Guys, I've been looking around for a new system at home, basically to act as a file server (NFS, Samba) and backup server using Bacula. It also needs to run http and mysql and other daemons as needed. I'd like to get at least a pair of 250gb drives to mirror them for storage, with LVM volumes on top. And of course room for expansion to another pair of drives down the line. But I'd like it smallish and quiet as well. Oh yeah, it needs to have a PCI slot for a SCSI controller, since my tape drive is SCSI for backups. Desires: - small - cheap - quiet - low power - boots without a keyboard/mouse needed at all - onboard video (don't really need it at all) - PCI slots for expansion - four 3.5" drive bays internally - SATA ports on board - AMD or VIA EPIA - 1Gb of RAM or more. I've looked at the Via EPIA style systems. Just not sure if they have enough oomph for what I want. The other thought is to just take my old Dell Precision dual cpu Xeon 550mhz box and make that my main server, holding all my data, etc. It's got the drive bays, and PCI slots and scsi controller all in there already. I could add in some SATA controllers for the new disks without a problem. And it would continue to hold my ISA 8-port serial card. And it's got the memory for what it would be doing pretty much as well. Then I'd just get a new system for my desktop with a much smaller disk drive. Systems I've looked at: - bare bones AMD x2 on ebay. - VIA Epia Nanoscale dual CPU box http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS7109201579.html - buying a dell from their closeouts Any comments? John
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006, John Stoffel wrote:
Guys,
I've been looking around for a new system at home, basically to act as a file server (NFS, Samba) and backup server using Bacula. It also needs to run http and mysql and other daemons as needed.
I'd like to get at least a pair of 250gb drives to mirror them for storage, with LVM volumes on top. And of course room for expansion to another pair of drives down the line.
But I'd like it smallish and quiet as well. Oh yeah, it needs to have a PCI slot for a SCSI controller, since my tape drive is SCSI for backups.
Desires:
- small - cheap - quiet - low power - boots without a keyboard/mouse needed at all - onboard video (don't really need it at all) - PCI slots for expansion - four 3.5" drive bays internally - SATA ports on board - AMD or VIA EPIA - 1Gb of RAM or more.
I've looked at the Via EPIA style systems. Just not sure if they have enough oomph for what I want.
The other thought is to just take my old Dell Precision dual cpu Xeon 550mhz box and make that my main server, holding all my data, etc. It's got the drive bays, and PCI slots and scsi controller all in there already. I could add in some SATA controllers for the new disks without a problem. And it would continue to hold my ISA 8-port serial card. And it's got the memory for what it would be doing pretty much as well.
Then I'd just get a new system for my desktop with a much smaller disk drive.
Systems I've looked at:
- bare bones AMD x2 on ebay. - VIA Epia Nanoscale dual CPU box http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS7109201579.html - buying a dell from their closeouts
Any comments?
