PS: This evening, Ch4rter Billing has deleted the upcoming service charge for this morning's tech call. Amazing how it took 2 guys to check line levels, then hang one moden where my other modem was, + plug in one coax & one wall wart , then make 30-sec call to the office to get their repacement modem provisioned & watch for blinking green lights. 2 guys. If this happens to you (they discontinued your router & required you to use theirs), don't eat the bill. it does work fine, FWIW, but not impressed. --EJ On 20 September 2012 19:11, E Johnson <iris.gates@gmail.com> wrote:

Umm. Non-happy camper. ISP things have changed here, without me being informed. Recently (2 days ago) my modem started rebooting every little while. Zillions of T3 & T4 timouts in the modem log, Signal lavels were perfect when it was online. I own this thing, a Motorola SB6120 purchased late June 2010. It has not been abused.

I am in Woosta & we all know the ISP available here. 2 techs showed up mid-morning, to diagnose and fix this issue. One guy stood there watching; the other guy "did stuff." They checked the signal levels on incoming line from the box connected to the pole our back, and declared my moden Dying. They talked to each other (not me) & seemed to think I was Granny-in-a-Box, until they let me say more than one sentence.

These guys also confessed that since July 202, Ch4rter does not "allow" customers to own/run their own modems. Their consolation prize is that they don't charge modem rental fees any more. (it's not on the bill, anyway, FWIW). They mumbled some other mumbo jumbo and fled 5 seconds after they learned I have my own router too, & didn't care if the modem and router were yet in communication. They just said "better reboot" and they "no longer" service "wireless" --which I am not running except when certain visitors appear. I think they meant they don't diagnose routers, which has always been the policy, and which is fine. Internal LAN issues aren't their problem.

So now I have a modem which may or may not be sick, but no way to test it to make sure. Is there anyone here who can take a look at this thing & test to see if it's Really Dying, or if Ch4rter deaded it with their latest firmware revision of their firmware & policy change in July 2012?

An interesting meeting theme sometime might be how to get the Verizon FIOS in Worcester. Several years ago I watched Verizon trucks & Verizon moles installing their fiber optics in manholes all over town. Ch4rter is running on Verizon's infrastructure. Ch4rter internet has been working better since then, but we're still locked out of the option to use verizon. Is this a topic of interest to anyone? If so, I'll lead the discussion and even buy the Pizz4. To me, this is a Large Pizza problem.

Another interesting but probably futile discussion might center around why we have suddenly been deprived of the ability to watch the behavior and effectiveness of our modems, which serve internet coming from our ISP.. I was not informed of this -- was anyone who is just a 'regular' customer?

Meanwhile, if anyone has a test lab or whatever, where they can test my declared-dead modem, please let me know. Otherwise it's probably a giveaway, or another piece of Landfill Fodder. I can bring to a meeting & can wait for results.

Thanks & happy pizzaz, Liz J

Make sure that you update the MAC address with charter, and that they actually update it. I've had a few problems where they haven't even though they said they did. Also, a lot of modems have diagnostic suites built in. An easy enough way to get at it is to turn it off, and unscrew the coax line. Now boot it up, and it won't get an IP from charter, but it should give your router an ip like 193.168.100.100, and the gateway should he something like 192.168.100.1 (check for specifics) but that gateway is your modem. Punch that IP into a browser and see what comes up, usually the password is something stupid, and a Google search will yield it if its not admin. Keep in mind you pulled the cable, so it will show that. This will also work when you have no internet, and it usually shortens phone calls with Charter. sent from my mobile Eric On Sep 26, 2012 10:42 AM, "Richard Klein" <rich@richardklein.org> wrote:

Liz, I live in Clinton these days, where Verizon DSL and Comcast are the only options. Comcast is faster, but their monthly data caps made Verizon the better choice for me (not to mention my general distaste for cable companies).

I recently had superficially similar problems. I went on freecycle and got someone's old DSL modem to swap for my own, to rule that out, but I got impatient and bought a new modem before I got the reply from freecycle. In any case, you probably can get another cable modem off freecycle for testing purposes.

After the new modem didn't fix things, I finally called Verizon. They sent out a tech with a good "bedside" manner (he was friendly, seemed to know what he was talking about, and didn't talk down to me). He didn't find anything wrong with my signal, but he did notice the copper loop to my apartment was longer than necessary and cut down the excess at the pole. I haven't had any problems in the 2 months since. In retrospect, I think my problems were mostly on hot, humid days.

-- Rich

...

Umm. Non-happy camper. ISP things have changed here, without me being informed. Recently (2 days ago) my modem started rebooting every little while. Zillions of T3 & T4 timouts in the modem log, Signal lavels were perfect when it was online. I own this thing, a Motorola SB6120

...

late June 2010. It has not been abused.

I am in Woosta & we all know the ISP available here. 2 techs showed up mid-morning, to diagnose and fix this issue. One guy stood there watching; the other guy "did stuff." They checked the signal levels on incoming

...

from the box connected to the pole our back, and declared my moden Dying. They talked to each other (not me) & seemed to think I was Granny-in-a-Box, until they let me say more than one sentence.

These guys also confessed that since July 202, Ch4rter does not "allow" customers to own/run their own modems. Their consolation prize is that

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 7:11 PM, E Johnson <iris.gates@gmail.com> wrote: purchased line they

...

don't charge modem rental fees any more. (it's not on the bill, anyway, FWIW). They mumbled some other mumbo jumbo and fled 5 seconds after they learned I have my own router too, & didn't care if the modem and router were yet in communication. They just said "better reboot" and they "no longer" service "wireless" --which I am not running except when certain visitors appear. I think they meant they don't diagnose routers, which has always been the policy, and which is fine. Internal LAN issues aren't their problem.

So now I have a modem which may or may not be sick, but no way to test it to make sure. Is there anyone here who can take a look at this thing & test to see if it's Really Dying, or if Ch4rter deaded it with their latest firmware revision of their firmware & policy change in July 2012?

An interesting meeting theme sometime might be how to get the Verizon FIOS in Worcester. Several years ago I watched Verizon trucks & Verizon moles installing their fiber optics in manholes all over town. Ch4rter is running on Verizon's infrastructure. Ch4rter internet has been working better since then, but we're still locked out of the option to use verizon. Is this a topic of interest to anyone? If so, I'll lead the discussion and even buy the Pizz4. To me, this is a Large Pizza problem.

Another interesting but probably futile discussion might center around why we have suddenly been deprived of the ability to watch the behavior and effectiveness of our modems, which serve internet coming from our ISP.. I was not informed of this -- was anyone who is just a 'regular' customer?

Meanwhile, if anyone has a test lab or whatever, where they can test my declared-dead modem, please let me know. Otherwise it's probably a giveaway, or another piece of Landfill Fodder. I can bring to a meeting & can wait for results.

Thanks & happy pizzaz, Liz J

_______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

_______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

I don't know how much of the recent comments are directed to me, or which were responding to Richard. This here:

Make sure that you update the MAC address with charter, and that they actually update it. I've had a few problems where they haven't even though they said they did.

