars spent, they won't list our events Brian> on their calendar, and their user group links don't Brian> even work through a text browser. That 50 bucks Brian> would be much better spent elsewhere (beer and Brian> pizza??). Brian> Perhaps people should just address their votes to Brian> Andy and not the list? A vote with no discussion of the issue is a meaningless ritual. We don't even have an official list of voting members. I think the discussion is more important than the outcome. GM> From: "George Metz" <wolfstar@shadownet.wox.org> GM> GM> I'm not a member, but I DID work at RCN during that GM> MegaMeeting. GM> GM> Boston User Groups was started as a corporate-sponsored GM> way to get US Datacenters into the User Group scene, as GM> it were. I don't know what a US Datacenter is, but that doesn't sound like it means they were started to help us. GM> Incidentally, US Datacenters is no longer in that GM> building, IIRC. This years MegaMeeting is not in the same place as last year, I think. GM> Of course, I MIGHT be biased by the fact that they took GM> over the building I worked at for a meeting that they GM> didn't clear with (or notify) any of the other companies GM> OR the management in the building. That doesn't sound very professional. Andy> Unless I hear otherwise, my plan is to inform Rick of Andy> our departure from BUG within the next few days. I Andy> currently have no plans to have a WLUG presence at the Andy> MegaMeeting, but I'm open to hearing different Andy> opinions (if any). Well I suppose it would be polite to let him know that the check may not be in the mail. But since membership seems to have no effect at all, except they put a semi-broken link from their website to ours, there is no hurry to quit either. I checked the web pages cited in Rick's message, mostly to check that the link was valid after I re-edited back to Ascii... Dvorak> John C. Dvorak raves on: Dvorak> Dvorak> The industry has recently stagnated as market Dvorak> penetration has stopped dead, How is this possible with all the great deals on Viagra that come through the Internet every day!? He goes on to taunt the marketing departments of several very large corporations for failing to throw money at "users groups". He may be right, although he gets paid the same for being wrong. In either case it's not my problem. WPI gives us a place to meet, and an internet connection. (do I have that right?) This is just the support we need. I am glad we have no corporate sponsor sending marketing droids to hijack our meetings. Rich's repeated references to "aggressive promotion" and "increased visibility" also leave me cold. If I had just spent $3000 to rent a room for the evening I might care about that, but I wasn't that stupid. I also checked the web page for the MegaMeeting, although I did not expect I would want to drive all the way into Boston for it. When I saw that it was to be in Framingham, I changed my mind and thought it might be worth dropping in to see what's happening. Then I saw they are charging ten dollars admission. In that case, I want to know what's happening before I blow my weeks allowance. I could see Spiderman for that! The main attraction is <b> Bob Davis</b>, former CEO of Lycos and Terra Lycos, and currently a venture partner at Highland Capital Partners, will present <i>Street Smart Lessons from the Front Lines of Business</i>. Bob will also be available following the presentation for a book signing of <i>Speed Is Life</i> Or in other words, unemployed yet suspiciously rich guy in suit, who thinks he's a technology guru even though he could not write the device driver for a lightbulb, promotes himself, his book, and his plan for YOU to get RICH using the revolutionary power of Positive Thinking^W^W The Internet^W^W buying his advice. The more I see, the less I feel I have in common with these people. Maybe we would have more fun joining with the Northampton Homebrew Beer Filter Users Group. I have squelched the HTML which adds nothing much to the text. BUG> ---------- Forwarded Message ----------
BUG> Subject: An update to all user group leaders... BUG> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 14:18:34 -0400 BUG> From: Rick Zach <rzach@bostonusergroups.com> BUG> To: members@bostonusergroups.com
BUG> Our annual user group MegaMeeting-III is near! Wed, Sept-25
BUG> Sheraton Tara in Framingham, MA BUG> Wednesday, September 25 from 6:30 - 9:30 PM BUG> http://www.BostonUserGroups.com/MegaMeeting
BUG> To all user group leaders:
BUG> Boston User Groups is now almost one year old (at least BUG> as a true non-profit corporate entity) and BUG> MegaMeeting-III is just around the corner. Our value BUG> proposition TO you and our expectations OF you as a BUG> user group leader are quite simple:
BUG> Boston User Groups' value proposition TO you: BUG> * Greatly increase your user group's visibility to the public BUG> * Help promote, increase and cross pollinate your user group BUG> membership with other groups BUG> * Assist to provide speakers via BUG web site awareness BUG> * Provide an annual MegaMeeting for face-to-face BUG> networking and exposure
BUG> Boston User Groups expectation OF you as a user group leader BUG> * Greatly increase your User Group's visibility to the public BUG> by promoting BUG and it's other user groups BUG> * Have a link on your home page or other readily visible BUG> location on your web site back to BUG (again to increase BUG> mutual awareness) BUG> * Promote the MegaMeeting to your group to increase our BUG> mutual awareness
BUG> As you can see, even BUG's expectations OF you are BUG> solely to help promote all user groups which certainly BUG> includes you. I would like to leave you with two BUG> thoughts and a "call to action":
BUG> 1) Like your own user group, Boston User Groups is BUG> mostly funded by out-of-pocket personal donations of BUG> it's User Group leadership. In the case of BUG> MegaMeeting-III, we could not locate a free facility of BUG> adequate size and location so certain people fronted BUG> about $3,000 for room rental in the expectation of BUG> re-covering the costs by renewed BUG/UG leader BUG> memberships, door admission and a few corporate BUG> sponsorships. We are VERY non-profit.
BUG> 2) I ask you to please help to aggressively promote the BUG> upcoming MegaMeeting and BUG. In the process, you will BUG> be promoting your own group!
BUG> MegaMeeting-III Chairperson Brad Dinerman will be BUG> following up with a "call to action" email with BUG> specifics on up-front cash costs to you (none) and how BUG> to help promote the MegaMeeting and your own group!
BUG> Please look for Brad's email coming soon.
BUG> And finally:
BUG> Please note a recent article by John C. Dvorak on the death of BUG> User Groups and the few glimmers of light out there. As a BUG> united group of groups, we may be one of those few glimmers. BUG> Please help us to help each other!
BUG> The URL is BUG> http://www.pcmag.com/print_article/0,3048,a=29639,00.asp
BUG> ______________________________________ BUG> Rick Zach, President BUG> Boston User Groups, Inc. BUG> cel: 508-395-8730
HI Everybody, I've enjoyed sitting back for a couple of days, resting my carpal tunnels, and reading the opinions of the WLUG membership. I would like to note that I have expressed WLUG's general displeasure with BUG to the president of BUG, Rick Zach. He told me that the calendar issue would be cleared up if we chose to renew our membership. Clint Moyer is quite correct when he points out that WLUG can afford the $50 if we so choose, but unfortunately we're not at five figures in the bank (unless you count the two figures for cents). :-) Certainly, if we did decide to renew, I would attend any/all BUG meetings, insure that WLUG had a presence at the MegaMeeting, etc. I did this last year after we paid our initial $50 membership fee. I'll sit back a bit longer and wait for any other comments from WLUG members on this topic. I'll probably close the topic by this weekend, unless the discussion is lively at that time. Later, Andy -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group Worcester, MA USA http://www.wlug.org
On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 21:22:25 -0400 Andy Stewart <andystewart@attbi.com> wrote: AS> I would like to note that I have expressed WLUG's general AS> displeasure with BUG to the president of BUG, Rick Zach. He told me AS> that the calendar issue would be cleared up if we chose to renew our AS> membership. they'll fix our link issue if we choose to renew? sounds almost like a hostage situation.... 8\ AS> Clint Moyer is quite correct when he points out that WLUG can afford AS> the $50 if we so choose, but unfortunately we're not at five figures AS> in the bank (unless you count the two figures for cents). :-) all the more reason to watch the pennies... AS> Certainly, if we did decide to renew, I would attend any/all BUG AS> meetings, insure that WLUG had a presence at the MegaMeeting, etc. AS> I did this last year after we paid our initial $50 membership fee. that's good to SOME extent, since it pretty-much gives us visibility, but would it be worth the money? AS> I'll sit back a bit longer and wait for any other comments from WLUG AS> members on this topic. I'll probably close the topic by this AS> weekend, unless the discussion is lively at that time. i certainly hope others chime in... i've already cast my "vote"... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- William Smith wsmith-at-chezsmith-dot-com Fall River, MA http://www.chezsmith.com Wherever you go, there you are. * TAG! v3.0 *
participants (10)
-
Andy Stewart -
Bill Smith -
brad -
Brian J. Conway -
Charles R. Anderson -
Clint Moyer -
George Metz -
jkinz＠rcn.com -
Keith Wright -
Stephen C. Daukas