Hi John, I've built a few PCs over the past few years, so I can share some experiences. #1: Built from scratch using a Soyo motherboard, Duron CPU, Powmax micro-ATX case. Cheapest system I could build, and one of the noisiest I've ever owned. The dinky 230W power supply has a cheap noisy fan, and the Duron runs super hot so it needs constant fanning. #2: Antec Aria case, older Intel PIII + Intel mobo. The Aria case is crowded inside in strange ways, making most 3rd-party heatsink/fan solutions impossible. I have a hack solution using some springs to hold it place. The front power switch on the Aria was flaky, causing the unit to power off randomly (I made the "reset" button the power switch as a workaround; the "power" button does nothing, much to my wife's frustration when she tried to power it up to play StepMania). The Aria is mostly plastic and flimsy. Avoid it, despite its smallish size and pretty looks in pictures. But the Intel CPU+mobo is decent and doesn't run too hot. #3: AMD64 x2, Tyan motherboard with NVidia chipset, Coolermaster Centurion case. This is my main system these days, it runs quiet, and I'm happy with every part of it. Wattage numbers: [model name : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+] Off:4W linux (idle):81W 1 core spinning: 112W 2 cores spinning: 145W Compare to this P4 system, [model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz] off:4W linux (idle): 105W cpu spinning: 167W The VIAs are seductive, but when I looked harder at them, they either required small (=noisy) fans, http://mini-itx.com/news/images/story0386-05L.jpg or ridiculous heatsinking to run fanless, http://www2.multithread.co.uk/images/en12000e_alt1_large.jpg So I would avoid them. For server purposes, it sounds like reusing your existing Dell box is ideal. I still have my former main desktop (2x Celeron 466) running my internal web server, Postgresql, etc. For the desktop, if I were building a new system today, I would look into the Intel core2/double/duo/whatever, retail packaging for the nice quiet Intel fan, and a mobo with an Intel graphics chipset. The core/foo's run lower wattage than recent AMDs (I hear), the Intel graphics are decent for 3D stuff, and the GPU drivers are open source. No dealing with ATI/NVidia driver madness. -Jamie
"Jamie" == Jamie Guinan <guinan@bluebutton.com> writes:
Jamie> I've built a few PCs over the past few years, so I can share Jamie> some experiences. Jamie> #3: AMD64 x2, Tyan motherboard with NVidia chipset, Jamie> Coolermaster Centurion case. This is my main system these Jamie> days, it runs quiet, and I'm happy with every part of it. Jamie> Wattage numbers: How good is the video? Do you need the NV proprietary kernel module? I'm really just interested in great 2-D graphics, with some 3-d, but I don't play games much at all these days, so I don't care. Mostly, I'm looking for clear crisp text. The AMDs just rock. Jamie> The VIAs are seductive, but when I looked harder at them, they Jamie> either required small (=noisy) fans, Jamie> http://mini-itx.com/news/images/story0386-05L.jpg Jamie> or ridiculous heatsinking to run fanless, Jamie> http://www2.multithread.co.uk/images/en12000e_alt1_large.jpg Jamie> So I would avoid them. True, but they are tempting just from the size/power constraint, plus they usually have a couple of PCI slots and built-in video... Jamie> For server purposes, it sounds like reusing your existing Dell Jamie> box is ideal. I still have my former main desktop (2x Celeron Jamie> 466) running my internal web server, Postgresql, etc. I'm starting to think that this is the way to go really. And I think I could even stuff the DLT drive into the box, to make it even smaller. Jamie> For the desktop, if I were building a new system today, I would Jamie> look into the Intel core2/double/duo/whatever, retail packaging Jamie> for the nice quiet Intel fan, and a mobo with an Intel graphics Jamie> chipset. The core/foo's run lower wattage than recent AMDs (I Jamie> hear), the Intel graphics are decent for 3D stuff, and the GPU Jamie> drivers are open source. No dealing with ATI/NVidia driver Jamie> madness. I dunno... I like the AMD opterons we have here at work, but it's not really that big a deal I guess. Which ever has the best price/power/cost metric. Now the Intel graphics are nice, if only because the specs are available, and I certainly don't need super-duper graphics. My Matrox G450 still does a nice job for what I want it to do. Thanks for the hints. John
Also, AMD is sells low wattage Semprons. <http://www.amdcompare.com/us-en/desktop/details.aspx?opn=SDD3000IAA3CN> With sufficient heat sinking, large slow fans, and some sound insulation, you could make a very quiet, cheap mid tower. I am not sure where one would get one though. On the other hand, if you replace the mini-pc in the "bling" solution with a used pentium M laptop with firewire, you can connect the Lacie drives with firewire and buy a Linux-supported SCSI PCMCIA card for the tape drive. ;-) -Adam On 9/28/06, John Stoffel <john@stoffel.org> wrote:
"Jamie" == Jamie Guinan <guinan@bluebutton.com> writes:
Jamie> I've built a few PCs over the past few years, so I can share Jamie> some experiences.