Yes! That happened to me, and the modem had to be re-registered two or three times. It depends on the tech you talk to. My modem was incorrectly or incompletely registered here by the install tach on the day the service was hooked up. The internet generally worked as it should anyway, but during times when there were connectivity problems here (see below), in phone calls to tech support, every once in a while the tech would tell me "I" had the wrong MAC address, that I was running an unauthorized modem, etc.. Then I would have to explain why that seemed to be, and they would try again to get that corrected. My history here: Charter here needs a DOCSYS3-compliant modem. I was running a Motorola SB6120, which worked fine for 27 months. This has several nice diagnostic pages, accessed at 192.168.100.1, including logs which give details of any exceptions and error messages. Connectivity problems in summer of 2010 were caused by new lines (coax) from the pole to the box. I was able to prove to the provider that the intermittant problems were not in my setup, but outside. There were several issues, which they gradually seemed to fix. One had to do with connectivity interruptions on the days following a big rainstorm. The connectors in the new lines (at the pole) had not been weatherproofed, which they did. Line techs eventually checked and improved the weatherproofing throughout the whole neighborhood. Note that I have no other services (such as TV) which run on the incoming line. Also note: I have no extra connectors in the coax running between the box and my modem. The sick modem I experienced here a few weeks ago may have simply been due to a failing power supply (wall wart) running the modem. Somehow that had never occurred to me. I could have tested that by replacing it with an equivalent new power supply. Meanwhile 2 Charter techs had diagnosed my modem as 'dying', shook their heads when they learned it was 2+ years old, replaced it with one of theirs, and left. This is a Cisco, which sounded reasonable to me. But there is only one page available to customers, at 192.168.100.1 and this only shows that the modem is connected, a few power levels, SNR, how many channels are running. Further diagnostic pages can be accessed through a password, but the usual logins and passwords don't work. My ultimate solution is to get another modem which I will own and have provisioned when I set it up. The one I'm planning to get is the Motorola SB 6121, their replacement for the 6120, which they no longer manufacture. A further note on the SB6120, in case anyone gets one on ebay or whatever: These are very sensitive to incoming power levels. If the signal is too "hot", such as 15 dBmV, they start throwing errors. These power levels seem to vary according to temperature and humidity. Once I installed a 3db attenuator pad between the incoming coax and my modem, the power levels the modem experienced came down to 10 or 12 dBmV, which allowed the modem to operate without interruption for many months at a time. I haven't heard if the SB6121 has the same sensitivity to hot power levels or not. I'm still reading reviews and forum posts about this unit. I can report on it once I get one in here and running. It will be nice to be able to see the diagnostics pages and service logs again. Liz

E> I don't know how much of the recent comments are directed to me, or E> which were responding to Richard. I was just chiming in with a general comment on Charter's tech support, and how I was pleasently surprised how easy it was to get my NAT router changed without having to talk to a tech at all. E> This here:

...

Make sure that you update the MAC address with charter, and that they actually update it. I've had a few problems where they haven't even though they said they did.

E> Yes! That happened to me, and the modem had to be re-registered two or E> three times. It depends on the tech you talk to. My modem was incorrectly E> or incompletely registered here by the install tach on the day the service E> was hooked up. The internet generally worked as it should anyway, but E> during times when there were connectivity problems here (see below), in E> phone calls to tech support, every once in a while the tech would tell me E> "I" had the wrong MAC address, that I was running an unauthorized modem, E> etc.. Then I would have to explain why that seemed to be, and they would E> try again to get that corrected. E> My history here: E> Charter here needs a DOCSYS3-compliant modem. I was running a Motorola E> SB6120, which worked fine for 27 months. This has several nice diagnostic E> pages, accessed at 192.168.100.1, including logs which give details of any E> exceptions and error messages. E> Connectivity problems in summer of 2010 were caused by new lines (coax) E> from the pole to the box. I was able to prove to the provider that the E> intermittant problems were not in my setup, but outside. There were several E> issues, which they gradually seemed to fix. One had to do with connectivity E> interruptions on the days following a big rainstorm. The connectors in the E> new lines (at the pole) had not been weatherproofed, which they did. Line E> techs eventually checked and improved the weatherproofing throughout the E> whole neighborhood. E> Note that I have no other services (such as TV) which run on the incoming E> line. Also note: I have no extra connectors in the coax running between the E> box and my modem. E> The sick modem I experienced here a few weeks ago may have simply been due E> to a failing power supply (wall wart) running the modem. Somehow that had E> never occurred to me. I could have tested that by replacing it with an E> equivalent new power supply. E> Meanwhile 2 Charter techs had diagnosed my modem as 'dying', shook their E> heads when they learned it was 2+ years old, replaced it with one of E> theirs, and left. This is a Cisco, which sounded reasonable to me. But E> there is only one page available to customers, at 192.168.100.1 and this E> only shows that the modem is connected, a few power levels, SNR, how many E> channels are running. Further diagnostic pages can be accessed through a E> password, but the usual logins and passwords don't work. E> My ultimate solution is to get another modem which I will own and have E> provisioned when I set it up. The one I'm planning to get is the Motorola E> SB 6121, their replacement for the 6120, which they no longer manufacture. E> A further note on the SB6120, in case anyone gets one on ebay or whatever: E> These are very sensitive to incoming power levels. If the signal is too E> "hot", such as 15 dBmV, they start throwing errors. These power levels seem E> to vary according to temperature and humidity. Once I installed a 3db E> attenuator pad between the incoming coax and my modem, the power levels E> the modem experienced came down to 10 or 12 dBmV, which allowed the modem E> to operate without interruption for many months at a time. E> I haven't heard if the SB6121 has the same sensitivity to hot power levels E> or not. I'm still reading reviews and forum posts about this unit. I can E> report on it once I get one in here and running. It will be nice to be able E> to see the diagnostics pages and service logs again. E> Liz E> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- E> _______________________________________________ E> Wlug mailing list E> Wlug@mail.wlug.org E> http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug

Oops, correction. I wrote:

FYI on the SB6120: the price has dropped. There is free shipping on this at the moment at newegg. Mine is on order. The SB6120 (previous model) actually costs more now, where it's still available.

Make that > FYI on the SB6121... etc. & pardon the error. The SB6120s still available "new" for purchase are leftover vendor stocks of a no-longer manufactured model. Lizs On 27 September 2012 18:51, E Johnson <iris.gates@gmail.com> wrote:

Jeff, thanks for the input on the SB6121.

John, sorry to hear of the demise of your router. I have one of the newer Netgear routers here, running TomatoUSB. Very nice. It took 4 hands to do the magical reset after installing the software. but it's been solid after that.

Generally, service & line issues (Charter in town here): I immediately notice line issues (when they happen) because I use an internet telephone quite often. That's one reason I like to see the modem logs. T3 and T4 timeouts might not be noticed if one is surfing the web. People streaming video might see a momentary glitch, maybe. Gamers definitely notice issues in their lines. It's not the available upload/download speeds that make the difference, it's the ping times & momentary glitches that cause packts to arrive or leave out of order, or requests & replies having to be resubmitted. Those were problems I had to address with the Charter techs at two different addresses. Line issues at the last place took me 4 years to resolve. Charter was good to me (rebates when I could prove their end caused the problems), and the techs that came out were generally okay, but didn't always know what they were doing. A lot of them pretty much just know how to measure an incoming signal, and if necessary, put a ladder up the pole & measure there... and how to plug in a modem & call the office for registration & provisioning. Other, more experienced techs would sometimes look at printouts of traceroutes, and recognize where the glitch in the system is. I think these guys are being phased out. But the internet service is generally very good.

I checked again with Charter. The 3 techs who told me I'm not "allowed" to own my own modem were wrong, or misinformed, or whatever. Totally Wrong. Charter's NEW customers are required to use only Charter equipment, but customers with established accounts (before July 2012) are allowed to own their own equipment. They of course warn us that we're expected to do our own maintanence. There is a risk in this -- if the firmware (worked out between Charter and Motorola) is buggy, we'd have to prove (again) that it's Them Not Us.

I have struggled with the burden-of-proof issue off & on for 12 years now.

So don't go on vacation, then open a new account at the new place where you recently moved. Just migrate your account to the new location. What a Catch-22, but until we have an alternative provider in town, it is what it is.

FYI on the SB6120: the price has dropped. There is free shipping on this at the moment at newegg. Mine is on order. The SB6120 (previous model) actually costs more now, where it's still available.

Thanks again, guys. Hope some of this helps someone else. Liz