Unstable Linux in recent releases
HI gang, I've read an awful lot of posts recently describing freezing or hanging systems in very recent versions of several Linux distributions. Unfortunately, I got one of them - Kubuntu 10.10 (I *knew* I shouldn't have upgraded from the very stable SuSE 10.1, except that it was quite old). My system arbitrarily hangs/freezes at unpredictable intervals. Sometimes I can make it happen 2 minutes after a reboot, and other times it takes a few days, but invariably, it does occur. I can usually induce it by doing something semi-stressful to the video, like watching something via mplayer, but it doesn't always occur. The postings I've seen appear to describe a wide variety of hardware and software configurations, and nobody can seem to find any error data in any log file. What I can't find is the solution, and I've googled extensively. Has anybody found anything online that talks about some very recently discovered bug and its fix that would cure the problem? Thanks! Andy -- Andy Stewart (KB1OIQ) Founder: Worcester Linux Users' Group Founder: Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group President: PART of Westford, MA (WB1GOF)
I had a problem a while ago and most of the folks here told me it was probably my wireless drivers. Since I've switched to the ath5k FOSS drivers as opposed to madwifi I've had no problems so I'm inclined to think that was the problem. If you're running wireless, try leaving it up overnight with the wireless drivers unloaded. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Andy Stewart <andystewart@comcast.net>wrote:
HI gang,
I've read an awful lot of posts recently describing freezing or hanging systems in very recent versions of several Linux distributions.
Unfortunately, I got one of them - Kubuntu 10.10 (I *knew* I shouldn't have upgraded from the very stable SuSE 10.1, except that it was quite old).
My system arbitrarily hangs/freezes at unpredictable intervals. Sometimes I can make it happen 2 minutes after a reboot, and other times it takes a few days, but invariably, it does occur.
I can usually induce it by doing something semi-stressful to the video, like watching something via mplayer, but it doesn't always occur.
The postings I've seen appear to describe a wide variety of hardware and software configurations, and nobody can seem to find any error data in any log file.
What I can't find is the solution, and I've googled extensively. Has anybody found anything online that talks about some very recently discovered bug and its fix that would cure the problem?
Thanks!
Andy
-- Andy Stewart (KB1OIQ) Founder: Worcester Linux Users' Group Founder: Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group President: PART of Westford, MA (WB1GOF) _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
-- Eric Martin
On 01/15/2011 09:20 PM, Eric Martin wrote:
I had a problem a while ago and most of the folks here told me it was probably my wireless drivers. Since I've switched to the ath5k FOSS drivers as opposed to madwifi I've had no problems so I'm inclined to think that was the problem. If you're running wireless, try leaving it up overnight with the wireless drivers unloaded.
HI Eric, The computer in question is my server, which doesn't have wireless. It has been a rock for 4-5 years (until I upgraded to Kubuntu 10.10). I'll keep googling and if I find something, I'll let everybody know. Thanks, Andy -- Andy Stewart (KB1OIQ) Founder: Worcester Linux Users' Group Founder: Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group President: PART of Westford, MA (WB1GOF)
Funny, I've had crashes on and off for a while now. However, I believe it is related to my wireless driver (ironically ath5k, perhaps if I get newer drivers it will fix the problem?). I have the driver unloaded for a week and no problems. In another week I'll feel safe concluding it was the driver. I have another computer that sometimes crashes during shutdown right before power off. It doesn't hurt anything except that I have to press the power button - so I don't much care. I haven't had any problems with any of my other systems (all running *ubuntu 10.04) nor heard any complaints about the new *ubuntu 10.10 crashing. I think it pays to stick with the long term support releases as they are supposed to be more stable - 8.04 and 10.04. Probably doesn't help much, just thinking our loud. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 10:23 PM, Andy Stewart <andystewart@comcast.net> wrote:
On 01/15/2011 09:20 PM, Eric Martin wrote:
I had a problem a while ago and most of the folks here told me it was probably my wireless drivers. Since I've switched to the ath5k FOSS drivers as opposed to madwifi I've had no problems so I'm inclined to think that was the problem. If you're running wireless, try leaving it up overnight with the wireless drivers unloaded.
HI Eric,
The computer in question is my server, which doesn't have wireless. It has been a rock for 4-5 years (until I upgraded to Kubuntu 10.10).
I'll keep googling and if I find something, I'll let everybody know.
Thanks,
Andy
-- Andy Stewart (KB1OIQ) Founder: Worcester Linux Users' Group Founder: Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group President: PART of Westford, MA (WB1GOF) _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
"Andy" == Andy Stewart <andystewart@comcast.net> writes:
Andy> On 01/15/2011 09:20 PM, Eric Martin wrote:
I had a problem a while ago and most of the folks here told me it was probably my wireless drivers. Since I've switched to the ath5k FOSS drivers as opposed to madwifi I've had no problems so I'm inclined to think that was the problem. If you're running wireless, try leaving it up overnight with the wireless drivers unloaded.