Jamie> #3: AMD64 x2, Tyan motherboard with NVidia chipset, Jamie> Coolermaster Centurion case. This is my main system these Jamie> days, it runs quiet, and I'm happy with every part of it. Jamie> Wattage numbers:
How good is the video? Do you need the NV proprietary kernel module? I'm really just interested in great 2-D graphics, with some 3-d, but I don't play games much at all these days, so I don't care. Mostly, I'm looking for clear crisp text.
The AMDs just rock.
Jamie> The VIAs are seductive, but when I looked harder at them, they Jamie> either required small (=noisy) fans,
Jamie> http://mini-itx.com/news/images/story0386-05L.jpg
Jamie> or ridiculous heatsinking to run fanless,
Jamie> http://www2.multithread.co.uk/images/en12000e_alt1_large.jpg
Jamie> So I would avoid them.
True, but they are tempting just from the size/power constraint, plus they usually have a couple of PCI slots and built-in video...
Jamie> For server purposes, it sounds like reusing your existing Dell Jamie> box is ideal. I still have my former main desktop (2x Celeron Jamie> 466) running my internal web server, Postgresql, etc.
I'm starting to think that this is the way to go really. And I think I could even stuff the DLT drive into the box, to make it even smaller.
Jamie> For the desktop, if I were building a new system today, I would Jamie> look into the Intel core2/double/duo/whatever, retail packaging Jamie> for the nice quiet Intel fan, and a mobo with an Intel graphics Jamie> chipset. The core/foo's run lower wattage than recent AMDs (I Jamie> hear), the Intel graphics are decent for 3D stuff, and the GPU Jamie> drivers are open source. No dealing with ATI/NVidia driver Jamie> madness.
I dunno... I like the AMD opterons we have here at work, but it's not really that big a deal I guess. Which ever has the best price/power/cost metric.
Now the Intel graphics are nice, if only because the specs are available, and I certainly don't need super-duper graphics. My Matrox G450 still does a nice job for what I want it to do.
Thanks for the hints.
John _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
-- -Adam
Hi All: Just wanted to let everyone know that I'm working hard to make my preso at this Wednesday's WLUG meeting (October 11) interesting, informative, innovative. Something different, without being annoying. Bring any of your friends that might be interested in data visualization, web design, XML, SVG, etc. During the preso, interrupt me with questions as much as you want, and make a mental note where my presentation isn't clear or drags. I'm hoping to get as much feedback as possible so that the next time I present this topic it will be better. Thanks, Doug
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006, John Stoffel wrote:
"Jamie" == Jamie Guinan <guinan@bluebutton.com> writes:
Jamie> I've built a few PCs over the past few years, so I can share Jamie> some experiences.
Jamie> #3: AMD64 x2, Tyan motherboard with NVidia chipset, Jamie> Coolermaster Centurion case. This is my main system these Jamie> days, it runs quiet, and I'm happy with every part of it. Jamie> Wattage numbers:
How good is the video? Do you need the NV proprietary kernel module? I'm really just interested in great 2-D graphics, with some 3-d, but I don't play games much at all these days, so I don't care. Mostly, I'm looking for clear crisp text.
