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Re: Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters problem Andy, b) Any recruiter who abuses the list by failing to ask permission prior to posting, or by an excessive volume of emails, will be asked to stop (including removal from the membership list if necessary). How would you define excessive? Al Butler -----Original Message----- From: wlug-request@mail.wlug.org To: wlug@mail.wlug.org Sent: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:19 am Subject: Wlug Digest, Vol 44, Issue 10 Send Wlug mailing list submissions to wlug@mail.wlug.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to wlug-request@mail.wlug.org You can reach the person managing the list at wlug-owner@mail.wlug.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Wlug digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: JOB - Senior Operations Engineer - Boston, MA (Tal Cohen) 2. Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters (Andy Stewart) 3. Re: Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters (Andy Stewart) 4. Re: Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters (Chuck Anderson) 5. Re: JOB - Senior Operations Engineer - Boston, MA (Mark Richards) 6. Re: Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters (Andy Stewart) 7. Re: Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters (Mike Leo) 8. Re: Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters (Andy Stewart) 9. Re: JOB - Senior Operations Engineer - Boston, MA (Keith Wright) Attached Message From: Tal Cohen To: 'Jamie Guinan' ; 'Worcester Linux Users Group' Subject: Re: [Wlug] JOB - Senior Operations Engineer - Boston, MA Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 19:12:46 -0400 So, here is a question: What are the guidelines for posting a relevant job opening to this group? My reason for asking is because the company that I work for is about to open a few reqs, and I want to get the bounty :) Seriously (although I do want the bounty), the positions will be appropriate for the group. Thanks, Tal -----Original Message----- From: wlug-bounces@mail.wlug.org [mailto:wlug-bounces@mail.wlug.org] On Behalf Of Jamie Guinan Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 4:59 PM To: Worcester Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Wlug] JOB - Senior Operations Engineer - Boston, MA person(s= pr=

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Delete the email... from *any* computer? "Pardon me Fred, I need to borrow your PC for a few minutes..." -Jamie _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug Attached Message From: Andy Stewart To: Worcester Linux Users Group Subject: [Wlug] Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:00:53 -0400 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 HI gang, Tal Cohen wrote:

So, here is a question: What are the guidelines for posting a relevant job opening to this group?

This is a very good question! In general, I personally frown upon random recruiters posting job openings on the WLUG mailing list, especially when they don't have the courtesy of asking permission. Having the list as writable only by list members helps to keep this type of email traffic minimized. However, there have been a couple of recruiters in the past who asked permission prior to posting, which I did grant (John Spencer is one such individual). I specifically asked John to preface his subject with "JOB" or "JOBS" so people could filter accordingly, and he has done what was asked. Also, John's posts have been very Linux relevant IMHO. In the interest of fair disclosure, I've worked with John in the past and my employer has hired people represented by him. I have also had recruiters send the job posting to me, asking me to forward it to the list. If relevant, I forward the post, but sometimes I have deleted them if I thought they were not relevant. Having said all of that, I recognize that this mailing list belongs to all of us and not just to me. At any time, we as a group can choose to change our policy. Admittedly, even if every recruiter who posted asked permission and used the "JOB" subject, the volume of email could become more than we'd like. To date, this has not happened. I have not yet heard anybody complain about a group member posting a relevant job opening for their employer. In today's particular case, I suspect that if the recruiter were informed of our policy, he would be happy to comply. Although it is our email list, how we react on the list is a reflection of the group as a whole. In summary, I propose the following for your consideration: a) Recruiters who wish to post to the WLUG mailing list need to request permission to do so, and if granted, preface the subject with "JOB" so people can filter accordingly. As acting president, I presume that the permission would be granted by me. b) Any recruiter who abuses the list by failing to ask permission prior to posting, or by an excessive volume of emails, will be asked to stop (including removal from the membership list if necessary). c) Group members may post relevant job openings as long as they preface the subject with "JOB". I invite constructive discussion on the proposal, and counter proposals if appropriate. Thanks, Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group (http://www.wlug.org) Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group (http://linux.meetup.com/393) Amateur Radio: KB1OIQ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGdxy1Hl0iXDssISsRAuEzAJ9BjH5OEKb2KczS2uST4Y1F4p0VSACcDbNf SShrPI1odk0K9WH68GLiSBA= =jOVI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Attached Message From: Andy Stewart To: Worcester Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Wlug] Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:23:39 -0400 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Andy Stewart wrote:

In summary, I propose the following for your consideration:

a) Recruiters who wish to post to the WLUG mailing list need to request permission to do so, and if granted, preface the subject with "JOB" so people can filter accordingly. As acting president, I presume that the permission would be granted by me.

I just thought of something. When a person who is not a list member attempts to post a message to the group, the email is sent to the list moderator for approval. This is currently Frank Sweetser (and I think Chuck Anderson, also). In the event that a recruiter attempts to post without first becoming a group member, I have full trust in the list moderator's judgment to implement our group policy. Later, Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group (http://www.wlug.org) Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group (http://linux.meetup.com/393) Amateur Radio: KB1OIQ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGdyILHl0iXDssISsRAgNmAJsGz/nTV+HCanWwh3V/ZZQ38r7M/QCfZXtD GuE/sWwnwCdq4pIDU7/k4LQ= =UUDG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Attached Message From: Chuck Anderson To: wlug@mail.wlug.org Subject: Re: [Wlug] Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:25:44 -0400 On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 08:23:39PM -0400, Andy Stewart wrote:

In the event that a recruiter attempts to post without first becoming a group member, I have full trust in the list moderator's judgment to implement our group policy.