Andy> The computer in question is my server, which doesn't have Andy> wireless. It has been a rock for 4-5 years (until I upgraded to Andy> Kubuntu 10.10). Try upgrading to 2.6.37 from Kernel org (fakeroot make deb-pkg) using your distributions .config file should let you know if it's something in Linux which is screwing you over. And what are you doing watching movies on your server for! It should be a nice headless box you just SSH into at need. *grin* But first Andy, you need to give us more details. Does the entire box freeze or just the graphics? Can you hit Alt-SysRq-T or other combinations to get the system to give you crash info? Can you have an SSH session open from another system where you tail -f /var/log/messages and /var/log/system and dmesg so you can see if something pops up? We need more details before we can help! John
On 01/18/2011 09:42 PM, John Stoffel wrote:
Andy> The computer in question is my server, which doesn't have Andy> wireless. It has been a rock for 4-5 years (until I upgraded to Andy> Kubuntu 10.10).
Try upgrading to 2.6.37 from Kernel org (fakeroot make deb-pkg) using your distributions .config file should let you know if it's something in Linux which is screwing you over.
And what are you doing watching movies on your server for! It should be a nice headless box you just SSH into at need. *grin*
But first Andy, you need to give us more details. Does the entire box freeze or just the graphics? Can you hit Alt-SysRq-T or other combinations to get the system to give you crash info?
Can you have an SSH session open from another system where you tail -f /var/log/messages and /var/log/system and dmesg so you can see if something pops up?
We need more details before we can help!
John
HI John, I am running 2.6.35-24-generic from Kubuntu 10.10. I'll see if I can upgrade the kernel this weekend. When the boxes freezes, I cannot ssh into the box. I cannot switch to a text console. It is totally stuck, and the caps lock and scroll lock leds are blinking on the keyboard. I haven't tried the Alt-SysRq key sequence yet...I believe that I have to enable that functionality. The trick you mentioned about running tail -f /var/log/messages from another system is a good one that I had not considered! I'll try that also. Until I get more data, I suspect there isn't much anybody can do to help, but I do appreciate these suggestions for how to gather some of that data. More news later, Andy -- Andy Stewart (KB1OIQ) Founder: Worcester Linux Users' Group Founder: Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group President: PART of Westford, MA (WB1GOF)
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 11:53:41PM -0500, Andy Stewart wrote:
When the boxes freezes, I cannot ssh into the box. I cannot switch to a text console. It is totally stuck, and the caps lock and scroll lock leds are blinking on the keyboard.
Blinking caps lock & sroll lock means there is a kernel panic. Can you set up a serial console or netconsole in advance to capture the panic messages to another system when it crashes? http://www.av8n.com/computer/htm/kernel-lockup.htm http://www.novell.com/communities/node/4753/netconsole-howto-send-kernel-boo...
I haven't tried the Alt-SysRq key sequence yet...I believe that I have to enable that functionality.
in /etc/sysctl.conf: # Controls the System Request debugging functionality of the kernel kernel.sysrq = 1 If you set up a serial console, you should be able to send a break key to access the System Request functionality in the same way but over the serial port.
The trick you mentioned about running tail -f /var/log/messages from another system is a good one that I had not considered! I'll try that also.
I doubt that will work if there is a kernel panic.
Chuck Anderson <cra@WPI.EDU> writes:
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 11:53:41PM -0500, Andy Stewart wrote:
When the boxes freezes, I cannot ssh into the box. I cannot switch to a text console. It is totally stuck, and the caps lock and scroll lock leds are blinking on the keyboard.
Blinking caps lock & sroll lock means there is a kernel panic. Can you set up a serial console or netconsole in advance to capture the panic messages to another system when it crashes?
http://www.av8n.com/computer/htm/kernel-lockup.htm
http://www.novell.com/communities/node/4753/netconsole-howto-send-kernel-boo...
Or setup kdump to capture a vmcore. Cheers, Jeff
"Chuck" == Chuck Anderson <cra@WPI.EDU> writes:
Chuck> On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 11:53:41PM -0500, Andy Stewart wrote:
When the boxes freezes, I cannot ssh into the box. I cannot switch to a text console. It is totally stuck, and the caps lock and scroll lock leds are blinking on the keyboard.
Chuck> Blinking caps lock & sroll lock means there is a kernel Chuck> panic. Can you set up a serial console or netconsole in advance Chuck> to capture the panic messages to another system when it Chuck> crashes? THat would work the best I suspect. Chuck> If you set up a serial console, you should be able to send a break key Chuck> to access the System Request functionality in the same way but over Chuck> the serial port.
The trick you mentioned about running tail -f /var/log/messages from another system is a good one that I had not considered! I'll try that also.
Chuck> I doubt that will work if there is a kernel panic. It's not that it will work *after* the kernel panic, but it will hopefully log to another system and messages dumped to the console when the crash happens. You might also try going into your BIOS and setting the system defaults, esp if you tweaked them in any way or shape previously. I've also found that: cd /tmp wget http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.37.tar.bz2 tar xjf linux-2.6.37.tar.bz2 cd linux-<whatever> cp /boot/config-<current kernel> .config fakeroot make deb-pkg works well as an upgrade path from a vendor kernel using Ubuntu. Not always mind you, but usually. Good luck, John
On Jan 18, 2011, at 11:53 PM, Andy Stewart <andystewart@comcast.net> wrote:
On 01/18/2011 09:42 PM, John Stoffel wrote:
Andy> The computer in question is my server, which doesn't have Andy> wireless. It has been a rock for 4-5 years (until I upgraded to Andy> Kubuntu 10.10).
Try upgrading to 2.6.37 from Kernel org (fakeroot make deb-pkg) using your distributions .config file should let you know if it's something in Linux which is screwing you over.
And what are you doing watching movies on your server for! It should be a nice headless box you just SSH into at need. *grin*
But first Andy, you need to give us more details. Does the entire box freeze or just the graphics? Can you hit Alt-SysRq-T or other combinations to get the system to give you crash info?
Can you have an SSH session open from another system where you tail -f /var/log/messages and /var/log/system and dmesg so you can see if something pops up?
We need more details before we can help!
John
HI John,
I am running 2.6.35-24-generic from Kubuntu 10.10. I'll see if I can upgrade the kernel this weekend.
When the boxes freezes, I cannot ssh into the box. I cannot switch to a text console. It is totally stuck, and the caps lock and scroll lock leds are blinking on the keyboard.
I haven't tried the Alt-SysRq key sequence yet...I believe that I have to enable that functionality.
Probably won't work. Das Blinkenlights meanen der kernel panick, and der keyboard probably will be schtuck. Check kerneloops.org and the Linux bugtracker if you rule out the ATI driver. I would just use VGA mode to check that.
The trick you mentioned about running tail -f /var/log/messages from another system is a good one that I had not considered! I'll try that also.
Until I get more data, I suspect there isn't much anybody can do to help, but I do appreciate these suggestions for how to gather some of that data.
More news later,
Andy
-- Andy Stewart (KB1OIQ) Founder: Worcester Linux Users' Group Founder: Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group President: PART of Westford, MA (WB1GOF) _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
It seems to me from reading and from experience that there is some problem with 10.10 (for me with MythBuntu) and it does seem to center around video and I am not using wireless at all on the several configurations of hardware that I've tried (nothing very new HT P4's and 5200 series NVidia graphics, but always worked great prior to this). I am not very experienced so I can't offer anything but this anecdotal evidence. -- David P. Connell "Watch where you're going; remember where you've been."
Recent kernel/HAL upgrades have caused gentoo to not see my keyboard. I have to boot older kernels to get it working. Could be a problem with my kernel configuration though. Sent from my android wireless device. On Jan 16, 2011 4:22 AM, "David P. Connell" <davec99@charter.net> wrote: It seems to me from reading and from experience that there is some problem with 10.10 (for me with MythBuntu) and it does seem to center around video and I am not using wireless at all on the several configurations of hardware that I've tried (nothing very new HT P4's and 5200 series NVidia graphics, but always worked great prior to this). I am not very experienced so I can't offer anything but this anecdotal evidence. -- David P. Connell "Watch where you're going; remember where you've been." _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wl...
Have you tried the nonfree nvidia drivers? Or perhaps the free ones if the nonfree are in use? Sent from my android wireless device. On Jan 16, 2011 4:22 AM, "David P. Connell" <davec99@charter.net> wrote: It seems to me from reading and from experience that there is some problem with 10.10 (for me with MythBuntu) and it does seem to center around video and I am not using wireless at all on the several configurations of hardware that I've tried (nothing very new HT P4's and 5200 series NVidia graphics, but always worked great prior to this). I am not very experienced so I can't offer anything but this anecdotal evidence. -- David P. Connell "Watch where you're going; remember where you've been." _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wl...
On 01/16/2011 06:25 AM, Jason Couture wrote:
Have you tried the nonfree nvidia drivers? Or perhaps the free ones if the nonfree are in use?
Hi Jason, My graphics chip is the ATI Radeon RV280 (Radeon 9200 PRO), and it is running the Free Software driver. There is nothing proprietary in use for the video. I don't generally like to use the proprietary drivers, but perhaps I could try it to see if it makes any difference. Thanks, Andy -- Andy Stewart (KB1OIQ) Founder: Worcester Linux Users' Group Founder: Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group President: PART of Westford, MA (WB1GOF)
Andy, I would suspect the ATI drivers as the source of your instability. I have been having a lot of trouble with Kubuntu 10.10 on my T60 at work. While I haven't had full interface freezes, I get severe artifacting with an external monitor and have had random X crashes and application lockups. This solution cleared some things up for me, but it breaks setting the resolution via the preference pane: http://www.niccolofavari.com/ubuntu-10.04-lucid-issues-with-external-monitor... -Adam On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Andy Stewart <andystewart@comcast.net>wrote:
On 01/16/2011 06:25 AM, Jason Couture wrote:
Have you tried the nonfree nvidia drivers? Or perhaps the free ones if the nonfree are in use?
Hi Jason,
My graphics chip is the ATI Radeon RV280 (Radeon 9200 PRO), and it is running the Free Software driver. There is nothing proprietary in use for the video. I don't generally like to use the proprietary drivers, but perhaps I could try it to see if it makes any difference.
Thanks,
Andy
-- Andy Stewart (KB1OIQ) Founder: Worcester Linux Users' Group Founder: Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group President: PART of Westford, MA (WB1GOF) _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
Andy, Try the blob driver, also try using an older driver (free or nonfree), and also make sure to try an older kernel. There are always regressions. On Jan 16, 2011, at 8:45 AM, Andy Stewart <andystewart@comcast.net> wrote:
On 01/16/2011 06:25 AM, Jason Couture wrote:
Have you tried the nonfree nvidia drivers? Or perhaps the free ones if the nonfree are in use?
Hi Jason,
My graphics chip is the ATI Radeon RV280 (Radeon 9200 PRO), and it is running the Free Software driver. There is nothing proprietary in use for the video. I don't generally like to use the proprietary drivers, but perhaps I could try it to see if it makes any difference.
Thanks,
Andy
-- Andy Stewart (KB1OIQ) Founder: Worcester Linux Users' Group Founder: Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group President: PART of Westford, MA (WB1GOF) _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
Has anybody who is experiencing these problems tried 'ssh'ing into the box? It would help you figure out if it's really locked up or if it's the display server. Also, ctrl-alt-backspace was disabled on Ubuntu, maybe try enableing it and waiting for the next freeze... You can also use the Magic SysRq Key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key Look up 'K' and make sure that it's all set up and wait for the next freeze... Randall Mason On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Andy Stewart <andystewart@comcast.net> wrote:
On 01/16/2011 06:25 AM, Jason Couture wrote:
Have you tried the nonfree nvidia drivers? Or perhaps the free ones if the nonfree are in use?
Hi Jason,
My graphics chip is the ATI Radeon RV280 (Radeon 9200 PRO), and it is running the Free Software driver. There is nothing proprietary in use for the video. I don't generally like to use the proprietary drivers, but perhaps I could try it to see if it makes any difference.
Thanks,
Andy
-- Andy Stewart (KB1OIQ) Founder: Worcester Linux Users' Group Founder: Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group President: PART of Westford, MA (WB1GOF) _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
switching VTs still works on Ubuntu, you can just do C-A-F1 and get a tty. however sometimes this still doesn't work if X is really stuck. sad that such a thing can happen on linux. On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Randall Mason <clashthebunny@gmail.com> wrote:
Has anybody who is experiencing these problems tried 'ssh'ing into the box? It would help you figure out if it's really locked up or if it's the display server.
Also, ctrl-alt-backspace was disabled on Ubuntu, maybe try enableing it and waiting for the next freeze...
You can also use the Magic SysRq Key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key
Look up 'K' and make sure that it's all set up and wait for the next freeze...
Randall Mason
On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Andy Stewart <andystewart@comcast.net> wrote:
On 01/16/2011 06:25 AM, Jason Couture wrote:
Have you tried the nonfree nvidia drivers? Or perhaps the free ones if the nonfree are in use?
Hi Jason,
My graphics chip is the ATI Radeon RV280 (Radeon 9200 PRO), and it is running the Free Software driver. There is nothing proprietary in use for the video. I don't generally like to use the proprietary drivers, but perhaps I could try it to see if it makes any difference.
Thanks,
Andy
-- Andy Stewart (KB1OIQ) Founder: Worcester Linux Users' Group Founder: Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group President: PART of Westford, MA (WB1GOF) _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
_______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
participants (12)
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Adam Keck -
Andy Stewart -
Chuck Anderson -
David P. Connell -
Eric Martin -
James Gray -
Jason Couture -
Jeff Moyer -
John Stoffel -
Jorden M -
Jorden Mauro
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Randall Mason