Fwd: Sympathy for a guy over his head
Thoughts from wisened pros? Now more than ever I need to migrate to Linux. I am using a dual boot system MS/Linux and I desperately want to cut the cord. Previously the difficulty was an inability to print. Newest guess on that is that there is a possible conflict with lpd and CUPS running at the same time? I have yet to unpack how one goes about fixing that. Most recent challenge was to get a network connection established between two machines on 3Com cards on a 3Com box. Didn't quite get my hands around that, though many different angles were tried. Current thinking on this one is to look around and see if SAMBA might let me configure things. And then I really messed things up. While trying to establish a network I saw this neat option that lets machines share an internet connection, and I pursued it.... After playing around for a while I disabled it and now the Internet connection will not properly execute the ppp. I can manually get all the way through the logon in a Terminal session and when I get to: Entering PPP Session IP address is 216.164.248.83 MTU is 1500 There is nowhere to go from here. Leave it alone and it disconnects. Try to do anything, any key, and gobbledygook shows up killing any prospect of a PPP session completing. Possible that the system "enabling IPv4 packet forwarding" on startup is some leftover from my messing around with sharing an internet connection? No idea on that one. All right. It is necessary to screw around and make mistakes to learn. I am excelling at that, and probably do now know more. The difficulty is that I have never seen this up and working anywhere before, and when trying to solve a problem I am working without an image in my head of what is or isn't supposed to be there. Thought to reload the Mandrake 7.2 system and hope to wipe the settings I created return to where I was originally pursuing different paths. Trick there is that "Reload" keeps all the settings. Shouldah done a reinstall. Learned that too. Any thoughts, or maybe even just a weak hearted consoling word or two. My deepest and sincerest thanks to the learned who had to endure hear a young fool trying to find his feet. Colin
Ok... I'll start off by saying I'm not all that familiar with Mandrake, and I haven't fooled around much with printing, so I'll skip that part. But as for the network, I'm kind of confused about what's going on there. You're trying to connect to another machine on the same network (I assume you've got them wired right, with a hub or crossover cable), right? Does the network card show up as detected in the kernel start-up messages? Is the interface configured correctly? Can you ping another machine? Am I making any sense here? Also, how is your internet connection set up (ie dial-up, etc), and how are you trying to connect to them? (what commands do you run) It sounds like pppd isn't actually connecting to the other side, but it's hard to be sure. On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Colin Novick wrote:
Thoughts from wisened pros?
Now more than ever I need to migrate to Linux. I am using a dual boot system MS/Linux and I desperately want to cut the cord. Previously the difficulty was an inability to print. Newest guess on that is that there is a possible conflict with lpd and CUPS running at the same time? I have yet to unpack how one goes about fixing that. Most recent challenge was to get a network connection established between two machines on 3Com cards on a 3Com box. Didn't quite get my hands around that, though many different angles were tried. Current thinking on this one is to look around and see if SAMBA might let me configure things. And then I really messed things up. While trying to establish a network I saw this neat option that lets machines share an internet connection, and I pursued it.... After playing around for a while I disabled it and now the Internet connection will not properly execute the ppp. I can manually get all the way through the logon in a Terminal session and when I get to: Entering PPP Session IP address is 216.164.248.83 MTU is 1500 There is nowhere to go from here. Leave it alone and it disconnects. Try to do anything, any key, and gobbledygook shows up killing any prospect of a PPP session completing. Possible that the system "enabling IPv4 packet forwarding" on startup is some leftover from my messing around with sharing an internet connection? No idea on that one.
All right. It is necessary to screw around and make mistakes to learn. I am excelling at that, and probably do now know more. The difficulty is that I have never seen this up and working anywhere before, and when trying to solve a problem I am working without an image in my head of what is or isn't supposed to be there.
Thought to reload the Mandrake 7.2 system and hope to wipe the settings I created return to where I was originally pursuing different paths. Trick there is that "Reload" keeps all the settings. Shouldah done a reinstall. Learned that too.
Any thoughts, or maybe even just a weak hearted consoling word or two. My deepest and sincerest thanks to the learned who had to endure hear a young fool trying to find his feet.
Colin _______________________________________________ Wlug mailing list Wlug@mail.wlug.org http://mail.wlug.org/mailman/listinfo/wlug
Thanks Ben!
Ok... I'll start off by saying I'm not all that familiar with Mandrake, and I haven't fooled around much with printing, so I'll skip that part.
That's cool. Any help or improvement would be welcome. Besides just writing/talking it through might spark something. I do appreciate the response.