Its marketed as a server board, so it has cheap onboard ATI video, but I found the quality was not crisp at all (probably meant for use as a console and not much else). http://www.tyan.com/PRODUCTS/html/tomcatk8e_anrf.html But I do play games enough to want decent 3D (quake2, X-Plane), so I put in a fanless NVidia 6200, and use the evil Nvidia module. Incidentally, I've had much better luck with the evil Nvidia module than the evil ATI module, which gave me no end of lockups. The NV *chipset* soldered onto the Tyan provides IDE, audio, ethernet, and so on, and all that stuff is supported by in-kernel (GPL) drivers. Except maybe the NVRAID, which I wouldn't use anyway. It will be interesting to see where AMD goes with their acquisition of ATI. -Jamie
The actual power draw of this system is less than a 3-way lightbulb on full bright? Call me shocked... Rather than hibernating my PC at night I should get my 4 year old to sleep with her light off... (yes I run XP on the machine in question). On 9/27/06, Jamie Guinan <guinan@bluebutton.com> wrote:
#3: AMD64 x2, Tyan motherboard with NVidia chipset, Coolermaster Centurion case. This is my main system these days, it runs quiet, and I'm happy with every part of it. Wattage numbers:
[model name : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+] Off:4W linux (idle):81W 1 core spinning: 112W 2 cores spinning: 145W
The small, blingy, cost-is-no-object solution ;-) : <http://www.cappuccinopc.com/pandora-945.asp> sitting on top of 2x <http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=10727> mounted via firewire and mirrored with md, and <http://www.ratocsystems.com/english/products/subpages/firerex1.html> to handle the tape drive (unless it's internal :-/). The Core Duo includes speedstep so it should keep the power usage down. ------------- Realistically though, a few of my friends have had good noise levels and reliability putting the fanless VIA kit into a larger case with slow large fans or no fans at all. In that case, the noisiest and hottest bits will be the drives. -Adam On 9/27/06, John Stoffel <john@stoffel.org> wrote:
Guys,
I've been looking around for a new system at home, basically to act as a file server (NFS, Samba) and backup server using Bacula. It also needs to run http and mysql and other daemons as needed.
I'd like to get at least a pair of 250gb drives to mirror them for storage, with LVM volumes on top. And of course room for expansion to another pair of drives down the line.
But I'd like it smallish and quiet as well. Oh yeah, it needs to have a PCI slot for a SCSI controller, since my tape drive is SCSI for backups.
Desires:
- small - cheap - quiet - low power - boots without a keyboard/mouse needed at all - onboard video (don't really need it at all) - PCI slots for expansion - four 3.5" drive bays internally - SATA ports on board - AMD or VIA EPIA - 1Gb of RAM or more.
I've looked at the Via EPIA style systems. Just not sure if they have enough oomph for what I want.
The other thought is to just take my old Dell Precision dual cpu Xeon 550mhz box and make that my main server, holding all my data, etc. It's got the drive bays, and PCI slots and scsi controller all in there already. I could add in some SATA controllers for the new disks without a problem. And it would continue to hold my ISA 8-port serial card. And it's got the memory for what it would be doing pretty much as well.
Then I'd just get a new system for my desktop with a much smaller disk drive.
Systems I've looked at:
- bare bones AMD x2 on ebay. - VIA Epia Nanoscale dual CPU box http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS7109201579.html - buying a dell from their closeouts
Any comments?
John _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
-- -Adam
Adam> The small, blingy, cost-is-no-object solution ;-) : Adam> <http://www.cappuccinopc.com/pandora-945.asp> Cute, too small for a file server. Adam> sitting on top of Adam> 2x <http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=10727> Adam> mounted via firewire and mirrored with md, and Adam> <http://www.ratocsystems.com/english/products/subpages/firerex1.html> Adam> to handle the tape drive (unless it's internal :-/). Now this is just a sick sick sick device, but no mention of linux compatibility at all, so I'd be *very* hesitant to try and run this. Also, my DLT drive is a 68pin SCSI connnector, luckily I think I have a 68->50 adapter. But I'll pass and let someone else go this route. :] It is a funcy solution. Adam> Realistically though, a few of my friends have had good noise Adam> levels and reliability putting the fanless VIA kit into a larger Adam> case with slow large fans or no fans at all. In that case, the Adam> noisiest and hottest bits will be the drives. Yeah, the tape drive and it's fan (it's an external drive) will probably be the loudest part of it all if I'm careful. Thanks for the ideas...
participants (5)
-
Adam Keck -
douglas.r.aker＠verizon.com -
Jamie Guinan -
Jim Dibb -
John Stoffel