RE: [Wlug] For discussion: A Worthy LUG project? (was gmail invit es)
I don't see where hosting would much of a problem at all. The trick is to charge for it. WLUG members who wanted an account on the box would each pay in a couple bucks a month and that money would be used to pay to host the box. If somebody had a decent speakeasy type (allows servers, has decent bandwidth) account, that money could be used to pay the electric bill for the box(s), add capacity, etc. Then you host an webpage,distro respository,irc channel, etc. off of it. Tim. -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Haines [mailto:chaines@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:04 AM To: Worcester Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Wlug] For discussion: A Worthy LUG project? (was gmail invit es) I'd definitely be interested, but I agree, hosting would be the big issue. Chuck On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:03:27 -0400, Martin, Eric <martine@worc.k12.ma.us> wrote:
I like the idea, could be fun! However, I think hosting would be the biggest hump...
-----Original Message----- From: Bob George [mailto:mailings02@ttlexceeded.com] Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 4:55 PM To: Worcester Linux Users Group Subject: [Wlug] For discussion: A Worthy LUG project? (was gmail invites)
Frank Sweetser wrote:
[...] Is there a benefit to having a gmail account, other than the free space?
Gmail actually is pretty neat. The whole archive and search vs folders takes a little getting used to, but I think they implemented it pretty nicely. It ends up giving you a very flexible view of your email archives.
Oh yeah, and it's about an order of magnitutde faster than any other webmail service I've tried =)
As a long time Linux enthusiast, I've never quite understood the thrill of having 1GB of my personal data stored on someone else's server, much less on one that is hosted by a company that -- while mostly playing nice now -- reserves the right to do whatever with that data later.
I've also not understood why that would be any more attractive than the building of a (better, faster, bigger) server of my own, particularly given the wealth of tools available to us GPL.
On the BLU list recently, there was much discussion about building a cluster, but plans stalled when the reality of power and HVAC were detailed. However, hosting a box or two somewhere didn't seem to be an issue.
So... For the tech-minded but still willing to store personal stuff outside, wouldn't a secure, private (as in gpg) and shared Gmail alternative make a good LUG project?
I know many folks are looking for ways to get experience doing real-world things, and enough of us probably are interested in specific aspects of this to be involved at varying levels. Others may have hardware available for dontation.
So... 1.) Is there interest in something like this 2.) Where could it be housed/hosted and what would it cost?
Advantages I see are: 1.) A cool LUG project. I haven't heard of anyone doing this, and it makes for a nice "Gmail? Hah!" response at techie gatherings. 2.) A good hands-on project for the curious (apache, webmail, gpg/pgp, spamassassin, system hardening, procmail, php/whatever, mysql, etc.) 3.) We can address Gmail shortcomings 4.) We can enhance security and privacy (gpg/pgp, encrypted data and other options come to mind) 5.) We can allow users more direct (and effective) spam control (spamassassin, milters come to mind -- allow each user more control!) 6.) We can allow POP/IMAP access to/from the server (secure SMTP?) 7.) A good place to store LUG files etc. (be good now) 8.) Cool WLUG domain names!
Disadvantages abound of course: 1.) Time - Effort to get started, and over the hump 2.) Money - Hosting primarily 3.) Support - Who'll fix it 4.) Scalability - Will it be killed by success? How much room can be allocated per-user? How big of a box before it buckles?
_______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
-- Chuck Haines chaines@gmail.com ------------------------------------------- Tau Kappa Epsilon Fraternity WPI Class of 2005 ------------------------------------------- AIM: CyberGrex YIM: CyberGrex_27 ICQ: 3707881 ------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
Comparing it to a gmail account, it's the development time that's an issue. Google has spent a lot of time, and a lot of money getting a solution as good as gmail is. To date, I've never used a better email client whether web-based or not. Just whipping together free software will not give an equivilant solution. Comparing it to hotmail plus a gig of storage... sure, it's easy to beat that. -Marc On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:11:46 -0400, Keller, Tim <tim.keller@stratus.com> wrote:
I don't see where hosting would much of a problem at all. The trick is to charge for it. WLUG members who wanted an account on the box would each pay in a couple bucks a month and that money would be used to pay to host the box. If somebody had a decent speakeasy type (allows servers, has decent bandwidth) account, that money could be used to pay the electric bill for the box(s), add capacity, etc. Then you host an webpage,distro respository,irc channel, etc. off of it.
Tim.
-----Original Message----- From: Chuck Haines [mailto:chaines@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:04 AM To: Worcester Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Wlug] For discussion: A Worthy LUG project? (was gmail invit es)
I'd definitely be interested, but I agree, hosting would be the big issue.
Chuck
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:03:27 -0400, Martin, Eric <martine@worc.k12.ma.us> wrote:
I like the idea, could be fun! However, I think hosting would be the biggest hump...
-----Original Message----- From: Bob George [mailto:mailings02@ttlexceeded.com] Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 4:55 PM To: Worcester Linux Users Group Subject: [Wlug] For discussion: A Worthy LUG project? (was gmail invites)
Frank Sweetser wrote:
[...] Is there a benefit to having a gmail account, other than the free space?
Gmail actually is pretty neat. The whole archive and search vs folders takes a little getting used to, but I think they implemented it pretty nicely. It ends up giving you a very flexible view of your email archives.
Oh yeah, and it's about an order of magnitutde faster than any other webmail service I've tried =)
As a long time Linux enthusiast, I've never quite understood the thrill of having 1GB of my personal data stored on someone else's server, much less on one that is hosted by a company that -- while mostly playing nice now -- reserves the right to do whatever with that data later.
I've also not understood why that would be any more attractive than the building of a (better, faster, bigger) server of my own, particularly given the wealth of tools available to us GPL.
On the BLU list recently, there was much discussion about building a cluster, but plans stalled when the reality of power and HVAC were detailed. However, hosting a box or two somewhere didn't seem to be an issue.
So... For the tech-minded but still willing to store personal stuff outside, wouldn't a secure, private (as in gpg) and shared Gmail alternative make a good LUG project?
I know many folks are looking for ways to get experience doing real-world things, and enough of us probably are interested in specific aspects of this to be involved at varying levels. Others may have hardware available for dontation.
So... 1.) Is there interest in something like this 2.) Where could it be housed/hosted and what would it cost?
Advantages I see are: 1.) A cool LUG project. I haven't heard of anyone doing this, and it makes for a nice "Gmail? Hah!" response at techie gatherings. 2.) A good hands-on project for the curious (apache, webmail, gpg/pgp, spamassassin, system hardening, procmail, php/whatever, mysql, etc.) 3.) We can address Gmail shortcomings 4.) We can enhance security and privacy (gpg/pgp, encrypted data and other options come to mind) 5.) We can allow users more direct (and effective) spam control (spamassassin, milters come to mind -- allow each user more control!) 6.) We can allow POP/IMAP access to/from the server (secure SMTP?) 7.) A good place to store LUG files etc. (be good now) 8.) Cool WLUG domain names!
Disadvantages abound of course: 1.) Time - Effort to get started, and over the hump 2.) Money - Hosting primarily 3.) Support - Who'll fix it 4.) Scalability - Will it be killed by success? How much room can be allocated per-user? How big of a box before it buckles?
_______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
-- Chuck Haines chaines@gmail.com ------------------------------------------- Tau Kappa Epsilon Fraternity WPI Class of 2005 ------------------------------------------- AIM: CyberGrex YIM: CyberGrex_27 ICQ: 3707881 -------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
Marc Hughes wrote:
Comparing it to a gmail account, it's the development time that's an issue. Google has spent a lot of time, and a lot of money getting a solution as good as gmail is.
Agreed that "blowing away gmail" is shooting way too high. I'd envisioned it as more of addressing the "I love gmail, but I wish it would do THIS", serving ONLY on a small, focused community of users (i.e. a LUG). The searchability etc. offered by gmail is going to be tough to match, but I suspect there are some interesting things that could be done with bayes etc. as individual sub-projects that would be interesting enough.
To date, I've never used a better email client whether web-based or not. Just whipping together free software will not give an equivilant solution.
Agreed. I see challenges on multiple levels. Which is exactly why I see it as a possible GROUP activity, where hopefully everyone's focused on the parts they enjoy. - Bob
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004, Keller, Tim wrote:
I don't see where hosting would much of a problem at all. The trick is to charge for it. WLUG members who wanted an account on the box would each pay in a couple bucks a month and that money would be used to pay to host the box. If somebody had a decent speakeasy type (allows servers, has decent bandwidth) account, that money could be used to pay the electric bill for the box(s), add capacity, etc. Then you host an webpage,distro respository,irc channel, etc. off of it.
Tim.
Thus answering, with multiple valid points, the original question of why someone would want to use Gmail. Thank you, Tim. ;) -b
Keller, Tim wrote:
I don't see where hosting would much of a problem at all. The trick is to charge for it. WLUG members who wanted an account on the box would each pay in a couple bucks a month and that money would be used to pay to host the box.
I'd hope that would be Plan B. Obviously, it won't be free. A worst-case, most limiting scenario would be using a virtual private server/UML arrangement, though that would only scale so far. Still, at $20 or so per month, I don't think every user would have to commit. (I realize that places rather substantial limits on the size of the thing.)
If somebody had a decent speakeasy type (allows servers, has decent bandwidth) account, that money could be used to pay the electric bill for the box(s), add capacity, etc. Then you host an webpage,distro respository,irc channel, etc. off of it.
That's actually an option I hadn't thought of, but I suppose it could be used for prototyping. As to the other features, that's where the design goals would be critical. "Feature creep" could be deadly! - Bob
participants (4)
-
Bob George -
Brian J. Conway -
Keller, Tim -
Marc Hughes