But as for the network, I'm kind of confused about what's going on there.
You and me both. First off. I am not learned on networking. I am reading and trying, but not getting traction. On the windows side of my machine I am connecting my machine to a large format HP printer (DesignJet 488 CA) through a 3Com network card and a 3Com 4 port fast ethernet hub. The HP requires that I send all the data to a HP JetDirect 300X box that transfers the data through a parallel conn. to the printer. It is faster for big projects that way if you believe the literature. That works fine in Windows , but again I can't "see" the important command settings that make trying to understand what works, and thus how to replicate it in Linux hard. I haven't been able to address the large HP in Linux through printing programs, network interfaces, or fiddling in network settings. My machine's network card is there (eth0) and I can ping that. Thus there is a way out and onto the network. All the connected items satisfy the 3Com hub and the appropriate indicator lights show a good connection. I was of the belief that the HP printer may have a "static" IP in its hardware so I tried pinging that. No luck. Nor any luck for trying to just assign an IP to it, though I have to admit that I may have done that improperly through ignorance. Each time I installed Mandrake I made sure that the hub and printer were on in the hopes that it might be automatically detected in the setup. That has not occurred. When I installed the PentiumI I made sure that the hub, printer and the main machine I work on were all up and running in the hopes that again it would detect that there was a network present. It did not. I figured that my general difficulties in overall printing might be part of the issue so I am trying to add to the network an old PentiumI using another 3Com card. I heard that connections are easier if you keep the connections all in the same family. That card is there as eth0 on that machine as well and I can ping the card from its machine. Part of the issue is trying to figure out how to set the settings in both of the machines such that they can find one another. I was originally thinking that this was a peer to peer relationship and that I needed to set the IP's on each of the machines and then try to have one ping the other. The Mandrake Config programs are not doing this automatically for me so I tried messing around in the terminal. I have Mandrake 7.2 running on the PentiumI, though when it is running properly I will try to stay out of a desktop environment unless I have some time on my hands.
You're trying to connect to another machine on the same network (I assume you've got them wired right, with a hub or crossover cable), right?
Yes I believe that the connections I have made are proper, and that the kernel has properly been set to the right network card drivers.
Does the network card show up as detected in the kernel start-up messages?
Yes, eth0 comes up properly in the kernel start up.
Is the interface configured correctly?
I believe that it is.
Can you ping another machine?
No. I have not yet been able to ping another machine.
Am I making any sense here?
Yes.
Also, how is your internet connection set up (ie dial-up, etc),
Dial up 3 Com modem to Ultranet, or rather, RCN.
and how are you trying to connect to them? (what commands do you run)
In KDE I pull up the internet connection dialog, and lately I simply go to the Terminal and go through the following: ATZ OK ATDT15084258111 CONNECT 49333/ARQ/V90/LAPM/V42BIS (Carriage Return) ** APXI.SBO.MA.RCN.NET Terminal Server ** Login: ****@** Password: ******** Entering PPP Session IP Address is 216.164.248.83 MTU is 1500 and then I am stuck not knowing what I need to do to complete the connect or if I am waiting for the server to send me something else.
It sounds like pppd isn't actually connecting to the other side, but it's hard to be sure.
Anyway I can check that? The Debug program offers no explanation. I can logon properly with the silly Windows dialer, but as there is no terminal or dialog window I have no idea how it is "properly" addressing things. The dialup worked on Linux until I went fiddling elsewhere in the Mandrake Config program. (Sharing an internet connection) Although I changed the settings back (to the best of my recollection anyway) still no dice. Any insights by anyone (other than the obvious one of my inexperience being the root of most of the problems) are valued like gold. Colin
On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Colin Novick wrote: CN>On the windows side of my machine I am connecting my machine to a large CN>format HP printer (DesignJet 488 CA) through a 3Com network card and CN>a 3Com 4 port fast ethernet hub. The HP requires that I send all the CN>data to a HP JetDirect 300X box that transfers the data through a CN>parallel conn. to the printer. It is faster for big projects that way CN>if you believe the literature. That works fine in Windows , but again CN>I can't "see" the important command settings that make trying to CN>understand what works, and thus how to replicate it in Linux hard. it's not that hard, i think. does Mandrake have something like printtool? in RedHat, there's a program called control-panel that allows the admin to configure printers. it was through this that i told it about network printers (the information is stored in /etc/printcap).... once you know hostnames or IP addresses for the printers, the rest isn't difficult at all. that little box seems to act like a print buffer. pretty handy. CN>I haven't been able to address the large HP in Linux through printing CN>programs, network interfaces, or fiddling in network settings. My hm. is there an LCD on the printer? if so, you might be able to manually configure that part yourself locally (that is, local to the printer). make sure that the IP address is free to be assigned and that it is within the realm of those used on your network (IP, subnet mask, etc). CN>machine's network card is there (eth0) and I can ping that. Thus there CN>is a way out and onto the network. All the connected items satisfy the CN>3Com hub and the appropriate indicator lights show a good connection. okay... that takes care of my next question before i even ask it. CN>I was of the belief that the HP printer may have a "static" IP in its CN>hardware so I tried pinging that. No luck. Nor any luck for trying to CN>just assign an IP to it, though I have to admit that I may have done CN>that improperly through ignorance. there is a factory default, but it's not likely that you could access it from any machine unless you change your IP address on the host... i've seen that on WinDOZE: HP Jet Direct couldn't see new printers unless i changed my Win* box to that IP subnet first. once i went in and made changes (including changing the printer's IP address!), i could put the settings back, and i'd be in business. CN>Each time I installed Mandrake I made sure that the hub and printer were CN>on in the hopes that it might be automatically detected in the setup. not likely. the printer doesn't need to say much about its presence, so.... CN>I figured that my general difficulties in overall printing might be part CN>of the issue so I am trying to add to the network an old PentiumI using CN>another 3Com card. I heard that connections are easier if you keep the CN>connections all in the same family. That card is there as eth0 on that CN>machine as well and I can ping the card from its machine. familiarity is the main reason. it doesn't really matter who the manufacturers are, so long as you know what you're dealing with. CN>Part of the issue is trying to figure out how to set the settings in both CN>of the machines such that they can find one another. I was originally CN>thinking that this was a peer to peer relationship and that I needed to CN>set the IP's on each of the machines and then try to have one ping the CN>other. The Mandrake Config programs are not doing this automatically for CN>me so I tried messing around in the terminal. there are a lot of things that don't get set automagically, but that's okay. that's what we're here for, right? ;) Bill Smith Fall River, MA
On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Ben Dow wrote: BD>Ok... I'll start off by saying I'm not all that familiar with Mandrake, BD>and I haven't fooled around much with printing, so I'll skip that part. so will i, for pretty-much the same reasons... 8\ BD>But as for the network, I'm kind of confused about what's going on there. BD>You're trying to connect to another machine on the same network (I assume BD>you've got them wired right, with a hub or crossover cable), right? Does BD>the network card show up as detected in the kernel start-up messages? Is BD>the interface configured correctly? Can you ping another machine? Am I BD>making any sense here? the first thing i would look for here is a link indicator. when the two machines are "supposed" to be networked (by connecting them directly together via cross-over cable or by plugging them both into a common hub of some sort with straigh-through cables), the interface cards (and the hub, if you're using one) should have some sort of LED or light that shows that there is a connection. if that does not happen, then the rest of the effort is pretty futile... if there IS a link light, the next trick is to make sure that both systems are on the same network, but with different network addresses. (don't think for a second that this should be obvious. i've seen worse.) when you're this far, THEN see if you can ping the other system from each box.... for that matter, try pinging localhost, too. if a system can't ping localhost, then it's got Bigger Issues... 8( don't worry about SAMBA unless you're trying to make the Linux boxen available to a WinDOZE box. BD>Also, how is your internet connection set up (ie dial-up, etc), and how BD>are you trying to connect to them? (what commands do you run) It sounds BD>like pppd isn't actually connecting to the other side, but it's hard to be BD>sure. if you're looking at a local LAN, then this is a moot point. BD>> I have yet to unpack how one goes about fixing that. BD>> Most recent challenge was to get a network connection established between BD>> two machines on 3Com cards on a 3Com box. if i remember right, 3Com should be supported. i can't say that it is out-of-the-box, since i don't know Mandrake. Red Hat may require recompiling the kernel for 3Com support. BD>> Any thoughts, or maybe even just a weak hearted consoling word or two. you're all-right. really. ;) as long as we learn from our mistakes, we're all-set. i've made more than my share (sometimes more than once), and i'll make more... <sigh> BD>> My deepest and sincerest thanks to the learned who had to endure hear a BD>> young fool trying to find his feet. anyone that can survive me talking too much will find your message a cake-walk. <g> good luck... Bill Smith Fall River, MA
participants (3)
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Ben Dow -
Colin Novick -
William Smith