The problem in this case was that the user subscribed to the list, and then immediately sent the JOB posting. So he was already a "group member". Attached Message From: Mark Richards To: Worcester Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Wlug] JOB - Senior Operations Engineer - Boston, MA Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:13:04 -0400 Tal Cohen wrote:?

So, here is a question: What are the guidelines for posting a relevant job?

opening to this group? My guess is that policy need not be set if participants would exercise basic courtesy: ask first.? ?

You did that. Good show.? ? /m? ? ? Attached Message From: Andy Stewart To: wlug@mail.wlug.org Subject: Re: [Wlug] Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:42:22 -0400 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Chuck Anderson wrote:

On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 08:23:39PM -0400, Andy Stewart wrote:

...

In the event that a recruiter attempts to post without first becoming a group member, I have full trust in the list moderator's judgment to implement our group policy.

The problem in this case was that the user subscribed to the list, and then immediately sent the JOB posting. So he was already a "group member".

Yes, and I have a couple of thoughts on that. 1) I believe this is the first time a recruiter has done this, but I could be wrong. 2) We as a group have every right to determine what is acceptable email on the list. In my opinion, if any group member abuses the list, they should be first asked to stop and then have their privileges revoked if they continue to abuse the list. The post did mention Linux, it did have "JOB" in the subject, however, the recruiter did not ask permission to use our list. Is that sufficient cause for immediate revocation from the list? Perhaps so, perhaps not - you tell me. I don't recall anybody asking this particular recruiter to stop doing what he did. We should revoke with care. If done harshly, it could damage the group reputation. 3) I opened the topic for discussion because I want to be sure that folks who are normally less vocal on the group mailing list have a chance to air their opinions. 4) The end result of these discussions should be posted on the website as a group policy so guests to our mailing list will understand what we expect of them. Thanks, Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group (http://www.wlug.org) Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group (http://linux.meetup.com/393) Amateur Radio: KB1OIQ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGdyZuHl0iXDssISsRAqF1AJwKnQMShnVbgX0A1x5ebbL3pUcESACfTn0H pQOtgCZU7i/Zbd/muSg7r20= =2oDQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Attached Message From: Mike Leo To: Worcester Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Wlug] Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 17:43:58 -0700 (PDT) Does a job posting really warrant this much discussion? I know I haven't participated much lately, but the emails discussing the spam job posting have been more spam-like than the original possible spam posting. spamspamspamspamspamspamspameggsspam. Anyway, I also posted a job posting earlier today.? Hope I did not break the rules. Mike ----- Original Message ---- From: Chuck Anderson To: wlug@mail.wlug.org Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 8:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [Wlug] Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 08:23:39PM -0400, Andy Stewart wrote:

In the event that a recruiter attempts to post without first becoming a group member, I have full trust in the list moderator's judgment to implement our group policy.

The problem in this case was that the user subscribed to the list, and then immediately sent the JOB posting.??So he was already a "group member". _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug Attached Message From: Andy Stewart To: Worcester Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Wlug] Discussion: Email list policy for recruiters Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:51:44 -0400 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Mike Leo wrote:

Does a job posting really warrant this much discussion?

Hi Mike, Normally, no, but this subject has come up before, and I'd like to settle it.

I know I haven't participated much lately, but the emails discussing the spam job posting have been more spam-like than the original possible spam posting.

spamspamspamspamspamspamspameggsspam.

Anyway, I also posted a job posting earlier today. Hope I did not break the rules.

I had no problem with your post. Later, Andy - -- Andy Stewart, Founder Worcester Linux Users' Group (http://www.wlug.org) Chelmsford Linux Meetup Group (http://linux.meetup.com/393) Amateur Radio: KB1OIQ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGdyigHl0iXDssISsRAjjaAJ4hUy5DyPm+W+KMaIlIPZGWFgCWKQCeKB0N jLDlWHyrQIYtUo2Cz8+qMn8= =WdEA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Attached Message From: Keith Wright To: wlug@mail.wlug.org Subject: Re: [Wlug] JOB - Senior Operations Engineer - Boston, MA Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 00:12:08 -0400

From: "Tal Cohen"

What are the guidelines for posting a relevant job opening to this group?

Don't be a lamer. I am tempted to leave it there. True Lamers will never know who they are, but here are some guides to How To Be A Lamer. 1. Never come to a meeting. 2. Subscribe to the list for the sole purpose of posting your advertisement. 3. Fail the Turing Test by using cliches to indicate that your message was auto-generated by a computer or marketing manager. 4. Do not write any introductory remarks that might show your message is intended for the WLUG list, rather than every list in known space. There are, of course, many other possible lame actions. Note that I have no actual power over any list messages other than my own, and so my opinions are worthless except in so far as others agree with them. -- Keith _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection.